Let's try it one more time ... Problems of the warlock class.

[d24e]

Since I bought Master I aura of emptiness (and thwart/boundless fury/dark infestation/nil absolution/null distortion maII) I can pull aggro with single target dps spells during a raid so I'm no longer sore towards the scouts in my guild. I just hate the cast times because it's so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] boring. I wish they just did all spells instant without recast timers and gave mobs tons more hitpoints to compensate, so it plays more like Diablo 2. Now there's an awesome combat system.<div></div>

[Heart's Rage]

<div></div><div></div><p>The way i see it, and only speaking raid wise cause i dont care about dinkey little solo and heroics baby stuff.</p><p>Damage done by AE Consistintly, all the time, every day no, matter what situation. Should go like this, best to worst out of Teir 1 DPS.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Warlock > Ranger > Wizard > Assassin</font> ..................No questions asked.</p><p>Damage done Directly Consistintly, all the time, every day no, matter what situation. Should go like this, best to worst out of Teir 1 DPS.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Assassin > Wizard > Ranger > Warlock</font> .................No questions asked.</p><p>The way Direct damage feels now.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Assasin > Wizard > Ranger > Necro > Conj > Swashy > Brigand > Bruiser > Monk > Illusionist (yes they have procs) > Warlock > Heavy tanks and healers.</font></p><p>Yes we can pull aggro, Aggro doesnt equall damage, Healers pull Aggro and dont nuke, Yes we are broken, is it fixable? Yes. Is any Developer gonna fix it? Who knows.</p><p>What should be changed? Well possibly Casting times, Lets give us a nice AE De-aggro, Not that we didn't appreciate the single target one, but you really didnt give us nice Direct damage spells to compliment it. How bout spice things up and make us dps. Dont try to fluff us up with little utility spells, if we wanted evac we would have made scouts, if we want to help peoples power we would have made a chanter, to be honest most of us dont care and the only reason we ask for any utility because asking for some of the other stuff doesnt really seem to be working, We made Warlocks, To nuke stuff and that is what our calling is, and that is what we would like to do.</p><p> </p><p>P.S. if there are warlocks ranting in the forums, 50% of the time they are making great points, and the other 50% they are ranting so no one gets any funny ideas about nerfing us somemore.</p><p> </p><p>Cosmic ~ Warlock of the 60th Plague</p><p>Iconoclast -  Permafrost</p><p>Message Edited by Heart's Rage on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:58 PM</span></p>

[Rha]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>im really fed up with this game</p><p>first i stopped playin my SK since lu16 nerfed em totally    tankin is impossible now</p><p>then i started to level my warlock from 28-60 in less than a month, thought it would be fun on raids and in groups </p><p>well now i have the feeling the warlock is the next toon i retire cause its gettin more and more impossible to do our job really</p><p>warlock is no mana battery (btw Bards have a better mana regen now) wer [Removed for Content] the mage assassins just born to destroy everything and kill everything without mercy</p><p> </p><p>and i hate it when ppl like moorgard promising us we would be the top tier dps , the kings of aoe in the game</p><p>and other classes come along and outdps us in multiple encounter situations (im speaking about serious raiding)  like conjurors do for example they have pets there is really no reason to give em an encounter dot which is almost equal to Devastation</p><p>2 sec casting time 40 sec reuse  3k dmg on mobs deals dmg every second for 8 seconds</p><p>4 sec casting time on devastation with a little more dmg every 1.5sec for 6 seconds</p><p>furies (healer lol) have an impressive aoe nuke not as good as we have with DN or NA but its still high damage , i read some months ago classes after revamp will more do what they were supposed to do  - laugh</p><p>I still have no clue why casting times are longer now , reuse is ok but how ineffective are we if we cast a spell and b4 castin is done the mob is dead</p><p>reduce our cast timers again or let the spell land on the remaining mobs( warlock king of aoe dps) and not let us cast it again 2-4 sec thats just retarted</p><p>really no idea why a mage cant land spells when one mob of a group is dead we have targeted , i dont want an unbreakable root again that was no challenge predof to play a warlock   but im not feelin like the mage they announced we would be </p><p>and really mages should deal more dmg than a melee class with medium armor we wear very light and thats the reason why we should rule in dps</p><p>we do less dmg and gain more hate than any scout in raid situations , just died twice today after usin Devastation (I didnt nuke mobs with anything else)</p><p>and had 3 of the 5 encounters on me  tank was a guardian with a Dirge in the MT group and i waited around 15sec b4 i started castin</p><p>no scout has got aggro with an equal or higher dmg output , this is really annoying to see others go in full throttle and u have to stay behind the line</p><p> </p><p>btw warlocks dont have problems with running oop atm , happened only in Poets Palace the Return that i had my power bar down to 20%  yeeepeee that was what i wanted  a reason to use my useless hp to mana convert ( not the feed , the selfcast only 266 mana ooh yeah thats great)</p><p>Another Awesome Spell is Shadowed Pillaging not to forget Corrupt Gift(60) lol (summoner gets a  new scout pet : high dps)</p><p>ok Chanters suckin too but they have their utils we just have our dmg nothin else</p><p> </p><p><span class="time_text">oh and please remove that stupid int cap since it increases our damage ,440 is the max thats a joke , i have 360 without any buff of another class and if a fury buffs me up to 600 int (wizard int buff included) id like to deal damage like a mage with 600 and not like one with 440  </span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Rhaas on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:24 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Rhaas on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:13 AM</span></p>

