Dark Infestation, still not what it should be - My Solution

[Moonspark]

<DIV>Was in a raid the other day killing a raid mob which requires adds to be mezzed.  I cast dark infestation on the main target, which was very far from the mezzed mobs, and the broodlings ran straight for the mezzed mobs twice in a row and broke them instead of going to the mob they should have spawned on.  Not only that, but the dot ends when the broodlings spawn.  Why not just give us swarm pets instead of the dot, I haven't gone more than a few seconds without broodlings triggering, it completely defeats the purpose of a dot.  I can't believe how many "fixes" have been tested on this spell without one of them being accepted widely by the warlock community.  This has the potential to be one of our coolest spells, but it's constantly being messed up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about this, when you cast Dark Infestation it puts 2 effects on the mob, one is a dot and one is the broodling proc.  If the broodlings proc, the broodling proc disappears but the dot stays.  Also, could we have the broodlings first run to the mob that they're cast on?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Moonspark on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:00 AM</span>

[Araxes]

Vs. five mobs in a close area each broodling ticks between 100 - 300 (at level 70 in general) ... that's 1500 per tick on the low end.The danger in using the spell is the risk you take in attracting the attention of other mobs -- mezzed mobs or mobs outside the encounter.I haven't noticed whether they run to mobs other than the one originally cast on ... but I think the idea is that they are sort of unstable entitites -- like summoning little chaotic demons really -- so that kind of makes sense that they might not always go right where you want them to go.That's how the spell is balanced. If they removed that danger aspect -- they wouldn't do so without also nerfing the overall spell damage.Personally -- I like the spell just the way it is now.  If there is a coercer or illusionist actively mezzing I generally won't cast this spell -- because it's PBAoE just like Chaostorm or Rift once the broodlings pop.<font size="1">I do think they need to change the icon to be a blue background instead of a red ... to account for the broodlings being PBAoE.</font><div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>If you hadn't noticed, they already did nerf the spells damage.  They nerfed the amount of damage the broodlings do and they also nerfed the dot by making it cancel when the broodlings spawn.  The chaotic nature originally only meant that they out of encounter AE'd, which they still do.  Why add a "new" element of danger AND decrease the damage?  Sorry but while your theory isn't far fetched, it is invalid, because they already did nerf the damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: Your tiny text threw me off, the dot should be red background still, but the broodlings when they spawn should have a blue background instead of the green they currently have.  Good point.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Moonspark on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:36 AM</span>

[Fat T]

I like them the way they are.  Just like any PBAoE you need to be wary of your surroundings when you cast it.

[Dabbie]

I dislike DI as it is now. Most cases I feel like it's more trouble than it's worth. I too have had a random broodling beeline for a far away mezzed mob. It's now a swarm pet spell instead of a nice dot, so it's worthless on raids except for trash mobs. Yes, the broodlings do nice damage when they're up, but it's a pain sometimes to proc them and they die so easily... What used to be a very nice damage dot (ticking for 500) is now a swarm pet which dies on the first sign of Aoe, leaving the spell doing no damage for the next 45 seconds. The spell has already had it's damage nerfed, why can't the dot portion stick on the mob when broodlings spawn? Cast Lvl 70 Warlock Blackburrow <div></div>

[Tanatus]

I like new version of DI a lot more then old one.... Nowdays on any group encounter specially multigroup I starting attack with it. This spell decently stacks with Rift and Chaostorm

[Moonspark]

I guess people don't mind a broken or ill thought out spell, oh well I tried.

[Araxes]

I was very aware of the nerfed damage -- I meant that if they did what you suggest it would get nerfed further to maintain balance.  The reason it was nerfed once was to account for the fact that they wouldn't be constantly de-spawning / re-spawning and that they would track targets.And from what I've seen so far the spell in general is far more effective than they ever were before - DoT or not.<div></div>

[Fat T]

<P>^^^ /agree</P> <P> </P> <P>It does more damage in the situations it's meant to now instead of constantly spawning at your feet and not doing any damage to mobs.  Now they spawn once and do their job until their 24 seconds are up.</P> <P>It's not broken nor ill thought up, it's a very unique and usefull spell.  If you want dumfire pets roll a summoner.</P><p>Message Edited by Fat T on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:22 AM</span>

[Xede]

<P>i PM'd lockeye about the DI dot portion ending when the broodlings spawned but no response :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P>Also alot of our spells are used in certain situations. Reason I don't use DI if we have to mez a mob. Remember a good warlock knows when to use certain spells and when not to and still push out the dps :smileywink:</P>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>Funny, the dot is our second highest damage per second of casting spell on single target mobs.  Never actually having the dot up is "ill-thought out" in my opinion.  And Xede, we really don't have many situational spells.  Doesn't take a good warlock to know not to cast mez breaking spells on encounters that require mez.  I personally just got back, I guess I shouldn't have put it past them to make my broodlings go straight for the wrong mobs /shrug</DIV>

[Victicu]

    Broodling have always broken mez, even in the spell description it says the broodlings will attack whatever they want and to be careful when using them.  I dont see why you are complaing about that.<div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>I'm not complaining about their ability to break mez.  They never before ran to the wrong mob, it was always the mob you cast it on.  There was no need to change that.</DIV>

[Fat T]

Just because you don't like how a spell works doesn't make it "ill thought out".

