Warlock 40+....sad

[Victicu]

<DIV>Dark Distorion Adept 3, max hit - 620</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nil Distorion Apprentice 2 at lvl 43, max hit - 603</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've had Nil Distorion for 6 levels now and it still cant compete with Dark Distortion which I've had for 20 lvls.  I have basically done the same DPS since lvl 30.  I know I only have app2 of Nil distortion as there are no 30+ sages on my server, but for gods sake it shouldnt be THAT weak.  Pretty soon Nil Distortion is going to reach mastery and at this rate it will only be slightly more powerful than Dark Distortion was.  Nil Distorion is supposed to be an upgrade...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am lvl 43 and have the same DPS as a lvl 30.  Even if i did have adept 3 Nil Distortion it would add 100-150 damage to the average hit.  That is still a very sad upgrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In its current state Warlocks are not DPS....Guardians outdamage me easily....Scouts put me to shame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks give up heavy armor, high hp, melee abilites, and defensive abilites to use spells.  We give up all these things to cast high damage nukes, which cost high amounts of power.  But, I see other classes that easily do as much damage as me, for little power cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have zero tanking ability.</DIV> <DIV>I die in 2-3 hits on group exp mobs.</DIV> <DIV>I have no melee abilites.</DIV> <DIV>I do less damage than most classes.</DIV> <DIV>I run out of power faster than any other class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm.  I have a couple concentration buffs, and a few buffs that are far too weak to be worth casting, as i am already blowing all my power on sub-par nukes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So why am i a Warlock?  I guess I like to wear a robe.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 AM</span>

[Wombatt_Nome]

<DIV>I completely agree with your Nil Distortion criticisms. The problem to me seems that the forum does not want to admit our faults, instead babble on and on about how we are not gimped we are superior dps. The problem is the idea we were gimped stimmed from before Dark Distortion was originally fixed, and people still seem to think the same cries rang true afterwards. Without a Nil Distortion upgrade when we hit 37 we are once again faced with the same problems we had initially at 23. It does not seem like they tested spells at all past level 20. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One obstacle will be, that Wizards are equally broken in this respect, so people will try and pretend it is working as intended. Thier upgrade is also equally worthless until into the 40's with anything above app 2 being in horiffic supply if non-existant. The dps casters are doomed to be equally to thier level 30 counter-parts dps wise until a fix is made.</DIV>

[Mylix]

<DIV>Pretty much all of the classes are messed up after 40 since they are basically only 75% completed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But don't worry - even if your class did work, the 40+ content you're supposed to enjoy with your functional Warlock doesn't even exist yet.</DIV>

[Kamikaz]

<DIV>Are you sure Adept 1+ Nil Distortion does 800+?  Because the jump from Dark Distortion App 2 to Adept 1 was about 200+ damage. </DIV> <DIV>And you do not have the same dps as a lvl 30, you have 2 spells now that do 600+, which kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].</DIV>

[Zilri]

I am a 44 warlock from the Runnyeye server, and yes I agree that we need a few improvements to our class.As far as I've seen, encounters consisting of multiple enemies gives us an edge compared to other dps classes due to our massive AE's (300ea target and 150 ea target, then do some pillaging for power to group etc). In these battles we're highly effective.When it comes to single target mobs we're not so effective when it comes to damage output, but then again we got a lot of buffs we can use on our group mates (Toxic Grasp (adept1 drops in perma), Boon of the Shadowed. etc) which can be realy helpfull.. also the powerheal helps alot. Area root can be helpfull.. so all in all we got a great variation of skills... we are not a pure dps class, but a great addition to a group.. which in the end is what matters.as for Kamikaze, the Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion spells both share the same recast time.. so if you use one the other one can't be used within the recast time is done. :/EDIT: where does the Nil Distortion adept 1 drop?and any suggestions on what to use my ebon cluster on? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Zilrion on <span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span>

[tennj]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>The problem to me seems that the forum does not want to admit our faults, instead babble on and on about how we are not gimped we are superior dps. The problem is the idea we were gimped stimmed from before Dark Distortion was originally fixed, and people still seem to think the same cries rang true afterwards. Without a Nil Distortion upgrade when we hit 37 we are once again faced with the same problems we had initially at 23. It does not seem like they tested spells at all past level 20. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> Exactly, the game is not finished.  Anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong.  We all have to accept the fact that we are playing an extended beta and just hope that the problems are adressed and fixed asap.  As for me, I just dinged 36 last night so I  hope that it gets fixed in the next few days(yea right):smileytongue:</P>

[tennj]

<DIV>The people who still think we are a good dps class probablly just have not made it to lvl 37 yet.  I am lvl 36 and it's easy enough to listen to the post 37 warlocks here talk about how gimped nill distortion is.  It is very disapointing to grind out the 13 levels and be so close only to find out that the spell I've been drooling over is going to sit in my book and not get used, this is just wrong. Like someone said earlier, we have no defense, we have a litte utility but certainly not concidered a utility class.  When a tank gets that new breastplate, it helps him out bigtime and it's a nice accomplishment to finish that quest or win that roll.  When a melee dps class gets a new weapon it increases his dps and he too is stoked.  To say nothing of the lack of int robes (that is a whole seperate rant) we get a new spell and that is the main way our class improves and increases damage.   We are sorcerers, we blow stuff up , that's what our nukes are for and if they are gimped we suffer greatly.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cure Xanadu]

<DIV> I am also a warlock in my level twenties on the runeye server. As you said it won't be as powerful as other caharcters however i think that it is far more fun than any other characters especially "wizards". As everyone knows having fun is not enough also warlocks have to be more powerful. I also think soe has to fix that problem on their first big patch</DIV>

[tennj]

<DIV>Don't get me wrong, I'm loving my warlock and this game as a whole.  I just think that when a lvl 23 spell hits harder than a lvl 37 spell that is a direct upgrade, something is broken and needs to be fixed.  The different lvls of spells , app, adept, and master are fun and should by all means impact the potency of a spell , but a 14 level difference should certainly be enough to make up for that.  I am not one of those people who whines and say "MY CLASS IS BROKEN, I'M LEAVING!!!!!!!"  I have confidence that the issue will be adressed and fixed in the near future so I'll wait paitently.  Who knows, it might even be fixed before I get my next lvl.</DIV><p>Message Edited by tennjed on <span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 AM</span>

[Drdog98]

Honestly. Every class feels this way. I just hope things get better. I can speak from the view of a Defiler. My lvl 12 ward currently out does my lvl 26 and I am still having to use a lvl 15 heal instead of my 25+ heal becuase its still the best. The sad thing is I heal better than my wife who is also a lvl 33 but a cleric class. In the end its all about are you having fun.

[Zilri]

its about mastering a skill, when you first get one you're novice at it. You're not completely sure how to use it, but you can...Nil Distortion hits higher and higher when you level up, Dark Distortion is maxed and can not get better (unless you buy an upgrade for it, but still you can do the same with Nil)The problem isnt this spell realy, the problem is that this is the only spell that actually deals a decent amount of damage.Ofcourse you could mix it with dark pyre(and that previous version i have forgotten the name of) but it hits for an average of 250, which isnt alot.I'd rather have That spell do more damage than the nil distortion, that way I can vary my spell use more.

[Victicu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamikazie wrote:<BR> <DIV>And you do not have the same dps as a lvl 30, you have 2 spells now that do 600+, which kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No you cant cast them both at the same time. They share the same timer.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, does anyone know if Devistation, our lvl 50 nuke, shares the same timer of the Distortion line?</DIV> <DIV>I heard Ice Comet shares the same timer as wizards Ball of Fire line, and was wondering if it was the same for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Erow]

<DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3>Nil Distirtion should take off where Dark Distortion left off ...!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3>Nill should start nuking in the mid 600's and easily be at 850+ by lvl 43 ..!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3>Also, Warlocks should get another main nuke on a different timer such as WIzards do between their Ice and Heat spells ...!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zhi]

Not sure about level 35+, but at my current level 33 i do abseloutely crap to AOE damage where my single damage is 100% fare superio to my AOEs, especially if we compare it to a wizards AOE. So im not quite sure how you got to that we warlocks do massive aoe damage, so fare my aoes do stum, stifle and debuff + 85-180dmg where i can fire my single DD s.cloud as my primary (2-5s declay?) and d.distortion every 10s, + dots, which i find pretty nasty (ruff 1200 damage every 14 seconds + a 55-80 tick dot)!, so id say our single dmg is way better then our aoes, well at my current level it is.Well to the Nil Distortion, ack ack i can only hope that is something that will be "fixed" befor i reach that level, i whould hate to feel im playing lv 23-37 all over again and especially feeling weaker.Otherwise ill just begin playing an Alt at lv 40, <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><hr>Zilrion wrote:As far as I've seen, encounters consisting of multiple enemies gives us an edge compared to other dps classes due to our massive AE's (300ea target and 150 ea target, then do some pillaging for power to group etc). In these battles we're highly effective.When it comes to single target mobs we're not so effective when it comes to damage output, but then again we got a lot of buffs we can use on our group mates (Toxic Grasp (adept1 drops in perma), Boon of the Shadowed. etc) which can be realy helpfull..<span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span><hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Zhijn on <span class=date_text>01-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:50 PM</span>

[Effulgen]

at lvl39 my nil distortion hits for around 740 max, and usually in the 600's. This is a big improvement over my adept 3 dark distortion, but comparable to wizards, with their superior evac spell, the 100 damage more they can do at the same level just doesnt make us very balanced.

