Proper use of Concussive

[Oakbr]

OK, I've seen 2-3 posts recently talking about people trying to use Concussive AFTER pulling aggro.  People are upset because they die anyway.  I regard this as a practical demonstation of Norrathian Darwinism.If you're not casting Concussive until you've already pulled aggro, you deserve to die.  Spell is not designed to be used that way.You use Concussive to keep from pulling aggro in the first place.  As an example, on incoming, throw out your Maelstrom debuff line first to let the tank get some aggro, then a nuke--then Concussive--then nuke again to trigger the deaggro effect.  After that initial series, continue to recast Concussive (followed by a nuke) every time it refreshes until the mob/encounter is dead.

[ArivenGemini]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Oakbrow wrote:OK, I've seen 2-3 posts recently talking about people trying to use Concussive AFTER pulling aggro.  People are upset because they die anyway.  I regard this as a practical demonstation of Norrathian Darwinism.If you're not casting Concussive until you've already pulled aggro, you deserve to die.  Spell is not designed to be used that way.You use Concussive to keep from pulling aggro in the first place.  As an example, on incoming, throw out your Maelstrom debuff line first to let the tank get some aggro, then a nuke--then Concussive--then nuke again to trigger the deaggro effect.  After that initial series, continue to recast Concussive (followed by a nuke) every time it refreshes until the mob/encounter is dead.<hr></blockquote>yeah thats pretty much what I started doing.. especially just before I drop a big AOE... it seems to work fairly well as long as I am not impatient with that first AOE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Max122]

<div>What I do on named encounters on raids is str/int debuff, maelstrom then our 3 dots and aura of emptiness.  Then I will use concussive with a nuke and start in on dps at a steady pace.  those 5 or 6 spells I think is a good build up on aggro and definelty more than the deaggro makes go away.  Only 1 debuff might not be enough to make the spell use its full potential.</div>

[Spag]

<div>You can use it after you get aggro as well, and cast little nukes, to trigger it but its far less effective, but can work.   I definitely recommend tossing it in after the first nuke or so, and over and over again shortly after it comes back up. </div><div> </div><div>This however does not help with AE.  If they made this affect every mob that takes damage, it would be perfect.</div>

[Dreadwalk]

Not to mention other dps classes get a concentration deaggro .  so while they continue dpsing we have to stop to cast this spell only dropping us further behind.<div></div>

[VeraIkonica]

<div></div><div></div>yes conc works great on one target but I never have had problems with the one the tank has targeted.  The question I have about this spell is the fact that you do not cast it on a target...you cast it on yourself..for example if your target dies before timer runs out the effect stays up till you hit another target or time runs out.  So if you cast this spell and then cast an aoe which target does it reduce your hate on? <p>Message Edited by VeraIkonica on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:01 PM</span></p>

[Worrick]

<div>It reduces hate only to your current target, if you use an AE it reduces hate on the ONE mob you targeted to cast that AE. If you target the tank to nuke his target you reduce how much the tank hates you. And since the tank is probably a PC it means he will buy you chocolate next time he sees you, but the creature you are fighting still wants you dead.</div>

[VeraIkonica]

Ok I reread my post this morning I misworded it.  I actually meant AOE no targets selected.<div></div>

[Victicu]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Oakbrow wrote: I regard this as a practical demonstation of Norrathian Darwinism.<hr><p>hah, i like that :smileyvery-happy:</p></blockquote>

[TheBladesCaress]

Fighting a group of 5 mobs.... from pull with no watiting...MaelstromConcussiveDevastationNil AbsolutionDark Nebula.Still no aggro.  That suggest to me that Concussive works on AE just as well as a single.<div></div>

[D-lirium]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>TheBladesCaress wrote:Fighting a group of 5 mobs.... from pull with no watiting...MaelstromConcussiveDevastationNil AbsolutionDark Nebula.Still no aggro.  That suggest to me that Concussive works on AE just as well as a single.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I am wondering this, don't you need to have agro BEFORE you cast concussive? I mean, how can you decrease it when you have none built up... the agro gained from Maelstrom is next to nothing. With your order of spells it would mean that agro can either go into negative numbers OR the spell that triggers the effect (Devastation) does not increase agro on the next DOT ticks.Sure both options are possible, but I don't know... it seems unlikely to me.  I will try and test the exact order you posted over the next couple of days and see if that works as you say.</span></div>

[Fumbles]

<div></div>Concussion does not apply aggro reduction to all mobs hit with AE after the cast, I always peel off mobs from the MT if I try to use Dev after Con on group encounters.

