I have a new main!!

[Darkcreat]

<DIV>During one of my more bored moments the other day, I decided to make a new character. At the time I had at least one character of each of the main classes except for scout. So I decided I would make one so my collection would be complete.</DIV> <DIV>By level 15 I started to notice something.... I was doing equivalent if not more damage than my warlock did at that level. Then I looked at my armor. Hmm, leather, and in a couple more levels chain! Then I looked at my dual wield weapons. Hmm, very fast and nice damage, excellent stats. So then I thought to myself "Well certainly there must be utility skills that make my Warlock the better character." Then I looked down at my Smuggle icon, and my Debuffs/Snares/Pathfinding/Stat buffs/Stances. So then I got to really thinking. Well certainly my warlocks damage type (poison/disease) must be important on certain mobs. Then I realized I could use slashing or piercing or both. I also realized that I had poison on my weapons and the best debuffs in the game.... Then I thought well certainly my warlocks AoE capabilities must surely... oh wait, circular strike master 2.... nearly 200 dmg to ALL mobs in the area at level 14!!!!! Mith deer hordes drop like flies. Then I noticed my HP total was higher, my equipment options were by far better, and I would lose absolutely NOTHING yet gain so much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what I was left with was a couple questions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do warlocks have that my rogue (brigand to be) doesn't?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do warlocks do that a scout class can't match or compete with?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why am I still playing a warlock, when the scout is so much more fun and useful?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So like the title says, I guess I have a new main.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Darkcreator on <SPAN class=date_text>12-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:11 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Darkcreator on <span class=date_text>12-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:15 AM</span>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Well to be entierly honest <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV>At lvl 50+ no other class come even close to the warlock speed of killing heroic packs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .... except may be for a coercer with right pet and master 1 charm. Again noone can surpass warlock in ability to kill heroic named melee mobs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So dont get overexcited .... melee feel like they are demigods untill up to lvl 40 of mobs ... then .... you will have hard time in solo</DIV>

[TheBladesCaress]

Warlocks are a 1 trick pony. AoE damage.  No utility, and if that trick doesnt work, we can spam Word of Force a lot.<div></div>

[D-lirium]

I recently rolled a Brigand as well since I like to play less popular classes (what warlock was until it became flavour of the month..well..many months..)I am now at level 34, I've had some tough levels but I'm really having a blast now, much more fun than on my warlock, and in groups I'm much more useful/wanted because of my ability to debuff, chain-stun, evac <u>AND</u> do awesome DPS <b>without taking agro</b> because of my multiple de-agro's, add the fact that I can also tank well (with a legendary suit of chain ofcourse) and voila... who needs a warlock?If I'm the leader of a pick up group I always pick a scout class over a mage class now, fights go alot smoother.<div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Darkcreator wrote:<DIV>So what I was left with was a couple questions.</DIV><DIV>What do warlocks have that my rogue (brigand to be) doesn't?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do warlocks do that a scout class can't match or compete with?</DIV><hr></blockquote>First off, welcome to the rogue ranks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have one and I have a warlock, and both are fun to play.the biggest thing that warlocks have that rogues don't is superior ranged combat that doesn't require repositioning. With my warlock I just sit back and pick targets to die, with my swashy I have to move around (in groups) and reposition to start applying damage.. the -one- ranged combat art that rogue gets is throwing weapon based and IMHO almost a waste of time in a fast group.

[drajev]

<DIV>A pretty irritated wizard in answer to Tannatus. First of all, named heroics die much faster both  with a wizard and a ranger/assassin. In DD warlocks are way behind now, not even a tier1 class anymore. How can u tell me "Again noone can surpass warlock in ability to kill heroic named melee mobs" when i can unload 15k dmg in the first 14 secs of a regular named melee mob??? Wizards kill a lot faster and in a much more efficient manner as far as single heroics are concerned for 3 reasons:</DIV> <DIV>1 - More and higher DD nukes</DIV> <DIV>2 - Double root more resistant than warlock's roots now</DIV> <DIV>3 - recurrent stuns and 36 sec snare combined with nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So don't come make me laugh here about ability to kill nameds faster. In AOE, you rock, hands down, but thats pretty much it. We don't even have a warlock in our raiding guild for a few days now and with all the predators/summoners/chanters and 3 wizards in raids noone notices.</DIV> <DIV>I agree with this thread's author and if i had the time i would have certainly rolled a ranger, but RL occupations allows me less  and i prefer having one uber char rather than 2 average ones.</DIV> <DIV>I rest my case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Darkcreat]

