Warlock comments and Issues

[Ci]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>Here is a little list of what I've found of issues, and what I like/don't like <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> First a judgement of how I find the game atm <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I should say Im in fully fabled stuff, and got nothing but ad3 and m1s. And I havent tried playing <lvl 50 for ages, so all my comments are 50+ <font color="#ff0000" size="6">Solo:</font> <font color="#66ff00">Playability: </font>Must say I dont find much difference here than Pre-Dof. Solo mobs can still woop my royal [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if I'm not awake, and on the other hand, they die very fast if I am <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I dont really much like soloing, so I only do it when there is nothing better to do. I can still kill some heroics, if I can toss the AE's on them, but I die to often for it to be good xp. Grade: A <font color="#66ff00">XP:</font> Decent, Grade B (about 5-7%/hour) <font color="#ff0000" size="6">Duo:</font> <font color="#66ff00">Playability: </font>Don't really find much difference here either. Except that tank/warlock duos are now impossible, because the tank dies way to fast. Healer/war duos are nice, so are wiz/war, and both allow you to chain kill heriocs if you choose them carefully, and don't have adds. Grade: A <font color="#66ff00">XP:</font> Decent, Grade B+ (About 10-12%/hour) <font color="#ff0000" size="6">Trio:</font> <font color="#66ff00">Playability: </font>For most group setups, this I feel is almost similar to Pre-Dof aswell. Tried War/Wiz/healer, War/Scout/healer, War/tank/healer and all of them were great success. Again, can't take down everything with the first two, but when you do, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] its fast kills. Killing with a scout is funny, because they can actually hold aggro pretty well now, chainkilled spiders at Tarantula until there were no more around, and had great fun. Tank/healer/war is classic safe trio, and I must say that it depends alot on which tank class you choose. - Tried with Bruiser, can't hold aggro for 10 sec on single mobs, and forget about aggro holding on group mobs. - Tried with Zerker, they can hold aggro for a while, both single and group, but the healer has to spamheal to keep them up, making it hard for them to heal me when I get aggro. - Tried with SK, decent single target aggro, a tad better than bruiser, but not much- Tried with Paladin, decent aggro, but whats more important is the Amends spell which transfers my aggro to him which makes for great aggro in a large group, but not much difference in a trio. - Tried with Guardian, which is by far the best IMHO. Great single target aggro, and decent AE aggro, plus the healer has surplus to spamheal me when I do get aggro. Can do most dmg here without getting myself killed by far. Assugage is a great spell, I dont understand why the paladin is 42% to him, and 42% away from me, and the guardian is only 28% away from me. Seems rather unfair to the guardian. Grade: A <font color="#66ff00">XP:</font> Great! Grade A (15-20%/hour) <font color="#ff0000" size="6">4-6 people groups:</font> <font color="#66ff00">Playability: </font>What I said about the tanks hold mostly here aswell. But I find it annoying to be in large groups, and the larger the more annoying. The problem is multifold. If we are killing a +++, then my rampup-time to do any dmg at all means the mob is mostly halfdead already, and my dps sucks (well it doesn't according to parsers, but it feels that way). On the other side we got group mobs, if you target whatever the tank is targeting you will never do any dps at all, because the mob is simply dead before you ever get one of your AEs off. This also means that the good tanks doesnt have time to taunt all the mobs in the group, because they have to use their single target taunts on the main target or the scout gets aggro. Grade: C <font color="#66ff00">XP:</font> Extremely bad. Grade F (4% per hour in a full group) <font color="#ff0000" size="6">Raids:</font> <font color="#66ff00">Playability: </font>Raids are certainly the most changed combat situation there is in the game. Most of them are like this: "Tank (lvl 60 offcourse, anything else is utterly useless) pulls, tank dies, raid dies, retry", and after 4-5 rounds of that, you get lucky and healers get some spamheals in before tank dies, and in some cases, tank actually survives first 30 sec when the debuffs from all the raiders pour in. As for my own situation when the pull goes well, is about the same as pre-dof, except I die fast if I overaggro, but that is less likely now. Grade: Gonna give it a F- becuase of the overall pull, die, retry. As for warlocks in raids, a B. <font color="#66ff00">XP:</font> Worse than extremely bad: Grade Z (if you get 0.000000001% for every 10% debt, you are more than extremely lucky) <font color="#ffff00" size="6">Warlock Issues: <font color="#ffffff" size="3">Sorry about all the comparisons to wizards, couldn't help myself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Overall, Im very happy about all the changes made to us, but lots of tiny details that needs to be fixed still <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </font></font><font color="#66ff00"> Bony grasp/Skeletal graps: </font>The rendering speed of this spell became better with DoF, but it can still sink many machines to a crawl on 4-5 mobs. The upgrade from bony to skeletal is very bad, goes from 50s to 60s hold, which are both quite decent <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And personally I really like that it can break, makes it much more fun to play with <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> There is however a problem. Compared to the Wizard counter theirs is alot better, with a 12 sec slow by 53% when breaking the spell. Why was a similar proc left out of the Warlock version?<font color="#ff99ff">LU 16: Bony Grasp now has a slightly shorter maximum duration. It lasts longer than Ring of Cold, which has an additional effect. Bony Grasp is also slightly harder to break.</font> Will update when I've tried it out, still sounds like the wizards get the much better version though <font color="#66ff00">PF/Cower: </font>Nice spells, much much much better than pre-DoF. Compared to the wizard ones it sucks though. My master 1 cower is 50% chance to slow by 35% + make afraid for 4 seconds. The wizard is 100% chance to slow by 49% (at ad3) for 10 seconds. Doesnt seem balanced. And for some very odd reason the level barriers were removed from beta to live, so a 60 warlock might aswell use Frozen Menacles, since the slow is more reliable, cost less power and is cheaper to get upgrade at your local sage. Not many will notice the 30 to 60sec duration upgrade anyway. <font color="#ff99ff">LU16: - The snare effect of Paralyzing Fear now increases properly with spell scroll upgrades.</font> Sound good <font color="#66ff00">Freeze/FF/Deter/Twart:</font> First issue with these is that the casttime of freeze is 1sec, whereas all the upgrades are 2sec and stun duration is 2/3/3.5/4sec, and recast of freeze is 15sec compared to 30sec on the others, so any sane warlock would use freeze all the time. And IMHO these spells does way too much damage, would be more than happy to cut power cost in half, casttime in half and recast in half along with damage in half.<font color="#ff99ff">LU16: - Freeze now has a cast and recast time similar to its Wizard and Warlock upgrades.</font> Ohh well <font color="#66ff00">Vulian line:</font> Really nice spell line. Don't see why it has a damage effect though when its not more than 50. Tongue Twist does stiffle, but upgrades do pacify, which is nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Does nothing in PVP, think its a bug. <font color="#66ff00">Seal line:</font>This is a buff which has many warlocks wondering. From experience there is ZERO difference with it on or off, so utterly useless. Tried on greys, greens, blue, white, yellow, orange, reds. Solo, heroics, epics. Mobs with poison resists and without... ZERO difference <font color="#66ff00">Netheros:</font> I got my nice netheros in master 1. But I have to say this is one of the more useless spells I have. It doesn't do any dps, on a lvl 45 (with me 55) downarrow mob I see it does about 20% dmg to the mob over the intire duration... Using my own melee  I can do alot more than that, and thats with a melee skill thats still somewhere around 180. About the only good thing its good for is pulling a group of mobs that seem to be too farspread to grab with a bonygrasp, but 4 tripple downarrow can kill it in seconds. Sometimes use it to pull harder encounters to get time to cast my debuffs in before he goes on me. Still, the DPS it generates is WAY WAY too low. Btw. Why does netheros use heat based spells? and the spells are same dmg as the autoattack, so why does he even have them? <font color="#66ff00">Dark Infestation:</font> This is a cool spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Use it alot, but it does have some bugs. The pets can spawn many times during the spells duration, and each they do, they reset to original position and seem to take 10-15 sec to get into doing any damage at all, and many mobs are dead long before they get some damage off which makes the proc rather useless. However when they do get to do some damage it seems its rather nice, but really can't say for sure since it happens rarely. Pets doesnt scale with you, they stay at lvl 52 and several warlocks and only spawn one set of mobs, both should be considered bugs.<font color="#ff99ff">LU 16: - Dark Infestation's swarm will now grow with level.</font> YAY! <font color="#66ff00">Null Caress:</font> Unlike Dark infestation which is rather useful, this spell is utterly useless. For soloing, why would I ever use it? A 2 sec stun is hardly enough to get away as an emergency spell, and in the 5-6 attempts I've tried it they all seem to teleport right next to me anyway, nowhere is the average 10m. In groups, if I cast this, the tank [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es at me because it has no value at all. My judgement of this spell is that it needs a serious rethinking <font color="#66ff00">Chaotic Maelstrom:</font> All T6 spells I've seen so far are really nice upgrades, but M1 of the lvl 41 spell has 8% debuff, and ad3 of the 55 spell has 7%. Not gonna upgrade this spell until thats fixed. <font color="#66ff00">Curse of Emptiness/Darkness/Desolation:</font> This is a very close contender to the most useless spell in the game. Make it 0 casttime, and 0 powercost and I might consider casting it once in a blue moon to generate a nil crystal.<font color="#ff99ff">LU16: - Curse of Darkness had its power cost greatly reduced.</font> Well, my comment still holds <font color="#66ff00">Gift line:</font> Very nice spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just one problem with it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Description sounds much like its supposed to trigger on DoT ticks too, but it only works on casting a new spell if its supposed to trigger only on new spells cast can the dmg be upped a bit, please. The power cost of the trigger isnt stated in the actual spell description, so does that work? Another problem is the comparion to the wizard spell of this one. Mine does 43-80 and costs an nil crystal and works only for me, theirs does 171-209, a 1sec 49% slow and works for the whole group, but costs power to cast. That doesn't seem balanced. <font color="#66ff00">Contract line:</font> Also known as canni spells <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This used to be one of the few spells where you actually felt you got something when upgrading to adept3, or master. But now its just as bad on all levels. With my current stats its eats 15% hp and returns 5% power at ad3, and in raids its barely enough to keep me casting my super low power spells. Please give us casters a bit more here, we should be able gain just a tad more power. On a sidenote, I don't mind the Dark Siphon line or the Endow Energy as they currently are. <font color="#66ff00">Aura of nnn:</font> What a super spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Only one minor grief which is when I compare it to the wiz counterpart. Wiz has to be cast on tank, and ours on mob. So whomever triggers the warlock ones gets extra aggro, and the wiz one help tank maintain aggro. Wiz is 501-612 dmg, ours is 391-478 dmg. The Aura line is supposed to be triggered whenever you do damage "When target is damaged with a spell...", however only DD spells proc it. Dots doesn't, not even on cast. Uhh, just saw the inquisitor version, 417-695, 123 power cost, 4 sec stun <font color="#ccff00">Netheros Realm:</font> <font color="#ff99ff">LU16: - Netherous Realm now pulsates 1 trigger every 5 seconds instead of an unlimited amount.</font> Sounds like this spell went from nice (if tanks could hold the aggro) to worthless <font color="#66ff00">Devastation:</font> The spell now has this written in it: "Stuns target - If target is heroic or weaker. Does not affect raid targets". As if I didnt get it the first time <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <font color="#66ff00">Fury line:</font> This is the out-of-encounter AE we get. The top of the line, boundless fury procs with 4*169-314 dmg, or roughly 1k. Given the circumstances you can cast this is, it ought to be alot better once you actually use it, give it a 75% boost and its just fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <font color="#66ff00">All my AEs:</font> The single most frustating thing about casting an AE is the HUGE casttime, and the minute chance that the mob you are targeting is alive once its done casting. Why does it matter that the mob I were targetting specifically is alive, I were trying to hit him and all of his pals, Please change it so you only get "Target is dead" once the whole encounter is dead. <font color="#66ff00">Overall Single Target DPS:</font> Our single target dps isnt the best in the world, it feels slow when you have to have 6 dots/procs running before you actually do any real nukes. Any DPS parse of it shows Im doing alot of dmg, but it just doesnt feel like it. <font color="#66ff00">Level 54 M2 choices:</font> What would you rather have? A minute upgrade to a drain spell? An upgrade to a spell which has no real value according to those testing with and without it? A real nice upgrade to an AE stun/dmg spell? Or finally a pet which does close to no dps? <font color="#66ff00">Utility:</font> Pre-DoF I could say to a wizard, hey I get a bit more dps and you get evac <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now I can say, I got equal dps, and you still got evac... Can I have something too, please? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <font color="#66ff00"> </font><font color="#66ff00">Max int at 7*level:</font> This limit doesnt make any sense, its way too close to what everyone has. If Im nekkid and with e.g. a fury, I'm almost already there. No real point in getting any t6 outfit at all for me so far. Besides the dmg difference from nekkid without buffs to max bonus is rather small. <font color="#66ff00">Deaggro:</font> I don't know what scouts and others get on this, but I know for sure it doesn't require them to get hit to use it. The way this spell is currently I don't ever use it, since it's faster to kill the mobs than wait for the tank to regain aggro. And I do think there is a bug somewhere, I've seen people post screenies where the nullmail is 750ish threat, mine is 550ish. Could it be because it was ad1 before DoF and the other guys was ad3? Another bug is that the spell greys out without a replacement.<font color="#66ff00">Log lines:</font> It would be very nice if our pets could get our name in the logline so its easiere for any parser to sum up the damage. E.g. "Ilee's netheros lord hits some big ugly mob for 150 crushing damage".<font color="#ff0000" size="6">Post LU15:</font>The full group thing is even worse now, I can barely get 2 nukes off before the mobs are dead... I feel so useless <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Done with my ranting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you don't agree, make a constructive comment about what to change!Edit: Forgot paladin, Amends and Assuage commentsEdit: Forgot the Aura triggering bug, added under auraEdit: added pvp bug on vulian line and bugs from Dark inf.Edit: added deaggro comments and bugsEdit: added inquisitor version of auraEdit: Added comment about log lines plus added comment on netherosEdit: LU16 comments <div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Cine on <span class="date_text">10-13-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:55 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Cine on <span class="date_text">10-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:34 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Cine on <span class="date_text">10-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:33 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Cine on <span class="date_text">10-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:11 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Cine on <span class="date_text">10-21-2005</span> <span class="time_text">03:16 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Cine on <span class=date_text>11-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:06 PM</span>

