Classbalance tuning? Agromagnet

[1si]

<DIV>Hiya!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I recently encountered significant change in the agro I made with my warlock. My pally mate could hold almost any agro, regardless what I did.</DIV> <DIV>Now I get agro - and die - very often.</DIV> <DIV>Did someone else encounter this, or it is just me? Any best practices to avoid agro?</DIV> <DIV>I tried to keep my dps low, but didn't work. I got beaten up by mobs I didn't even touch. And I don't like the idea, to keep my dps low. Why am I in a group, if I can't nuke without dying???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thnx.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arnyjaro - lvl 34 warlock</DIV>

[fed]

I've had a few problems with aggro on raids recently. Suddenly I seem to get aggro easier with the same setup I've always used. Personally I wrote it off to the 5+ adept3 spells I accuired in the last 2 weeks, but perhaps there's more to it...

[Deathspell]

It works from both sides, you and the tank. I quite always play with the same 2 tanks, I got aggro all the time during the beginning days. Now, they know they have to do more then just "melée" the mob to death. Don't hold back you nukes, but nuke smart. - Do not start with a nuke, let the tank get aggro for 10 seconds. Use debuffs or DoT. - Let the tank start and finish the first HO. - Do not start and finish an HO two times in rapid succession. - Throw in a nuke and wait 2-3seconds, do not nuke continously. - Pay attention to what the tank does, it's safe to nuke after they did a big damage spell, but not if he's on melée. - Maybe less relevant, but stand behind the mob and keep a decent distance from the encounter. <div></div>

[1si]

<P>Thnx for the info!</P> <P>However: I always start with 2 debuffs, and not with a nuke. Lately I reduced my dps to 60% or so, and still get aggro much more than before (I used to get aggro virtually never, now I end up tanking 8 of 10 fights). I just can't imagine what my little [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] will have to live thru on lvl 37 if I get ND...</P> <P>Arnyjaro</P>

[Sensi]

<P>Your post made me wonder, it seems like recently i've had to be more careful with my nukes to avoid aggro. I'm not sure though, I think a lot of it comes down to the tank and the way they play. I've never played a tank class myself but I notice the difference between tanks who use HO's and those who don't - if the tank completes an HO like Sky Cleave its much harder to seize the aggro. Another giveaway is their power bar, I've noticed a tank who uses up most of their power in anencounter holds aggro much better than one who doesn't. Unfortunately its difficult to get more info about this, most tank's reaction is "your over-nuking" rather than the possibility that they're under-taunting - and its difficult to tell another class how they should play.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sensine</P> <P>Level 44 Warlock</P> <P>Innothule</P>

[V4n]

Last night in EF I was in a group where someone was running a parser, so of course I wanted to do max DPS.  (Guardian, Necro, Conjuror, Assasin, Templar, Warlock, all about level 44). So long as I started with a couple debuff/dots, I could nuke full bore and not grab aggro (readily doing the most damage).  On the occasional solo mob, I would just lead in with Nil Distortion and *always* get aggro (but the mob would die so fast as to not matter). So I believe the secret is two-fold: 1) Have a good tank that knows how to hold aggro 2) Don't DD nuke until after you are sure MT has gotten a taunt in Whoever gets aggro *first* is far and away the highest on the aggro list.  So timing is very important.

[Sac_jok]

<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I've found that some tank just don't taunt as often as they should...up to my measly 32nd level I have had ONE tank that I didn't peel aggro from...just ONE. He had ALL Taunts at Adept 3 and used them as often as possible, plus still using his HO's and using his high damage CA's.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>While the other tanks I have played with (that were put on my do not group with list) I noticed:</FONT></P> <UL> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>They didn't taunt often, if any at all...some not even on pull.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>They didn't do HO's even after my asking him to do HO's to reduce my aggro.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>They admitted (which was funny BTW) that they only have App2 taunts, they can't afford anything else...I mean come on money is not that hard to come by in this game. Only one guy had an Adept 1 Taunt...which still can't keep aggro.</FONT></LI> <LI><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>They were actually scared to be the first to die...OMG, that is what the tank does if things go bad they die first.</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>The thing that some tanks lucky enough to get to 30 don't realize or don't care that App 2 Taunt (Tank) + Adept 3 Nukes (Warlock) = Dead Warlock, not Dead Mob. I have began playing with only a select few tanks and when I do play with them I usually only play with them based on a recommendation from other people I have played with that are as picky as I am about my tank.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Maybe this will help and maybe it won't, but I don't think its a "Tuning" issue...I think it's a player issue...some Tanks need to learn how to be better Tanks especially as we get higher into levels.</FONT></P>