<P>Tanatus,</P> <P>At lvl 14 my rogue got his first AoE, which i made master 2. Take that and add the fact that each mob that it hits gets a 25% chance to proc my poison and I'm doing anywhere from 100-300 dmg to all mobs in the area. No sorceror can even come close to that AoE dmg at that level. :p  Sure I may only get one AoE, but one is plenty when it refreshes fast enough to be used every fight. Sometimes twice a fight!</P> <P>In response to whoever it was that mentioned the ranged attack limitations. Why are you fretting over ranged when you can move into melee and not worry about being hit? Brigands get an ability that makes all but directly targetted AoE useless on them. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Raminicus]

<blockquote><hr>Darkcreator wrote:<P>Tanatus,</p> <P>At lvl 14 my rogue got his first AoE, which i made master 2. Take that and add the fact that each mob that it hits gets a 25% chance to proc my poison and I'm doing anywhere from 100-300 dmg to all mobs in the area. No sorceror can even come close to that AoE dmg at that level. :p Sure I may only get one AoE, but one is plenty when it refreshes fast enough to be used every fight. Sometimes twice a fight!</p> <P>In response to whoever it was that mentioned the ranged attack limitations. Why are you fretting over ranged when you can move into melee and not worry about being hit? Brigands get an ability that makes all but directly targetted AoE useless on them. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <P> </p> <P> </p> <DIV></div><hr></blockquote>I have a lvl 42 Warlock (he dinged 42 July 1st and hasn't levelled since) who was supposed to be my main. I now have a Ranger, as well as a few fighter classes. I have to say I agree with both the original poster's sentiments AND the wizard's statements. Wizards are by far the more powerful of the two sorceror classes when it comes to single target. But, Warlocks are the kinds of AoE. For a while, right after launch, this wasn't so. AoE is why I became a Warlock in the first place, so while I'm disappointed that my DDs have lost their dmg range, I'm happy we have our AoE prowess.Regardless, right now I believe I have much more fun on my Ranger. Maybe because it's new, but it's a blast.

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Darkcreator wrote:<P>In response to whoever it was that mentioned the ranged attack limitations. Why are you fretting over ranged when you can move into melee and not worry about being hit? Brigands get an ability that makes all but directly targetted AoE useless on them. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <hr></blockquote>um, because I play a swashy not a brigand? I get one single ranged attack.. in encounters with lots of mobs where they get a bit spread out, I lose dps when I have to reposition to anther mob. That is what i am referring to, warlock (and all other casters) can just stand still and blast away, not losing dps. not a biggie mind you, but it still counts as one thing warlock (and all casters) have over me, and even something rangers and assassins have.. ranged attacks that do decent damge... mine does.. woohoo a snare... not a lot of good when you have a MT taking the assault for you.So, I live with loss of dps if the tank cant get a bunch of mobs to nicely stand all close together for me.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tanatus]

