Aggro control? How?

[silentpsycho]

<DIV>Ok, I'm a 36 Warlock.  Last night I got Nil Distortion at Master 2, which is my main direct damage AOE spell for my level range.  The problem I have is that every single time I cast this spell, multiple mobs peel off the MT and come and whack me, no matter how long I wait to cast it or my spell sequence.  I've learned to stand next tot he MT before I cast ND and follow up directly afterwards with my AOE stun.  Sometimes this works and the tank regains aggro, but most of the time it doesn't.  This fails so frequently that I've maxed my defensive skill in one night (yay!).  The downside is that the tank tends to get upset that "I can't manage my aggro", and healers run out of mana trying to keep me alive.  Once, before I figured out the positioning and to follow up with, instead of lead off with, stun I wiped the group on a large encounter.  This made me (and others in my group) very unhappy, and I became determined to find a solid solution to the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, aside from always standing next to the MT when I cast my AOE's and stunning, is there anything else I can do to manage aggro better?  I have no idea why tanks can't hold aggro these days, that's not really under my control or my problem to solve.  But, I'd like to know what abilities/skills/techniques I have at my disposal to drop aggro.  This used to happen to me all the time on my Necro in EQ1, esp. on Raid mobs... but then I'd just FD.  When this happens on my Assasin, I evade.  What do I do _WHEN_ it happens on my Warlock?  "Stun/hope MT regains aggro" isn't a great option IMHO.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want FD (or equivalent) on my Warlock dangit...</DIV>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<div></div>To put it simply, they really can't and you mean null absolution. That's the sad thing about us right now is that we have no deaggro control methods/hate reducers or transfers unlike preds and rogues, and the fact that we have to cast spells to do damage, we get no free dps unlike scouts and summoners (enchanters do not count as they are no there for dps) - I am not saying we should get free dps either, it's what makes us unique, but the hate we generate is an issue, so you bring up a good point. Hence we have to hold back a little or suffer getting aggro, while the others can go almost full out to going all out while we cannot maximise our dps. The only times I cannot get aggro from AEs is with amends from a paladin, even a guard with master1 assuage cannot reduce my hate enough where ae is viable. Wait til you get to 50+, I have master1 devastation, nil absolution, master2 dark nebula since I have master1 null distortion, couple that with dept3 corrupt gift, netherous realm and boundless fury, no one on my server can hold aggro from me if I utilise them all to maximise my dps. Even with amends tbh, the paladin will just get aggro which is just as bad. But having said all that I am not taking anything away from warlocks in raids, they are vital in many situations, namely where there are adds and continuous add pops. <span><blockquote><hr>silentpsycho wrote: <div>So, aside from always standing next to the MT when I cast my AOE's and stunning, is there anything else I can do to manage aggro better?  I have no idea why tanks can't hold aggro these days, that's not really under my control or my problem to solve.  But, I'd like to know what abilities/skills/techniques I have at my disposal to drop aggro.</div><hr></blockquote>Ok you should not stand next to your tank. There is a mob AI where mobs tend to go towards the closest person hurting them or annoying them the most, which is why scouts sometimes get aggro if they do not use their deaggro stuff and they are doing less damage than the mage, yet they get aggro (just enough to get the mobs attention - of course if the mage is doing an overwhelming amount more the mob will come all the way over) because the mob knows the scout is right behind them and is easier to get rid of them first since they are right behind. Hence you <i>do not</i> want to stand close to the mt, stay as far away as possible. With the boundless fury line though you would want to go in close and them come back out unless you know the mobs can't really hurt you if you get aggro then just stay in close, whatever. Another misconception you have is that aggro control is just the job of the tank. It simply is not - it is the job of the whole group, but the main emphasis is on the tank. Now coming to my last point which is prob the most important in all of this, our deaggro emergency spell nullmail simply sucks and is prob the worst deaggro/emergency spell in the game. Firistly, whenever I have gotten aggro and used this it has <i>never</i> gotten rid of the aggro even with the tank full on taunting, this is with semi difficult mobs where the healers managed to keep my alive during it so the mobs were sometimes on me for more than 10 seconds, with me not casting anything, yet is simply does not clearing my aggro with each hit. Secondly, why is it, and I am sure the devs would agree wholeheartedly, that a mage has to get hit to reduce aggro - the concept is simpy wrong. Especially with raid mobs, we are dead in 1 or 2 hits anyway, what is the point? Not to mention it does not even work. Lastly nullmail is not upgradeably and is grey at 60, it is the warlock's most useless spell by far.</span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>12-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[Mackrala]

<DIV>We are Warlocks, on large encounters, the most powerful of all classes in the game. Aggro is our life. Deal with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Mackralall, lvl60 Najena</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>2 way </DIV> <DIV>a) buy paladin pet (really neat during raiding)</DIV> <DIV>b) pray that you can kill AoE encounter before it will kill yoi</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vs single target? - unless it epic - fear kite, stun, pacify - anyway vs, single target control agro is easy</DIV>

[Xperi]

<DIV>Anyone got numbers on the concussive spell?? </DIV>

[Maheret]

took me a while to learn to manage it when I hit that level. I think the first nuke I made once I upgraded it to master II I ended up dead =) Now at level 41 I almost never get aggro from using it. Unfortuantatly I cannot tell you when or when not to use it, you must learn depending on the cicumstance and who you have tanking for you. I will tell you this tho, you are better of using it as a finisher and not  right off the bat. <div></div>

