We Need Disease Spells or we have no place on the current raid format.

[Senen74]

<DIV>Thats right, tonight I went with my guild to 2 seperate x4 epic zones atleast half of the trash mobs were completely immune to poison so we get to sit there and cast thwart.  Every boss I think a total of 5 that we fought all were 100% immune to poison some were also immune to ice, but I also recall of those mobs they were only partialy immune to fire/disease which means wizards and any other class that may have alternate forms of dps can still be effective.  We simply can not go on being a viable raid class with this none sense design.  I don't mind bosses being 75% resistant but fully resistant to your only dmg type on 99% of boss encounters is just a stupid design and I sit here asking myself why I pay to play this when I can't have fun on raids ? </DIV>

[D-lirium]

<DIV>Would you mind posting which encounters they were?</DIV>

[Nerga]

<P>Dont even go as far as epics.Named heroics mobs are immune...err...nope...i can land toment of shadows and here and there some other spell on them...so they are...VERY resistent...hmm...i thought no more specific dmg resistent mobs....sigh.</P> <P> </P> <P>Yeah we need some other type of dmg type,word of force becomes kind of old by now...<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Kalel]

Yes, please tell us the names of the mobs and their loc's/zones. If they need to be addressed we need to get that info out there.

[TheSlashman]

<DIV>We fought meathooks the other day and only landed 2,400 in damage.  Resist city on my spells.  Im level 52 and meathooks is 53 epic.  What happen to the resist on mobs?  I can see some resist, but more then 90% resist rate.  However, melee hit for 25k being at level 52.. go figure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nerga]

<DIV>Off the top of my head Siphon and The conqurer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Silent city and Sinking sands.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Servent of mudeef seem to be the same but for all classes lol ,he got some MEAN resists on him <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kalel]

<DIV>Ok so we have</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Siphon - Named spider - Sinking Sands</DIV> <DIV>Meathooks - group x 3 raid mob in Sinking Sands</DIV> <DIV>The Conqueror - Silent City - Is he a solo mob?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Servant of Mudeef is not resistant to poison.</DIV>

[Senen74]

<DIV>Well my memory sucks so I'm going to have to be a bit vague on the mob names.  The zones however are Akhet the 4xepic zone at the entrance to Living Tombs.  The lay out of the zone is exaclty like LT, the first area you drop down theres a triggered trap completely immune to poison,  it seems all the static mobs called miners or something like that were able to be hit with poison nukes.   Any triggered Trap type mobs which was basicly every other encounter are 100% poison immune.  The bosses we fought 3 of in this zone in the common area before you go down the left hall way to the 2nd court area were all 100% poison immune aswell as Ice Immune but fire could land as I mentioned before as well as some limited disease spells as confirmed by the shamans and other classes with disease type debuffs and spells.   The other 4xepic zone is the one outside of Shimering Citadel of the mobs in there everything I encounterd was 100% poison immune including the first boss we encounterd this is as far as Ive been in the new zones not sure if these are on the list to be retuned but the mobs are complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] beat like nothing Ive seen before.  The only spell I could rely on to dmg the poison immune mobs was Thwart, I also had my spell book open casting and this is no lie the lvl 10-15 fire/ice nukes we got from the sorcery base class just to do dmg.  If this is a sign of things to come for all raid type zones I think SoE is going in the wrong direction this does nothing but frustrate the players of our class in particular being we have no alternate means of dps as our description said we are poison/disease, my question to the devs where the heck is the disease it would be far to easy to simply retag part of our spell line up as disease based, so that we would be more in line with the Wizard spell layout aswell as many other classes which can switch weapons to keep doing dmg vs crush/slash/piercing immune mobs which there are many of aswell.   Hope this helps you guys next time we go due to lockout etc.  I'll be more mindfull of jotting down mob names to help with the specifics.</DIV>

[Tevilspek]

I got a call a week ago from two friends to come help kill Cythan for the FBSS.<BR><BR>Was a Paly, Fury and myself, all 48-51 so it wasn't such a big deal.<BR>But sure enough, once we start fighting, Immune, Immune, Immune.<BR><BR>I actually had to switch to my level 20 mentor hotbar, to use all the low, low level ice and heat spells from being a Sorcerer. At level 51..<BR>And, we needed to kill him twice. So needless to say, we were fighting for a long time..<BR><BR>So yeah, Cythan, last I checked, IMMUNE. 

