So what are your thoughts?

[eoj]

So the combat updates went live today.  What are your thoughts on our redefined class? I personally had a little trouble in Feerrott soloing the groups of lizard men, but Harclave... Jesus.  I ripped through the place so fast.  <div></div>

[Ziffna]

stick nihilism on yourself if not do it and have fun,

[Sha]

<P><SPAN>Most posts I’ve read in this forum so far are higher level Warlocks, so guess I’ll tell of my experience at level 35 hehe…</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>After I spent some time familiarizing myself with all the spells I decided to hope over to Harclave (hardly any guildmates/friends were online at the time). <SPAN> </SPAN>Figured it’d be a good, safe way, to see what all I could do and get use to the new hotkey layouts.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Took on the first mob instead of invis’ing through. <SPAN> </SPAN>Root seemed to work good at first, got my three DoT’s on. <SPAN> </SPAN>Then it started to go down hill after it broke (but was also kind of stumbling around my hotkeys hehe). <SPAN> </SPAN>DD’s just weren’t doing much.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I probably should have continued on after killing it but went invis and got the buff.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>After I got the buff, I backed out without killing the 6 ghost spawn and cleared the single mobs and the heroic gnolls on the bottom floor. <SPAN> </SPAN>This is when I realized a ‘debuff’ which inflicts 130 – 170 damage on the target when hit with a spell. <SPAN> </SPAN>Starting off with my three DoT’s, that debuff, then HO using lower nuke, then Dark Distortion seemed to work well. <SPAN> </SPAN>Then, after a few more mobs, I began melee’ing a bit… omg, I was actually dishing out some good damage. <SPAN> </SPAN>With my melee buffs on I switched over to my Branch of the Treefolke and went to town lol. <SPAN> </SPAN>Granted, when solo’ing without the Harclave buff this will probably not be to viable, but in groups it’s a nice added DPS. <SPAN> </SPAN>(Note:<SPAN>  </SPAN>Never paid attention to any melee damage I did, didn’t think it was much, but definitely think this is a huge boost.)</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Finally got to the group heroic’s and, as you put it, ripped through them extremely fast! <SPAN> </SPAN>Was having a blast… until Najena went down *sigh*<SPAN>  </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So my closing thoughts:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Melee damage is a nice, situational, addition.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN>-          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Interrupted (and stunned) less.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Was worried about this on long casting AE spells.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Roots appear to hold better (not breaking after casting Curse of Darkness like every other mob was).</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Buffs consolidated plus no more 10 minute buffs, all permanent until canceled.<SPAN>  </SPAN>(I hated buffing!)</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Lower damage on DD’s a bummer, but with additional/changed DoT’s and ‘debuff’ shouldn’t be to bad off.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Groups of non-heroic/bracketed mobs should drop easier than previously (no personal experience yet, just a guess hehe)</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>AE Stifle and Stun spells affecting encounter (max 5… think the stifle/stun only affected the targeted mob before)</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><SPAN>-<SPAN>          </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>That’s all I can think of at this time, was having a blast though. <SPAN> </SPAN>Still need more than 1 hour of play time to test all playing environments (minus raids, to low for that heh) but I think it’ll still be a blast!</SPAN></P>

[Ziffna]

<DIV> <DIV>I personally play a warlock as my main and from memory these are the changes that most annoy me in reguards to spells that i have upgraded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entire Invis line ----> summon shadows (broken) non upgradeable</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nullmail Master 1 -----> Nullmail non upgradable still have to be hit many times to lose agro with this spell ( probably lose agro when dead not b4)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soul Flay----> fixed after a year of being broke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Curse of Emptiness (poi/dis debuff single target)------> curse of emptiess ( debuffs max hp/power, no effect if mob has taken more then 300ish damage b4 spell lands)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aura of Emptiness 9.5 second stun non epic small dd ---> Aura of Emptiness reactive dot 3 tick max.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wicked Gift line (group power buff 380 power ad3) 10 min buff -----> Wicked Gift 30 s damage aura only good when you cast a spell then it uses additional mana to proc. only triggerable with poison damage from a warlock ie yourself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seal line Int/str buff ----> casting skill buff ( still no noticable benifit at ad3)Not sure what benifit this spell really has casters are mainly casting heal spells which don't get resisted, and having run around for an hour with this spell killing level 56-59 heroics with a group of 5 with it off i didn't have any noticable reduction in my resists with it off or improvement with it on. Still a worthless spell imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other things i have noticed:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nihlism- nice spell agro needs to be transfered to the tank on AE apprpreate encounters this combined with other upgraded ae's even after waiting means death i have pulled agro with just this spell when dealing with large groups of mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall decrease in our mana effecincy</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Much harder to achieve or maintain respectable dps much more dot stacking/dumb fire pets/strange reactive damage spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Less utility - breakable roots( no more root and move when you get agro root will break when tank engages), more restrictive buffing might be able to buff 2 melee with a damage proc buff 3 if you don't use nihlism on the tank. No str/int buff. we got a casting buff tho.  Fewer stuns/shorter stuns. No big power buff. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Less predictablity - with the change to our damage range by expanding the mainly the lower end of the damage range in some cases quite significantly our damage even with debuffed mobs is quite irratic and other then out right resists i don't see any point in debuffing period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall i think this revamp spells the end of the game unless some things are fixed and quick warlocks are supposed to be poison disease aoe specialists but with the changes to tank agro no tank can even hold agro with a warlock going at half the dps that is possible.  While i haven't gotten to test it on live the random teleport spell just seems a waste of a spell for warlocks the dozen or so times  i used it while we could at 50 on beta the mob was essentially teleported from my right shoulder to my left shoulder there needs to be a minimum distance the mob is teleported away from you i see this spell needing to funtion much like a mobs knock back not some random bs.  The simple idea of having to dumb fire pet/debuff/reverse reactive/dot/dd in order to come up with even close to the damage a wizard can with simple debuff dd chaining is agravating, let alone all the extra agro that is generated from having to cast so many more spells to keep up.</DIV></DIV>

[eoj]

I've also noticed the aggro problems.  I tried putting the nihilism buff on my friend.  As soon as it woudl proc off, they would go straight for me.  Like I said, Harclave is a breeze.  I'm level 35, and I did a very difficult without any trouble, but still, unless I'm out killing solo mobs, I have a rough time still.  The roots are nicer, had them hold several times the entire fight.  I'd really just like some better DD spells.  Distortion sucks now.  3 sec cast 12 sec recast.  Noxious bolt is garbage.  I find myself casting null absolution 2 times per encounter since it does the most damage.  I'm hoping that maybe I just haven't really gotten used to the new Warlock, or maybe it's because they actually made yellow and orange con mobs difficult to kill, but right now, I'm not overly impressed outside of Harclave, which isn't even the real world.  I just hope the kinks get worked out, and this isn't the final revision of the Warlock class.  I'd love to have some sort of changes made relatively soon, or else all the time I'm going to put in while the bonus exp is in will just be a waste.  I almost want to make a wizard, just to be like I used to.  I could never use my AE's in a group situation, just brings all of the mobs on to me. While fighting grouped mobs in the real world, I start off with a root, steal breath, then null absolution, suffocating cloud, then attempt to finish off the mobs with DD, but end up waiting on null absolution to refresh to kill them.  Maybe I'm going about my fights wrong?  If so, someone teach me so I can enjoy my class again.  Cheers folks! <div></div>