[Ziffna]

<DIV>Hopefully the deagro spell they are adding in with lu 18 helps i doubt it tho as the way it is set up we have to cast it then hit the target with a damage spell thus nullifying the hate reduction, or they will give it a crazy recast timer so it will be a one every dozen fights or so type thing.  We will have to wait and see tho maybe sony has a decent plan wish they would fix our emergancy hate reducer while they are at it </DIV>

[Mag]

<div></div><span class="postbody"><span></span><span></span></span><span class="postbody"><b>Sorcerer changes: - Concussive is a new level 15 spell that will reduce hate with the next spell that lands on the Sorcerer's target. </b> Hopefully they will make it an Encounter-spell, otherwise I hardly see the point in it for us considering its the AoE-spells we usually have trouble with not getting aggro if we wanna do a decent DPS. </span><span class="postbody"><span></span> </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Magod on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 AM</span>

[Spakka]

EASY SOLUTION guys - roll a gnome Warlock, and make sure you choose Confusing Babble as your first Trait. This reduces your place on the aggro table by a HUGE amount - more than anything else I have in the way of spells (including Nullmail - our hate reducing spell), and it still works every time for me at lvl 43.   I have never died in a group if I managed to get this spell off in time. Downside is you can only cast it every 15 mins (?) I think, but its invaluable when you need it. Also think some other Races have this trait too under a different name - check the forums. This is practically the only Trait I have ever found useful on my 6 toons, but for a caster its awesome for those occasions you are about to be squashed.   Only works in groups of course ... (N.B.  I always start encounter with debuffs/Gift line spells and 'nil crystal' spells before unloading heavy stuff - Absolution is the 3rd or 4th spell I cast, and by this time tank usually has enough aggro for me to last the encounter) <div></div>

[MilkToa]

<P>Ratonga also have an aggro reducing trait option call Plea for Mercy which is similar to the one available to gnomes. Tarton's Wheel can be used to reduce aggro if you're in a place where the phase shift won't get you killed. I use both of these options to proactively avoid aggro, once I get aggro the most common way for me to reduce it is to die.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 PM</span>

[silentpsycho]

It seems lame that we have to depend on racial abilities to have any shot at proactively controlling aggro.  In a lot of cases, one or two hits on me and I'm dead in most group situations.  Null Mail and dying seem pretty close to the same option, and I don't even have the spell yet, so I guess death is my only option as a 37 Warlock.  I'd trade null mail for a feign death or evade in a heart beat.  What are the chances that this will get fixed? 

[MilkToa]

<DIV>I've actually had nullmail work a few times (out of hundreds of attempts) on non-raid mobs, on raid mobs you're dead. If I get aggro on a non-raid mob I usually just go toe-to-toe with the mob, stunning, pacifying and nuking until one of us is dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by MilkToast on <SPAN class=date_text>12-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:01 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:02 PM</span>

[Roriondesexiest]

<DIV>I just responded to a similar post.  I try to only group with Tanks I know (and can scream at)   There seem to be a lot more tanks than I remember attempting to provide DPS rather than tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only job of a tank is to taunt, just as the only job of a healer is to heal.  If you are getting with tanks that never taunt, find another group.  I tend to wait for their AOE taunts before I cast my AOE, (when you see the heads on fire of the entire mob).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have too many issues pulling hate from the tank unless he/she isn't taunting and yes I do the most DPS in my group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Omaplata</DIV>

[Oakbr]

<div></div>Standing next to the tank is pretty much the worst possible place to be.  Not only do you risk catching barrage damage, but if you do pull aggro, the mob is already on you.   You want to stand well away from the tank, so if you pull aggro, the mob has to run to you, giving the tank time to taunt it back, or you time to stun/root or kill it before it reaches you. Prior to the announcement of the incoming Pally nerf, I'd also suggest you make friends with a Pally and let him put his aggro transfer buff on ya.  For reasons unknown, that spell  (Amends) is getting nerfed in LU#18, so who knows how aggro will work thereafter.  <p>Message Edited by Oakbrow on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:53 PM</span>

[SandDragon]

<DIV>Some of it depends on the kind of groups you are in also. Usually if I group with guildmates I normally don't have much of a problem with aggro as I know my tanks taunts are upgraded to adept 3 or master. There have been a lot of times, though, that I have been in pick-up grps and things not go so well. I usually try to ask the mt as soon as I join the grp if he has upgraded his taunts as this has become so very important to what we can do in the grp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as others have mentioned in this post and other topics as well......sometimes the tanks are trying to dps (spamming ca's) and not taunting, which makes it pretty hard for us to not get aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helps a little.</DIV>

[Spakka]

Actually thats not quite a fair comment regarding tanks trying to do DPS, I know beserkers do generate a lot of their hate from certain of their attack CA's and not just their taunts.   Don't think other tanks do to the same degree though, so agree with your comment in principle. Certainly had the gaining aggro problem myself in lower lvl pick-up groups where tanks didn't  know their class, but have almost never had this problem post 40 grouping with my guildies. <div></div>

[SandDragon]

<P>I totally agree and apologize for that statement being so broad.</P> <P>I've got a shadowknight but solo'd him to 20 and don't ever really play him at all so it gets kinda hard knowing what exactly goes on. :robotwink:</P>