WARLOCK'S GRAB YOUR ANKLES.... here comes another mass-nerf from the Devs!

[Daelomd]

<div></div>So several threads have been started about the up and coming LU 24...What makes me sad is all the freakin fan boys trying to make the best of another pounding on Warlocks by the devs, sticking their noses right up in there so they are as brown as possible.<b>Devastion Line</b> - First the multiple nerfs to the stun duraiton, now the complete removal NOT to mention they ninja'd the target limit when KOS came out and never had the balls to own up to it... (and this being the only encoutner AE in the game with a limit)<b>Gas Cloud  Line </b>- Stun has been nerfed down to 1.5 seconds, ARE YOU KIDDING ME???  How many spells are we able to toss in 1.5secs?  Jack and Crap come to mind...<b>Interfernce Line </b>- Take special notice that Wizards are getting an "aggro reducation" and Warlocks are getting a "SLIGHT encounter agro reduction"  nevermind the fact that the vast flipping majority of taunts in the game are single target with lower recast times..<b>Rift</b> - The moajority of end game group encoutners have 3 mobs in them... so lets compare this to the wizards 13-14K x3 to our 3-4k x3, yet another example of devs not realizing how the games content severely limits AE effectiveness.  Well now the knock down effect is being made worthless as well....<b>Dark Siphoning Line </b>- 3s reduction... are you kidding me?  Its still worthless!!!  A summoner can summon hearts/shards to 24 people in the raid, which they can use three times each... and they NEVER have to stop to cast this during a fight.  So lets do the math 24x3x... 6x... err nevermind the number is over 10 so I doubt the Devs could comprehend it anyhow.So Lets talk about Wizard Spells that arn't getting touched: <b>Nimbus Aurora - </b>Wizards get a MEZ which isn't being touched in the control LU.<b>Ice Nova </b>- The stun component of this spell is not being removed!!!This isn't to mention the vast difference in group buffs, debuffs, etc...etc.....etcThe fact is the last time a Dev even posted in the Warlock forums was Blackguard telling us our Dark Broodlings had been fixed, and even then he was wrong they went on being broken for a few more months.  I honestly don't think there is even a Dev assigned to work on Warlocks as there are Devs assigned to work on other classes, and if there is the poor [Removed for Content] is either stuck with us AND the class he /she wants to be working on, or he/she is completely lazy and can't be bothered to read the forums of the class he/she is working on to get an idea of how BADLY they are messing up.  Should I mention the complete lack of a Warlock Class hat as dropped loot?  Just  another small example... Or that we can't even get posts stickied in our forums.... Or... Nevermind....So what should we do?  We should complain, it works for the other classes.... they Devs have shown a clear history that complaining is the only way to get noticed and the more aggresive and the more offense the complaints the more attention a class gets, just look at Enchanters and all the complaining they did about being worthless on raids (which any Enchanter who couldn't figure out what to do on a raid cause they couldn't stun/mez mobs needs to go play WoW because they are obviously not very bright.)  What else should we do?  We should work to educate or shut the fan boys up who want to come in here and play like everything is alright... that the constant nerfs are fine and good for us, that want to pretend like we are getting any attention as a class.....Now I realize this post is a "tad" hostile, buts thats the point.  Apparently the Devs can't be bothered to respond to any post that resembles civility.... so maybe a post calling them out for the complete inattention to Warlocks will work.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Daelomdel on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:44 AM</span>

[massem]

So you are proposing that wizards should be nerfed as well ?  The root nerf we are getting is major enough already without you warlocks calling for more <span>:smileymad:</span>

[Max122]

Um yeah and we getting the same nerfs to our roots as well.  But yes having stun on deva/apoc is nice and helps like it does on your ice comet if they nerf one they should nerf the other.

[Soul_Dreamer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR>So you are proposing that wizards should be nerfed as well ?  The root nerf we are getting <BR>is major enough already without you warlocks calling for more <SPAN>:smileymad:</SPAN><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Read it again please, at no point in the OP's statement does it say that wizards should be nerfed because we have been. All that is happening is a comparison between Wizard and Warlock spells that are meant to be our equals and which have been nerfed and which haven't. FYI our roots have been hit just as hard as wizards roots.<BR><BR>Warlocks get shafted harder than any other class in terms of nerfs and we are in no way over powered. SOE have made a couple of home runs with the Nerf bat at our expense since LU13, half of them they have never owned up to or where in the update notes we just found them when we played. I dread every LU nowadays and search for the words saying "Warlock Changes". Our stuns made up for our lack of utility compared to other high end DPS classes and could often save a group by keeping the mobs stunned for 5 or 6 seconds so the healers could catch up.<BR><BR>I fully agree with the OP, the Devs need to give us an answer to all the large questions that have been asked on the boards in the past months or they at least needs to tell us what the plan is for us. No reply from Devs in months is very bad and just shows how ignored we are, when we post about these issues in the combat forums or others they either get closed or moved and no one looks at them still.<BR><BR><BR>Comparison...(Not a comparison calling for nerfs or anything, just to show how much attention other classes get where we get none)</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=18819" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=18819</A><BR><BR>Recently in the SK forums there was a complaint about a couple of items that drop in PoA called Blade of the Deathknight and shield of the Deathknight. A Dev responded and the items had their names changed due to them having very cool names for what where not very good items. The Dev said that he would change the names so that they could be saved for future better items that maybe even SK only.<BR><BR>We are not asking for that much attention to our boards but one reply every so often surley wouldn't be too much to ask for...<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Soul_Dreamer on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:08 AM</span>

[vorek]

<P><FONT size=7>WWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=7></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>Someone lock this monkey-crap crybaby thread.</FONT></P>

[massem]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Max122 wrote:<BR> Um yeah and we getting the same nerfs to our roots as well.  But yes having stun on deva/apoc is nice and helps like it does on your ice comet if they nerf one they should nerf the other.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hehe so next thing, Warlock AoE should be nerfed so that it is not better than Wizards. And then wizards DD nerfed so its not better than warlocks. Then Conjurer pets hould be nerfed again because they are still better than Sorcerer pets, and then the now nerfed Warlock/Wizard DPS should be nerfed more since its still better than Summoners .... Lol - this sort of reasoning just leads to watered down classes.  :smileymad:</P> <P>Feel free to point out unfair nerfs, which I believe the stun removal from your AoEs is but don't point fingers on other classes pls. </P>

[Senen74]

Problem here for all classes is the Devs decided a blanket nerf on all control abilities was the quick fix without actualy looking at each classes specific needs IE Sorcerers needing there stuns to keep mobs off them while rooting.  I'm going out on a big limb here and hoping that the Devs will see that the majority of the community is upset about these upcoming changes and reverse or revise them in a manner consistant with each classes needs.  If the summoner/ranger communities can make enough noise months back about the changes they had comming to push them back and have them reworked.  I would surely think the masses of several classes vs enchanters would bare the same results problem is most of the SoE staff has been busy at E3 and not attending to real game issues as of late.

[Purita]

Why the hell do people get mad they are getting nerfed and then try to pass the nerfing off onto other classes?  SoE needs to find a way to balance the game without [Removed for Content] everyone off every patch imo.  Patchs are usually something I look forward too on Daoc and Wow, why is it I want to cry whenever SoE schedules one?  Somethings broke there and it isn't a class balance issue ...

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Senen74 wrote:<BR> Problem here for all classes is the Devs decided a blanket nerf on all control abilities was the quick fix without actualy looking at each classes specific needs IE Sorcerers needing there stuns to keep mobs off them while rooting.  I'm going out on a big limb here and hoping that the Devs will see that the majority of the community is upset about these upcoming changes and reverse or revise them in a manner consistant with each classes needs.  If the summoner/ranger communities can make enough noise months back about the changes they had comming to push them back and have them reworked.  I would surely think the masses of several classes vs enchanters would bare the same results problem is most of the SoE staff has been busy at E3 and not attending to real game issues as of late.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If the nerfing of control abilities is subjectively applied based upon "class need", perception for many will be that SOE "hates" class A or favors class B. Particularly for non-members of the less-nerfed classes. I suspect this would be worse than the blanket nerf, as at least the blanket nerf is mostly consistent. Pretty much every class with control abilities is just as attached to their abilities and can justify their need for them, and would be just as outraged to see some other class less nerfed than them. I suspect it would be a disaster.</P> <P>This way, no one is really happy, but most people are equally unhappy. It is about the only way they COULD do such a nerf, in my opinion.</P> <P>Still sucks for several of my classes, of course.</P>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vorek wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=7>WWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=7></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>Someone lock this monkey-crap crybaby thread.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL, someone other than players has to actually read this board for that to happen <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Oh well I just bought TES IV Oblivion. That should keep me busy for a couple of months while everything is being changed, adjusted and then changed again. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[D-lirium]

I really hope they up the deagro on interference, because the current value is pathetic. But <b>rather</b> I would see it being made a spell that <u>CHANGES our position in agro by a certain amount of places, like 3-5</u><div></div>

[Tanit]