[TheBladesCaress]

Very well written, agree with almost all of it... In Trios... Pally is easiest tank to use, since Ad3 Amends is 41% of your hate to them.  One taunt will be enough to keep aggro.  Personally I dont think this skill is very fair to other tanks... In Cap... I carry a set of +int gear for normal use, and a set of +power gear for when I am grouped with a fury (in raids etc). <div></div>

[Max122]

<DIV>Have do disagree with you on 4-6 person group xp post them fixing the xp for bigger groups.  The right duo/trio groups are best experience for us but I can easily get 10-15% without vitality with a full group.  This is taking huge camps and clearing them out in no time cant believe there are no mobs up half the time when we clear it.  This is a good mixture of groups 2+ mobs and ^^^ single encounters just blowing through them.  Usually one tank can also be a conjurer's pet then 2 or 3 classes good at single dps count a bard in that for power regen, take the bard away add a chanter then a healer and myself I take care of groups just fine by myself and there ya have it.</DIV>

[Raxe Sla]

<DIV>The issues most people can agree I think are these.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  We need disease based spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Our seal line is garbage, give us back our INT buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Curse is also garbage, give us back our debuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4.  The distortion line needs to be on a quicker cast timer by 1 second.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kalel]

<P>This thread expresses my main concerns</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=13375" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=13375</A></P>

[julric]

i agree with all exept the soloability and the full group part. soloing id give an a+ at lvl 49 not i can easily pull 10% an hour ...hell 15% if i try REALLY hard. and full group..HELL....i dont know why i wasnt beafore....in the clefts and a few other places i can pull 20% an hour...WITH NO VITALITY alot of people seem to have a hard time with soloing.....but if you appl yourself and think outside the box...warlocks still rule. oh and even though i hate the cast times in some zones like pillars of flame when you get groups of 2 or 3 mobs that are both ^^ or ^^^ our ae spells kick the crap outa um and nethros (i got the master scroll) hitting for 300 a swing  adds a good 2k damage....i aint complaighning. ya we need fixes and bad....but we still kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] <div></div>

[Panad]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><font color="#ff0000" size="6">4-6 people groups:</font><font color="#66ff00">Playability: </font>What I said about the tanks hold mostly here aswell. But I find it annoying to be in large groups, and the larger the more annoying. The problem is multifold. If we are killing a +++, then my rampup-time to do any dmg at all means the mob is mostly halfdead already, and my dps sucks (well it doesn't according to parsers, but it feels that way). On the other side we got group mobs, if you target whatever the tank is targeting you will never do any dps at all, because the mob is simply dead before you ever get one of your AEs off. This also means that the good tanks doesnt have time to taunt all the mobs in the group, because they have to use their single target taunts on the main target or the scout gets aggro.Grade: C<font color="#66ff00">XP:</font> Extremely bad. Grade F (4% per hour in a full group) <blockquote> <blockquote> N<font color="#6633ff">ot sure about that, depends heavily on the group, downtime and mobs you kill. I can confirm that the giants in that giant "village", hidden inside that rock formation, Kromtarr or so on the map, are really nice exp. Was there twice, last time not for long, zone crashed on us and I decided to log for the night. The first time I was there it was great, had a good group going, about 3-4 dps, myself included, Coercer for power regen and stuns, one healer and a bruiser as MT, had another  bruiser for some time, backup tank-dps. We had NO downtime and killed non-stop, by the time we had cleared the area the first set of giants had repopped. We made about 12% exp or so per hour, no vitality, went from 9% to over 70% that day, had to log bit earlier than the others because of a guild raid and there was the server downtime too but it was great, if I had stayed longer I could have dinged without 2-3 hours.</font> </blockquote> </blockquote> <font color="#66ff00">Bony grasp/Skeletal graps: </font>The rendering speed of this spell became better with DoF, but it can still sink many machines to a crawl on 4-5 mobs. The upgrade from bony to skeletal is very bad, goes from 50s to 60s hold, which are both quite decent <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And personally I really like that it can break, makes it much more fun to play with <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />There is however a problem. Compared to the Wizard counter theirs is alot better, with a 12 sec slow by 53% when breaking the spell. Why was a similar proc left out of the Warlock version?<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6666ff">Because supposedly our root should break half as often as the wizards' root - but that just doesn't hold true. The Grasp breaks so easily it's sad, my Cower usually lasts longer than it. At first - before actually testing it - I thought "k, they get a snare component on theirs but ours should break less, that's fine. By now I`d rather have a snare component too because the "breaks half as often" is utterly useless, at least 50% of the time at least 1 mob in the group breaks at the very first damage.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">PF/Cower: </font>Nice spells, much much much better than pre-DoF. Compared to the wizard ones it sucks though. My master 1 cower is 50% chance to slow by 35% + make afraid for 4 seconds. The wizard is 100% chance to slow by 49% (at ad3) for 10 seconds. Doesnt seem balanced. And for some very odd reason the level barriers were removed from beta to live, so a 60 warlock might aswell use Frozen Menacles, since the slow is more reliable, cost less power and is cheaper to get upgrade at your local sage. Not many will notice the 30 to 60sec duration upgrade anyway.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Have you noticed any difference in resists etc. from Cower to Frozen Manacles? I considered going back to Frozen Manacles or Paralyzing Fear (got Master 1 on that), not sure how big the difference in resists, breaks etc. is though, compared to Cower.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Freeze/FF/Deter/Twart:</font> First issue with these is that the casttime of freeze is 1sec, whereas all the upgrades are 2sec and stun duration is 2/3/3.5/4sec, and recast of freeze is 15sec compared to 30sec on the others, so any sane warlock would use freeze all the time. And IMHO these spells does way too much damage, would be more than happy to cut power cost in half, casttime in half and recast in half along with damage in half.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Actually this "stun" is one of our biggest single-target dmg spells now... *sob* and because of our poison-only spells this is one of the very few spells we can actually use on poison-immune spells, so I'm fine with the way it is now. Our new emergency spell is the Vulian line, which turned out very nice think.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Vulian line:</font> Really nice spell line. Don't see why it has a damage effect though when its not more than 50. Tongue Twist does stiffle, but upgrades do pacify, which is nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">No problem there, great spell now, the about 50 dmg is just kinda pointless - some bad joke?</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Seal line:</font>This is a buff which has many warlocks wondering. From experience there is ZERO difference with it on or off, so utterly useless. Tried on greys, greens, blue, white, yellow, orange, reds. Solo, heroics, epics. Mobs with poison resists and without... ZERO difference<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Definitely our weirdest spells - if it actually works like it should, that'd be nice because it sounds useful, no way to determine it for sure though. Devs, please, finally give us some hard facts on this spell so we can see ourselves if it's broken or not.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Netheros:</font> I got my nice netheros in master 1. But I have to say this is one of the more useless spells I have. It doesn't do any dps, on a lvl 45 (with me 55) downarrow mob I see it does about 20% dmg to the mob over the intire duration... Using my own melee  I can do alot more than that, and thats with a melee skill thats still somewhere around 180. About the only good thing its good for is pulling a group of mobs that seem to be too farspread to grab with a bonygrasp, but 4 tripple downarrow can kill it in seconds. Sometimes use it to pull harder encounters to get time to cast my debuffs in before he goes on me. Still, the DPS it generates is WAY WAY too low.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Always thought of Netheros as some kind of semi-fluff spell. Its dps has definitely increased with LU13, I see it doing 150 dmg spells/attacks from time to time, pretty nice, and it's nice that Protoflame and Netheros finally share same timers - but why does our spell cost nil crystals and got no special effect and protoflame can be used without a component but got that AoE effect if destroyed...? Is Netheros doing more dmg than Protoflame to make up for that? Anyone got parsings on that?</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Dark Infestation:</font> This is a cool spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Use it alot, but it does have some bugs. The pets can spawn many times during the spells duration, and each they do, they reset to original position and seem to take 10-15 sec to get into doing any damage at all, and many mobs are dead long before they get some damage off which makes the proc rather useless. However when they do get to do some damage it seems its rather nice, but really can't say for sure since it happens rarely.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Another problem is that the Dark Broodlings don't scale with you, hope this and the "stuck till they attack after 10 secs" bug will get fixed soon.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Null Caress:</font> Unlike Dark infestation which is rather useful, this spell is utterly useless. For soloing, why would I ever use it? A 2 sec stun is hardly enough to get away as an emergency spell, and in the 5-6 attempts I've tried it they all seem to teleport right next to me anyway, nowhere is the average 10m. In groups, if I cast this, the tank [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es at me because it has no value at all. My judgement of this spell is that it needs a serious rethinking<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Actually the spell is pretty neat for soloing, got it at adept 3, after the teleport the mobs are snared for 91% for 10 seconds, enough time to finish them off or re-root them. In groups it may be a nice rescue spell, if the mobs are beating the healer or the tank just died you can use NC, if you're lucky the mobs get teleported far away, time for the healer to recover or rez the tank. Wasn't able to use it so far though, used it only once in a group so far, just for testing my new emote "/gsay Mob Teleport INC; /useability Null Caress". You should warn the group after all that the mobs will be somewhere else in a sec. Thought the spell was useless but it seems there's actually some use for it after all.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Chaotic Maelstrom:</font> All T6 spells I've seen so far are really nice upgrades, but M1 of the lvl 41 spell has 8% debuff, and ad3 of the 55 spell has 7%. Not gonna upgrade this spell until thats fixed.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">I'd upgrade this spell to adept 3 max, if even that. The debuff upgrades should justify  the upgrade, if they don't I'll leave it - Anarchic Maelstrom  - at adept 1.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Curse of Emptiness/Darkness/Desolation:</font> This is a very close contender to the most useless spell in the game. Make it 0 casttime, and 0 powercost and I might consider casting it once in a blue moon to generate a nil crystal.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Indeed - useless. Debuffing max health for about 500 - a single cast of Soul Flay does that too. And our Curse of Nil line also generates Nil Crystals so you don't have to use Curse of E/D/D for that either unless you're fighting a group and want to get a nil crystal from every mob in the group.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"></font><font color="#66ff00">Contract line:</font> Also known as canni spells <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This used to be one of the few spells where you actually felt you got something when upgrading to adept3, or master. But now its just as bad on all levels. With my current stats its eats 15% hp and returns 5% power at ad3, and in raids its barely enough to keep me casting my super low power spells. Please give us casters a bit more here, we should be able gain just a tad more power. On a sidenote, I don't mind the Dark Siphon line or the Endow Energy as they currently are.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">This line had the crap nerfed outta it.... hardly care to use it now, only when I'm at very low power and even that it doesn't change a lot, the like 200 power it grants isn't even enough to cast one spell. Definitely needs to be upgraded, this line was always a mage-speciality, now everyone with a Manastone can do exactly the same.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Aura of nnn:</font> What a super spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Only one minor grief which is when I compare it to the wiz counterpart. Wiz has to be cast on tank, and ours on mob. So whomever triggers the warlock ones gets extra aggro, and the wiz one help tank maintain aggro. Wiz is 501-612 dmg, ours is 391-478 dmg.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">The line turned out pretty nice - the dmg disparity? Just another imbalance, why even care about it....*sigh* :/</font><font color="#6633ff"></font><font color="#6633ff">Our way of helping the tank maintain aggro is Nihilism - great spell, love the way it was changed, great dmg, please don't change it.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Devastation:</font> The spell now has this written in it: "Stuns target - If target is heroic or weaker. Does not affect raid targets". As if I didnt get it the first time <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Never cared - or noticed - the stun component on Devastation anyway, so no big deal for me, the dmg is much more important.Might consider changing Devastation from the current DoT it is to a DD. Just take the dmg it would have done over it's full duration and pack it into DD. Should help a lot of with breaking roots and it's just be lovely to see big numbers fly, like the wizards do with IC.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you just fix the breaking of our Grasp line though that's fine too. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Fury line:</font> This is the out-of-encounter AE we get. The top of the line, boundless fury procs with 4*169-314 dmg, or roughly 1k. Given the circumstances you can cast this is, it ought to be alot better once you actually use it, give it a 75% boost and its just fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Still at Abysmal Fury, not BF yet so don't know about it, but it's pretty ok for me, the dmg is nice if not great like Devastation or Nil Absolution, but it's got its use. If you get adds - dmg+interrupt them for a few secs, should give the tank a little more time to get aggro. etc.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">All my AEs:</font> The single most frustating thing about casting an AE is the HUGE casttime, and the minute chance that the mob you are targeting is alive once its done casting. Why does it matter that the mob I were targetting specifically is alive, I were trying to hit him and all of his pals, Please change it so you only get "Target is dead" once the whole encounter is dead.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">That is indeed one of our biggest concerns right now - the huge casttime. The only ways you can really get an AE off are if you a. target another mob in the encounter than the tank=not assisting; b. if you start casting as soon as the tank pulls=aggro for you. The AE dmg is really nice but as "AE specialists" we should also be able to cast the spells faster. All that dmg is pointless if you can't get the spell off.</font><font color="#6633ff">Either:</font><font color="#6633ff"></font><font color="#6633ff">- decrease the casting times but 1 or 2 secs, but leave the dmg as it is, we're AE "kings" now as it is, no sense in having us like sissies</font><font color="#6633ff"></font><font color="#6633ff">- change the system of those spells so it doesn't matter which mob in the encounter you cast the spell on. eg. encounter: mobs A, B, C. You cast the spell on B, by the time the casting is done B is dead, so have the spell effect A and C, and not give us this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] "Target is not alive" message.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Overall Single Target DPS:</font> Our single target dps isnt the best in the world, it feels slow when you have to have 6 dots/procs running before you actually do any real nukes. Any DPS parse of it shows Im doing alot of dmg, but it just doesnt feel like it.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Yup, our single target dps has been nerfed bad but it's still not too shabby, I manage (not like I'd actually try to) to steal aggro from the tank sometimes, only using single-target spells.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Level 54 M2 choices:</font> What would you rather have? A minute upgrade to a drain spell? An upgrade to a spell which has no real value according to those testing with and without it? A real nice upgrade to an AE stun/dmg spell? Or finally a pet which does close to no dps?<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Agreed - the 54 choices suck. The use of the Seal Line has still to be confirmed, Netheros is a semi-fluff, semi-DoT spell not worth ugprading to M2, our "utility", the Pillaging line, is pretty sucky, already discussed that in another thread. No sense using it in soloing or grouping and in raiding the minute amounts it drains/grants don't matter crap.  DN and maybe Seal of E.T. (lol "E.T. phone home" <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) are the only viably choices, I went with Seal M2 just for the chance of it having an actual use. Still got my 2nd /respec available, upgraded DN to adept 3 though so don't think I'll change that, don't wanna have the t5 rare go wasted.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Utility:</font> Pre-DoF I could say to a wizard, hey I get a bit more dps and you get evac <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now I can say, I got equal dps, and you still got evac... Can I have something too, please? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Our "utility", the equivalent for evac line, is supposed to be the Pillaging line, get them at the same lvls etc. - it's just not. Again, the only use this line got is in raiding and even then only barely, the amounts drained/granted don't mean crap, might be enough to get a single spell of if even that, and the mob power in the thousands and great regen won`t care a bit about like 500 power lost.  Either trash this line completely and give us evac too or give the spells a substantial boost.</font></blockquote></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Max int at 7*level:</font> This limit doesnt make any sense, its way too close to what everyone has. If Im nekkid and with e.g. a fury, I'm almost already there. No real point in getting any t6 outfit at all for me so far. Besides the dmg difference from nekkid without buffs to max bonus is rather small.<blockquote><blockquote><font color="#6633ff">Well, we don't have the wizards' INT buff so it's harder for us to get to the max, self-equipped (not self-buffed, cause again, we got no INT buff, sad as it is) my INT is somewhere along 270-280 (haven't played in a few days), my current cap is 385, other than in groups or in a raid I won't reach that. I got INT on every single of my items, +10 INT being the minimum, got 10 (or 15? not sure) on both rings, 15 on waist, 16 on chest, 11 on head, bought to rare t6 crafted pieces for legs and  forearms/or shoulders (forget) with +10 or +11 int both, +12 INT in 1st hand, +15 INT in 2nd hand (Fabled totem) etc. Unless you get mostly fableds with +15 INT I don't think you can get to more than 300+ max by yourself.</font></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Panador on <span class="date_text">10-12-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:47 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Panador on <span class=date_text>10-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:47 AM</span>