[eugenius]

I don't raid that much, so I can't speak as a raiding warlock (although I can definitely agree that our single target DPS is pathetic for a tier 1 DPS class).  As a regular soloing/grouping level 60 warlock, I can say that I'm still enjoying the class despite the LU13 overhaul and other changes.  But, I've said it before and I'll say it again - the only thing that still annoys me are the cast times, and I am confident that my enjoyment will increase at least twofold if the cast times on our primary AOE and single target nukes are reduced even if by just <i>one</i> measly second.  Of course, there are other issues with our class (there always have been and always will be), but come one, this is one simple adjustment.<div></div>

[Rha]

<div></div><div></div><p>forget it theyll never change the cast timers again</p><p>but please let us our 3 and 4 sec AoEs land even if the targeted mob is dead before the spell is casted</p><p>if that is too hard for u to code ( im a coder myself ) then reduce the cast times</p><p>if ur not willing to do that please let the spell land on mobs that are still alive even if its only one but please let it land ,  like i said b4 thats annoying</p><p>Message Edited by Rhaas on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:18 AM</span></p>

[Admh]

<div>Before the game came out, everyone had the mentality of a warlock being kings of DoT's, however, this was changed to king of AE's.  I agree on all of your opinions. Concussion doesn't even come to par to some of your spells considering it can only mitigate the 1st tick of your massive dot AE.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Styk]

<div></div><p>I retired my 60 berserker and started a warlock and he is now 60 so i can offer more to my guild on raids ( we had too many tanks on raids so 4 of us made new toons ) Now i find that AE's take too long to cast, Im getting crushed in DPS by summoners ( im not gonna hate but man ) i pull agro too fast ( i can understand if our dps is that good but its not )</p><p>SoE [Removed for Content]? Are sorcerers gonna get some love ? ( wizards btw are suffering the same dps issue as us )</p>

[Araxes]

<span><blockquote><hr>Heart's Rage wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>P.S. if there are warlocks ranting in the forums, 50% of the time they are making great points, and the other 50% they are ranting so no one gets any funny ideas about nerfing us somemore.</p><hr></blockquote><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Best thing I've read this week.</span><div></div>

[Max122]

<div>Rhaas I dont know what you mean by SKs being broke.  Our MT on raids is 99% of the time our SK she kicks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and we have had many server kills with the SK at the helm.  So maybe you dont know what you are doing or she is one of the few who do.</div>

[Rha]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Id really like to know what u guys raiding</p><p>im speaking of the high level t6 content , really wanna know how to tank with crap taunts crap dps compared to other tank classes</p><p>crap reuse timers for taunts</p><p>tell me what u raiding cause i cannot believe that a SK is ur MT really like to know how he maintains aggro longer than 10sec</p><p>even if u use a dirge there is no way to keep aggro for the whole fight duration</p><p>brawlers maintain aggro better now</p><p>oh btw the only sk we had left the guild cause he felt useless on raids and my guild is not lookin for a replacement</p><p>btw i knew what im doin until lu16 went live after lu16 i had no idea what i have to do (and trust me  I was a kickass tank  predof and after combat revamp until lu16)</p><p>did MT job a few times , most of the time I was MA </p><p>most spells i used are m1</p><p>and do u tell ur dps to hold back fire ? well  try that in poets the return and u fail on the first named until ur equips to zero</p><p>the named himself is a [Removed for Content] he "just" drains power(6k)  but his friends have tons of hp and hit like trucks</p><p>and u will tell me ur SK is able to handle that and u get that mob down ?  the chance that i win the server lottery is higher than that will happen</p><p>it seems u guys have no idea what serious raiding is</p><p>the most oldworld stuff can be done by 2.5 groups now if ur good except  Rognok, Drayek they can almost  be done by one group</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>possible that u guys play a different version of eq2 on Unrest ^^</p><p>and please dont talk about classes u have never played</p><p>if u played one u wouldnt talk such a bs</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Rhaas on <span class="date_text">01-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:31 AM</span></p>

