Any Warlocks wishing they went wizard?

[Hacatta]

<DIV>The title says it all, I like the wizards spells but I also like the warlocks, and right now I am leaning towards the warlock, so just wondering if their is any warlocks out there who wish they went wizard?</DIV>

[Fepp]

Not I. <font size="1">Make a point of correcting people if they call me a "wizzie" (mainly joking - you know).  Generic term should be wizlock.</font> <div></div>

[Sac_jok]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Nope</FONT>

[Deathspell]

<div></div>I think those kind of people already re-rolled their char into a Wizard and be more active in the Wizard section of the forum, don't you think? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Deathspell on <span class=date_text>06-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:07 AM</span>

[Crono1321]

I have both; wizards don't have good dpm and there's plenty more *braindead* wizards than there are warlocks because wizard numbers are so much higher. <div></div>

[Molr]

<DIV>On my server there are way more Wizzies than Warlocks.  This is a dbl win for me rigth now.  I dont like playing a popular toon for one.  And two, our dps is defienetely higher than Wiz's.  Fro some reason people just GO Wiz mostly.  Maybe most people dont know about the dmg, maybe they dont like the idea of poison and disease doing there dmg, maybe the term Wizard is popular because we all grew up as kids knowing what a Wizard was and never heard of a Warlock.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What ever the reason, i love fact that WArlocks arent played as much even when we rule the game in dps.  I have never second guessed my decision to go this path.</DIV>

[yzyh]

<DIV>Curently I know many Wiz that whish they went Warlock.</DIV>

[Det]

<P>Why would i want to be [Removed for Content]? lol <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Detzo (Toxxulia)</P> <P>50Warlock/50Tailor</P>

[Darkka]

I was in a party yesterday with a wizard 2 lvls over me, he was a Kerra (maybe that's it), I'm a wood elf, I was doing way more dmg than he was. I didn't notice when atacking the same creature (but it goes down fast), but i did when attacking 2 creatures of the same type and lvl side-by-side. So I guess a in dps much better to have a warlock. :smileywink:

[Oumana]

<DIV>Just remember, things change.  [Removed for Content] one day, master of the arcane the next....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[SalBlu]

<P>We're not [Removed for Content].  I dont care what anyone else says about our class, but we are FAR FAR FAR from [Removed for Content].  I suppose being the highest consistant single target damage dealer is overshadowed by our inability to hit things in 80% of all the lvl 50+ EPIC raid mobs.</P> <P>Dont believe the hype that many would have you believe about Wizards being gimped.  We're a wholly capable class and have a couple of problems to work out.</P> <P>I love my Wizard and wouldnt trade her for anything.</P>

[SaintJere]

<P>i very much wish i had made a wizard.  VERY MUCH.</P> <P>wizards have evac</P> <P>wizards have MUCH better buffs.  the intesify line is especially strong, and the HP buffs they have also are strong.</P> <P>Wizards get a mez.  not a particularily strong mez but a mez</P> <P>aesthetically wizard things look MUCH MUCH better.  fires and explosion vs. a green gas cloud?  cloak of flames vs. being a frog?  cool looking coatl pet vs having a bat?</P> <P>Wizards have MUCH MUCH better mana regen spells.  and they are a lot more interesting too.</P> <P>multiple wizards in a group are a lot more useful than multiple warlocks due to the dot stacking issue, although both classes get screwed there to some degree.</P> <P>the wizard tether line of roots is good. the paralyzing fear spells are mostly useless.  </P> <P>it looks like soe is going to make warlock superior in aoe damage and wizard superior in Single Target.  you tell me which of those two is more useful?</P> <P>and finally, when i signed up to be a warlock all our spells on both our classes were busted.  it was obvious that they were both going to be fixed so i decided one nuker is as good as another and went with the more evil sounding one.  note that i said nuker.  I DO NOT NOW, NOR WILL I EVER IN THE FUTURE, DESIRE TO PLAY A DOT CLASS.  i signed up to be a pure nuker plain and simple.  i dont care if devastion is better in some peoples opinion.  i dont care if the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing gets out its cheque book and sends me 20 bucks everytime i cast it.  i wanted a big nuke, not a dot.  i played eq1 for ages and i will be damned if i ever get saddled with a useless dot class again.</P> <P>all that said, currently warlocks have higher dps.  maybe 25 to 30 percent higher not counting aoes.  and that 25 to 30 percent at 50.  before that the difference is trivial.  the biggest factor is whether the mob is particularily resistant to poison or the elemental damages.</P> <P>so if you want to have half of your useful pre 50 nukes at 24 and the other half at 37 then warlock is the class for you.</P> <P>if you want to have nearly every spell on your main hotbar be grey and spend the rest of your life cycling between nil distortion and dark distortion the warlock is your class.</P> <P>if you want to watch green gas spead out of your body all the time and occasionaly spread out arround what ever you are attacking then definately take warlock.</P> <P>yt</P> <P>tyrant.</P> <P> </P> <P>BTW the fixed duration root on both classes at 40 is BEYOND BROKEN.  definately most broken spell in game for both parties.  a massively negative influence on the game that allows you to do away with groups, tanks, healers, and basicly anything that is not a wizard or warlock.  all those stories about how some guy soloed something really dumb are entirely based off of those two spells.  if sony fixes nothing else ever then please just fix those two spells, bony grasp and ring of cold!!!!!</P>

[yzyh]

<P>Never listen to Saintjeremy. he is a jalous wizard that come on warlock board every week to do some whinning. He always trow some miss information.  I don't know why he is that stupid but he is. Maybe that he forgot to breath when he was born so he got a lots of death cell in his brain.</P> <P> </P> <P>He suck as bad as my english IMO.</P>

[Darkka]

<P>I'm not saying wizard is bad, I haven't tried it yet so I can't say. However, so far the couple of intances where i have grouped with a wizard with a higher level than me. I have out damage the wizard. :smileywink:</P> <P>But there are always several factors like race, attributes, buffs, and equipment.</P> <P>If you really want a powerful one, go either Dark elf or High elf. And dump lots of money in intelligence equipment. :smileytongue:</P>

[tiki-jiki]

Wizard is a good class. I go out with a similar level wizard all the time. His damage is decent, plus his utility does come in handy. <div></div>

[FilanFyretracker]

i toy with the thought from time to time but if i ever joined a guild that raided from what i hear wizards end up mana pumping the healers.  and well im not gunna pump clerics when i play a DPS class and should be blasting the mob into next week. <div></div>

[Nebulari]

<P>Last night I grouped with two guildies in NEK.  One is a Templar and the other is a Berserker both at level 25.  Now I am not bragging here so let me get that out of the way......</P> <P>We are working on a HQ and started by collecting owl bear meats.  At times we had 8-10 at a time (heroics) from adds.  Also at times we would get large adds of Thex nad Dragoon sentries.</P> <P>Of course the healer drew aggro... My job? Kill it fast and get it off him when that happens.  Blast with suffocating breath (adept III) then slam with Dark Distortion (adept III) hit for an average of >150 points + >500 then finish with ice spike for >220.  Quick, clean, efficient....</P> <P>Then turn to perimeter bears and start picking them off.  My kill ratio over the tank was better than 2:1.  Sure I had to catabloize my health a few times to continue casting but because I am a provisioner too I carry stacks of food and drink so no problems after the battle regenerating it.</P> <P>I group with a wizard a level higher than me to in Nek and I always play the tank if it is he and I LOL.  I just root the mob I pick, he roots his.  I kill mine then finish of his.  I f I draw aggro and start getting beat on ne problem it will die before I do because by the time the root breaks I have it nearly dead anyway.</P> <P>I would not play a wizard ( even though I like them) because I dont want to be anyones Duracell or Eveready.</P>

[ellry]

I played a Wizard in EQ1 and had alot of fun with that character. When I started playing EQ2 figured it was time for a change, so I went with the Warlock. And I haven't looked back since, no regrets here.Rilifane Rallathil

[kesi]

<DIV>Not me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played a wizard for 3 years on the povar server in eqlive and I'm glad that I went warlock. There are so many more wizards than warlocks on my server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyways</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~k</DIV><p>Message Edited by kesica on <span class=date_text>06-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 PM</span>

[Andre]

<DIV>On the other side everyone is welcome in RAID if he is wizzard and RAIDs are End content of this game. Warlocks contraversory are welcome in RAIDs where end mob is not resistent to Poison/desease and gruop had decent Helaer to keep Warlock alive. We draw aggro much frequently as wizzards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So for progression throught lvls Warlock is better but at end Wizzy are better.</DIV>

[SalBlu]