[Deathspell]

Thank you for putting time and effort in all this. An official reply to your post (other then "we will look into that") would be great, but I can only hope they read it. Can this be stickyfied? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Ci]

 <span><blockquote><hr>Deathspell wrote:Thank you for putting time and effort in all this. An official reply to your post (other then "we will look into that") would be great, but I can only hope they read it. Can this be stickyfied? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Already is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>/agree, nice work.</P> <P>One thing I'd like to say is that my duo xp is greater than trio or group.  Grab a chanter or druid (unbreakable roots!)</P> <P>A couple other things:</P> <P>1.  Power issue -- we have it on raids, alot worse than most classes in fact.</P> <P>2.  Spell Components...wizards do not have to deal with this BS, why should we?  This is specifically annoying for us...huge waste of time.</P> <P>3.  Level 54 Master2 choices are ridiculous.  Not just bad, but really bad.  Wizards can upgrade Ball of Incineration, but we can't Null Distortion?  /thumbs down.</P><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>10-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:00 AM</span>

[EQ-]

<P>Do we take the fact that this is sticky'd to be an indication that the devs agree with our plus and minus points about our class?</P> <P>I really hope so :smileyindifferent:</P>

[Ci]

Nah, I PM'ed our new community guy so he would know the thread was here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Panad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Splatterpunk28 wrote:<div></div> <p>/agree, nice work.</p> <p>One thing I'd like to say is that my duo xp is greater than trio or group.  Grab a chanter or druid (unbreakable roots!)</p> <p>A couple other things:</p> <p>1.  Power issue -- we have it on raids, alot worse than most classes in fact.</p> <p>2.  Spell Components...wizards do not have to deal with this BS, why should we?  This is specifically annoying for us...huge waste of time.</p> <p>3.  Level 54 Master2 choices are ridiculous.  Not just bad, but really bad.  Wizards can upgrade Ball of Incineration, but we can't Null Distortion?  /thumbs down.</p><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class="date_text">10-12-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:00 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>1. Yup, power is a serious problem now, in a group I'm usually the one to run out of power first and the most often... :/ Kinda embarrasing to have the whole group wait just for you to regen. If you got a chanter in the group it's not that big a deal but without one...*shudder* 2. Well, the Nil Crystals are supposed to give us some kind of special thing, the "warlock flavor" or so - I've yet to see it being anything other than a nuisance. Our pet costs a crystal but is lacking the no-component-Protoflame's AE at the end of duration. Being forced to used 2 debuffs you wouldn't use nearly as often just because of the nil crystals - see no point in it. If they really wanna have us use nil crystals - either make the Maelstrom line generate them. I use Anarchic Maelstrom about twice as much as the 2 nil-crystal curses combined - OR change the 2 Curse of lines to something actually useful. Debuffing max health by a minor amount is useless, as is a STR/INT debuff - when the mobs' spells hit in the thousands - much more than players' spells, eg that carpet quest part 3 guy's IC... - they don't care crap about 50-100 less dmg on spells. 3. I guess Dark Nebula is supposed to be our equivalent of the Ball of Incineration lvl 54 M2. Unless the wizards also got an AE in the 54 selection I'm fine with DN<->BoI.</span><div></div>

[V4n]

I haven't seen the power issue as a problem, and would not put this as a high priority from my perspective.  A few regen items, good drink, and a Fury in your group is all you need I think. I would be careful in using rate of experience gain as a measure. Yes some scenarios are better than others for warlocks, but overall we don't have it as bad as some other classes.  There are only 10 new levels in the game, however slow or fast you gain experience, you will be at the new level cap soon enough. So my top priorities are:  - Shorter cast times (make the game more fun)  - More useful spells  53-60 (give us more to look forward to) On the latter, fixing the Seal line to do something significant would be a good start.