[pharacyde]

Well thx all for the input so far.Just want to say, I'd like to hear some more comment from raiding warlocks. Since the issues I posted where more about raid issues.As far as I am concerned the warlocks are pretty ok for solo'ing and normal grouping. We are defenately T1 dps there.<div></div>

[Max122]

<div></div><div></div><p>Well Rhaas how about all the mobs in every tier 6 raid.  Including sunchild, black queen, all the 65+ named in poets.  Every top end encounter in the game our SK tanks with amazing success and no issues what so ever.  Learn the class have some good group setup and very easy.</p><p>P.S. all this done with only 5 true healers usually with someone playing a very weakly geared alt at times if we desperately need a 6th healer.</p><p>Message Edited by Max122 on <span class="date_text">01-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:34 AM</span></p>

[Pentarum]

My main is a 57 Sk and my alt is a 55 warlock. Rhass you have no clue what your talking about if you think Sk's cant MT. I've MT'd just fine on raids and in fact I've had to take over for the guardians when they bite it and I last alot longer than they do with my reactive heals and lifetaps. (500 times X aoe lifetap rocks!) More than once I've seen a group say WOW when Im getting beat on by a bunch of mobs and I go from 20% hp to dam near full with one spell. Yes out of the possible MT's Sk's are probally not the best choice cause we have too many dot taunts but saying that we cant MT at all only goes to show you know nothing about the class. As for warlocks we badly need our casting times reduced even if its just from 3-2 or 4-3 sec. Im so sick of the mobs being half dead before I can land a debuff and start casting Deve or a DD.<div></div>

[Talonis]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>pharacyde wrote:Well thx all for the input so far.Just want to say, I'd like to hear some more comment from raiding warlocks. Since the issues I posted where more about raid issues.As far as I am concerned the warlocks are pretty ok for solo'ing and normal grouping. We are defenately T1 dps there.<div></div><hr></blockquote>As a raiding Warlock, my biggest problem is the spells I am limited to using. Let's just say, for argument sake, about 2/3 of epic encounters have mezzable adds. This removes 5 spells from my rotation, including my main 2 class-defining spells. So I am left with 4 single target DD's and 3 DoT's. One of those DD's is a grey lvl 35 spell...(I love you, Ice flame), and the other is a non-epic affecting stun (hence it is just another DD). If the encounter features a Mem-wipe component on the target, DoT's are also removed, but these encounters <i>typically</i> do not have adds, so I get to use 2 of my AE's as mana-expensive DD (Null Ab & Dark Neb), lol. Thanks devs for giving me one serviceable Disease based spell, a 1K-ish DoT. The 'IN' thing to do for T5 was to give the epics WoF and make them Elemental resistant. Wizzies got ripped off. The T6 epic skill of the month is mem-wipe, far more noxious resistances, <u>and</u> coincided with the infamous LU13 changes. These combined have hurt us as well to some extent. We have adjusted alright to Warlocks ver 2.0, but got left behind in respect to some of our DPS-dealing brothers and sisters for other classes.I will never ask for a nerf on another class. I want to be improved to come inline with the top damge dealers. It is easier to improve a class that has more facets to their damage dealing capabilities when they have melee, combat art, and proc based damage. When you address a sorcerer, it is much more difficult because there is no melee aspect due to the inherent nature of the class. Compounded by the fact most procs are based on melee success, it becomes even harder to make adjustments without making the only damage component available (spells) way overpowered.It is my opinion (and a ton of others around the boards and in-game) that sorcerers CAN be balanced by introducing more spell-based and gear-based procs. Casting times should also be adjusted as well, as many of us have previously stated. Where are the caster 'Stance' spells? How about an Offensive stance that lets me go all out and burn the mother down and a 'Defensive' (Less Offensive? LOL) stance that reduces aggro for longer sustained fights. I give up asking for serviceable utility, so please make me do what I am supposed to do: Dump buckets of damage on my enemies as a Top Tier damage dealer...not third tier.More Disease based spells, please.If we are following suit, KoS should be Arcane-resist heavy right?Fix the freaking Broodlings. Enough already.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by GLScooby on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:09 PM</span></p>