[Nerga]

<DIV>Say kabulos you one grouped servent of mudeef?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We tried him once but group setup wasnt the best. Resist on him were WICKED beside the coer that landed quite often all of us got TONS of resists.</DIV>

[Kalel]

Yea. We killed her several times with 5 peeps. Most 60 but she was 67^^^ once. NEver had a problem killing her.

[OneBadAli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Senen74 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thats right, tonight I went with my guild to 2 seperate x4 epic zones atleast half of the trash mobs were completely immune to poison so we get to sit there and cast thwart.  Every boss I think a total of 5 that we fought all were 100% immune to poison some were also immune to ice, but I also recall of those mobs they were only partialy immune to fire/disease which means wizards and any other class that may have alternate forms of dps can still be effective.  We simply can not go on being a viable raid class with this none sense design.  I don't mind bosses being 75% resistant but fully resistant to your only dmg type on 99% of boss encounters is just a stupid design and I sit here asking myself why I pay to play this when I can't have fun on raids ? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Deal with it. You know how long wizards had to deal with 9 out of every 10 epic mobs being completely immune to cold and highly resistant to heat???</P> <P>No, you always had it good and never really had to worry about immunes, welcome to reality. Now stop whining and deal with it.</P> <DIV>Warlocks are still top dps in every raid i have been in as of late (well ok rangers and necro's are also right alongside u), so u actually have some mobs that are immune to poison? Heaven forbid such a thing could happen to a warlock. </DIV>

[Kalel]

Calm down little buddy. He was making an observation about raid mobs. Sony was supposed to be working on resistable mobs by having them resistant to one dmg type but not the other. WIth that said Warlocks dont have another type of dmg other then Poison. He has a legitimate gripe. Troll elsewhere please. Thanks.<p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

[Senen74]

<DIV>As Kalel pointed out we don't have the option of 2 dmg types such as Wizards if you want to go farther almost every melee class has a minimum of 3 choices of dmg types in some cases 5 or 6.  I feel no need for any class to go through what Wizards went thru prior to the update so your attitude is completely unwarranted here.   What SoE has done is the bait and switch they said they were going one way with spell resist and for Warlocks that just hasn't happend we don't have the luxury of multiple dmg choices ie' fire/ice, slash,pierce,crush, mental,disease,divine I can go on listing all the choices that other classes have more then 2 of.  So I think my point is pretty clear for our class SoE needs to get the system working as they said it would, give us the disease nukes that we are supposed to have and problem solved.  As far as what raid content you have seen Warlocks as top dps I would like to see that from what zone and what mobs so far Ive seen most of the current raid content in the new expansion and Ive yet to see what you claim. </DIV>

[Magus_Bl]

<DIV>Hehehe about time there are finally some poison resist mobs.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizzy's have tried to get them to fix Meeting of the Minds forever... mobs resist both heat and cold.  And our debuff is guess what?  Cold based.  So if there's a cold resist mob, our chances of debuffing him are basically zip.</DIV>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus_Blue wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hehehe about time there are finally some poison resist mobs.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizzy's have tried to get them to fix Meeting of the Minds forever... mobs resist both heat and cold.  And our debuff is guess what?  Cold based.  So if there's a cold resist mob, our chances of debuffing him are basically zip.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Guess what Meetings of the Minds is also highly resistant to? You guessed it. Poison. Devastation is lucky to tick for 300 on those mobs. All our spell dmg is cut in half on No-vowel and Overlord. <BR></P> <DIV>There are several poison immune mobs in the old world.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spirits of the Lost (Pretty much every mob in the instance)</DIV> <DIV>Venekor</DIV> <DIV>Asphyxia</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To name a few.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:09 AM</span>

[Ga]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus_Blue wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hehehe about time there are finally some poison resist mobs.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizzy's have tried to get them to fix Meeting of the Minds forever... mobs resist both heat and cold.  And our debuff is guess what?  Cold based.  So if there's a cold resist mob, our chances of debuffing him are basically zip.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is just schadenfreude on your part and is a poor reflection on the Wizard Community. Your position that since you have suffered we should suffer too is for lack of a better word, pretty repugnant.</P> <P>Hopefully your joy will be short lived, and we shall get some of our spells converted to Disease damage.</P>

