Dueling is a joke for Warlock

[TheSlashman]

<P>Is Tanatus playing a different version of EQ2 or is he playing with a bunch of Noobs?</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks for helping me in this post Xede.   8^)</P>

[Deathspell]

I'm not an experienced solo'r and I guess not all monks are the same, but how do you solo a monk? They have several stuns/kickbacks, 0.2sec casting timers.... and my root doesn't hold a second. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Xede that a BUG - VI did not worked as intended in PvP pasify mean = stop everything but movement - no spells, no specials, no autoattack.</DIV> <DIV>Doh want simple test - pick any casting mob of your choice and pull it with VI and watch what mob will do and how much damage you'll get in next 5.1s after spell lands...</DIV> <DIV>FYI</DIV> <DIV>STUN - stop mob from any form of attack and any form of movment - dont brakes if mob take damage</DIV> <DIV>PACIFY - stop mob from any form of attack but do not prevement movement - dont brakes if mob take damage</DIV> <DIV>STIFLE - stop mob special attacks and spell casting do not prevent autoattack and movement - dont brake if mob take damage</DIV> <DIV>MEZ - stop mob from any form of attack and movment - brakes if mob take any damage to HP or Power Pool</DIV> <DIV>ROOT - stop mob from any form of movement do not prevent any autoattack within melee range do not prevent spell casting (well before LU11 or LU12 it did) or specials - can brakes if mob affected by any hostile spell</DIV> <DIV>Dude <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have BOTH coercer and warlock and believe me I know what coercers spell can and cannt do </DIV> <DIV>Again FYI</DIV> <DIV>Coercer can use single target mez trough nearly every existing in game impairment .... save interupt or pacify (if it work properly) - take 1.5s to cast (compare to VI = 0.5s)</DIV> <DIV>Coercer have 1 uninteruptable stun perplexity but its upgrade is interuptible - take 3s to cast and it will stun you for 6.9s</DIV> <DIV>Coercer (if he have like mine M1 quality spells lol) - can drain within first 14s of combat nearly 3K power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically you'll have russian rulet;</DIV> <DIV>You need to guess what spell coercer have on querry - if mez - then VI will help you if its perplexity then TT. Its dilema - perplexity can be stoped with TT but cannt be stoped with VI and Mez can be stoped with VI but cannt be stoped with TT. If either of spells stick on you before you get Devastation or DI off - you lose</DIV>

[yodamite]

Dueled a zerker and won. Kinda buggy as at times it wouldn't let me cast any spells but i got off all my dots and nuked him once or twice.

