Araxes' proposed tweaks

[Araxes]

<div></div>First let me say this list is short and sweet and I don't post it in way of complaint.  Second I'll say I'm happy with the warlock class in general and have been since the revamp. These are just some things I have been thinking about recently: Here is what I would like to see: -  A narrowing of the gap in our direct damage spell lines - biased to the upper end of the spectrum.  What I mean is - instead of the damage range being  (just for example) 500 - 1200 -- make it 900 - 1200.   I think the current gap in range possibility is simply too large given the long cast and recast timers.  But I would be willing to settle with those timers should our spell results be more valid. <i><font size="2">Let me justify this one: it's not that I'm unhappy with out current DPS.  However - it's just not FUN to cast our signature spells maybe once - tiwce if lucky - during a normal battle.  However, since shortening the timers would = uncontrollable aggro in most cases - I'm willing to trade-off for slightly higher DPS - and keep the timers as they are.</font> </i> - One additional single-target direct damage spell line doing moderate to heavy damage.  Perhaps something like ice-flame but doing a poison/disease combo instead.  - An additional hate debuff - or the shortening of Nullmail recast.  I am a ratonga and have the benefit of taking Plea as my racial trait - but even between the two I find the recast timer on Nullmail simply too long to be of much practical use. - An increase in the siphoning power of the Pillaging line / mana feed line.  This really DOES need to be adjusted.  As it currently stands I find both of these spells pretty useless. Thanks! <div></div><p>Message Edited by Vicontessa on <span class=date_text>11-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:35 PM</span>

[Meattray]

i would have to agree, i have only just made 50+ as a warlock, and i do think the spell damage gap needs to be reduced, as my small/medium single target nuke can out damage my large one. We do need a better hate reducer, something with instant hate reduction would be good and shorter recast time. it would be SO much better if we didnt have to be HIT to have the threat reduced, we can only take 1 or 2 hits from heroic encounters. It is soo hard to find a tank that can hold even resonable agro, i find Necro and conj pets hold  better agro then many tanks The siphoning line of spells, what line of spells i have never cast it since i got it and im lev 50, seems pretty worthless to me Id like to touch on our dots,  they seem very very weak. At max my dots at adept1 and ap4 do like 50-100 damage.  I only use then when tanks cant hold agro from using our small nukes. Nukette 51 Najena <div></div>

[betterji]

i think mabye something similar to Feign death would be good for aggro reducer i think that would be a great fix

[KlausFlouride]

WTB Manaburn(or similarly titled nuke).  A 45min reuse wouldn't be asking much either.

[Dajuuk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> betterjimi wrote:<BR>i think mabye something similar to Feign death would be good for aggro reducer i think that would be a great fix <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Feign Death woudl be great for us and it fits in well with the role playing aspect of our class.    This is an excellent idea.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Vicontessa wrote:<div></div> - An additional hate debuff - or the shortening of Nullmail recast.  I am a ratonga and have the benefit of taking Plea as my racial trait - but even between the two I find the recast timer on Nullmail simply too long to be of much practical use. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I never understood why priests and scouts get a nice hate debuff, while mages get a useless (or less usefull hehe) one. With sorcerers dps we really need one that doesnt require us to get hit imo.</span><div></div>

[Ziffna]

<DIV>i have to agree getting hit to lose agro has got to be the worst implementation of a hate debuff i have ever seen neither priest nor scouts need to get hit to use their hate debuff.  Personally i would rather see nullmail implemented like the scout agro reducer useable every min or 2 and reduces hate directly on the target or in the case of warlocks the encounter would make our hate reduction preventitive rather then just somethign to hit 1 second before we die.</DIV>

[Junaru]

What makes getting hit to lose aggro worse is we are an AoE class. So getting aggro normally comes from multi mobs not just one. I would love some kind of AoE Jolt (EQ1 Ranger Spell) for the Warlock. <div></div>

[maddawg138]

<P>and the fact we usually die in 2 hits so its completely useless</P> <P>even with the Robe of Protection ,which has a slip proc(decreases threat by 1 position when hit), when i get hit during raids...i die</P> <P>Nullmail would be a great spell if it was just like scout/priest aggro reducer and actually scaled with level instead of being grey at lvl 60 =</P> <P>pisses me off cause i had master 1 of the spell and now its just a non upgradeable spell but priest/scouts can get upgrades and reduce threat even more.</P>

