Area Effect Spells : the low down.

[Saarum]

<DIV>Hi All: 27 Warlock here,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am looking for tips on using AE spells. I solo or duo mainly and end up using my single target DD's. So when i find myself in a group, I tend to eventually pull agro and die once or twice when using the AE spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are some tank classes better than others at holding group agro? </DIV> <DIV>Do AE dots generate less agro?</DIV> <DIV>Are their any useful ways of using AE spells that dont involve being beaten on?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have the group root yet so I assume that might be on method... any tips would be appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV>

[vorek]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Saarum wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hi All: 27 Warlock here,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am looking for tips on using AE spells. I solo or duo mainly and end up using my single target DD's. So when i find myself in a group, I tend to eventually pull agro and die once or twice when using the AE spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are some tank classes better than others at holding group agro? </DIV> <DIV>Do AE dots generate less agro?</DIV> <DIV>Are their any useful ways of using AE spells that dont involve being beaten on?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have the group root yet so I assume that might be on method... any tips would be appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>1) Below 50- Yes....Guardians Above 50- No</DIV> <DIV>2) No</DIV> <DIV>3) No...because the Absolution line at Adept III+ hits so hard</DIV>

[vorek]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Double....LITHIUM forums SUCK!</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p>Message Edited by vorek on <span class=date_text>11-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 AM</span>

[Max122]

<DIV>Only time I can go all out from begining of the fight to end is a paladin with amends on me.  Now at your level they do have a version of amends but transfers far less hate to the pally but sure will help.  After them in general berserkers have been holding the aggro off me second best followed by guardians for the most part.  There are exceptions though depending on how well people know there classes.  But monks and bruisers can do nothing to hold aggro off you or anyone for that matter in ae encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a 30 Guardian however and I dare the warlocks to grab aggro from me on easy fights so they can tell there limit with me and so I know how hard I need to be casting.  I can say that its way easier to hold aggro off warlock before they the final 3 aes that we get in devastation nil absolution and dark nebula.  Also it depends on the tanks some dont care or dont have the funds to upgrade their taunts and such so if a tank has adept 1 or worse taunts and you have alot of adept 3 or better spells that makes things alot easier for us to take aggro away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Deathspell]

Not to mention that taunts can get resisted, if that happens while you are landing a nuke, it only increases the chance of stealing aggro. It's just bad luck really, nothing to do with the skill or type of the tank. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

Paladins Amends + Troubadurs De-Argo buff are you best friends

[Araxes]

Typically I find berserkers keep me safest.  They seem to hold aggro very well.  Of course this is in the upper level range.  Can't say for what it's like in a lower-level group.  That's not to say Guardians don't hold aggro well.  I merely seem to die less when a zerker is in charge. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Of course.  Playing conservatively is your best bet.  Spacing out the AoE nukes is always prudent.  Unfortunately it takes epic x2 mobs to be able to fully utilize your spell repertoire before the mob dies.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Zerkers definitly best choice for MT for warlock containing group</DIV>

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<div>Zerkers definitly best choice for MT for warlock containing group</div><hr></blockquote>BZZT...wrong.  Paladins are best choice for MT to protect DPS...their hate transfer maintained buff that starts at 21 or 22 is the best tank ability in the game...I can go full boar doing 1500+dps all procs up all area effect spells....NO AGGRO.  A guardian has the best taunts but they don't mean anything if they still can't keep aggro.  30% of my hate goes to a paladin...the end game guardian ability REDUCES the amount of threat something like 20-40% for a target, but does not ABSORB it...Paladin lowers target threat by 30% while absorbing it as his own threat.  It's awesome to watch 2 warlocks in a group, I usually get amends...the other warlock will continually die while I am doing harder dps the entire group ^_^ .</span><div></div>

[Venom]

Paladins can bite my characters evil scaled [Removed for Content].  :smileyhappy: Warlock FTW

[Tanatus]

Well paladin assumed to be a pet not MT <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Venom]

Think just about every class serves the Warlock as a pet.  :smileyvery-happy:  "Yes, just stand in front of the Nightbloods and let them hit you, I'll handle the rest.  The other servant will heal you.  Go forth and serve my bidding, muahaha."

[Ziffna]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Venom47 wrote:<BR>Think just about every class serves the Warlock as a pet.  :smileyvery-happy:  "Yes, just stand in front of the Nightbloods and let them hit you, I'll handle the rest.  The other servant will heal you.  Go forth and serve my bidding, muahaha." <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>/ooc Warlock looking for 5 servents to stand infront of mobs and keep each other alive.<BR><!-- /cache:cache --></DIV>

[-Karofin-]

<DIV>nOOb lvl 33 Warlock here just trawling the boards to learn basically what my Warlock is all about as I approach t5.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a T6 Paladin though and must say that with Amends there isnt a character in the game that can maintain aggro from me.  At Adept III it takes 41% of a targets hate so is simply superb.  We tested it with a well kitted out ranger and I opened with a dmg spell then both my taunts and a shield bash that also adds hate, then sat there.......... and sat there.................... and sat there.......... hehe.   The mobs was yellow ^^^ to use so wasnt a killer but i didnt taunt or cast once more until the end of the fight and no aggro was lost.... the spell is THAT GOOD !.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sadly though a lot of Paladins dont realise its strength so be sure to mention it to them if your grouped.  I guarantee u wont take aggro from them even on all out DPS.  The little Quan I usually play with loves this spell more than any other, even our furies invis hehehe.  Hope thats useful info.</DIV>