<P>Drajew</P> <P>Lets start</P> <P>Warlock have 6s recast 4s duration fear+slow attached to root  and same like wizard AoE root which have double stability compare to wizard root because it dont have any secondary effects...</P> <P>Now about stuns lol just FYI nearly every primary attack of warlock have stun-buit in... Devastation have 4s AE stun, Dark Nebula 3.9s AE stun (wizards dont have any AE stuns btw...). Of course warlock have single target stun duration 4 and! on top of it warlock have "panic buttom" - Vullian Intrusion - 5.1s pacify (which for NPC mean - mob can move but cannt do anything else - no autoattack, no spellcasting, no special NOTHING NADA). So wizards dont have even close anything like warlocks stuns.... But of course real stuns champs are coercers (but thats different story)</P> <P>Now about soloing named - warlock can do it safer and as fast as wizard - neither class would use dots because of root brakage so both classes will relay on DD and Rains... Warlock vs. single taget can use Devastation (2.25-4.2K damage 4s cast/45s recast and! best of all 4s stun on termination of spell) Nul Distortion 1476-2746 3s cast 9s recast Nil Absolution 1300-2300 4s cast 12s recast Thwart 1176-1824 2s cast 30s recast 4s stun Soul Blister 746-1176 2s cast 4s recast .. on white conns and below prolly can add Aura of Emptiness (+1500-1800) 2s cast 20s recast (buff and its precastable)..</P> <P>Basically just via DD warlock easy can score 8572-14046 damage over 4+0.5+3+0.5+4+0.5+2+0.5+2 - 17s</P> <P>Drajev I yet to see FAST soloing by ranger any named lol even such [Removed for Content] like Sunstrider and I willing to bet that not a single assasin capable of soloing sunstrider  let along tougher named. </P> <P>Warlock able to put in 22s ~16.1K damage on every single mob within encounter but that in group .... wizard and warlock wont be pulling as much damage then they solo named because of roots and we both know that wizards roots far less reliable then wizard one and wizards dont have much stuns or pacifies which pretty much mean wizard will die a lot more often then warlock while soloing named....</P> <P>Please please dont make laugh hearing that assasin can solo heroic named +++</P> <P>P.S. On side note vs. heroic named casters champs of solo are coercers</P> <P>P.P.S I love to see how wizard only via DD (no dots) will do same</P><p>Message Edited by Tanatus on <span class=date_text>12-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:25 AM</span>

[laymu]

::Hums quietly:: ::whispers:: Let the wizards say they're better than warlocks at solo'ng named.. that way they get the nerf bat instead of us! ::Shouts::  You're right, wizzies farm named much better than warlocks.  Warlocks die instantly upon applying root. Please fix! <div></div>

[drajev]

<P>Ok Tanatus, here we go again:</P> <P>- Ice comet - 4.2 - 5.8k on debuffed mob, 2s knockback, 4s to cast</P> <P>- Ball of incineration, 1.6 - 2.9 k, 3s to cast, 9s recast</P> <P>- Sunstrike - approx 1k, 2s to cast, 3 s recast</P> <P>- Incapacitate - 1.2 - 2.3k every 25s, 2s stun</P> <P>- Surging tempest M1 - 1k every 8s + 1.5s stun+ knockback, which makes 12,6 - 18,9k dmg in 18 secs given surging tempest ticks twice and sunstrike and ball of incineration are triggered twice as well. I have numbing cold M1 as well and this is a 120% slowdown + snare so it gives all the security i need to unleash my dps.</P> <P>Once in the silent city at the masters day after LU17 when i was camping nameds i was killing a consul when i had an another consul add, a dog, + 3 noobs from upstairs, still managed to take everyone down. I have yet to see a skillfull warlock do better than this. Maybe you're a good player but get real, warlocks are much worse now than before, and live with that. Now we get outdps'ed by both summoners and predators but its not big deal if u feel powerful enough. Reently in Gates i managed to pull close to 120k damage on Magrick the destroyer and felt quite happy about myself. Clearly though, the guild conjuror was top dps even with being dead 1/3rd of the fight after pulling agro in the beginning.</P> <P>Cheers and have fun, thats all it is.</P>

[Darkcreat]

<P>"but its not big deal"</P> <P> </P> <P>I beg to differ. It is a HUGE deal when you give up all the things that robe wearing casters do. The whole premise of the caster class is that you give up armor, hp, weapons, etc... to gain unmatched damage. The whole thing falls apart when you have chainmail wearing scouts taking the lead. Why make all the sacrifices when you can get better damage and get better stuff?</P>

[Seiden]

Brigands unite! I love mine. He is my main atm. But I am really wanting to be a warlock as well, we will see how it works out once I get past the subclass thing.<div></div>

[Brockaine2]

Brigands are an awesome class no doubt and on the surface it appears better then warlock but their aoe is incredibly small even by scout standards whereas warlock is still undisputed aoe champion. At least warlocks have godly aoe my wizard is outclasses by a rogue or pred at almost every turn except for a couple VERY minor utility spells. One thing tho is that warlock/wizard have roots which means they can solo real good....your rogue is gonna get ate up by heroics at higher lvls because you are forced to melee.