[Galn]

<DIV>Here's another lower level perspective...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I took conflagration and Negative Absolution as my two Master II skills. Neg Abs max's over 700 dmg and Dark Distortion max's over 650 for me. At first I put Neg Abs in my section with all my other AoE's and tried to group up all my DD Nukes and the roots/DoT's like I had before. Then it hit me.. I organized my hotkeys as follows - Root-HO-Neg Abs-Dark Dist-Freeze-Ice Blast. I started out slow killing some trash in Antonica, the Neg Abs killed all of them like I thought it would do, so I headed to TS and played with some lvl 21-24 mobs (was 25 at the time). These all fell with either the Neg Abs or Dark Dist. The few blues and whites I took on dropped very fast and the root always held until at least my first nuke hitting like it is supposed to now. I got brave and decided to try a wolf that was white con Heroic ^^.... the first time I watched in horror as both my Neg Abs and Dark Dist were resisted and I died, but I did get him down to about 10% health. So.. I headed back, got my shard and tried again. This time he resisted my Dark Dist near the end and I had him down so there was no health showing on the bar at all and I died again. With a little less bad luck I know I could take him out. I then wandered down near RoV and started taking on lvl 26-27 skeletons and most of these went down after casting 4-5 nukes, maybe casting a second Neg Abs, but rarely much more. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I put the long cat time Negative Absolution right after my Root and HO starter because the root will hold until the mob takes damage now. After taking the two power-nukes plus a HO most mobs are dead, even some of the tougher yellows. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm almost afraid to try harclave............... with Neg Abs at 700 Max, and 2 more AoE's at 250 Max dmg it could be a walk through for me. Difficult Harclave was in my reach before. Also makes me wonder if the Pit Champ is within my reach now....</DIV>

[Astery]

yes, i like to solo, and i miss my nukes... mostly i end up running away from broken root situations, its no fun anymore. i still cannot believe this is happening to this game as well, it seems nerfing is like a virus nowadays infecting many mmogs. they had to make radical changes because of the duel system, OK. but i would duel ~1% of the time, and do the usual activities 99%!!! does this worth messing up classes???? as a good old tip: "always add, and take only when its absolutely necessary." i give two weeks for a fix, or i likely wont renew and take my accounts elsewhere... /flame on

[Dae]

The current changes have nothing to do with PvP whatsoever. <div></div>

[Astery]

so  a new nerfing session is on the way when it comes to pvp?

[Dae]

PvP uses a spell system that runs parallel to the one used in PvE. It's possible for a spell to have a totally different effect in PvP than it does in PvE allowing the two systems to be balanced independently. Keep crying though. <div></div>

[Astery]

i let my twins cry - they are pretty loud sometimes hehe - however all i wanted to tell here is that i'm not happy with the changes, and i would love to see the min damage back as it was.

[Dae]

Yeah me too. Consistency is required for aggro management and generally being able to kill stuff before it kills me. <div></div>

[Madha]

<P>Casting Null absolution on and on because direct nukes are worthless is ridiculous. I cast it on solo mobs, groups, whatever I can, so I'm oop most of the time. If I try anything else, considering Bony grasp breaks as soon as you nuke, I'm dead.</P> <P>I don't know where they pulled this 'AoE specialist' idiotic idea from, but I have the impression that the only point was to find something that would make us different from wizzards. Well, we are. And I'm not sure anyone among us would have rolled a 'AoE specialist', honestly.</P> <P>We're lucky they didn't come out with an 'invisibility specialists' idea... or a 'infravision master' concept. </P> <P>I'm curious to see who's gonna roll a warlock from scratch now. </P> <P> </P>

[EQ-]

<DIV>My 2cents is that since combat changes i take a LOT longer to kill the same mobs as i was killing before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am lvl 40, so dont know about the higher spells, but i used to nuke, stun (10secs!), nuke, root, nuke and almost anything was dead. Now they take away my long stun! reduce my dd spells and basically one mob which i used to solo about 8 times a day almost made me run oop, i had to cast invite void for the first time ever when solo!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That spell alone almost kills me <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I grouped the other day after the changes, held back and back and back until i thought i could nuke safe enough, 2 spells later i had aggro! this was with a tank i knew i could trust. I daren't even consider taking on groups and casting my aoe spells, how much aggro is 1k damage on 5 targets gonna give me?! answer = who cares because i will be dead!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Got out DPS'd by a ranger also!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before the changes if we were fighting a big mob i would stand back and cast a few debuffs etc, maybe the odd stun and then when it was at 50% i would nuke it like hell and you could see huge chunks of its health suddenly dissapear as i nuked. Now because i only have 3 debuffs and one crappy stun i basically stand about till the mob is 50%, nuke it once or twice, draw aggro and die, without so much as seeing its health satisfyingly go down like it did before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>M not gona leave the game, i still love the friends i have made etc, but dear god please make sony put me back as i was!</DIV>

[Astery]

earlier, the "team xp debt" had a nice encouraging effect on tanks -> to keep aggro away from DD, or they also suffer... today, i just been told, "take aggro and die dude..." how nice. ofc i wont team that tank anymore!  (still thinking to say his name here grrrr) once thing for certain, when we take aggro in random group, the tank wont be too much worried if you take one more hit... its not his/her dept anyways. no comment.

[Magiocracy]

<div></div>Well to be honest I'm overall happy so far : The Good : AE dps is excellent - if you deliberately look for soloable groups of mobs with Dev/DN/NA you can knock them over incredibly fast. Groups are now by far and away our target of choice. Vulian Interference/Intrusion is a GREAT emergency spell - instant cast and 4.5/6.5 sec duration is enough time to recast one of our 2 sec roots. Much more varied ways to do things - instead of the old 'mash the same three buttons again and again' I know have to think about what spells to use and in what sequence. From my point of view, that's a good thing. The Bad : Roots are very very unreliable, even at Adept3 quality. Bony Grasp, which allegedly has half the chance to break than Cower breaks often on the first or second spell. Also having non-damaging spells having a chance to break root is a bit silly. Power efficiency on single mobs is quite bad, although on groups it's fine. Our defense is now much worse than before, you can get ripped up real fast even by blue down arrows - caster mobs are now absolutely brutal. Plus with all the snare attacks mobs now have, getting away from a bad situation is far more difficult than before. Damage variance on our big spells (NA/Dev) is still ridiculously high. This was one of our biggest issues at the end of beta and SOE in their wisdom don't seem to see anything wrong with my Adedt3 Nil Absolution hitting for anything between 900 and 1700 damage. /boggle Bottom line I suppose is that I am enjoying it more than before...and when it comes down to it, that's what counts. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:47 PM</span>