<P>You know... i hear the "Power Pump" deal over and over again... even on these Warlock boards, and I have to say again that I RARELY have to pump power.  My guild raids with an Illusionist and a Coercer.  This is more than enough power regeneration for the entire crew, not to mention power regen from most people like myself with Golden Efreeti Boots or Robe of the Invoker, Ring of Nightbloods, Extraplana Girdle, etc.</P> <P>The last time I had to pump power was in the Drayek 2.0 fight after resurrecting Vox.  The battle went on for a LONG time, and the MT started to get low on power toward the end because of chain taunting.  Two power transfer cycles on him later, and he is up to half power once again and I was free to nuke away, chaining fire nukes. </P> <P>Lol... the only pumping that I do now is to repower myself between nuke sets.  Power consumption on Wizards is higher than Warlocks, so our power pumps come in handy on ourselves as well.  </P> <P>We have a training option later on in our careers that allow us to take a power transfer spell that is a VAST improvement over the one we naturally get in our progression.  The one from our progression will stun us for I believe 14 seconds.  The training option, Rathadran's Fiery Efflux only stuns for 6 and is at Adept II quality.  That 6 second downtime is enough time to let my nukes cycle up again, so I usually cast it on either myself or someone else at the end of a nuke cycle, or every 24 seconds which is tied to the timer.  This, tied with our other transfer spell, i'm able to transfer about 350-400 power.  Not bad, and the only drawback is a 6 second stun.</P> <P>I think alot of people discount Wizards because we are not the highest damage dealers between the Warlocks and Wizards.  To that i'd have to say, There is more usefulness beyond just damage.  People can parse away and complain that my class isnt doing enough damage, but they discount everything else that the Wizard can do.  </P> <P>I guess buffing for about 2000+ fire protection isnt so good.  </P> <P>... transferring 350-400 power every 30 seconds isnt so good.</P> <P>... 3500 single target damage every 45 seconds isnt so good.</P> <P>... +20-30 WIS/INT isnt so good.</P> <P>You see where i'm coming from?</P> <P>Discounting what I as a Wizard is capable of is what alot of Wizards do, and I see that Warlocks believe the same things.  It is very disheartening to see that a majority of people playing Wizards cant stand their own class because of a bit of damage.  In the overall scope of things, Wizards DO mesh very well in a group setting, and barring a damage difference between us and Warlocks, there really is no problem.  We help the group IMMENSELY, and I know that myself and my guildie Garrity, another lvl 50 Wizard would be sorely missed in our raids.</P> <P>I guess all people want to do or know about is damage and DPS.  That's really sad.</P>

[Nebulari]

<P> </P> <P>From my understanding of things there are many game end mobs that are elemental resistant.  Not sure on noxious resistance yet.  I have also thought about rolling a mezzer for end game raids (which are way off for my young guild) for crowd control reasons.  Still researching that class though.</P> <P>I do see the power regeneration here with the coercers and enchanters being present.  I know that warlocks have a spell to that replenishes some power to an ally but not at the mana transfer wizards get.</P> <P>I gues we all have our usefulness.  I think people here get miffed when other classes come here to bash warlock.  The truth be told we are just not a large class in terms of teh number of us there are out there.  Wizzards dominate the filed with membership <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Nebularius on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:52 AM</span>

[FilanFyretracker]

i was a wizard for 5.5 years on Tribunal,  i rode the class for its highs and lows and never gave up.  just kinda sad SOE made wizards the Duracells of EQ2 in the end game.   but then again im kinda the bomber/fighter type of MMOs,  buffing let someone else worry just paint the target and ill deliver the package. <div></div>

[Oneira]

Definitely not.  There are many more wizzes than warlocks for one, although I think the # of warlocks is rising in comparison.  Warlocks are also meaner and nastier, which suits me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But all in all, given all the arguments both classes are fine.  Yes, I know there are more element resists for epic mobs, and maybe at the Raid game that really does matter, but other than that, I don't see me outgunning wizzes by very much and wizzes get some nice utility and buff spell in addition to high dps. . . .so take your pick. <div></div>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SaintJeremy wrote:<BR> <P>i very much wish i had made a wizard.  VERY MUCH.</P> <P>all that said, currently warlocks have higher dps.  maybe 25 to 30 percent higher not counting aoes.  and that 25 to 30 percent at 50.  before that the difference is trivial.  the biggest factor is whether the mob is particularily resistant to poison or the elemental damages.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You hve never grouped with a wizzard before the, at level 50 Wizzards have a slight advantage in DPS, unless tst a group of mobs, from 37 to 49 Warlocks get a 30% DPS increase over Wizzies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And B. Most mobs are not poision resistent if we do on of our debffs get rid of it all. Warlocks should just get about 70-100% of the spell damage or a resisted message. Where are wizzards get  from 0.1% - 100% of the spell damage and rarly a resistent message , Seeing Ice comet hit a mob fr 27 is just painful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This beign said I would guess you are a pre 37 Warlock, wishing you were better, wait a few levels and you will love your class. Or you never upgraded your nukes to Adept 3, do that and you should be happy</DIV><p>Message Edited by Mastire on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:01 AM</span>

[Hacatta]

Now with all this said, if the wizards had, hands down top DPS would you still want to be a warlock. I guess what I'm trying say is, besides a warlock having top DPS is there other spells that made you want to be a warlock?

[SalBlu]

For me, the only real thing that attracts me to the Warlock is the Dark nature of the class.  It just seems more evil, and thats how I always pictured my character... as evil or twisted in some fashion.

[Nebulari]

<DIV>For me it is the Evil nature of the warlock (and I loved the film Warlock BTW) and the idea of poisoning things and using disease to kill.  I get power back from the things I kill too and it is nice.  Kinda of like making the dead creatures soul part of you and taking their essence and using it to continue to carry out your evil work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus:  I never get turned away for a group.  I am the high level warlock right now in our young guild and as such I have been upgrading all my spells to adepts for max damage output.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like wizards I really do but I think that there are so many of them.  I wanted to be different so I have a warlock and a necromancer</DIV>

[Darkka]

<DIV>To tell you the truth I didn't get warlock because of the DPS, I didn't know they were stronger, till I compared it myself while grouping with wizards. I choose it because of the roleplay. A good wood elf, raised by a dark elf and well... :smileytongue: You want to know the rest, look for me in game *giggle*</DIV>

[BaronVonPitviper]

<DIV>My EQ2 character started with all intentions of being a dark elf necro. By the time I had to chose, I realized I didn't want to share all the glory with my pet. (and I read how awesome Dark Distortion was. I knew I had to have that)</DIV>

[Kulpr]

wiz here still hitting myself asking why I didn't choose a warlock. <div></div>

[AtomicPenguin]

I chose warlock for roleplaying reasons, since I wanted my character to choose a darker path to accomplish what she saw as being a greater good. I'm also a wood elf, so I saw it as being a sort of "devastation druid"... destroying enemies with the raw power of nature's disease and poison, harnessing those things as a brutal force to fight her enemies with. I'm happy with it from that standpoint. There's always the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" effect, though. I like some of the things wizards get that we don't. I don't particularly like our fun-type spells (although turning my wife's character into a frog when she wasn't expecting it was a blast). There are times I wished I'd made a wizard instead, until I keep playing and realize that I'm pretty happy with my abilities as they are and how the class plays. I'm an altoholic, though, so I'm always looking at what it's like to play something else. <div></div>

[Hennyo]

Now this is gonna be funny, but when i became a warlock it was simply an accident on my part. I clicked warlock instead of wizard and didnt realize it till like an hour or 2 latter. Now i have been very pleased with the warlock class, im currently a lvl 50, and happy i got this class. Plus i love the dark nature of the class and think its funny that you can pick an evil class in qeynos. Just a little comparison, as a warlock i have NVR grouped with a wizard once that wasnt many lvls higher than me and seen my max power go up one point, have no clue about regen tho. Ive noticed warlocks have a much harder time with hate compared to wizards. In raids as long as im not fighting a poisin resist mob ive noticed im very useful as both a defensive and/or offensive person in the raid. I would also have to say ive personaly nvr been beaten in dps by a wizard once in a group or raid granted im not fighting a highly poisin resits mob. I would have to agree our visuals are quite poor tho, would be nice to see more diveristy on the way things look. Our self power transfer i would say is VERY good but our charater to charater one i would say is kinda lacking tho not useless so no real complaint there. Personaly i think that AoE dots are much much more impressive looking when it comes to the orange numbers you see on your screen than compared to a single large nuke. One bad thing about them is aggro is very scary when casting them as tanks can taunt a single mob ALOT better than they can a group, and having to deal with one mob hatting you instead of multiple mobs is alot easier to deal with when they attack you. I said that to say i see warlocks die ALOT more often than wizards. Im sure theres lots of highlights i missed, each class has its ups and downs, tho im happy that i have a warlock. <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Do warlocks have the best DPS---yes:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Do wizards have good "utilities" comapred to a warlock---no---before you flame me let me explain.:smileysad:</P> <P>If you ever begin a group, I get a warrior subclass to tank, a celric to heal and a sorcerer to damage.  THe MAIN utility and group funstion of a sorcerer is to be a bloddy f***ing tyrant.  Nuking the life out of the mob.  chanters and bards are buff bots.  I play my wizard to do raw damage.  Now, here is what I want for balancing....Wizards to be masters of solo and single target group fighting with secondary AoE.  Also, to ahve a FEW elemental damge proc buffs.  My view of warlocks should be some sort of AoE widespread devastation(disease does devasatate a wide area usually), with secondary single target nukes.  They should have poison/disease damage proc buffs.  THat way, the sorcerers are unique, but still are similar.  As it stands, Warlocks have excellent DD and AoE spells and wizards are an aftethought, though I myself will never re-roll a warlock.</P>

[DwarvesR]

<P>I figure that wizards and warlocks are both "nukers" and that I wanted one.  I didn't really decide which I wanted until it was time to tell the trainer which I wanted for my quest, and then becuz the character is a Dark Elf who shares an apartment with a High Elf ShadowKnight (who does poison and disease damage as an evil class) I decided to go warlock in keeping with the "evil theme" even though it's technically a neutral class.</P> <P>Still only 21, so still new to it, but I'm liking it so far.  It's the 1st mage class I find that I'm actually enjoying.</P> <P>As to whether I would go wizzie or not. . . I really don't know.  I doubt I'll ever roll another mage, so I guess I'll never know either.</P>

[Sirrion77]

