Agro reduction for Warlocks - ideas

[agress]

So, after LU13, we're now an AOE / targeted group class.  Our signature spells affect groups.  Concussive was added, because obviously sorcerers just get agro too much.  Concussive is great for Wizards, since they do single target and Concussive does single target.Suggestions to fix this:1) Give us our own version of concussive that is group based.  Perhaps dont reduce as much agro per mob as Concussive though.2) Give us a buff to put on our MT that either:   a) Gives their group taunt more hate generation (depending on our spell level)   b) Lowers the recast timer of their group taunt % amount (depending on our spell level)3) Give us an upgradable hate transfering buff, perhaps at the cost of +int, or something.  I'd be willing to take damage reduction if it means I can use my spells.With #2, i dont know how feasible it would be technically, but to me its a good idea.  Tank taunts are definitely biased towards single target and the group ones do less hate and have a much longer recast timer.  In a fight when I'm with a large group, the chances of them using the group taunt more than twice or three, I'd say, is remote, unless there is a named involved or its a really high con fight.  We generate considerably more hate then they can taunt, in a group setting.Its rare that I can actually use my AE's in battle (maybe one or two of them, spread out throughout the fight, if the mobs are still alive) and not draw agro.  Dark Nebula, sure.  If I use devastation or absolution within 5-8 seconds after that, I WILL get agro, by at least 2 of the mobs, assuming they are still alive.Meanwhile, I'm sitting there casting single target DD's and DoT's just to avoid agro.  My DPS then goes into the cellar, and our fights last longer.  Sometimes its just quicker to completely unload (wicked gift/maelstrom/nebula/devastation/absolution) and hope that all mobs die before I die - usually pisses off the healer and tanks tho.  Not that I expect to be able to use such a combination, but its rare that I can see a tank that will hold against more than one AE.  And if we are left doing single target 80% of the time, we are horribly ineffective.agressivUnrest Server<div></div>

[Wossname]

I like option 4:Give Sorcerors (both types, though Warlocks have it worse with the reliance on AoE) a conc-slot or single target (tank) hate transferance line like the Scouts have. No penalties to INT or DPS, the scouts don't take a cut so why should we? Do this and discard Concurrence as the stop-gap measure it is.Sorceror DPS is already well down despite our supposed status as Tier 1 DPS - let's get some real fixes instead of limping along asking for scraps.<div></div>

[Tomanak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wossname wrote:I like option 4:Give Sorcerors (both types, though Warlocks have it worse with the reliance on AoE) a conc-slot or single target (tank) hate transferance line like the Scouts have. No penalties to INT or DPS, the scouts don't take a cut so why should we? Do this and discard Concurrence as the stop-gap measure it is.Sorceror DPS is already well down despite our supposed status as Tier 1 DPS - let's get some real fixes instead of limping along asking for scraps.<div></div><hr></blockquote>This would be nice, but Id settle for making Concussive group based so I would at least have a chance.....

[D-lirium]

Concussive does work vs groups... at least, it works vs every mob that gets hit by the first spell after you have casted concussive.<div></div>

[agress]

<div></div>Concussive spell description seems to reflect single target.  Maybe if we could get a dev response to this?  On rare occasion can I pull agro on single target stuff (even without this spell) but it doesnt seem to help group stuff at all.  My rule of thumb is that 2 AE's ---> agro on me, Concussion or not.agressivUnrest Server<div></div><p>Message Edited by agressiv on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:37 PM</span></p>

[agress]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tomanak wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wossname wrote:I like option 4:Give Sorcerors (both types, though Warlocks have it worse with the reliance on AoE) a conc-slot or single target (tank) hate transferance line like the Scouts have. No penalties to INT or DPS, the scouts don't take a cut so why should we? Do this and discard Concurrence as the stop-gap measure it is.Sorceror DPS is already well down despite our supposed status as Tier 1 DPS - let's get some real fixes instead of limping along asking for scraps.<div></div><hr></blockquote>This would be nice, but Id settle for making Concussive group based so I would at least have a chance.....<hr></blockquote>Aye, I'll settle for the scraps rather than starving for nothing.  Anything will help.  Asking for a pure hate transfer would cause scouts to complain (or someone else will, for that matter).  That is why taking a small int hit would be acceptable.  At least I could launch the AE nukes, right now they seldomly get used except when soloing.If I really wanted to be greedy, I'd ask for a "Single target stance" or a "Group Based Stance" - become single target masters on request <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Each stance would boost damage of that spell type and reduce damage of the others.  Kind of enables us to be pre-LU13 warlocks again.  Hey, I can dream too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />agressivUnrest Server</span></div>