<blockquote><hr>Daelomdel wrote:So Lets talk about Wizard Spells that arn't getting touched: <b>Nimbus Aurora - </b>Wizards get a MEZ which isn't being touched in the control LU.<font color="#ffff66">I couldn't care less if it gets nerfed or not, havent used it in months.</font><b>Ice Nova </b>- The stun component of this spell is not being removed!!!<font color="#ffff66">Wizards dont have other spells with a stun component (besides the stun we both share), soe cant nerf stuns that don't exist...What they could've done is removing one of your other stuns and keeping the ones on apocalypse (if they had to remove one).</font>This isn't to mention the vast difference in group buffs, debuffs, etc...etc.....etc<font color="#ffff66">You've never actually looked at a wizard spell list, have you?</font><font color="#ffff66"></font><div></div><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[Niun01]

Every day someone compares us to wizards... conjurors.. their mom's best friend... come on already.  It's getting rediculous.  State the problem, discuss a fix and leave the others out of it.  The Devs aren't going  to care about the whinning of what we don't get that others do.  If you want wizard/conjuror/moms best friend skills and spells then reroll one of those.We have problems yes... game breaking no...Be a Warlock...<div></div>

[Talonis]

<div></div>10 LU's since LU13 and we are served more nerfs. These threads rarely go far because they eventually always turn into a finger pointing session of where the nerf bat should swing next. It is unfortunate, because there are always 1 or 2 posts with good info and suggestions that get lost in the ensuing flamefest. It is a fact of gaming that some people honestly DO know how to play their class better than others of the same class. Call it skill, talent, whatever.  People have their own way of playing the class. Nobody would agree on a set way. Some nerfs may completely hose one players' playstyle, while others give it a /shrug and a /yawn.So here we have another lineup of changes (read: nerfs) and the usual stuff starts up. The Doom and Gloomers come out and scream that the sky is falling and the class is unplayable. The Finger Pointers call for nerfs to other classes so everyone suffers equally. Throw in the folks that claim you are all noobs, we are still Gods among men, stop the crying. While each of these folks may have both valid and silly points, none are 100% correct and none are 100% wrong.These threads descend to the pit of flamefests because of one thing. Total and complete lack of communication from the Development Team on why these changes are necessary. I don't typically read many other class forums, but this one has, historically speaking, received practically zero response to issues raised by players. In the absence of that communication, players choose to hand out their interpretation of the reasons and the flames start to rise.Since no member of the Development Team has had the temerity to come forward and state the reasons for these changes, we are left to draw our own conclusions.Not that anyone of importance will see this list, I have a few questions (some already asked) for the Development Team:Is this set of changes aimed at fixing the long-broken chanters?Where IS the Warlock-only hat besides Relic and Hoo-loh? (Grand Dracomancer does not count, it's Socerer only, the lone item in T7 that IS Sorcerer only)Will we ever get effective AE aggro control? (beyond NOT casting and/or stuffing a troub and pally in our pocket)Will the nearly useless hp/pwr debuff, AE mana drain, and teleport spells ever be looked at to be made somewhat useful?Is it REMOTELY possible to address any of these issues for warlocks without a swing of the nerf bat to other classes?Oh well, it's worth a shot. I do like being a Warlock. I know many of you do also. Cheers.<div></div>

[Xede]

<P>1) how many people actually use the stun effect on Apocalypse as a stun? I know i sure as hell dont. Doesn't even effect epics anyways. So to me I will see 0 difference in the spell.</P> <P>2) Nebula line.....the spell owned pre-combat revamps when it could stun epics...now that it cannot I use the spell as purely damage. So once again not effected by it.</P> <P>3) Vulian Interference....haven't seen the stats on the deaggro....gonna log into test to check out how much it does. If its anything less than 700 it needs to be bumped up.</P> <P> </P> <P>too lazy to read the rest of the post or what anyone else had to say....dont really care for that matter. These are my opinions and how they do not really effect me at all.</P>

[Sythre]

<P>The nerf to the duration of the stun in the Nebula Line is what has me the most concerned over these updates.  I use that spell every fight and I feel it is an essential part of our spell list.  I can't count the times it has saved me soloing or in granting that extra time for my group to get back in the fight.  And that was all due to the stun effect.</P> <P>The rest of the changes that affect our abilities don't really bother me that much.</P> <P>I have always felt like warlocks got the short end of the sorceror stick with Rift vs. Ice Comet and Evac vs. well...uhm...something, but that's not in anyway meant to be a "call to nerf" for the wizard.  Bottom line is that it was something I just chalked up to a flaw in the class design on the part of the dev team and I have worked within what was available.</P> <P>I have been happy with my warlock so far  (Been playing him since LU13).  I hope they leave this one spell line alone in what goes live.  Otherwise, I think that the way I play the class will be less viable and fun.</P> <P>just my two cents......</P>

[Astery]

just had enough of constant messing around with my characters, i'm too old for this. perhaps youngsters dont mind much.ever evolving/changing game should not mean changes to fundamental things, you already forced me to relearn warlock after LU13, now again... /byebye<p>Message Edited by Astery on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:45 AM</span>

[Daelomd]

Let me be frank - if you play a Wizard and you are in here complaing about posts Warlocks have made please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!! And go troll your own forums...The simple fact is this is the Warlock forums and the only place we have to voice our concerns.... what I find extremely interesting is all the Wizards that want to say "Stop comparing the two classes" yet here they are reading the Warlock forums and trolling.  Wizards and Warlocks are suppose to be similiar like ALL the other "twin classes" in the game.  There is suppose to be give and take and right now there is only Warlocks getting constantly pounded by the Devs.  So like I said before if you don't play a Warlock [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and go troll your own forums.The intention of my post was to call attention to the fact that Warlocks are getting pounding in the rear again, after the months of stealth nerfs, after months of Devs ignoring these forums, that eventually we as Warlocks are going to have to say [Removed for Content] (what the heck) are you DEVS doing!?!So....<font color="#cc0000"><i><font size="5"><b>[Removed for Content] (what the heck) ARE YOU DEVS DOING!?!?!</b></font></i></font><div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<P>My biggest gripe is that warlocks were not even mentioned in the recent annoucement by Lockeye. He is not stupid, he specifically mentioned summoners when referring to both conjurors and necromancers and only wizards when referring to sorcerers. This is even worse than the removal of the stun from apoc as it feels they are not even putting warlocks in the picture. Warlocks are feeling left out in the cold from the recent announcement.</P> <P>Btw Xede, the removal of the stun from apoc and the reduction from nebula does not affect me much either as I probably raid 99% of the time (the other 1% I am farming nil crystals >_&lt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But not everyone in this game raids and the removal of the stun from 3s to 0 and on nebula from 4s to 1.5s is a huge blow for soloers and groupers. The usefulness of that 5.5s stun difference is tenfold from buying enough time to finish the mob/allow tank to regain aggro to saving your life.</P>

[Xarov]

<DIV>Xede not everyone here RAIDS... im a raider and i solo alot as well, so hell yeah im [Removed for Content] about the stun on apocalypse being nerfed and the stun on nebula being cut by 75%... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No offense to the wizard class but it is CLEAR from Lockeye's statement that there is a clear bias between the warlock and wizard class ( again i say Lockeye is not stupid , if he meant to say sorceror in his statement instead of Wizard the he would of say Sorceror instead of saying Wizard 4-5 times while saying Summoner 4-5 times as well ) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also even thou alot of wizard stuns got halved in duration NONE of your stuns were removed and your mez as left intact ( i dont care if they dont "work etc " its the principle that they didnt remove yours while they did our's that shows clear bias , because believe me someone took the time to look over our spells since they did some major changes to them as like the recast on nebula being shortened for the 75% stun reduction and the complete removal of the stun componant from apocalypse as well at the nerf ot the knockdown effect of rift &nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so lets keep tabs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard = halved stuns, worse end of group root..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks = 2 spells had stun componant COMPLETLY removed, another one was reduced by 75%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wow thats fair indeed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WTG SoE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps im not asking for wizards to be nerfed down somemore just trying to point out SoE playing favorites on classes </DIV>

[massem]

<div></div><div></div>OK, NERF warlock AoE pls. (because it is better than Wizard AoE). Edit: If you see my post higher up you will relize this is a joke <span>:smileyhappy: </span><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by masseman on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:47 AM</span>

[Tanit]

<blockquote><hr>Xarovix wrote:<div>Also even thou alot of wizard stuns got halved in duration <font color="#ffff99">NONE of your stuns were removed</font> and your mez as left intact ( i dont care if they dont "work etc " its the principle that they didnt remove yours while they did our's that shows clear bias , because believe me someone took the time to look over our spells since they did some major changes to them as like the recast on nebula being shortened for the 75% stun reduction and the complete removal of the stun componant from apocalypse as well at the nerf ot the knockdown effect of rift &nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </div> <div><font color="#ffff66">I'm sure if wizards had stuns/interrupt on every ae like you have they would've been removed as well, but we don't. Now both classes have the same number of stun components on spells. Yours ae with a short recast and ours single target with a long recast.</font>so lets keep tabs...</div> <div> </div> <div>Wizard = halved stuns, worse end of group root..</div> <div> </div> <div>Warlocks = 2 spells had stun componant COMPLETLY removed, another one was reduced by 75%Wizard</div> <div> </div> <div>wow thats fair indeed</div><font color="#ffff66">Equal ammount of stuns sounds fair to me.</font><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[enrique_to]

