Torment of shadows

[tennj]

<DIV>Despite what some people say, I love this spell.  The long cast time, which is usually viewed as a negative aspect, I use to give the tank a few more seconds to get a firm grip on agro.  I've also noticed that it seems to last a long time.  The one problem I have with this spell is that there is no icon in the maintained spells window.  It is almost impossible to tell exactly when this spell has worn off.  The last update gave us an icon for BSS which is cool, now can we please have one for this spell?  It really does help and it can't be that hard to put in the game.  So how about it devs?  You can't seem to figure out that "soul flay" does less damage than the spell it replaces.  Fair enough, you're busy with the combat revamp.  How about just throwing an icon for this dot in the game....please ?  </DIV>

[Ranvi]

<DIV>I like the spell too</DIV>

[Panad]

Also like the spell, nice added damage, do it when fighting harder mobs, especially when soloing harder mobs, speeds things up a bit, only problem for me is the long casting time, that's 4 seconds off Bony Grasp. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[tennj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Panador wrote:<BR>Also like the spell, nice added damage, do it when fighting harder mobs, especially when soloing harder mobs, speeds things up a bit, only problem for me is the long casting time, that's 4 seconds off Bony Grasp. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>But see, that's why it has such a long range as well.  You hit this first, from a nice distance away, using it to pull, then stun and cast BG while it's stunned.  Then proceed to de-buff and nuke, all the while, this dot tics away.  The icon would help on longer fights and raids where you cast this two or more times.

[Panad]

Ah, didn't know about the range, never used it to pull, my usual routine for harder mobs is: Frozen Manacles, Bony Grasp, Debuffs+Dots, HO, re-cast BG because timer should be down to about 10-13 secs by then, by which it usually breaks. I cast Frozen Manacles before BG in case there's a Resist I can still stun - well, can't because I can't insta-stun mobs higher than lvl 48...  - stupid Deter - and then cast BG - kinda fail-safe system. <div></div>

[Kalel]

<DIV>The master version of this spell does a bit over 1100 Dmg total over time. If you keep this up during a raid with the mob fully debuffed thats awesome added dmg. </DIV>

[Ingra]

<FONT color=#999966>I always pull with Torment of Shadows.  It has a very long range and does a decent amount of damage.  I also love to use this when the tank has run off to pull something from a distance away.  Once he has the mob and is running it back I'll cast Torment of Shadows and Dark Eminations.  This gives the tank time to get a good hold on the mob while they're taking damage from me.  I cast the Dark Eminations because it's added damage AND because it has an icon to tell me when it has worn off so I know to cast Torment of Shadows again.  I usually debuff after casting these two and then start all over again! </FONT>

[xabaras]

Only thing i dont understand (at least watching adept3 screenshot in this forum) is why Adept3 is doing more initial dd and less dmg/tick while it is listed as a dot (compared to adept1)...<p>Message Edited by xabaras77 on <span class=date_text>06-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:45 PM</span>

[maddawg138]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xabaras77 wrote:<BR> Only thing i dont understand (at least watching adept3 screenshot in this forum) is why Adept3 is doing more initial dd and less dmg/tick while it is listed as a dot (compared to adept1)... <P>Message Edited by xabaras77 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:45 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>the adept 3 from looking in my logs does an average 146 a tick....i dunno exactly what the description says but this is raw data from my logs.</DIV><p>Message Edited by maddawg138 on <span class=date_text>06-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:10 AM</span>

[xabaras]

<P>Spells say:</P> <P>- Inflict 124 damage on target</P> <P>- Inflict 72 damage on target</P> <P>- Decrease health of target by 108 every 4 seconds</P> <P> </P> <P>That's what it is written on adept 3, while adept 1 has less dd and more dot as damage.</P>

[Tanatus]