[Effulgen]

my nil distortion is also adept3

[Helsfire]

<DIV>I'm in complete agreement. Even worse, other people know how gimped we are and are looking at rogue type classes instead on us for DPS. And I don't blame them. Why get a Warlock when u can get better DPS and the ability to evac. I'm sorry, someone mentioned we're made as a support class. I disagree 100%. We can't do anything usefull. The reason I initially went with Warlock was that SOE had stated that Wizards and Warlocks would be the same. Just different spell lines, one used elemental type spells, and the other would be diseased and poison based. They've obviousely changed their mind on this issue. And that's great. I think variation is needed. But for God's sake give us something we can use. Make something usefull out of the Warlock so people will actually say "Hey there's a 38 Warlock LFG...grab him" instead of " There's nothing but a 38 Warlock LFG...maybe something else will come up, give it 5 min." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magnuss, level 38 Warlock...and that's my 2 cents worth...Thank-you</DIV>

[Thyri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dark Distorion Adept 3, max hit - 620</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nil Distorion Apprentice 2 at lvl 43, max hit - 603</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV>I run out of power faster than any other class.</DIV> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV>As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm.  </DIV> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Taken Out from the Wizards Board:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl46 wizard:</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Spell Breakdown:          Min--Max--Hits-----Total-----Avg</DIV> <DIV>(Primary Combat Spells)</DIV> <DIV>Piercing Icicles app2    - 55----80---3688--257057--69.70</DIV> <DIV>Ball of Flames Adept3  - 273--927--1107--752916--680.14</DIV> <DIV>Immolation Adept1        - 128--407--1782--476340--267.31</DIV> <DIV>Flamestrike app2          - 104--209--126-----21323--169.23 -- Replaced </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also taken out from another thread:</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>45 Wiz - Averrgae DPS 80</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>47 Gurdian - Averrgae DPS 70</DIV> <DIV>47 Troub - Averrgae DPS 35</DIV> <DIV>47 Assassian - Averrgae DPS 95</DIV> <DIV>47 Swashbuck - Averrgae DPS 100</DIV> <DIV>47 Cleric - Averrgae DPS 0</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So compared to what you have said (in first paragraph), yes Guardians seem to have a huge dps, scouts too, but NO Wizards are not better.</DIV> <DIV>Comparing to the above damage table, you said you hit ~600 with Dark Distortion adept3, and about the same with Nil Distortion. I guess both can be casted at the same time, as currently with 27 i had not a single spell like tanks have that cant be cast when an upgrade spell had been casted, Dont know recast time on Nil Distortion but as it is an upgrad i guess i can count with the 11seconds from Dark Dist. So with only those 2 spells you make 600+600 = 1200 in 11 seconds, thats OVER 100dps, so even your tool is a little bugged or u cant calculate simple things. Taking in a simple 150dmg spell too, you would make more then everyone in the list of 47 guys on dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm.</EM> </DIV> <DIV>Read your spells again and learn your class instead of grinding it thru without knowledge of your spells, NO other class has that power regenerating abilities like we have, and if you would have ever run into an add while the healers got out of power and you are the only one that can give the healer the power he needs to keep the party alive, you would know what place you have...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><EM>I run out of power faster than any other class.</EM></DIV> <DIV>That sentence just says me one thing: You dont know anything of what you are doing. Ok im only at 27 at the moment, but im always the VERY last in groups running out of power, even with no break casting. At 27 i got my 2nd Health to mana spell, i can cast both, and replenish only with this 12% mana in a few seconds, no other class has that power, and with a good healer in your group, the damage you do to yourself is just not worth any word. No other class has that huge out of combat mana regen buffs, which makes every group much more efficient on experience per time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what did you expected warlock to be? The Ruler class that outdamages wizards triple times? We do outdamage them if we want to, we have double the mana at the end of combat then a wizard has. And be carefull what to wish tanks like guardians in case of their high dps, if they could not do those we would be the one paying for it when he looses aggro...</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Effulgen]

Yeah, see the thing is you can only cast nil distortion, and the time in between casting it and being able to recast it is filled with crap 150dmg spells that adept 1's dont exist for.No, warlocks should not be the first class to run out of power, however our AE's are very taxing on the mana pool given their low damage, long cast time, and long recast times.Our mana regenerating powers are minimal at best. We get a 300mana buff that lasts 3 minutes, but at the end of the 3 minutes everyone in the group loses 300 mana, rather than the 300 mana max. The only point of doing this spell is if you know everyone will be burned on mana within 2.5 minutes, which basically just doesnt happen. Then we get a replenishment for someone else in the group at the cost of health to ourself. This i like, but it barely does anything to the other, maybe not even a single heals worth to a priest. Adept 1's do not exist on my server for this spell either. Then we get a spell, that also lacks any adepts, that taps the enemy encounter for mana and returns it to others in the group. It ticks for something like 15mana to each person in the group for 45 seconds.So, all in all, would you rather have someone that, if were to stop casting nukes could spend all their time replenishing themselves and others (and would require heals in the process), or would you rather have someone who could do 100dps.<p>Message Edited by Effulgence on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 AM</span>

[Thyri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Effulgence wrote:<BR>Yeah, see the thing is you can only cast nil distortion, and the time in between casting it and being able to recast it is filled with crap 150dmg spells that adept 1's dont exist for.<BR><BR>...<BR>So, all in all, would you rather have someone that, if were to stop casting nukes could spend all their time replenishing themselves and others (and would require heals in the process), or would you rather have someone who could do 100dps. <P>Message Edited by Effulgence on <SPAN class=date_text>01-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:54 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Can anyone confirm that Nil and Dark Distort are on the same timer? Would be very strange as there is really not a single spell except that being on the same timer...</P> <P>Also said, even if that is true (which would be really bad), if i want to, at lvl27, i can do:</P> <P>DarkDist: ~300 (only at app3, adept1 afaik would be ~400)</P> <P>Suffo Breath: ~200 (adept1)</P> <P>Ice Spike: ~180 (adept1)</P> <P>in the little time between first round freezing whorl (35 per tick, app3), second round incinerate (50per tick, app3), they tick usually 3 times before next round.</P> <P> </P> <P>So my current dps at lvl27 with that is 70.</P> <P> </P> <P>Calced now i would have adept3 Dark Dist (which is really just having a little time searching the resources or having the 10 to 20g to buy it), i could do 600 average with it at my current lvl, and the spell is still orange. I think with an adept3 of it, you should be able at lvl40 to hit for a minimum of 800 or 900., but if i would do 600 instead my current 300, i would have 98 dps at lvl27. Any you want to tell me you just cant get over the 100dps if you want?</P> <P> </P> <P>So my question to calulate it really for a 40+ warlock, what are damges at this level for those spells, app3 and/or adept1:</P> <P>Dark Emenations</P> <P>Noxious Bolts</P> <P>Null Absolution</P> <P>Aura of Darkness (Dot)</P> <P>Dark Pyre</P>

[Hid]

I agree with the original poster. I did not pick the Warlock for any other reason but to do damage. Obviously, I made the wrong decision. At level 26 I'm already feeling how useless I really am when compared to scouts. Less damage, less utility, less armor, less HP, more MP consumption. Really, what is my advantage here? What advantage do we really have except a cool title and a bat morph? I don't mind that Wizards would be able to outdamage us at all. However, that scouts and even guardians do it. Well, you start to wonder if SOE really has any clue what balance is. We already have the lowest HP, lowest armor, and we are with Wizards the most MP dependant ones out there. Why do we not deal the best damage along with said Wizards? It puzzles me.

[tennj]

<DIV>Yes they do run on the same timer.  I think you will agree with us when you get nill distortion that it is sub-par to what it a lvl 37 nuke should be.  When I was your level I was loving life also and had many of the same arguments that you have right now.  I still say that nill distortion is just waiting the same revamp that dark distortion had.  Remember the feeling of getting dark distortion before it got it's upgrade?  That was just awful, but at least then we could cast blaze right after it.  I'll say it again, when you grind out 14 levels and get an upgrade to your best spell, only to have it sit in your spellbook and not get used.....something is broken and needs to be fixed.  </DIV>

[Svarte_Pett]

<DIV>dbl post!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Svarte_Petter on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span>

[Svarte_Pett]

<DIV>Well i cant agree im no 22 on magic dmg list on runneyeye server, currently do around 820 whith my Nil Disortion. if u look at list its a few Wiz under me on dmg list some even at same lvl as me (44). and they do in avrage 100 dmg less then me.</DIV> <DIV>So i must say im very happy whith spells and all utilitys a warlock have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SvartePetter</DIV> <DIV>44 Dark Elf Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Via Mortuus</DIV> <DIV>Runneyeye</DIV><p>Message Edited by Svarte_Petter on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:15 AM</span>

[tennj]

<DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> Well i cant agree im no 22 on magic dmg list on runneyeye server, currently do around 820 whith my Nil Disortion. if u look at list its a few Wiz under me on dmg list some even at same lvl as me (44). and they do in avrage 100 dmg less then me.</DIV> <DIV>So i must say im very happy whith spells and all utilitys a warlock have.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></DIV> <P>What grade is your spell?  When did you start using it?  What did it hit for when you first got it at lvl 37 compared to dark distortion?  I'm looking forward to nill at 44, but my issue is that if it was not going to hit hard until lvl 44 then why the heck do we get it at lvl 37?  </P> <P></FONT> </P>

[Thyri]

its still funny to read all the boards here... Scouts whining about Wizards, Wizards whining about Guardians, Guardians whining about this and that and so on... Its the very same in every subclass board, on every page of it you find at least one "i feel so gimped 40+" thread. And Why?!? Just as u dont know how spells do work. Start searching the boards for basic guides on what difference between Adepts, Master and Apprentice spells are, learn what INT Mod does in practice, (i deal 20% to 40% more damage only thru INT eqipment), and if you want to compare things really then get some classes together that have their main spells on comparable levels. Sure if you have your main spells only on app2 why not should a scout or guardian with master/adept spells outdamage you? if they would not no one would ever pay for them that much.@victious: I did the time to take a look onto your eqipment on eq2players and i would really appreciate everyone else that agrees with him doing so and then rethinking why he does that low damage

[Junaru]

<blockquote><hr>Kamikazie wrote:<DIV>Are you sure Adept 1+ Nil Distortion does 800+? Because the jump from Dark Distortion App 2 to Adept 1 was about 200+ damage. </DIV><DIV>And you do not have the same dps as a lvl 30, you have 2 spells now that do 600+, which kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].</DIV><hr></blockquote>App2 to AdeptI wasn't even a 100+ jump..Dark distortion(AppI) max hit was 189Dark distortion(AppII) max hit was 229Dark distortion(AdeptI) max hit was 308<A href="http://www.durangosuv.com/parse2.htm" target=_blank>Parsed Data</A>

[Victicu]

<DIV> <DIV>ok Thyriel first off read the subject title... Warlock 40+ ... at lvl 27 yes Warlocks are powerful, but never grow any more powerful... at 27 you are about at your peak, your dps will grow very little in the next 20-25 lvls</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> Thyriel wrote:<BR></DIV> <DIV>I guess both can be casted at the same time, as currently with 27 i had not a single spell like tanks have that cant be cast when an upgrade spell had been casted, Dont know recast time on Nil Distortion but as it is an upgrad i guess i can count with the 11seconds from Dark Dist. So with only those 2 spells you make 600+600 = 1200 in 11 seconds, thats OVER 100dps, so even your tool is a little bugged or u cant calculate simple things. Taking in a simple 150dmg spell too, you would make more then everyone in the list of 47 guys on dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion can NOT be casted at the same time, dont know how many times i must say this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Thyriel wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm.</EM> </DIV> <DIV>Read your spells again and learn your class instead of grinding it thru without knowledge of your spells, NO other class has that power regenerating abilities like we have, and if you would have ever run into an add while the healers got out of power and you are the only one that can give the healer the power he needs to keep the party alive, you would know what place you have...</DIV> <DIV> <HR>  </DIV> <DIV>many classes get power regenerating spells, to say no other class gets our power regenerating ability is rediculous...and dont think dark pilliaging will not make you king...it cost nearly 300 power to cast and gives back around 10-15 power a tick for around a min, which is a trival amount when casters have well over 2000 power at the lvl you get the spell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only buff i use regularly is Boon of the Shadowed which goes off 100% of the time and is a very effctive spell to put on the tank...other buffs dont fire often enough or are too weak to bother with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Thyriel wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><EM>I run out of power faster than any other class.</EM></DIV> <DIV>That sentence just says me one thing: You dont know anything of what you are doing. Ok im only at 27 at the moment, but im always the VERY last in groups running out of power, even with no break casting. At 27 i got my 2nd Health to mana spell, i can cast both, and replenish only with this 12% mana in a few seconds, no other class has that power, and with a good healer in your group, the damage you do to yourself is just not worth any word. No other class has that huge out of combat mana regen buffs, which makes every group much more efficient on experience per time.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your group pulls very slow then or you are nuking very little...the tank i group with holds aggro very well and im always chain nuking Nil Distorion, Dark Pyre, Soul Flay, Aura of Darkness, and Chaotic Maelstrom.  And i use all my hp->power abilities in between nukes.  and "Huge out of combat regen buffs"?? lol where are those cause i havnt seen them yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Thyriel wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <P>So my current dps at lvl27 with that is 70.</P> <HR> <P>If you read the subject it says 40+ warlock...i know how much DPS a lvl 27 warlock can do...i have done the same DPS as a 27 warlock for the past 20 levels. </P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Thyriel wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>@victious: I did the time to take a look onto your eqipment on eq2players and i would really appreciate everyone else that agrees with him doing so and then rethinking why he does that low damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR>  </DIV> <DIV>Why the personal attack? and whats wrong with my gear...theres no gear my lvl on sale on the brokers...everything i have i get quested or dropped in exp group...not to mention gear has nothing to do with how much damage i do...i think my gear is pretty decent for my lvl.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i love how someone lvl 27 can tell me what its like to be lvl 40.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:32 AM</span>

[Victicu]

<P>sigh..sorry double post</P><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:00 AM</span>

[Victicu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thyriel wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>and if you want to compare things really then get some classes together that have their main spells on comparable levels. Sure if you have your main spells only on app2 why not should a scout or guardian with master/adept spells outdamage you? if they would not no one would ever pay for them that much.<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Everyone i group with has app2...adept1 are too rare and there are no tradeskillers making adept3<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:48 AM</span>

[Victicu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sorry brower lagged when i loaded eq2 and caused multiple post</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:45 AM</span>

[Victicu]

<DIV>sorry browser lagged when i was loading eq2 and caused multiple post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 AM</span>

[Calyp]

<DIV>Has anyone ever even see a Nil Distortion Adept 1 drop? I figurerd they were buggy like so many other spells that never seem to drop. Or at least I have never seen on broker or dropped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Calypsi </DIV> <DIV>37 Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Faydark</DIV>

[SINisterWyve]

This is pretty much a reply to just the starter of the thread and I suppose anyone else who agrees with him. If all you're going to do is whine and cry there are a few things you can do. You can either shutup and deal with it... go start a new character of a different class... or finally and the one I suggest if you really are truly so upset about it, is to just cancel your subscription and quit playing. It's as simple as that. Please choose one so that we don't have to read about horrible whining on the boards of those who play for the fun of it instead of having to be uber power gamers.<p>Message Edited by SINisterWyvern on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:28 PM</span>

[Thyri]

<DIV><EM>ok Thyriel first off read the subject title... Warlock 40+ ... at lvl 27 yes Warlocks are powerful, but never grow any more powerful... at 27 you are about at your peak, your dps will grow very little in the next 20-25 lvls</EM></DIV> <P>Sorry but as i wrote above, if you compare lvl27 to mid 30s adept1 spells with higher app2 you just know nothin about spells, they are simply said not comparable and knowing that app2 to adept1 is nearly 100% more damage, you would know that also your dps has growed over double, if you cant keep your main spells on the same level as you would like to compare them with, dont do it.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Your group pulls very slow then or you are nuking very little...the tank i group with holds aggro very well and im always chain nuking Nil Distorion, Dark Pyre, Soul Flay, Aura of Darkness, and Chaotic Maelstrom.  And i use all my hp->power abilities in between nukes.  and "Huge out of combat regen buffs"?? lol where are those cause i havnt seen them yet.</EM></DIV> <P>Have you ever seen the difference between a normal 3% regeneration rate and 10% regeneration rate? At 27 i can make this difference with adept1 (dont know english name of the spell its the common ooc mana regen buff we have), if u get additional some good drinks (those 2s thingys from npc), you regenerate 15% per tick, so i would definitly say HUGE difference when the entire group is ready again in double the time or better.</P><EM>Your group pulls very slow then or you are nuking very little...</EM> <P>That says me u had the same mana problem at my level, i dont have any mana problem, casting without pause 3 nukes per Dark Distortion, having every single spell on adept1 except my last 2 new spells and my Dots, so something you are doing wrong a little. (Ever tried adept1 health to power? I can at lvl27 with both health to power spells used in line bring me back 12% mana in a few seconds, make a complete new nuke round with that mana and just have those 2 spells ready again.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <P><EM>If you read the subject it says 40+ warlock...i know how much DPS a lvl 27 warlock can do...i have done the same DPS as a 27 warlock for the past 20 levels. </EM></P> <P>Sorry if this sounds aggressive, if so, it should be so. I wroted now 2 times, that u are comparing things like McD and 6star hotel eating, stop doing that bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], you just cant compare adept1 with app2 without the knowledge what exactly the dmg difference is on this.</P> <DIV> <DIV><EM>Why the personal attack? and whats wrong with my gear...theres no gear my lvl on sale on the brokers...everything i have i get quested or dropped in exp group...<STRONG><FONT size=5>not to mention gear has nothing to do with how much damage i do</FONT></STRONG>...i think my gear is pretty decent for my lvl.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>i love how someone lvl 27 can tell me what its like to be lvl 40</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>And here the big fat sentence i waited for. Grinding thru nearly 50 in 2 months or less, and NEVER took 5 minutes to read the manual. INT increases your damage in HUGE differences. Every INT seems to be like 1% more damage (at my current level range), so having 30 more INT or not, is a huge difference.</DIV></DIV>

[Batb]

<DIV>all the classes spells dont work or dont make sense post 30+ , Ive stopped playing my druid until the next patch, im not supprised higher lvl warlock spells dont make sense damage wise, i heard wizard is similar, Im sure they will fix it in a patch</DIV><p>Message Edited by Batbat on <span class=date_text>01-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:31 AM</span>

[Dae]

It's like EQ1 all over again. Gear benefits melees way more than it benefits casters. This was kinda fixed in EQ1 with the addition of focus items. However I doubt we'll see those in EQ2 any time soon since the game doesn't even have weapon procs so far as I can tell...The int thing is interesting since most items for the same slot share stats and only increase in magnitude. The only robes I've seen with int have been the newbie robe and the oracle robe. The AQ6 robe doesn't even have the most important stat for our class.Like I said it's like EQ1 all over again. If anyone remembers the quest armour from the temple of sol ro you'd recognise the pattern. Innapropriate stats left and right.