[Niuan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magiocracy wrote:<BR> Well to be honest I'm overall happy so far :<BR><BR>The Good :<BR><BR>AE dps is excellent - if you deliberately look for soloable groups of mobs with Dev/DN/NA you can knock them over incredibly fast. Groups are now by far and away our target of choice.<BR><BR>Vulian Interference/Intrusion is a GREAT emergency spell - instant cast and 4.5/6.5 sec duration is enough time to recast one of our 2 sec roots.<BR><BR>Much more varied ways to do things - instead of the old 'mash the same three buttons again and again' I know have to think about what spells to use and in what sequence. From my point of view, that's a good thing.<BR><BR>The Bad :<BR><BR>Roots are very very unreliable, even at Adept3 quality. Bony Grasp, which allegedly has half the chance to break than Cower breaks often on the first or second spell. Also having non-damaging spells having a chance to break root is a bit silly. <BR><BR>Power efficiency on single mobs is quite bad, although on groups it's fine.<BR><BR>Our defense is now much worse than before, you can get ripped up real fast even by blue down arrows - caster mobs are now absolutely brutal. Plus with all the snare attacks mobs now have, getting away from a bad situation is far more difficult than before.<BR><BR>Damage variance on our big spells (NA/Dev) is still ridiculously high. This was one of our biggest issues at the end of beta and SOE in their wisdom don't seem to see anything wrong with my Adedt3 Nil Absolution hitting for anything between 900 and 1700 damage. /boggle<BR><BR>Bottom line I suppose is that I am enjoying it more than before...and when it comes down to it, that's what counts.<BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:47 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well the revamp is a love hate thing...  I feel like a god with the AE nukes I have at 28... fighting green double down arrow groups I can own!  AE dps is definitely up there.  but died 4 times last night grouping trying to feel out the agro line.. seems kinda random lol

[Weas]

<P>I found pvp interesting today.  I'm a 48 Warlock and dueled a 50 Brigand.  I started out with a vulian interference to quickly immobilize him... then deter... nuke... cower.  Nil Absolution, frozen manacles, deter, nil distortion, soul flay... he dead.  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>He got me with deception though and almost finished me in one hit.</P> <P> </P>

[Synd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR>yes, i like to solo, and i miss my nukes... mostly i end up running away from broken root situations, its no fun anymore. <BR><BR>i still cannot believe this is happening to this game as well, it seems nerfing is like a virus nowadays infecting many mmogs.<BR><BR>they had to make radical changes because of the duel system, OK. but i would duel ~1% of the time, and do the usual activities 99%!!! <BR>does this worth messing up classes????<BR><BR>as a good old tip: "always add, and take only when its absolutely necessary."<BR><BR>i give two weeks for a fix, or i likely wont renew and take my accounts elsewhere...<BR><BR>/flame on<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Are we playing the same game? Which nukes do you miss? We have six nukes that actually work fine. I think SOE did a good job balancing warlocks.</P> <P> </P> <P>Syndrome of Lucan D'Lere</P>

[Kven]

<DIV>I'm very happy with the changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have to think now.  Player skill comes in a bit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since I was not on beta, I did some testing last night...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was able to take down heroic level 50 ^^^'s in the desert ( giants )[ speaking of which, I forgot about my mastery spell ,crap <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ]</DIV> <DIV>but at much risk.  Roots aren't as reliable as before, so you have to be prepared.  It takes a bit longer to take down said mobs</DIV> <DIV>because to play it safe, you wait for VI to refresh before casting nukes.  If root breaks, nail it w/ a quick VI and follow that up with a root.</DIV> <DIV>Wait for VI to refresh, repeat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I rushed myself, I did die once or twice due to root breaking and them just getting a stun on me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was also soloing in the Clefts last night.  Taking down yellow no-arrows, groups of yellow v's,vv's and vvv's seems to be no problem IF you play smart.</DIV> <DIV>Bony Grasp, hit one of them with Aura of Emptiness ( my new favorite spell btw ) and a different mob in same encounter with Chaotic Maelstrom.  Start off with Dark Nebula and 50% of the time the rest of the mobs in the encounter will be infected with CM.  Even if root breaks at this point, the DN stuns them while you're casting Devastation.  This usually kills them.  If they are a higher level, sometimes you may need to follow up with Nil Absolution.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In groups:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nihilism = bad sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Tank would pull something and proc on it nearly instantly, at least in the first 2 hits, and it would sometimes go right after me.  I did notice, however, that the damage done by this spell can be quite substantial if you're in a melee-heavy group [ or raid ].  You see swirling grey clouds all the time around the mobs.  The bad part is, it tacks that on to YOUR aggro and not said melee-type.  All-in-all, great spell, just have to be extremely careful with your nukes while you have this on 3 targets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you let the tank get 1-2 taunts off before laying in with the AEs, they can generally be controlled quite well.  Again, depending on using Nihilism to generate extra aggro, you must feel your way through and keep an eye on your damage window to see how much your melee-types are proccing your spell.  The more they proc, the less you want to be AE'ing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FYI, I chose Soul Flay as my level 44 training option.  I have Adept III Seal, and M2 would have only given me +4 more to the skill.  While that may be nice and all, Soul Flay went up considerably in damage from Adept III to Master II. I do, however, plan on choosing Seal of Ebon Thought for the 54 choice, as I have the Masters of the other spells already.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Master I of Devastation, Dark Nebula, and Nil Absolution = nice <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, overall, I'm extremely happy.  Our spells do quite a lot of damage if you use them right, you can't just mash buttons like pre-CC.  Good job SOE.  I'm quite happy.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Next test: raids <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   I'm in the top raiding guild on my server ( 2 guilds that compete, they think they're the best, we know we're the best <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) ... we're frantically trying for level 60 as fast as we can so we can get to raiding.  I'll post again once I start raiding again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kvenau wrote:<div>I'm very happy with the changes.</div> <div> </div> <div>You have to think now.  Player skill comes in a bit.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Since I was not on beta, I did some testing last night...</div> <div> </div> <div>I was able to take down heroic level 50 ^^^'s in the desert ( giants )[ speaking of which, I forgot about my mastery spell ,crap <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ]</div> <div>but at much risk.  Roots aren't as reliable as before, so you have to be prepared.  It takes a bit longer to take down said mobs</div> <div>because to play it safe, you wait for VI to refresh before casting nukes.  If root breaks, nail it w/ a quick VI and follow that up with a root.</div> <div>Wait for VI to refresh, repeat.</div> <div> </div> <div>When I rushed myself, I did die once or twice due to root breaking and them just getting a stun on me.</div> <div> </div> <div>I was also soloing in the Clefts last night.  Taking down yellow no-arrows, groups of yellow v's,vv's and vvv's seems to be no problem IF you play smart.</div> <div>Bony Grasp, hit one of them with Aura of Emptiness ( my new favorite spell btw ) and a different mob in same encounter with Chaotic Maelstrom.  Start off with Dark Nebula and 50% of the time the rest of the mobs in the encounter will be infected with CM.  Even if root breaks at this point, the DN stuns them while you're casting Devastation.  This usually kills them.  If they are a higher level, sometimes you may need to follow up with Nil Absolution.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>In groups:</div> <div> </div> <div>Nihilism = bad sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Tank would pull something and proc on it nearly instantly, at least in the first 2 hits, and it would sometimes go right after me.  I did notice, however, that the damage done by this spell can be quite substantial if you're in a melee-heavy group [ or raid ].  You see swirling grey clouds all the time around the mobs.  The bad part is, it tacks that on to YOUR aggro and not said melee-type.  All-in-all, great spell, just have to be extremely careful with your nukes while you have this on 3 targets.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you let the tank get 1-2 taunts off before laying in with the AEs, they can generally be controlled quite well.  Again, depending on using Nihilism to generate extra aggro, you must feel your way through and keep an eye on your damage window to see how much your melee-types are proccing your spell.  The more they proc, the less you want to be AE'ing.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>FYI, I chose Soul Flay as my level 44 training option.  I have Adept III Seal, and M2 would have only given me +4 more to the skill.  While that may be nice and all, Soul Flay went up considerably in damage from Adept III to Master II. I do, however, plan on choosing Seal of Ebon Thought for the 54 choice, as I have the Masters of the other spells already.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Master I of Devastation, Dark Nebula, and Nil Absolution = nice <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Again, overall, I'm extremely happy.  Our spells do quite a lot of damage if you use them right, you can't just mash buttons like pre-CC.  Good job SOE.  I'm quite happy.  </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Next test: raids <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   I'm in the top raiding guild on my server ( 2 guilds that compete, they think they're the best, we know we're the best <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) ... we're frantically trying for level 60 as fast as we can so we can get to raiding.  I'll post again once I start raiding again.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Will second all of that - Nihilism is very definietly a double edged sword. Also, the new invis is very very handy when soloing. The fast cast means you can invis immediately after a combat in the middle of an aggro zone and give yourself time to regen as well as pick your next target. Also, Aura of Emptiness procs twice on HO completion with a poison spell (assuming it has two charges left) - this really adds some oomph to your HO's. With mostly Adept3's and good treasured+HQ gear, I can reliably take on blue and white ^^ with some danger, and can also deal with yellow ^ 4 levels higher than me with a little luck. Biggest groups I've managed so far are the 4xlevel54 guards in Maj'Dul. It's so much more fun taking on groups than single mobs <span>:smileyhappy:</span> </span><div></div>

