About the upgrade or change in september....

[Darkka]

<DIV>I've been that some classes will change either for better or for worse. What is it in store for Warlock? Does anyone know anything? Rumors?</DIV>

[Atd]

Beta has probably started but the NDA makes for tight lips because if you violate it your banned so we will just have to wait until the exspansion comes out to see the changes.

[Lamprey_02]

Wizards will get a boost, however they will continue to complain because they will be 5% behind warlocks in damage. They seem to enjoy complaining. Warlocks will get a slight nerf, but will still be fun to play. Bony grasp/ring of cold will become useless with a very short duration. As for other classes, who cares?

[Norb]

 As far as damage goes, I don't think we'll get nerfed at all.    But, I do think Bony Grasp is gonna get nerfed hard. If we can solo heroic ^^s 5 levels higher than us something is wrong. <div></div>

[Andre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Norbix wrote:<BR> As far as damage goes, I don't think we'll get nerfed at all. <BR> <BR> But, I do think Bony Grasp is gonna get nerfed hard. If we can solo heroic ^^s 5 levels higher than us something is wrong. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hehe, but inother time you cant solo yellow solo encounter because they runthrought roots und resist all things you have. Its just an russian roulette<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Just to mention there  are many melee classes that can solo even epicx2 enocounters ( green of cource) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Fepp]

<span><blockquote><hr>Norbix wrote: As far as damage goes, I don't think we'll get nerfed at all.    But, I do think Bony Grasp is gonna get nerfed hard. If we can solo heroic ^^s 5 levels higher than us something is wrong. <div></div><hr></blockquote>yeah.. remember they rolled out the duration change by accident?  Afterwards moor said they didnt mean to yet and it was rolled out early (to test) Looks like its becoming 12 second root - hopefully with shorter recast/cast timers. Should make things more intresting imo</span><div></div>

[SalBlu]

<P>I'd like to see them fix your Bony Grasp as well so that it is Encounter based.  I've been helping to grind my friend up to 49 so she can get in on some Deception raids, and i'll tell you... duoing with her can be difficult due to placement of mobs when she uses Bony Grasp.  Catches everything even remotely near to the mob.  If it were similar to my Ring of Cold, it would be a serious help.</P> <P>Even if they shorten the duration timers, I think with some proper thought to both our situations (Wizard/Warlock) we'll figure things out and get back into the swing of things.</P> <P>And please... not all of us Wizards whine about what we do now.  I'm happy with my Wizard beyond words, and honestly... I really dont care if i'm outdamaged by someone.  As far as i'm concerned i'm still doing my job and doing it well.</P>

[V4n]

Bony grasp is fine the way it is. I die plenty often enough. Our class is designed for the big-swing, all-or-nothing type experience. We need some big-win capabilities to balance the quick-deaths we suffer. Have you never been the only member of your party or raid to be one-shotted dead early in the fight?I have others remark at "how powerful" I am. I have also had healers grumble about what a nuisance I am to rez. I used to play a paladin in EQ1, sort of the opposite -couldn't do much damage, very hard to kill. I really enjoy the contrast to my warlock now, and hope the excitement stays after the combat rebalance.

[SalBlu]

<DIV>This is why I said that though:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.d2lodshop.com/eq2skills/SkillImages/Warlock/4050/BonyGraspAdI.gif"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you look at it, it seems to me that BG is supposed to be restricted to encounter only, meaning that the way it is now is not the way it actually should be.  As it is now, it is an AOE that ignores targeted Encounter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh... and I die easiliy enough =)  You've got that nailed lol.   I just keep back and keep my stuns and roots cued up and HOPE that nothing gets through the line to sneeze on me.</DIV>

[Fepp]