[Sythre]

<div>Good thread OP :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>    My experience has been that the warlocks need the following:</div><div> </div><div>1.  Reduced cast times - targetted group mob dies before I can finish casting or I have cast too early for the tank and pull aggro.  Reducing the cast times could be paired with reducing the damage if that is seen as a balance problem.  As long as the damage stays exactly proportional, reducing the cast times would be a benefit.</div><div> </div><div>2.  AOE threat reduction spell/CA or proc - Yes we need this. SOEs post-LU13 policy on everyone in the group controlling aggro doesn't work as well for us as with other classes.  We need an AoE detaunt to be the true kings of AoE.</div><div> </div><div>3.  I would like to see reduced cast times on our debuffs.  As it is now I rarely use them.  These should be instacast or close to it to be really useful. (Im level 51)</div><div> </div><div>     In regular xp groups or small groupsI have been using my roots before I start dpsing on group mobs.  Basically, pick a target other than the one the tank has targetted.  Once the tank is surrounded, bony grasp, and nuke away.  Its really only useful against bigger groups of mobs due to the quickness of most fights, but it can come in handy to keep aggro off of me.  I think it helps illustrate the need for a AoE threat reducer as roots can cause unintended problems and don't work on the epics.</div>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GLScooby wrote:<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>pharacyde wrote:Well thx all for the input so far.Just want to say, I'd like to hear some more comment from raiding warlocks. Since the issues I posted where more about raid issues.As far as I am concerned the warlocks are pretty ok for solo'ing and normal grouping. We are defenately T1 dps there.<div></div><hr></blockquote>As a raiding Warlock, my biggest problem is the spells I am limited to using. Let's just say, for argument sake, about 2/3 of epic encounters have mezzable adds. This removes 5 spells from my rotation, including my main 2 class-defining spells. So I am left with 4 single target DD's and 3 DoT's. One of those DD's is a grey lvl 35 spell...(I love you, Ice flame), and the other is a non-epic affecting stun (hence it is just another DD). If the encounter features a Mem-wipe component on the target, DoT's are also removed, but these encounters <i>typically</i> do not have adds, so I get to use 2 of my AE's as mana-expensive DD (Null Ab & Dark Neb), lol. Thanks devs for giving me one serviceable Disease based spell, a 1K-ish DoT. The 'IN' thing to do for T5 was to give the epics WoF and make them Elemental resistant. Wizzies got ripped off. The T6 epic skill of the month is mem-wipe, far more noxious resistances, <u>and</u> coincided with the infamous LU13 changes. These combined have hurt us as well to some extent. We have adjusted alright to Warlocks ver 2.0, but got left behind in respect to some of our DPS-dealing brothers and sisters for other classes.I will never ask for a nerf on another class. I want to be improved to come inline with the top damge dealers. It is easier to improve a class that has more facets to their damage dealing capabilities when they have melee, combat art, and proc based damage. When you address a sorcerer, it is much more difficult because there is no melee aspect due to the inherent nature of the class. Compounded by the fact most procs are based on melee success, it becomes even harder to make adjustments without making the only damage component available (spells) way overpowered.It is my opinion (and a ton of others around the boards and in-game) that sorcerers CAN be balanced by introducing more spell-based and gear-based procs. Casting times should also be adjusted as well, as many of us have previously stated. Where are the caster 'Stance' spells? How about an Offensive stance that lets me go all out and burn the mother down and a 'Defensive' (Less Offensive? LOL) stance that reduces aggro for longer sustained fights. I give up asking for serviceable utility, so please make me do what I am supposed to do: Dump buckets of damage on my enemies as a Top Tier damage dealer...not third tier.More Disease based spells, please.If we are following suit, KoS should be Arcane-resist heavy right?Fix the freaking Broodlings. Enough already.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by GLScooby on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:09 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>You can cast any of your encounter based  damage spells (e.g. devastation, nil absolution, etc) in encounters where mobs are being mezzed as long as you wait until all of the mobs to be mezzed are mezzed and you don't target the mezzed mob.</p><p> </p>