[Kalel]

<P>Some good points here. A big issue for me is also the training choices. Terrible choices imo. Not one warlock in the game will take the Pillaging option so why do we have it? Its a horrible spell. We need to have Null Distortion or some other dmg spell there. How about Nil absolution to make up for Wizards getting their best lower recast single target nuke? I took Seal of Ebon Thought because I already had Dark Nebula Master 1. There really isnt another good option there.</P> <P>Now the Seal line is another story. Unless someone can show us verifiable proof of this spell actually do ANYTHING at all it must be changed to something useful. (ie.. Int/sta buff or something similar) There is absolutely no reason why we cant get a dev to answer how this spell actually works.</P>

[Nerga]

<DIV>OMG!! Kal such a noob....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean moonguard said it make the spell mroe effective....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hmm...dosent cost less power....dont get less resists...dont get less fizzles...dont roll on mob as higher lvl....ah....forget that comment..moonguard should be the one awarded noob dev of the year <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would LOVE to choose ebon again even if its 10% better without it.</DIV> <DIV>Now I got it only because I already had nebula and netharos master....and i aint taking pilaging for the whooping 10power or so more i will get each 2min lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my fellow wizy guild makes got a fast casting ice comet ,thier m2 choice is about 2.8k dmg with 3/9 cast timers.</DIV> <DIV>Simply amazing!</DIV>

[Collectall3]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Cast Times</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Our cast times are horrible I feel like I am playing in Slo-mo now before the combat updates the game flowed alot better I could adjust my casting to the situation from a all out barrage to a tiny trickle. Now I have no choice but to chain cast because all my spells take 4 sec to cast and I atleast want to hit the mob before it dies</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Lack of a secondary Damage type</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>Almost all of or spells are poison based we have a few Ice based spells  like Ice Flame,  the Flash Freeze spell line, and Words of force. However Ice Flame and words of force are adventure pack spells and not every one can or will get these so I hardly think that those should count as our secondary damage type Warlocks are suppose to be poison and disease based but where are our disease spells? With the changes to the raid mobs that are comming this is going to hurt us bad.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Seal Buff line</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Could some one please tell us what this buff is suppose to do? Moorguard sure couldn't in fact his reply probably raised even more questions. see this link for more info</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=71530#M71530" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=71530#M71530</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a 51 Warlock I cannot tell any diffrence between having this buff up or not having it up and it is Adept 3 Please make this spell line have a noticable effect or make it a Intel / Str buff again.  At least the Intel make our spells hit harder and the Str will allow us to carry a bit more which was nice but I would really rather see the Seal line of spells fixed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Netheros</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From the recent parses of Protoflame and Netheros I have done  Netheros Adept 3 and Protoflame Adept 1 did roughly the same damage as each other and Protoflame Adept 1 outdamaged Netheros Adept 3 when it died  causing fiery end to proc.  And sadly enough protoflame does not even require a Nil Crystals wizard equivelent</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Should Protoflame Adept 1 Out damage Netheros Adept 3?</FONT>  This was tested by me a 51 Warlock and my friend a 51 Wizzy on level 50 solo mobs both casting out pets on the same target at the same time and letting them fight it out till the mob or our pets died. If protoflame did not die Netheros would be even or slightly ahead in total damage. "Slightly ahead meaning with in 200 points of damage or less" and ofcourse since 200 damage can be accounted by the fact I hit my cast button 1 sec before him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is a link to a previous discussion on Netheros</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=12580#M12580" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=12580#M12580</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT size=4>Nil Crystals</FONT> </FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P>Getting Nil Crystals to cast our spells with alot of times just seems like work it is not fun at all. The spells that generate Nil Crystals need to be changed or at least the Curse of Emptiness needs changed to something that is useful that we can cast in XP groups that will provide enough benifit to the group or Warlock that will make it worth while to cast. As it is right now the Curse of Emptiness is probably the most worthless spell in our arsenal which is sad because it use to be a spell I would cast almost every single fight before the combat changes.</P> <P>The Curse of the Nil has its uses but it is not really worth casting on alot of mobs because the fights are over so fast. In a White/Yellow/Orange ^^^ encounter this spell comes in handy and probably save the healer a little extra mana because the mob doesn't hit the tank quite as hard.</P> <P>We have been discussing thisIn the Warlock forums a few people said they are alright with the Nil Crystals because they are required for our more powerful spells.... How is Netheros more powerfull the the Wizards Protoflame which does not require any componet? They do the same DPS the only diffrence between the 2 spells is that our Netheros has cooler graphics. None of our "Nil Crystal" spells are very powerful at all. Wicked Gift is nice in AoE encounters but I would hardly call it powerful at master 1 it does about 1000 to 2000 extra damage in 30 seconds and has a 2 min recast. And Dark Pillaging gives back 156 mana back to the group over 36 seconds at master 1 with a 2 min recast and cost the Warlock 216 mana to cast.  Of course a lot of fights don't even last 36 sec unless it is a raid mob .</P> <P>The Curse of Emptiness line needs changed back to a poison / disease debuff and / or make the Steel breath line also generate Nil Crystals. Also a spell that requires a componet in order to cast it should be more powerful then a spell that does not and this is not the case with Netheros and Protoflame and as for the Pillaging line not only does the warlock not break even on the power cost we have to have a nil crystal in order to cast it....</P></DIV> <DIV>Here is a link to a previous discussion on the Nil Crystals</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=12385#M12385" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=12385#M12385</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Contract line</FONT></DIV> <DIV>This spell is in line with all the other classes version but I think that all classes that have this type of spell need a little boost. Come on 200 mana regen for a T6 spell that is not even enough to cast 75% of our DD or AoE spells </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Cower line:</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Master 1 cower is 50% chance to slow by 35% + make afraid for 4 seconds. The wizard is 100% chance to slow by 49% (at ad3) for 10 seconds both have the same duration. Seems a little unbalanced to me maybe making Cower Adept 3 49% slow for 8 sec and a 50% chance to fear for 4 sec</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Curse of Emptiness line</FONT></DIV> <DIV>This spell is worthless in group situations unless the Warlock is pulling .... which we all know is not a great idea. Please change it back to a debuff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Utility</FONT></DIV> <DIV>If the pillaging line is our replacement for Evac then we got shafted hard by SOE. At least let the Warlock break even from the power cost at Adept 3 "Currently you still lose out even at master 1" since it takes 30 sec to get the full effect. This spell has little to no use in solo or group situations and is very marginal in raid situations. This spell needs about 150 - 250 added to the amount of power regen and maybe over maybe 20 sec and a 1 min 30 sec recast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Master 2 training</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The level 54 options are horrible my Netheros adept 3 is out damaged by protoflame adept 1 already and I highly doubt that the master 1 version would outdamage it also although over a the full cast time netheros does 1200-2400 damage which is a nice DoT but protoflame does the same ... more if protoflame is killed and procs fiery end and does not cost a Nil Crystal so this is no really a good option for a master 2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seal of Ebon thought at the moment no one can say that there is a for sure difference in having this spell up or not having it up ... not a very good choice. Please tell us what this spell is suppose to do and make it so we can see a diffrence by actually using it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shadowed pillaging - Yet again a horrible choice this spell line needs some loving before it is a viable option</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which leaves Dark Nebula as the only spell where you well see a for sure benifit</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do Wizzys get to have Ball of Inceneration as a choice and Warlocks get shafted here?</DIV></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Collectall3 on <span class=date_text>10-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:52 AM</span>

[Soefje]

<P>Comments from a warlock that is below 40:</P> <P>Casting times:  as everyone has said multiple times in multiple posts, this needs to be fixed.  They are simply too long.  The Absolution line, Distortion line and Flashfreeze line in particular.</P> <P>Roots:  Make paralyzing fear an AOE root similiar to bony grasp.  I don't feel like an AOE specailist right now.  For v and w groups I cast grievous blast, get a stun, then start absolution and hope it finishes before they interrupt me.  </P> <P>Curse lines:  Useless.  nuff said.</P> <P>AOE debuffs:  Steal breath is contagious, but it is too slow.  The mobs are usually dead before the debuff has affected every thing.  Suggestion:  Make one of the curse lines a debuff of poision/disease that is an group encounter debuff.</P> <P>Disease spells:  None.  Where are they?  I may be wrong, but I don't think I even have one at lvl 38.  This definitely needs to be fixed.  We need an AOE and DD disease spell line. </P> <P>Right now soloing is not very fun.  I end up running or dying as much as I kill.  I have died more times since the revamp than in the 36 lvls prior to the revamp.  Right now I have start crafting again, it is more fun.</P> <P>My 2 coppers worth.</P>

[TheSlashman]

<P>Totally agree with cast times.  Maybe have the AOE's the same time since the mobs stay up for a period of time, but please reduce the DD spells.  That would help a lot.  Sometimes I cant even get a spell off in a group with a nec/wizzy/assassin/ranger.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tanatus]

<P>I have mostly soloed my way to lvl 58 and have totaly disagree on each and everything OP said</P> <P><STRONG><U>Solo</U></STRONG></P> <DIV>Warlocks rocks like never before - you cannt grind at least 15%/hour you have not a slightest clue how to play your class. Its all about picking right targets and right attack sequence. </DIV> <DIV>Grade<STRONG> A</STRONG> for solo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Duo-Trio</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well havent done much trio but duo have pro and con - pro - you get safety net - better roots, healing external power regeneration. con - you get far less exp per kill.... Overall I found that the best duo partner for warlock is coercer - godly good root, nice backup vs. adds (AE mez + single target mez) + massive Int buff  + power regeneration buff + moderately good (usefull) AE + massive resistance debuff (broadband). Coercer can completely block spell casting mob from doing any harm (priceless). All in all if mob not considers as a epic - duo coercer+warlock will kill it</DIV> <DIV>Grade <STRONG>B+</STRONG> for duo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Group</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well here is a tricky situation - you need good tank (preferebly paladin or zerker) and specific targets - aka big groups of 3+ mob per encounter. Killing +++ in group is WASTE OF YOUR TIME - exp sucks and so is loot.  I repeat the ONLY type of encounter that can give warlock comparable exp to solo is cyclops. Thats it nothing esle. Second problem in group is power shortage. If you are in good group you wil be sitting at zero power most of the time (and yes I do all this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like t5 drinks/primatic/gebs/intution you name it). In other word to sustein damage warlock must have coercer attached to group or at least illusionist. Buttom line groups are bad for exping for warlock - only use of em if you need finish quest that probably it about groups</DIV> <DIV>Grade <STRONG>B-</STRONG> for group</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Problems</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><STRONG>Roots</STRONG></EM> - warlocks and wizards have WORST roots in game - take any other class and compare with sorcs and you will understand what I mean. I can take my lvl 50 coercer out and kill heroics +++ all day long with ZERO risk of braking root - only if I get slopy and foget refresh debuff and root got resist to many time in row. My main problem with roots is STABILITY. Ok I can agree that 1 class having unbrakeable AE root was kinda way out of balance I sorry I fail to see a difference between that situation and current situation then wardens, fury, coercers, illusionists - ALL those classes have unbrakeable roots. Bear in mind that discription on Skeletal grasp said - root have half chance of braking compare to normal root .... well total bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I'd gladly trade current version of roots for roots with shorter duration longer recast but unbrakeable</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Single target DD</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I Still dont get it why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] our so called "upgrade" Nul Distortion do LESS damage then prerewamp Nil Distortion. Look its not funny prerewamp NilD did 1476-2106 at Adept 3 .... nowdays Nul Distortion at Adept 3 do .... 1106-2056. Dont give me a bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about shorter recast timer because we lost BSS during rewamp which was solid 850-1100/9s. Once again Soul Blister still not cut it off. I did not see any reason for NERFING our Dark Pyre line of nukes (before rewamp it did 333-555 damage every 6s) now its dot lol Shadow Pyre do around 600-1000 damage ... over 12s (including cast time)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Canibalization </EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ouch here as well - before rewamp 500health=400power every 20s with Grisly Contract Adept 3 .... nowdays 400 health 233 power every 20s with Ghastly contract Adept 3 ... can we say sucks?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>What is good</U></STRONG>?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New spells - Dark Investation - first real dot that deadly as hell if you know how to trigger broodling. Its still somethat bugged - broodling not scale up - and stay at lvl 52 which make em litteraly useless vs. anything that lvl 59+. Nul Careless - FANTASTIC spell - saved my [Removed for Content] more time then I dare to count  - in a sence its PBAE knockback + 91% slow (read stun) for 10second.... And AE stun it what actually I always been missed on my warlock not anymore.... Netherous Realm - SOE made us AE class and this spell boost out AE ability to new lvl - simply like that</DIV> <DIV>Rewamped old spells - Tongue Twist line - let just say Vulian Intrusion its 7.7s stifle of mob that not epic, Devastation - 4s stun in the end is god send, altought <STRONG>damage</STRONG> of devastation been <STRONG>nerfed</STRONG> still before rewamp Adept 3 did solid 560-688 for a 5 tics total after rewamp it do 396-712 for same 5 tics which net a lot lower final damage but 4s stun in the end is danm good. Dark Nebula now actually AE stun. Damage isn't that great at all even at Master 1 (593-983) but stun is stun. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>What is different but can be consider is a ok trade off</STRONG> </U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well Nil Abs - its do a lot more damage then prerewamp but its on same time with rest of AE but this timer is shorter but it take more power to cast this spell then it was before but it still less then total cost of prerewamp.... So I'd say we even</DIV> <DIV>Aura of Emptiness - well we did lost 10.7s stun but we got damage booster for ~1000-1200 every fight but for a cost of power (and AoE not cheap to cast) - well all in all I consider it even</DIV> <DIV>Deter-Thwart - we got shorter casting (from 4s down to 2s) but we pay for that shrinked duration of stun (from 8s stun down to 3.5/4s stun) but now this stunds do mean damage ~980-1680 for Thwart Adept 3</DIV> <DIV>Torment of Shadow - Scruge of Night - its dot - was useless still useless - it use to be great pulling spell with long long range .... not anymore, but casting time went down to 1s from 4s which is good. Damage per tic been nerfed somethat (not by much but still Adept 3 scruge of night do about as much damage as did torment of shadow adept 1 prerewamp) but power cost been seriously reduced which raised DPM of spell very notably (from 4DPM upto almost 10DPM) - so all in all we even here</DIV> <DIV>Abysimal Fury-Boundless Fury - well it was useless it still more or less useless. It was crappy AE with huge casting time (5s) its now crappy PBAE Rain. It gain much faster casting time it do more damage (heck it do enouth damage to be consider as actual AE attack) but now its not limited by 1 encounter its true PBAE which make it very suicide spell for warlock it will [Removed for Content] off every single mob half zone around you. So use it with causion. Spell was bad and its still bad but now it have at least some use. I cound it even</DIV> <DIV>Chaotic Maelstorm - it was Dot with Nox debuff - now its AE selfreplicating nox debuff. We lost damage on it but we gain AE effect.... so we even</DIV>