[SilentSam]

<P>My main is a 42 Warlock so I'm used to peeling aggro of guys.  That being said, I also have an alt who is a low level tank that I play sporadically....I think he's a 21 bruiser right now.  Now a bruiser isn't really supposed to be the 'pure tank' class so if I join groups with a guardian or zerker, of course they become the MT while I'm the backup.  BUT...so often I see many of these lower level pure tanks losing aggro that I end up pulling the aggro off their sloppiness and become the MT inadvertently.</P> <P>It does seem that many tanks (that I've grouped with anyway) are more concerned with 'how much damage they do' rather than concentrating on their taunts.  Some of these other tanks I grouped with only had App 1 and App 2 taunts...but of course their big damaging attacks were all at Adept 1.  </P> <P>For my bruiser I took a level 10 Training choice that is a group taunt....it seems with that alone I can peel the agro off a lot of these other pure tanks that I'm grouping with.</P> <P>Often it seems that some tanks know that they can do good damage so they are more interested in that rather than concentrating on what their primary role is supposed to be.</P> <P>Obviously this doesnt apply to all tanks, cause there are many out there that are awesome at their jobs.  Plus I've noticed that in  the higher levels, most tanks realize where thier role is and become much better at it.  I just think many 'new' tanks don't realize what their real job is.  :smileyindifferent:</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by SilentSam on <SPAN class=date_text>05-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:24 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by SilentSam on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[Korpo]

<P>I play a 49 paladin and a 39 warlock, so here's my take:</P> <P>With my pally, I can hold agro in <STRONG>almost</STRONG> any group, even a wizard or warlock going full bore with his nukes. The exception being a caster that uses a lot of group nukes. Tanks don't have very many group taunts or attacks that generate hate from the whole group. The group taunts and attacks we get are on like 30 second timers. So if we're killing a bunch of goblins or something, and I lead off with a nuke then a group taunt, then a warlock throws Devastation, he's probably going to die. That group nuke just generated way more agro than I can possibly build up in that time, and my group taunt won't be up for 30 seconds. If it's just one mob, I can nuke, taunt, group taunt, stun, everything that one and no problem. So if you're getting agro on groups of mobs, lay off the group nukes a bit and see if that helps. It goes without saying that if you're doing groups, but staying on one at a time, make sure you're on the same mob as the tank.</P> <P>With my warlock, against a ^^ I just throw both my debuff curses, Dispell Arcane, Frozen Whorl, Steal Breath, and Dark Emanations, then sit there for a few seconds. Then I throw a medium nuke, like Noxious Bolt, re-up the dots, and hope the mob is about half dead by then. Then I lay into the real nukes, chain casting them until the mob is dead. Very occasionally I'll pull agro at the very end, but the mob dies on my feet. Against a group of normal mobs, I'll throw some big nukes at the first one, since they die too fast to worry about curses. It'll usually come for me, but it's dead before it gets there anyway. This also lets the tank build agro on the others mobs in the group, so next is usually Nul Absolution. Then just nuke as the mobs die and the tank switches targets, by this time the mobs pretty much die in one nuke.</P>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>At lvl 34 its a bit tricky but once you hit mark 40 holding agro is NOT an issue ever ...</DIV> <DIV>a) Dont hesistate to use stuns, a lot of em...</DIV> <DIV>b) once you get BG - start heavy attack from it - BG and nuke away - I yet to see mob that last longer 30s....</DIV>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>At lvl 34 its a bit tricky but once you hit mark 40 holding agro is NOT an issue ever ...</DIV> <DIV>a) Dont hesistate to use stuns, a lot of em...</DIV> <DIV>b) once you get BG - start heavy attack from it - BG and nuke away - I yet to see mob that last longer 30s....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Great strategy if you're getting aggro and you have the room to cast BG; debuff and dot the mob, maybe a nuke or 2, BG, then chain nuke until dead. <p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 PM</span>

[DresdenMalicaster]