[Spag]

<div></div><div><strike>best thing to do, that I seem to have noticed is to distribute the aggro reduction.  Cast concussive, and then target a different NPC on each of the next 3 damage spells (AE or not). </strike></div><div><strike></strike> </div><div>I guess simply targetting the mob(s) the tank was not focussed on is what I was noticing.</div><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:18 PM</span></p>

[Fumbles]

<div></div>Um, how do you distribute aggro reduction? once you cast concussive, it applies its reduction when you land the next spell, It does not stay active past that, so all spells hitting subsequent mobs will land for full hate. 

[Spag]

<div></div><div></div><div>I thought that I read that it decreases agro on the targeted mob on the following 3 attacks, unless of course I am on crack, which may and truely be the case.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:09 PM</span></p>

[Dejah]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div>It's single target, the spell description even specifies the reduction on the opponent you have targetted.<hr></blockquote><p>I don't have the spell description in front of me, but I believe the description of Concussive says it reduces hate with the target of the next spell.  The target for AE spells is the encounter, so if you use an AE after Concussive it affects the entire encounter. </p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div>I tested this out a bit last night, casting concussive while targetting one of the off targets, and then casting an AE.  Immediately pulled aggro from the rest of the encounter, except the one I had targetted and and the one the tank had targetted. <hr></blockquote><p>This happened because you're still doing too much damage, concussive is working in this case.  In the same situation, if you had targetted a different mob in the encounter, you still would have pulled aggro from everything in the encounter except the one that tank had targetted because only that mob is getting the single target taunts of the tank.EDIT: typo</p><p>Message Edited by Dejah on <span class="date_text">01-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:07 AM</span></p>

[Fumbles]

<div></div><p>After reading what others have said on the subject, I did some new tests. I found that if you use your AE debuff, cuncussive, then devistation, all mobs will receive the hate reduction. I also tested this with one mob out of range of the debuff, cast concussive then devistation and the one who did not get the debuff beelined me after second tick.</p><p>I also tested doing single target damage on one mob in the encounter followed by ae debuff/con/dev and did not draw aggro from the remaining encounter. I had the tank targeting the big bad of the group, and I would drop some dd's/dots then debuff/con/dev. This worked great for me.</p><p> </p>

[Sevm]

<div>I had been using Concussive before any spells - actually before combat -  (thinking that if my next spell did 1000 hate then it would reduce the hate from that spell).  Because it requires a hostile spell to work means the hostile spell hits first then hate reduction.</div>

[Spag]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div>It's single target, the spell description even specifies the reduction on the opponent you have targetted.<hr></blockquote><p>I don't have the spell description in front of me, but I believe the description of Concussive says it reduces hate with the target of the next spell.  The target for AE spells is the encounter, so if you use an AE after Concussive it affects the entire encounter. </p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I read it as the target being the mob you have targetted, not the encounter that he belongs to.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div>I tested this out a bit last night, casting concussive while targetting one of the off targets, and then casting an AE.  Immediately pulled aggro from the rest of the encounter, except the one I had targetted and and the one the tank had targetted. <hr></blockquote><p>This happened because you're still doing too much damage, concussive is working in this case.  In the same situation, if you had targetted a different mob in the encounter, you still would have pulled aggro from everything in the encounter except the one that tank had targetted because only that mob is getting the single target taunts of the tank.</p><hr></blockquote><p>If this is the case then why didn't the mob I had targetted (which was not the mob the tank had targetted) come running to me as well?  If it does affect the entire encount, it splits the total hate reduction among them rather than removing the total amount from each.  The order in which I did this was, EE (encounter effect) nox debuff - Chaotic Malstrom, AE (point blank area effect) DoT - Suffocating Cloud, EE nuke with added stunn - Grievous Blast, followed by our large EE nuke - Null Absolution.  Its possibly had more hate than concussive could remove, but again the one I had targeted and the ^^^ the tank had targetted did not turn on me, but the others did, and they did not do so until Null Absolution, which was was the first spell after concussion.  The tank was also a pally, and had attonement on me.  I guess its possible I just happened to hit the other mobs for a higher amount of damage than the one I had targetted, as the entire encounter does not take the same amount of damage as a whole. </p>