<P>Waste of spell slot imo and here is a reason</P> <P>Its slow casting, it power costly ... In a 4.0s sec that take to cast this spell you can nuke twice.... And what you expect to have from this spell? wimpy ~1000 damage over 24second which is around 40DPS. You can get higher DPS even chain nuking with Dark Pyre (2s cast 4s recast 350-550 at M1). ToS dont do anything special to the mob - no resist debuff or stifle or power drain... so where zero reason to use this spell at all</P> <P> </P>

[CrimsonAveng]

<DIV> <P>Waste of spell slot imo and here is a reason</P> <P>Its slow casting, it power costly ... In a 4.0s sec that take to cast this spell you can nuke twice.... And what you expect to have from this spell? wimpy ~1000 damage over 24second which is around 40DPS. You can get higher DPS even chain nuking with Dark Pyre (2s cast 4s recast 350-550 at M1). ToS dont do anything special to the mob - no resist debuff or stifle or power drain... so where zero reason to use this spell at all</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>I think you are missing the points given here.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>1. Before a battle starts time means nothing, so a 2.0s and a 4.0s still start the battle the same realitively speaking.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>2. It has a long range so it takes longer for the mob to get to you so you have more time to manacles, fear, or grasp the mob.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>3. It is a DOT so in a party situation it creates low hate towards you. IMO anything that causes good and damage and creates low hate at the beginning of a battle is a good thing.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>4. You don't have to use it. Personally, I use it to start almost every solo battle that I initiate (if I get jumped it doesnt get used) and at the beginning of every party fight.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P></DIV>

[seudai]

Stacking this with Chaotic Maelstorm w/ includes debuff is a good way to start a harder fight with a ^^ mob or a raid while the tank builds hate.  I have adp III in both so your looking at what close 2k dmg before you even start nuking? <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>ToS isn't longest range spells - ND is why not pull with ND? Traditionally (and EQ2 not an exception) DoTs generate a lot more agro then DD due to coding. Second problem with ToS is relatively high resistance...</DIV> <DIV>From my personal exp easiest to hit target is Nox Bolt, then I was lvl 45 warlock that was the ONLY spell that was landing on lvl 54 mobs with more or less good score. BSS tend to hit targets very well. And of course best spell that always hit target prodided target less then 10 lvl above you is IceFlames</DIV> <DIV>If I feel like I can pull with damage spell w/o risk I always use ND for simple reason it have long recast timer and once I finish rooting/debuffing timer might be up again. If I dont trust tank can hild agro vs. my nukage I simply use Bonny on the pull and then nuke till my heart content w/o slightest risk of retaliation</DIV> <DIV>P.S. What 2K damage you talking about? by mark 24s mob will long dead so dots unless its raid target never work on full... Basically my preferable way of starting combat - Nihilism on all melee (-1000 nox), As soon as mob within casting range CM as soon as casting keyes refreshes - CoE and HO starts with ND, BSS, Dark Pyre (during casting DP timer on HO refresh) HO Nox Bolt BSS, if by some reason I got agro - TNN and ND to finish mob off if mob still have to many HP left - Bony grasp</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tanatus on <span class=date_text>06-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:39 PM</span>

[Kalel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>ToS isn't longest range spells - ND is why not pull with ND? <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Have you tryed both at range? ToS has a way longer range.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Traditionally (and EQ2 not an exception) DoTs generate a lot more agro then DD due to coding. <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Dmg is the only hate generator for us.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Second problem with ToS is relatively high resistance...</DIV> <DIV>From my personal exp easiest to hit target is Nox Bolt, then I was lvl 45 warlock that was the ONLY spell that was landing on lvl 54 mobs with more or less good score. BSS tend to hit targets very well. And of course best spell that always hit target prodided target less then 10 lvl above you is IceFlames</DIV> <DIV>If I feel like I can pull with damage spell w/o risk I always use ND for simple reason it have long recast timer and once I finish rooting/debuffing timer might be up again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I dont trust tank can hild agro vs. my nukage I simply use Bonny on the pull and then nuke till my heart content w/o slightest risk of retaliation - <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>What if you dont kill the mob in less than 36 Secs? You WILL have agro when BG drops and then chances are your a crispy critter.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. What 2K damage you talking about? by mark 24s mob will long dead so dots unless its raid target never work on full... Basically my preferable way of starting combat - Nihilism on all melee (-1000 nox), As soon as mob within casting range CM as soon as casting keyes refreshes - CoE and HO starts with ND, BSS, Dark Pyre (during casting DP timer on HO refresh) HO Nox Bolt BSS, if by some reason I got agro - TNN and ND to finish mob off if mob still have to many HP left - Bony grasp</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tanatus on <SPAN class=date_text>06-10-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:39 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Point is ToS is awesome to start battle with whether it be a raid mob or a XP mob. Start with CM and CoD. Then drop ToS so the tank has sufficient agro for you to not peel in one Devastation/ND rotation. If your not using this your simply not doing as much dmg as you can be. A Fully debuffed raid mob and my ToS m1 ticks 181. for 24 secs. 4 secs isnt unreasonable for the amt of time it ticks. <BR>