I die. a lot. I accept this as partly me being overzealous and partly me being armed with the best dps weapon in the game. I always start with the debuff, then a DoT, but what people don't realize is that there seems to be aggro reduction over time. So, even if you wait 3minutes versus 10 seconds, a monsterous serious of hits can still pull off of a raid mob. Recently, at a CL epic instance raid, I was assigned to the group designated to root one of the guardians while slughtering the acolyte. We did this successfully, then went over and helped the group assigned to the astrologist help defeat their guardian. Now, during this entire time, the MT of the raid was building some serious aggro on the King. After defeating all of the assistants, we sprint over to the King. First thing I do is make sure the healers are all well-powered. I start my debuffing series with Curse of Darkness, Chaotic Maelstrom, Dark Nebula, Cuse of Nil and Dark Pillaging. Then I open up with Ice Flame, Heneva's, Bellanger's, Nil Distortion and Devestation. I again check mana and throw in a Nebula for a quick stun.... When the King gets to 20%, I decide that I've held back long enough, throw my final series of debuffs at him and really let him have it with nuke spamming. I'll be damned if at 7% I didn't pull aggro and get dropped. The raid force laughed heartily being that I was the only one to die. So, this story taught me a few lessons. Even if a good tank with upgraded taunts, buffs, etc has several minutes to "build" aggro, maybe he isn't really building aggro for a whole battle, but rather for a short period of time. Also, there is a lot of aggro beyond our dps, our debuffs and the mana-taps (and health taps of Bellanger's) also have extra aggro associated with them. In the end, I'm going to wait till this immending tank "fix" to see where things stand afterward. I'm worried about how the likely cuts in tank dps will further hinder our dps abilities. Its an unfortunate thing when a class feels so constrained by their aggro management that they are afraid that any few nukes in successon is instant death. <div></div>

[Tanatus]

<P>Milk not this way .....</P> <P>you can BG right on pull - 36 long time its enouth to take down group 2 ++ and 1 + mob (typical layout of pack in Nek Castle Return)... Alternatively nuke away with maximum speed untill you get agro then flashfreeze-TNN and finish mob off</P>

[Xtremeeeee]

<DIV>I have exactly the same problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in a group with a tank (guardian) and healer (templar) earlier, the healer was afk and the tank pulled a group of owlbears (4 of them). I stood there for 10 secs just waiting for him to pull agro, he did several taunts and all of a sudden when I hadnt even cast ONE spell, I get agro from 2 of them. They just run towards me and agro me for no reason, even after being taunted. I would say this has happened about 5 times to me.</DIV>

[Aral]

<P>To the original poster: Is this unusual aggro happening in Runnyeye?  On boars and minotaurs?  I saw you were level 34, and thought this might be the case. <BR><BR>If so, I nearly quit my Bruiser tank after several frustrating runs in RE.  I eventually figured out that the animal-type mobs in RE have the old "owlbear" bug from nek forest - for whatever reason (and it does NOT happen every time), 1-3 mobs in a multi-mob heroic pull will immediately switch targets upon the death of one of their members.  It is as if the hate list is completely reset, and it takes many, MANY taunts and group buff casts to get the mobs back as a tank.  </P> <P>I experienced the exact same thing with my berserker at 33, and if there is any class that has no excuse to lose aggro it's berserker <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P>Once I moved out of RE, or simply ran through just goblins or other humanoid type mobs, the problem never recurred - on both bruiser and berserker I was back to having the winning aggro management I thought I'd lost for good. </P> <P>With your paladin friend, make sure he is using that hate transferrence spell (believe it's called Redemption) on you. It won't cure all ills, and won't make the RE boars and such stick to him, but in normal bug free aggro situations it should help you get close to "full throttle." </P> <P>Also, at 40, I personally chose the 10.7 second stun over the noxious bolt replacement.  I've saved myself many times over with that spell, as it's normally long enough to finish the mob or get a root off and move my butt well away from the source of pain. </P> <P> </P>

[Schaestm]

<DIV>One thing many tanks don't realize is that casting buffs to gain hate is necessary for holding aggro.  Granted I have never found a tank that can hold aggro if I go full out from the get go, but in the case where I just debuff and wait for 5 seconds first, I can go pretty much full out with a berserker as tank.  I'll still get aggro at times, but then I'll just throw aura of emptiness followed by deter 3 seconds later and that gives the tank a good 10 seconds or so to regain hate.  Another tip for when you get aggro:  try taking a step back as you hear the mob cast a combat art.  For example, it is trying to barrage you, you step back.. then stop and wait for it to catch up.  It will try to barrage you again, and you can step back to avoid again.  If you time it properly, you can throw a stun at the right time and they will never get off the combat art <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then again you might not want to listen to me because I have the highest number of deaths on Lucan for a non-plat farmer.. but most of that comes from trying to solo everything <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Morbazon</DIV>