[maddawg138]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Xede that a BUG - VI did not worked as intended in PvP pasify mean = stop everything but movement - no spells, no specials, no autoattack.</DIV> <DIV>Doh want simple test - pick any casting mob of your choice and pull it with VI and watch what mob will do and how much damage you'll get in next 5.1s after spell lands...</DIV> <DIV>FYI</DIV> <DIV>STUN - stop mob from any form of attack and any form of movment - dont brakes if mob take damage</DIV> <DIV>PACIFY - stop mob from any form of attack but do not prevement movement - dont brakes if mob take damage</DIV> <DIV>STIFLE - stop mob special attacks and spell casting do not prevent autoattack and movement - dont brake if mob take damage</DIV> <DIV>MEZ - stop mob from any form of attack and movment - brakes if mob take any damage to HP or Power Pool</DIV> <DIV>ROOT - stop mob from any form of movement do not prevent any autoattack within melee range do not prevent spell casting (well before LU11 or LU12 it did) or specials - can brakes if mob affected by any hostile spell</DIV> <DIV>Dude <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have BOTH coercer and warlock and believe me I know what coercers spell can and cannt do </DIV> <DIV>Again FYI</DIV> <DIV>Coercer can use single target mez trough nearly every existing in game impairment .... save interupt or pacify (if it work properly) - take 1.5s to cast (compare to VI = 0.5s)</DIV> <DIV>Coercer have 1 uninteruptable stun perplexity but its upgrade is interuptible - take 3s to cast and it will stun you for 6.9s</DIV> <DIV>Coercer (if he have like mine M1 quality spells lol) - can drain within first 14s of combat nearly 3K power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically you'll have russian rulet;</DIV> <DIV>You need to guess what spell coercer have on querry - if mez - then VI will help you if its perplexity then TT. Its dilema - perplexity can be stoped with TT but cannt be stoped with VI and Mez can be stoped with VI but cannt be stoped with TT. If either of spells stick on you before you get Devastation or DI off - you lose</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>im telling you id like to see you duel either spikke or xelus anytime anywhere and see the results....you are a [Removed for Content]</DIV> <DIV>you do not seem to grasp the concept of 1.5 sec cast compared to a 3-4 second cast....ooo we can interrupt a coercer once...then from there we are done for. you constantly bring up the .5 VI compared to a 1.5 mez....pacify will not prevent them from casting a spell. everywhere i've read pacify means the person cannot auto attack, it does not prevent special abilities or spells. and considering i only raid and never group i cant tell you if i see any difference for VI as the pacify doesnt effect epic targets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are reminding me more and more of Emanji that tends to talk out of his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and doesn't know facts.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Xede you idiot learn to read </P> <P>VI = 0.5s cast, TT = 0.0s cast. DI =2.0s, Torment = 1.0s, Thwart = 2.0s (DI+Torment+Thwart if they lands = dead coercer)</P> <P>Spellbend =1.5s, Perplexity = 3.0s</P> <P> Dude I dont [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing care what you read - if I'd be you I'd be ashamed be in top raiding guild on sever and have ZERO clue how different impairment work in EQ2. But you none the less have excuse you never played coercer. Dude dont be a clown go to POF with your warlock target Windsister Dustfeather or Goblin Shamaner or Goblin Diabolis lol hell any casting mob - cast VI and see how many spell mob will cast - NONE NADA ZERO. Dont trust your own eye? fine ask Amensiac - how many spells he was able cast trough mine VI then we dueled - NONE</P> <DIV>Hell I honestly cannt recall if SOE fixed cheap trick how you can dodge ANY form of mez .... (manastone) - but if you want to beat coercer straight you still can do that - its pure luck you just need to make right guess what coercer have on querry - Perplexity or SpellBend. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[maddawg138]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P> Hell I honestly cannt recall if SOE fixed cheap trick how you can dodge ANY form of mez .... (manastone) - but if you want to beat coercer straight you still can do that - its pure luck you just need to make right guess what coercer have on querry - Perplexity or SpellBend. </P> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>i know about the manastone trick...but i dont have that item as its useless for a warlock with our own power conversion spell</P> <P> </P> <P>again i dont duel its pointless and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] IMO and if they changed how pacify works then be it...the spell is still useless to me</P>

[maddawg138]

<DIV>ok i just TESTED this with spikke and he can verify</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did VI on him right away...he still was able to cast SPELLBIND when PACIFIED so therefore dreamtwister your statement is null and void =) again dont talk to me about defeating a coercer when menia isnt [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as a coercer</DIV>

[smile]

I can mez through that pacify spell along with any other stun/stiffle you throw at me.<div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>That mean that pacify line still broken in duel unfortunally - it work as intended in PvE aka stop everything but movment. I did test it 1 days ago on Creature of Beauty - nope no casting, no specials, no auto-attack... nothing except mob immideatly got [Removed for Content] and charged me lol...</P> <P>Once again I cann't confirm or deny that manastone been fixed - it use to be that way... Also you might want to consider precast Endow Energy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> about 5s before duel starts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - that is totaly legit</P>

[smile]

Well if thats how pacify works then it sounds like a stun, in which case, I can mez through it. Anyway, it doesn't mater, the fact is that I can mez while pacified.<div></div>

[Crono1321]

LoL  I see..so when Tanatus is wrong it means the spell is broken. Just because a mob doesn't cast doesn't mean he CANT.  Let us take the bug that was here for about 8 months...caster mobs unable to cast while rooted?  Enough said. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

Jeez ppl pick ANY casting mob  - hell even wondering djinns in Poets good example and cast VI on it and see if you get any spell or special or any damage from mob in next 5.1s

[maddawg138]

<DIV>are you an idiot....can you not read? Coercers can mez while pacified that is the arguement not about casting it on a mob. i could give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if it works on a casting mob or not...its the fact it doesnt work on a coercer is the point. stop always trying to sound right when you know for a fact you are in the wrong.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Can you read stupid donkey - PACIFY = STOP ALL CASTING SPECIAL AUTOATTACK  = "true"<BR>Coercer CAN CAST MEZ TRUE PACIFY = "true"  because coercer nature of mez allow cast this spell true any impairment - capish? </DIV>