[Talonis]

Thank you for pointing that fact out....But the duration on mez when applied to epic targets is usually random and inconsistent in it's duration. So casting Dev/Null Ab/DN after the mez hits can be just as deadly as casting it before. If the plan is to mez for an encounter, then the raid leader calls no AE...Some may disagree with this, but I don't break mez or get peels; because if mez is called I don't AE.<div></div>

[pharacyde]

<div>I think when the class and subclass stuff will come out we will get alot fixed about desease poison problems.</div><div> </div><div>This is why I think so. First of all. Right now we have heat cold (yeah from our sorcerer time) desease and poison spells. If from the start we are warlocks and not mage/sorcerers anymore we will get rid of those heat/codl spells and they will become desease poison based only. I hope the devs will be aware of this and do it the right way.</div><div> </div><div>For the casting times, they are hell. Not only for certain reasons we can only use some spells, but when we can use them all, we still cant use them all because of the huge casting times. I have said it before, melee classes can cast all their spells at once and have them all down. So they used all thier possible dps. We warlocks can not do that. We always at any moment in the battle have a choice of 2-3 spells to cast. This reduces alot of our dps potential.</div><div> </div><div>The other reason is said above. mobs die too fast and we can only cast a spell or two on normal group mobs.</div>

[pharacyde]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>GLScooby wrote:<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>pharacyde wrote:Well thx all for the input so far.Just want to say, I'd like to hear some more comment from raiding warlocks. Since the issues I posted where more about raid issues.As far as I am concerned the warlocks are pretty ok for solo'ing and normal grouping. We are defenately T1 dps there.<div></div><hr></blockquote>As a raiding Warlock, my biggest problem is the spells I am limited to using. Let's just say, for argument sake, about 2/3 of epic encounters have mezzable adds. This removes 5 spells from my rotation, including my main 2 class-defining spells. So I am left with 4 single target DD's and 3 DoT's. One of those DD's is a grey lvl 35 spell...(I love you, Ice flame), and the other is a non-epic affecting stun (hence it is just another DD). If the encounter features a Mem-wipe component on the target, DoT's are also removed, but these encounters <i>typically</i> do not have adds, so I get to use 2 of my AE's as mana-expensive DD (Null Ab & Dark Neb), lol. Thanks devs for giving me one serviceable Disease based spell, a 1K-ish DoT. The 'IN' thing to do for T5 was to give the epics WoF and make them Elemental resistant. Wizzies got ripped off. The T6 epic skill of the month is mem-wipe, far more noxious resistances, <u>and</u> coincided with the infamous LU13 changes. These combined have hurt us as well to some extent. We have adjusted alright to Warlocks ver 2.0, but got left behind in respect to some of our DPS-dealing brothers and sisters for other classes.I will never ask for a nerf on another class. I want to be improved to come inline with the top damge dealers. It is easier to improve a class that has more facets to their damage dealing capabilities when they have melee, combat art, and proc based damage. When you address a sorcerer, it is much more difficult because there is no melee aspect due to the inherent nature of the class. Compounded by the fact most procs are based on melee success, it becomes even harder to make adjustments without making the only damage component available (spells) way overpowered.It is my opinion (and a ton of others around the boards and in-game) that sorcerers CAN be balanced by introducing more spell-based and gear-based procs. Casting times should also be adjusted as well, as many of us have previously stated. Where are the caster 'Stance' spells? How about an Offensive stance that lets me go all out and burn the mother down and a 'Defensive' (Less Offensive? LOL) stance that reduces aggro for longer sustained fights. I give up asking for serviceable utility, so please make me do what I am supposed to do: Dump buckets of damage on my enemies as a Top Tier damage dealer...not third tier.More Disease based spells, please.If we are following suit, KoS should be Arcane-resist heavy right?Fix the freaking Broodlings. Enough already.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by GLScooby on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:09 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>You can cast any of your encounter based  damage spells (e.g. devastation, nil absolution, etc) in encounters where mobs are being mezzed as long as you wait until all of the mobs to be mezzed are mezzed and you don't target the mezzed mob.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Doing htat wouldn't be very power efficient <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You can beter use dd's then.