[Splatterpunk28]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> V4nce wrote:<BR>I haven't seen the power issue as a problem, and would not put this as a high priority from my perspective.  A few regen items, good drink, and a Fury in your group is all you need I think.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Have you been on a raid since DoF?  Just one?  I'm curious.  I'm sorry, but on raids I have MAX power regen and I am still one of the first classes to go out of power.  If a mob lives more than 3min, we're done and are out dps'd by all but healers.  And it's not about playstyle, I have my spells sorted by dmg per power on long encounters, and I am still...oop very quickly.  </P> <P>I generally do not have a problem with it in groups.  I can do the epicx2 mobs in Clefts for hours, consistently doing 600-2500dps on every encounter and rarely will be out of power so much that folks have to wait on me.  But raids are a whole different story.</P> <P>This is way up there on my list, as I will be 60 soon, just like the rest of my guild -- this is what we will be doing until next expansion or until we quit.</P><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>10-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:01 PM</span>

[Atek]

My guild m8 has a level 28 Warlock, he was last on a day or so after the CU and died about 8 times during the short time he was on-line, he logged off and hasnt played it since. I thought I would level my Warock just to see what it was like, its level 22 and so I spent about 2 hours playing it tonight.  I died too many times, it wasnt my tactics as I could go back after dieing and kill the mob that had killed me.  The only difference being that I just got lucky and didnt have any resists 2nd time around.  I guess I could have just played it real safe and only gone for green cons but then thats boring and it takes far too long to get any decent xp to show for the effort.  I have to add that I was soloing, but then the class should be able to do that, I have a bruiser thats so much more fun to play. Negative Absolution and Putrid Cloud take too long to cast and I do seem to get a lot of resists to my Adept 3 Frozen Manacles. <div></div>

[V4n]

I have been on about 6 raids since DoF, so not a lot. We are obviously doing something different. I am not arguing with you, I am just reporting my experience.

[EQ-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Abysimal Fury-Boundless Fury - well it was useless it still more or less useless. It was crappy AE with huge casting time (5s) its now crappy PBAE Rain. It gain much faster casting time it do more damage (heck it do enouth damage to be consider as actual AE attack) but now its not limited by 1 encounter its true PBAE which make it very suicide spell for warlock it will [Removed for Content] off every single mob half zone around you. So use it with causion. Spell was bad and its still bad but now it have at least some use. I cound it even</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Gotta disagree with this point - i think this spell is great, especially if you are in a great group and can pull multiple encounters!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its the first AOE spell i cast and i cast it every time it refreshes (which at an 8sec refresh time is great) and it can dish out loads of damage because of this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah you do have to be VERY careful with this spell, but in most places the mobs arent that close together, especially if you solo lots like i do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So in summary: Was a spell i never used- now a spell i use ALL the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gratz to SOE for once.</DIV>

[Deathspell]

Abysmal Fury is a great spell, it's risky, but it's the only spell that can do damage on both encounters when you get adds. <div></div>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>I have mostly soloed my way to lvl 58 and have totaly disagree on each and everything OP said</P> <P><STRONG><U>Solo</U></STRONG></P> <DIV>Warlocks rocks like never before - you cannt grind at least 15%/hour you have not a slightest clue how to play your class. Its all about picking right targets and right attack sequence.</DIV> <DIV>Grade<STRONG> A</STRONG> for solo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>I dont know about 15% an hour but we are good soloers.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Duo-Trio</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well havent done much trio but duo have pro and con - pro - you get safety net - better roots, healing external power regeneration. con - you get far less exp per kill.... Overall I found that the best duo partner for warlock is coercer - godly good root, nice backup vs. adds (AE mez + single target mez) + massive Int buff  + power regeneration buff + moderately good (usefull) AE + massive resistance debuff (broadband). Coercer can completely block spell casting mob from doing any harm (priceless). All in all if mob not considers as a epic - duo coercer+warlock will kill it</DIV> <DIV>Grade <STRONG>B+</STRONG> for duo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Agree - Duo and Trio = Gud</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Group</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well here is a tricky situation - you need good tank (preferebly paladin or zerker) and specific targets - aka big groups of 3+ mob per encounter. Killing +++ in group is WASTE OF YOUR TIME - exp sucks and so is loot.  I repeat the ONLY type of encounter that can give warlock comparable exp to solo is cyclops. Thats it nothing esle. Second problem in group is power shortage. If you are in good group you wil be sitting at zero power most of the time (and yes I do all this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like t5 drinks/primatic/gebs/intution you name it). In other word to sustein damage warlock must have coercer attached to group or at least illusionist. Buttom line groups are bad for exping for warlock - only use of em if you need finish quest that probably it about groups</DIV> <DIV>Grade <STRONG>B-</STRONG> for group</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Dont agree - Groups are fine for warlocks as long as there is chain pulling you get nice XP. I sustain my mana just fine with no Enchanter in group. Trust me there are other places to XP then Cyclops. </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Problems</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><STRONG>Roots</STRONG></EM> - warlocks and wizards have WORST roots in game - take any other class and compare with sorcs and you will understand what I mean. I can take my lvl 50 coercer out and kill heroics +++ all day long with ZERO risk of braking root - only if I get slopy and foget refresh debuff and root got resist to many time in row. My main problem with roots is STABILITY. Ok I can agree that 1 class having unbrakeable AE root was kinda way out of balance I sorry I fail to see a difference between that situation and current situation then wardens, fury, coercers, illusionists - ALL those classes have unbrakeable roots. Bear in mind that discription on Skeletal grasp said - root have half chance of braking compare to normal root .... well total bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I'd gladly trade current version of roots for roots with shorter duration longer recast but unbrakeable</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Dont agree - Sorcs having an unbreakable root is dumb. We have good roots. Sorcerors and Wardens are the only classes that have 2 different timer roots. I like the roots. Bony/SkeletalGrasp shouldnt break as easy (per the description) but other then that Im happy with them (Nerf the root stacking kthx)</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Single target DD</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I Still dont get it why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] our so called "upgrade" Nul Distortion do LESS damage then prerewamp Nil Distortion. Look its not funny prerewamp NilD did 1476-2106 at Adept 3 .... nowdays Nul Distortion at Adept 3 do .... 1106-2056. Dont give me a bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about shorter recast timer because we lost BSS during rewamp which was solid 850-1100/9s. Once again Soul Blister still not cut it off. I did not see any reason for NERFING our Dark Pyre line of nukes (before rewamp it did 333-555 damage every 6s) now its dot lol Shadow Pyre do around 600-1000 damage ... over 12s (including cast time)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Agree - Single target dmg is a concern with the 3 sec cast times and lower dmg on Null Distortion. Lower cast and up the dmg slightly and I would be happy. Pyre line is fine. </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Canibalization </EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ouch here as well - before rewamp 500health=400power every 20s with Grisly Contract Adept 3 .... nowdays 400 health 233 power every 20s with Ghastly contract Adept 3 ... can we say sucks?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Agree - Contract lines were supposed to be fixed in beta. They even had a patch note saying that they were up'ed and it never got done after numerous posts about it. </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>What is good</U></STRONG>?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New spells - Dark Investation - first real dot that deadly as hell if you know how to trigger broodling. Its still somethat bugged - broodling not scale up - and stay at lvl 52 which make em litteraly useless vs. anything that lvl 59+. Nul Careless - FANTASTIC spell - saved my [Removed for Content] more time then I dare to count  - in a sence its PBAE knockback + 91% slow (read stun) for 10second.... And AE stun it what actually I always been missed on my warlock not anymore.... Netherous Realm - SOE made us AE class and this spell boost out AE ability to new lvl - simply like that</DIV> <DIV>Rewamped old spells - Tongue Twist line - let just say Vulian Intrusion its 7.7s stifle of mob that not epic, Devastation - 4s stun in the end is god send, altought <STRONG>damage</STRONG> of devastation been <STRONG>nerfed</STRONG> still before rewamp Adept 3 did solid 560-688 for a 5 tics total after rewamp it do 396-712 for same 5 tics which net a lot lower final damage but 4s stun in the end is danm good. Dark Nebula now actually AE stun. Damage isn't that great at all even at Master 1 (593-983) but stun is stun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Devastation always had a stun on it. The broodlings attached to Dark Infestation need to be fixed. The constant respawn on them when the DI dot is ticking is killing the dmg on it. Broodlings need to cast as soon as they pop not wait 5-10 secs. Its ridiculous.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>What is different but can be consider is a ok trade off</STRONG> </U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well Nil Abs - its do a lot more damage then prerewamp but its on same time with rest of AE but this timer is shorter but it take more power to cast this spell then it was before but it still less then total cost of prerewamp.... So I'd say we even</DIV> <DIV>Aura of Emptiness - well we did lost 10.7s stun but we got damage booster for ~1000-1200 every fight but for a cost of power (and AoE not cheap to cast) - well all in all I consider it even</DIV> <DIV>Deter-Thwart - we got shorter casting (from 4s down to 2s) but we pay for that shrinked duration of stun (from 8s stun down to 3.5/4s stun) but now this stunds do mean damage ~980-1680 for Thwart Adept 3</DIV> <DIV>Torment of Shadow - Scruge of Night - its dot - was useless still useless - it use to be great pulling spell with long long range .... not anymore, but casting time went down to 1s from 4s which is good. Damage per tic been nerfed somethat (not by much but still Adept 3 scruge of night do about as much damage as did torment of shadow adept 1 prerewamp) but power cost been seriously reduced which raised DPM of spell very notably (from 4DPM upto almost 10DPM) - so all in all we even here</DIV> <DIV>Abysimal Fury-Boundless Fury - well it was useless it still more or less useless. It was crappy AE with huge casting time (5s) its now crappy PBAE Rain. It gain much faster casting time it do more damage (heck it do enouth damage to be consider as actual AE attack) but now its not limited by 1 encounter its true PBAE which make it very suicide spell for warlock it will [Removed for Content] off every single mob half zone around you. So use it with causion. Spell was bad and its still bad but now it have at least some use. I cound it even</DIV> <DIV>Chaotic Maelstorm - it was Dot with Nox debuff - now its AE selfreplicating nox debuff. We lost damage on it but we gain AE effect.... so we even</DIV> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Scourge of Shadows is not useless. Unless of course you mean adding 150 Dmg per tick useless for the duration of a fight. The dmg should have been up'ed. Torment of Shadows ticked for 184 at Master 1 precombat changes.<BR></STRONG></FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think my biggest gripe is the gigantic range for all our dmg spells. I mean Devastation is absolutely stupid. It can tick from 390-800 or so.. Thats just straight up dumb. The range needs to be decreased. Pure and simple. Our DoTs should NOT have a range for the tick. Doesnt make sense at all. Nil absolution has a range of over 1000 dmg. A range on our dmg spells of over 100% of the dmg is <STRONG><EM><U><FONT color=#ff0000>INSANE!!!</FONT> </U></EM></STRONG>Look at the majority of our spell screenshots. Most of our dmg spells have at least a 100% difference from the min to max dmg. Scourge of Shadows 84-156 Dmg??? Thats a difference of 72 Dmg... 72!! That variance is WAY too high... Come on now.......Please look into this.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit - For haxorz language. </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:56 AM</span>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>This might be picky, but can you highlight "utility" in red?</P> <P>I usually don't think much about it, but we really have the least utility of any class in the game.  I mean we should at least have comparable utility to wizards -- we neither get evac, mezz nor intelligence buffs.  Heck, conjurors can buff mitigation, defense, call of the hero; necro's can rezz, heal, buff intelligence.  Summoners have better dpp, dps on single targets and slightly reduced burst AoE dmg in addition to pets that can offtank heroics?  They even generate less aggro.</P> <P>Our very situational and slight (near negligable) dps advantage on AoE's just doesn't compensate for everything else.  When it comes to grouping or raiding if it came down to a choice of warlock, wizard, necromancer or conjuror; honestly, warlock would be my last choice.</P><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>Well roots thats where we disagree most ...</P> <P>Look you are stating that precence unbrakeable roots in game very unbalancing - I am not agrue here... I am agrue with current situation.... At least 4 classes in game have unbrakeable root - its that new funny way of SOE promote duo? Let me emphasise it clear and loud - if you have coercer duoing - no matter what you do, no matter damage you apply - root wont brake ever. Same goes for warden, fury, illusionist and god know whos else roots. My point is - why take away unbrakeable root from 2 classes to give to 4?. Plus why the hell in Skel grasp discription still states that this root have half of normal chance to brake? this is total bull .... ALL our root should have in discription - this root have triple-quadropul chance to brake compare to ANY OTHER ROOTS in game</P> <P>Scrooge of Night why it useless? oki here we go....</P> <P>Group - TTL (titme to live) of mobs not exceed 10-15s - Nor Shadowed Pyre night Scrouge have chance to work on full. If DoT not work on full duration then it become HORRIBLE DPM. Not only this wasting nearly 4s for casting SP and SoN seriously cripple you DPS in group... You have 10-15s to upload what you got... Let see if its +++ mob - better land DI first follow by Devastation (thats already 2s + 0.5s + 4s +0.5s) and you probably will have just enouth time to hit target with Nul Dist +3s. If you use SoN and SP then you spend 1s +0.5s + 2s + 0.5s = 4s - you might have enouth time to upload Devastation but not for DI. DI recirle fast enouth to be used every fight and so is Thwart</P> <P>For solo again because of nature of our roots you definitly dont want to use 2 more dots </P>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>Well roots thats where we disagree most ...</P> <P>Look you are stating that precence unbrakeable roots in game very unbalancing - I am not agrue here... I am agrue with current situation.... At least 4 classes in game have unbrakeable root - its that new funny way of SOE promote duo? Let me emphasise it clear and loud - if you have coercer duoing - no matter what you do, no matter damage you apply - root wont brake ever. Same goes for warden, fury, illusionist and god know whos else roots. My point is - why take away unbrakeable root from 2 classes to give to 4?. Plus why the hell in Skel grasp discription still states that this root have half of normal chance to brake? this is total bull .... ALL our root should have in discription - this root have triple-quadropul chance to brake compare to ANY OTHER ROOTS in game</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>So, what your saying is those classes dont need an unbreakable root? They dont have the huge DPS like us. You want your cake and eat it too. Sorcerors cant have everything and an unbreakable root would throw things completely out of wack. I think its well balanced. BTW, I pretty sure that Furys dont get any type of root at all. Snares. Yes. Roots. No.</STRONG></FONT></P> <P>Scrooge of Night why it useless? oki here we go....</P> <P>Group - TTL (titme to live) of mobs not exceed 10-15s - Nor Shadowed Pyre night Scrouge have chance to work on full. If DoT not work on full duration then it become HORRIBLE DPM. Not only this wasting nearly 4s for casting SP and SoN seriously cripple you DPS in group... You have 10-15s to upload what you got... Let see if its +++ mob - better land DI first follow by Devastation (thats already 2s + 0.5s + 4s +0.5s) and you probably will have just enouth time to hit target with Nul Dist +3s. If you use SoN and SP then you spend 1s +0.5s + 2s + 0.5s = 4s - you might have enouth time to upload Devastation but not for DI. DI recirle fast enouth to be used every fight and so is Thwart</P> <P>For solo again because of nature of our roots you definitly dont want to use 2 more dots </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Your speaking of primarily grouping. I dont drop SoS on a non-tiered mob (Of course) because it will die too fast. On ^^ and ^^^ you are not killing to your potential if not using SoS. Im not primarily a grouper. I raid. Plus if you call parsing not under 600 DPS(often 800+ DPS on small groups) with using SoS crippled idk what to tell you. Dont undersell SoS. Bottom line </STRONG></FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Kalel]

