LU 24.

[Dajuuk]

<DIV>Whats the deal with the announced LU 24 changes.   Our stuns and pacify are integral parts to our survivability.   How bad is this going to hit our spells?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Dajuuk on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:20 AM</span>

[chaos overlo]

<DIV>I dont think it will have much impact on out class. The nebula/devastation stun is some kind of nice-to-have, but was never essential to my playstyle and our pacify is already broken. TBH I dont care much about a shortened stun duration. If they would touch our AE root, it would be something different. This is where I agree with u, weakening the AE roots would seriously nerf our class even further, but I didnt read about this. So lets stay calm. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Diapause]

But it does sound like it will impact our Thwart and Interference line of spells which are heavily relied on when Root breaks. Inteference right now is barely long enough to get another root off. My hope would be that they would not lower our Stun/Pacify spell lines lower than it takes to cast another root spell.Quattra - Lvl  70 Warlock<div></div>

[MilkToa]

<P>Our ability to solo will take a major hit, especially groups of mobs where stuns are used extensively. If the example change of a stun going from 4 secs to 2.5 sec is applied across the board then it's a 37.5% reduction in duration. Scouts will be hit hard too because loosing stun duration will make if very difficult to get off positional attacks when soloing or tanking in small groups. I think brusiers will also be hit hard since stunning is a major part of their damage reducing strategy when tanking. I'm sure every class will be effected negatively in some way.</P> <P>Although I've always thought that stuns were far to promient a component of this game, making these changes is going to have a major impact on how people play the game. SOE could mitigate some of the problems by replacing some stun effects with slightly longer non-breakable roots effects instead of reducing the stun times.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Araxes]

<div></div>Until they give more specific information on exactly which spells / classes will get reductions to stun durations I don't think there's any point to speculating on this.<div></div>All I will add is that - the way I have read the dev replies to this issue is that it's a very specific thing they are trying to do.  I think maybe some people are going overboard with assumptions.<p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:33 AM</span>

[Dajuuk]

<DIV>Its not really a panic thing at this point.   While I make extensive use of these spells while soloing, I don't solo very often, so that aspect is not a huge issue for me.   In groups though, I use these spells when the stuff starts to hit the fan to slow down the damage a bit and help the healers keep up, or when I accidentally pull agro.   It was useful to be able to pacify, and then if necessary stun a mob to give the tank a chance to regain agro and me a chance to survive the attempt, though in many cases I died to quickly to get the spell off so I am not sure its going to be a big impact there either now that I think about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think that unbreakable roots would be a good idea though that would be too overpowering.  I am not sure if they should do anything to compensate for the change, but if they do make an additional rebalance change I hope that it is not some form of unbreakable root.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dajuuk wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its not really a panic thing at this point.   While I make extensive use of these spells while soloing, I don't solo very often, so that aspect is not a huge issue for me.   In groups though, I use these spells when the stuff starts to hit the fan to slow down the damage a bit and help the healers keep up, or when I accidentally pull agro.   It was useful to be able to pacify, and then if necessary stun a mob to give the tank a chance to regain agro and me a chance to survive the attempt, though in many cases I died to quickly to get the spell off so I am not sure its going to be a big impact there either now that I think about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think that unbreakable roots would be a good idea though that would be too overpowering.  I am not sure if they should do anything to compensate for the change, but if they do make an additional rebalance change I hope that it is not some form of unbreakable root.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As prior to LU13 Warlocks had an unbreakable root and SOE decided to remove it, I somehow dont see them giving it back.

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Sorry folks you just been [Removed for Content] ... but please dont blame enchanters for this - its way how SOE fixing em (by nerfing everyone else)</DIV>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dajuuk wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its not really a panic thing at this point.   While I make extensive use of these spells while soloing, I don't solo very often, so that aspect is not a huge issue for me.   In groups though, I use these spells when the stuff starts to hit the fan to slow down the damage a bit and help the healers keep up, or when I accidentally pull agro.   It was useful to be able to pacify, and then if necessary stun a mob to give the tank a chance to regain agro and me a chance to survive the attempt, though in many cases I died to quickly to get the spell off so I am not sure its going to be a big impact there either now that I think about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think that unbreakable roots would be a good idea though that would be too overpowering.  I am not sure if they should do anything to compensate for the change, but if they do make an additional rebalance change I hope that it is not some form of unbreakable root.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As prior to LU13 Warlocks had an unbreakable root and SOE decided to remove it, I somehow dont see them giving it back.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm not talking about a 30+ sec unbreakable root, just something slightly longer than the stun effects.  The problem is that in fulls groups 4 or 6 people casting stuns is overpowered since it trivializes the content (the mob is perma-stunned), while in solo situations it's not overpowering for most classes.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Mastire]

Untill we see what the changes are we won't know. Losing any more stun time on the devistation line would make it useless. And withe the reductions of the other stun times over the past 9 LU's I don't think they will nerf it anymore. If they do our ability to solo could be greatly hurt.