[D-lirium]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>agressiv wrote:<div></div>Concussive spell description seems to reflect single target.  Maybe if we could get a dev response to this?  On rare occasion can I pull agro on single target stuff (even without this spell) but it doesnt seem to help group stuff at all.  My rule of thumb is that 2 AE's ---> agro on me, Concussion or not.<hr></blockquote>Concussive spell description should've said "on all targets hit by the next agressive spell" I agree, but whether and encounter is based of 1 or 5 mobs, to Devastation it's still 1 target as a whole. Kinda hard to explain this... We don't need a dev response because many warlocks (including me) have tested ALOT with concussive, I suggest you read <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=15850" target="_blank">this thread</a> for the results and hints to it's use.</span></div>

[Burnout]

<div></div>i sugest you wait for kos release ...<div></div><p>Message Edited by Burnout on <span class="date_text">02-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:20 PM</span></p>

[D-lirium]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Burnout wrote:i sugest you wait for kos release & check the aa system for sorc's for detaunt issues - maybe...<div></div><hr></blockquote>I suggest you read the <font color="#ff0000">Non Disclosure Agreement</font> before you vagualy hint towards things in KoS, adding a "maybe..." to that sentence really does not make it okay to do so.</span></div>

[Burnout]

<div></div>i wish i had your free time...<div></div><p>Message Edited by Burnout on <span class="date_text">02-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:21 PM</span></p>

[Hiro]

<div></div><div>To answer your post about giving the tank something to hold agro... Nihilism is great to cast on your MT in raid/group hence why it is raid/group buff and the hate generated from it procing is given to the MT not you. Before you start making posts about needing more to reduce hate read your spells and try and find solutions you will be suprised what you can find. that or put a class with hate transfer with the MT and you can now nuke alot more</div>

[Spag]

<div></div><div><blockquote><p></p><hr>D-lirium wrote:<span><p></p><div>Concussive spell description should've said "on all targets hit by the next agressive spell" I agree, but whether and encounter is based of 1 or 5 mobs, to Devastation it's still 1 target as a whole. Kinda hard to explain this... We don't need a dev response because many warlocks (including me) have tested ALOT with concussive, I suggest you read <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=15850" target="_blank">this thread</a> for the results and hints to it's use.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>That thread is great but it is far from conclusive.  I do feel we need a dev response on this.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Hiro32 wrote:<div></div><div>To answer your post about giving the tank something to hold agro... Nihilism is great to cast on your MT in raid/group hence why it is raid/group buff and the hate generated from it procing is given to the MT not you. Before you start making posts about needing more to reduce hate read your spells and try and find solutions you will be suprised what you can find.</div><hr></blockquote><p>/sarcasm on</p><p>Oh boy, only another 4 levels before I get this magic spell that removes all the aggro issues I ever had, while spells in the previousl line do absolutely nothing of the sort.</p><p>/sarcasm off</p></div>

[Hiro]

I never stated that it would solve all our agro problems but agressiv stated that they add a buff to put on the MT to hold agro which we already have a few. Our agro is still messed as it is but instead of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about it try and find solutions insteaad of adding more problems. I like to think of it this way the more spells we get the more chance SOE has to screw them up<div></div>

[Riversideblues]

<div></div><div></div>aww, poor babyso you don't get all your agro issues taken away, why not instead play smarter than just whine at someone who tried to answered agressives question spagma<p>Message Edited by Riversideblues on <span class="date_text">02-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:51 PM</span></p>

[Spag]

<div></div><div></div><div><div>He did not try to answer anything, he was blatently insulting.  QFE below:</div><div> </div><div><blockquote><hr>Hiro32 wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div> Before you start making posts about needing more to reduce hate read your spells and try and find solutions</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>I can easily avoid aggro by not doing anything but that does not make me productive.  The problem is where the the productive and aggro lines cross is much further below where it needs to be.    The issue is that spell line basically does nothing for aggro control, and is simply a small damage proc.  I still have it up on my MT, but don't expect anything from it.    He makes it sound like its the end all be all aggro reduction.  Though I again as I stated I don't have that spell, but the previous versions in that line are about as productive as your post.</div></div><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class="date_text">02-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:38 PM</span></p>

[Riversideblues]

agreed, it isnt super fair that the aoe sorc doesnt get a smaller, but aoe concussive spell, well, let's see what lu 19 brings us <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>