<span><blockquote><hr>SalBluee wrote:<div>This is why I said that though:</div> <div> </div> <div><img src="http://www.d2lodshop.com/eq2skills/SkillImages/Warlock/4050/BonyGraspAdI.gif"></div> <div> </div> <div>If you look at it, it seems to me that BG is supposed to be restricted to encounter only, meaning that the way it is now is not the way it actually should be.  As it is now, it is an AOE that ignores targeted Encounter.</div> <div> </div> <div>Oh... and I die easiliy enough =)  You've got that nailed lol.   I just keep back and keep my stuns and roots cued up and HOPE that nothing gets through the line to sneeze on me.</div><hr></blockquote>mmm, would be pretty sweet if BG was like Ring of Cold. Sure its nice to be able to root two groups -- but I'm sure you've all tried it in a group situation where its gone bad: Two groups of 6+ mobs aggro your group, it starts to go bad and everyone runs, so you Bony Grasp them all, anyone looking at the  mobs gets so lagged by the spell animation they cant do anything for 10 seconds and anyone in melee range is dead.  Doh! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span><div></div>

[SalBlu]

<DIV>Yeah... that is a pretty handy "Save your butt" manouver.  I hadnt thought of that.</DIV>

[Fepp]

heh, problem is it never really works - i wouldnt recommend it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[SalBlu]

Lol.

[Norb]

<span><blockquote><hr>Andre Z wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Norbix wrote: As far as damage goes, I don't think we'll get nerfed at all.   But, I do think Bony Grasp is gonna get nerfed hard. If we can solo heroic ^^s 5 levels higher than us something is wrong. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>hehe, but inother time you cant solo yellow solo encounter because they runthrought roots und resist all things you have. Its just an russian roulette<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Just to mention there  are many melee classes that can solo even epicx2 enocounters ( green of cource) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <div></div><hr> </blockquote>I can solo yellow solo encounters with frozen manacles just fine. In fact, it's what I do when I go exp'ing most of the time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Can those same melee classes solo orange heroic ^^ mobs? I would love for bony grasp to stay as it is, but in my opinion it is a bit overpowering. </span><div></div>

[Talonis]

I think they are gonna make the changes too big, too late in the game. I doubt we will be anywhere close to what we are now. Nothing is gonna get fixed without nerfing the heck out of something else. That is history. History repeats itself. Just be prepared for the worst. As a class, we currently have very little to complain about. That places the nerf target squarely in the center of our backs.   <div></div>

[jaythedogg]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fepple wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>SalBluee wrote:<div>This is why I said that though:</div> <div> </div> <div><img src="http://www.d2lodshop.com/eq2skills/SkillImages/Warlock/4050/BonyGraspAdI.gif"></div> <div> </div> <div>If you look at it, it seems to me that BG is supposed to be restricted to encounter only, meaning that the way it is now is not the way it actually should be.  As it is now, it is an AOE that ignores targeted Encounter.</div> <div> </div> <div>Oh... and I die easiliy enough =)  You've got that nailed lol.   I just keep back and keep my stuns and roots cued up and HOPE that nothing gets through the line to sneeze on me.</div><hr></blockquote>mmm, would be pretty sweet if BG was like Ring of Cold. Sure its nice to be able to root two groups -- but I'm sure you've all tried it in a group situation where its gone bad: Two groups of 6+ mobs aggro your group, it starts to go bad and everyone runs, so you Bony Grasp them all, anyone looking at the  mobs gets so lagged by the spell animation they cant do anything for 10 seconds and anyone in melee range is dead.  Doh! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Default settings for options in EQ2 make it so only the warlock sees the Bony Grasp animation. Hence, the warlock stays to die. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /g what happened uber_warlock_01? We all made it, but you stayed to die... /g I rooted em all, turned to run, but got lag-mezzed into staying for the bloody show!</span><div></div>

[Dae]

Heh yeah with my current set up using Bony Grasp on just one mob lags me out a little. If it hits a group I chug rather severely. Aparently the combat change is hitting the test server today. Unfortunately since we can't copy our characters over (big problem) there's no way for me to actually help them test it. <div></div>

[Aral]