[Dejah]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div>It's single target, the spell description even specifies the reduction on the opponent you have targetted.<hr></blockquote><p>I don't have the spell description in front of me, but I believe the description of Concussive says it reduces hate with the target of the next spell.  The target for AE spells is the encounter, so if you use an AE after Concussive it affects the entire encounter. </p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I read it as the target being the mob you have targetted, not the encounter that he belongs to.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Here's what the spell effect says:</p><p>"On a successful hostile spell this spell will cast Concussion on target of spell."</p><p>It has nothing to do with what you have targetted when you cast Concussive (as casting it with no target will show you).</p><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div>I tested this out a bit last night, casting concussive while targetting one of the off targets, and then casting an AE.  Immediately pulled aggro from the rest of the encounter, except the one I had targetted and and the one the tank had targetted. <hr></blockquote><p>This happened because you're still doing too much damage, concussive is working in this case.  In the same situation, if you had targetted a different mob in the encounter, you still would have pulled aggro from everything in the encounter except the one that tank had targetted because only that mob is getting the single target taunts of the tank.</p><hr></blockquote><p>If this is the case then why didn't the mob I had targetted (which was not the mob the tank had targetted) come running to me as well?  If it does affect the entire encount, it splits the total hate reduction among them rather than removing the total amount from each.  The order in which I did this was, EE (encounter effect) nox debuff - Chaotic Malstrom, AE (point blank area effect) DoT - Suffocating Cloud, EE nuke with added stunn - Grievous Blast, followed by our large EE nuke - Null Absolution.  Its possibly had more hate than concussive could remove, but again the one I had targeted and the ^^^ the tank had targetted did not turn on me, but the others did, and they did not do so until Null Absolution, which was was the first spell after concussion.  The tank was also a pally, and had attonement on me.  I guess its possible I just happened to hit the other mobs for a higher amount of damage than the one I had targetted, as the entire encounter does not take the same amount of damage as a whole. </p><hr></blockquote><p>Sorry, I misread what you said before.  Read it as the mob you had targetted was the same mob the tank had targetted.  I still stand behind my own tests though.  I had very limited variables in my test, as I was specifically testing the functionallity of the spell.  I suggest you test it yourself.  "Testing" it in a real fight situation isn't ideal because there are a number of variables that could effect the outcome, such as all the mobs not arriving at the tank at the same time. </p>

[Dejah]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Geoff77 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Darkcreator wrote:<div></div><p>Even if what you say is true it WILL NOT wipe all the hate from devastation. Because devastation is a DoT and the reduction will only be applied on the first tic. Each subsequent tic will give full agro. Since you can't have negative hate its a waste to cast it before devastation if you haven't cast another damage spell first or had prior agro greater than the amount reduced.</p><p>And I still don't think it works on AoE.</p><hr></blockquote>Concussive reduces aggro on the next spell cast.  I'm fairly certain it works on all tics of devastation.  And it most certainly works on AoE's.  I've noticed a very huge change in my pulling aggro during raids after casting Nil Ab or Dev, when I've cast Concussive before hand. <hr></blockquote><p>I finally got around to testing the idea that concussive works on proc ticks.  Short answer: no.</p><p>I had a friend group with me and melee hit a mob for minimal damage.  For my base test, I casted my lvl 59 dot Fiery Convulsions (82-153 dmg every 2 seconds) on the mob and after the first tick the mob switched to me.  I had to make sure 1 tick would be enough.  Then for the real test we did the same thing, except I cast Concussive before casting my dot.  The result was that I pulled aggro on the second tick of the dot.</p><p>I did other tests with dots as well.  I had my friend hit the mob, and then I cast my dot on it, pulling aggro.  While my dot was active, I casted Concussive.  When my dot ticked it did not activate Concussive.</p><p>One final note though, Wizards have another dot like spell called Surging Tempest.  It's not like a normal dot though, because every tick is actually considered a new spell being cast.  The description of the spell fits this behavior (it says something along the lines of "Casts Surging Tempest on target; lasts 8 seconds.  On termination casts Surging Tempest on target".  A tick from Surging Tempest will trigger Concussive.  i.e. if I cast Concussive, and Surging Tempest ticks before I cast a hostile spell, the Surging Tempest tick will trigger Concussive.  Warlocks may have dots that behave this way too.</p></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><div></div></blockquote><p>If this is the case then why didn't the mob I had targetted (which was not the mob the tank had targetted) come running to me as well?  If it does affect the entire encount, it splits the total hate reduction among them rather than removing the total amount from each.  The order in which I did this was, EE (encounter effect) nox debuff - Chaotic Malstrom, AE (point blank area effect) DoT - Suffocating Cloud, EE nuke with added stunn - Grievous Blast, followed by our large EE nuke - Null Absolution.  Its possibly had more hate than concussive could remove, but again the one I had targeted and the ^^^ the tank had targetted did not turn on me, but the others did, and they did not do so until Null Absolution, which was was the first spell after concussion.  <b>The tank was also a pally, and had attonement on me.</b>  I guess its possible I just happened to hit the other mobs for a higher amount of damage than the one I had targetted, as the entire encounter does not take the same amount of damage as a whole.</p><hr></blockquote>There is some discussion in a couple forums how a pallys atonement is acting wonky when stacked with other de-hate skills (such as the swashy one)    try the test without the atonement to see if it changes..Also, taunts can get resisted, and a AOE taunt can get resisted by a single mob of an entire bunch (same as other aoe spells can get resisted by one)....  so in theory it still can fit within the behavior of an encounter based deagro by concussive..  I am not arguing either way though, I haven't tested it much...  just saying we need a larger sample without the potential wonkyness of atonement added to a different deagro spell..</span></div>