[Deathspell]

I've to reconsider my previous post... although it still is safe, but yeh, one tank is not the other tank. I've 2 guardians, I can pull aggro whenever I want really,... Then, I've grouped a few times with a 46 Bruiser... At lvl 43-44 I only managed to get aggro 3 times. It was amazing, I could really nuke and do HO's all the time, the lvl 47-50^^ mobs almost died like flies. Granted he had almost compete "legendary" gear and weaponry, but still... it was like a new world opening up... Btw, any of you know if a tank being on a horse and/or using no shield has an effect on holding aggro or doing damage? <div></div>

[Sac_jok]

<FONT color=#ffff00>Btw, any of you know if a tank being on a horse and/or using no shield has an effect on holding aggro or doing damage?</FONT><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I don't know about the shield hepling in keeping aggro, I believe it just helps reduce his damage...but I know sitting on a horse does nothing at all. In fact, I usually turn the tanks sitting on a steed into frogs it just annoys the crap outta me. :smileywink:</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Sac_joker on <span class=date_text>05-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:10 AM</span>

[Teeuff]

<P>I have had the same problem of getting agro from the monsters i'm not even attacking.</P> <P>While assisting the guardian and casting away he keeps that agro, but one of the others will</P> <P>peel off and come to me.  This is in Nektulos and happend to me in CoB.  Happend using</P> <P>dark distortion.  Not anything AE.</P>

[Hiei_1]

<DIV>I've come to the conclusion that adept3 spells for a warlock are only good for soloing.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks with adept 3 or  higher main nukes either need to lower their dps when grouping or get a higher lvl [Removed for Content] out tank, or else they're gonna pull agro, alot of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, all the tricks that everyone says about: </DIV> <DIV>1.Waiting 5,10, ? seconds after pull before you nuke</DIV> <DIV>2.Starting off with all DoT's</DIV> <DIV>3.Slowing down your HO's</DIV> <DIV>This all counts as lowering your dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A tank having a shield SHOULD make him pull LESS agro.  If he has a good 2 handed weapon, or 2 good one handed weapons he can do more dmg than with a 1-hander and a shield.  The horse doesn't do anything accept annoy everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Oakbr]

OK, I'm a Paladin Spy invading the Warlock forums.  Sorta.  My main is a 41 Pally, 2nd main is a 34 Warlock, so I know both sides of the aggro issue reasonably well.  When I'm tanking, the two-hander gets bagged--shield is a must for tanking for two reasons: 1) extra mitigation helps the healer; and 2) we have a multi-target stun line that requires a shield.  As a tank, my feeling is that if a caster is dumb enough to drop that 900 point nuke on incoming, it is just further proof that Darwin was right.  However, if the caster will work with me, we won't have aggro issues.  Single targets are really not a problem--just let me get the mob back to camp, turn him, and hit one HO, and you can unload--I won't lose aggro even if you sodomize the mob's children at that point.  Of course, I'll be doing all my standard tank-tricks during the fight--taunts, buffs, shield bash, etc--that's the way tanking works. Multi-mob encounters can be tricky.  As noted above, our group taunts have a long recast, and worse, we often have to switch targets to keep/regain aggro. For that reason, I usually ask my groups to NOT ASSIST THE MAIN TANK!!! I'll usually designate either the off tank (if I have one), or a good scout, or in a pinch, even a caster, as the Main Assist. That job description is really simple.  Pick a mob, and stay on it until it dies, then move to the next mob.  Everyone that is not me (main tank) or the healer should be assisting the Main Assist.  This frees me up to do what I need to do to keep aggro on the entire encounter, including switching targets as needed.  I prefer an off tank or scout for MA duty, because they will sometimes take a hit or two. With multi-target encounters, a caster should never just target a mob and nuke away.  That will get you killed, regardless of how good your tank may be.  ALWAYS target through the main assist, or if there is no main assist, target through the main tank.  The reason for this is it doesn't take a lot of aggro to keep a mob's attention as long as no one else is building hate.  My group taunts/HO damage/PB Nukes are usually enough...UNLESS you drop that 900 pointer...in which case, I hope you're on good terms with Karana, cuz you are about to meet him in person.  Also, pay close attention during the fights--avoid dropping that big DD on a "fresh" mob as soon as the previous one dies.  Let either the MT or the MA have a second to switch targets, and actually do some damage--maybe drop a single target debuff--then drop your DD/ND as normal. If you do pull aggro, stun, root, and back away.  If stun/root fizzles, do not run around trying to survive.  It won't work most of the time, anyway.  All running around does is possibly aggro nearby adds to wipe your group, while making it difficult/impossible for the tank to regain aggro or the healer to save your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  Just stand there and die if you must.  The healer will rez you, and you will either get better at aggro management, or team with better tanks, or both, in the future.