Does someone counts on Devastation stuns? I do. And a lot of times. It's give you a precious moments. And we'll lose them forever.Does someone uses Nebula stuns? I do. And a lot of times. Is a nice way to start combat if tanks take a great damage amount at the beginning of the combat. All Stuns are usefull. All stuns are great. We are going to be badly nerfed.I agree. Nerf wizzys is not a good solution. But PLEASE Wizzards. Do not tell us we had one stun more than you. It's stupid and you Know it. Warlocks needs a serious Fix. And needs a fix that do not nerf all the other classes. But of course Devs won't do nothing, cause:1 . - They do not read this forum2 . - They do not mind. We have been talking a lot about warlocks problems. Whenever we tryed to post a warlock specific problem on another forums it was quickly moved to this forum. that's rigth. But... Why Lockeye did not write <b>warlocks </b>on they post? It was a mistake or really we do not mind at all? <div></div>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tanith_ wrote:<blockquote><hr>Xarovix wrote:<div>Also even thou alot of wizard stuns got halved in duration <font color="#ffff99">NONE of your stuns were removed</font> and your mez as left intact ( i dont care if they dont "work etc " its the principle that they didnt remove yours while they did our's that shows clear bias , because believe me someone took the time to look over our spells since they did some major changes to them as like the recast on nebula being shortened for the 75% stun reduction and the complete removal of the stun componant from apocalypse as well at the nerf ot the knockdown effect of rift &nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </div> <div><font color="#ffff66">I'm sure if wizards had stuns/interrupt on every ae like you have they would've been removed as well, but we don't. Now both classes have the same number of stun components on spells. Yours ae with a short recast and ours single target with a long recast.</font>so lets keep tabs...</div> <div> </div> <div>Wizard = halved stuns, worse end of group root..</div> <div> </div> <div>Warlocks = 2 spells had stun componant COMPLETLY removed, another one was reduced by 75%Wizard</div> <div> </div> <div>wow thats fair indeed</div><font color="#ffff66">Equal ammount of stuns sounds fair to me.</font><hr></blockquote><div></div>Most encounters in EQ2 even RAIDS encounters are Single target. Most of them!!!You are single target specialist. We are AE encounter specialist. So on most Situation you are faaar more useful than us. That's cause you argument is not valid. It's not fair. Cause both class are not balanced. Wizzards are more usefull for a group (Evac, INT and STR buff, single target speciality) that a warlock. We only have our stuns. And now they are gone. We have a lot of Useless spells like curses lines spells or Netheros Realm. Dark sinphony line spell still not being fixed (increase power regen and we'll start talking) we are hardest to tank that wizzards. I do not think nerf is a good solution. We are just asking to fix our class. That's all. Do you Know Nebula cast time? 4s We have a group stun of 4s cast time WOW WOW WOW!!!<hr></blockquote></div>

[Solan Swiftfist]

Everyone says quit comparing Warlocks and Wizards but how can one not when both started out as one class then branched out at level 20?  When I started my Warlock at release, I was hoping they would just be an evil Wizard with the same kind of spells, just poison and disease instead of fire and ice.  Doing this would have prevented the the Warlock vs Wizard crap all the time.   Since it is the way it is, I agree with the OP and think it was a great one.

[Xede]

<P>I may raid 99.99% of the time. But i do occasionally solo those heroic mobs. Do I ever cast Nebula? Nope. Do I ever cast Apocalypse? nope. Why don't I cast these spells? 1) they are AE's 2) their cast timers are too long to worry about it. I'd rather burn the mob down fast and furious than wait on cast times. Oh but what about those groups of Heroic mobs? Skeletal Grasp is your friend. It's an AE root for a reason. You do damage to a mob it can break. I think i'd choose one mob running at me than 3 coming at me at the same time.</P> <P> </P> <P>Even when i was leveling up from 50-60 and then 60-70 i did not even think of those spells as stuns. i used those as damage spells. To me i do not see this as a huge nerf to the class like most of you think. In all actuality i am glad they took the stun off of Apocalypse. it's the class defining spell that deals AE Damage over time. Our class defining abilities are not the utility of stuns...it is to do AE Damage. The stun effect to Nebula is nice...but its not the critical part of the spell i think. Why would SOE make an AE stun with 1k+ damage to all mobs?</P>

[Solan Swiftfist]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Patrix513 wrote:<BR> <P>I may raid 99.99% of the time. But i do occasionally solo those heroic mobs. Do I ever cast Nebula? Nope. Do I ever cast Apocalypse? nope. Why don't I cast these spells? 1) they are AE's 2) their cast timers are too long to worry about it. I'd rather burn the mob down fast and furious than wait on cast times. Oh but what about those groups of Heroic mobs? Skeletal Grasp is your friend. It's an AE root for a reason. You do damage to a mob it can break. I think i'd choose one mob running at me than 3 coming at me at the same time.</P> <P> </P> <P>Even when i was leveling up from 50-60 and then 60-70 i did not even think of those spells as stuns. i used those as damage spells. To me i do not see this as a huge nerf to the class like most of you think. In all actuality i am glad they took the stun off of Apocalypse. it's the class defining spell that deals AE Damage over time. Our class defining abilities are not the utility of stuns...it is to do AE Damage. The stun effect to Nebula is nice...but its not the critical part of the spell i think. Why would SOE make an AE stun with 1k+ damage to all mobs?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you never used Devestation or Apocalypse while soloing your not a very good soloer.  What else do we have to BURN down a mob.   All you have to do is pull with one of these spells, run back, on the 4th tick, turn and aoe root.  Now I have all mobs rooted and down a quarter/half health and you have them all rooted at full health.

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>Solan Swiftfist wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Patrix513 wrote: <div></div> <p>I may raid 99.99% of the time. But i do occasionally solo those heroic mobs. Do I ever cast Nebula? Nope. Do I ever cast Apocalypse? nope. Why don't I cast these spells? 1) they are AE's 2) their cast timers are too long to worry about it. I'd rather burn the mob down fast and furious than wait on cast times. Oh but what about those groups of Heroic mobs? Skeletal Grasp is your friend. It's an AE root for a reason. You do damage to a mob it can break. I think i'd choose one mob running at me than 3 coming at me at the same time.</p> <p>Even when i was leveling up from 50-60 and then 60-70 i did not even think of those spells as stuns. i used those as damage spells. To me i do not see this as a huge nerf to the class like most of you think. In all actuality i am glad they took the stun off of Apocalypse. it's the class defining spell that deals AE Damage over time. Our class defining abilities are not the utility of stuns...it is to do AE Damage. The stun effect to Nebula is nice...but its not the critical part of the spell i think. Why would SOE make an AE stun with 1k+ damage to all mobs?</p> <hr> </blockquote>If you never used Devestation or Apocalypse while soloing your not a very good soloer.  What else do we have to BURN down a mob.   All you have to do is pull with one of these spells, run back, on the 4th tick, turn and aoe root.  Now I have all mobs rooted and down a quarter/half health and you have them all rooted at full health.<hr></blockquote>He is rigth. To kill heroics mobs You did not need to cast Nebula or devastation. Devastation uses to break roots too many times (Curious Ice comet did not, may be cause it's DD an not DoT as Devastation, so Wizzards are better soloing?!?) To kill Heroics You must cast Distortion and Absolution line. That's all. You must try to do the greater damage casting the less spells posible (the less spells the less break chance, the more damage, the less spells needed to kill mobs) Devastation is a DoT so its a dangerous one, can't be employed cause it count like 4 spells ( it procs 4 times) But Devastation is our signature spell. It's stun efect when we group is really nice. Nebula when grouping (Doing instances, questing, etc.) is basic, to give healers a chance to bring tank health to green from red. And both spell are going to hell. </div>

[massem]