[Max122]

<div>Well scooby on encounters with usually 2 or 3 adds we got our chanters and a troub mezzing all the adds single target.  So we just hold off aeing till they got them locked down then its all systems go.  But in that situation I only cast devastation no use with absolution, distortion way more damage alot less power.</div><div> </div><div>I do aggree with what you are saying alot off good ideas there stances like that could really kick butt.  Specially if you could switch as fast as tanks can stay defensive on long epic named till say maybe last 15 to 10% then quick switch to offensive and watch that sucker die.  There definetly needs to be some balancing with all the different ways scouts can reduce aggro and we get one way which is ok at best.   Atleast summoners have their hate split some with their pets(which are doing insane damage now specially them mage pets).</div><div> </div><div>How can it be I do over 50% less damage than a conjuror on some fights I pull aggro on one of last few mobs up and die or come close to it when conjuror is standing unscathed.  Not saying anything wrong with conjuror dps or summoner in general just we desperately need some aggro reducing to help compensate.  Specially with another 10 levels around the corner cant imagine how much more the next versions of absolution and nebula will be doing.</div><div> </div><div>Give us some more options to lower hate and maybe add one into the advancement system.  That way it will help everyone for sure and dedicated Warlocks out there can bust our buts get the Advancement and be a ae nuking machine and clear these trash mobs in raids like i feel they should be cleared.</div><div> </div><div>P.S. Off topic make wicked gift line proc for other group members so wizards can get our pain they put us threw when they use stupid ice lash :smileyhappy: I have to lay off the aes even more with that again making us useless. </div>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Max122 wrote:<div>Well scooby on encounters with usually 2 or 3 adds we got our chanters and a troub mezzing all the adds single target.  So we just hold off aeing till they got them locked down then its all systems go.  But in that situation I only cast devastation no use with absolution, distortion way more damage alot less power.</div><div> </div><div>I do aggree with what you are saying alot off good ideas there stances like that could really kick butt.  Specially if you could switch as fast as tanks can stay defensive on long epic named till say maybe last 15 to 10% then quick switch to offensive and watch that sucker die.  There definetly needs to be some balancing with all the different ways scouts can reduce aggro and we get one way which is ok at best.   Atleast summoners have their hate split some with their pets(which are doing insane damage now specially them mage pets).</div><div> </div><div>How can it be I do over 50% less damage than a conjuror on some fights I pull aggro on one of last few mobs up and die or come close to it when conjuror is standing unscathed.  Not saying anything wrong with conjuror dps or summoner in general just we desperately need some aggro reducing to help compensate.  Specially with another 10 levels around the corner cant imagine how much more the next versions of absolution and nebula will be doing.</div><div> </div><div>Give us some more options to lower hate and maybe add one into the advancement system.  That way it will help everyone for sure and dedicated Warlocks out there can bust our buts get the Advancement and be a ae nuking machine and clear these trash mobs in raids like i feel they should be cleared.</div><div> </div><div>P.S. Off topic make wicked gift line proc for other group members so wizards can get our pain they put us threw when they use stupid ice lash :smileyhappy: I have to lay off the aes even more with that again making us useless. </div><hr></blockquote><p>There are lots of mobs that are immune to poison but not disease, for those situations Nil Absolution (which now does disease damage) is the highest damaging DD we have.</p><p> </p>

[Max122]

<div>True and I do use it on them as power is not a issue since we have little else to cast.  Specially since aura of emptiness is broken as well and makes a poison check to land on the mob then procs for disease.  Im talking mobs that all our spells hit I will not use nil absolution ever on a single target in that situation.  330ish power just isnt worth it to me.  Deva though since it hits for up to 3k more than absolution is still very much worth it.</div>

[kopingOwen]

The problem i see with warlocks... too heavy AoE´s without any tools to decrease aggroas of now you have long cast timers.. yeah but until you get any type to not pull aggro when those big AoE´s hit.. lower the cast timers = dead warlock possibly dead raid at the moment..maby put shorter timer on 1 of those aoe´s could work??/just want to add on the sk tanking endgame raidI´ve yet to see a SK with 12k hp in raid.... the aggro tools the Zerker have at their disposal and the defense buffs a Guard have.. Only raid boss i would see a SK mt is maby(maby!) Terrorantula..BTWstory: SC raid, killing those easy gnoll captains me and the rangers were jabbing around in grp chat and braging who got the highest dps (aka slacking) our warlock sees the opurtunity and start blast away.. parser warlock 1st place 2k dps me the rangers just stood there <span>:smileysurprised:</span><span> :smileysurprised:</span><span> :smileysurprised: like dumb [Removed for Content] first time i´ve been beaten on the dps by war"rock!" in SC guess we´ll let the warlock have some fun with those captains when we are there =)curse SC! only thing fun with that zone is the sentiels <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span>