<P>I'm no Warlock nor Wizard,</P> <P>I raid a lot and comparing Wizard/Warlock at 50 raid perspective, Wizard has a slight advantage IMHO, why:</P> <P>1) most epic mobs are elemental resist yes, but that means elemental AE, so Wizard is more wanted for his/her resist buffs. Where you need Warlock poison resist buffs for only few encounters.</P> <P>2) mana pump... sorry =) but it help for victory.</P> <P>3) Using DPS parser for months, wizard and warlock do same DPS in average because the warlock need to watch his/her agro.</P> <P>4) wizard don't agro as much as warlock, and MT loosing agro can wipe the raid force.</P> <P> </P> <P>In conclusion, both class rock in raid and are very wanted, no need to fight to know which one is best<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Sirriun</P> <P> </P>

[DresdenMalicaster]

I was a November Warlock. Back in those ancient days, we were not a DPS machine by any stretch of the imagination. Truthfully speaking, I started with the assumption that we would be the DoTers and wizards would be the nukers. Guild had several wizards from the get-go and no warlocks, so it was an easy decision. Now, we are where its at for DPS. Further, by nature of our buffs, we should get even better with the upcoming enhancements from Int. We have superior power buffs (resulting in 300-500 more power than a wizard) and Int buffs (which will impact DPS later). I've been on countless raids and with the resists on IC and the number of multiple mob encounters there are, wizards are still get owned in the damage department. I've seen the numbers. No one is going to convince me that a wizard with equal upgrades and gear will outdamage a warlock who knows what he is doing. I'll be the first to admit that you need to learn aggro management, but this doesn't always have to be at the expense of high amounts of dps. Wizards, however, have superior mana-providing. Their elemental buffs are nice on several raids (although conjurors/wardens often cover those slots as well for other buffs). Further, evac is very useful. <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

Why the Hell should wizards give up and go on their way pacifically because they are mana pumps...people...a farmer bot macro'ing program can do that.  I want to nuke.  NO WIZARD played his character so he could sit passively and pump mana.  "Passive" jobs are for the priests.  Offensive  abilties are for the sorcerer. A warlock is offensive, a wizard is not. A wizard isnt even defensive.  He's just there...

[XBr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hacattack wrote:<BR> <DIV>The title says it all, I like the wizards spells but I also like the warlocks, and right now I am leaning towards the warlock, so just wondering if their is any warlocks out there who wish they went wizard?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You must be joking. All other DPS clases, including Wizzies, have Warlock envy once they have grouped with a competent Warlock. Now, a legitmate worry is that when Sony finally do the combat revamp (currently scheduled for Spring of 2017 lol), a little bad love may come our way.</P> <P> </P>

[Tar~Palantir]

I am jealous when i group with a warlock.  My jealousy however, is not so infitismely deep that I want to see warlocks nerfed into ultra uselessness like my paladin.(whenever i think iof my paladin the song danny boy comes into my head.) I enjoy you guys do 800 damage at lvl 25.  I want to do 700-900 damage too, fightinging side by side with a warlock. He just blasts the enemy will small pox for 800 dmg and I blast him with ice spears and fire balls for 800 damage. I looked to warlock vs wizzie not as a DPS differencem, but as a style difference. ie, if you like the whole disease/poison, go warlock if you want fire and ice, go wizard. The extent of wizard vs warlock rivalry i want is how cool each others fun spells are.  I do not want this hate and jealousy.

[ins4nity11]

<FONT color=#0033ff>People will always argue about whos is better, but I wish, that someone would take the time to make a lvl 50 wizzie, and a 50warlock.  I know it doesnt seem appealing, because very few people want to spend that much time playing, 2 classes that are a lot alike.  However, that person would be able to explain who has better buffs, who is better on raids etc.</FONT>

[N2de]

NO!

[SalBlu]

<DIV><STRONG><EM>You must be joking. All other DPS clases, including Wizzies, have Warlock envy once they have grouped with a competent Warlock. </EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Lol.  I dont have Warlock envy.  I love playing my Wizard, and I duo with and group with a few Warlocks.  I am not envious of the damage output because damage is not the only thing that this game is about, and I find it sad that everyong thinks that that is the end all of arguments.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any Wizard worth their robes will tell you the same thing.  We only have a couple of problems, and to be honest, I think those problems will eventually get ironed out.  High spell costs and a broken Protoflame are the only things I really find that are hurting us.  Everything else is just peachy.</DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><EM>You must be joking. All other DPS clases, including Wizzies, have Warlock envy once they have grouped with a competent Warlock. </EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Lol.  I dont have Warlock envy.  I love playing my Wizard, and I duo with and group with a few Warlocks.  I am not envious of the damage output because damage is not the only thing that this game is about, and I find it sad that everyong thinks that that is the end all of arguments.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any Wizard worth their robes will tell you the same thing.  We only have a couple of problems, and to be honest, I think those problems will eventually get ironed out.  High spell costs and a broken Protoflame are the only things I really find that are hurting us.  Everything else is just peachy.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Now i may eat my words...a 50 wizard content that more than 2/3 of mobs are immune or highly resistant to fire/ice.  Now, i will go stand with the other 99% of wizards that refuse to be simpleton mana pumps.  Chanters have that spell, but they can mezz and a few other small tanks.<BR>

[Dajuuk]

<P>I chose warlock because based off of EQ1 experience I assumed 3 things.   </P> <P>1) The wizard would be the more popular class and conversely by being a warlock I would be more unique.</P> <P>2) The higher level mobs would likely be more fire/ice resistant encounters than poison/disease giving the warlock a slight advantage in the resist department.</P> <P>3) The wizard would be more like the eq1 wizard, the warlock more like the eq1 necro without the pet (dots, lifetaps, fear, etc).</P> <P> </P> <P>As it turns out I was right about the first 2 and completely wrong on the 3rd.   The differance in damage between the two is so negligable that it should not be a consideration in deciding between the two classes.   The are both Nukeing high DPS classes and are both a blast to play.  As many people have already mentioned your best off choosing the class based off of roleplaying considerations or which spell effects you like better.   A competent player from each class in a group where resists are more or less equal will both provide devestating amounts of damage and an impressive combination of +int, +power, and +mana regen buffs.   </P> <P>The warlock class is not more uber than the wizard and vice versa.   Play whichever class makes you happy and be happy playing it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ehlana</P>

[FilanFyretracker]

i cant really peak total DPS,  if i "fire a full spread"  i have yet to group with a tank in RoV that can hold agro.  i find myself using <DIV>Nox bolt more then BSS in most exp groups.  maybe at higher levels its different but at 31 i surely know that one cant really crank the dps.  but what i wouldnt give to have my Concussion pants from EQ1 converted for warlock use [Removed for Content].   but im wondering how long it is till wizards say to hell with pumping and just start DPSing on raids,  i bet if wizards added their DPS rather then pumping the clerics the outcome would be the same because mob would die faster.</DIV><p>Message Edited by FilanFyretracker on <span class=date_text>06-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:13 PM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FilanFyretracker wrote:<BR> i cant really peak total DPS,  if i "fire a full spread"  i have yet to group with a tank in RoV that can hold agro.  i find myself using <DIV>Nox bolt more then BSS in most exp groups.  maybe at higher levels its different but at 31 i surely know that one cant really crank the dps.  but what i wouldnt give to have my Concussion pants from EQ1 converted for warlock use [Removed for Content].   but im wondering how long it is till wizards say to hell with pumping and just start DPSing on raids,  i bet if wizards added their DPS rather then pumping the clerics the outcome would be the same because mob would die faster.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by FilanFyretracker on <SPAN class=date_text>06-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:13 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with the last part of your post.  Wizards would be more effective raiders if they...ooh...DPS like the profession was intended.  THe statement said by an ealier poster that DPS is similar or the same is outright lying.(or comparing a wizard master I with a warlock adept I)

[Crono1321]

<DIV>Ice Comet, Icy Coil. Piercing Icicles, Immolation, Ball of Flames, Ball of fire, Ice Flame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nill Distortion, Dark Distortion, Poison Bolt, Ice Flame</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who has the better line up? hummmmmmmmmm  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard nukes 24/7 and warlock..well we're just waiting for our 18seconds of cooldown to come up!  My wizard friend always stays close to me in dps, and if he beat me I would cry nerf because its all wizards do.</DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

You realzie that half of those spells(especially the DoT's) become obsolete real fast...