[Oakbr]

<div></div>OK, I'm a Paladin Spy invading the Warlock forums.  Sorta.  My main is a 41 Pally, 2nd main is a 34 Warlock, so I know both sides of the aggro issue reasonably well.  When I'm tanking, the two-hander gets bagged--shield is a must for tanking for two reasons: 1) extra mitigation helps the healer; and 2) we have a multi-target stun line that requires a shield.  As a tank, my feeling is that if a caster is dumb enough to drop that 900 point nuke on incoming, it is just further proof that Darwin was right.  However, if the caster will work with me, we won't have aggro issues.  Single targets are really not a problem--just let me get the mob back to camp, turn him, and hit one HO, and you can unload--I won't lose aggro even if you sodomize the mob's children at that point.  Of course, I'll be doing all my standard tank-tricks during the fight--taunts, buffs, shield bash, etc--that's the way tanking works. Multi-mob encounters can be tricky.  As noted above, our group taunts have a long recast, and worse, we often have to switch targets to keep/regain aggro. For that reason, I usually ask my groups to NOT ASSIST THE MAIN TANK!!! I'll usually designate either the off tank (if I have one), or a good scout, or in a pinch, even a caster, as the Main Assist. That job description is really simple.  Pick a mob, and stay on it until it dies, then move to the next mob.  Everyone that is not me (main tank) or the healer should be assisting the Main Assist.  This frees me up to do what I need to do to keep aggro on the entire encounter, including switching targets as needed.  I prefer an off tank or scout for MA duty, because they will sometimes take a hit or two. With multi-target encounters, a caster should never just target a mob and nuke away.  That will get you killed, regardless of how good your tank may be.  ALWAYS target through the main assist, or if there is no main assist, target through the main tank.  The reason for this is it doesn't take a lot of aggro to keep a mob's attention as long as no one else is building hate.  My group taunts/HO damage/PB Nukes are usually enough...UNLESS you drop that 900 pointer...in which case, I hope you're on good terms with Karana, cuz you are about to meet him in person.  Also, pay close attention during the fights--avoid dropping that big DD on a "fresh" mob as soon as the previous one dies.  Let either the MT or the MA have a second to switch targets, and actually do some damage--maybe drop a single target debuff--then drop your DD/ND as normal. If you do pull aggro, stun, root, and back away.  If stun/root fizzles, do not run around trying to survive.  It won't work most of the time, anyway.  All running around does is possibly aggro nearby adds to wipe your group, while making it difficult/impossible for the tank to regain aggro or the healer to save your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  Just stand there and die if you must.  The healer will rez you, and you will either get better at aggro management, or team with better tanks, or both, in the future.

[Deathspell]

"Don't run away" , heard that so many times and it is partly true and it is heavily depending on the level of the mob, the group you are in, if you have a healer, the whole situation, etc... E.g. a yellow heroic mob. Tanks underestimate the term "VERY Light Armor", and they rarely can get the aggro back from me. I mostly die waiting for them to get the aggro from me, unless there's a fast healer in your group with mana... but it's all a matter of seconds. If the healer or tank is lagging or see it a bit too late, and you already had a critical hit,... the 2nd one will finish you off. I've tested this a zillion times, and to be honest, I think it's best to move in short moves in a circle within your group. Standing still just increases your chances of death. BTW, is this a fact that tanks hold better aggro with a shield? What about being on a horse? Does that have effect on your damage or aggro? I see many tanks just using Imbued Cedar Cudgels, no shields... <div></div>

[massem]

<DIV>Yep. I never stay put anymore if there is room to move without getting adds at least not if my stun is up. unless its a raid encounter. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My strategy is to stun the mob, then take two-three steps back, cast Frozen Manacles, then Truss and finally our unbreakable Ring of Cold (i am a wizzie but i think Warlock roots are pretty much equivalent). To then to show that I am now really [Removed for Content] off, I chain nuke the mob to death. If the mob doesnt go down quickly enough I have to reapply the roots, because there is no way the tank could peel the mob back at this point.  This is basically the same techniques as when soloing double ups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sometimes you get remarks from healers/tanks who dont know how to play (or imagine the power of) a high level sorcerer, but I don't like to rely on the healer/tank to stay alive when I can do it on my own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our stun/root combinations can be really powerful when used correctly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by masseman on <SPAN class=date_text>05-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:02 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by masseman on <SPAN class=date_text>05-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:03 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by masseman on <span class=date_text>05-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:04 AM</span>