[Spag]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Sorry, I misread what you said before.  Read it as the mob you had targetted was the same mob the tank had targetted.  I still stand behind my own tests though.  I had very limited variables in my test, as I was specifically testing the functionallity of the spell.  I suggest you test it yourself.  "Testing" it in a real fight situation isn't ideal because there are a number of variables that could effect the outcome, such as all the mobs not arriving at the tank at the same time. </blockquote><hr></blockquote>I can see why testing it in a vaccuum would be good, but if it does not perform in a real fight the way it does in a vaccuum, then why bother?  I am not planning on giving up testing this until I am sure one way or another.  I still use it as if it will affect the encounter.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><blockquote><hr>Ariven wrote:<div><span>try the test without the atonement to see if it changes..</span></div><hr></blockquote>Will try to do this tonight.</div>

[Dejah]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Sorry, I misread what you said before.  Read it as the mob you had targetted was the same mob the tank had targetted.  I still stand behind my own tests though.  I had very limited variables in my test, as I was specifically testing the functionallity of the spell.  I suggest you test it yourself.  "Testing" it in a real fight situation isn't ideal because there are a number of variables that could effect the outcome, such as all the mobs not arriving at the tank at the same time. </blockquote><hr></blockquote>I can see why testing it in a vaccuum would be good, but if it does not perform in a real fight the way it does in a vaccuum, then why bother?  I am not planning on giving up testing this until I am sure one way or another.  I still use it as if it will affect the encounter.</div><hr></blockquote></div><p>I'm guessing that you started your fight by casting Concussive first, followed by Devastation.  If this is the case, and lets say Devastation hits every mob for 800dmg on the first tick, then Concussive is triggered on the mobs and negates the hate from the 800dmg hits, however, the rest of Devestation's ticks go off with no further hate reducation.   This method of using Concussive wastes the hate reduction, as Concussive at lvl 60 can reduce hate upwards to 1800 per target. </p><p>As a wizard, when I want to do massive AE dmg but not pull aggro and die, I kick on my Icebound Gift (12 sec group spell proc), cast Icy Wind (mini-Devastation), and then I cast Concussive, followed by other AE Shocking Flash.  By the time Shocking Flash hits my Icy Wind has been ticking for 6 seconds so I've done over 2k in dmg and none of the hate reduction is wasted.</p><p>What I'm trying to illustrate is that casting Concussive before doing any damage is most likely a waste, unless its a direct damage spell that does more damage than the hate Concussive reduces.  Warlocks, being crazy AE dps, might not be able to get away with casting Devastation first, followed by Concussive and another AE, as Devastation ticks for more dmg and at a faster rate than the wizard AE.  There's a good chance you could pull aggro before you even get a chance to cast Concussive and another AE. </p><p>(If you were already doing this, I apoligize.  I'm not trying to tell you how to play your class.  Just trying to help).</p>

[Spag]