[Fat T]

Reading the post in combat discussion lockeye mentioned roots that now have a 20% chance to break on a hostile spell will be reduced to 15% which to me on paper seems like an even trade for reduced stun times.

[Senen74]

<DIV>That would never be an even trade 15-20% is going to be the same chance essentialy now if it dropped down to say 7% ya I wouldn't be so upset about more changes to our class without a single thing in I can't remember how long to actualy help us out.  Seriously SoE totaly screwed SWG up with all there combat revamping and look where that game has gone Lucas Arts pulled the license and now has another company working on reproducing the game.  SoE needs to get there stuff together to many games are due out around the time of there proposed next expansion to be doing stupid stuff to upset the majority of the player base just so one class can get some minor enhancements and try to brush it off as well its been coming for a long time because perfectly built grps were to effecient.  So now for having any skill in playing your classes linked with others equates youve stepped out of bounds.  I feel realy sorry for people that primarly solo in this game now or have even the less then optimaly playing grps.</DIV>

[graxnip]

Hi,Can someone please link the thread where you read about lu24? Ive been scanning the developer corner threads and I dont see it.Thanks<div></div>

[enrique_to]

    No panic? LOL.     One think I like more about my warlock were it's stuns...    We are great agroo makers. Sure, but we can keep the mob stuned a good time. If they reduce or remove our stuns, will they give us something in return? Will anyone be willing to group with us?    One great think about warlocks were they stuns. We were one of the only classes that can stun a full group mobs. Now what?    Nebula and Dark Nebula stun duration have the same time. If they reduce dark nebula stun time, please give nebula a Hier Stun time cause it's a hier tier spell.    I think we can go in panic with LU24. Their will nefer us even more. And they keep us with no util spells. Overdamaged by Wizzards and any other DPS class (even by conjurors) and now with less duration stuns, even longer cast time stuns and may be removing some of our stuns. I think Devastation wi'll no longer stun mobs.     Of course till LU24 go on we'll not see the efects. May be we'll even get fixed with better roots (LOL) or fixing out Pacifies, or ... Just we'll be nefer to HELL.     Wi'll warlocks be fixed? We'll our class have some real agroo reduction? Some util spell... something? of we'll just be nefer and nefer again till no one will want's to group a warlock.<div></div>

[TheSlashman]

DOES ANYONE ON THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM PLAY A WARLOCK?  IF NOT GO TRY IT!!!!!!!

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> graxnip wrote:<BR>Hi,<BR><BR>Can someone please link the thread where you read about lu24? Ive been scanning the developer corner threads and I dont see it.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is the post to which we are referring:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102219#M102219" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102219#M102219</A></P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Just FYI the only class who can truely AoE stun (more correctly word would PBAE stun with huge radius) are coercer. Its sorta (tm) Psychic Wail and Sonic Boom </DIV>

[Araxes]

<div></div>Just a run-down ... for reference and illustration more than anything else --Chaostorm - PBAoE Interrupt on terminationNebula - Stuns upon being cast; encounter-wideApocalypse - Stun (Vul's Devastation) cast upon termination; encounter-wide up to 5 targetsThwart - Stun and snare vs. single targetVulian line - Pacify vs. single targetNull Caress - PBAoE Teleport random distance within 20 meters ; stun ; snareRift - PBAoE 15 meter range ; Knockback ; up to 12 targetsCowering Bind - Fear on breakGrasp line - encounter-wide rootWe ARE a control class to a degree.  Not exactly coercers or illusionists but probably next in line after those two.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>05-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:10 PM</span>

[Astery]

i wouldnt consider control class at all, those stuns are there for a reason, not to get insta killed if tank and healer knows thier job... without stuns? i dont know, lets see. even less warlocks will play, so what?!in a 230 member guild i'm the only warlock, there is one level 23, but he is almost inactive and plays his ranger. i'm sure gimping further will not encourage more players to pick up on warlocks.