<P>Another gripe of mine is the complete lack of any kind of de-agro spells. I mean scouts (even healers) have a few options to reduce hate. Commonly, big nukers always had a de-agro line of spells (Nullmail is a complete joke, I mean you have to be getting hit with melee to get agro off you. In this case on a raid mob you just wiped the whole raid. So this spell is completely uselss in raid situations). We, of all classes, should get a de-agro line. I mean why the hell does a bard need de-agro. What gives? Hell I wish my warlock was a ratonga so I could at least have that racial trait de-agro :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P>/sigh....</P> <P>It's oversights such as this that makes me wonder what devs are thinking when it comes to creating a balanced class for big nukers. If you need a someone to help you out with this sort of thing Im available for hire, kthx. </P>

[Tanatus]

<P>Kalabus give me a brake .... SoN of at Adept 3 scoring wooping 42DPS max with perfect timing assuming its always working on full duration .... yes it MAY do 150 a tic but see problem is tic is 6 second so do the math 150/6.... </P> <P>P.S. but may it its not 150 a tic and tic not 6s? May be its 70-150 a tic and tic 3s .....<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> its still sucky spell and still wont go above 40DPS which is next to nothing in warlock arsenal of spells</P>

[Kalel]

<DIV>Ok Tan, I offically will write off anything else you say. I have come to the conclusion that you dont actually play this game. It doesnt matter how much DPS it does. Its additional dmg that you arent getting because you arent casting it. While you are standing there not casting it im doing way more dmg then you on a raid. Thats all there is to it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets just say that it ticks 130 on average. If you arent casting this spell then you are losing 2600 dmg per minute on a raid target. Lets just say the raid target takes 5 mins to drop. You just lost 13,000 dmg because you are too good to cast this spell. That makes sense. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:08 PM</span>

[Nerga]

<DIV>I must say I agree with Kal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When DoF realesed I thought its usless too ,now I start with debuff and scourge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actualy I dont understand how you can skip it, atm we cant chain nukes because of timers.So unless you use Nebula and Absolution on single target you have alot of down time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personly alway keep all my DoT's ticking on a mob I have come to love it more then fat nukes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scourge at ad3 without debuffing and on less then 300int ticks for 150.</DIV> <DIV>I seen it tick for about twice on raids with mad raid debuff+max int. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It a one sec cast,thats the part which make it so good. Its like saying Aura of emptiness suck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW IIRC it ticks for 7 ,initial + duration . So 150X7 = 1050 ,soul blister at master! gives me 1176 (both max numbers ofc).</DIV> <DIV>Scourge have half the casting time + 20power less ,so why shouldnt I use it? </DIV> <DIV>Yes not the best spell against  in a common grind group that drops a group in 10sec ,but still a great one IMO</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[pharacyde]

People complain to complain. Because people like to complain. I mean, you can't have 50 spells like devastation, it would make devastation common and maybe even useless. There will be better and worse spells, there will be good and bad things. Without a bad spell there won't be a good spell and vice versa. Just accept the bad thnigs and enjoy the good things and stop complaining for a few picky details. sigh

[Tanatus]

<P>All right let me turn it other way ....</P> <P>You have TTL of mob and you have large array of spells to fit in this TTL (time to live) - unless you are fighting epic mob TTL is rather short (less then 15 second). If you use SoN you WILL miss bigger DPS spell. Even if you are pulling only +++ type of mobs its more logical DPS wise altenate Devastation+Nul Abs+Soul Blister + Twart (total time spend is 4s+0.5s+3s+0.5s+2s+0.5s+2s = 12.5s) with Dark Investation+Vulian Intrusion+Nul Abs+Soul Blister+Twart. What I am saying that SoN never work on full duration for me unless I am solo and then I solo last thing I need another dot braking my roots. With 294int selfbuffed I NEVER EVER seen 130 damage per tic average - its more like 105-112 or rather low 100s number</P> <P>The only case I might use this spell then I am totaly OOP and even then better idea canibalize once and hit target with something more destractive</P>

[Kalel]

Do whatever you want with your toon but spreading this nonsense to other warlocks is silly. SoS takes <STRONG><FONT size=5><FONT color=#ffff00>1 second</FONT> </FONT></STRONG>to cast. Your not losing anything while casting this. Use whatever logic you wish but if you arent casting this then you simply arent doing as much dmg as me.

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<p>All right let me turn it other way ....</p> <p>You have TTL of mob and you have large array of spells to fit in this TTL (time to live) - unless you are fighting epic mob TTL is rather short (less then 15 second). If you use SoN you WILL miss bigger DPS spell. Even if you are pulling only +++ type of mobs its more logical DPS wise altenate Devastation+Nul Abs+Soul Blister + Twart (total time spend is 4s+0.5s+3s+0.5s+2s+0.5s+2s = 12.5s) with Dark Investation+Vulian Intrusion+Nul Abs+Soul Blister+Twart. What I am saying that SoN never work on full duration for me unless I am solo and then I solo last thing I need another dot braking my roots. With 294int selfbuffed I NEVER EVER seen 130 damage per tic average - its more like 105-112 or rather low 100s number</p> <p>The only case I might use this spell then I am totaly OOP and even then better idea canibalize once and hit target with something more destractive</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not to mention every tick of ToS or SoS has a chance to proc dark broodlings.  A 1 second cast DOT is always worth casting.</span><div></div>

[Tanatus]

Look it doesnt matter how fast it cast it could be 1s it could be 0.5s like Vulian intusion.... This spell simply dont do any damage so please stop decieve warlock comunity about this spell - this spell do <U><STRONG>700-800</STRONG> </U>damage <STRONG><U>MAXIMUM</U></STRONG> and for that it need to stay on target <STRONG><U>NINETEEN</U></STRONG> second understood? 1s cast + 18 duraton. Make a math you need 19 second to do 700 damage .... <DIV>But all above not the point and  because fights lasts 10-15s per mob SoN do barely 400-500 damage. And instead of wasting you time and mana on casting this crappy spell you better hit target with IceFlame and do 800 damage</DIV>

[Nerga]

<DIV>OMG!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.Make it ad3 cheapazz ,150per tick is great. 150X7=1050 almost like my soul blister m1.</DIV> <DIV>2.It can be maintend over several targets at the same time.</DIV> <DIV>3.Low power cost.</DIV> <DIV>4.Short casting time.</DIV> <DIV>5.Fits perfectly in our chain since we lack spells to chain on as DD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aura of emptiness is about 1.5k dmg at ad3 ,scourge is 1050.Very close with same casting times and less power cost.</DIV> <DIV>Why not use it?</DIV>