<div></div><div><div>You are incorrect in your guess.  I am only now a lvl 43 warlock (sig not updated yet) and do not have devistation.  I posted the order of the spells I cast in a previous post.  I had cast a EE debuff, AE DoT, EE nuke+stun, and then concussive, followed by large EE nuke.</div><div> </div><div>If I dont cast concussive I generally pull aggro upon casting our large EE nuke (absolution line), so I cast concussive prior to casting this spell, and it still peels most of the encounter to me.  I dont lead off with anything big as I try to give the tank enough time to buildup some hate.</div><div> </div><div>This leads me to believe that either it does not work for the encounter, or that the hate reduction is distributed throughout the encounter instead of the total being reduced from each mob.  In either case its not enough to keep them from turning on me.</div><div> </div><div>I did this again last night in PF, with a zerker as a tank.  We were taking pairs of ^^ heroics.  Using the same order of spells, if I targetted the off mob, and cast concussive I never drew aggro.  If I targetted the same mob as the tank, I always pulled aggro upon casting Absolution, with the exception of the 2 times the first mob died mid cast of Absolution, requiring me to retarget, and begin recasting.  By then the tank had also targetted the 2nd mob, and began aggro control directly on him.</div><div> </div><div>I will continue testing.</div></div>

[Dejah]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote:<div></div><div><div> </div><div>This leads me to believe that either it does not work for the encounter, or that the hate reduction is distributed throughout the encounter instead of the total being reduced from each mob. <hr></div></div></blockquote><p>I haven't done a test to see if the hate reduction is distributed throughout the encounter.  I have been assuming that it works like other spell procs.  I'll test this out later when I get a chance.</p><p>EDIT: typo</p><p>Message Edited by Dejah on <span class="date_text">01-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:54 PM</span></p>

[VeraIkonica]

This thread really helped me with boosting my DPS I have been parsing a lot recently and ever since I found this thread it has doubled.  Concussive definatley works on the encounter...I also think that it works per tick for instance on a certain epic encounter I did 50,000 damage total and never got aggro at all this was about 5 times the total damage anyone else did.  I started with debuffs > concussion > devestation> nil absolution> dark nebula > abysmal fury it was [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing awsome like some kind of orange exsplosion above the encounters heads.......now if only only we can get rid of poison immunities.<span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Bjerde]

<div></div>I have a level 41 warlock, and I am using the same spells you are pretty much. I haven't tested this out yet, but I am thinking you are doing too much damange for one hate-reducing spell. You are using all your big guns together.You wrote your lineup was:EE debuff - Debuffs create lots of aggroAE DoT - This spell pulls aggro like mad cause it ticks every secondEE Nuke+Stun - This should be okConcussiveEE Nuke - The one you really want to testI am curious if you get the same results if you do not use AE DoT (Suffocating Cloud).Or just try this? The following would guarentee aggro without Concussive on any groupEE Nuke+Stun (Grievous Blast)ConcussiveEE Nuke - (Nil Distortion)Gorilla41 Halfling Warlock<div></div><p>Message Edited by Bjerde on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:58 PM</span></p>

[Dyshar]

<div>Ok i have stated this in another post like this on Concussive, this test should work for anyone that has their netheros pet.</div><div> </div><div>1.Find a grey group</div><div>2. Pull the group with your aoe stun</div><div>3. Cast Netheros</div><div>4. Wait like 2 secs</div><div>5. Cast concussive</div><div>6. Cast your aoe debuff</div><div>7. Watch as the group turns from you and attacks your Netheros pet.</div><div> </div><div> I have tested this many times and i get the same results, try not to cast your concussive on pull as i dont think you can go into the negatives on the aggro list.  On raids i usually cast like this: I wait for the assist call then i cast either my aoe stun or netheros (depends on the mob), then i usually cast all my dots, then concussive in combination with an aoe spell ( the aoe debuff works) then i go to town. </div><div> </div><div>Just remember you still cant/should not chain cast aoe spells, Concussive is not meant to be a cure all, you still have to watch your aggro =P</div><div> </div><div>Thats just my 2cp</div>