<P>Something I don't see a lot of folks mentioning - the biggest change is going to be that we all are "Starting over" when it comes to upgrades of spells, and most of us will lose dps, unless immediately lucky with masters.  </P> <P>Expect to see Nil distortion, Noxious bolt, and any other damage spell under level 44 reduced to uselessness.  Due to the change from spells growing by skill level to fixed "this is good as it gets" spells, Nil will get probably 2-4 replacements before level 50.  So yes, those master Nil's will be junk.  </P> <P>This won't make us less powerful necessarily, but you will need masters of the new T-5 spells we'll be seeing to get back to where you are now, damage-wise.  So de facto, most warlocks will lose considerable damage power, as I doubt even a full set of adept 3's would get you near to what most warlocks have come to expect using only a few upgraded spells.  Level 40 training spells will  likely be very weak in comparison, and level 30 versions useless.  Say goodbye to BSS/DD, say hello to it's 34, 38, 42, 46 replacements, or better yet, it's 33, 36, 39, 42, 45, 48 replacements.  (How frequently will they need an upgrade to compensate for losing all growth by level?  I'm guessing every 3-4 levels.)</P> <P>This is the way they'll do it folks.  With spells not growing by level, all the lower level (under 44, 45 I'd imagine) versions will be severely weakened, and you'll be required to obtain upgrades on the T5 replacement spells to get close to your previous dps.  Sages will be happy, at least <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P>One effect: I expect the useful lifespan of a master spell will be 1/3 to 1/4 - I doubt they'll up the master drop rate to compensate. </P>

[V4n]

Aralys, I hope you are wrong, but fear you are right. This approach basically knocks everyone down, forcing them to rebuild back to some different "rebalanced" condition. I am worried that in the process they will cause an uproar over perceived nerfage.

[Korpo]

My money is on new spells every seven levels, instead of the 14 levels now. Meaning you'd get xxx Distortion at 23, 30, 37, 44, 51, and 58. Getting a new version of a spell every three levels would be insane, since that would increase the number of spells we have by nearly a factor of five. You'd be getting like four new spells at your level and four new spells at 50%. <div></div>

[maddawg138]

<P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=51" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=51</A><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=26#M26" target=_blank></A></P> <P> </P> <P>theres a link to kalabus' post about the current changes and what he thinks</P> <P> </P> <P>also thanks to kalabus for taking the time to do that...the warlock channel was gettin rough in there gettin the same question asked about every 5 sec</P> <p>Message Edited by maddawg138 on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:57 AM</span>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Interesting overall. Although there are positive there, I am not pleased with the changes to chaotic maelstrom, curse of emptiness and grisly contract etc. So they made bony grasp totally useless now, not even reducing the recast time and making it breakable? 15 sec duration and 45 sec recast. Went from overpowered to useless overnight.

[V4n]

I am worried. Doesn't this look like most of our big damage spells are AoE? I don't know about you, but when I raid most of the time there is "no AoE, mezzing adds". So if my raid utility is nerfed, and without a good root my solo is nerfed, this may be no fun at all...

[maddawg138]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> V4nce wrote:<BR>I am worried. Doesn't this look like most of our big damage spells are AoE? I don't know about you, but when I raid most of the time there is "no AoE, mezzing adds". So if my raid utility is nerfed, and without a good root my solo is nerfed, this may be no fun at all...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you can still use AOE as a regular nuke if its just one mob.....i do that with devastation and other AOE's all the time

[Gnomie]

Casting AE on one mob.... Damage incoming in 10 seconds!!!!!  Haha slow [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ae nukes :O

[Fepp]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gnomie wrote:Casting AE on one mob.... Damage incoming in 10 seconds!!!!!  Haha slow [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ae nukes :O <div></div><hr></blockquote>hehe, and massive power usage <span>:smileysad:</span></span><div></div>

[maddawg138]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gnomie wrote:<BR>Casting AE on one mob.... Damage incoming in 10 seconds!!!!!  Haha slow [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ae nukes :O <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>so what do you cast when waiting on your recast timers...remember that BSS and Nil Distortion are gonna be on the same timer. so theres one less nuke we can use....what will you do in replace of that? sit there and wait for the recast on a nuke...i dont think so. and most of the AE's are 4 sec...just one sec longer than the nukes.

[maddawg138]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fepple wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gnomie wrote:<BR>Casting AE on one mob.... Damage incoming in 10 seconds!!!!!  Haha slow [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ae nukes :O <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>hehe, and massive power usage <SPAN>:smileysad:</SPAN><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>now you will know how the wizzies have felt for so long....we were WAY overpowered and are being brought down a little which i think is good....now mana regen will be a bigger factor for us than before.