[kesi]

<DIV>Not trying to change the topic of the thread, But I really cant understand why wizards post here whining about dps. When the ratio of wizards to warlocks on my server is between 3 or 4 wizards per 1 warlock. You dont see me posting saying wizards have the better root spell. </DIV> <DIV>You dont see my saying anything about ice comet doing 3k plus damage. Nor about me not having a evac spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, try grouping with a warlock sometime and you will see that we have disadvanages too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~kesica</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>unrest/48 warlock</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by kesica on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:14 PM</span>

[SalBlu]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Ice Comet, Icy Coil. Piercing Icicles, Immolation, Ball of Flames, Ball of fire, Ice Flame.</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Nill Distortion, Dark Distortion, Poison Bolt, Ice Flame</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Icy Coil is a debuff/dot that does and initial hit of about 150-200 damage.<BR>Piercing Icicles is a debuff/dot that does an initial hit of about 80-100 damage.<BR></DIV> <DIV>We have these nukes in our lineup at 50:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#99ccff>Ice Comet</FONT>, <FONT color=#9999ff>Immolation</FONT>, <FONT color=#9966ff>Ball of Flames</FONT>, <FONT color=#9933ff>Westfend's Ice Spear</FONT>/<FONT color=#9933ff>Ball of Fire</FONT></EM></STRONG> (same timer), and <FONT color=#cc00ff><STRONG><EM>Ice Flame</EM></STRONG></FONT>.    (<STRONG>5 nukes</STRONG>)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From your list, plus the lvl 50 nuke, you have:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#99ccff>Devastation</FONT>, <FONT color=#9999ff>Nill Distortion</FONT>, <FONT color=#9966ff>Dark Distortion</FONT>, <FONT color=#9933ff>Poison Bolt</FONT>, <FONT color=#cc00ff>Ice Flame</FONT></STRONG>.     (<STRONG>5 nukes</STRONG>)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM>Who has the better line up? hummmmmmmmmm</EM></STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both have the same number of nukes, but different type of damage.  Elemental (fire and ice) vs Noxcious (poison and disease... sorry... i cant remember how to spell noxcious (?)).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway... I dont come here to complain about Wiz spells.  I'm fine with the way we are except for a few power costs and Protoflame.  Mainly, I come to this forum in particular because it is more active than the Wizarding forums.  I like to read what you guys post because alot of what you do is very similar to what we do.</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>As a wizard, power/casting time would be an alternate solution for the DPS disparity. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solution A) Equalized wiz/war DPS, casting time, re-cast, power consumption and fix the peudo-pet we get at lvl 48.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solution B) Reduce the wizard spell power costs, re-cast times, and cast times but keep DPS.  Increase recast, cast, and power consumption for warlocks so that, wizards do 5000 total DPS, but cast for lower DPS per spell, but cast more often, and have warlocks do 5000 DPS BUT cast for more power and more recast/ casting time.</DIV>

[SalBlu]

<P>Tar... you do know that DPS stands for Damage Per Second correct?  There's no possible way anyone could reach 5000 DPS.</P> <P>Nerfing another class to fix your own is not a solution.</P>

[Supernova17]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote:"Passive" jobs are for the priests. <hr></blockquote>Excuse me??? I'm sorry, but when I'm raiding we are not passive! Perhaps you should watch your healers next time you raid or play the healer class to get a better understanding of them. Anyway, DPS wise the Warlock has the edge even against mobs with no elemental resist. A friend of mine plays a 50 Wizard, he's 5th or so richest on the server so one can assume he has all Adept3's like my Warlock does. We go on farm runs in Solusek's Eye fighting a variety of mobs. My DPS is always equal or higher and this is with a 4 level handicap. Pure and simple facts:  Our big nukes > - Ice Comet has a 45 second recast (holy crap eh?) while Nil Distortion has a 18 second recast. Nil D can fire 2.5 times per Ice Comet.   My Warlock can pull an extreme ammout of aggro if I'm not careful. We just have so many fast recasting nukes that we can keep up a constant wave of damage. I'm happy with my class and enjoy the darker nature of being a Wood Elf who walked down the path less traveled and became a Warlock. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:03 PM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>Sal, i know that if someone did 5,000 DPS Jesus and/or God would have to be at the machine.  5,000 merely servers as an arbitrary large number to be used for example purposes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Supernova17 wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR>"Passive" jobs are for the priests.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Excuse me??? I'm sorry, but when I'm raiding we are not passive! Perhaps you should watch your healers next time you raid or play the healer class to get a better understanding of them.<BR><BR>Anyway, DPS wise the Warlock has the edge even against mobs with no elemental resist. A friend of mine plays a 50 Wizard, he's 5th or so richest on the server so one can assume he has all Adept3's like my Warlock does. We go on farm runs in Solusek's Eye fighting a variety of mobs. My DPS is always equal or higher and this is with a 4 level handicap.<BR><BR>Pure and simple facts:<BR> <BR>Our big nukes ><BR>- Ice Comet has a 45 second recast (holy crap eh?) while Nil Distortion has a 18 second recast. Nil D can fire 2.5 times per Ice Comet.<BR> <BR>My Warlock can pull an extreme ammout of aggro if I'm not careful. We just have so many fast recasting nukes that we can keep up a constant wave of damage.<BR><BR>I'm happy with my class and enjoy the darker nature of being a Wood Elf who walked down the path less traveled and became a Warlock.<BR></SPAN> <P>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-16-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:03 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV>I play a templar and raid with him(on occassion) i keep him armed for battle, a mace and buckler with adept nukes, but he is by no means as aggresive as the tank.</DIV>

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>SalBluee wrote:<div> <div><strong><em>Ice Comet, Icy Coil. Piercing Icicles, Immolation, Ball of Flames, Ball of fire, Ice Flame.</em></strong></div> <div><strong><em></em></strong> </div> <div> <div><strong><em>Nill Distortion, Dark Distortion, Poison Bolt, Ice Flame</em></strong></div> <div><strong><em></em></strong> </div> <div>Icy Coil is a debuff/dot that does and initial hit of about 150-200 damage.Piercing Icicles is a debuff/dot that does an initial hit of about 80-100 damage.</div> <div>We have these nukes in our lineup at 50:</div> <div> </div> <div><strong><em><font color="#99ccff">Ice Comet</font>, <font color="#9999ff">Immolation</font>, <font color="#9966ff">Ball of Flames</font>, <font color="#9933ff">Westfend's Ice Spear</font>/<font color="#9933ff">Ball of Fire</font></em></strong> (same timer), and <font color="#cc00ff"><strong><em>Ice Flame</em></strong></font>.    (<strong>5 nukes</strong>)</div> <div> </div> <div>From your list, plus the lvl 50 nuke, you have:</div> <div> </div> <div><strong><font color="#99ccff">Devastation</font>, <font color="#9999ff">Nill Distortion</font>, <font color="#9966ff">Dark Distortion</font>, <font color="#9933ff">Poison Bolt</font>, <font color="#cc00ff">Ice Flame</font></strong>.     (<strong>5 nukes</strong>)</div> <div> </div> <div><strong><em>Who has the better line up? hummmmmmmmmm</em></strong>  </div> <div> </div> <div>Both have the same number of nukes, but different type of damage.  Elemental (fire and ice) vs Noxcious (poison and disease... sorry... i cant remember how to spell noxcious (?)).</div> <div> </div> <div>Anyway... I dont come here to complain about Wiz spells.  I'm fine with the way we are except for a few power costs and Protoflame.  Mainly, I come to this forum in particular because it is more active than the Wizarding forums.  I like to read what you guys post because alot of what you do is very similar to what we do.</div></div></div><hr></blockquote> Devastation is a dot, but fine add it to the list.  I am not saying wizards suck, I love duoing with one or having one in the group, they do the same damage as me and I don't have to worry about our spells cancelling themselves out.  I'm just sick and tired of reading the mage boards and hearing nothing but keyboard commandos who are whining that wizards do not do any damage!  [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] people do you actually try?  Every wizard I group with is doing almost equal-to- equal damage as myself! Noxious.</span><div></div>

[SalBlu]

<P>Ok... then Immolation is a DOT as well.</P> <P>I never come to the Warlock board to complain, and if you have seen any of my posts about the Wiz vs War debate, you'd see that I've done nothing but speak kindness of you all.  </P> <P>The reason for my post was a corrective action to what you felt were nukes, and give you the actual nuke lineup that the Wiz has at lvl 50.  </P> <P>We DO do less damage than you, but I for one could care less.  The only thing about Wiz that I want fixed is Protoflame and EPIC Elemental resists.  Not everyone can be the top damage dealer, and SOMEONE has to be on top.  If it is the War, more power to ya!  That means the Wiz is 2nd grand poobah!</P> <P>So... I think you dont know what i'm all about.  You should go and look at some of my posts, because all I do is defend you guys.  I'm the least of your worries.</P>

[Synd]

<P>Saloma is a warlock in disguise <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>BTW, I love reading your posts.</P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>Why shouldn't Wizards be on top?</DIV>

[silvar]

<P>Not I</P> <P>I love playing my class very much.</P>

[SalBlu]

<DIV> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>Saloma is a warlock in disguise <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>BTW, I love reading your posts.</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>Why thank you Mr.  Syndrome =)</P> <P>/adjusts her Wizard mask </P> <P>lol</P> <P>Anyway... I just duo and quad in a nice group of casters, and I know the capabilities of each class.  I know that my group of 2 Wizards and 2 Warlocks absolutely owns anything in Solusek's Eye when we are perfect in our timing, and we've had no issues with anything in there with the exception of the group x2 mobs toward the bottom.  We cant tank em, or root em, so that means they are off limits.</P> <P>For me, my thinking is that any one person does not need to be perfectly done out.  I solo alot, but I group alot as well.  And you know what?  The classes were built to accomodate each other's specialities, and if you put em all together, you get one mean machine.</P></DIV>

[Sac_jok]

<U></U><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR> <DIV>Why shouldn't Wizards be on top?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>LOL, look at it in one of two ways here:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>It not that Wizards are <STRONG><U>NOT</U></STRONG> on top, it's just that Warlocks <STRONG><U>ARE</U></STRONG> on top for the time being.</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>or</FONT></P> <UL> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Wizards are on <U><STRONG>top</STRONG></U> in DPS of eveyone else.</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Being <U><STRONG>second</STRONG></U> in DPS shouldn't make or break your class or game play experience. Being a damage dealer class that deals less damage than a Mystic should.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>And BTW, you class doesn't do 1/2-1/3 less than our damage, that is a HUGE exageration. Also, your damage already does <STRONG><U>rival</U></STRONG> (not only meaning equal but also to be simialr to as well, which you are) ours...so in that case would you really give up your buffs and Depart now?</FONT></P>

[Sirrion77]

Just for the little story, yesterday doing the froggy zone, we had a wizzy nuke his heart out while the warlock was crying about having to use lvl 12 nuke to land at least something =). Sirriun <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

Sac, you are one of those warlocks that wants nothing better than to just see the status quo. You are ultimately afraid that warlocks will be deposed from the DPS throne.  I'll be glad to see you raise holy hell on the day when the "balance" comes.