[t0iletduck]

That doesnt make any sense. Unless true=through but its still hazy. I think the point xede was making is that a coercer can mez while under pacify. I read this post because the subject was about dueling. I do have to agree, warlocks get the shaft for dueling. As a defiler, dueling a warlock is pretty easy. Shaman noxious resists are really high, so if i don't flat out resist a spell, the wards take care of the rest. Now i must say I agree with xede about dueling a coercer who knows what they are doing. It's really fun dying without being able to get off a single offensive spell. I have a stun/stifle/mez/root/pacify cure, but alas it has a 2 minute recast so im promptly mez'd or stifled before i can get a spell off. It's just a frustrating slow death hehe. <div></div>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>Pacify is actually broken in Player versus ENEMY, the mobs for some reason aren't casting through it or using combat abilities like they are intended to (they used to, don't remember when it stopped or what triggered it to break), but pacify means that the person or mob shouldn't be able to auto-attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're wrong, give up =)</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<P>Pacify in EQ2 is not something like Pacify in EQ1 and it indeed should stop everything plus READ what is spell explanation of VI</P> <P>Just to remind you what is state</P> <P>VI = INTERUPT  AND PACIFY target (no specialls, no spells, no autoattacks)</P> <P>TT=INTERUPT AND STIFLE target (no specials, no spells, autoattack possible)</P>

[Moonspark]

<DIV>Do you even know what an interrupt is?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop, seriously, everyone is saying you're wrong and you just keep on yappin.</DIV>

[t0iletduck]

lol, I can't wait for his retort. <div></div>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<P>I do find that pacify does infact stop all hostile actions from mobs in PVE.</P> <P>Considering this is a "upgrade" to TT, i would hope it would no get worse by not blocking casting.</P> <DIV>Having played coercer, templar, and warlock, Pacify does block mob casting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To me, i belive it is intended to work as Tanatus has discribed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think Pacify is an improved from of Stifle, as it also blocks the auto attack. If Pacify is ment to solely block auto attack, then it's use is extremely low.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar's get a 12second pacifiy (durration increases with higher level versions i think), which stops all hostle actions of mobs solong as they are not hit, basically a small duration mess with movability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If in an arena setting, Pacify could stop your foe from casting, but would not restrict his movement, so he could go gather potions, where as mess makes the foe stationary as well as incapacitated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since Illusionist and Coercer's mess cant be interupted (illusionists can even cast theirs while moveing, VERY handy in pvp), it's  mute point weather Pacify should or shouldnt stop casting in a Enchanter vs Warlock duel.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, i find a Illusionist with their Personae can be a nasty mix ^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toodles!</DIV>

[Tiranus62]

Hello, What about starting duel with (netherous realm preload) : * Null Carress (1s cast, 2sec stun) * Thwart (2sec cast, 4sec stun) * Devastation (4sec cast) For a total off aprox 4K damages and a new 'auto' stun (from devastation) 6 secondes later. Can be continued with Vulian (for those how are interruptable and pacifyable) then Null distortion for another 2K-2.5k I never test this combinaison, it's just an idea reading spells stats.

[RFMan]