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SINisterWyvern wrote:<BR>This is pretty much a reply to just the starter of the thread and I suppose anyone else who agrees with him. If all you're going to do is whine and cry there are a few things you can do. You can either shutup and deal with it... go start a new character of a different class... or finally and the one I suggest if you really are truly so upset about it, is to just cancel your subscription and quit playing. It's as simple as that. Please choose one so that we don't have to read about horrible whining on the boards of those who play for the fun of it instead of having to be uber power gamers. <P>Message Edited by SINisterWyvern on <SPAN class=date_text>01-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:28 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thats a cop out.  You're saying because the spells are broken your only choice is to start a different class or quit the game.   The post 30 spells need to be fixed.  If no one complains about it they are not going to be fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My friend plays a swashbuckler and he keeps finding better weapons and armor and doesn't have any complaints about the class.  These problems only seem to affect the classes that rely on spells.  They just have not scaled the 30+ spells appropriately.</DIV>

[EricDu]

<DIV>You guys are scaring me.  I just dinged warlock 2 days ago.  I hope I didn't make a bad path choice.</DIV>

[MMOG]

<DIV>Like others have said, every class is complaining about the same things.  EQ1 was still working on class balancing after 5+ years.  We will see the same stuff happening here.  It just takes time to find the balance.  SOE said we will be a DPS class, so eventually we will get there...</DIV>

[Victicu]

<BR> <P><BR>Thyriel are you playing the same game i am??? </P> <P>You are spewing so much false information its making me sick.</P> <P> </P> <P> <HR>  app2 to adept1 is nearly 100% more damage <HR> <P></P> <P>NEVER seen an upgrade that large from app2 to adept1....IF this was true my nil distortion adept1 would be doing 1200 damage at adept1...</P> <P> <HR> Have you ever seen the difference between a normal 3% regeneration rate and 10% regeneration rate? At 27 i can make this difference with adept1 (dont know english name of the spell its the common ooc mana regen buff we have), if u get additional some good drinks (those 2s thingys from npc), you regenerate 15% per tick, so i would definitly say HUGE difference when the entire group is ready again in double the time or better. <HR> <P></P> <P>NEVER seen anyone regen 15% a tick...not even with bard+chanter+warlock+best food .... if anyone has seen 15% regeneration please speak up...this is complete bull crap.  Warlock power regen power are nothing spectacular....</P> <P> <HR> Ever tried adept1 health to power? <HR> <P></P> <P>Yes, I have adept 1 painful mediation and adept 1 Grisly Contract...but yet again at lvl 27 you believe you know about all the problems people have at 40+</P> <P> </P> <P> <HR> Sorry if this sounds aggressive, if so, it should be so. I wroted now 2 times, that u are comparing things like McD and 6star hotel eating, stop doing that bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], you just cant compare adept1 with app2 without the knowledge what exactly the dmg difference is on this. <HR> <P></P> <P>I am comparing adept3 of a level 23 spell and app2 of a lvl 37 spell which is supposed to be an upgrade...no matter what the app or adept the spell is at the lvl 37 spell should ALWAYS be more powerful than the lvl 23 spell.</P> <P><EM> </P> <P> <HR> <P></P></EM><EM> <DIV>And here the big fat sentence i waited for. Grinding thru nearly 50 in 2 months or less, and NEVER took 5 minutes to read the manual. INT increases your damage in HUGE differences. Every INT seems to be like 1% more damage (at my current level range), so having 30 more INT or not, is a huge difference.</DIV> <P></EM> <HR> <P></P> <P> I exp'ed the other day with no gear on for fun, since we were extremely bored...i saw no difference in the damage i did with or without int gear...if you can post some hard data and prove me wrong please do so. </P> <P>PLEASE prove that 1int = 1% damage increase becauce once again i call this false information...no where have i seen this kind of damage upgrade come from int gear.</P> <P>Yes, i read the manual...did you know the manual says that sitting increases power regen??? The manual must always be right.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please dont post false information here.</P> <P></P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:09 PM</span>

[Victicu]

<P>the dbl post strikes again!</P><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>01-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:06 PM</span>

[DarkSyph]

<DIV>I agree with Vic's posts. A lvl 50 warlock friend of mine with Adept 3 Nil Distortion told me he does at max 830ish, averages for 700s. At 36 I do 620 max and averages for 500s on Adept 3 Dark Distortion. Maybe it's just me but grinding 13 levels to get an upgrade of 200 on a main nuke isn't much of an upgrade. </DIV>

[SINisterWyve]

killzone i'm just saying that if you have nothing better to do than to flame other people with penta-posting and whining on these boards rather than do mature /feedback in the game then you should pull one of those options. I'm not saying just cuz they're broke do it. I just hit 30 and I'm still going to keep playing because i understand that not everything is gonna work perfectly from the start. If you follow the proper channels for feedback instead of throwing a tantrum on the boards you are much more likely to be heard. I understand ya know. I'm sure it sucks to be broken. There are just better ways to handle it.

[Polyphem]

Unfortunately I completely agree with the original poster.Other classes may have balancing issues, too, but warlocks are really the most broken class in the game. Past lvl 40, we are truly the most gimped class in the game. We were supposed to be damage dealers. Damage ? Almost every other class easily outdamages us.- the scout classes ? don't even think of getting close in damage with them. An assassin, swashbuckler or brigand does 2x the dps we do at lvl 44, rangers and the bard subclasses about 1,5x. Plus they can take hits much better than we can, plus they can evac...- the fighter classes ? Well they are supposed to tank, not to do dps, aren't they ? At lvl 44 warlocks get outdamaged by berzerkers, bruisers, monks and guardians (exactly ... these are those with the highest ac and hp !). Only shadowknights and paladins lag a bit behind.- the priest classes. Well they are supposed to be healers, not dds. Which doesn't mean, of course, that furies eg. come very close in dps to warlocks. Plus the heals. Templars and Inquisitors can solo mobs that a warlock of the same level doesn't even dream of !- the other mage classes. Wizards: they have harder hitting nukes, plus they can easily switch between ice/heat nukes without losing damage, while ALL our hard hitting nukes are poison based ! Plus they don't have this issue with their spell upgrades sharing the same timer. FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY DO DARK DISTORTION AND NIL DISTORTION SHARE THE SAME TIMER ??? they are our only hard hitting nukes until 50. CHANGE THAT OR GIVE US OTHER HARD HITTING NUKES !!! Illusionists: Well they have their issues too. But after all they can mezz and therefore are useful for groups who need crowd control, so dps is not that important for them.Summoners: They have their pets as their free "dots", Necro has some nice dots, the other some nice nukes. Plus they solo pretty well, even at 40+.At current state, warlocks are pretty useless in any party after lvl 40. They can't dish out enough damage, the buffs aren't that great, they can't heal, they can't tank. So why should any group choose a warlock ?N.B.: I know that a warlock between 25-30 is a pretty strong character. But it doesnt get any better after lvl 35 and completely stagnates at lvl 40.