[Mode]

<div>I agree with a few of the posters here..</div><div> </div><div>From my point of view however the main issues with Warlocks is agro. All the pet classes split their agro across themselves and thier pets with about 40% of their over all damage coming from their pet. Scouts all have excellent agro reducing skills built in to either their CA's or Utility. Sony took the right route and gave warlocks(sorcerers to be exact) a deagro spell and some pets that generate their own agro (DI and Netheros), however they broke the Dark Investation broodlings in LU18 and have not corrected it. Also the Netheros pet is not imune to AE's like the dumbfire pets the necros/conjorers etc etc.. have. I have seen a single necro's Dumbfire pets account for 48+k damage on a x4 raid target. This is the reason we are getting smoked in DPS not because our spells don't do enough damage. We don't need a DPS increase we need the spells already given to us tweaked to one, work like other casters pets do and two, do simalar damage on there own hate list.</div><div> </div><div>Now if everything was fixed like I have said Warlocks and Wizards would still have agro problems because when a pet dies it transfers all the hate it generated to the owner. This is not a problem for Necros and Conjurors becuase they are still spliting hate with there main pet at a 60/40 rate... So they can keep sending in dumbfire pets without fear of takeing agro, where as a warlock with it hate not split would take agro when the pets die. My recomendation would be to change the deagro spell you gave all sorcerers from the way it is now which reduces the hate of the next spell cast, to simply dropping the warlock 1 position in hate each time cast. Leave its cast time and recast timer the way it is now.</div><div> </div><div>We would still occasionaly be beaten in DPS by Necros, Conjurors, Assasins, and Rangers but only in those fights where power was the deciding factor... Which imo is the way it should be.</div><div> </div>

[Talonis]

<div></div>We simply do not currently have the tools necessary to be T1 dps. I don't think anyone will argue our ability to do damage to grouped mobs. Please note I say 'do damage'.In most situations of 6-man groups in overland areas taking on grouped mobs, we certainly can shine......if we target a different mob than the tank and manage to kill the entire encounter with our 4 AE's. This is not usually a problem in the average vanilla group encounter. I can take a few whacks from a heroic mob or two and survive until the encounter is defeated.[DISCLAIMER: I fully understand raiders are a minority and do not reflect the class as a whole. I do not speak for the warlocks who choose not to raid. The OP asked for raiding feedback and it is in this regard that I address the topic. My examples are my own experiences playing with other classes that are pretty much fully mastered in spells and CA's and mostly T6 Legendary and Fabled equipment.]Raiding is different though. If we don't do the first, we won't get off the set because the mob will be dead before we can finish. This is well known (I hope). If we don't do the second, we will certainly draw aggro and become a paper punching bag that will soon require a rez. This is because there is no other class in the game that can 'affect' group encounters as we can. No tank out there can hold aggro on mobs being hit with our 4 AE attacks. This is a fact. I have tested this time and time again with the same result.So I am forced to hold back and decrease my AE dps for reasons of survival. Instead, I cast 1 or 2 of my AE's and do the rest with single target DD. This lets me live longer, but also exposes the fundamental problem of being labeled 'AE Kings'. Sure we may possess some nice group encounter tools, but cannot acheive the goal of T1 dps and stay alive if we use them! There are a ton of threads on the boards arguing sorcerer/pred/summoner dps, giving theoretical number crunches based off of spell descriptions. It just ain't so in game though. I say knock yourselves out adding up casting times, damage averages, proc buffs, INT bonuses, and recast timers. When the buttons are pressed in game, the results are clearly different.IN RAIDS, we are T3 damage dealers atm.I don't know if Moorguard intended the damage tiers to apply to raiding, but it currently does not. There are some excellent posts that show we are T2-3 outside of raids. Something needs to be done to get the majority of warlocks (AND wizards) into T1. This can be acheived through the things I previously stated, such as Stances, gear-based spell procs, reduced casting times, and much better aggro reduction ability. Raiders would benefit from these changes as well, and could bring us more inline with other classes in a raiding situation. Don't tell me I'm T1 dps and then expect me to be satisfied with being 7th or 8th on the parse or just plain dead.BTW, I'm not really responding to anything specifically stated here, just throwing down some thoughts. Feel free to disagree and discuss.UPDATE: My Broodlings apparently still sleep with the fishes...<div></div>