<blockquote><hr>enrique_tome wrote:<div><blockquote><hr></blockquote>He is rigth. To kill heroics mobs You did not need to cast Nebula or devastation. Devastation uses to break roots too many times (Curious Ice comet did not, may be cause it's DD an not DoT as Devastation, so Wizzards are better soloing?!?) <font color="#ff0000">Strange observation you make -  I</font><font color="#ff0000">ce Comets breaks root approx 75% of the time. Wizards are better soloing single targets and warlocks better at soloing groups. Since your group is true AoE and Wizard encounter only the Warlock root is also much more useful for handling adds than the Wizard root.  I believe Warlock roots also have a smaller break chance than wizard roots. </font><font color="#ff0000"></font>But Devastation is our signature spell. It's stun efect when we group is really nice. Nebula when grouping (Doing instances, questing, etc.) is basic, to give healers a chance to bring tank health to green from red. And both spell are going to hell. <font color="#ff0000">Devastation will still be doing serious DPS under the right conditions. On large groups no other class can come even close to Warlock DPS. It will hardly be worthless if the stun effect is removed, as some of you want to make us believe. </font></div><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>masseman wrote:<blockquote><hr>enrique_tome wrote:<div><blockquote><hr></blockquote>He is rigth. To kill heroics mobs You did not need to cast Nebula or devastation. Devastation uses to break roots too many times (Curious Ice comet did not, may be cause it's DD an not DoT as Devastation, so Wizzards are better soloing?!?) <font color="#ff0000">Strange observation you make -  I</font><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff9933">ce Comets breaks root approx 75% of the time.</font> Wizards are better soloing single targets and warlocks better at soloing groups. Since your group is true AoE and Wizard encounter only the Warlock root is also much more useful for handling adds than the Wizard root.  I believe Warlock roots also have a smaller break chance than wizard roots. </font></div></blockquote></blockquote>    Send a bug report. it should not be like you says. Looks like a bug.    Try to use Devastation on a rooted mob. It's really crazy. Devastation is a DoT. <b>DoT. </b>Did you employ any DoT when you try to kill any heroic mob? Did you?     Now try to undestant. Your signature spell, ice comet is DD, (best spell type to kill heroics, cause has the less chance to breaks roots) our signature spell,  Devastation is DoT ,(worst spell type to kill heroics, cause has a hi chance to breaks roots.)     I'm not asking for nerf Wizzards. I do not want that. I only want my stuns back. That's all. We are worser that Wizzards. So please do not nerf us anymore and try to fix us without nerf any other class. <b>    </b></div>

[Dajuuk]

<P>2 things. </P> <P>Enrique.   Wizards have things just about as bad as we do.   This is not a situation where the grass is any greener on the other side.  Lay off of them.</P> <P>Masseman.   Warlocks CAN NOT solo group encounters any better than wizards can.   As ironic as it is, a Warlocks soloing life is pretty much restricted to single target encounters because of the long recast time and extreme unreliability of AOE roots.   The only AoE line warlocks get that wizards don't have an equivalent of is Devestation which is a DOT and its use on a rooted group encounter will pretty much guarantee the warlocks death especially now that the stun has been removed. </P> <P>Honestly, as things stand now the wizard is slightly better soloing, the warlock has a slight edge in a single group play, and they both seem to be the same in raids.  Wizards and Warlocks do not need to be at each others throats.  </P> <P>Can't we just get along?</P> <P>Edit.</P> <P>Warlock AoE root was changed to encounter only with the same patch that changed the wizard one.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Dajuuk on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 AM</span>

[massem]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>enrique_tome wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>masseman wrote:<blockquote><hr> <div><font color="#ff0000">Strange observation you make -  I</font><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff9933">ce Comets breaks root approx 75% of the time.</font> </font></div></blockquote></blockquote>    Send a bug report. it should not be like you says. Looks like a bug. <font color="#ff0000">I think they may have coded a dependency on the amount of damage a hostile action does</font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">as well. This means that the specified X % is valid only for small amounts of damage, and the break chance increases with increased damage. So far its only a suspicions, but I believe</font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">it is the way the devs intends the spells should work. There no way the 10/20% breaking chance is</font><font color="#ff0000"> accurate. The reason it is easy to target single heroics is not that roots break seldom, but because we have a stuns and fast recast of our roots. Both these factors will be nerfed for wizards as well, so there is no need continuing pointing fingers and asking for additional wizard nerfs.</font>    Try to use Devastation on a rooted mob. It's really crazy. Devastation is a DoT. <b>DoT. </b>Did you employ any DoT when you try to kill any heroic mob? Did you? <font color="#ff0000">On groups of 3 or more i use, i usually stack 2 AE DoT and then. Our DoTs do not have stun</font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">and do much less damage per tick then the Warlocks, so this is more dangerous for</font><font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">a wizard than a warlock. Strategy is to let the DoTs tick and just reroot if more than one mob loses root. If only one comes, we nuke them down the DDs.  Nuking groups of 3 with single target would take ages, because of the recast of out main single target nukes. </font></div><hr></blockquote><div></div><p>Message Edited by masseman on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:33 AM</span>

[massem]

<blockquote><hr>Dajuuk wrote:<div></div> <div></div><p>Can't we just get along?</p><hr></blockquote> Yes - that would be fine. I believe the stuns and root nerfs will affect both Warlocks/Wizards far more than most other classes and is unfair to both of them. My hope is that most Warlocks will also understand that. <div></div>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>masseman wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dajuuk wrote:<div></div> <div></div><p>Can't we just get along?</p><hr></blockquote> Yes - that would be fine. I believe the stuns and root nerfs will affect both Warlocks/Wizards far more than most other classes and is unfair to both of them. My hope is that most Warlocks will also understand that. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree It's a really bad nerf for both classes. But at least you do not loose one Stun. That LU hits harder at Warlocks side. I reggreat cause I start thinking it was a good LU for wizzards. i did not read good enougth the root duration reduction. It's a bad LU for both classes. We'll have sereve problems killing grouped mobs. Sad thing,  that was warlocks speciality. Now wizzards could have problems soloing grouped mobs. And will solo heroics mobs worser, but  we'll  have the same problem, or even greater.  Devastation stun used to give us a precious moments. Now... nothing. Now we are even more just "killer of trash mobs" that's the warlock role on EQ2. </div>

[massem]

<blockquote><hr>enrique_tome wrote:<div> Devastation stun used to give us a precious moments. Now... nothing. Now we are even more just "killer of trash mobs" that's the warlock role on EQ2. </div><hr></blockquote>You are losing it, wizards never had it. <div></div>

[Dabbie]

Isn't surging tempest a stun every 8 seconds or something? And i concur, i don't even bother trying to solo large group mobs unless they are all double down or tripple down mobs. You simply cannot ae at all and use a group root at the same time. We used to be able to get perhaps nebula off and reroot... The nerfs to stun duration fixed being able to do that.  Least wizards have the large dmg attacks to kill single targets fast... cause that's what i do if i have to... group root, and pick em off one by one ;0/ Cast Lvl 70 Warlock Blackburrow SoN <div></div>

[massem]

<DIV>Surging tempest is a single target stun+dmg DoT not an AoE. Wizards never had AE stun.</DIV>

[!DotU!_{Voltron}]

Been a Warlock since day 1 of EQ2, and I have regretted it ever since....<div></div>

[Dabbie]

<div></div>Being that wizards are single target dmg.... they have 3 or more single target stuns.... being that warlocks are aoe... they have 2 short duration aoe stuns (soon to be completely nerfed). Why do we have to go into wizards are worse than warlocks etc. fights? The classes are balanced (atm) for what they do--wizards can stun single targets more, warlocks have a few cheap short duration group stuns. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Dabbie on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:22 PM</span>

[Senen74]

<DIV>Feels like the final combat revamp for SWG that realy put the nail in the coffin for that game,  seems as SoE shifts devs around from game to game some new guy with the "Vision" steps in and tries to revamp the core of the game.  I for one am getting sick and tired of these major revamps at this point I'm just playing with my guild till VG comes out and hoping that Brad and crew stay true to there word and keep SoE's hands out of development and future game changes.</DIV>

[Araxes]

1.)  Please link to me the thread where it is cited that Rift will have the knockback duration reduced.  I HAVE SEEN MOOR's POST already.  <i><b>However </b></i>- in the recent test update notes (which may or may not be accurate since BG posted they would be inaccurate pre-E3 leave) <b>Rift was NOT mentioned</b>.  <i>Only the Vulian, Gas Cloud, and Devastation lines were mentioned</i>.2.)  It's been stated by Moorgard that developers are not "assigned" to any one class.  They do round-robin discussions on all classes.3.)  If there WERE a developer with a high level warlock -- do you actually think he or she would make it public knowledge?4.)  Wizards and warlocks are two separate classes.  Stop seeing who can pee furthest.  We both pee very far and will continue to do so.5.)  Please re-read this post to make sure you understood the first point clearly.<div></div>

[graxnip]

"We both pee very far and will continue to do so."lol<div></div>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vicontessa wrote:1.)  Please link to me the thread where it is cited that Rift will have the knockback duration reduced.  I HAVE SEEN MOOR's POST already.  <i><b>However </b></i>- in the recent test update notes (which may or may not be accurate since BG posted they would be inaccurate pre-E3 leave) <b>Rift was NOT mentioned</b>.  <i>Only the Vulian, Gas Cloud, and Devastation lines were mentioned</i>.2.)  It's been stated by Moorgard that developers are not "assigned" to any one class.  They do round-robin discussions on all classes.3.)  If there WERE a developer with a high level warlock -- do you actually think he or she would make it public knowledge?4.)  Wizards and warlocks are two separate classes.  Stop seeing who can pee furthest.  We both pee very far and will continue to do so.5.)  Please re-read this post to make sure you understood the first point clearly.<div></div><hr></blockquote>1) Rift Stun is a KB side efect. So It will be touched as the rest of our stuns. Cause They said all Kb stun efects will be reduced in duration. Is good someone appreciate rift. I think is one of our best spells. A use with care one, but a great one. <hr size="2" width="100%"><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Control Spell Changes ***</font></strong> <p>Note: All of the control spell changes listed here are subject to change before they go live. In fact, since these notes were written based on data from 05/04/06 and Blackguard will be in LA by the time you read this, much of it has changed before even going to Test. The notes should be a lot more sane by next week when he gets back.</p> <p>- All short knockdowns and many short stuns that were 2s in duration have been changed to a 1.5s duration.- All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3-4s in duration have been changed to a 2.5s duration.</p><p></p></div>