[Collectall3]

<DIV>I agree with Magiocracy  I am happy with the changes so far .... I liked my Warlock before the combat changes but after spending some time playing on test and on Live yesterday overall the combat changes are fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I spent some time in the sinking sands yesterday with a group of guildies and I was almost always #1 DPS in the group unless I was eating or getting phone calls.  Unfortunatly my Wizzy friend had to work lastnight so he was not in the group but we had a ranger and a assasian and on single targets they  were somewhat close to my DPS I averages between 280- 360 DPS on single target blue heroics. And in multi mob encounters sometimes combat stats just gave me #### instead of numbers because my DPS was so frickin awesome. Always cast Aura of Emptiness at the begining of the fight the extra 300 -400 damage helps alot  for single target damage and it takes like 1 sec to cast. Nihilism can be a great dps or bad aggro use it with care.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well I can no longer solo yellow heroics now but I really don't think you should be able to I have noticed that my Master 1 Frozen Manacles seems to work better then cower the snare effect helps alot and it does not seem to break as fast plus it costs less power.  My Cower and Bony Grasp are Adept 3 I was killing groups of 5 blue v with out a problem and could kill Yellow even cons with out much problem. Like Magiocracy said the  Damage variance on our spells is rediculous and needs to be toned down a bit more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PvP</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played in the Team arena a little lastnight also and it was a lot of fun got to watch out for those Assasins though the will sneak up behind u and 1 shot kill you. A little more single target DPS would help out here but I followed a few of my teamates around invis and would wait for them to engage  then I would cast Devistation and then Nil Abs or Nil Distortion depending on how far apart the targets were spaced out and what was going on some times a quick Dot. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dueled quite a few people the other night and won most of the time the only time I got slaughtered was a 1 shot kill from Ice Comet wich sucked but over all it was fun and u really have to use your stuns and interupts in order to win consistantly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlock 1-50 Spell pics</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=11557" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=11557</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Collectall3 on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 AM</span>

[Tanatus]

<P>Some food for toughts</P> <P>Good:</P> <P>Frozen Manacle  ... - this root is rocks its you PRIMARY root now. Duration and recast mean nothing after brake snare is. Hence nowdays wizards roots FAR superior over warlock roots</P> <P>Vullian Intereferance - AWESOME, instant cast time and for 4.5 second you can land on mob what ever spell you like (hint: it will be root <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P>No need to debuff mobs - good, with new way our seal of dark renimation work</P> <P>Deter is good - situantional but good - 30s recast allow you use stun-nuke at least once per fight</P> <P>Dark Nebula - good AE short duration stun-nuke, fast cast, fast recast somethat better then deter because of it </P> <P>Amount of HP of mobs been reduced - lol I killed Pit champ on solo arena outright within single round of combat</P> <P>Bad:</P> <P>Roots in general sucks - worst is Bonny grasp - just an example - Frozen Mancle can sustein Chaotic Maelstorm + Aura of Emptiness + HO Nil Dist + Soul Flay w/o brake - haha try do same on Bony grasp - usualy second-third tic of Chaotic Maelstorm brake the root</P> <P>Single target DPS sucks monkeys balls and let me repeat in 1000 time why.... Nil Distortion as our primary nuke been nerfed by ~50%. Before rewamp hitting BSS+ND on target under CoE+CM usually score anywhere from 2300 to 3000 total damage and requied around 6-8s to execute.... After rewamp debuff dont matter and ND score around 1K average.... Our NB been replaced with Soul Flay .... good? nah SAME... Adept 3 Nox Bolt RELAIBLE score in range 650-850 (if you take in acount after dot) ... with recast 6.5s... Soul Flay score 520-840 with 4s recast AT MASTER 2. Look on average damage 750 for Nox Bolt Adept 3 6.5s recast and 660 Soul Flay at Master 2 with 4s recast so DPS are 750/8.5s = 88 for NB Adept 3 and 660/6s = 110 for SF M2 (for Adept 3 you would get same 88 DPS)</P> <P>Dark Pyre ... NERFED lol why? it was sucky nuke anyway what a was a reason for nerfing it lol. Before rewamp my master 1 DP was reasonably good tetrinar nuke doing 334-555 damage per impact every 6s (2s cast 4s recast) nowdays its really cheap [Removed for Content] dot it do 589-1084 OVER 10s oh ya almost fogot DP WILL brake ANY root</P> <P>Torment ..... lol been nerfed for about 50% it was barely usefull for pulling (still but use with causion since root sucks) it been doing solid 134 per tic and 134 per impact for total 7 tics at adept 3 netting around 900 damage before rewamp. Lol, roflmao now its 58-83 per impact and same amount each tic ....</P> <P>Curse of Emptiness - WHAT A WASTE <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - before rewamp it was reasonably good poison debuffer with long duration well nowdays good only for nil cristal replication</P> <P>Aura of Emptiness - BIG LOST - we dont have long duration stuns anymore. Yes you WILL cast this dump spell every fight because otherwise single target DPS lose is just way to sever. Bad thing is also that AoE will NOT trigger on DoTs and Rains (aka Devastation will not trigger AoE extra damage only DD) - you have to use DD to get those 320-380 extra </P> <P>What is unchanged</P> <P>Our AE attacked stay pretty much same like they were (not over time here we doing definitly better because of Nihilism and Dark Nebula but per impact)</P> <P>Devastation pretty much unchanged well I'd say tiny beafed. Nil Absolution is SAME like combination Neg Abs Null Abs and Nil Abs before rewamp </P> <P>To my BIG suprise overall mana consumption IS NOT changed may be even improved somethat... How I come to this? well usually it take around 7-10 min to do solo arena now its took less then 4-5</P> <P>To my suprise I STILL able withstand melee damage regardless of loss massive chunk of avoidance. Let say staying Toe to Toe with 1 arrow up (new con system) lvl 46-47 mob (blue con) I take very little damage</P>