[Heart's Rage]

<div></div><p>You mean Nullmail doesnt work when you get hit for 10,000 and it heals u for 29 hp to get a deaggro off?  thats outrageous!!!!!!</p><p> </p><p>But seriously, I went from in the top 20,000 of deaths on my server before Warlock 2.0 was released, and am now in the top 5 after the "new" warlock is released. I personnaly at raids dont have much to complain about, Sure I get out damaged by Rouges and Brawlers on single targets just about EVERY [Removed for Content] time, and Sure Zerkers do slightly more dps then me using Rampage and open wounds on Group mobs, BUT I am allowed to complain about not being able to do what I was designed to do, which is AE groups and live.</p><p>Yes i can controll aggro, Yes I know I dont have to nuke, I know I can let my Guild /group/ pet/ raid/ partner/ or whatever get the mob to 5% before i start nuking, and avoid death. But a Warlock that just stands there isnt really fun and is not considered a DD class if your not allowed to attack till the mob is on life support, our job s supposed to be "putting the mob on life suport".</p><p> </p><p>Cosmic ~ Warlock of the 60th Plague</p><p>Iconoclast - Permafrost</p>

[VeraIkonica]

Very well said Heart's Rage.   Too bad no developer will ever see you post in this black hole of a forum.<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[Samani]

<div></div><p>Maxx122   To the point and accurate (SK do kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn])</p><p>Rhaas   Rambling garbage being thrown everywere to cover up his ineptitude. (Rhaas TY for quiting SK we have too many [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s already making our class look bad)</p><p> </p><p>Ok sorry about continueing of the thread hijacking <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I have thought with whta i read and what i have experienced that our deaggro spell did work with AE spells. Is there a specific thread somewhere i missed that has definative proof that this is not so?</p>

[Heart's Rage]

<div></div><p>There is an SK forum ya know? How in the world did SK and Warlock Even get in the same league?</p><p> </p>

[leliloe]

<div></div><p>Well, first time i write something here, even if if read this forum often.</p><p>I play in a small guild, so this answer perhaps isn't interesting for raids contents.</p><p>I was really angry with the LU13, like a lot of people, but i decided to try to <u>find another way</u> to play my warlock.</p><p>And then i choosed something not really usual, but very interesting (imho): instead of trying to have the most INT i can, i made my char more balanced between INT, STA and WIS. The idea was: warlocks aggro a lot, that's a reality, and devs don't seem to be ready to change it, so try yourself to be able to "offtank" when needed.</p><p>With a quite good stuff (only T6 rares), i'm now able to play my warlock in a very different way: as coercers can mezz adds, warlocks can really quickly kill a full add group (even heroic+, ++, ...), taking this group on him. Sure, it's less safe than mezz, but really exciting and not so dangerous.</p><p>What's the problem with taking aggro when your group trust you and when you know why you're doing it?</p><p>Same way, it's really easy with roots/burn/burn/burn to help your group healer when he's in difficulty.</p><p>Sure, this is more difficult than "assist MT/nuke/nuke/nuke", but this is moooooore interesting! is the most important thing to be the first one in parses, or to success your event with all the group alive?</p><p>What i want to say is that today, perhaps warlocks are not in the 1st T dps, or what you want, but i don't care. I know that my guildies like to play with me because i'm very usefull. And i really enjoy to play my char like this.  Warlocks have plenty ways of playing in a group, that's great!</p><p> </p><p>(sorry for my poor english)</p><p> </p>

[Spag]

<div>If Concussion reduced aggro from every mob hit while it is in use, this would resolve much of our issue here.  A simple change to a spell we already have would be great.  You could toss out concussion, and then just AE, reducing aggro while killing.</div><div> </div><div>Of course, smaller cast/recast times would be nice too.  3 and 4 seconds is way too long.</div>

[Dabbie]

You know what's incredibly annoying to me? The amount of mobs that are poison AND disease resistant, and the amount of poison resistant mobs in general. Example: The Gates of Aket'Anan (i know i spelled that wrong). For some of those mobs I end up twiddling my thumbs as they are resistant to all our damage....<div></div>