[Flachett]

very disheartining, I played a warlock since release (even when we sucked) and stopped playing when the combat changes were announced........ what I see Im not overly impressed with, add to that all the time I spent getting master spells etc which are now rendered useless in a few cases........... that expansion better be something groundbreaking for me to return<p>Message Edited by Flachette1 on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:10 PM</span>

[Lamprey_02]

Does anyone here play WoW? Does Blizzard completely change their system about once a year the way SOE does? If it doesn't, then perhaps the game is worth a shot. It must feel great to be able to play & plan for the long term without always looking over one's shoulder for a nerf. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>In 3 words?</DIV> <DIV>Warlock been screwed with new combat rewamp</DIV> <DIV>Now raids will have 1 tank 6 healers and 17 assasins</DIV>

[Srav]

I am sick...  I knew of most of the changes but not the part of losing some of your adept 3s and or masters....  I will say I have started to play two of my other toons after this news.  I did not pick my class to be a AoE!!! If they change a class this much then there should be a way to let class decide if they want to stay with there class, not be given a new model you did not sign up for.... <div></div>

[KlausFlouride]

Anyone been soloing much with the new changes?  What is your strat for soloing now?

[Fepp]

<span><blockquote><hr>maddawg138 wrote: now mana regen will be a bigger factor for us than before. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Isnt it being capped at an easily attainable 1.5x normal rate?</span><div></div>

[Korpo]

1.5 x your level at 50... 75. I don't think it's going to be easily attainable though, as breeze type spells are getting nerfed to heck as well. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Nah its easy to achieve...</P> <P>Base power regeneration in-comat is 1% of your mana pool which is ~35</P> <P>Prismatic weapon ~12</P> <P>GEBs ~5</P> <P>Everyone have that so everyone will have to begin with 52power/tic to get max 75 you can get BoM (+5) and Elightment (+7) which bring you almost to the cap ~64</P>

[Fepp]

ahhh my bad. Glad as well - not as bad as I'd first thought, still gives a reason to hunt those nice items. <div></div>

[Myzyri]

Not to mention the seriously [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] use of mana. SURE you can use your AE spells on a single mob....and with reduced mana regen you will be OOM very soon. Our dps is gonna be sad. I REALLY wish Sony would realize that even if thsi si a revamp people DO NOT want to see smaller numbers. Make the mob have 200k hit points but do not make our damage appear lessened...which is exactly what theyre doing. Nerf our debuff nerf our single target dps nerf our roots What do we have left thats actually GOOD? <div></div>

[Darkcreat]

<P>you forgot</P> <P>Nerf our stuns.</P> <P>Nerf our parry.</P>

[ThePhoni]

As far as i know they did not nerf our stuns.. they nerfed the hell out of our (all classes) roots.  And also took away our parry skill, and gave us focus in exchange.  So we still take the damage but we have a greater chance of finishing casting the spell.  What we really need is a immunity timer after we are stifled/stuned so that mobs can not back to back stun/stifle us throughout the encounter.  This is something they WILL have to patch after pvp goes live.  I just hope SOE knows that as well.

[Darkcreat]

<DIV>Check out the first page of the Warlock thread <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=51&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=51&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magiocracy has a post that says the 9 seconds stun on Aura of Darkness is being removed.</DIV>

[ThePhoni]

<P>Currently in that thread's orginal post there is no mention of the stun nerf.  Also going though to page 4 where the spells themselves are posted, aura of darkness is not pictured.  So either its still being "balanced" or there is currently no information on that particular spell.  Though check again, just because i could not find a picture of the spell does not mean there is not one posted... somewhere :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P>

[Dae]

Aura of Darkness and Aura of Emptiness have been changed into a spell you cast on the mob and the next three damage spells you hit it with get extra damage tacked on. Adept 1 of Aura of Emptiness looked like it was going to do around 1200-1500 damage total. There are pictures of them somewhere but I can't remember which of the various threads it was in. So yes, our only functional stuns are now going to be the Putrid Cloud line and Flashfreeze line. <div></div>