[kesi]

<DIV>I actually like this spell alot. I mainly cast it first because it has long range and its a dot. Than I will debuff and start casting my direct damage spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>I have tested both ToS and ND ... ND have longer or even pulling range. Other reason NOT to pull with ToS is fact that is DOT... If I have resist on stun I have enouth time to cast FM usually not enouth to cast BG... If you have active dot FM aren't relaible root. So for solo you can use ToS only after you land BG... And if you do it that way you wasting your time 4.0s hell long time.</DIV> <DIV>In groups ... I yet to see any mobs that I cannt tank lasted longer then 36s. The ONLY encounter that lasts longer is large packs and frankly tanking no arrow up mobs never been a problem. Second thing you are missing TNN ....BG+TNN = 46.7s but if you truely want to be on a safe side you can use FM on top of TNN... That will give you more then enouth time to refresh BG</DIV> <DIV>About agro let me explain a little bit thing with DoTs... Have you ever compare agro from ND and BSS? which one [Removed for Content] mob more? Ever wonder why BSS do twice less damage and cause twice more agro? Yep a little dot part at the end [Removed for Content] mob off. Let go deeper. Ever wonder why Neg Abs and Dev dont cause a lot agro but Nul and Nil Abs do? - yep same reason small dot part attached to spell. For some reason dot agro >>>> dd agro in every single SOE game (trust me I have played necro in EQ1 since release and know what I am talking about <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) In EQ2 for spells casters agro goes like that  skill reducing spells>>stats reducing>=stifle>>power drain>=dot>stun>direct damage>AE damage</DIV>

[Kalel]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Ever wonder why Neg Abs and Dev dont cause a lot agro but Nul and Nil Abs do?</STRONG></FONT> - yep same reason small dot part attached to spell. For some reason dot agro >>>> dd agro in every single SOE game (trust me I have played necro in EQ1 since release and know what I am talking about <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>By Dev I can only assume you mean Devastation. Im convinced you arent a lvl 50 Warlock or you would know that Devastation is the single biggest ticking DoT in the game. Every one of those spells you listed there are all DoT's. </P> <DIV><BR>ND does NOT have the same range as ToS. Trust me on this. ToS is by far the longest range nuke Warlocks have. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On your comment about DoT's gaining more agro just for the fact that they are DoT's. Do you actually test this stuff or are you just guessing from previous eq1 experience? I can guarantee you get more agro from Nil Distortion then BSS no matter what you think. Dmg = agro. Period. </DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>Yep my mistake - ToS indeed have longest range - tested it on some open space ... Still its dot...</DIV> <DIV>Devastration is NOT dot per se <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> its "Rain" attack. DoT in EQ2 is something that least at least 18-24s, devastration last 6.0s...</DIV> <DIV>Let me elaborate a little bit about dots why cause so much agro (that was a way in EQ1) - each tic mob get agro like it been hit by nuke with damage equal of total damage of dot... plus of course fact that debuffs cause extra argo too</DIV> <DIV>Btw my warlock lvl 48 not 50 so personally I haven't played yet with Dev</DIV>