[Thyri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Victicus7 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>Thyriel are you playing the same game i am??? </P> <P>You are spewing so much false information its making me sick.</P> <P> </P> <P> <HR>  app2 to adept1 is nearly 100% more damage <HR> <P></P> <P>NEVER seen an upgrade that large from app2 to adept1....IF this was true my nil distortion adept1 would be doing 1200 damage at adept1...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>I said nearly 100%, ill test my new spells on lvl3 mobs in the newbie zones and not on actual targets. Higher Mobs have higher resists. Also i testet the % more damage not with a nuke that hits a range of 150 difference or more. With lvl9 or so i found a Lightning Burst Adept1, it has good constant damage, my max hit with app2 at this time was 19dmg, my min hit 16dmg, with the adept1 on it i had 29 min hit and 37 max hit, which is an improvement of a little over 90%. Low lvl mobs, orcs in cl did not take that much more damage as they have little resists.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> <HR> Have you ever seen the difference between a normal 3% regeneration rate and 10% regeneration rate? At 27 i can make this difference with adept1 (dont know english name of the spell its the common ooc mana regen buff we have), if u get additional some good drinks (those 2s thingys from npc), you regenerate 15% per tick, so i would definitly say HUGE difference when the entire group is ready again in double the time or better. <HR> <P></P> <P>NEVER seen anyone regen 15% a tick...not even with bard+chanter+warlock+best food .... if anyone has seen 15% regeneration please speak up...this is complete bull crap.  Warlock power regen power are nothing spectacular....</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Strange then that i regen 160 mana out of combat soloing with crafted drinks, and 95 mana with bought 77c drinks. Oh yes, i have a little over 1k mana.</FONT></P> <P> <HR> Ever tried adept1 health to power? <HR> <P></P> <P>Yes, I have adept 1 painful mediation and adept 1 Grisly Contract...but yet again at lvl 27 you believe you know about all the problems people have at 40+</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Well, i dont see how you would be able to get into mana problems against a wizard (always a good compare on this), most of their spells are using more power than ours, and we have the drain and replenish spells. Again read the other classes boards, they are whining all over the same.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> <HR> Sorry if this sounds aggressive, if so, it should be so. I wroted now 2 times, that u are comparing things like McD and 6star hotel eating, stop doing that bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], you just cant compare adept1 with app2 without the knowledge what exactly the dmg difference is on this. <HR> <P></P> <P>I am comparing adept3 of a level 23 spell and app2 of a lvl 37 spell which is supposed to be an upgrade...no matter what the app or adept the spell is at the lvl 37 spell should ALWAYS be more powerful than the lvl 23 spell.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Yes its supposed to be an upgrade, but really man, do you really think an add3 (which is nearly at master1 level)  can compare to an upgrade spell 5 spell levels lower? If that would do more damage update spells would be of that much power that no one ever would give out gold for adept3 spells, or even master spells until the finals. You cant just think a simple upgrade spell should have more then 200% better damage.</FONT></P> <P><EM> </P> <P> <HR> <P></P></EM><EM> <DIV>And here the big fat sentence i waited for. Grinding thru nearly 50 in 2 months or less, and NEVER took 5 minutes to read the manual. INT increases your damage in HUGE differences. Every INT seems to be like 1% more damage (at my current level range), so having 30 more INT or not, is a huge difference.</DIV> <P></EM> <HR> <P></P> <P> I exp'ed the other day with no gear on for fun, since we were extremely bored...i saw no difference in the damage i did with or without int gear...if you can post some hard data and prove me wrong please do so. </P> <P>PLEASE prove that 1int = 1% damage increase becauce once again i call this false information...no where have i seen this kind of damage upgrade come from int gear.</P> <P>Yes, i read the manual...did you know the manual says that sitting increases power regen??? The manual must always be right.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Read the online updated version, the sitting sentence is out of it, but the INT is still in. Again if you want to test such things, get to lvl3 mobs and use constant damage spells not spells with more then 100dmg range</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[tennj]

<DIV>Ok, dinged 37 a couple of days ago so now I feel I can honestly comment on this as well.  First thing I did was run out, find a yellow solo mob, debuff it and blast away with my new spell that I worked so hard to get.  I think the mob laughed at me.  I took the next day and soloed, and I really am not a big soloer.  I soloed and soloed and soloed all day and into the night.  I was dirty and starting to get the shakes from playing too much but damnit I had almost a platt from farming.  I found a rare on the market and found Zorander(the greatest sage ever) and placed my order for an adept3 nill distortion.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now everything is going to be ok right?  Wrong, I spent a few hours with some good friends trying to make some money and gain some xp (mostly make money since I just blew my life savings on an adept 3 scroll) What I came up with is this. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dark distortion at lvl 37 adept 3, mob debuffed and my int atm was 134</DIV> <DIV>max hit was 657----  cool , not too shabby and good damage (at lvl 30 or so)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nill distortion at lvl 37 adept 3, mob debuffed and my int atm was 134</DIV> <DIV>max hit was 689----   you're kidding right? I just busted my butt and got an upgrade for a level 23 spell, then farmed for hours on end and spend every gold piece I owned for an extra 32 damage!!!!! this is pathetic.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I have said before, the same revamp that dard distortion recieved should and probablly is coming to nill distortion.  I have complete confidence that SoE will adress this issue and hopefully soon.  To the people here that actually have the spell and therefore are familiar with it's inadiquacies, Don't lose hope!  Thank you for posting here and making your voice heard and keep your chin up, SoE has done a pretty good job with this game so far and one day we will get that patch.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by tennjed on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:01 AM</span>

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Polyphem wrote:</P> <P><BR>- the other mage classes. <BR>Wizards: they have harder hitting nukes, plus they can easily switch between ice/heat nukes without losing damage, while ALL our hard hitting nukes are poison based ! Plus they don't have this issue with their spell upgrades sharing the same timer. FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY DO DARK DISTORTION AND NIL DISTORTION SHARE THE SAME TIMER ??? they are our only hard hitting nukes until 50. CHANGE THAT OR GIVE US OTHER HARD HITTING NUKES !!!<BR><BR><BR>N.B.: I know that a warlock between 25-30 is a pretty strong character. But it doesnt get any better after lvl 35 and completely stagnates at lvl 40.<BR></P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wizards are in the same boat as Warlocks.  The spell upgrades for the DD spells are on the same timer.  Immolation(39) shares a timer with Breath of theTyrant(22), Ball of Fire(23) shares a timer with Ball of Flames(37) and Ice Comet(50).  Almost all of the Wizards damage is fire based.</P> <P>They need to fix this asap for both classes.<BR></P>

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Thyriel wrote:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>NEVER seen an upgrade that large from app2 to adept1....IF this was true my nil distortion adept1 would be doing 1200 damage at adept1...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>I said nearly 100%, ill test my new spells on lvl3 mobs in the newbie zones and not on actual targets. Higher Mobs have higher resists. Also i testet the % more damage not with a nuke that hits a range of 150 difference or more. With lvl9 or so i found a Lightning Burst Adept1, it has good constant damage, my max hit with app2 at this time was 19dmg, my min hit 16dmg, with the adept1 on it i had 29 min hit and 37 max hit, which is an improvement of a little over 90%. Low lvl mobs, orcs in cl did not take that much more damage as they have little resists.</FONT></P> <P>PLEASE prove that 1int = 1% damage increase becauce once again i call this false information...no where have i seen this kind of damage upgrade come from int gear.</P> <P>Yes, i read the manual...did you know the manual says that sitting increases power regen??? The manual must always be right.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Read the online updated version, the sitting sentence is out of it, but the INT is still in. Again if you want to test such things, get to lvl3 mobs and use constant damage spells not spells with more then 100dmg range</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Just a few comments on this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1)  Blaze went from doing 35 points to 75 points of damage when upgrading from app 2 to adept 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) I can't speak for Warlock spells, but on the Wizard line,  Ball of Fire went from doing 200 to around 400 when upgrading from app 1 to adept 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Ball of Flames (37) goes from doing  600 average to around 700 average when upgrading from app 2 to adept 3 (adept 1 doesn't drop) at level 45.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) The melee classes get their BIG damage improvments by getting better weapons (i.e. sbd, ebcc) and by using the flowing black silk sash (fbss) which gives haste.  They don't need to upgrade from app 2 to massively outdamage Wizards and Warlocks.  With a bard and or chanter in the group their dps is even higher still.   Is ours?  No we can cast longer (from power regens) but the recast time on spells is still the same and thus our dps compared to melee classes is even worse (and it was bad even without a chanter or bard speeding up the melee attacks.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5) I have played around with my int and have never seen a change in damage due to increasing or decreasing it.  It only affects power.  Evocation affects the damage done by DD spells.<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>

[WaachBack]

<DIV>Uninstall guys......I find that I am pretty happy with my warlock. Also, give them a chance, its not like the game has been out for a long time....</DIV>

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WaachBack wrote:<BR> <DIV>Uninstall guys......I find that I am pretty happy with my warlock. Also, give them a chance, its not like the game has been out for a long time....</DIV> <P> </P> <DIV> <P>Draconnus Waywif<BR>High Elf<BR>LvL 32 Warlock<BR>LvL 27 Alchemist</P></DIV> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If your still level 32 then simple comments like this contribute nothing to the discussion.  Prior to 37 the Warlock and Wizard are kings of damage. </P> <P>Think about how much you like playing the class now.  Wouldn't it be nice if you could like it as much after 40? <BR></P>

[WaachBack]

<DIV>People have been complaining since lvl 20...you cant deny that...</DIV> <DIV>People will never be happy I guess <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by WaachBack on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[Thyri]