[SalBlu]

<FONT color=#ff0000><FONT size=2><STRONG><EM>"Sac, you are one of those warlocks that wants nothing better than to just see the status quo. You are ultimately afraid that warlocks will be deposed from the DPS throne.  I'll be glad to see you raise holy hell on the day when the "balance" comes."</EM></STRONG> </FONT></FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually, he's just telling it like it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other words, why is it so important that we, Wizards, have the top damage?  As I see it, one of us has to have it.  Why not Warlocks?  What is the big threat here?</DIV>

[Sac_jok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR>Sac, you are one of those warlocks that wants nothing better than to just see the status quo. You are ultimately afraid that warlocks will be deposed from the DPS throne.  I'll be glad to see you raise holy hell on the day when the "balance" comes. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P align=left><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>[Removed for Content], I can actually care less about the damage rating or <U>"status quo"</U>...it doesn't make or break my game play or fun factor. If I cast for 90 dps compared to your 100 dps I won't cry about it left and right as I have noticed that you do. First or second largest dps caster in game doesn't matter to me...it is still the top two in game just as we should be, I'd still get a group and I'd still play the game.</FONT></P> <P align=left> </P></DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT size=2><STRONG><EM>"Sac, you are one of those warlocks that wants nothing better than to just see the status quo. You are ultimately afraid that warlocks will be deposed from the DPS throne.  I'll be glad to see you raise holy hell on the day when the "balance" comes."</EM></STRONG> </FONT></FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually, he's just telling it like it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other words, why is it so important that we, Wizards, have the top damage?  As I see it, one of us has to have it.  Why not Warlocks?  What is the big threat here?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Because I am greedy in the name of the wizard class.  I want to see my fellow wizards do the highest damage, even the ones who have been deluded by the colored glasses set on their noses by warlocks. I always want better for my guild, my adventuring subclass, and myself.</DIV>

[Sac_jok]

<DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>"Because I am greedy in the name of the wizard class.  I want to see my fellow wizards do the highest damage, even the ones who have been deluded by the colored glasses set on their noses by warlocks. I always want better for my guild, my adventuring subclass, and myself."</STRONG></FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Why be greedy at all?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>What wrong with being the 2nd highest DPS in the game?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I have yet to hear ANYONE answer this question...the reason is because there is no answer that's why. There is absolutly nothing wrong with throwing out a few less dps than someone who you are supposed to be "Roughly Equivalent" to anyway. Why is there a problem with s 20-30 dps difference anyway?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>If I throw out 100dps and you throw our 50dps then one of two things:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>You ain't doing your job to the fullest potential</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>You had A LOT of resists compared to me</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>And on another note, I'll be glad to see what changes come from the "Balance" maybe people like you will stop whining about things/classes being broken...thats what I hope for the most.</FONT></P>

[Dae]

Yay for class hate. This thread makes me sad. That a person actually sees another class as a threat or even perceives a reason for them to be a threat is ridiculous. What dps throne? You mean the throne that changes hands daily as another person from dps class X claims they can easily out damage anyone of the same level or higher? Or the ones who regularly post how their class has been over-shadowed because of melee weapon upgrades? It's ridiculous. No one can agree who does the most damage. This whole Warlock vs. Wizard thing is ridiculous. I really wish people would just give up on it. Anyway the fact that you openly state you want your class to be the best at everything pretty much invalidates any argument you bring to table because you're an idiot. I myself and I'm sure many other Warlocks don't care to be part of any pecking order. I'm sure you'll take this post as me being another "greedy" Warlock who wants to keep all the awesome damage for himself and quite honestly that makes you unbalanced. I suggest therapy. <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>Daerv, file in line behind my other enemies that demand my attention first. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sac joker said: Why can't i just settle for second place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I won't accept 2nd fiddle, especially when my subclass was meant to be tied for first with warlocks for first place. If i was a bard or chanter, or something crappy I would settle for 5th place. Not when I chose a sorcerer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course Daerv, no warlock wants to lose his precious DPS seat, so they suggest therapy, why? So I can be another deluded fool that cannot see problems.   </DIV>

[Sac_jok]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR> <DIV>Daerv, file in line behind my other enemies that demand my attention first. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sac joker said: Why can't i just settle for second place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I won't accept 2nd fiddle, especially when my subclass was meant to be tied for first with warlocks for first place. If i was a bard or chanter, or something crappy I would settle for 5th place. Not when I chose a sorcerer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course Daerv, no warlock wants to lose his precious DPS seat, so they suggest therapy, why? So I can be another deluded fool that cannot see problems.   </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>First of all Tar~Palantir, we are not supposed to be tied and I wish idiots that can't read would quit imagining that we are. We are supposed to be "<STRONG><EM>ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT</EM></STRONG>" to each other...that does not mean tied, <STRONG>GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. </STRONG>Nowhere did anyone (Moorgard, a Developer, etc.) say we are supposed to be tied...[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] your dumb.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>You choose your job so play it the best you can with what you have. All classes have problems, but you just cry and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and moan about what we have compared to you...<STRONG>GET A CLUE.</STRONG> There are many Wizards out there that play their job without very much complaining and do an EXCELLENT job (there is one in my guild that makes you look like an idiot for all the crying you do, he is the best I have seen so far). Another is SalBluee, she is an excellent example of someone who plays with what has been given. She does admit to having problems with the class, but doesn't cry about it like you...she plays with what is given period and has fun doing it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>And for the people that cry because Warlocks use mana transfer and Evac as utility examples its because they are making a point. The point isn't that your utilities aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it the fact that Wizards have something that we don't. Same as we have something you don't. And NOBODY can contest the fact that you have them, how good they are have noting to do with the point that is usually being made...you can't ask SOE to take them away because they aren't good enough for you or you want more dps (like some people seem to cry about), <STRONG>ASK THEM TO FIX THE SPELLS.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Stop your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] crying about stuff, if you wanna be equal to everyone else playing a game go buy a FPS for PS2 or Xbox and go online with them...you all have the same guns and abilities and you can't cry about nothing. Other than the fact that you might just find out how bad at video games you actually are.</FONT></DIV>

[ChosenHe]

<DIV>Very good <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=178497" target=_blank><SPAN>Sac_joker</SPAN></A> .  Some Wizards have transformed from babies to cry babies to finally idiots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>c-ya</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[chaos overlo]

<P>Tar~Palantir,</P> <P>why don't you just [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and go back in the hole u came from. Nobody cares about ur stupid comments, about ur flamming and about posting a topic which has been discussed for ages. Even in the wizzis forum most of the people started to ignore u because of ur ridicilous posts.</P> <P>I suggest to do the same here in our forum, let him post because we cannot do anything against it, but ignore him. He will sooner or later stop or maybe recognize he was a fool. Maybe not, but who cares? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[yzyh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>I won't accept 2nd fiddle, especially when my subclass was meant to be tied for first with warlocks for first place. If i was a bard or chanter, or something crappy I would settle for 5th place. Not when I chose a sorcerer.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Were in the world you seen that Wizard were supose to have same DPS as Warlock ? That is bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. If you wanted the best DPS class you should went Lock and not Wizard thats all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the best mana transfer spell and the best elemental resistance spell in game it would be unbalance if Wiz and lock would be the same DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you are looking for a role playing point of view.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlock master their studies in the art of Decay. They are trying to find new way to make flsh decaying and to poisoning their enemies. So they focus about dmg, buffing poison/noxiuos resistance and debuffing poison/nox  resistance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While Wizard are the master of the arcane. The arcane magic is not focussing about only doing damage. But about many different kind of power. Elemental dmg, Elemental buff and debuff. Teleportation (the evacuate) , mana transfering, and your Harvest spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also I played a Necromancer to lvl 66 in EQ1 so these dumb [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Wizard that cry about beeing mana battery in EQ2 just anoye me so bad.</DIV>

[Dae]

Posts like the above don't help either... I swear 90% of the people who argue on either side don't have the first clue about what they're talking about. Role playing reasons... my god... Wait for the goddamned combat patch and in the mean time shut the hell up. That goes for both sides. <div></div>

[anshar]

<P>Ok, my fellow Sorcerers. I have been reading and rereading your posts about balance and DPS and fairness, and I have come to several conclusions.</P> <P>1.  We are all selfish.</P> <P>2.  SOE are either overworked, or understaffed or clueless, or twisted or a combination of the aforementioned.</P> <P>3.  No one will ever be happy.</P> <P>4.  The main purpose of the forums is not to spread ideas, as I thought, but to provide personal soapboxes (I know how guilty of this one I am)</P> <P> </P> <P>I propose some solutions:</P> <P>1.  Warlocks: I know you best (being one myself). Let us not respond to the small minority of wizards (and warlocks for that matter) who are inciting this competition.</P> <P>2.  Wizards: Please, remember, it is not the fault of Warlocks that SOE has not provided you balance.</P> <P>3.  Sorcerers: Let us, together, find reasonable ways to balance our subclasses. Let us provide data and work together. I would LOVE to have fully functional and useful Wizards to work with. It would make my time in groups and raids even better.</P> <P>4:  Let us intelligently provide this information. </P> <P>5.  Give SOE some time to complete their 'rebalance'</P> <P>6.  Test and aquire data after the 'rebalance'</P> <P>7.  Compare the issues before the 'rebalance' with those after the 'rebalance'</P> <P>8.  If necessary, compile a new list of data.</P> <P>9.  Most importantly, let us work together. We are the Sorcerers of Fire and Ice, and of Poison and Disease. We are more alike than different. We should be working together rather than in opposition.</P> <P> </P> <P>Trust me, friends, complaining about unfairness will only bring competition. We must seperate emotion to be heard and understood. I stand behind you, Wizards, in your endeavor for improvement. I stand behind you Warlocks in your struggle to maintain your identity. I stand behind you Sorcerers in your journey to reach the pinnacle of your abilities.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anshar</P>

[Hacatta]

Outstanding comment!!! I argee 100%

[SalBlu]

Very good post Anshar.