[Ziffna]

<DIV>I feel with you I too had the master I version of this spell in hopes that it would get fixed with the revamp into something useable unfortunitly that didn't happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS the spell grays out after 54 where the beta upgrade for this line was supposed be.  Apparently when they removed the line they didn't remove the skill cap on Nullmail so that it would scale indeffenitly with level.</DIV>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ziffnabb wrote:<div>i have ever seen neither priest nor scouts need to get hit to use their hate debuff. </div><hr></blockquote>The one my defiler has reduces aggro (and a lot more than my wizard's) on all targets within pbae range and also fears them. Every time i cast Mail of Frost (and die after 2 hits) i wish i had that one -_- Think scouts have even better ones, but dont have a scout so no personal experience with that.</span><div></div>

[Meattray]

<DIV>Feign Death would be a good way to lose agro, if not we NEED something that is a instant AOE threat reduction.</DIV>

[Lonw]

Since we are the poison and Disease based class, I always thought we would have the majority of our DPs done through DoTs, not nukes and certainly not AoEs. More like Necros, without the pet, crossed with wizards. AE nuke kings is kinda dissapointing, and not what I signed up for. Makes chanters AE gods, give em something to do when mezzing is useless. Well, the opposite of mezzing really, damaging an entire group <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . FD without restrictions would make us godly, we would not be constrained by the tanks' ability to hold agro, and would take some of the skill out of the class. I DO on the other hand, think it fits the class concept and think an unreliable (read 50-66% chance of success) FD would be plausible, or have a long (15-30 minute) re-use so we cant abuse it, simply to escape the repurcussions of the tanks inability to keep up with us <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Amistead]

<P>WTB Ranger deaggro buff.</P> <P>Scout dps classes get one con slot deaggro buffs.  Further, they get reusable deaggro CA's.</P> <P>Null mail, frankly, is useless.  Overall, I have seen a good effort on the part of the developers to make sure that spells are useful.  Nullmail remains one of the few spells, besides the curse of desolation, that is poorly conceived.    Another problem in balance between the top tier dps classes is the disparity between Assassins and Rangers getting both offensive and defensive stances.  Casters get a defensive stance (Magi's Shielding), but no offensive stance.</P> <P>So, my idea is to implement a sorceror one con slot "offensive stance" that includes a 40ish percent deaggro buff and a plus to disruption.  The Ranger deaggro buff is up 100% of the time and costs no power, just one con slot.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to provide Warlocks/Wizards with a similar aggro management tool.  As it stands, every raiding wizard and warlock knows, if you don't have a pally or a troubador in your group, you get to sit on your hands while you watch the rangers bomb away.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Alezara </P> <P>60 Warlock of Unrest---CORE</P> <P> </P>

[stoggy]

<P>you dont need an aggro reducer ... you just need to learn to cast.  try timing your spells better.  watch for the tanks taunts getting resisted.  if the tank is the first to cast(should be at least) it will say resist above the monster/s head...or watch the combat spam and it will tell you what happened ... maybe you should learn to read.</P> <P>the spell recast timers are WAY to long they should insta pop up so all these noobs get killed instantly and any warlock with any intelligence doesnt click the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ing button just because its up.  i die too but its no reason for a new spell line.</P> <P> </P> <P>necros own warlock/wizard dps ... the game is messed up.  they dont pull aggro cause its half them and half their pet... go figure.  a decent necro will beat any warlock against a group and a decent necro will beat some wizards against a single mob.  and the warlock will pull aggro and die attempting to beat the necro ... the wizard will pull aggro and have to insta stun trying to beat the necro.</P> <P> </P> <P>enchanters should never be damage dealers they should make other classes more effective ... unfortunately the morons at soe think this is the role best suited to bards and enchanters should charm some solo mob and go play with themselves.  ( so much for reducing class dependencies )</P>

[Araxes]