[DasSteigVonTodd]

<DIV>Oh god, listen to yourselves, "I was killing groups of blue v and green vv's." How much exp did you get from those? What? .1%? Reward? I killed over 100 of these cute little v and vv's and got 0 chests, and 6 peices of body loot. A fire toad from lava storm, is now green ^^^.  We went from a class that ABSOLUTLEY owned hands down into a group needy aggro stealing mana burning debt machine.</DIV>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>DasSteigVonTodd wrote:<div>Oh god, listen to yourselves, "I was killing groups of blue v and green vv's." How much exp did you get from those? What? .1%? Reward? I killed over 100 of these cute little v and vv's and got 0 chests, and 6 peices of body loot. A fire toad from lava storm, is now green ^^^.  We went from a class that ABSOLUTLEY owned hands down into a group needy aggro stealing mana burning debt machine.</div><hr></blockquote>Actually you're the one who should be listening. One of SOE's stated goals was that noone should be able to solo the ^^^ heroics. They've gone to great pains to make sure that's true. I can kill blue and white ^^  heroic single mobs and groups of 4 yellows up to 4 levels higher than me. If you're expectations are higher than that then you're being irrationally unrealistic. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:07 PM</span>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <SPAN>DasSteigVonTodd wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Oh god, listen to yourselves, "I was killing groups of blue v and green vv's." How much exp did you get from those? What? .1%? Reward? I killed over 100 of these cute little v and vv's and got 0 chests, and 6 peices of body loot. A fire toad from lava storm, is now green ^^^.  We went from a class that ABSOLUTLEY owned hands down into a group needy aggro stealing mana burning debt machine.</DIV></SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We went from an extremely over-powered class to a most realistic class that still has awesome capabilities.</P> <P>From the way you worded it, I'd say you just want the overpowered class back.  I'm sorry, but it's not going to happen.</P> <P>I think we're very balanced now, and with much risk and more time, you CAN still take out heroics, and get decent loot, I was last night.  You just have to play smarter.</P> <P> </P> <P>Adapt, or leave.</P> <P> </P> <P>The choice is yours.<BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I wanted to also clarify something, the reason I can solo even-con ^^^ heroics is because I am nearly full-fabled and lots of masters and rest at Adept III.</DIV> <DIV>I don't think an 'average' warlock will be able to solo it without running out of power... but I still think it's possible, but not a guarantee.</DIV> <DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kvenau on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:01 AM</span>

[V4n]

Level 50 warlock here, medium gear level (prismatic, mix of Adept1/3 spells, Master Soul Flay and Aura of Emptiness). First impression: I like it.  So far I have only done small groups and nothing super hard, so I remain worried about aggro control and our raid role.  For single-target damage, I do OK.  I cast Chaotic Maelstrom, Master Aura of Emptiness, Nil D, Soul Flay, Ice Flame, repeat the DDs.  It adds up to respectable damage; I am not sure it is more or less than before but nothing to cry about. For group mobs, watch out!  I am still experimenting with the best way to approach this to maximize damage and minimize aggro.  For now I am casting Chaotic Maelstrom, Aura of Emptiness on the first mob (love that spell), followed by Dark Nebula, Devastation, then Nil Abs.  If I can get a good share of them dead by the time I hit Nil Abs I can usually finish up with a panic cast of Vulian and/or root and pick them off with Soul Flay or another AoE if available.  Bottom line is our new AoE ability is a BIG gun that can kill a lot of stuff fast, including yourself. I have noticed Nihilism gets me aggro, especially if you have it on the puller and they manage to proc it without first getting group aggro on themselves.  E.g. I had mobs pop on the puller who proc'd Nihilism by getting hit (vs hitting the mobs), and the whole group bee-lined to me.  Scary! It seems that there is now a much wider variation between the bottom and the top of what we can accomplish.  I.e. low-level gear and spells being used in a 1-2-3 button rotation will not do nearly as well as enhanced gear/spells being manipulated with a lot of strategy.  I don't mind the challenge, so long as there is *some* way to excel.  And I am thinking there is. Bottom line, I think this could be a lot of fun if we are willing to work harder.  I know some people would rather "relax" when they play the game, but if you are looking for more excitement it is there.  Let's hope excitement doesn't turn into frustration if the aggro situation can't be managed.

[Thibor24]

<P>My warlock is only 39 but here are my impressions.</P> <P>I can still solo fine, i dont go after the heroics but i didnt before the revamp either.</P> <P>Mobs i used to be able to single shot now take about three damage spells to kill.</P> <P>I'm kinda low on single target nukes, i have nil dist and noxious bolt and thats about it.</P> <P>Most fights i start with null abs even on solo's, follow with flashfreeze then fm, HO with nil dist and noxious bolt then im waiting on timers which isnt good.</P> <P>Any advice on what i can add to my lineup?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Spag]

I rarely ever post on this board, and I must say one single sentence I have read here that I find to be the most <DIV>anoying is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adapt or leave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This single sentence undercuts everything these forums are about.  If we all did as said, then there is no reason to even have forums.  I don't care what your post count is, how helpful you have been to anyone in the past.  This single sentence tells me you are an asshoIe.</DIV>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spagma wrote:<BR>I rarely ever post on this board, and I must say one single sentence I have read here that I find to be the most <DIV>anoying is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adapt or leave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This single sentence undercuts everything these forums are about.  If we all did as said, then there is no reason to even have forums.  I don't care what your post count is, how helpful you have been to anyone in the past.  This single sentence tells me you are an asshoIe.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Color me an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] then.  Words don't hurt me.</P> <P> </P> <P>However, there couldn't be more truth to the situation.  Everyone whining about how they hate it, and they're gonna leave unless it's fixed.</P> <P>Well, the chances of any changes (other than minor tweaks) being made is slim.  The combat changes are here to stay.  You can choose to accept them and find a way to still enjoy the game, or leave.  What other options are there?</P> <P>Feel free to post your opinions, I never said anyone couldn't, but in the end, those are the only 2 choices you have.</P> <P> </P> <P>Feel free to flame me.  I know the facts.  The facts are: play or don't play.  You can post and whine, but you're still going to either play or not, if you play, you're adapting ( or not adapting and hating life <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  If you aren't playing, then ... I'll let ya figure that part out.  Opinions are merely opinions.  Feel free to post them, but in the end, make a choice.</P> <P>Good day.</P>