[Araxes]

Here's how I see it ... *whether or not* it's a bug that the DoT cancels after the broodlings spawn -- look at this ...<img src="http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2329/broodlings6pi.gif">And that's taking into account that they weren't spawned about 1/3 of the time becuase of Xhaviz AoE.<div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>"Just because you don't like how a spell works doesn't make it "ill thought out". "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You cast the dot and the broodlings have a certain percent chance to proc on the mob, cancelling the dot.  The broodlings move straight to the mob, with the ability to cast and run.  They cast an out of encounter area of effect spell.   The broodlings will randomly target a mob and they will all move to that mob.  If that mob dies, they will move onto the next in the encounter.  Currently if there is nothing up in the encounter they run back to you and stand there til they die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Previously, you targeted a mob and cast a dot.  The broodlings had a percent chance to spawn and the dot did not cancel, the broodlings could respawn multiple times until the dot was worn off.  This made it so that the broodlings could be up until the dot refreshed, unlike currently where the dot fades away and the broodlings never spawn near the end of it so that they will be up the whole fight like was previously possible.  The broodlings previously did more damage, and ran to only 1 mob (the mob you had targeted.)  After that mob was dead, they would die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pro's of the new change: They have a higher percent chance to proc, when a mob dies they move onto the next mob instead of dying.  This is good for group play (doesn't really make much of a difference in a raid setting versus anything that takes more than a few seconds to kill).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Con's: The broodlings do less damage.  The proc cancels the dot.  The broodlings are *more* chaotic than they used to be.  The broodlings actually do less damage over time than they used to, because it used to be possible to keep them up the whole fight if you knew what you were doing (this is against tougher mobs, of course, nothing that will die within a few seconds.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a raiding warlock, not a grouping/leveling/questing warlock.  My views are strictly from the perspective of a raiding warlock.  This is a great group spell change, but as a raid warlock I am disappointed.  Broodlings will often die quickly to an AE in a raid anyway, it was nice to have the amazing dot itself making the spell worthwhile.  I would be happy with just the dot staying and the broodlings doing whatever they wanted to do while they were up, but I do not see the current spell in a raid situation as win/win/win.  I see it as a spell that instantly cancels its greatness out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Xede]

the reason they never ran to the wrong mob before is because they always ran straight to the mob you casted DI on then when that mob died they died too....now that they have changed them they tend to have a mind of their own.

[Fat T]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moonspark wrote:<BR> <DIV>"Just because you don't like how a spell works doesn't make it "ill thought out". "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You cast the dot and the broodlings have a certain percent chance to proc on the mob, cancelling the dot.  The broodlings move straight to the mob, with the ability to cast and run.  They cast an out of encounter area of effect spell.   The broodlings will randomly target a mob and they will all move to that mob.  If that mob dies, they will move onto the next in the encounter.  Currently if there is nothing up in the encounter they run back to you and stand there til they die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Previously, you targeted a mob and cast a dot.  The broodlings had a percent chance to spawn and the dot did not cancel, the broodlings could respawn multiple times until the dot was worn off.  This made it so that the broodlings could be up until the dot refreshed, unlike currently where the dot fades away and the broodlings never spawn near the end of it so that they will be up the whole fight like was previously possible.  The broodlings previously did more damage, and ran to only 1 mob (the mob you had targeted.)  After that mob was dead, they would die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pro's of the new change: They have a higher percent chance to proc, when a mob dies they move onto the next mob instead of dying.  This is good for group play (doesn't really make much of a difference in a raid setting versus anything that takes more than a few seconds to kill).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Con's: The broodlings do less damage.  The proc cancels the dot.  The broodlings are *more* chaotic than they used to be.  The broodlings actually do less damage over time than they used to, because it used to be possible to keep them up the whole fight if you knew what you were doing (this is against tougher mobs, of course, nothing that will die within a few seconds.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a raiding warlock, not a grouping/leveling/questing warlock.  My views are strictly from the perspective of a raiding warlock.  This is a great group spell change, but as a raid warlock I am disappointed.  Broodlings will often die quickly to an AE in a raid anyway, it was nice to have the amazing dot itself making the spell worthwhile.  I would be happy with just the dot staying and the broodlings doing whatever they wanted to do while they were up, but I do not see the current spell in a raid situation as win/win/win.  I see it as a spell that instantly cancels its greatness out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm pretty sure everyone that's posted in this thread is a raiding warlock.  We just have differing opinions on it's usefullness.</P> <P>IMO it doesn't work fast enough to be usefull in groups.  Even if my group pulls whole rooms at a time sometimes they still don't proc by the time the mob I cast on is dead.</P> <P>I think it's more of a trash clearing spell.  It's good through the whole encounter and sure it does do slightly less damage before because the broodlings don't do the damage they used to and you don't have a dot after the broodlings but atleast now you can assist ur MT the whole encounter.  :smileytongue:</P> <P>It's still usefull and imo more usefull than before against mobs w/ AE.  The Broodlings still died to AE's pre-LU24 so the only damage you get out of the spell is the dot.  Now they run and cast simultaneously so I usually time my DI right after an AE so they can spawn and get atleast 2 attacks on the mob before the next AE.  If they spawn and get 2 attacks on the mob it's doing more dps than the pre-LU24 DI because if you got the [Removed for Content] broodlings to spawn they would just sit there and go in a spawn loop and not do any damage.  Atleast this way if you time your spell correctly you can pull more damage than previously.</P>