[enrique_to]

    I really belive we do need a fix. And all we get are nerf and more nerf.     Wi'll they reduce our agroo in return? Wi'll they bring us a Agroo reduction tool in return? Wi'll they ever read Warlock Forums?       I do not think so.<div></div>

[DwarvesR]

<P>When I was 50 I was in PF with a 51 'Lock as well.  The healer had to leave the group, but between the 2 of us we could keep the mobs stunned or stifled the majority of the time, so our tank, who was 3 levels below the ^^^ mobs was able to finish the fights in green health.  Yes. . . . he was tanking yellow (to him) ^^^ mobs and finishing in green health.</P> <P>It helped that while I stunned the other lock nuked, and while I nuked he stunned. . . .we worked well together.</P>

[Deathspell]

at DwarvesRUs:What are you saying with that scenario in PF? Just because 2 Warlocks grouping together can do that should not mean the class getting nerfed in it's soloing abilities.Put 2 healers with that tank and he could do the same thing, but it  but I don't see those classes getting nerfed.<div></div>

[Astery]

<blockquote><hr>Deathspell wrote:at DwarvesRUs:What are you saying with that scenario in PF? Just because 2 Warlocks grouping together can do that should not mean the class getting nerfed in it's soloing abilities.Put 2 healers with that tank and he could do the same thing, but it  but I don't see those classes getting nerfed.<div></div><hr></blockquote>exactly, this is not a realistic scenario. as i just said, in my guild there is only one warlock...myself.also been teaming alot till i got to 70, and i never teamed another warlock! wizards yes (sometimes even 2), but never 2 warlocks.tell me i'm wrong.

[Nere]

Like the man said .. they fix one class by nerfing others .. standard SOE response.

[Tanatus]

<P>Vicontessa ... *sign* here we go</P> <P>Coercer</P> <P>Counfoundment line - single target uninteruptable stun 7.0s duration</P> <P>, Deep Focus line - single target stun 11.0s duration,</P> <P> Mind Bend - reactive 3X4s stun single target,</P> <P>Amnesia - 1.5s insta cast stun with memblur</P> <P> Sonic Boom line - PBAE stun - 7.0s duration, </P> <P>Harrowing silence line - 14s stifle single target,</P> <P> Rutious hesitation - 51 sec root with 12 second pacify on impact (not on termination),</P> <P> Stroke - nuke-interupt (4s recast), </P> <P>insta cast PBAE fear 8s duration,</P> <P> Ego Torrent line - 17s root (builded into nuke) - that not counting various mezes... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Araxes]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>TanatusJust because I make a post doesn't mean it's directed at you.  As I said in the post - it was for <b>REFERENCE </b>(i.e. to enlighten posters who do not play high level warlocks on some general information about our abilities) in light of this discussion.  End of story.  I wasn't trying to make or argue any points at all beyond the fact that -- in comparison to most of the game's other "non-control" classes ... we have a lot of control spells.  Probably the most control  spells of any class <b><i>EXCEPTING illusionists and coercers</i></b>.  (Which I thought I made pretty clear in the last line but I guess you missed that subtlety.)  And if you want to read into that - the subtext was <i>So we stand to lose a lot if we are nerfed in this regard.   </i>That was it.  Quit trying to pick fights where there are none to be had.<p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:47 PM</span>

[DwarvesR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deathspell wrote:<BR>at DwarvesRUs:<BR><BR>What are you saying with that scenario in PF? <BR><BR>Just because 2 Warlocks grouping together can do that should not mean the class getting nerfed in it's soloing abilities.<BR>Put 2 healers with that tank and he could do the same thing, but it  but I don't see those classes getting nerfed.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>exactly, this is not a realistic scenario. as i just said, in my guild there is only one warlock...myself.<BR><BR>also been teaming alot till i got to 70, and i never teamed another warlock! <BR>wizards yes (sometimes even 2), but never 2 warlocks.<BR><BR>tell me i'm wrong.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Back then, I would have told you that you were wrong, becuz I saw warlocks in those levels all the time.  However, as I posted on a different thread. . . my 'lock was 60th on my server to 51, and I didn't play her for a month and then finally got 52 and was 61st on server, then didn't play her for another month, then ground out a level and was still 61st when I hit 53.  I haven't really played my warlock since then that I can recall.  I see a certain 70 'lock running around every so often, but other than that. . . . . Warlocks do seem to be even rarer than Coercers anymore.</P> <P>The whole point of my post was to reinforce what Viscontessa said -- as warlocks we do have quite a few control spells.  Most classes seem to have about a 10-15% stun ability, where the 'lock is about 50%.  That's a *huge* difference. Granted, it's not nearly as much as a chanter with their ability to stifle/stun 100% of the time (I have a 48 coercer -- I know of what I speak there too), but still a TON more than most classes.  The point wasn't that 2 warlocks in a group was common, simply that 50-ish% stun/stfile lock is available to a warlock.  That was it.</P> <P>FWIW, I also was in a group in PF with my 'lock and a 44 Coercer.  I just nuked and let him be CC in that group, though.  Healer was pretty bored. . . . <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Anyway, I don't see the beef against soloability.  When I solo I mostly just use the roots, unless I'm against a caster mob.  Losing a little stun duration won't make much difference to me, assuming I ever dust off my Warlock again.</P>