Well - this issue of "timing" gets back to one of my main points: In order for us to time our spells well enough to not immediately drag aggro on top of ourselves from all sides - we do indeed have to wait quite a bit (relatively speaking). BUT in a battle that ends within 20 seconds or less.  That leaves us only one or two opportunities to cast something like Devastation or Null Absolution.  Which means we spend most of the time in most battles not doing much but using our single target nukes and our debuffs.  Our debuffs are mostly puny weak - I'm not going to lie and say they aren't - and our damage pet (netheros lord) doesn't do enough damage to feel worth casting plus it dies after one mob so in group mobs it's also inefficient.  Since our single target dps was lowered to account for our huge increase in AE dps yet we can only cast those signature AE spells maybe once or twice in a battle because a.) everything is killed before you cast or b.) each time you target a mob in a group of five that mob dies before you can cast and so you waste a LOT of time RE-casting or c.)  you just plain don't cast because you know you will get aggro and [Removed for Content] off the tank or healer. That kind of mechanic is just not FUN.  And that's what my original post was about.  And it's why I think a lot of people have felt fundamentally frustrated with the class since the revamp. It's not that we are unhappy with our new role or with our dps.  But there is this issue of "situational usefulness" -- my suggestions at top were things I felt would keep us still within our new role (I DON'T want to be just like everyone else, after all) but give us a little bit more usefullness.  Hence the added single target line disease/poison combo - the change to make mana feed / drain lines far more powerful - the biasing of our landed direct damage spells to upper echelon of results to give more validity to the one or two times we may use it in battle.  Etc. So that when we cannot cast for any of the above reasons - we can help the group in other ways.  That's what is fun for me. <div></div>

[Amistead]