[vorek]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Ziffnabb wrote: <P> </P> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>/ooc Warlock looking for 5 servents to stand infront of mobs and keep each other alive.</FONT><BR><!-- /cache:cache --></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>My NEW LFG shout....all day long.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is funny as hell...and sadly true.<BR></DIV>

[Oakbr]

<i>Also it depends on the tanks some dont care or dont have the funds to upgrade their taunts and such so if a tank has adept 1 or worse taunts and you have alot of adept 3 or better spells that makes things alot easier for us to take aggro away.</i> Tanks that  don't care should be forcibly re-rolled as [Removed for Content] gnome tradeskill wretches, and required to transfer to a roleplay server. Those that have Adept 1 or lower taunts should be reported to their union, or otherwise encouraged to upgrade--perhaps by mentioning the mandatory [Removed for Content] gnome reroll should they be deemed uncaring. Pally tanks are the Warlock's best friend, and vice versa.  Note the classes of my two "main" toons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[stoggy]

<P>it depends on which person the paly has amends on ... if he puts it on the warlock the ranger or the wizard can steal aggro and vice versa.</P> <P> </P> <P>guards and zerkers make good tanks for warlocks too depends more on the player then the class.</P> <P> </P> <P>a good thing to remember if there are fewer then 3 mobs its better to cast single target nukes then your group nukes simply because the group nukes take to long to cast and cost to much mana.  you can cast 2 nukes in the time it takes to get 1 group nuke off and the group nuke costs about the same mana as those 2 nukes you just cast resulting in less damage for more mana.  i like to put my dots on the extra monster and cast my nukes on the one the tank is on this way i can burn down each monster in turn and basically never draw aggro.  if there are 3 or more monsters then i usually start with the group stun and then debuff the monster the tank is on cast a dot then cast my group nuke, then keep casting single target nukes till the tanks monster is dead then i can go crazy.  never draw aggro and kill like mad.</P> <P> </P> <P>if you use lots of group nukes to fast you will draw aggro on one of the extra monsters causeing the tank to run after it and then probably drawing aggro on the monster the tank was originally on so dont do it.  If you are a tank and are reading this after lvl50 if a warlock is drawing aggro on groups of monsters its because of devastation ... dont change targets dont help the warlock by the time the extra monsters get to him they are almost dead anyways he can stun or root if necessary and kill it probably with 1 or maybe 2 spells just stay where you are ... otherwise the warlock will end up with all the monsters (exception would be raids in which case he will be dead before you get to him so dont move).</P>

[Plague Mast]

<P>Agreed, if the tank is effective in any way just about any healer can keep me standing as I burn down half of a yellow heroic group.  Most times I'll live without it.  Personally I save my stuns for when I have agro, unless the tank is in jeapardy. </P> <P>Getting a mob or two on you when fighting a group encounter is not that big of a deal (unless epic or orange +).  If its orange or red, you likely don't hit the mobs enought to pull them off of good tanks, and if they are epic well your dead.  Personally, I hit my two bonus damage spells, stun ae the mob, and then burn them down with my big ae's.  By the time one or two agro me, at least one is a nuke away from death, or they die as they are running to me.</P> <P>The biggest key for us is playing with a a tank that group taunts and taunts immediately and then rips through their bashes and knockdowns, followed by other combat arts.  This flurry usually allows the mage to get casting early.  This shoot an arrow at a mob and 10 seconds later start hitting it stuff is what gets you agro.</P><p>Message Edited by Plague Master on <span class=date_text>11-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:56 AM</span>

[Salim]

with my lvl 24 warlock i solo mobs that are 25-27 ^^^ herocis easy just use the root nuke tactic the snare that procs off FM will keep you safe to reroot before they get to you

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Salimon wrote:with my lvl 24 warlock i solo mobs that are 25-27 ^^^ herocis easy just use the root nuke tactic the snare that procs off FM will keep you safe to reroot before they get to you <div></div><hr></blockquote>/cheer for you?</span><div></div>