[Dajuuk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DwarvesRUs wrote: <P>Anyway, I don't see the beef against soloability.  When I solo I mostly just use the roots, unless I'm against a caster mob.  Losing a little stun duration won't make much difference to me, assuming I ever dust off my Warlock again.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It does effect soloability.   I agree with you about the roots, but it didn't used to be such a big deal if root broke early or if it was outright resisted.   You could paci or stun and get a chance to get most of a root spell off.   Those abilities increased our survivability alot.   Now we are going to have to be casting root (just in case) alot more frequently.   And when it does break then we will be getting hit for a lot longer duration while we are trying to reroot (if we live long enough to get it off).   A couple of interupts or a second root break on an encounter will most likely kill us.</P> <P>The very nature of relying on root and nuke as a strategy is iffy and thats fine.   This change though has the potential to make that even more iffy.   We'll see how it goes it maybe that the vision is that we are a intended to be a 5th choice option for control behind chanters and then bards.  Sorta half way between chanters and everybody else.   If thats the case this nerf may affect us somewhat but not severly.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Xarov]

<DIV>5% less breakability on roots is not a fair tradeoff for the halfed duration on Nebula , removal of the stun from devastation, the removal of our pacify among other things... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thanks SoE thing should be "great" for soloability </DIV>

[DwarvesR]

<DIV>Ew.  The changes posted now are FAR worse than they initially announced.  Initial announcement was just that stuns would be reduced in duration a bit, but . . . .losing Pacify, no more stun in Devastation, gas cloud line stun being reduced sharply. . . yikes!  I didn't notice them saying the Freeze line stun duration was being shortened though.  Did I miss that?  Even so, it looks like that 50-ish% stun/stifle capability is being cut back to about 15-20% -- Definitely a huge nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I'd really like would be for the Freeze line's cast time to be shortened back to pre-LU13.  That was nice to be able to pull with wand, stun while still far away, then root.  The longer cast time made that such an iffy proposition after that LU.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit to add:  I was kinda thinking of trying to go back to playing my 'lock a bit more, but. . . now I don't think I will be doing that.  Guess she stays on the shelf and just serves as the provie for my other toons.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DwarvesRUs on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:38 AM</span>

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DwarvesRUs wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ew.  The changes posted now are FAR worse than they initially announced.  Initial announcement was just that stuns would be reduced in duration a bit, but . . . .losing Pacify, no more stun in Devastation, gas cloud line stun being reduced sharply. . . yikes!  I didn't notice them saying the Freeze line stun duration was being shortened though.  Did I miss that?  Even so, it looks like that 50-ish% stun/stifle capability is being cut back to about 15-20% -- Definitely a huge nerf. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I suspect Freeze will get hit immediately, if it wasn't hit in this update. That would seem to be be consistent.

[Soul_Dreamer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GPA_Shipwreck wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DwarvesRUs wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ew.  The changes posted now are FAR worse than they initially announced.  Initial announcement was just that stuns would be reduced in duration a bit, but . . . .losing Pacify, no more stun in Devastation, gas cloud line stun being reduced sharply. . . yikes!  I didn't notice them saying the Freeze line stun duration was being shortened though.  Did I miss that?  Even so, it looks like that 50-ish% stun/stifle capability is being cut back to about 15-20% -- Definitely a huge nerf. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I suspect Freeze will get hit immediately, if it wasn't hit in this update. That would seem to be be consistent.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There are the 2 lines saying ::<BR><FONT color=#ff0033> - All short knockdowns and many short stuns that were 2s in duration have been changed to a 1.5s duration.<BR>- All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3-4s in duration have been changed to a 2.5s duration.<BR></FONT><BR>Theres The Warlock Rift/Thwart (Freeze Line) Nerf</P>