<DIV>With those 2 comments, i think the main problem here is more a bug then anything else:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Dark distortion at lvl 37 adept 3, mob debuffed and my int atm was 134<BR>max hit was 657----  cool , not too shabby and good damage (at lvl 30 or so)<BR> <BR>Nill distortion at lvl 37 <STRONG>adept 3,</STRONG> mob debuffed and my int atm was 134<BR>max hit was <STRONG>689-</STRONG>---   you're kidding right? I just busted my butt and got an upgrade for a level 23 spell, then farmed for hours on end and spend every gold piece I owned for an extra 32 damage!!!!! this is pathetic.  </EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><BR><EM>1)  Blaze went from doing <STRONG>35 points to 75 points </STRONG>of damage when upgrading from app 2 to adept 1.<BR> <BR>2) I can't speak for Warlock spells, but on the Wizard line,  Ball of Fire went from doing 200 to around 400 when upgrading from app 1 to adept 1.<BR> <BR>3) Ball of Flames (37) goes from doing  <STRONG>600 average to around 700 </STRONG>average when upgrading from app 2 to adept 3 (adept 1 doesn't drop) at level 45.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>The spells before had the nearly 100% more damage i wroted and also noticed with all spells, but it seems the lvl37 do not have those. So at best /bug those ingame, Spells should increase their damage buy those spells, if they dont do it like they should its definitly a bug and not an imbalance problem</DIV>

[Kalath]

<DIV> <DIV>Just a few points:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1)  Increasing spell levels affects lower level spells much more dramatically than high level spells, as it doesn't increase by %, but by a set damage ammount... you ARE  NOT going to see dramatic (100%) increase on any high level spell (more toward 20%).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2)  Same on power recovery, it does not go up by % for what you get back, but by a set number of points... so with a smaller power pool, that 50 power/tick regen looks alot nicer %-wise in a 1k power pool than 70 does in a 5k pool... the power pool and cost of spells increase faster than the recovery abilities keep up.. thus lowering the % they give back at higher levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3)  Although the manual does indeed refer to intelligence as increasing the damage of our spells, it just doesn't work (and is VERY easy to test).  I parse everything, and have done tests over 80-100 fights with and without my int-boosting gear (a difference of roughly 30% of my int) and had virtually no difference in either max or min damages against the same Mobs/same levels/same everything else :/  All it seems to do is lower your actual power pool.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4)  I play both a Swashbuckler and a Warlock, and the Swash HEAVILY outdamages the Warlock as long as 1)he isn't the target (gotta be positional) and 2) he hasn't run out of poison... of course if the Warlock is the target of the mob he doesnt have to worry about a drop in DPS so much as dying instantly, unlike the Swash (who has alot of aggro-controlling moves both to get and lose aggro).  BTW my Warlock has alot more of his Spells upgraded to Adept levels than my Swash does (app 2s mostly there).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5)  Wizards are in the same boat as we are as far as hitting a "sweet spot" in thier upper 20s to lower 30s, and then kind of fading out.  Wizards ALSO only have one major DD line (fire)... cold and magic lines are thier "utility" like AE, stuns, dots, etc... for us its Poison as the main DD, with cold, disease, and some mental thrown in on our extras.  Wizards seem to have slightly better DPS, while we have slightly better group-buffs (only because I like our Power regen buff better than offense+ buff they get).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>6)  All I have to say is wait a bit, they already overhauled the low end skills, and every class is having some difficulty with the high end skills not scaling to be terribly effective compared to mid-range stuff... wait till more people reach those levels and it will be a bigger priority to patch.</DIV></DIV>

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WaachBack wrote:<BR> <DIV>People have been complaining since lvl 20...you cant deny that...</DIV> <DIV>People will never be happy I guess <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by WaachBack on <SPAN class=date_text>01-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:26 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not true at all.  I didn't see any complaints about Wizards prior to level 37.  In fact most Wizards that didn't hit 37 called all the people who were complaining whiners and said the class was fun to play.  Well yeah, it was fun to play.  Post 37 though, it would be the equivalent of them taking the level 20 spells and cutting the damage in half.  How much fun would that be?</P> <P>As far as Warlocks, the only complaints  pre 37 were before they fixed up the damage of some of the spells (hey they were doing too little damage and it was obvious.)<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by killzone on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:43 AM</span>

[Polyphem]

Warlocks are supposed to be damagedealers. Well they are till , let's say, until lvl 37. After that level they just get outdamaged by any other class. They get outdamaged by all scout classes, they get outdamaged by the tank classes. Some priest classes are not far behind in damage (plus they can heal !). So why should any group choose a warlock for the group ? Because of the mana regen buffs ? Well then you're better off with a coercer/thaumaturgist. Their buffs are butter, plus they can mezz.Wizards have to some extend the same trouble. But while ALL hard hitting nukes of the warlock are poison based, not all hard hitting nukes of wizards are fire based. (eg Ice Comet)

[MMOG]

<DIV>Did the 1-6-05 patch address the 37+ issues?  Just curious.</DIV>

[Tiberinus]

<DIV>No it actually made it worse.  They give us bellengers yesterday which today put it on same timer as dark and nil distortion.  And then they also put all our mana converts on same timer and our debuffs..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damage is still the same with adept 3 Nil distortion</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 43 Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Crushbone Server</DIV>

[flesh]

This needs to be bumped.Warlocks:No ability to take damage (obvious).No utility to speak of (our buffs make no noticable difference on DPS, regen, etc)Monks, Scouts, Asssassins, even Guardians and Shadowknights do more damage than we do on average.What is the point of our class other than a place holder?I will ding 50 in a few days and see no hope for our level 50 spells bumping us back up to the "kings of damage."Right now, Assassins are the kings of damage.If you want raw numbers or data, I can provide facts, figures, graphs, whatever. Any intelligent player with a parser, however, can debuff themselves, factor in DoTs, and do the math.Frail 47 Warlock Mistmoore

[Bup]

<DIV>Warlocks stop being 'king of damage' in the early 30s.  I have grouped with a lvl 32 Assassin who can pull off a 1200 damage opener from stealth.  He can then re-stealth and do it again mid combat.  That plus his normal hits, we just don't do that kind of damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And Vic's point that a spell 14 levels higher that is a direct upgrade to the previous spell and therefore should always, no matter what, do more damage is a valid point.  Nil Distortion App1, fresh out of the box, should outdamage Dark Distortion Master 4 everytime no questions. It is the upgrade...what kind of upgrade is worse?</DIV>

[Bup]

<DIV>I am lvl 37 by the way and love my warlock.  Just wish we did more damage.</DIV>

[Seef]

Sigh...have I chosen another screwed up class again?I had similar issues when playing a Droid Engineer in Star Wars Galaxies. I mastered the class only to find most of the droid items you could create were broken or not implemented yet. It was weks and weeks before anything was done to rectify things and then it was too little too late.Do SOE EVER learn from their mistakes? When their games come out of beta I do not expect to find myself encountering issues due to unfinished or broken content and untested/unbalanced spells. I bought this game out of beta and I'm not here to spend my subsciprtion money partaking in an "extended beta".I'm at level 22 Warlock and things are turning sour already. Time to place my pre-order for World of Warcraft on Amazon UK ready for when my free month play is up I think. See you all there. Hopefully Blizzard will provide a fresh approach to MMO gaming. SOE can't seem to shake themselves free of the errors they make and are criticised for in their past games. Innovation is what we need, not renovation of the same old same old with prettier graphics <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />That said I must say job well done to the audio, 3D visuals and art departments on EQ2. Job well done there - very impressive. Pity about the flawed gameplay mechanics seemingly screwing it all up for many <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[tennj]

<DIV>Yea, it was really nice to log on and recieve sapping salvo.  I played all day and was able to blast that, and nill one right after another.  I was not really sure what game I was playing since I was doing "nuker" damage and was having a great time playing.  Everything was cool, I still thought nill should have an upgrade to it's damage because of it being our second best nuke and well, just gimped to hell. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I logged back in yesterday and tried to solo a blue mob in rivervale and just about got owned with salvo being on the same   timer.  Now, I have yet another spell that will sit in my book and never get used, and it's a good spell too.  I finished up the writ I was working on and started an assasin alt to try to cheer me up.  It worked.</DIV>

[Kaz]

Personally I would like to see more parses from people. I find it hard to take opinions at face value without at least SOME effort to substantiate those claims or without at least seeing that the person is basing their argument on real data rather than what they've gleaned from friends or message boards. I parse every fight and my average DPS when combining my logs at the end of each night is always above 70dps at lvl 40 using adept 3 Nil Distortion, Adept 3 Dark Pyre, Master I Steal Breath, and now our upgraded Noxious Bolt (I forget the name) that I chose as trait/whatever.I combined my log file from the last 3 days. The only person that has gone above my DPS was a level 40 wizard whos average dps from last nights group was 73dps. He also was using adept 3's What I am NOT certain of is if he was using the Icespear nuke that was just put on the same timer as his BoFs, if so then his DPS was inflated. Now unless EQcompanion is missing some area of damage like poisons from rogues etc then I really don't see the trend that people are screaming about of us not being able to keep up in DPS. Do things really get drastically different after lvl 40? I would really like to hear of some parsing done by people who ARE above lvl 40. And not just parses from Burst DPS or small samples. You need to use parsed log files covering periods of hours and combined to average out special timed abilities like the Assassin's Condemning Blade which at lvl 41 will be an added 1-1.5k of damage (on a 5 minute timer), which can be abused to inflate a parse if one was so inclined.P.S. My max hit so far is 748 with a dirge in my group using Nil Distortion. Dark Pyre adept 3 hits solidly in the 250's range and doesn't seem to have as big of a damage variance as our distortion lines. It can also hit up to 300 at lvl 40 and that's a big damage add considering how quickly you can chain it in. Sometimes I hit with Adept 3 Nil Distortion consecutively for low 400's. THAT shouldn't be happening imo, the damage variance on Nil Distortion is too large, it needs to have more cost-certainty and if there truly is a needed damage upping to our class I would rather have it in this way than a raised max hit cap.<p>Message Edited by Kaziq on <span class=date_text>01-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:09 PM</span>

[JuanOr]

<DIV>I don't mind being two shot by orange ^^ or even yellow ^^ mob. I just think we should have damage that offsets our inability to take damage. It doesn't appear this is the case. At any level, why grp a pure damage dealer that can't surive aggro when you can have another class fit the role that can also take damage. I already see that as a problem when getting groups at level 25ish. I may be way off base, but I seem  to notice it when "lfg".</DIV>

[Kaz]

NM! Buggy board.<p>Message Edited by Kaziq on <span class=date_text>01-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:49 PM</span>

[flesh]

Please add your support to this thread:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=15753&view=by_date_ascending&page=1Edit: Can't get the link to actually link. Cut&Paste =)<p>Message Edited by flesh on <span class=date_text>01-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:27 PM</span>

[!DotU!_{Voltron}]

I don't want Warlock to be the FOTM class like SWG became...On the other hand, I would like to be effective in combat with our nukes...