<DIV>stoggy wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <P>you dont need an aggro reducer ... you just need to learn to cast.  try timing your spells better.  watch for the tanks taunts getting resisted.  if the tank is the first to cast(should be at least) it will say resist above the monster/s head...or watch the combat spam and it will tell you what happened ... maybe you should learn to read.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Okay.  Let me clarify in a constructive fashion.  Without the deaggro buffs of a troubador or paladin, this is exactly what I do already.  The problem has very little to do with your understanding of why warlocks peel.  It has nothing to do with resists.  Quite simply, tank classes have one AOE taunt.  Because of timer recast on these, if a warlock does NOT have present another player to manage his/her aggro... this scenario happens-></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Ranger has up deaggro buff and fires deaggro CA's throughout encounter->does approximately 900 ish dps in aoe situations.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Berserker is the tank at this point, firing all his aoes->1400ish dps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Necro/Conjuror getting his aggro cut in half-> sum total of pet plus conjuror is 1600ish dps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Warlock (NOT HAVING COMPARABLE DEAGGRO TOOLS TO THESE OTHER AOE CLASSES)-> hits 600dps, peels, and dies.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Warlock (WHILE HAVING THE ASSISTANCE OF A PALADIN OR TROUBADOR IN GROUP)-> 2000ish+dps max. (This is post Anarchic Maelstrom fix).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Your statement indicates that there is some lack of play skill going on.  My reply is that I don't have the tools necessary to play my character.  These aoe-centric classes all get functional deaggro utilities.  Warlocks get none.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P>necros own warlock/wizard dps ... the game is messed up.  they dont pull aggro cause its half them and half their pet... go figure.  a decent necro will beat any warlock against a group and a decent necro will beat some wizards against a single mob.  and the warlock will pull aggro and die attempting to beat the necro ... the wizard will pull aggro and have to insta stun trying to beat the necro.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Now I'm confused.  Your first statements indicate that Warlocks do not need a functional deaggro utility.  Immediately following this, you state that Warlocks get pwned by necros, because necros have a functional deaggro utility.  In aoe situations, assuming I have deaggro buffs available from other players AS I DON'T HAVE ANY SELF UTILITIES LIKE THESE OTHER DPS CLASSES, my warlock is never outparsed.  Ever.  Warlocks have sufficient dps on single targets, and top of the line dps in aoe situations.  Is your warlock getting outparsed in aoe situations? Perhaps, and I state this as politely as possible, you should learn to read.  Hint: try reading corrupt gift.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I reiterate, rangers/assassins/necros/conjurors/berserkers all do excellent aoe dps, and have utilities to manage that aggro.  Warlocks do excellent aoe dps, and have no useful utility to manage aggro.  It would be super cool if some balance were achieved between these classes so my warlock doesn't have to sit on his hands when I don't have a pally or troubador in my group.  One con slot.  Reduce aggro by 40ish percent at AD3.  Rangers get it, so why not warlocks?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P>Alezara</P> <P>Warlock of the 60th Order</P> <P>Core-Unrest</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P></DIV>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amistead wrote:<BR> <DIV>stoggy wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <P>you dont need an aggro reducer ... you just need to learn to cast.  try timing your spells better.  watch for the tanks taunts getting resisted.  if the tank is the first to cast(should be at least) it will say resist above the monster/s head...or watch the combat spam and it will tell you what happened ... maybe you should learn to read.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Okay.  Let me clarify in a constructive fashion.  Without the deaggro buffs of a troubador or paladin, this is exactly what I do already.  The problem has very little to do with your understanding of why warlocks peel.  It has nothing to do with resists.  Quite simply, tank classes have one AOE taunt.  Because of timer recast on these, if a warlock does NOT have present another player to manage his/her aggro... this scenario happens-></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Ranger has up deaggro buff and fires deaggro CA's throughout encounter->does approximately 900 ish dps in aoe situations.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Berserker is the tank at this point, firing all his aoes->1400ish dps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Necro/Conjuror getting his aggro cut in half-> sum total of pet plus conjuror is 1600ish dps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Warlock (NOT HAVING COMPARABLE DEAGGRO TOOLS TO THESE OTHER AOE CLASSES)-> hits 600dps, peels, and dies.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Warlock (WHILE HAVING THE ASSISTANCE OF A PALADIN OR TROUBADOR IN GROUP)-> 2000ish+dps max. (This is post Anarchic Maelstrom fix).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Your statement indicates that there is some lack of play skill going on.  My reply is that I don't have the tools necessary to play my character.  These aoe-centric classes all get functional deaggro utilities.  Warlocks get none.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P>necros own warlock/wizard dps ... the game is messed up.  they dont pull aggro cause its half them and half their pet... go figure.  a decent necro will beat any warlock against a group and a decent necro will beat some wizards against a single mob.  and the warlock will pull aggro and die attempting to beat the necro ... the wizard will pull aggro and have to insta stun trying to beat the necro.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Now I'm confused.  Your first statements indicate that Warlocks do not need a functional deaggro utility.  Immediately following this, you state that Warlocks get pwned by necros, because necros have a functional deaggro utility.  In aoe situations, assuming I have deaggro buffs available from other players AS I DON'T HAVE ANY SELF UTILITIES LIKE THESE OTHER DPS CLASSES, my warlock is never outparsed.  Ever.  Warlocks have sufficient dps on single targets, and top of the line dps in aoe situations.  Is your warlock getting outparsed in aoe situations? Perhaps, and I state this as politely as possible, you should learn to read.  Hint: try reading corrupt gift.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I reiterate, rangers/assassins/necros/conjurors/berserkers all do excellent aoe dps, and have utilities to manage that aggro.  Warlocks do excellent aoe dps, and have no useful utility to manage aggro.  It would be super cool if some balance were achieved between these classes so my warlock doesn't have to sit on his hands when I don't have a pally or troubador in my group.  One con slot.  Reduce aggro by 40ish percent at AD3.  Rangers get it, so why not warlocks?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P>Alezara</P> <P>Warlock of the 60th Order</P> <P>Core-Unrest</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Good points, I never thought of it that way, but it makes perfect sense) /kudo's. </P> <P>Fix cast times or damage range on our Damage spells.</P> <P>Add another agro reducing line that effects all mobs in area/or group</P> <P>If I dont have a paly as my MT I feel handcuffed 99% of the time. Effectivly causing me to hold back to about 50% of the DPS I could achieve. Do i think I should be able ot go balls to the wallz from get go? Nope, but unless I have a paly as mt, I cant even do half of what I am capable of.</P>

[Ziffna]

Amistead, I have to agree with you there is no effective way to control our agro without someone else reducing it for us as it goes having our emergancy hate reducer gray out isn't helping eather.