[Geoff]

<DIV>resist is one thing.   Lower damage, fine.  But I was constantly hitting in the x4 Living tombs raid, and my combat log basically said "You hit !, but it has no effect".   Is that really what wizzies went thru?  I've seen wizzy's back in MotM, yes their dmg sucked, but they would atleats do a couple points.   And by the way, Warlocks had more raid mob resist problems than wizzies in the old world, don't know how that misconception was started.  SotL was NOT warlock friendly, and since that raid takes about as long as all ther other raids put together...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to DoF raid mobs.  We really need another line of dmg.  Disease should be it, considering  the manuals exact description is "warlocks manipulate poison and disease to attach their foes".   I may be wrong...but do we have a single disease spell? (offensive dmg type)</DIV>

[maddawg138]

it'd be nice maybe shadowed pyre and scourge of shadows or abysmal fury would be disease based that way we can do a little bit of DPS on poison immune mobs. For now i can use Thwart(flashfreeze upgrade that does cold damage) blaze, and ice spike.

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Geoff77 wrote:<BR> <DIV>resist is one thing.   Lower damage, fine.  But I was constantly hitting in the x4 Living tombs raid, and my combat log basically said "You hit !, but it has no effect".   Is that really what wizzies went thru?  I've seen wizzy's back in MotM, yes their dmg sucked, but they would atleats do a couple points. <FONT color=#ff0000> </FONT><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000> And by the way, Warlocks had more raid mob resist problems than wizzies in the old world, don't know how that misconception was started</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>.</FONT></STRONG>  SotL was NOT warlock friendly, and since that raid takes about as long as all ther other raids put together...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Warlocks had it way better then Wizards pre-DoF. There were times where a wizard was with us all night (4-5 Raid targets) and never be able to cast a single big dmg nuke. 90% of the raid mobs were either completely immune to ice/fire or Highly resistant. Sure SotL was terrible for warlocks but that wasnt near the pain Wizards endured in the old world. </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to DoF raid mobs.  We really need another line of dmg.  Disease should be it, considering  the manuals exact description is "warlocks manipulate poison and disease to attach their foes".  <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG> <FONT color=#ff0000>I may be wrong...but do we have a single disease spell? (offensive dmg type)</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>No. </FONT></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Please see this thread for good suggestions that are being looked at by Devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=13375" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=13375</A></DIV>

[Geoff]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kalel22 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Geoff77 wrote:<BR> <DIV>resist is one thing.   Lower damage, fine.  But I was constantly hitting in the x4 Living tombs raid, and my combat log basically said "You hit !, but it has no effect".   Is that really what wizzies went thru?  I've seen wizzy's back in MotM, yes their dmg sucked, but they would atleats do a couple points. <FONT color=#ff0000> </FONT><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000> And by the way, Warlocks had more raid mob resist problems than wizzies in the old world, don't know how that misconception was started</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>.</FONT></STRONG>  SotL was NOT warlock friendly, and since that raid takes about as long as all ther other raids put together...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Warlocks had it way better then Wizards pre-DoF. There were times where a wizard was with us all night (4-5 Raid targets) and never be able to cast a single big dmg nuke. 90% of the raid mobs were either completely immune to ice/fire or Highly resistant. Sure SotL was terrible for warlocks but that wasnt near the pain Wizards endured in the old world. </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to DoF raid mobs.  We really need another line of dmg.  Disease should be it, considering  the manuals exact description is "warlocks manipulate poison and disease to attach their foes".  <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG> <FONT color=#ff0000>I may be wrong...but do we have a single disease spell? (offensive dmg type)</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>No. </FONT></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Please see this thread for good suggestions that are being looked at by Devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=13375" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=13375</A></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>think you missed my point.  If you add up all the time in SotL, and compare that to the "5" raids where wizzies were resisted.  I think you'll find the amount of raid time where wizzies and warlocks were resisted is about the same.  Drayek took about 1/20th the time SotL did.</P> <P> </P> <P>edit: do like your thread though<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Geoff77 on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:09 PM</span>