[Malevolent]

<DIV>I've posted this in a few other threads, but I'm not sure if you guys have been checking those boards. I feel I am in a better position than many to discuss about the shortcomings of the warlock class and felt the need to have my thoughts shared:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>I haven't logged or parsed anything. I don't know what my DPS is. What I DO KNOW is that my main is a level 50 warlock. I have been level 50 for a week or so and feel that I can be of assistance for getting the sorcerer classes (wiz/warlock) fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Although some of you may feel insulted from some of the things I'm about to say... I'm not here to make a feel good post. I'm not here to be in the million wizard march that wants to nerf other classes and uberfy our class. I'm here because I want the game to be balanced. I want to have fun playing the game and I want to feel like I contribute to my main group and guild events.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The truth is that the level 23 Wizard and Warlock DD spells, Dark Distortion and Ball of Fire (I think?) cap out in damage at level 32. The next DD spell the classes get is at level 37. Any wizard or warlock lower than level 37 complaining about their DPS is muttering utter BS. Nothing in the low level to early mid level game is broken or unbalanced. You guys are choke artists trying to get the class more strength than it should have for balance reasons. Simple as that. Its at level 37 that the problems begin. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 37, the new DD spell (Nil Distortion and Ball of Flames) does less damage than its previous spell in the line (Dark Distortion and Ball of Fire). It costs more mana, is on the same recast timer, and does LESS damage. Ok, so the reasoning behind that is that the spell is orange and you need to level up more to get the damage to improve right? Anyone who had that train of thought is flat out ignorant. Fighter and scout abilities don't do less damage than previous ones just because they're orange, why should ours? You're using a level 23 DD spell for 14 levels, get a new one, and it does less damage... because its orange? Your DD spell damage has been capped since level 32 when the spells skill level maxes out. Thats 5 levels without a DPS increase for your main DD line, and now your new one does less damage than the level 23 one. You think about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now I've played it off, kept with my main group, gained a few more levels... say I'm about level 42. Nil Distortion is still doing less damage, or maybe roughly equal damage, to Dark Distortion... for over 1/3 more power cost. I am now level 42 using a level 23 DD spell. I am closing on 50% of my characters total life where I've been using the same spell for my main source of damage. Level some more, get to level 48. The pet spell Netheros is broken, does not attack or cast or do anything to be blunt. It costs mana and a nil crystal to cast... and it sits there looking goofy. Test out Nil Distortion again, oh wow! It does about 5-10% more damage for 30% more mana cost (130 compared to 181 power cost). So now I am level 48 and I am still using a level 23 DD spell as my main source of damage due to efficiency reasons because even though the level 37 DD does slightly more damage (and I is blue con now btw, not orange anymore) it is terribly inefficient with mana to even bother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jumping ahead to level 50, my DPS goes up probably at least 20% because the level 50 DD is on a different spell timer than the previous level 23/37 DD spells. The problem is, it still only does as much damage as I expected the level 37 DD to do at level 50, and it costs tons of mana and is on an insanely long recast timer. Sure it helps some because at this point the level 23 DD seems to take almost no mana to cast, but its no where near "balanced". 20% DPS increase from level 32 to 50 is what you consider "balanced" for a DPS class?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact is, wizard and warlock DPS simply does not improve from level 32 until level 50. That is 18 levels before any improvement in DPS whatsoever. Zip, Zero, None. Nada. No DPS increase at all. I guess you could count using the level 37 DD spells for slightly more damage a small increase... but what you add in DPS you lose in efficiency. In my opinion is that in an efficient group, the extra mana costs would end up lowering your DPS soon enough. Now lets add to these facts some others. I'm not sure how this effects wizards, but for warlocks things get even worse. Sure our DPS doesnt increase for 18 levels, and our level 48 pet spell is broken.... but we do not have evac, the adept for our level 50 DD does not drop in the game as far as I'm concerned (everyone knows that Ice Comet drops), the highest sage on my server isn't even level 30 yet (I've never seen one at least) because the tradeskill is nearly impossible to level, and level 50 group 2x encounters drop equipment for level 42 characters. Bracelets in Runnyeye off single group encounters in the mid 30s drop level 44 required items. WHAT IS SOE THINKING? Grey mobs in a dungeon we hunted in over 15 levels ago drop higher level items than in Permafrost and Solusek's Eye? All I can possibly think of to say is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing is wrong with wizards before level 37. Its after that the problems start. I have my friends and guild members to thank for making it as far as I have. God knows what its going to be like in the next month before SOE realizes how badly wizards and warlocks are in the higher levels and actually take action to improve it. Godspeed to all of you still trying to level and get groups until then, you're going to need all the help you can get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yuengling Lager of Invictus</DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Innothule Server</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Dae]

Your post makes the problems very clear. Thanks for taking the time to write all that out.What would be your personal suggestions for fixing it? Just increase damage on Nil Distortion?What about the Blaze and Suffocating Breath line? Does the Blaze line end after the horrifically useless Hemia's? Does the Suffocating Breath upgrade scale appropriately?I'm only 26 myself but there's no way I'm going to focus on levelling my Warlock if this is what I've got to look forward to.Why does Dark Disortion cap out at level 32? That means we have 5 levels with zero improvements to our dps without taking into account the level 37+ problems...How much damage does Noxious Bolt do? Is Dark Emanations just an upgrade to Incinerate?It just seems to me we need more clearly defined spell lines. I'm not really sure what upgrades or doesn't stack with what just looking at the OGaming spell list.

[Nirvy]

YupI hit 37 This morning.Was very disapointed to see my shiny new Nil Distortion Adept I doing much much much less damage than Dark Dist Adept III and Bellegere's. Its rediculous that i'll have to wait until the high mid 40's for it to out damage a lvl 30 and 33 spell <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DarkSyph]

<DIV>Spell Name          Min Dmg     Max Dmg        Hits         Total         Avg         All Time High     </DIV> <DIV>Dark Emanations           45                 80      1017       50844      49.99                          81<BR>Incinerate                        14                 30        609       13992      22.98                          30<BR>Steal Breath                    72               104      1117     100816      90.26                       104<BR>Dark Distortion              170               618        666     307818    462.19                       618<BR>Suffocating Breath          53               287         681    132818    195.03                       287<BR>Noxious Bolt                    79               184        435       60641    139.40                      185<BR>Aura of Darkness            70                 88          16         1243      77.69                        88<BR>Frozen Manacles             61                85            7            481      68.71                        85<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everything at Adept1, Dark Distortion at Adept3, Steal Breath at Master1. Started parsing I think for a 2 or 3 days in Rivervale, lvl 36. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blaze line ended when you became a Warlock I think.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And no, Dark E is not an upgrade for Incinerate, they stack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was grouped in RV with a 37 warlock who has the Nil Dis Adept 3. Not much difference in damage and through total damage done (I dont trust dps, just looked at total damage done), I do slightly more if not comparable damage. Which is kinda screwed up when ya see Nil Dis Ad3 and Dark Dis Ad3 doing the same average damage. *sigh*<BR><BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by DarkSyphon on <span class=date_text>01-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 AM</span>

[Farsee]

OK...I have a 36 Warlock, and i feel like commenting...Prior to getting to lvl 23 i was really worried that i chose the wrong profession, Wizard seemed to be the big DD one.When i hit lvl 23, i had Adept1 DarkDistortion waiting for me, and slapped it on some Mobs and was doing really nice damage.Late 20's Wizards were hitting on average much higher than my Dark Distortion, however they had very few debuffs and Dots. When i slapped my Debuffs and Dots on the mob and started nuking, i was doing LOADS more dmg to the mobs than the Wizard who was getting resists frequently.After that big patch, i was slightly annoyed that :- All my HP > MP conversions are on the same timer- Bellengeres Sapping Salvo does more dmg than Dark Dist but are on the same timer + doesn't count for Highest Magical Hit on EQ2Players.comWhat i notice now :- Warlocks use a hell of alot of Power, to just to say match the dmg output of a Wizard using less Power.- Warlocks when fully debuffed the mob will get sufficiently less resists than a Wizard will.- Warlocks kill named mobs easier in group situations than Wizards.What i am looking forward to :- Nil Distortion ...- The Group Mob to Power Conversion SpellSo in short, Wizards do big damage, but are resisted more frequently. They use less Power per Damage inflicted, however they need to fire more times due to Resists which just about comes on par with the Warlock needing to debuff and apply dots in terms of Power and Dmg.