[vorek]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dajuuk wrote:<BR> <P> </P> <P>Masseman.   Warlocks CAN NOT solo group encounters any better than wizards can.   As ironic as it is, a Warlocks soloing life is pretty much restricted to single target encounters because of the long recast time and extreme unreliability of AOE roots.   The only AoE line warlocks get that wizards don't have an equivalent of is Devestation which is a DOT and its use on a rooted group encounter will pretty much guarantee the warlocks death especially now that the stun has been removed. </P> <P><BR> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Doing my best to stay out of this whining and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing but, the above post has to be addressed.</P> <P> </P> <P>Are you stupid or do you just suck at playing a warlock?</P> <P>At 53, I was able to take out 4 and 5 mob encounters in Sinking sands that were blue or white (Non-heroic) without rooting them at all.</P> <P>At 53, I was able to take out heroic groups without too much fuss.....rooting as needed.</P> <P>At 53, I could solo 2 of the yellow (level 57) 2xAviak groups (single down arrow on each...4 mobs total) without ever throwing a root. (Watched level 54 Conjurors, Wizards and several scout-types fail because it is 2 groups)</P> <P> </P> <P>Warlocks do kill groups faster....it is what we do and we still do it well....with or without these minor little changes.</P><p>Message Edited by vorek on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 AM</span>

[pharacyde]

<P>STUNS :</P> <P>I wonder if the OP actualy did read why those changes are happening ... </P> <P>1 chanters in lu 24 will be abel to mezz stifle and so on epic mobs, with certain reduction to the duration fot he mezz stifle and so on ... After that the epic is immune to it. This gives a role for chanters vs epic mobs which is crowd control in some way.</P> <P>2 for grouping right now, chanters could mezz and stun and so on. But they were not needed because warlocks wizards with help of other classes could chain stun a mob already. This made the chanter not realy wanted in normal grping either. So they just removed stuns, knockbacks from all classes in such way that chain stunning isn't possible anymore. This would make chanters more wanted. </P> <P> </P> <P>The stun nerf is a balancing of the game for the chanters so they would be the masters of crowd control. So stop acting like a little kid who lost his precious stun toy and accept the fact that it's a fair change. And if you used htem for solo'ing heroics, well you were never suposed to solo heroics so stop crying.</P> <P> </P> <P>RIFT :</P> <P>This spell is awesome ... no aggro when you cast it, wizards can have their fusion and die when they cast it, rift ftw.</P> <P> </P> <P>APOCALYPSE :</P> <P>Well the limite of 5mobs for an AE specialist class is kinda weak. They want to make chanters crowd control specialist, well I want my supremacy in AE back. No limit on apocalypse. </P> <P> </P> <P>INTERFERENCE: </P> <P>Not tested yet, might be good, might not. </P>

[RFMan]

<div><blockquote><hr>Senen74 wrote:<div>Feels like the final combat revamp for SWG that realy put the nail in the coffin for that game,  seems as SoE shifts devs around from game to game some new guy with the "Vision" steps in and tries to revamp the core of the game.  I for one am getting sick and tired of these major revamps at this point I'm just playing with my guild till VG comes out and hoping that Brad and crew stay true to there word and keep SoE's hands out of development and future game changes.</div><hr></blockquote>I'm right there on the boat with you.  The EQ2 development team doesn't know what it's doing.  It does some things right, but not nearly enough to convince me to stay post-VG.On a different note, I had a thought: we should make a bunch of posts doing something that the devs would have to respond to if they were actually looking just to see if they ever actually come on here...</div>

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>pharacyde wrote:<P>STUNS :</P><P>I wonder if the OP actualy did read why those changes are happening ... </P><P>1 chanters in lu 24 will be abel to mezz stifle and so on epic mobs, with certain reduction to the duration fot he mezz stifle and so on ... After that the epic is immune to it. This gives a role for chanters vs epic mobs which is crowd control in some way.</P><P>2 for grouping right now, chanters could mezz and stun and so on. But they were not needed because warlocks wizards with help of other classes could chain stun a mob already. This made the chanter not realy wanted in normal grping either. So they just removed stuns, knockbacks from all classes in such way that chain stunning isn't possible anymore. This would make chanters more wanted. </P><P> </P><P>The stun nerf is a balancing of the game for the chanters so they would be the masters of crowd control. So stop acting like a little kid who lost his precious stun toy and accept the fact that it's a fair change. And if you used htem for solo'ing heroics, well you were never suposed to solo heroics so stop crying.</P><P> </P><P>RIFT :</P><P>This spell is awesome ... no aggro when you cast it, wizards can have their fusion and die when they cast it, rift ftw.</P><P> </P><P>APOCALYPSE :</P><P>Well the limite of 5mobs for an AE specialist class is kinda weak. They want to make chanters crowd control specialist, well I want my supremacy in AE back. No limit on apocalypse. </P><P> </P><P>INTERFERENCE: </P><P>Not tested yet, might be good, might not. </P><hr></blockquote>I understand why the changes were made but it doesn't mean that these changes will not have a negative effect on warlocks. Currently, our solo ability is mediocre at best, after these changes it will be pathetic. SOE can both improve game balance and hurt Warlocks at the same time, which, from my perspective, is what may happen in LU24.

[Xarov]

<DIV>SoE doesnt give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about class balance anymore ( get a fukkin grip SoE and your dev team CLASS BALANCE WILL NEVER HAPPEN ) its human nature for one to envy another , stop thinking with your [Removed for Content] quarertly earrings in hand and use some common sense, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been a customer of SoE's for 6 years now and i have watched you [Removed for Content] away one game ( eq1  ) destroy another game ( SWG ) and not have  a freaking clue what to do with the third one ive been in ( eq2 ) . I have watch this game start as a overall balance gameplay with lots of bugs, to attempting to make it solo friendly ( first stage in trying to compete with WoW ) to finding out your intial idea for classes was garbarge ( hense LU 13  and DoF ) to now making the game for the raider ( KoS , in which now shows how much crap your combat revamp was since you didnt take into account how far AA's would improve classes ) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is wrong with you guys at SoE? Are you even intune with your player base as a whole? Do you even have employee's who know any lore about eq ? ( the whole wurmslayer becomming a 2H is utter garbage it was NEVER A 2H IN EQ1 , it was either a duel wield weapon or used as a one hand. Also by you making it a scout useable 2H you gave rogues a loop whole to use their double attack AA line with it , smart one devs ) I mean give me a break , how can you look at yourself in the mirror , releasing half arsed content ( both DoF and KoS werent even 80% complete at launch ) , no consistancy on both class mechanics and ingame mechanics ( now the removal of 85% of access requirements for zones in game ) what is going on..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For along time i can admit i was a fanboi. Time and time again when i saw how people complained thru eq1 and swg i just said to myself " blah most of those people on the boards dont know what they are talking about anyways" Boy was I wrong. Seeing how you handled this game. I'm surprised SoE hasnt gone under.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This thread is all about the nerfs to warlock abilities , my post was gonna be too but you know what screw it. IM calling you out SoE. admit that yall are a bunch of idiots who dont know what to do with this game , have no real direction ( other then the quarterly earnings report corporate has ) and simply state that yall suck and you apologize for giving us such bs over the years... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But i doubt you will cuz you need our money</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>im out </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Xarovix on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:06 PM</span>

[Astery]

Xarovix, well said. this is exactly why i cancelled.i dont believe the way of handling stuff would change at SOE without hiring new fresh minds to take over the mess this team creates. sry to say that, and i was a fanboi too.my accounts are still active for 4 and 11 days, but i already decided its over. my only way to demonstrate the frustration what developed since LU13 is not to play eq2 AGAIN.so far my 70 warlock was proud to suffix 'the Dedicated' to his name, yesterday i took it off.it really feels bad to leave a game (friends) when the reason for your leave is due to changed ruleset, class abilities, simplified gameplay, inability to deal with botters and such.