[Fumbles]

<P>Everyone playing the game post patch needs to adapt. the game has undergone a dramatic change, if you can not adapt to the changes, its time to look for something else to fill your time. These changes have improved the game overall, and there will probably be some minor patches in the coming weeks to smooth out the change's rough edges. </P> <P> </P> <P>Bottom line is everyone has two options at this point - adapt or leave, you may not like the statement, but if you intend on playing you must adapt.</P>

[Spag]

<DIV>ok so everyone log off the forums, no more voicing your concerns here, as stated by the previous posters.  You have your options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I dont have too many issues with my warlock my main beef is with my Warden.  Since this is not the warden forums I will not bring them up here.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But if someone were to tell me the same thing there, I sure as heII would dispute it with them.  But of course pretty much everyone is on the same page there.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:49 PM</span>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spagma wrote:<BR> <DIV>ok so everyone log off the forums, no more voicing your concerns here, as stated by the previous posters.  You have your options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I dont have too many issues with my warlock my main beef is with my Warden.  Since this is not the warden forums I will not bring them up here.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But if someone were to tell me the same thing there, I sure as heII would dispute it with them.  But of course pretty much everyone is on the same page there.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Spagma on <SPAN class=date_text>09-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:49 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And I label you [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] the .[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. because you obviously are the one bringing unnecessary sarcasm here.  I did say you could post your opinions.  Did you even read my post?

[Spag]

<DIV>Yeah I read your post, but posting my concerns was not one of your options.  Like I said my problem was with your out look of shut up or get out.  Everyone here that has issues is simply voicing their concerns and you feel it necessary to stilfle them.  If you say they can post their thoughts and opinions, mean it.  This means not coming back with your stupid conditions.  Not that they have to listen to you, but it certainly shows your true colors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If people are having issues with their characters, you could be a little more supportive.  If everyone just lived with what they were given or rerolled, there would be no progress.  You are not doing a service to the Warlock community by posting such trash.  I am sure if I go back through your posts, I will find atleast one where you are dissastisfied with something and voiced your concerns.  That would make you a hypocrite as well.</DIV>

[Kven]

<P>I do recall posting the following:</P> <P><STRONG>Feel free to post your opinions, I never said anyone couldn't, but in the end, those are the only 2 choices you have.</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG></STRONG> </P> <P>There, I said you could post your opinions.  I also said in the end, you still have to adapt... to deny that would be lying to yourself.</P> <P> </P> <P>And as far as my postings go, there is 1 time when I was upset with SOE, when they nerfed all the regen items.  I posted one complaint, then 20 minutes later I posted again saying that I agreed with the changes, and to ignore my first post, as it was merely emotional.  I fell victim to my own statement... but I at least saw the error in my ways 20 minutes later.</P> <P>Everyone gets emotional from time to time, but when you sit down and rationalize it all, in the end, you can accept it, or not.  Voice your concerns, but do so under the pretense that it may fall on deaf ears.</P> <P> </P> <P>The original post I replied to with the Adapt or Leave was someone saying they were quitting the game.  I tried to reason at first, but in the last statement I layed it out extremely succinctly.  Sugar coat what you want.</P> <P> </P> <P>And I'm done here as to not turn this into a debate of posting methodology.</P>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote: <div> This single sentence tells me you are an asshoIe.</div><hr></blockquote>..and that single sentence tells me you're a troll. I fail to see how pointing out to people that the class definition of the Warlock class has changed, and therefore if they want to avoid frustration and annoyance they need to either adapt to the new tools they've been given or if they don't want to, they should go try another class qualifies someone as being an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. </span><div></div>

[Spag]

<DIV>I am simply saying adapt or leave are not the only options, and to be told that while working out their issues is insulting.  Especially when this thread is asking for their thoughts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way, to get this thread back on track:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was excited, then disappointed, now I am not sure how I feel about these changes as to how it concerns my Warlock.  I did not sign up to be AE, and infact I rarely used my AE as most tanks don't hold encounter aggro very well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also you may have noticed, a couple of our spells are true AE now rather than simply encounter effect, (i.e.  blue background on spell icon).  I do not recall which, but for anyone that is used to using these freely, they will have to keep this in mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was disappointed to see so many spells go on the same timers, as well to see what has become the Blaze line, turned into a DoT.</DIV> <DIV>The recast timer on Dark Distortion is now 12 seconds instead of 9 or so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also don't really like the larger range of damage, it makes things too variable.  Would much rather have a narrow range, even it if it mean lowe over all cap on damage.   But thats just me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, I don't see anything that I cant live with, but am still going to give it a week or two to get used to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone fooled around with Bind Sight?  This seems more like a fluff spell, as I cant think of any real use for it.  Only used it for a few minutes, not even sure if I can target and cast while viewing through another members eyes, though I do know my character is rooted atleast.</DIV>

[Spag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magiocracy wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spagma wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV> This single sentence tells me you are an asshoIe.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>..and that single sentence tells me you're a troll.<BR><BR>I fail to see how pointing out to people that the class definition of the Warlock class has changed, and therefore if they want to avoid frustration and annoyance they need to either adapt to the new tools they've been given or if they don't want to, they should go try another class qualifies someone as being an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].<BR><BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually I am a gnome.  :smileysurprised:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to stroll through my posts and make our assessment of me.</DIV> <P>oh and if he were pointing out that in the manner that you did, I would not have had a problem with it.  Its all about tact.</P><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 PM</span>

[Andre]