[Kalel]

<DIV>I think you understimated the amt of raids that wizards were resisted on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is a detailed breakdown of alot of raid mobs pre-DoF and their resistances from a wizards point of view. (Credit to Rastaoun for this write up)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overlord Oxulius<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> and magic based attacks<BR>----Immolation ticks for around 150, twice if you're lucky<BR>----BoFl, Bof hit the majority of the time for between 25% and 50% damage<BR><BR>King Zalak<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks<BR>----This guy resists BoF, BoFl like crazy as he does Flamestrike<BR><BR>King Zatan<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks (pretty sure)<BR>-<FONT color=#00cc00>No problem</FONT> with <FONT color=#ff0000>heat </FONT>based attacks<BR><BR>Alangria<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> and magic based attacks (no debuffs)<BR><BR>Vision of Vox<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to<FONT color=#3399ff> cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> and magic based attacks (no debuffs)<BR>----Immolation ticks on her pretty well<BR>----BoF, BoFl hit for reduced numbers, but they hit<BR><BR>Spirit of Vox<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>commpletely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> and magic based attacks (no debuffs)<BR>----Immolation ticks on her prety well<BR>----BoF, BoFl hit for reduced numbers, but they hit<BR></DIV> <DIV>Arch Lich Uludan<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to<FONT color=#3399ff> cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> and magic based attacks (no debuffs)<BR>----Immolation ticks for around 150, twice if you're lucky<BR>----BoFl, Bof hit the majority of the time for between 25% and 50% damage<BR><BR>The Kra'Thuk<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold </FONT>based attacks<BR>-resistant, but not terribly so, with <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks (no debuffs)<BR><BR>King Drayek<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks (no debuffs)<BR>----I get many resists on BoF and BoFl with this guy<BR><BR>Lord Nagalik<BR>-<FONT color=#00cc00>No problem</FONT> with<FONT color=#3399ff> cold</FONT> based attacks since debuffs can be used<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks<BR></DIV> <DIV>Xiggalg </DIV> <DIV>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold </FONT>based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat </FONT>based attacks<BR><BR>Acrimoniad<BR>-<FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#00cc00>No problem</FONT> with <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>Tremblar</P> <DIV>-initial ^^^ Symbiants are <FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold </FONT>based attacks</DIV> <DIV>-<FONT color=#00cc00>No problems</FONT> with <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks<BR>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat </FONT>based attacks<BR><BR>Knubed</DIV> <DIV>-<FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold </FONT>based attacks<BR>-resistant, but not terribly so, with <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks (no debuffs)<BR></DIV> <DIV>Either <FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold </FONT>based attacks or<FONT color=#ff9900> completely immune</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks: 13 (68.4%)<BR><FONT color=#ff9900>Completely immune</FONT> or <FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#3399ff>cold</FONT> based attacks or <FONT color=#ff9900>completely immune</FONT> or <FONT color=#ffff00>extremely resistant</FONT> to <FONT color=#ff0000>heat</FONT> based attacks: 15 (78.9%)<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that tells the tale right there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <P><BR></P><p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:11 PM</span>

[V4n]

I sympathize with wizards previous situation and am happy that is it now fixed. So "balance" is having us take turns at being broken? Of course not. But it seems so often true that to balance one class they tear down and break another.

[Kalel]

<DIV>We will see how they handle it.  Looks like we are on the right track with SoE acknowledging that they are looking at the post I made. Cross your fingers that they actually do it correctly. </DIV>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Geoff77 wrote:<div></div><p>think you missed my point.  If you add up all the time in SotL, and compare that to the "5" raids where wizzies were resisted.  I think you'll find the amount of raid time where wizzies and warlocks were resisted is about the same.  Drayek took about 1/20th the time SotL did.</p><hr></blockquote>Plenty of mobs in SotL resisted either fire or ice, difference was that they usually where only immune to one type and not resisting the other. Saying warlocks had it worse just because of 1 raidzone is amusing, yet far from the truth. Having said that, i agree that warlocks should get another dmg type. With the wizard and warlock spell lines being almost equal it can't be hard to split the types the same way as they did with fire/ice for wizards.</span><div></div>