[Kalel]

<DIV>We just need to collectively ignore this guy. He obviously has no idea how to play his class. I would love to be in a group and parse on this guy just to show him what a real warlock can do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its a D.O.T. Which stands for Damage over time. Of course its not gonna do all the dmg upfront. Your points make no sense at all. Furthermore I feel like a 2nd grader trying to read your posts with all the errors and broken english. Do us all a favor and stop spreading this nonsense to warlocks that may not know any better. Leave the real analysis to the people that know what they are talking about. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, Scourge of Shadows is a great opening DoT that you can maintain over the entire fight. Its low power cost and super low cast time. You would a fool to not cast it on any mob that is ^^ or above even con. Especially owns for raid targets. So despite the silly ramblings of this obviously delusional Warlock posting above, this should be ad3 asap. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

Kalabus on single target 600-800DPS on group 2.5K+ DPS good for you? <DIV>Give me a brake dude english is my 5th language learn russian to degree I know english then bark how broken my english is</DIV> <DIV>Dude as I told at adept 3 its not doing 150 damage per tic it could do up to 150 damage tic capish? - its do 84-152 or so at Adept 3 so please do yourself a favor and visit elementary school math class (84+152)/2 =<STRONG>118</STRONG> damage per tic average. At Adept 1 this spell did <STRONG>70-130</STRONG> damage aka <STRONG>100</STRONG> damage <STRONG>average. </STRONG>Comprehend? Or I need to explain to you what is average value, what is mean value and what is median value? Ever heared words statistic? no? to bad for you...</DIV> <DIV>So do this forum a favor and stop spreading bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about this spell</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tanatus on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:26 PM</span>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> Kalabus on single target 600-800DPS on group 2.5K+ DPS good for you? <DIV>Give me a brake dude english is my 5th language learn russian to degree I know english then bark how broken my english is</DIV> <DIV>Dude as I told at adept 3 its not doing 150 damage per tic it could do up to 150 damage tic capish? - its do 84-152 or so at Adept 3 so please do yourself a favor and visit elementary school math class (84+152)/2 =<STRONG>118</STRONG> damage per tic average. At Adept 1 this spell did <STRONG>70-130</STRONG> damage aka <STRONG>100</STRONG> damage <STRONG>average. </STRONG>Comprehend? Or I need to explain to you what is average value, what is mean value and what is median value? Ever heared words statistic? no? to bad for you...</DIV> <DIV>So do this forum a favor and stop spreading bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about this spell</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tanatus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-19-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>04:26 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Have a few classes debuff Poison then tell me the average is 130 (I was being conservative on my avg). Im not going to sit here and argue with you simple math. Its not worth my time to argue a point to someone who obviously doesnt get the idea of damage over time. Im not here to flame back and forth so I wont take the bait. You dont cast the spell and thats fine. Other warlocks will because its obviously a good spell for dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets just say that by your calculation on a mob it will average 118 dmg. Just to humor you here. If a raid fight lasts 5 mins your going to be doing at LEAST 11,800 damage less then me because Im using this spell. So because you think its useless your losing 12k dmg at the very least based on your AVG calculation not based on any debuffs at all.. [Removed for Content].. come on bro. Be reasonable here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will be my last response to you but anyway you slice it you lose dmg to any warlock using this because you arent using it. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 PM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>I knew you bad with math <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Oki here we go here is your choice you either do 11.8K with this spell or 23.6K with any other spell .... so you choice is 11.8k </P> <DIV>Dont make everyone laugh about debuff .... in group enviroment which we are talking about right? because I stated before several time that during raid enviroment you stick on long lasting mob what ever you want....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please please please enlight me what debuffs will double damage per tic??? 118 damage per tic - to push to 150 damage per tic as Nergal state at Adept 3 (and I say this is bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) - you need have 110-190 damage per tic instead of 84-152 which is +30%  - no matter how hard you debuff it aren't gona happend sorry bud only in your dream debuffing increase damage by 30%-50%. Hence we safely can assuming that spell do only 118 damage per tic average and 400-500 damage over duration of combat  vs, ANY heroic mob because its never work on full. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh btw SoS DO NOT proc broodling - no matter how hard you try - tested this today whole day - lol out of 200 casts not a single time. </DIV> <DIV>Also tested about 48 rooted mob with SoS on em - its ALWAY brake root (well technically 48 is not large number but since I got 100% root brake its statistically relavant)</DIV>

[Ci]

Could you move the discussion about SoS to another thread please? And find some more bugs for me to put in there instead <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[zit]

<P><SPAN>I have to correct Tanatus and want to clarify on the “unbreakable” root other classes get:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>There is no real unbreakable root in game atm like the root sorcerer had pre CU. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>However there are two differernt kinds of root. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The most common one has a chance to break on damage. These roots have a long duration (up to 1 min) and a relative fast recast (single target usually 6 sec). Their main purpose seems to be a crowd control utility: root the add, back up and don’t have to worry about it for the next 50-60 seconds.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The second kind of root has a periodical chance to break over time. They are not breakable by damage (in this sense they are unbreakable) but they have a resist check to break every few seconds (like every 3-4 seconds maybe). These roots have a much shorter duration and a longer recast.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>As far as I know, spell description on all healer roots (warden, fury, inquisitor…) says that they have a chance to break on damage. I don’t play a healer though, so maybe I have missed a special root they get or maybe the description is wrong.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>From my understanding the reason why warden for expample seem to get an unbreakable root could be that they get 2 roots on different timer which they usually stack, so if one breaks the other one can still work for back up. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>The one (and only?) class that gets a root with periodical chance to break are enchanter.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>For them this kind of root is necessary for effective soloing. They don’t have the fire power of sorcerer to burn a mob down fast. so they need to be able to keep the mob away for longer time. and they don’t have the healing ability of a priest to survive a fight toe to toe.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Some notes:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>1. warlocks don’t have problems soloing solo mobs. If they ask for an “unbreakable” or more relyable root the only reason would be so that they were able to solo heroic encounter with less risk. Which I doubt will be enough reason for SOE to fulfill this wish.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>2. when Tanatus is talking about “unbreakable” root he always is judging from his coercer point of view. This experience must not be transferred to other classes, not even to the other enchanter sub-class, as coercer get by far the better resist debuffs. In combination with a root that has resist checks to break, this actually may work out nearly unbreakable for coercer. also keep in mind that his coercer is decked out with exceptional gear and most spells at master as far as i know. so what may seem easy to his coercer is not necessarily the norm and shouldnt lead to general conclusions about other classes abilities.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>3. a dps mage in duo with an enchanter will be a very powerful combo. The sorcerer provides the damage which the enchanter is lacking, while the enchanter provides the safety. The best choice in combo with a warlock (as well as in combo with a wizard) will always be the coercer over the illusionist though. Because not only make their debuff the root hold better it also debuffs all other resists, including poison.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by zitha on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:27 AM</span>

[Deathspell]

I guess the "breakability" of a root can't depend on the fact whether the mob(s) is(are) heroic or not, or make it scale with the difficulty of the mob? It would be nice if it didn't break on groups of normal/lower level mobs, while it still can break/fail on heroic mobs. That way we can solo our groups without loosing chunks of health while standing helplessly stunned and they can also determine the chances of us soloing heroics. <div></div>

[Nerga]

<P>1.I compared MAX stats of both SoS and Soul Blister.While Blister have advantage cause its Master1 while SoS is Ad3.</P> <P>Even so SoS is laging behind VERY litle DMG wise.While being more effective in cost and casting times.</P> <P>2.Im in a raiding guild so actualy I never see it tick for 150,I see it tick for 200-250.Raid debuffs with the current system are plain wicked.</P> <P>3.Unless you use your AOE which cost a tons of power and casting times on single target you will stand there waiting on a recat timer to pop.Which is exacly where SoS comes into play.</P> <P> </P> <P>BTW are you a member of Dread ARMy tran?</P> <p>Message Edited by Nergall on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:37 AM</span>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nergall wrote:<BR> <P>1.I compared MAX stats of both SoS and Soul Blister.While Blister have advantage cause its Master1 while SoS is Ad3.</P> <P>Even so SoS is laging behind VERY litle DMG wise.While being more effective in cost and casting times.</P> <P>2.Im in a raiding guild so actualy I never see it tick for 150,I see it tick for 200-250.Raid debuffs with the current system are plain wicked.</P> <P>3.Unless you use your AOE which cost a tons of power and casting times on single target you will stand there waiting on a recat timer to pop.Which is exacly where SoS comes into play.</P> <P> </P> <P>BTW are you a member of Dread ARMy tran?</P> <P>Message Edited by Nergall on <SPAN class=date_text>10-20-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>04:37 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Someone give this man a hand. He knows what hes talking about. You see Nergall is casting Soul Blister and SoS to cause dmg to a mob. You know what though? He still is casting other dmg spells as well. What a concept. Use your whole arsenal to your advantage. Im not sure what guild Tan is in but they should parse his dmg then see as he gets owned by every other dmg class in the raid. </P> <P>You said Tan, that I would be trading 11K dmg for 23k or something silly like that. Actually Im doing both values of dmg because Im casting both line of spells. It takes 1 sec to cast. This isnt keeping me from casting anything. </P> <P>Go raid something then talk. kthx.</P> <p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 AM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>Kalabus - how many time I need to repeat this</P> <P>I am talking about <STRONG><U>GROUP</U></STRONG> AND<U><STRONG> SOLO</STRONG> </U>- SOS - SUCKS. I gave reason why, you keep feeding everyone with bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that <STRONG>IF</STRONG> you have 24 ppl and<STRONG> IF</STRONG> you have <STRONG>BEST POSSIBLE</STRONG> IN GAME complex <STRONG>debuff </STRONG>and <STRONG>IF</STRONG> MOB live longer then 1 min  and <STRONG>IF</STRONG> you have problem with power<STRONG> THEN</STRONG> SOS is usefull. For crist sake quote me where I said SoS useless on <STRONG>RAID. </STRONG>If you gona tell me that during grouping TTL for any mob over 15s then I tell you your group DPS is sucks. </P> <DIV>Nergal - believe you or not but if I have epic encounter I will not spend my time landing stupid SOS on every single mob within encounter then I can go with Netherous Realm, Corrupted GIft, Anarchic Maelstorm - as a raider you know what happend after this right? Toss here troubadour proc and berserker tank and you wont even need devastation or any other AE to sustein ungodly DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to the roots</DIV> <DIV>Here is a deal - stackability of roots have NOTHING to do with stability. Coercer root have 2 mode  - a) it resisted and hence bonced out of mob b) it sticked on mob - then it ALWAYS stay on full duration NO MATTER WHAT. You dont  need any debuffs (coercer can debuff around -1400 to arcane and -800 to rest at Master 1). The only things that debuffs do for coercers root they assure that root will stick from first cast. Indeed duration of Fatal Hesitation is shorter then Cower or Bony but recast is the same 6s and! power cost is lower then cower so you can cast root all day long w/o losing single point of power. My whole point about roots was a question what the difference between duo coercer-warlock (yes I repeat myself in 100 time coercers root isnbrakeable). Toss here actually fact that coercer have nuke-root... after nuke root last for good 12-18s. I mean common - everything that warlock could do solo before LU13 warlock can duo after, heck even more then that</DIV>

[Kalel]

<P>/sigh.....</P> <P>You said the spell is useless. I gave reasons why it isnt. They all pertained to raids or ^^/^^^ group mobs. Your still arguing. Im done. Other people have expressed their opinions on this spell as well. Noone mirrors your thoughts on SoS so lets just drop it and come back to something thats constructive like a different resist line of spells or the Broodlings being bugged. None of this back and forth is going to help us get issues resolved. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Nerga]