[Crono1321]

Rogue damage is so much lower than Sorceror, please don't start making threads about this crap.  <div></div>

[Roriondesexiest]

<DIV>I also have an alt scout, right now he is lvl 27 Ranger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the early levels he really rocked, the hidden backstab did massive damage.  Then as that ability got closer to graying out my damage went way down.  Granted this was 8 months ago so I am sure things have changed since then but it really seems to balance itself out as you get higher in levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still enjoy my Warlock much more than the ranger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Omaplata</DIV>

[Junaru]

I shelved my Warlock for a Monk. My damage was fine and I didn't mind getting out DPSed ever once in a while. What I hated was getting two shotted when I gained aggro while other classes did as much or more damage and didn't gain aggro. I liked the warlock class and even dealt with the changes but came to realize that I hated casting my AoE cause I knew each time I did death wasn't far behind.Maybe the new deaggro spell will become an AoE and will help Warlocks but right now I'm enjoying the killing power of my Monk. At my level I rank with the top DPS classes yet I can tank. Granted I have like 6 or 7 master skills and the best armor and weapons my 35 Monk can use. I expect this to change as I run out of money or masters but for now I'm having a blast.<div></div>

[CrimsonAveng]

<DIV>Junaru, well put and amen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my warlock, I really do. The dps is decent (not tier 1 in group/raid situations) and I solo groups of harpies great. But the 1-2 shot death thing sucks. Plus the no utility other than a couple of roots, self-invis, and 1 stifle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the otherhand, like you, I am having a blast with my brawler. Grantite, I'm only lvl 43 bruiser, but the armor, the avoidance, the hit points,  the mez, the fear, the FD, and the self-heal make for a more playable character and I do similar dps IMO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In raid situations my warlock never makes the main group (unless they need poison mit) and sometimes doesn't make the raid at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now raids dont get canceled by not having a bruiser but I think he will do more dps in raid situations and last longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Heart's Rage]

<P> Teir 1 dps are Warlocks Wizards from Mages, and Rangers Assassins from scouts, Ideally they're supposed to be top dmg yada yada yada.</P> <P>Some have long recasts with bigger damage, some have Good damage on short recast, some have situational damage like AE and procs, all can be effective regaurdless of the situation and None have any utility - and if they do its very small doses compare to other classes. </P> <P>Rangers are king of range, Warlocks are king of AE, Assassins are king of up close and personal, Wizards are king of direct damage nukes, not to say that any of these classes cant adapt and turn there jobs around, theyre very flexible and can do damage in most any situations. Warlocks can chain dots and procs and direct damage nukes and almost equall any of the other 3 classes, rangers can drop the bow and get up close and personal chaining ca's and procs, same goes for the other 2,  all of these teir 1 classes are ment to do damage and thats what they do best. As far as temporary class unbalancing goes, true its not a perfect world but thats the best description I can offer. More importantly again... these classes can adapt to do damage on anything in the game, maybe not as useful in all situations but they can try. These classes will never be in the main group at raids or any of that glorious stuff, infact you may find them often thrown in a group together cuz they offer nothing to anyone, they are self efficient in damage and dont need to depend on any class in the same form as a Tank depends on a healer or a healer depends on a chanter. </P> <P>Teir 2 dps includes Swashy, Brigs, Conj and Necros, These classes are by no means full utility, nor are they full damage classes, they are an equall balance of both.and can prevail in both in any situation. Swashy and Brig Debuffs + Good damage, Conj buffs plus good damage, necro debuffs and heals plus good damage. Theyre damage may exceed a Teir 1 dps in certain situations and for short bursts, but they fall short when they need to adapt, and cant put out continually high damage all the time in any situation.</P> <P>Teir 3 is Bards and chanters, they have extremly high utility and dps varys from decent to non existint depending on the situation, but there utility is handy in any situation. As the teir 1 dps can adapt to combat, this teir can expend different utilitys to match any situation and be usefull, theyre calling is to make everyone else more efective.</P> <P>You will find that there are simialr formulas to Healers and tanks as well. </P> <P>-In conlusion droping a warlock for your swash may be the best move for you, you seem to like uility while not losing absolute damage, your the exact middle class and you can enjoy both aspects of the damage world.</P> <P>I like to see big numbers, and like to see them often, I dont care to give my groupmates or raid padded stats or mana, I just want to annihalate any and everything that stands in my way regaurdless of what the situation may be. So this is a good class for me.</P> <P>Key thing to picking a class is to see what situation you will most likely enjoy playing and pick a toon that suits your play style. Brigands post 50 are great damage and debuffs, you will often find that it isnt as pretty as it seems due to mana efficiency. Hence what I said earlier about them not being able to put out continually high damage all the time. </P> <P>On a side note, dont pick a class based on what class is the best this week, this is an everchanging game and if your picking a conj or swashy cause they seem to be in high regaurds at the moment, your setting yourself up for disapointment when a nerf bat heads your way, keep in mind the changing of classes damage is a flip of a swich away, but theyre job descroptions as I posted above are set in stone 4 DPS. 4 Utility, 4 Average of both. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Cosmic ~ Warlock of the 60th plague</P> <P>Iconoclast ~ Permafrost </P><p>Message Edited by Heart's Rage on <span class=date_text>12-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 AM</span>