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Sac Joker, if you are going to insult me in your drivel, atleast do so with proper english.  I believe you wanted to say "you're dumb", not your dumb which turns being dumb into a noun.  </P> <P>First we had the Triumvirate of ROme: Gaius Julius Caesar, Gnaeus Pompieus Magnus, and Marcus Licinius Crassus.</P> <P>Then we had the Three Emperors League: Otto von Bismarck(Kaiser Wilhelm was the actual emperor), Czar Nicolaus II, and Karl I or Austria.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now we have the Three idiots League: Sac Joker, yzyh, and chaos.</P>

[anshar]

<DIV>Though your insult is intelligent and entertaining, it was not necessary. I am sorry if people are insulting one another, but we can only gain cohesion one person at a time. Please try hard and I am sure you can find it in yourself to forgive those that attack you. Perhaps it will show them a better way, and we can get on with making Sorcerers whole again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by anshar on <span class=date_text>06-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:51 PM</span>

[anshar]

<P>Sac_joker...Come on...please don't perpetuate the cycle of verbal abuse...rise above it.</P> <P> </P>

[Tar~Palantir]

Sac joker...You GET A CLUE.  God dammit, warlocks are among the worst people i have ever met.  Has it ever gone through your mind that for one moment that you might be conceivably wrong! Or, has mommy wispered what a perfect little prince you are when she rocks you to sleep assuring you the boogeyman doesn't exist. Grow up please, thenespond.

[Lorka]

IBTL <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[anshar]

<P>Tar-Palantir...I just do not know how you could say such a close-minded thing:</P> <P>'warlocks are among the worst people i have ever met.'</P> <P>That is not only completely offensive to many of us, it is also completely absurd. Please refrain from this type of post. It serves no purpose other than rudeness.</P> <P> </P>

[Tar~Palantir]

It's the truth.  Lets see, the one that insulted myself and the wizard class, the one who was decked in gear and horses from ebay and insulted the horse I earned, also that one insulted myself and wizards.  Arrogance is a trait that runs through the warlocks I meet.

[chaos overlo]

<DIV>YES TAR!! YOU GOT IT! WE ARE EVIL! ALL OF US! SAY IT LOUDER! LET IT ALL HEAR! WE POSSESS MORE POWER THAN YOU WILL EVER HAVE! MUUUHAAAAHAHAA!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, feels good... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Want more? Please go on posting your stupidity right out of your brain maybe it gets cleaner. And thanks for the great history lesson, its sad that you missed your social classes for this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw, I personally find it most insulting that you blame people for their english. I wonder if you are as good in frensh or german as we are in english. You have no idea of what it means to be a global community. I 100% agree with Sac, you're an idiot! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MODS, please close this thread.</DIV><p>Message Edited by chaos overload on <span class=date_text>06-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 AM</span>

[Dae]

I'd suggest the Wizards take a look in their own back yard... <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=12249&jump=true" target=_blank>this thread</a> just made me laugh. At least the majority of Warlocks are polite to one another. That entire thread is Wizards whining about not being able to solo heroic instances and other mobs designed for groups apart from SalBlue who talks sense and gets insulted for it. Classy. Your comment about Warlocks pretty much holds no water. Like people said before the huge revamp is on it's way and in the big scheme of things Warlocks and Wizards are now listed joint top of the list in terms of damage. Wait, see and quit picking fights. <div></div>

[Sac_jok]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>OK, OK, OK....now truth be told Tar's posts make now sense and he just like to post replies to get a response (which I have been happy to give, until now), but we have a bigger problem at hand.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Our roots are getting [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed over and so are we (ALL SORCERERS). All this bickering has been fun, but I have to draw the line somewhere and when SOE starts breaking BOTH of our classes I have a HUGE problem with that. I am not a solo player by nature, but the ability to do so at will is a great option...great for both classes. Now with this HUGE root nerf neither one of us will be able to effectively do so the higher we get in levels.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>It is time for the fighting to STOP and the TRUCE to start. So can we ALL put aside our differences to TRY to get SOE to understand this is stupid.</FONT></DIV>

[SalBlu]

<P>/puts on a joybuzzer and extends her hand in friendship</P> <P>Shake on that Sac =)  I'm innocent I swear!</P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Salbluee is a traitor, disgrace and shame to wizardry.</P> <P> </P> <P>Yes our roots are worthless, we may as well just call it Glorifed Stun Adept I</P>

[chaos overlo]

... and ur just a piece of s h i t, a stupid flamer and troll but at least totally harmless. so whats the point? LOL <p>Message Edited by chaos overload on <span class=date_text>06-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:03 AM</span>

[V4n]

Except for this thread, I am proud of how mature and low-drama most warlock forum postings are compared to other class boards.

[SalBlu]

<DIV> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>"Salbluee is a traitor, disgrace and shame to wizardry."</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>Lol.</P> <P>Ok... lemme say that again... Lol.  </P> <P>Coming from you who has no idea what end game is like, makes false statements about EVERYTHING that a Sorceror/Wizard/Warlock is capable of, comes to the forums and whines about problems without justifying his issues, and slings insults like the above moronic statement.  I'd say you're a Neo-Wizarding-[Removed for Content] with a gumption for vastly overexagerating the truth while playing out his downfalls upon everyone else around him.</P> <P>Go home little boy.  Your mother is calling.</P></DIV>

[anshar]

<P>It is sad...truly sad...Two classes who should be so close are so divided. </P> <P>We grow up just like anyone else, and then after seeing some of the world, we choose the perilous path of mage. We struggle to learn so that we may be more effective. No fighter practices as hard with his weapons as does a mage practice with his or her spells. After much hardship, and trial after trial, we become sorcerers. So defined are our abilities now that we are all known by an odd pseudonym...dps. However...we are not done defining our abilities. In our quests, one portion of the spectrum calls to us more strongly than the other, and we undergo much harship to become warlock or wizard. We are unique among the other mage classes in that we do not care for the trappings of good or evil. We can work together in harmony, without politics hampering our learning. </P> <P>Why then are we so divisive on this?</P> <P> </P>

[chaos overlo]

<P>... Because you're talking about a fairy tale, inhabited with nice and mature people who loves and respect each other. Sorry, I really like your vision but its not real. This forum is real, people in it are real. Nothing more to say. This was not meant as an offence, but be honest do you really expect people to behave the way you told? Maybe in far and distant future but for now lets get back down to earth. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <p>Message Edited by chaos overload on <span class=date_text>06-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 AM</span>

[SalBlu]

<P>It all depends on the person Anshar.  I work with Warlocks day in and day out, so I can appreciate what they do for me.  Personally, I prefer grouping over solo play, so if the person i'm playing with is a good compliment to what i'm doing then that means they are forwarding my ability and fun level.</P> <P>I'm pretty positive about Wizarding as you've seen from my posts on both the Wizard and Warlock forums.  But there are others who feel that they only need to poo on another group of people to get the results they wish for, and the only thought going through their head is, MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!  </P> <P>That's not the way it works.  This game is based upon more than one class, and we are meant to all work together to accomplish mutual goals.  It burns me especially when people cannot see this, and rather than put forth some good information, they'd rather insult me or others around me.</P>

[anshar]

<P>See, Chaos Overload...the problem with your kind of thinking (and I hope you do not take offense) is that it perpetuates the cycle. If everyone says 'someday' then the next generation will say 'someday' also and 'someday' becomes never. However, I will use my one voice, and hopefully it will change the way one person deals with another, and maybe, 'someday' I can have made a difference on a large scale because 'today' I helped one person feel respected.</P> <P> </P>

[Sac_jok]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Awww, come on guys you all are making me feel bad for replying to Tar. Alright I won't respond to anymore of his posts no matter how far off and wrong they <STRONG><U>will</U></STRONG> be.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>But let me say this, we are not self-centered or arrogant we are all just mis-understood. We defend ourselves and our abilities because EVERYONE hates on us no matter what.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Every class compares what they have to what we have...heck I have even seen threads from Scouts asking for our dps or for us to be nerfed down. Yet we don't ask for Increased Agility, Evac, Mez Spells, Pets, Super Defense/Armor, Healing Spells, Range Items (for stat bonus purposes), we don't even ask to be able to melee a mob...we make due with what we have.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Self-defense does not equal Self-centered/arrogant.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>All that being said I will no longer make us look bad and only <STRONG><U>TRY</U></STRONG> to only respond in the best way I can.</FONT> :smileywink:</DIV>

[anshar]

<DIV>Sac_joker, I hope I did not make you feel bad, I just think we can work together better than apart is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Darkka]