[CrimsonAveng]

<DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>This thread has some good info but I thought I'd throw my 2 coppers in the pot. There are 3 reasons for undue warlock aggro:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>1. tank</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>2. warlock</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>3. non-druid healer</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>1. TANK: Not all tanks are equal. Apparently, being a good main tank takes some skill. You would thimk that guardians and zerkers would be the best tanks but the best tank i ever saw was a SK. However, the worst tank I ever saw was also a SK. The fact is that many tanks are not good at tanking. When I dont have to mana feed the tank to keep his power above 0, I know there is a problem. In fact, you can almost gauge this skill of the tank on how much power he or she has after the fight. Full power bar= bad tank in most cases. Also many tanks do not upgrade their taunts or chose taunt traits. I almost wish that several of the tanks would have their DPS scaled down so they can concentrate on being the tank, not trying to out-dps me in every battle...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>2. WARLOCK: Some spells draw more aggro than others. Casting a stifle, a buff, or a AOE attack is a good way to draw tons of aggro. Also nuking on the pull is a bad thing. We do have an underused spell that does help with aggro called Nullmail. It says it only lowers hate by maybe 50 or so (a low #) but that is per hit. If you get hit by 5-6 normal attacks then your hate is down by several hundred. It's not much but it has saved my posterior a few times.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3>3. Non-DRUID healer: A reactive heal cast on a group member seems to increase hate. So if I'm getting pounded on and the healer cats reactives to keep me alive...well I'm not gonna lose aggro so I might as well chain nuke to kill it myself. Reactives on MT only. Straight heals on other class members. *This was slated to be fixed but don't know if it was yet. It was been several weeks since I grouped with a healer other than a mystic, fury, or warden. If this has been fixed than just ignore #3. If it hasn't been fixed then try to educate your healer that you want straight heals only.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00 size=3></FONT> </DIV>

[Dae]

I keep seeing people say hold back. 10 seconds is enough for the rest of the group get your average xp mob to 60% or so. By that time you can't possibly contribute as much damage as the rest of the group because your dps isn't nearly as front loaded as we like to think and the rest of the group haven't had to hold back at all. They've been spamming combat arts from the get go. I also maintain the opinion that any game that requires to do nothing (eg. holding back for aggro purposes) in order to play it effectively is inherently flawed. Also if you get hit 5 or 6 times you're usually dead. I fail to see how a reactive aggro reducer is a good solution. <div></div>

[Deathspell]

I'm 45 and I play a lot with 2 Guardians (45 and 4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and a 49 Paladin, breaking aggro is fairly easy (without using that debuff that prevents the mob from casting,... that aggro magnet spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Some day, I would be a bad Warlock if I can't break the aggro, but... can also be a bad tank ofcoz, hehe... Fact is, if you break aggro, you are pushing the limits of your tank and you should remember that for future encounters... Best tank i've seen was a 46 Bruiser while we went to Permafrost. I couldn't do with the guardians what I did with the Bruiser. OK, he has some very nice gear, all legendary stuff, but I guess some people have more skill or know their class better.... <div></div>

[Melkor]

<P>here is how agro works for me at 50 if its a sk pally dot it and wait for them to do either the ho taunt or a little bit of dmg say mob down to 85% then unload. If its a zerker or guardian just unload if he is any good you shouldn't pull agro. As for raids go i pretty much chain cast but our MT is all fable and in my opinion best on server and definately one of the best serverwide. I good Guardian can hold agro unless u spike early in the fight too high like 600+ dps for a few seconds.... basically you just opened fight with deva and absolution back to back and both hit for max and tank didn't get his group taunts off... Really alot of agro is knowing your tank some really just aren't any good. So just feel it out at first if you don't know the guy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Urdd 50 Warlock on Befallen</P><p>Message Edited by Melkor66 on <span class=date_text>05-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:53 AM</span>

[maddawg138]

just like what urdd said. it all depends on the tank. you will have good ones and have terrible ones...also since you know how to play a tank(guardian) maybe let the tank know what to do a bit to keep aggro...ie buff mid fight and constant taunting that way you can pull off those HO's and what not. but in all honesty it depends on the tank and how he is managing his aggro to stay on top.