[Araxes]

<span><blockquote><hr>Heart's Rage wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>On a side note, dont pick a class based on what class is the best this week, this is an everchanging game and if your picking a conj or swashy cause they seem to be in high regaurds at the moment ... </p><hr></blockquote> This is the only thing to remember.  Bottom line.  Things will always change.  You can drive yourself nuts switching classes if all you think about is how much DPS / utility you bring to the table.  I've been playing since launch and its changed a dozen times over for every single class.  It will change a dozen times more.  Every time a change comes along everyone jumps ship and power-levels that new "uber" class to the top ... and then they all moan and jump ship AGAIN when things change again (as they inevitably do).  So just play what you LIKE. </span><div></div>

[Kytraan]

Congradulations to the OP on finding the class he likes to play best. I made at least 1 of each of the 4 archtypes and got them to at least 20. These include a Swashbuckler and Warlock (my main is a paladin). After getting the Swash to 20 I decided I didnt really enjoy playing all that much, while I went on to level the warlock to 43 (atm). I found the warlock to be a fun class, I love standing back and watching the mob die from a distance. I never liked sneaking up behind the mob and doing my best damage all in one shot and then loosing half my possible attacks because the mob was now facing me (solo situation of course). My choice ends up different than yours. But then I am glad you made yours, I can never find enough scouts (Brigand/Swash) when I want one. My guild is small but fun. We dont have anyone playing a swash or brigand as a main. We have made 3 or 4 trips down to see Nagafen the hard way (3+ hours fighting our way down with no group invis /cringe). Enjoy your Brigand =) <div></div>

[betterji]

well go enjoy your scout warlocks still uba <DIV>have fun being de-buff [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</DIV>

[Rha]

<DIV>omg what kind of BS im reading here</DIV> <DIV>all the guys who have no warlock and posted here please shut up </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>warlock is top dps if u know how to play it even in raids we still deal the most dmg </DIV> <DIV>cast Netherous Realm  followed by NA  and DN and u will be surprised ^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NR adds around 500dmg on every single hit not to mention the dmg the 2 spells deal </DIV> <DIV>and after that throw in Devastation and the mobs are almost eaten </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and DD well we dont deal that much on single target now but who cares since soe changed 75% of the mobs in game to linked mobs </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AOE ftw ) </DIV>

[Darkcreat]

<P>Uh huh.... </P> <P>Rhaas eats dirt three times a fight in an exp group too. His raid party won't take him along anymore because he always takes agro and causes a wipe.</P>