[Rumproast]

<DIV>personally I kinda liked the stun effect of devastation for soloing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on single target heroic</DIV> <DIV>apocalypse + vulian interference + aura of nihility + void distortion + thwart + nebula =  anything non-named is half dead before you need to land a root or stop casting or it has a chance to hit you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my favorite combo on named heroic is apocalpyse + thwart + nebula because you can unload a lot of damage safely without having to worry about the mob hitting you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on group heroics, apocalypse + nebula + skeletal grasp is pretty safe..if one breaks, you just vulian it and re-root it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we were pretty strong soloers (maybe the best mix of dps/control) but I thought that made up for weaknesses we had in other areas...so no Im not really pleased with this change or the erosion of our class in general over time.  not big nerfs just small ones here and there ever since LU13.  doesnt seem necessary or very well thought out</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Rumproast on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:54 AM</span>

[Primalooze]

well....this has totally [Removed for Content] me off.... with all these nerfs i am gonna seriously consider just giving up....i play this game in totally solo/small group mode and most of the spells i use are being nerfed to the point that will seriously hamper my play style...why do they constantly have to take away any fun elements to playing this game?considering that i get bloody interupted by 80% of incoming attacks these nerf will destroy any enjoyment that warlocks currently have...so we get downgraded in all areas except maybe raid combat..... marvelous <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[pharacyde]

<DIV>You can see those stun reduction removals as a nerf. Whatever. The truth is that we are a dps class. Let me spell it for you all. D P S. Not crowd control class. Again D P S. Stop saying Crowd control guys. We are a DPS class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did they change anything on our dps? No. Will we sitll do the same dps as before? Yes.</DIV> <DIV>Did we loose crowd control abilities? Yes. Was it ever our purpose to do so ? No. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conclusion. Can we see this as a nerf? Hell no. Get your function right and stop asking for things you are not supposed to do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks rock at their job. And htat's all that matters to me. All the rest is just fluff spells to me that are nice to have, but realy not needed.</DIV>

[myrii]

<div><blockquote><hr>Patrix513 wrote:<div></div> <p>I may raid 99.99% of the time. But i do occasionally solo those heroic mobs. Do I ever cast Nebula? Nope. Do I ever cast Apocalypse? nope. Why don't I cast these spells? 1) they are AE's 2) their cast timers are too long to worry about it. I'd rather burn the mob down fast and furious than wait on cast times. <font color="#ffff00">Oh but what about those groups of Heroic mobs? Skeletal Grasp is your friend. It's an AE root for a reason. </font>You do damage to a mob it can break. I think i'd choose one mob running at me than 3 coming at me at the same time.</p> <p> <font color="#cc9900">Too bad the duration of our ae root is being reduced to 18 sec with what a 20 sec recast oh and dont forget that the root break chance is being increased from 8% to 15%</font></p><hr></blockquote></div>

[Gwydion20]

<DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pharacyde wrote:<BR> <DIV>You can see those stun reduction removals as a nerf. Whatever. The truth is that we are a dps class. Let me spell it for you all. D P S. Not crowd control class. Again D P S. Stop saying Crowd control guys. We are a DPS class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did they change anything on our dps? No. Will we sitll do the same dps as before? Yes.</DIV> <DIV>Did we loose crowd control abilities? Yes. Was it ever our purpose to do so ? No. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conclusion. Can we see this as a nerf? Hell no. Get your function right and stop asking for things you are not supposed to do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks rock at their job. And htat's all that matters to me. All the rest is just fluff spells to me that are nice to have, but realy not needed.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL the most stupid post i've read in this thread. So we've been removed of half of our abilities but you suggest that's not a nerf because they haven't nerfed our other half. Fluff spells... my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV></DIV>

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> myriick wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Patrix513 wrote:<BR> <P>I may raid 99.99% of the time. But i do occasionally solo those heroic mobs. Do I ever cast Nebula? Nope. Do I ever cast Apocalypse? nope. Why don't I cast these spells? 1) they are AE's 2) their cast timers are too long to worry about it. I'd rather burn the mob down fast and furious than wait on cast times. <FONT color=#ffff00>Oh but what about those groups of Heroic mobs? Skeletal Grasp is your friend. It's an AE root for a reason. </FONT>You do damage to a mob it can break. I think i'd choose one mob running at me than 3 coming at me at the same time.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc9900>Too bad the duration of our ae root is being reduced to 18 sec with what a 20 sec recast oh and dont forget that the root break chance is being increased from 8% to 15%<BR></FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Agreed. How can anyone not see this as a huge nerf to Warlocks? With the clobbering of stuns, this is pretty much the only way to keep them off you. And now, you cannot reroot before the forst root runs out, and have way less stun ability to take up the slack. Shorter duration plus higher break chance plus longer recast than duration =  huge nerf.

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pharacyde wrote:<BR> <DIV>You can see those stun reduction removals as a nerf. Whatever. The truth is that we are a dps class. Let me spell it for you all. D P S. Not crowd control class. Again D P S. Stop saying Crowd control guys. We are a DPS class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did they change anything on our dps? No. Will we sitll do the same dps as before? Yes.</DIV> <DIV>Did we loose crowd control abilities? Yes. Was it ever our purpose to do so ? No. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conclusion. Can we see this as a nerf? Hell no. Get your function right and stop asking for things you are not supposed to do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks rock at their job. And htat's all that matters to me. All the rest is just fluff spells to me that are nice to have, but realy not needed.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What the hell are you talking about? This is functionality we had, now it's gone - that's a nerf. Every class has some functionality that's not related to their primary role - guess they should take away, invis, gate, etc.</P> <P> </P>

[Fat T]

Though I will miss the stun at the end of appocalypse, I'm interested to see if removing it will generate less aggro.

[Senen74]

Milk I'm sure your smart enough to realize that beyond stuns/stifles being considered control abilities even dps need ways to control mobs or should we say since roots are control spells by your mentality they should be removed also right?  I'n all seriousness the stuns help sorcerers achieve there dps they are not some alternate part of our class that lets us just stun lock mobs and pretend to be minor enchanters.  If anything SoE has yet again stepped across the class bounds Enchanters in Eq1 and thru many games have always been about crowd control yet this never implied the monopoly of said skills especialy short duration stuns which just about every class has and are built and ballanced including those skills. 

[Max122]

Well we are dps and that is all there is too it.  Yeah people can solo heriocs their level or above but its not something soe wants as its meant for a group.  Will this hurt soloing any designed solo hell no as we just blow them up.  Our DPS kicks serious [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in groups and on raids and if you are not playing this class to pump out some mega numbers well then maybe you picked the wrong class.

[Dreadwalk]

Your make it sound like were good soloers ?  Thats a load of bull.Solo ^ (mini heroics) are tough for a warlock , and their everywhere in KOS.Go to the beholder isle in TT and try rounding up 4 or 5 solo mobs at a time.  Cant do it ?  Well i know of melee classes that do it pretty safely.  Poeple need to realise we are not the best soloers ... just look around at some other classes.  Warlock is too weak and doesnt do enough damage to 1 or 2 shot a mob .. which is really where they should be with paper armour.  Slow casts , min/max variance... kings of the random number generator.<div></div>

[Xede]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dreadwalker wrote:<BR>Your make it sound like were good soloers ?  Thats a load of bull.<BR><BR>Solo ^ (mini heroics) are tough for a warlock , and their everywhere in KOS.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>rofl if you are saying solo ^ mobs are tough for you...then you suck and need to relearn your class or reroll and play something different.....i've solo'd mult solo encounters many times....SoS is a prime example when i was leveling up. Our single target root has a quick recast so you can keep like 3 or 4 mobs perma rooted without even breaking a sweat.</P>

[myrii]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Max122 wrote:<div></div><font color="#ffff00">Well we are dps and that is all there is too it. </font> Yeah people can solo heriocs their level or above but its not something soe wants as its meant for a group.  Will this hurt soloing any designed solo hell no as we just blow them up.  Our DPS kicks serious [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in groups and on raids and if you are not playing this class to pump out some mega numbers well then maybe you picked the wrong class.<hr></blockquote>well i am usually grouped with traubador *sp* mage fury/shaman and 1 or 2 wizzies on raids consistantally zerkers and monks/bruisers are doing 2-300 more dps than myself and the wizzies once in a while we will get above them but 95% of the time there doing the most dmg/dps this is na AoA lycuem ToS veynm instance  and yes i know how to maxamize my dmg heck furys on some ae encounters do as much as warlocks so much for masters of ae huh </div><p>Message Edited by myriick on <span class=date_text>05-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 AM</span>

[enrique_to]

I think is one of the worst argunments I have ever read to say:<hr size="2" width="100%">    - Remove stun component in Devastation and reduce warlocks stuns duration is not a Nerf cause it's not warlocks role. Warlocks Role is DPS!!!<hr size="2" width="100%">    It's just dump. Warlocks were group specialist. we were able to stun the full group of mobs. Giving healers a chance to react. We were able to stun mobs with devastation, giving healers a chance to turn tanks health to green and may be ginving ourseft a chance to root / stun / kill the mob that turn us cause of the devastation.  Now all of that is gone.    We are DPS. Rigth, we are. Nearly no tank can hold our agroo. that's a fact. As DPS we still having agroo issues not solved. We gain toooooo much agro. So SOE just removed some of our stuns, and crapped the rest of them, and that's not a nerf... And of course we still having no good agroo management tool yet.    I just wanna ask SOE to stop nerfing a broken class. You only need to see warlocks population on all the servers. for each warlock there are 2 necros, 2 conjurors and 3 wizard!!!     Now Devs only needs to ask themself... Why? <div></div>