<DIV>I like Wizzies, some of them ~giggle~ :smileywink:</DIV>

[Sac_jok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> anshar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sac_joker, I hope I did not make you feel bad, I just think we can work together better than apart is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Nah, I don't really "Feel Bad"...but I don understand that we prolly could help our classes better if we didn't actually blast each other so much. It just makes me sick when EVERYONE else hates on us, then calls us arrogant or self-centered for defending our own class. Everyone compares their class to ours...why? Because we actually work (closer than most classes) to the way SOE designed us to. Now since EVERYONE cries they want to do this BIG combat revamp which will prolly be a BIG nerf the Warlock fest. Now EVERYONE else gets to have what  they want and we get shafted (since combat revamp isn't out yet I am only preparing myself for the worst...just in case it happens).</FONT> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>It just sucks because there are so many Wizzy's that make sense and I would go to bat for anyday to get them fixed, but then there are idiots (that don't have a clue how to REALLY play their class) that make me say to hell with it let them stay broke...they want us nerfed fucck it let them rot in end game hell.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>But in an effort to not be an arsehole I will refrain from replying to the "Bad Wizards" out there...unless they are totally wrong.</FONT></P>

[Darkka]

<P>A couple of Wizzy and Warlock is pretty useful. Been in a couple of parties with a wizzy, and most mobs don't last long. I was applying those spells that make Fire and Cold hit harder (Freeze Whorl and Incineration), and the Wizzy was doing almost same dmg as me. (Lvls 21-24 approx. Around 250-320 dmg). So I don't understand why fight against Wizzies.</P> <P>My spells were Apprentice 2, I don't know the wizzie's spell levels.</P>

[Techneman]

<DIV>i was a little upset at first when i realized the surplus of wizards on my server and the rarity of warlocks.  But then again, being one of the top wizards on the server makes it all that much better.  I had 2 65 wizards on different servers in eq1, and i have no regrets in picking wizard again.  Both wizards and warlocks got screwed over in certain aspects, and there is lots more screwing over to be done im sure, but both classes are fun to play and greatly sought after in exp groups for their uber dps.  The argument between wizards and warlocks gets really old sometimes... instead we should just laugh at the people who picked summoner classes who can't solo half as well as their eq1 counterparts and do craptastic dps compared to us.  :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV>Technemanos 50 wizard of Befallen</DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Yes everyone form a coalition against Tar~Palantir!</P> <P>Yawn, some of you are so deluded(Salbluee, maybe your hair-band is on to tight missie), or just so plain stupid(Sac_Joker) that even if you united, the arguements would be so tupid i would fall out of my chair laughing.  I am almost doing this as I listen to some of your drivel.</P> <P>Sal Bluee=SoE fanboi=everything is perfect=democrat.  Even if you leave out the latter point, I still KNOW that is correct.  </P> <P> </P> <P>I am not your only critic.</P> <P> </P>

[anshar]

Tar-Palantir. You have repeatedly been rude to people who have not attacked you (and a to few that have). You have made insultory comments. You have just been plain mean. However...I do not propose a 'coalition against Tar~Palantir' I propose a coalition against whatever has made you so bitter. I know it is not me. I cannot imagine it is Sal Bluee. It is probably not even those that have been insultory towards you. Unless I miss my guess, it is the feeling that SOE is not taking your concerns seriously. I will make you a challenge. Try to be more civil. Try not to be so aggressive against other players. I feel that if you do this, not only will you have fewer personal attacks, you will have more allies working towards fair and positive changes for the class you feel so strongly about. Before you say that you do not care if anyone helps you, etc...remember, there is strength in numbers. A unified front can only help resolve your issues. If you do not take me up on my challenge, you are merely forcing my (and possibly others') opinion of your motives to change for the worse. Please...help us help you.

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>You want an explanation, fine, let me rationalize it:</P> <P>Root of problem- SoE's idiocy.</P> <P>             Posterboy(example that effects me) of problem: Wizard/Warlock</P> <P>                       What Really annoys me: Those who trumpet how I am a nut/nothing is wrong/ the half truth that just</P> <P>                                                                   resistances need to change/or that wizards have utility.</P> <P>                                                                                   -Salbluee</P> <P>                                                                                   -Anshar</P> <P>                                                                                  -Sac Joker</P> <P>                                                                                  - Others who don't merit me listing all their names.    </P>

[RedDcshnd]

As a 30 warlock, I have been grouping with a wizzy that has pretty much always been 2 levels ahead of me since we were in our early 20's. I have always outdamaged her, usually by around 33% depending on the mob and length of battle. She always seems to run oop a good 30-45 seconds before me, as well. I think there is something wrong with that. Wizzies and Warlocks should be practically equal when it comes to our main function. I have even noticed other classes beginning to take note that warlocks are much better at their job, and are starting to choose warlocks over wizards whenever possible. Luckily for wizards, warlocks are still few and far between. Hopefully with the combat update, we can be back on equal ground... or balanced, as they like to try and call it.

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RedDcshnd wrote:<BR>As a 30 warlock, I have been grouping with a wizzy that has pretty much always been 2 levels ahead of me since we were in our early 20's. I have always outdamaged her, usually by around 33% depending on the mob and length of battle. She always seems to run oop a good 30-45 seconds before me, as well. I think there is something wrong with that. Wizzies and Warlocks should be practically equal when it comes to our main function. I have even noticed other classes beginning to take note that warlocks are much better at their job, and are starting to choose warlocks over wizards whenever possible. Luckily for wizards, warlocks are still few and far between. Hopefully with the combat update, we can be back on equal ground... or balanced, as they like to try and call it. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Finally, a warlock that is not afraid to tell the truth.  Hoorah and 5 stars for you.  Expect to see repercussions from your fellow warlocks though.

[Dae]

We all know nothing is going to change until Sony pull their finger out and release the combat update. Why are we still arguing? <div></div>

[yzyh]

<P>yeah Wizard must have about same dps then Warlock.</P> <P>But then warlock need a few utility spell or something that maintain us betther soloer.</P> <P> </P> <P>If both Wiz/Warlock have same dps I think its fair that Wizard ahve the group tool while we do have the solo ones. Warlock are master of poisoning and decay. I don't think that make us really social character.</P>

[RedDcshnd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> yzyh wrote:<BR> <P>yeah Wizard must have about same dps then Warlock.</P> <P>But then warlock need a few utility spell or something that maintain us betther soloer.</P> <P> </P> <P>If both Wiz/Warlock have same dps I think its fair that Wizard ahve the group tool while we do have the solo ones. Warlock are master of poisoning and decay. I don't think that make us really social character.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suppose I can see where you are coming from, but I hate soloing. I only solo when I absolutely have to. Why pay to play a mmorpg and then not bother to play with others? Anyway, I would prefer it if they treated us about like they did the pally's and shadowknights. Even though we are considered neutral classes and exist in both cities, let the wizards be buff-oriented and have the warlock be more for debuffs. Probably true already, since I'm only 30 and have a lot more game to see, but as it is it feels like I have a little bit of both.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still trying to figure out what all this utility is that wizards have. Mana battery on raids? They can keep that... Evac? That's probably somewhat useful. So boost the wizzies dps up to our levels, and give us something akin to evac, eh?</DIV>

[Atd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RedDcshnd wrote:<BR>As a 30 warlock, I have been grouping with a wizzy that has pretty much always been 2 levels ahead of me since we were in our early 20's. I have always outdamaged her, usually by around 33% depending on the mob and length of battle. She always seems to run oop a good 30-45 seconds before me, as well. I think there is something wrong with that. Wizzies and Warlocks should be practically equal when it comes to our main function. I have even noticed other classes beginning to take note that warlocks are much better at their job, and are starting to choose warlocks over wizards whenever possible. Luckily for wizards, warlocks are still few and far between. Hopefully with the combat update, we can be back on equal ground... or balanced, as they like to try and call it. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Finally, a warlock that is not afraid to tell the truth.  Hoorah and 5 stars for you.  Expect to see repercussions from your fellow warlocks though. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have avoided posting to this thread due to the flames and such but it now looks like our two classes are ready to work together on this and quit the bickering( except for some who keep posting negitive posts)</P> <P><BR>What RedDcshnd has posted here is true and I don't see why there will be repercussions from this statement. What he fails to see is the end game because he's only 30. I have just hit 45 Warlock and started into the end game and I have seen what a lv 50 Wizzy can do. Not just with Ice Comet but how they can help the group in the whole and not just 50 wizzys but the 45+ ones also. I have seen first hand that a wizard is just not on a raid to feed power. Anyone who has taken the time to learn how to play a wizard is true wonder to watch in combat. As it is now until a wizard hits the end game they will not be able to out nuke a warlock.</P> <P>I have said all along that wizards need to be looked at and brought up to speed on dps with the warlock in the lower levels. I have grouped with wizards thru the levels and tried not to make them feel bad because I was doing more damage but try to be positive for them( this is coming out wrong but I suck at words)</P> <P>As others have asked lets use this thread to come together and use it to gather info to help both our classes an quit the petty remarks</P> <P> </P> <P>Chipper Bogglecog 45 Warlock</P> <P> </P>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>In response to the OP:</P> <P>No, I'm happy being a warlock.  Was happy in beta, happy live.  Why?  Because I like the idea of being a warlock as opposed to anything else (including wiz).  Wizards seem a bit cheezy to me -- the norm of just about any fantasy book I've read.  Fire/Ice -- big booms, pretty colors and paper thin.  </P> <P>I've always been drawn more to necromancer type lore ... except well, the big part of it -- having an undead pet.  As a warlock (even though we can be "good or evil") I can roleplay the way I prefer and not have to depend on a pet (or be secondary dps).</P> <P>We aren't perfect, we never have been.  I'd say about 1/2 of the spells I've gotten have never gotten a spot on my hotbar.  </P> <P>I would like to see more story and lore to go with our class, subclass, race and all that.  And I hope the combat/spell revamp will keep us at the top of the dps pyramid (alongside our wizard brothers.)</P> <P>But there's not a day I've ever wished I'd chosen Wizard over Warlock.   </P> <p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>06-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 PM</span>