<div></div>Actually <a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=93375"><span>Spagma</span></a> had spoken right - such advices like "Adpat or leave" are same to "Can i have you stuff" or "Dont let the door hit yours butt". And are extremely stupid and aggravant.Bad that very few warlocks spoke here due Testfase but it not mean that class is changed without any doubts.All in one - i'm very disappointed in New system. My first and foremost concern - we was simple rerolled in other class, far away from what we have choose and waaay far away from sourcer concept. At least in solo. 90% of my spells and equipment is legendary and blue mob can easy drop me to orange? Is it right? No! This mean not lack in defence but lack in damage and speed with that we could apply our damage. 3 second cast for main nuke is inaceptable. More as 2 seconds is way to much for spells we should cat face to face with mob because root dont hold enought.Nihilism should addres aggro to tank, this one wihtout diskussion - in other case first thing RAID leader bet warlok is "Put yours nihilism deep in you [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]".No, i'm nto voicing here for owerpowered warlocks , but as it is now we are simple not weable.<div></div>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andre Z wrote:<BR> Actually <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=93375" target=_blank><SPAN>Spagma</SPAN></A> had spoken right - such advices like "Adpat or leave" are same to "Can i have you stuff" or "Dont let the door hit yours butt". And are extremely stupid and aggravant.<BR><BR>Bad that very few warlocks spoke here due Testfase but it not mean that class is changed without any doubts.<BR><BR>All in one - i'm very disappointed in New system. My first and foremost concern - we was simple rerolled in other class, far away from what we have choose and waaay far away from sourcer concept. At least in solo. 90% of my spells and equipment is legendary and blue mob can easy drop me to orange? Is it right? No! This mean not lack in defence but lack in damage and speed with that we could apply our damage. 3 second cast for main nuke is inaceptable. More as 2 seconds is way to much for spells we should cat face to face with mob because root dont hold enought.<BR><BR>Nihilism should addres aggro to tank, this one wihtout diskussion - in other case first thing RAID leader bet warlok is "Put yours nihilism deep in you [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]".<BR><BR>No, i'm nto voicing here for owerpowered warlocks , but as it is now we are simple not weable.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No offense, but what language are you speaking here?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, you're complaining because you can't f*cking tank a mob?  Hell, why try to use strategy to defeat something when you can just balls-to-the-wall tank it while nuking... right?  I had ABSOLUTELY no problems solo'ing yesterday.  The first few fights were awkward sure, today I went home for lunch and was EASILY solo'ing the ancient caimen at the Oasis and ^^^ giants, and even-con groups of heroics.  What does it take? Well, the ability to think and use all available tools at your disposal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can every warlock do this? I should hope not... as I'm close to full fabled and nearly all master spells.  But the opportunity is there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Concerning solo (non-heroic) mobs... if you can't defeat them with EASE,  then you're playing your character wrong.  Forget what you knew, learn the new Warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adapt or ... die a lot?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They balanced us out a bit, but with THINKING (god forbid) and decent upgrades ( yes, this means you can't sit at App II forever ) you can prevail.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good day.</DIV>

[Spag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kvenau wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adapt or ... die a lot?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[EQ-]

<DIV>Well i spent the day adapting, because i didnt want to take the other option and leave.</DIV> <DIV><BR>And here is what i have come up with:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo: take on groups on mobs with down arrows, 3,4 or 5 it doesnt make much difference.</DIV> <DIV>The problems lie twofold - FIRST: for my level there f*cking arent any!</DIV> <DIV>SECOND: those that i do find are deep in places where one step left or right gets me killed and so far apart that i can kill 3 before i even realise there are another 2 charging at me from accross the zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Groups: simple - avoid mezzers like the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing plague</DIV> <DIV>They [Removed for Content] you off with their constant shouting of 'NO AOE - mezzing x,y and z', i got to the point where i made a macro for 'No mezzing - nuking x,y and z'.</DIV> <DIV>I was in a group for ages and nothing that was worth fighting came in groups or more than 2, or if they did it was summoned creatures by necro mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 50 this may well be the best change ever, because we will get something like 4 or 5 AOE nukes? which in my book is fine, but i have ONE, yes ONE. I have a group stun and a group root. So i nuke, stun, root, hang about a bit, put the kettle on, walk the dogs, nuke, stun, root, hang about ..... ad infinitum until group is dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When trying not to use my AOE spells i quickly realised that i only had ONE single target nuke of any worth also, i had upgraded noxious bolt to adept 3 lvl, which by the way for me is a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fortune, but what a waste, averaging 400 damage! that barely even moves a mobs health bar. Oh and lets not forget that we can no longer buff our group mates, or debuff the mobs, so while we are waiting before unleashing our 'devastating?' array of one nuke we have to do bugger all apart from possibly root some adds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The strategy i did adopt was thus:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stand on a hill and root mobs while a ranger runs round and round me killing it.</DIV> <DIV>Thats right, i helped a ranger kite! Without so much as causing damage on the mobs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this where we are now? or have i got to put another 2 months of play in to get to lvl 50 before i can cause some damage again and see some nice big orange numbers floating skywards?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a HUGE plus point though i did get over 100% xp today, kill 3 of the bouncers for the stein of moggok and do the splitpaw heroic arena twice. Not that it was as fun as it used to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(PS: i am lvl 41 at the moment, without DoF and refusing to do harclaves over and over again)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just want to state my reasons why i post this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I used to love being a tank once upon a time, nt so i could tank though, i just enjoyed single player games where i had a big axe and some plate mail. Along came the MMORPG and made plate classes into meat shield who do no damage, so there went my fixation with big axes. When i started EQ2 i was rolling alts and found for some reason i liked my warlock, then i realised why. I LOVED it that people in my group relied on me to take out mob x. That was why i enjoyed being plate classes, because on single player games you are the one who does the fighting. i loved having a group which each had its role, my roll was to nuke seven shades out of the enemy, and i (we) were good at it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now i feel unemployed, i have a roll, which was never my own, and isnt REALLY wanted at all. Yes you can say we are useful because of this that and the other, but we were useful before, well f*cking useful!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no need to be uber, in fact i enjoyed the way that somtimes we could kill seemingly anything, but other times our root wouldnt hold and it wa a 1 shot kill. That was exciting, and that should ahve been the tradeoff right there, no survivability for the ability to kill almost at will. B*llocks to anything else they may give us.</DIV>

[DasSteigVonTodd]

<DIV>I played a bit more. Killed the groups of yellow no arrowed mobs higher up. Killed the ^^^ white and blues. Killed some ^^ with a ^ fellow next to him, a few levels up. Just a lot of rooting, ae'ing. DD's suck so bad. When i see my adept3 Nil hitting a target for 988 damage because im too afraid to cast CM for fear of root breakage it makes my eyes burn. Root Root Root. Thats all my solo'ing has turned in to. Half my power in a fight goes to rooting the mobs. Yes, all the spells I use are of adept3 or higher quality, yes, I do have some fabled gear with my prismatic and blah blah blah.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I have adapted already, and see the path that  I must take to keep my warlock going, I still dislike the changes, alot. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is not the character I've strived for for 9 months. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this wont change, but like everyones been saying, I can still have my opinions, and in my opinion, this change sucked. </DIV>

[KlausFlouride]

Biggest thing that stands out for me right now is interupts have increased ten fold.  Having 17 interupts from one group of five v and vv's is a joke.