<div></div>To clear up something, Tanatus, interrupt does NOT mean "cannot cast spells".  It interrupts the one being casted.  Just like you can't interrupt a conversation that's not going on, you also can't interrupt a spell that's not being casted, so it wouldn't make any sense for interrupt to mean "no casting". <div></div><p>Message Edited by RFMan on <span class=date_text>12-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>Tiranus it<EM> would</EM> work if other classes would not have stuns/stifles that take 0.2-0.5s to cast...Which lead us to problem before you even get spell off you will be stuned or stifled. Second problem is fact that aside of cast and recast timer exist 1 more timer called "recovery timer" 0.5s. I use to be able cast Devastion + Dark Investation while target under Vullian Intrusion (use to be 7.7s) - not anymore</P> <P>Nul Careless thou allow you sometime pull dirty trick <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - if you lucky you can trow you opponent outside of dueling circle and if its happend you won by defualt. There is a catch thou - you cannt use this spell in crowed areas because it will agro everything around. Also bear in mind that bralwers are immune to stun, stifle, pacify, root and mez (which is sucks to casters). Bear also in mind that Combat Arts can be used in a movement ... spells are not thus any attacks that carry knock back will interupt you casting instantly</P> <P>In past one combo worked more or less decently</P> <P>Precast Neth Realm and start mushing buttom of Tongue Twist (0.0s casting time) after that you have 2.5s to do what you ever you want.... You can go with Thwart and now you have 3.5s to do anything you want (if stun stick) now you can land Dark Nebula and if its stick you have 3.4 more second to do something and you best bet would be Dark Investation which leave you 0.9 second to cast your last spell which could be Netherous Lord or Scrouge of Shadow. If things goes well you will do ~500 damage with TT (proc on NR) around 1.1K with Thwart around 1.3K with Dark Nebula (800 with spell and 500 from NR proc) - which is almost 3K damage sticking DI or/and SoS should give you enouth damage to kill most of chars specially if DI proc broodling</P> <P>Problems:</P> <P>TT will not stop autoattack - thus you can and will get interupted</P> <P>If you fighting priest they have [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] load of wisdom which translate ungodly resistance to all</P> <P>If you fight melee - they all have stuns, stifle, interputs, pasifys that have casting time 0.2-0.5s - you give em 1 chance to cast - you dead</P> <P>Imo if not resistance factor priests would be easiest prey for warlocks - monks are worst</P>

[DearthofWeal]

Tanatus makes me sad..  Can he re-roll something un-related (perhaps a tradeskiller?) and go on their forums?  A place where there'll never be a reason for him to come back? I hate looking at the title underneath his name and seeing Lord..<span>:smileysad:  Lord Warlock!?!?!  /gag</span> Anyway, it was my understanding that Netherous Realm was meant to proc off of poison (now disease, too) based spells?  Would make that whole pre-cast Neth Realm into TT damage boost kinda moot, eh?  TT is magic-based.. haven't tested it, but.. well Oh.. and.. Warlock played to best of ability Vs Coercer played to best of ability.. no other variables (possible aggro mobs, Mod rods etc.) the coercer would win EVERYTIME.  Even using the manastone trick to break a mez you'll still be stifled --- then mezzed again.. Straying back to the thread topic -- Warlocks are craptastic in duels.. Hear we do pretty well in our designed role, though (DPS).  If WINNING duels is your thing I'd definitely suggest a bruiser or coercer (or the Pok-e-mon pets). Stay on target! <div></div>

[DearthofWeal]

Pacify - Prevents enemy from Attacking Attacking != Casting (Notice the language which SOE uses.. Cacophony of Blades and Precision of the Maestro differences come to mind) The mobs don't attack because of basic AI. That AI is (and always has been) --  Mob : If interrupted <ul> <li>    Charge in for Melee!</li> </ul> Mob : If uninterrupted <ul> <li>    Finish casting spell</li> <li>    Charge in for Melee!</li> </ul> Mob : If rooted and interrupted <ul> <li>Do nothing for a second</li> <li>One more second of nothingness</li> <li>Cast spell</li> <li>Apply process 1, 2 or 3 </li> </ul> Vulian Intrusion : <b>Instantly interrupts and pacifies</b> the warlock's target for a brief duration with a small amount of magic damage. So, using my logic (I know i'm right because I'm better than you and I know it).. the reason mobs don't cast spells after a pacify is -- dun da duh! -- They're basically stupid! Sounds like someone i kn-- ok folks!  That's my thoughts on the subject! <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>We already got over it ...</P> <P>Vs Coercer you have some chances if you play smart.....</P> <P>Precast Endow Energy target self (dot that will negate BOTH mez that coercer have) and start attack from Netheros Lord/Scouge of Shadow</P> <P>Once coercer uninteruptiable stun ware off (yes one of coercers stuns can be cast on the run) proceed with Thwart-Dark Nebular and be ready to use manastone to brake Spell Bind as soon as it lands once you are out mez Dark Investation will your best bet</P> <DIV>Coercer have 2 godly good things for PvP - a) mez that can be casted under any impairment b) uninteruptible stun </DIV> <DIV>Bear in mind coercer can drain from you within first 14s of combat ~3K power directly and lower your int by 115 (extra 690 more power)</DIV>

[Dudd]

<DIV>I can tell you all from experience that pacify does not allow you to cast, because as a monk, the only time I lose to wizzyswarlocks is if they get their pacify off before I get my arctic talon off...both instant casts...So when I get pacified I can do nothing, get rooted, and get nuked...</DIV>