[BrelaBella]

<DIV>I usually dont post alot on these forums, but the latest posts and comments about the warlcok nerfs definately need a comment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.if you play your warlock as your main, you KNOW this is a series of NERFS, not some "oh we forgot we didnt want you to have stuns" BS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. yes im sure there IS some kind of problem with chain stunning that needs fixing, but warlocks were given stuns and roots PRE- mob revamp ( whichever LU that was), and now when the mobs are alot tougher than they even used to be, our only way to deal with broken agro is being nerfed and or comepletely removed. If they expect that every group is going to have a crowd controller (ie ench) they obviously havent been checking their server populations lately. And yes, maybe if they were BUFFING up our root(s) somehow and intend for us to use them i could understand. but no... roots are being nerfed TOO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. and for all the comments out there, if warlocks are truely supposed to be a PURE dps class without overlaps, then you better give us SOME way to overcome the agro. sorry but if i have to wait wait wait before casting spells cause tanks cant hold agro ( yeah get a wiz and warlock with a pally tank and ONE will be pulling agro most times) we arent much of a dps class. "oh my job is to cast but i cant for fear of dying in 2 hits, have no way to control even my OWN agro while casting (yeah concuss is a joke), tanks cant control my agro, and i just want to do my JOB!!!! i dont get pets to break off some of the agro my DPS is accruing!! yet still im SUPPOSED to be considered T1... NOT to mention the cast times which STILL haunt every warlock out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. and idk what all of you people think about Rift, but its seriously lacking in comparision to Fusion. Now im not harping on Wizzys cause seriously Fusion is one of the only things they get that puts them over the other "dps" classes to be in T1, but ffs Rift PALES in comparison.  "hmmm oh look i get to aoe nuke these 3 groups of mobs for 3.5k MAX each but have to kiss my butt goodbye if i actually intend to use Rift as it was meant....... IE agro from EVERY mob tha tthe tank isnt "focused" on. So if i intend to stay alive i can only use it on a single group of mobs. compare 12k vs 4 mobs versus my 3.5k vs the group ( which is 2-4 mobs 99% of the time)</DIV> <DIV>I DONT WANT RIFT TO ONLY BE GOOD VS GREY MULTI GROUPS, whatever good that is. and i dont want to be tailord to ONLY being effective vs 1% of the encounters out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, these upcoming nerfs are looking to be the straw that broke this camels back, and only time will tell but im really looking forward to the time when i might be able to scrap this warlock and betray maybe as a wizzy. Ive been able to make it through all the past nerfs and adjust ok but im not waiting around all year for them to come back around and "refix" warlocks yet again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*flame on*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dame Nela - Mistmoore - 70 Warlock of Aegis Terra</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT PS: and for a comment made earlier, since the Devs are seemingly trying to redifine certain class roles, how about removing any substancial nuke aoe from every other class?? if enchanters are supposed to be the only crowd control, be damned sure i want to be the COMPLETE ruler of the aoe dps field. why do healers even HAVE aoe nuke/dots?? /rant off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by BrelaBella on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[Xede]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BrelaBella wrote:<BR> <DIV>4. and idk what all of you people think about Rift, but its seriously lacking in comparision to Fusion. Now im not harping on Wizzys cause seriously Fusion is one of the only things they get that puts them over the other "dps" classes to be in T1, but ffs Rift PALES in comparison.  "hmmm oh look i get to aoe nuke these 3 groups of mobs for 3.5k MAX each but have to kiss my butt goodbye if i actually intend to use Rift as it was meant....... IE agro from EVERY mob tha tthe tank isnt "focused" on. So if i intend to stay alive i can only use it on a single group of mobs. compare 12k vs 4 mobs versus my 3.5k vs the group ( which is 2-4 mobs 99% of the time)</DIV> <DIV>I DONT WANT RIFT TO ONLY BE GOOD VS GREY MULTI GROUPS, whatever good that is. and i dont want to be tailord to ONLY being effective vs 1% of the encounters out there. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You are wrong on Rift....i can hit easitly 4-6k on each mob with Rift. Also it is rare when you get aggro with Rift...why because the damage portion of the spell is the side effect of the knockdown portion. So you will rarely take aggro unless the tank has yet to taunt the mobs. Rift is great when you get those extra groups of adds and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...Fusion is nice on a single group of mobs...both obviously have their downfalls and strengths....and both are great spells when used in the right situation. Also Fusion the mobs have to be set up the right way in order for it to hit all the mobs intended...if not its a complete waste to use. Yah 16k on a nuke is nice...but if you can fully maximize it then its useless. Wizards die using Fusion all the time....Warlocks from what i have heard and read rarely die/take aggro using Rift. IMO i'd rather hit 10 mobs for 4-6k each than 3 mobs for 15k and die.</P> <P>Also if the tank is good enough and see's the adds coming...he would switch over to them and taunt them as well before they can come and kill you.</P>

[Max122]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> myriick wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Max122 wrote:<BR> <FONT color=#ffff00>Well we are dps and that is all there is too it. </FONT> Yeah people can solo heriocs their level or above but its not something soe wants as its meant for a group.  Will this hurt soloing any designed solo hell no as we just blow them up.  Our DPS kicks serious [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in groups and on raids and if you are not playing this class to pump out some mega numbers well then maybe you picked the wrong class.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>well i am usually grouped with traubador *sp* mage fury/shaman and 1 or 2 wizzies on raids consistantally zerkers and monks/bruisers are doing 2-300 more dps than myself and the wizzies once in a while we will get above them but 95% of the time there doing the most dmg/dps this is na AoA lycuem ToS veynm instance  and yes i know how to maxamize my dmg heck furys on some ae encounters do as much as warlocks so much for masters of ae huh <BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by myriick on <SPAN class=date_text>05-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:50 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well myriick what is your numbers.  I am getting 1200 dps easy plus on any encounter of 2 or more mobs and this is without hardly dying mind you.  Single targets 800 plus to the 1200 mark.  If its a long named fight so long my spells are hitting I am top 3 easy.  We have one zerker and monk now used to be 2.  Very Very rarely will the monks be higher then me if they got the furies spell agitate on them if not they will be 200 or so below me.  Our dps is usually myself the other warlock the wizard and the conjurors in the top 5 with the brigands making it every so often as well.  Xede maybe you can chime in some but are you usually up the top of the list for you guild on dps.  I will say though group setup really effects our dps but it does for alot of classes melee need some enhancement as well to show the numbers.  Big thing with us is aggro management take that factor down some and it wont matter what group Im dps will be very high all the time.

[BrelaBella]

<DIV>sorry but given the option of Fusion or Rift, id take Fusion. maybe im the only one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dame Nela</DIV>

[enrique_to]

It's not another debate about Rift versus Fusion. I agree Rift makes too little damage and the Max number of targets on rift is just Hilarious... Most situations Fusion is more efective than Rift. But in most situaions Wizard are more efective that warlocks. That's a fact.But Rift is a great spell, cause It generate very few agroo. Whenever I cast Rift I do not fear about agroo. But Its too long radio can cause undesirable adds <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Rift and Fusion are "Handle with care" spells. IMHO fusion have causes more death to their casters cause the agroo its cause. Rift agroo is one of the better things for warlocks. But I agree. As our uber 65 special spell, It should do more damage. Rift damage is more that the double. And Is too hard (nearly imposible) to reach full Rift AoE potential. It's the tipical example of why our class is broken. SOE did not realize (Or do not want to realize) that no one can handle such kind of AoE sitiuations. 12 targets?!? the mini dragons in HoF?  I love Rift cause It cause too little agroo. But I think its Range sould be a bit reduced, It's damage increased and its max AoE Targets should be also reduced. But Rift is not our greater problem. Our greater problem is let lack of agroo management Tools we have. And alfter LU24, the lack of control tools we'll have<div></div>

[sAs-Bartleby]

<blockquote><hr>Patrix513 schrieb:<div></div> <p>I may raid 99.99% of the time. But i do occasionally solo those heroic mobs. Do I ever cast Nebula? Nope. Do I ever cast Apocalypse? nope. Why don't I cast these spells? 1) they are AE's 2) their cast timers are too long to worry about it. I'd rather burn the mob down fast and furious than wait on cast times. Oh but what about those groups of Heroic mobs? Skeletal Grasp is your friend. It's an AE root for a reason. You do damage to a mob it can break. I think i'd choose one mob running at me than 3 coming at me at the same time.</p> <p><b>Even when i was leveling up from 50-60 and then 60-70 i did not even think of those spells as stuns. i used those as damage spells.</b> To me i do not see this as a huge nerf to the class like most of you think. In all actuality i am glad they took the stun off of Apocalypse. it's the class defining spell that deals AE Damage over time. Our class defining abilities are not the utility of stuns...it is to do AE Damage. The stun effect to Nebula is nice...but its not the critical part of the spell i think. Why would SOE make an AE stun with 1k+ damage to all mobs?</p><hr></blockquote>I played a warlock (50) the early 5 days when DoF started. One stun of our AE lasts long enough that we can cast devastation while mobs are running to us. It lasts just that long, that i was not interrupted before spellcast end. If these stuns are removed, this taktik is kickek. The only other method would be to root our enemys. But sorry our group root didn´t work the way we would need it. All these changes made to warlock made us lesser able to defeat groups. But this is ment to be our role. So first we were made to an AoE char and then they nerf our abilitys to fullfill our role. And that is the difference to wizards. They were made to a DD class and they can do it well. There is a clear difference between teir DD output and the DD output we make. But them are given AoE as well and in 70% of all situation they fit very well to group encounter and warlocks sucks for single mobs. And now the wizards are afraid because we found it out. They want us to be calm so nobody hears it, because they like to compare themselve to others to get more dps all the time. <div></div>