[Spag]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bjerde wrote:<div></div>I have a level 41 warlock, and I am using the same spells you are pretty much. I haven't tested this out yet, but I am thinking you are doing too much damange for one hate-reducing spell. You are using all your big guns together.You wrote your lineup was:EE debuff - Debuffs create lots of aggroAE DoT - This spell pulls aggro like mad cause it ticks every secondEE Nuke+Stun - This should be okConcussiveEE Nuke - The one you really want to testI am curious if you get the same results if you do not use AE DoT (Suffocating Cloud).Or just try this? The following would guarentee aggro without Concussive on any groupEE Nuke+Stun (Grievous Blast)ConcussiveEE Nuke - (Nil Distortion)Gorilla41 Halfling Warlock<div></div><p>Message Edited by Bjerde on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:58 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I can try that, but ask yourself if that should be the case.  What good is the aggro reduction if it still wont let me use my current best spell without drawing aggro?  I have also positioned this spell last in the line up so that it would give the tank time to build up as much hate as possible rather than starting out with it.  If I am to perform the test you mentioned, I will have cast, what I believe you mean to refer to is the Abolution line, within 8 seconds of the onset of the encounter which by itself might pull aggro.  If I wait a few seconds to start, that would defeat the purpose entirely.  This also removes the debuff which is most effective when used before casting vs after.  The arrangement of spells I use while not the optimum for recast timers, tends to allow me to pull aggro as late in the encounter as possible, though only allowing me to usually get one cast of the absolution line off in any given encounter.</p><p>I feel that we need a more effective aggro reducer, or aggro redirect.  I dont think that a 1 conc slot 20% aggro redirect buff is out of the question, especially given the lack of utility we have.</p>

[Spag]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dyshar wrote:<div> </div><div>Just remember you still cant/should not chain cast aoe spells, Concussive is not meant to be a cure all, you still have to watch your aggro =P</div><hr></blockquote><p>I understand this, but I don't feel that casting 3 damage spells is chain casting.  We are designed to be EE, they should give us the tools to be effective EE. </p>

[HomeChicken]

<div>i dont know how this works as a warlock, but as a wizard, concussive + aoe spell = all mobs detaunted, i have tested this many times, and for a wizard, with my aoes it procs off every mob i hit, not just which mob i target</div><div>/shrugs</div><div>you may wanna test it</div>

[Spag]

<div></div><div></div><p>Let me guess, you skipped to the end to post? </p><p>Many of us have tested this with varying results.  I am at the point where I am suspecting that it works AE but is divided equally among the mobs affected.  Thus the larger the group, the less effective the aggro reduction.  This could explain why the tests show differring results.</p><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 PM</span></p>

[Fumbles]

<div></div>My basic conclusion is It does work on AE hits and will reduce the same amount across all targets. However, if you use a AE dot without generating any other hate prior to concussive it will only reduce the hate of the first tick.  What is wierd to me is if I cast concussive and follow with devistation, I will get aggro on second tick, if I debuff, cuncussive, devistation, it will effectivly negate the hate generated by devistation.

[VeraIkonica]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Fumbles wrote:<div></div>My basic conclusion is It does work on AE hits and will reduce the same amount across all targets. However, if you use a AE dot without generating any other hate prior to concussive it will only reduce the hate of the first tick.  What is wierd to me is if I cast concussive and follow with devistation, I will get aggro on second tick, if I debuff, cuncussive, devistation, it will effectivly negate the hate generated by devistation.<hr></blockquote><p>I think the reason that happens is because the debuffs generate hate so by the time devastation starts ticking you get the full concussive effect.   This is only a guess why it works but I think if you have no hate to reduce when concussive first goes off then the spell has nothing to reduce so it dies.</p><p>for example concussive is cast.....DD spell is cast first concussive reduces whatever hate you have aquired then damage is appied to target .....soooo...... debuff cast (generates hate), concussive cast, devestation cast(concussive removes hate generated by dubuffs then first tick does damage, on second tick concussive removes hate generated by first tick then does damage, and so on).</p><p>Anyway that is the best way I know to describe how I think that works.</p><p>Message Edited by VeraIkonica on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:25 PM</span></p>

[cultus_fer]

<div></div><p>yes, concussive is an amazing spell.    and yes, it works on all encountered mobs.    but unless your MT has adequately established hate with all, you are still going to pull the others.    be mindful of the amount of damage we do.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Fumbles]

<div></div>A good tip is to make sure your tank pulls the toughest mob in the group, this allows you to unload a couple DDs on him then work the previouslly mentioned formula to knock out the encounter.