[Sac_jok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Atdan wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RedDcshnd wrote:<BR>As a 30 warlock, I have been grouping with a wizzy that has pretty much always been 2 levels ahead of me since we were in our early 20's. I have always outdamaged her, usually by around 33% depending on the mob and length of battle. She always seems to run oop a good 30-45 seconds before me, as well. I think there is something wrong with that. Wizzies and Warlocks should be practically equal when it comes to our main function. I have even noticed other classes beginning to take note that warlocks are much better at their job, and are starting to choose warlocks over wizards whenever possible. Luckily for wizards, warlocks are still few and far between. Hopefully with the combat update, we can be back on equal ground... or balanced, as they like to try and call it. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Finally, a warlock that is not afraid to tell the truth.  Hoorah and 5 stars for you.  Expect to see repercussions from your fellow warlocks though. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have avoided posting to this thread due to the flames and such but it now looks like our two classes are ready to work together on this and quit the bickering( except for some who keep posting negitive posts)</P> <P><BR>What RedDcshnd has posted here is true and I don't see why there will be repercussions from this statement. What he fails to see is the end game because he's only 30. I have just hit 45 Warlock and started into the end game and I have seen what a lv 50 Wizzy can do. Not just with Ice Comet but how they can help the group in the whole and not just 50 wizzys but the 45+ ones also. I have seen first hand that a wizard is just not on a raid to feed power. Anyone who has taken the time to learn how to play a wizard is true wonder to watch in combat. As it is now until a wizard hits the end game they will not be able to out nuke a warlock.</P> <P>I have said all along that wizards need to be looked at and brought up to speed on dps with the warlock in the lower levels. I have grouped with wizards thru the levels and tried not to make them feel bad because I was doing more damage but try to be positive for them( this is coming out wrong but I suck at words)</P> <P>As others have asked lets use this thread to come together and use it to gather info to help both our classes an quit the petty remarks</P> <P> </P> <P>Chipper Bogglecog 45 Warlock</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I agree with both of these statements...and I for one have NEVER said that we aren't more Mana Efficient or that I can't outdamage a Wizard. What I have said NUMEROUS times is that Wizards are NOT [Removed for Content] or even half as bad as some Wizards (I am not talking about one person either, there are many) would like us all to believe.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>The problem is comparing. It is still not pointed out ANYWHERE that we are supposed to be "EQUAL"...I have seen "Roughly Equal" mentioned. If some people blasting off at the mouth about "equal this, equal that" or "Wizards are supposed to be the TOP DPS in the game it says so" would take time to check what people have written in the past about this issue (since it isn't new) many of the people that a certain Wizard here continues to blast at have spoken up to help Wizards in better mana costs per spell or better dps at the lower levels.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>We here are not fighting against helping Wizards perform their job functions better we are fighting against a certain Wizards incorrect view points about Warlocks functions in group, Wizards (REAL) function in group and the fact that TOP DPS can go either way. Right now Warlocks have it, tomorrow Wizards could have it...it is not written ANYWHERE who is supposed to be TOP DOG in the yard. It just so happens that Warlocks get their biggest DD at Lv37 and Wizards get theirs at Lv50...but we (warlocks) didn't create the game we just play it...so all this hating on Warlocks about what we have and what we get (basically trying to get us broken) does nothing but make us angry.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>And Tar, you can keep taking childish pot shots by name dropping in your posts it doesn't change the any of the facts at hand: </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Your class isn't [Removed for Content], if you think it is that is your opinion (and you are free to have it) and Warlocks didn't break it...so STOP trying to get ours broken. If you want your class fixed we Warlocks (I believe) will try to help you Wizards in your attempts, but shooting off false facts about us and attempting to break us so that Wizards SEEM fixed or more powerful won't do it.</FONT></P>

[Tar~Palantir]

We're far from being even roughly equal.  Roughly equal BTW is not being outdamaged by a warlock 3 lvls below you, even if when you have adept III's

[kesi]

<DIV>This post is pointless and should be lock just because of all the false and misleading statements being made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(from page 3)</DIV> <DIV>Comparing Ice comet to Devastation? Please! one is a damage over time spell( adept 3 667 1.5 sec duration 6 sec Ae) and the other is a direct damage ( adept 3 3600 plus damage). Oh and yes Devastition does get resisted alot)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyways</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by kesica on <span class=date_text>06-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[Darkka]

<P>Have any Wizzy tried testing it's power with a mob with no Ice or Fire resistance, and see who does more dmg Wizzy or Warly?</P> <P>And for those discontent Wizzys, why not make a warly and end your suffering? You want to be powerful, do a Warly; Want to see beautiful colors be a Wizzy.</P> <P>At least I can say that some Wizzys are happy with their abilities regardless of their weaknesses. The discontent wizzys should see that Warlys have weaknesses too. But they are so close minded that they don't see them.</P> <P>In the end, every profession will depend on one another to cover it's weaknesses. :smileywink:</P>

[Faarwolf]

<DIV>Tar~Palantir, you may express your opinions but leave out the excessive namecalling.</DIV>

[Fepp]

<img src="http://bbc.quist.ca/bb/images/smiles/deadhorse.gif"><div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>What an absolutely absurd post.  As I go back through the logs, Wolfie should be reprimanding Warlocks, not me.  </P> <P>Hats off to Sony, their reps, and their single digit IQ's!</P>

[Eris]

<DIV>Tal why dont you just shut up. Youve been trying to make your point and failed so now, just because you feeling frustrated, you feel you have to keep going on the trolling side. Please, make everyone a favor and crawl back to the hole you came from.</DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Please, go back in your hole.</P> <P>The threads changed to an all out attack on me, so, i defended myself.  You failed to see that logic, goodbye child.</P> <P> </P>

[anshar]

Tar~Palantir, there have been some attacks on you, and while I do not agree with the attacks, you have, through your overly aggressive stance, brought them on yourself. While I expect people to be more mature, and not stoop to certain levels, that is not a warrant for you to continue to harrass people in an attempt to see how far you can push them. It was told to me long ago (and only more recently do I see the wisdom in it): 'If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.' Well, I am to the point that I believe you are having too much difficulty knowing how to say something nice. It is getting to the point that many of us will begin to doubt your intentions. Do you really want your class repaired? Or do you merely want someone to attack. If you are wanting your class repaired, talk to us with the respect you would give an ally, and in us, you will find that ally. If you are merely looking for a fight...well, go somewhere else. I am certain you can find someone of the appropriate age and disposition.

[chaos overlo]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=6><STRONG>Mods, plz for gods sake, close this stupid thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>

[Eris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR> <P>The threads changed to an all out attack on me, so, i defended myself.  You failed to see that logic, goodbye child.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And of course you are nothing but the poor victim of the Warlock conspiracy? The fact that it moved to an all out attack against you has nothing at all to do with the fact that you tried to make your point through name calling and just flat out refuse debate?</P> <P>Btw, level your wizard some before coming and complain here. As a level 34 wiz, you have yet to see much of your class. And if it pisses you that much, change class, reroll. You'll probably end less frustrated and leave us in peace.</P> <P>Btw, if you wonder where i got youre a 34 wiz, take a look at that thread and check the date of post <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=114&message.id=9404&query.id=0#M9404" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=114&message.id=9404&query.id=0#M9404</A></P> <P>Oh and yes, beofre you get to it, i do love to "argue like a democrat", as you say time and time again.<BR></P>

[Yezmak Dakari]

In my experince warlocks out damage wizards. i was a 27 warlock grouping with a 32 wizard and my app4 dark distortion was outdamaging all of what he was able to put out, and aso outr level 30 training option rocks, as an upgrade to dark disortion that is able to deal in the thousands with power AND health return

[Eris]

<DIV>The statement about dealing in the thousand with BSS is plain wrong. At 30, DD adept3 still deals more damage than BSS and nowhere 1k damage. As for DD, i do agree its doing insane amount of damage. However, from grouping with wizards on regular group, the DPS is not that different. On raids, thats another matter altogether and im pretty sure that will soon see higly resistant mobs to poison/disease making wizards making the balance right again.</DIV> <DIV>Im just pretty much fed up with the attitude of this guy coming whinning and then playing the offended act because everyone tells him to get back home and shut up.</DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> chaos overload wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=6><STRONG>Mods, plz for gods sake, close this stupid thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</STRONG></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am beginning to agree.

[Dae]

Yadda yadda yadda. I keep seeing you post over and over about how you don't want to be a glorified mana pump with dps on the side. You aren't even close to be being raiding level, which is when the problems appear to start. Try just playing your class for a change instead of spending your entire time on these boards starting fights and trying to be a martyr. I repeat in case you missed it the first time: Nothing significant is going change in the dps hierarchy before the combat patch. It would be pointless. There is also no point in your continual whines and attacks on the Warlock community that you perceive to threaten you. You aren't achieving anything other than making yourself look silly and your class look bad. Anyway. Feel free to keep playing the victim if it makes you happy. <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

Do you have a crystal ball?

[Dae]

Why would I need one? It would make no sense whatsoever to make any significant changes whatsoever when you have a reworking of the entire system in the process of being written as well as being a total waste of manpower. It would give people a potentially false idea of what to expect with the final changes, not to mention potentially introducing yet more balance issues for people like you to whine about. I'm still curious how you can actually have a personal problem with your class when you seem to have such trouble levelling to point where the issues are present. Drop the vendetta. It's pointless. <div></div>

[Faarwolf]

<DIV>tsk tsk.</DIV>