[massem]

<blockquote><hr>sAs-Bartleby wrote: So first we were made to an AoE char and then they nerf our abilitys to fullfill our role. And that is the difference to wizards. They were made to a DD class and they can do it well. There is a clear difference between teir DD output and the DD output we make. But them are given AoE as well and in 70% of all situation they fit very well to group encounter and warlocks sucks for single mobs. And now the wizards are afraid because we found it out. They want us to be calm so nobody hears it, because they like to compare themselve to others to get more dps all the time. <div></div><hr></blockquote>A well-played wizard can beat a mediocre warlock on AoE DPS-wise, just as a well-played warlock can outDPS a mediocre wizard on DD. If you can't outDPS a wizard on AoE it is probably because the wizard is good and you suck <span>:smileyhappy:</span>. <div></div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Just for the record, put it this way regarding fusion and rift - wizards use fusion as soon as it's up (every 3 mins) and warlocks use rift maybe once every hour when the opportunity presents itself.

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<BR> Just for the record, put it this way regarding fusion and rift - wizards use fusion as soon as it's up (every 3 mins) and warlocks use rift maybe once every hour when the opportunity presents itself.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wizzards use Ice Comit as soon as its up. Warlocks use devistation when there are multiple tarets... So whats your point. Rift is a 0 agro spell.  15 m for rift in most situations is nice alows you to hit all targets beating on the MT. Fusion is only 5m and a small radius.</P> <P>Both spells have pros and cons. But rift adds 4-6k damage /mob every 3 mins with 0 chance of death. Warlocks complain about agro control here is a spell that acomidates us. </P>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

What? You have basically said nothing there. And it's spelt 'wizard'. Your example and analogy doesn't work mate and your post just seems like gibberish to me. You cast rift on single targets cos it doesn't generate hate? What are you trying to say? My point was fusion is useful in way more situations than rift whether it be single target or multiple targets. Concerning multiple targets, there are hardly any encounters where there are a lot of mobs in an encounter such as 12 so rift does not present much dps in the smaller group encounters. Also take in mind we have so many other aes on long cast times that we have to get in before many mobs fall as 5s is a long time. Now regarding the hate they generate, yes rift has the upper hand there, but again how often does rift present good dps output over the other aes? Also I laugh at the fact that so many think cast fusion = immediate aggro. Our wizard casts fusion regularly and never gets aggro from it and outputs 1600+ dps on a regular basis (2k+ when he hits 3 with fusion) - obviously there are those situations where it would not be wise to cast it but it is still way more useful than rift. Think about it.<div></div>

[massem]

<div></div><div></div>In group fights Fusion can basically be used at will without too much risk, but mobs die fast enough anyhow to make it extremely useful, other than for climping to the top of the DPS parse. In dungeons as well, when the tank accidentally pulls a whole room , fusion can be great to split up the mobs and have them contreate on the mage instead. After snaring with Numbing cold the wizard can basically park the adds. In raids fusion is not particularly useful, because of the time potentially lost positioning and potentially dying due to barrage or AA. Since the epics cannot be snared, the most likely outcome is death if the tank hasnt single target taunted all mobs and fusion accidentally hits more than one mobs. Another issue with fusion on raids is that the extremely short range combine with the narrow angle constraint makes it virtually impossible to reliably target. Most epic targets are bigger than the range of fusion and it is therefore more luck than skill involved in finding the hotspot to target. In my experience the mob health and name display point is not necessarily the right point. As a results I barely use fusion on raids, since normally more DPS can be done by cycling the other DD spells. Both fusion and rift are excellent spells on the occasions they can be effectively used, but the usaeability is very limited for both. It can be an ego-boost though to hit for more than 20k on a debuffed mob every once in a while <span>:smileyhappy:</span> And Sme - there is absolutetely no point in throwing DPS numbers around unless you specify the conditions it was made under. Was it single or multiple targets ? Was it epics or group mobs ? All wizards and warlocks can get infinite DPS on the parser by nuking a level 1 grey with a single target DD at App1 so numbers in themself bear absolutely no relevance. <p>Message Edited by masseman on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:13 AM</span>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote:<BR>What? You have basically said nothing there. And it's spelt 'wizard'. Your example and analogy doesn't work mate and your post just seems like gibberish to me. You cast rift on single targets cos it doesn't generate hate? What are you trying to say? My point was fusion is useful in way more situations than rift whether it be single target or multiple targets. Concerning multiple targets, there are hardly any encounters where there are a lot of mobs in an encounter such as 12 so rift does not present much dps in the smaller group encounters. Also take in mind we have so many other aes on long cast times that we have to get in before many mobs fall as 5s is a long time. Now regarding the hate they generate, yes rift has the upper hand there, but again how often does rift present good dps output over the other aes? Also I laugh at the fact that so many think cast fusion = immediate aggro. Our wizard casts fusion regularly and never gets aggro from it and outputs 1600+ dps on a regular basis (2k+ when he hits 3 with fusion) - obviously there are those situations where it would not be wise to cast it but it is still way more useful than rift. Think about it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My analagy is for Rift is for multi encounters. Fusion is more of a Single target Spell, true it does hit up to 3 targets but if they cast it to early on a multiple encounter, they will die. Try casting a crit apoc. For me I do about 10k Damage per mob. Nomraly in a raid situation that will kill me, unless I wait a long time into the ncounter to cast it. Fusion does more damage. If they cast it an hit multiple mobs teh chances of Drawing agro are quite high. Rift on Multi encounters has basicaly a nill chance to draw agro.</P> <P>So Rift = Uber Multi Encounter spell, Fusion = Uber Single target spell. </P>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mastire wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> SmEaGoLLuM86 wrote: <div></div>Just for the record, put it this way regarding fusion and rift - wizards use fusion as soon as it's up (every 3 mins) and warlocks use rift maybe once every hour when the opportunity presents itself. <hr> </blockquote> <p>Wizzards use Ice Comit as soon as its up. Warlocks use devistation when there are multiple tarets... So whats your point. Rift is a 0 agro spell.  15 m for rift in most situations is nice alows you to hit all targets beating on the MT. Fusion is only 5m and a small radius.</p> <p>Both spells have pros and cons. But rift adds 4-6k damage /mob every 3 mins with 0 chance of death. Warlocks complain about agro control here is a spell that acomidates us. </p><hr></blockquote>I uses sometimes devastation versus single targets. And I uses rift whenever i can and there are figthing more than one mob. Of course you must  take care cause rift can cause a huge amount of adds. But It's a really great spell.I would love to have fusion. But I'm sure I'm safe cause I do not have his spell LOLBoth spells are great. I destroyed grouped heroics encounter with ease with rift and Aphocalipse. (Upgraded version of devastation)</div>

[sAs-Bartleby]

<blockquote><hr>masseman schrieb:<blockquote><hr>sAs-Bartleby wrote: So first we were made to an AoE char and then they nerf our abilitys to fullfill our role. And that is the difference to wizards. They were made to a DD class and they can do it well. There is a clear difference between teir DD output and the DD output we make. But them are given AoE as well and in 70% of all situation they fit very well to group encounter and warlocks sucks for single mobs. And now the wizards are afraid because we found it out. They want us to be calm so nobody hears it, because they like to compare themselve to others to get more dps all the time. <div></div><hr></blockquote>A well-played wizard can beat a mediocre warlock on AoE DPS-wise, just as a well-played warlock can outDPS a mediocre wizard on DD. If you can't outDPS a wizard on AoE it is probably because the wizard is good and you suck <span>:smileyhappy:</span>. <div></div><hr></blockquote>boring. how much is the chance of warlocks to beat an even good wizard in DD dps and the other way round? You should think better before write such sonsens. Single tagets have more health -> casting times can be long because the mob is not dead in 4 sekonds. This benefits the wizard in his dd role. Group mobs have less health and die quickly -> it is luck or unlock who makes the most damage and has nothing to do with player skills. If you pick a mob another player has too, the mob die before devastation is cast. If you assist your MT you will never be able to cast devastation on a group mob. What has this to do with player skills. Nothing. but i think you didn´t try to understand the problems warlocks have.<div></div>

[Schaestm]

<DIV>^^^</DIV> <DIV>Clearly doesn't stay up to date.  On test, casting an encounter nuke and your target getting killed doesn't interrupt your cast now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Morb</DIV>