[Galn]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Max122 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Only time I can go all out from begining of the fight to end is a paladin with amends on me.  Now at your level they do have a version of amends but transfers far less hate to the pally but sure will help.  After them in general berserkers have been holding the aggro off me second best followed by guardians for the most part.  There are exceptions though depending on how well people know there classes.  But monks and bruisers can do nothing to hold aggro off you or anyone for that matter in ae encounters. <FONT color=#ff9900>Um, well I have a 31 monk and a 29 Warlock, so I'm familiar with both classes. I was playing my monk when he first hit 30 and I was in a group of 6, There was a lvl 32 warlock, a lvl 31 swashy, a 29 paladin, and 2 healers in the group. Since I wsa higher level than the paladin we set me as MT. We took on the groups of heroic giants in TS and not once did I lose aggro on any of the giants. I was really wondering if the warlock and swashy were holding back and asked them. The warlock player told me he was starting off with neg abs and dark dist. in every fight, and the swashy was even unloading as fast as possible. Now, I was pulling with my AOE Taunt (Adept I) and imediately following that with my aoe attack, then doing what I learned on the monk boards. I'd attack one mob with one of my bigger attacks, tab, attack, tab, attack, etc etc. So if the monk player knows what they are doing they can hold aggro very well. Playing my warlock tonight I was grouped with a 31 defiler, 31 Monk and 32 Paladin again. I pulled mobs off the MT monk all night when we fought group mobs. I'd simply root the mob and back off and then keep nuking. I am going to educate the monk in proper group tanking next time I see them on. :smileytongue:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I have a 30 Guardian however and I dare the warlocks to grab aggro from me on easy fights so they can tell there limit with me and so I know how hard I need to be casting.  I can say that its way easier to hold aggro off warlock before they the final 3 aes that we get in devastation nil absolution and dark nebula.  Also it depends on the tanks some dont care or dont have the funds to upgrade their taunts and such so if a tank has adept 1 or worse taunts and you have alot of adept 3 or better spells that makes things alot easier for us to take aggro away. <FONT color=#ff9900>I usually tell all the dps people to ramp up until they start taking aggro and then back off a step, but havent had them get to the point where they steal aggro yet so its been moot. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Way back when I was a baby brawler I learned the trick of pulling with a taunt. The monk tonight was pulling with an attack, and it showed. If your tank is pulling with a bow or an attack ask them to change to a taunt or at least have the taunt be the second thing they do, and you may see a difference in how much you can unload without stealing aggro from them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[Salim]

<DIV>crono your an idiot all you do is get mad wehn people try to help people with soloing tactics he asked how people play i told him quit being an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</DIV>

[Quinan Bellatrix]

<P>Since the OP mentioned duo - Paladin, hands down.</P> <P> </P> <P>There is no better tanking class in the game for duos or trios than a Paladin.  Heals, wards and most of all Amends (Redemption at lower levels)  make him the safest bet for a warlock in smaller groups.  In larger groups (4-6) Paladins are not so well off.  They should hold aggro about as well as most tanks but will struggle a bit more to maintain it because of the variety of DPS classes.   Thing to remember when Amends is placed on you, that Paladin is begging you to out DPS the rest of the group members, otherwise it doesn't work so well.  When playing my Paladin and I have a warlock in the group, I generally send him a tell at the beginning and say I want Devastation cast when I call incoming.  No other tank will say that, but a Pally might.  The more hate you generate, the better off you and the rest of the group is.  Usually after I send them that tell I get a smiley in return :p</P> <P> </P> <P>But Amends goes the other way too.  In larger groups with lots of DPS it is the person who has Amends on them who almost has to out-hate the rest of the group members (other than the Pally) or aggro can get wonky.  If you get lots of resists, if the encounter is single target and there is a Wiz or Ranger in the group, and worse, you take a ninja AFK for a second or two - aggro will have a good chance of flying around a bit.  When playing my warlock I test the tank's aggro all the time and he should appreciate it.  It lets him know how far he has to work at maintaining aggro for the group and also how much you can dish out.</P> <P> </P> <P>Digby - 58 Paladin on Permafrost</P> <P>Tantallon - 47 Warlock on Permafrost</P> <P> </P>

[Galap]

Well, I can say from experience that if you pull 3 more heroic groups that respawned without your knowledge just barely within range with your Abyssmal Fury, no tank can save you.  On the bright side, a lot of players aren't bright enough to figure out how you just really screwed up monumentally.

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galapas wrote:<BR>Well, I can say from experience that if you pull 3 more heroic groups that respawned without your knowledge just barely within range with your Abyssmal Fury, no tank can save you.  On the bright side, a lot of players aren't bright enough to figure out how you just really screwed up monumentally. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Rofl did this my first time on one of the three named at end of poets, ooooops! Still doesnt beat my enchanter AE Vox while we were prepping at the Goblins pit. Oh I only killed maybe 50 players or so with that little mistake :p

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Salimon wrote:<div>crono your an idiot all you do is get mad wehn people try to help people with soloing tactics he asked how people play i told him quit being an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</div><hr></blockquote>Judges say...NO~ I just get tired of people boasting about how they killed heroics or named solo...any mage class can do this, and just about any class [period] can do it too.  You think you can solo?  Go watch a summoner...they are so powerful right now they make sorcerors look like enchanters without utility.  700dps on raids, solo most everything, heal, Dark hearts, COTH, the list goes on... Bottom line is everyone can do what you can do, and most can probably do it better.  Also to note is...mobs get harder.</span><div></div>

[Tanatus]

Well bud but lets be completely honest ... summoners cannt take out casting named ...... coercer can <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> because per se coercer is nowdays summoner with special perks but w/o pet heal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <DIV>As for none casting named <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I bet as warlock I can kill it faster then conjurer or necro (personally I prefer not touch named casters even with 10feet pole unless I am playing my coercer ... then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> they are my primary farming animals <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>