<P>Yes I know what happens then...I will die.</P> <P>I hardly use that combo, WAYYY to risky.</P> <P>Nethros realms is the same,mad DPS spikes used only on special occasions.</P> <P> </P> <P>If like us you would use your dots you will udnerstand Netharos is MADDD hate ,ticks+triggers=splat.</P> <P>But you dont use dots...so....sigh.</P> <P> </P> <P>Kal aint talkign about no perfect group...SoS is pure good that it. </P> <P>I didnt want to mention it but please run a search on his guild,they got alot of world firsts ot thier name....I wouldnt be dismissing him so quickly.</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>Nergal we running circle - I do use dots but not SoS - I use Devastation and DI + NR but again because I prefer solo or raid and dont lik grouping in general I dont use SoS for solo/group.</P> <P>In most case screnario in groups (on rare occasion then I need group like for finishing Rahotep (sp) mace heritage)  I can afford take some beating and so to speak NR+CG+Dev+AM+DN+NA pretty much garanty 2 things - everything within encounter that have same lvl as I and have 1 arrow and below will die. 2 arrow up may survive if no bard procs but once I again they usuall will die to VI+ND cupe de grace combo</P> <P>I agree tough that its really depend how good your tank is - if tank can buy you enouth time to let Dev tic at least twice - you won. If Dev pull agro from first tic yes you pretty much screwed</P> <DIV>P.S. thanks for tip btw lol gona test something -not that I dont believe it but you already once been wrong - SoS never proc brodling on DI - I did test 200 cast DI on rooted mob then SoS (usually add aslo SP for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and gigle) - not a single time it forced broodling proc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.</DIV> <DIV>I went and tested Nergal statement Netherous Realm + Scrouge of Shadow = each tic Boom!  - mildly say its very very far from truth.... Dots CANNT trigger Netherous Realm proc - none of em, debuffs, damage sheilds also cannt - only direct damage spells can. I have posted result how NR work in other topic</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tanatus on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:56 PM</span>

[Max122]

Just followed your post tanatus and yes any DDs proc NR and that includes the broodlings cause their nukes are DD.  I also believe netheros pet may also proc it as he nukes but I dont use him all that often.

[Tanatus]

<P>Max you can believe what ever you want</P> <P>I have tested Netherous and DI broodling - neither of em cause NR goes off... at least within 10 cast I have used for my study</P>

[Kalel]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <P>Nergal we running circle - I do use dots but not SoS - I use Devastation and DI + NR but again because I prefer solo or raid and dont lik grouping in general I dont use SoS for solo/group.</P> <P>In most case screnario in groups (on rare occasion then I need group like for finishing Rahotep (sp) mace heritage)  I can afford take some beating and so to speak NR+CG+Dev+AM+DN+NA pretty much garanty 2 things - everything within encounter that have same lvl as I and have 1 arrow and below will die. 2 arrow up may survive if no bard procs but once I again they usuall will die to VI+ND cupe de grace combo</P> <P>I agree tough that its really depend how good your tank is - if tank can buy you enouth time to let Dev tic at least twice - you won. If Dev pull agro from first tic yes you pretty much screwed</P> <DIV>P.S. thanks for tip btw lol gona test something -not that I dont believe it but you already once been wrong - SoS never proc brodling on DI - I did test 200 cast DI on rooted mob then SoS (usually add aslo SP for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and gigle) - not a single time it forced broodling proc</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S.</DIV> <DIV>I went and tested Nergal statement Netherous Realm + Scrouge of Shadow = each tic Boom!  - mildly say its very very far from truth.... Dots CANNT trigger Netherous Realm proc - none of em, debuffs, damage sheilds also cannt - only direct damage spells can. I have posted result how NR work in other topic</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tanatus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:56 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The lengths you will take in order to try and make yourself right is truely disturbing. Unfortunately you made yourself look pretty foolish on that thread you made about Netherous Realm :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When will the lunacy end?<BR></DIV>

[pharacyde]

Actualy you can chain nuke as a warlock if you only use DD spells. Soul blister - null distortion - soul blister - ice flame - soul blister - thwart - soul blister - null distortion - soul blister .... There might be very minor gaps of 0.5sec in it. But nothing huge. The point if  a spell is worht casting or not is not dependent of the dps it does. But how long it takes you to cast it. 1 sec cast of SoS == 150 X 7 damage (at best) == 1050 damage. So if you chain cast you have 1k dps from this spell. compared to our DD's 3 sec cast for ND == 2k damage. So if you chain cast you have 600-700dps from this spell. My point is simple. If you want to do the most damage, you have to take the spells that give the most damage for their casting time. And your dps will be the highest then, if you keep chain casting.. Just divide the total damage of the spell by the time to cast it. Those are the best damage spells you have. Not the most mana efficient, but the best dps spells. So casting SoS is defenately going to help you do more damage when you chain cast. And it will help you MORE then using Null Distortion. My 2cent <div></div>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pharacyde wrote:<BR>Actualy you can chain nuke as a warlock if you only use DD spells.<BR><BR>Soul blister - null distortion - soul blister - ice flame - soul blister - thwart - soul blister - null distortion - soul blister ....<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What are you gonna do after that last soul blister? Ice flame will still be down and so will Thwart. You cant chain cast DD's. We simply dont have enough of them. Not like dropping out DoT's are bad. Add a few Shadowed Pyre's in there along with some Aura of Emptiness action and you will be fine. </DIV>

[Nerga]

<P>Kal is right...ice and thwart are 30recast..what then?</P> <P>Debuff>SoS>aura>DI>pyre>blister>null>blister>thwart or something like this is better IMO.</P> <P>Throwing devastation in there is great.Just keep all DoTs on and nuke whatever DD is up.</P> <P>Seem to be the best way IMO.</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>Danm ppl you running in the circles ...</P> <P>If you killing anything above +++ X2 then YES dots are make sence to cast, yes they work on full, yes they add some damage. No they wont do any procs on Aura of Emptiness or Netherous realm but still will do damage....</P> <P>If you killing anything +++ X1 or below there is no reason what so ever to use dots. TTL of normal +++ in normal group 15second or less .... Lol imf then duo-trio some named +++ with 1 or 2 berserkers I dont even have time to for second cast of Soul Blister - thats how fasts mobs go down....  Once zerk start cast rage, I go with NR/CG and start cast Devastation usually in time I get it off zerk already engaged. DI, VI (to trigger broodling), Nul Dist, Thwart, Blister (not always) - thats what I have time to land (if I am sloopy I usually miss blister because mob dead)</P> <DIV>Basically raid buffed I can deciminated ANY group of 1 arrow up equal or below of my lvl within single round of attack, 2 arrow up mobs have may be 10-20% health left</DIV>

[Nerga]

<DIV>Im out...Kal "enjoy" preaching to the deaf <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Asgardsfall]

<div></div>I hate to cut in on an interesting extended 3 way argument, but somone a waaay back on page one asked what good the Seal Line was and I didnt spot any answer. I'm a level 45 Warlock who likes to group with his friends who are level 54 and level 53.  As they dont like to hunt greens I have to scale up. The seal line does this admirably.  I took the master option (before it was dropped a bit in a recent patch) and my distortion skill went up by 25 points or so, suddenly I was the casting level of a level 50 warlock. With this buff up I can lay nukes with regularity on orange and red mobs with few resists.  The three of us took a tower in Maj Dul when I was only level 44 (Hitting 54 guards, +10 levels, is still resist city but it could still be done). Naturally when attacking mobs around your own level they wont resist that much anyway so its understandable that there is little difference with the buff up or down. I miss the INT buff, and still use the old Sorc one from time to time, but if the situation is right the Seals line works a treat. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Asgardsfall on <span class=date_text>10-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:38 AM</span>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asgardsfall wrote:<BR> I hate to cut in on an interesting extended 3 way argument, but somone a waaay back on page one asked what good the Seal Line was and I didnt spot any answer.<BR><BR>I'm a level 45 Warlock who likes to group with his friends who are level 54 and level 53.  As they dont like to hunt greens I have to scale up.<BR>The seal line does this admirably.  I took the master option (before it was dropped a bit in a recent patch) and my distortion skill went up by 25 points or so, suddenly I was the casting level of a level 50 warlock.<BR><BR>With this buff up I can lay nukes with regularity on orange and red mobs with few resists.  The three of us took a tower in Maj Dul when I was only level 44 (Hitting 54 guards, +10 levels, is still resist city but it could still be done).<BR><BR>Naturally when attacking mobs around your own level they wont resist that much anyway so its understandable that there is little difference with the buff up or down.<BR><BR>I miss the INT buff, and still use the old Sorc one from time to time, but if the situation is right the Seals line works a treat.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Asgardsfall on <SPAN class=date_text>10-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:38 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Your missing the point bro. Your not gaining the casting lvls to a 50 warlock or whatever. (As stated by a Dev himself). Thats not how this buff is supposed to operate. Unfortunately not even Devs can explain how it works or they would have came in and said something by now. I have e-mailed the links to that question to a dev and he hasnt responded. This lends to the fact that they dont know exactly what it does. The seal buff has NO noticeable effect. I never use this line and I never have resist problems except on red targets. I grinded on lvl 59-60 Raptors in PoF when I was 51 and was parsing over 2k some fights. So its no the seal buff doing anything for resists because I didnt even use the buff.

[Asgardsfall]

Interesting,  all I can say is that I notice alot more resists when its not up. My understanding is that your skill level vs the mobs level affects how it resists With Master II seal I can hit Reds, without it I cant. Perhaps the difference with App I or IV or even the adepts is not enough to notice.  (Im assuming you didnt take the training option) I see the skill increases my skill level in the skill box I notice less resists on orange and red level mobs. This is enough to keep me happy I agree I dont notice any difference at all when fighting white con mobs or lower Even with yellows it doesnt matter much. <div></div>

[Ci]

 <span><blockquote><hr>Asgardsfall wrote:I notice less resists on orange and red level mobs. This is enough to keep me happy I agree I dont notice any difference at all when fighting white con mobs or lower Even with yellows it doesnt matter much. <div></div><hr></blockquote>What level of spells are you using? App4/Adept1/Adept3?</span><div></div>

[Asgardsfall]

I generally use Adept 1s, and App 1s.  plus the training options. Ive not read anywhere that Spell Quality affects resists. Logically this should be governed by Skill Level which is in turn enhanced by the Seal Line <p></p>

[Ci]

Beta Combat Changes 09/02/05<font color="#ffcc00"><b>*** Combat Changes ***</b></font>   <b>Resists, Fizzles, and Interrupts:</b> - All hostile (non-melee) spells now have a chance of being resisted outright. - Damage spells have a lower chance of being resisted than other types of spells. - If a spell is resisted by all targets, the caster pays the full power cost. However, the reuse time will be reduced to  half that of normal or 3 seconds, whichever is greater.<font color="#66ff00"> - The chance to resist is based on the target's resistance to the spell's damage type, the skill level of the player's casting technique used by the spell (Ministration, Ordination, etc.), and spell quality (Apprentice II, Adept I, etc.).</font> - Non-damage spell effects (snares, slows, debuffs, etc.) can no longer be mitigated. Except for damage spells and arts, if a spell lands it should have the full effect listed in the spell's examine information. - Only beneficial spells cast in combat now have a chance to fizzle. - Your chance to fizzle is affected by the skill level of the player's casting technique used by the spell (Ministration, Ordination, etc.) and spell quality (Apprentice II, Adept I, etc.). - The base chance to be interrupted while casting has been reduced.<p></p>

[kr8ztwin]

I just wanted to comment on the DUO tank+warlock statement the OP made.  I currently run a duo with an SK and we own.  At every tier we harvest and save for him to have full rare gear and adept3 taunts and lifetaps.  Not only does he hold aggro but in defensive stance w/ shield he does an awesome job staying alive.  We can cut through white^^^ and the XP is great.  I also love the debuff poison/disease stacking.  I hit hard with this combo and we stick primarily to taking on groups 4-5 mobs.  <P></P>