[Araxes]

Ok just to play both sides of the field here let me step into a developer's shoes.Firstly to re-iterate -- the DoT was removed upon spawn because it was the reason the broodlings spawned on top of themselves - as far as I could ever tell.Now ... IF I thought there was a problem (and let me make it very clear I don't) here are the 2 routes I would constructively suggest :1.)  Split the DoT component into its own spell line.PROBLEM : Wizards have no such comparable spell line - and SOE has yet to adopt a truly unique stance in regard to classes differentiating from their counterparts in any real great way.  I.e. we still have the you-are-the-yin-I-am-your-yang mentality on a fundamental level.  One class gets a new spell line the other class gets a new one ...2.)  Increase the power cost of the Broodlings - make them their own PBAoE spell line -- 100% proc rate.  Simultaneously increase the DPS output of one of our existing DoT lines ... Scourge of Shadows or War Pyre.  We gain no new spell lines but we gain back the lost DoT component of pre LU24 DI.PROBLEM : Takes care of the problem presented in Case 1 BUT ... would overpower us as a class.  Wihtout getting a further nerf to the broodling DPS it would need to take such a huge power increase to balance that the rest of your spell repertoire would suffer as a result.  There is no other way to account for the necessary 100% proc that all swarm pets have (unless you really want to cause chaos and make them flat out get resisted more often ... which would just [Removed for Content] everyone off - either way the end result is the same : a nerf).  Further thoughts?<div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>I don't think a fix would require that much work, just make it a spell that casts 2 effects on the creature, one is a 1 time proc for the broodlings and the other is the dot component of the spell.  That way they are independent of each other and we still keep the original benefits of the spell in tact.  The decreased damage of the broodlings and the increased chaotic nature pays for the efficiency of the broodlings.  I think taking the DoT away is going too far.  No other classes would be offended by a change like this, most would probably be completely oblivious to it or not even care.  This spell has an amazing dot and it's a shame that it's wasted before it ever gets to the second tick.</DIV>

[Inebriation]

For the record, for those who think they specifically nerfed our Dark Bloodlings' damage, you are wrong. ALL dumbfire pets' damage has been slightly reduced. But I am not complaining at all as they did way more good to this spell than bad. <div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Actually as far as I know, they recieved two damage nerfs.  One in the form of stats and one in the form of lessening the actual damage they do directly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>From the notes:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Combat ***<BR><BR></FONT>"General changes:</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Swarm and Dumbfire pets had their inherent stat bonuses removed from contributing to their damage. This amounts to a 17.5% reduction in their overall damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Warlock: Dark Infestation: Increased duration to 24 seconds. Increased proc chance of broodlings from 25% to 35%. Broodlings can only trigger once per Dark Infestation cast. Broodlings now cast on the run--they shouldn't stay at their owner's feet immediately after they are cast. Reduced Broodling area effect damage. Broodlings continue to target the rest of the encounter after the primary target dies. Increased reuse timer to 45s."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Pre live update I personally had no problem keeping them up a whole fight, or most of it, even if a mob AE'd. And not just up, but up near the mobs.  They were up for more of the longer fights, there was a dot, they did more damage.  I guess it just boggles me why you all think it wasn't a sugar-coated nerf.</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Moonspark on <span class=date_text>06-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:23 AM</span>

[Araxes]

Well they could just make the broodlings like little tanks and that would solve everyone's issues now wouldn't it!?   <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />j/k<div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>To be honest, I just want the dot back.  Seems like such a huge waste of a great dot to me.  I don't think I've ever got to 3 ticks of the dot before it cancels and the broodlings spawn.</DIV>