[Astery]

<P>my wife plays a mystic, so while she were warding me i managed the damage part... up until the patch. I must admit warlock have a good deal of damage change, but take a little time and visit healer forums.... she couldnt keep me alive anymore (warded), so if this wont change back to a reasonable level, we quit this bull-S. we are really upset at this very moment...</P> <P>"long-awaited combat changes..." yeah, sure.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Dae]

Had a bit more chance to try things out last night. I love the HO + AoE combo. The damage variance is annoying but I didn't find it that debilitating while solo. Nil Distortion being on a 3 second cast time is pretty god awful though. Cower and Bony Grasp were holding okay. Better than FM used to. When it came to groups of mobs they just kinda melted. Nihilism is a great solo tool. <div></div>

[Kven]

<DIV>God.... I had this long post typed out and accidentily closed my browser window...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some notes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Chaotic Maelstrom is no longer a DoT, so the chances of it breaking root are very slim.  Out of 100 fights I'd say 1 MIGHT break root. Chaotic Maelstrom is our best debuff bar-none.  It allows our spells to do more damage... there is NO negative to the spell.  It has no DOT component, so again, breaking root is really not a consideration.<BR></LI> <LI>We can once again MELEE while in a group.  That's right, you can actually land hits on mobs' backs now.  You can proc those Prismatics!   You can cause a little bit of extra damage while you're not casting ( and you won't be 100% of the time if you want to live long... you quickly learn this fact when fighting 58^^^ or higher, they hurt when they start smashing you ) [ albeit very slow damage, as my skill is just a few points above the old cap and slowly rising ].  The cap is gone.  Just be careful, mobs this high level do some nice AE melee damage.<BR></LI> <LI>Wicked Gift rocks if you have a caster-heavy group / raid.<BR></LI> <LI>Aura of Emptiness fires when any damage to mob is received, so potentially when melee in your group hit it.<BR></LI> <LI>Toxic Grasp sucks... don't use it.<BR></LI> <LI>Nihilism rocks, just don't put it on the MT.. or you'll find yourself getting aggro on pulls.<BR></LI> <LI>If you have the extra concentration slot, put Nihilism on yourself... you can proc your prismatic / nihilsm now.<BR></LI> <LI>Netheros is AWESOME on heroic mobs... it's the FIRST spell I put up on any pull.  <BR></LI> <LI>I've noticed Curse of Nil is actually quite helpful... at Master I, it drops STR and INT by 52.  That's quite considerable with this new system.  Over the course of longer fights, that's a significant amount of damage.</LI></UL> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any extra tips I'll post as I think of them.</DIV>

[Soefje]

I played for the first time last night.  Lvl 35 (lvled to 36 last night).  My int is 130 buffed.  I could easily fight lvls 30-35.  Did not try anything higher.  It did take longer and several times fighting blue solos, I got to yellow in health (once to red).  I noticed a few things. 1.   FM adept III, even though it is grey, held better than Paralyzing fear adept I.  The MOB feared almost everytime on the break.  I think I need to upgrade PF. 2.  Nil Absolution did as much if not more damage to solo creatures as Dark Distortion (I took master II on both). 3.  I try a group of 5 fairies, blue underlines.  I hit them with the putrid cloud upgrade (can't remember the name), then Absolution.  All but one died before they got to me.  I had to hit one with Dark disortion.  That was kind of cool.  Not sure I would be comfortable doing this with anything higher. 4.  Flashfreeze did not seem to stun the MOB as well as it used to. 5.  Several times nullification would be uncastable, even though I did not cast it.  Can't figure out what other spell it shares a timer with.  Also, I did not know it would break with damage.  It would be nice to have the 4 sec without breaking. 6.  While rooted, I could cast most of my debuffs and DOT's without breaking the root.  Seem to break more frequently on higher level MOBs. Things I think need to be changed. 1.   Distortion line needs to be quicker cast.  Too many interrupts with 3 sec. 2.  At level 35, we need another AOE that is encounter only.  Right now, Suffocating cloud got me killed, because I pulled everything in the area.  3.  I don't like the AOE specialist.  I would rather be a DOT specialist, with a few powerful nukes, than what we got. 4.  We need a diseased based line of spells.  Shadowknights have a disease buff (I'm sure others do also) and this would be a great combo. I will continue for awhile, I have not been in a group yet, soloed all night.  I want to see how the aggro management is.  With the damage Absolution was doing to the solo (hit for over 1,000 a couple of times), I can't see me surviving much. My thoughts. <div></div>

[Strade]

<P>Ok .. I will not post my thought on every change since many person already did it.</P> <P>But I think i like the change. My solo play have become much more fun now. Wher it hurt is in group I think. I was  in a full group with a coercer the other day and I can tell you it was BORING as hell. Not being able to use AoE in group put us to the usesless spot.</P> <P>Actually, I use (solo) - Cower, Devastation, Aura of emptiness, Nill Distortion, soul flay. Mob death. Sometimes root break but its rare and when it does, I put mele on. Yes, we can hit mob with our wand now since we now have 250 in melee skill like everybody <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>For group encounter its even easier cause this is where we really shine imo. Bony Grasp, Devastation, Nil Absolution. Death.</P> <P>This strategy are for solo encounter blue or white and it work. Pretty good XP also. </P>

[Derinius]

<P>I love the changes, mainly the way frozen manacles works now.  That snare absolutely rocks!  I rarely get into melee anymore.</P> <P>I'm a 31 Warlock with treasured and handcrafted gear, all pretty basic stuff.  All of my spells are adept 1 or app4 except one or two new spells that are still app 1.</P> <P>I was in Enchanted Lands killing everything from yellow single up arrows to solo groups of 2 yellow single down arrows.  It was really fun and there was rarely any downtime between fights.  The xp was really flowing.</P> <P>I haven't tried grouping yet, I'll be duoing with a friend later today, we'll see how that goes.</P>

[John Coltra]

<P>So far I am happy, my warlock can still solo the heroic leopards and numbfoots (3 arrows or grouped) quite easily, but wont risk to solo the lvl 50 giant in sinking sands as i will most probably oom and die /shrug</P> <P>In group situation I have become the master of over-aggro ><</P> <P>However i found something is wrong here, some mobs (like Venekor and named pristess in living tomb) are completely immune (actually resist) to our CAs, before revamp we can still inflict like 40-50pct of dmg to poison/disease immune mobs but now we cant, all CAs are resisted even for some named in the new zone </P> <P>SOE PLS NOTE AND FIX IT</P> <P> </P>

[John Coltra]

<P>ummm just want to add an extra thing, dont know if someone has already put it out..</P> <P>The Abysmal Fury is bugged, 50pct of time when I try to cast it it says "target not alive", "not an enemy" blah blah blah, soe pls check and fix it also )</P> <P> </P>

[EQ-]

<DIV>The general line of thinking with this change seems to be:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At lower levels IE <35 Warlocks are enjoying this change, this is because they havent reached the stage where they get most of the damage spells.</DIV> <DIV>Also they did not experience the way warlocks were before the big patch and have not really changed that much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>35-50 seems to be the really [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] hard part, with not enough damage spells, not enough to fight etc etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and 50+ seems to be that aggro management is the issue, do we nuke like [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and die? or sit back and do nothing most of the fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would LOVE this class if i (at lvl 41) got one more AOE nuke on a different timer, and SOE changed aggro so that i wouldnt have to hold back the whole [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fight.</DIV> <DIV>As it is i HATE this change!</DIV>

[Dae]

Grouped in the Hideout instance (52-57 mobs) and Pillars Of Flame (57-59 mobs) for 5 or so hours tonight. While I did notice a decrease in single target damage I really enjoyed the AE side of things and I absolutely love Chaotic Maelstrom. Aggro was pretty much a non-issue. Had a Paladin tanking with a Dirge buffing his aggro. Nihilism did get me initial aggro a couple of times but it was pretty much instantly regained. It didn't really seem much different from before to be honest. <div></div>