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WaachBack wrote:<BR> <DIV>People have been complaining since lvl 20...you cant deny that...</DIV> <DIV>People will never be happy I guess <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by WaachBack on <SPAN class=date_text>01-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:26 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Read it and weep, there is nothing to debate anymore.  Feel free to stick your head in the sand and pretend this doesn't exist.  </P> <P>I've discovered the real problem with the tier2 and later spells (for all classes.)  It obviously affects the casters most since they don't get increases from weapons like the melee classes do.  Still it's a problem for everyone. </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=17531" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=17531</A></P><p>Message Edited by killzone on <span class=date_text>01-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 AM</span>

[BritishKnight20]

<DIV>Deja vu... I really thought i'd left this all behind when i quit EQ1. I played a high end shadowknight for 4 years and class balancing was what ultimately caused me to stop playing. I wanted to create a character in EQ2 that would be exempt from this, be fun to play, and ultimately scale well in power. I've recently levelled my Warlock to 24 and it seems to me, i've reached a pinnacle of power, as all I have to look forward to now is a copy and paste of spells I already own. I really didn't want to make a negative post, the reason why all of us chose this class was based on the potential we saw in it. I'm really tempted to shelve the warlock until this extended beta is over, or start a guardian or assassin.</DIV>

[WaachBack]

All I have said was 1. People have been complaning since lvl 20....true. 2. I am happy with my Warlock....true. Something wrong with stating that? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Malevolent]

<DIV>Whats also true is that you haven't reached a high enough level to be experiencing or make valid comments on the problems those of us with sincere arguments are complaining about.</DIV>

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WaachBack wrote:<BR>All I have said was 1. People have been complaning since lvl 20....true. 2. I am happy with my Warlock....true. Something wrong with stating that? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>The only complaints at level 20 were from before they fixed dark distortion.  During beta they balanced Ball of Fire AFTER it was already copied to Ball of Flames.  Apparently they didn't fix dark distortion.  All that complaining as you call it went away. </P> <P>There is a difference between complaining and pointing out errors.  I suppose if we all lived in your world we would all be driving cars with different size wheels and doors which don't fit properly.  But hey, I'm happy with my lopsided car so don't you complain about it.</P>

[WaachBack]

<DIV>Well, thats were your wrong, *I* am totally happy with my KIA, I know one day, maybe we would get a BMW. But for now, its better then catching the bus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing is, SOE knows whats going down......they just dont care to fix it. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I do also how that someday they *fix* us. But, In the mean time I will try to look on the bright side and hope for the best. I really really hate thinking "hmm maybe I should reroll"  "hmm maybe I should ditch my warlock and make another character" ya know? I have always loved this class and always will, even if it has "4 diffrent wheels" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV><p>Message Edited by WaachBack on <span class=date_text>01-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span>

[Covvo]

<P>This is an extremely precise post from someone's who been there and done that...tks Male</P> <P>I am closing in on 40 and getting anxiety attacks from what I've been reading !  I dont know if it will take them long to give us some help...but I hope the mods or devs have read this and are looking into the situation.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MalevolentZ3 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I've posted this in a few other threads, but I'm not sure if you guys have been checking those boards. I feel I am in a better position than many to discuss about the shortcomings of the warlock class and felt the need to have my thoughts shared:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't logged or parsed anything. I don't know what my DPS is. What I DO KNOW is that my main is a level 50 warlock. I have been level 50 for a week or so and feel that I can be of assistance for getting the sorcerer classes (wiz/warlock) fixed.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Although some of you may feel insulted from some of the things I'm about to say... I'm not here to make a feel good post. I'm not here to be in the million wizard march that wants to nerf other classes and uberfy our class. I'm here because I want the game to be balanced. I want to have fun playing the game and I want to feel like I contribute to my main group and guild events.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The truth is that the level 23 Wizard and Warlock DD spells, Dark Distortion and Ball of Fire (I think?) cap out in damage at level 32. The next DD spell the classes get is at level 37. Any wizard or warlock lower than level 37 complaining about their DPS is muttering utter BS. Nothing in the low level to early mid level game is broken or unbalanced. You guys are choke artists trying to get the class more strength than it should have for balance reasons. Simple as that. Its at level 37 that the problems begin. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 37, the new DD spell (Nil Distortion and Ball of Flames) does less damage than its previous spell in the line (Dark Distortion and Ball of Fire). It costs more mana, is on the same recast timer, and does LESS damage. Ok, so the reasoning behind that is that the spell is orange and you need to level up more to get the damage to improve right? Anyone who had that train of thought is flat out ignorant. Fighter and scout abilities don't do less damage than previous ones just because they're orange, why should ours? You're using a level 23 DD spell for 14 levels, get a new one, and it does less damage... because its orange? Your DD spell damage has been capped since level 32 when the spells skill level maxes out. Thats 5 levels without a DPS increase for your main DD line, and now your new one does less damage than the level 23 one. You think about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now I've played it off, kept with my main group, gained a few more levels... say I'm about level 42. Nil Distortion is still doing less damage, or maybe roughly equal damage, to Dark Distortion... for over 1/3 more power cost. I am now level 42 using a level 23 DD spell. I am closing on 50% of my characters total life where I've been using the same spell for my main source of damage. Level some more, get to level 48. The pet spell Netheros is broken, does not attack or cast or do anything to be blunt. It costs mana and a nil crystal to cast... and it sits there looking goofy. Test out Nil Distortion again, oh wow! It does about 5-10% more damage for 30% more mana cost (130 compared to 181 power cost). So now I am level 48 and I am still using a level 23 DD spell as my main source of damage due to efficiency reasons because even though the level 37 DD does slightly more damage (and I is blue con now btw, not orange anymore) it is terribly inefficient with mana to even bother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jumping ahead to level 50, my DPS goes up probably at least 20% because the level 50 DD is on a different spell timer than the previous level 23/37 DD spells. The problem is, it still only does as much damage as I expected the level 37 DD to do at level 50, and it costs tons of mana and is on an insanely long recast timer. Sure it helps some because at this point the level 23 DD seems to take almost no mana to cast, but its no where near "balanced". 20% DPS increase from level 32 to 50 is what you consider "balanced" for a DPS class?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact is, wizard and warlock DPS simply does not improve from level 32 until level 50. That is 18 levels before any improvement in DPS whatsoever. Zip, Zero, None. Nada. No DPS increase at all. I guess you could count using the level 37 DD spells for slightly more damage a small increase... but what you add in DPS you lose in efficiency. In my opinion is that in an efficient group, the extra mana costs would end up lowering your DPS soon enough. Now lets add to these facts some others. I'm not sure how this effects wizards, but for warlocks things get even worse. Sure our DPS doesnt increase for 18 levels, and our level 48 pet spell is broken.... but we do not have evac, the adept for our level 50 DD does not drop in the game as far as I'm concerned (everyone knows that Ice Comet drops), the highest sage on my server isn't even level 30 yet (I've never seen one at least) because the tradeskill is nearly impossible to level, and level 50 group 2x encounters drop equipment for level 42 characters. Bracelets in Runnyeye off single group encounters in the mid 30s drop level 44 required items. WHAT IS SOE THINKING? Grey mobs in a dungeon we hunted in over 15 levels ago drop higher level items than in Permafrost and Solusek's Eye? All I can possibly think of to say is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing is wrong with wizards before level 37. Its after that the problems start. I have my friends and guild members to thank for making it as far as I have. God knows what its going to be like in the next month before SOE realizes how badly wizards and warlocks are in the higher levels and actually take action to improve it. Godspeed to all of you still trying to level and get groups until then, you're going to need all the help you can get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yuengling Lager of Invictus</DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Innothule Server</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT>

[Polyphem]

I have to agree with Malevolent's post. I am only lvl 44 and don't know anything about the lvl 50 dd spell, but at lvl 44 it's already frustrating. You keep on casting the lvl 23 spell dark distortion and don't care much about lvl 37 nil distortion (even if it's on adept III) because nil distortion uses A LOT more power without having a significantly bigger effect.So you keep on casting that greyed out spell while other classes use their cool new skills and spells and outdamage us by a large amount.I stopped my warlock at 44 and won't play him again until these things get fixed. My advise atm for people thinking to create a warlock. DON'T DO IT ! You will be frustrated once you get past Level 37.If you want to be a caster choose an illusionists, mezzes are always nice, or one of the pet classes for soloing reasons. If you want to be a damagedealer choose any of the scout classes. Or choose a healer or tank, they will always be needed in any group.

[Victicu]

<DIV>my Nil Distortion Adept 3 reached mastery today...i wanna cry...very seldom does it break 800 damage...extremely sad upgrade when dark distortion adept 3 gets in the 600's easily, and the lvl 30 training spell gets 650+ easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>only thing i have to look forward too now is the adept 1 devastation i have in my bank...and i feel i will be less than impressed...</DIV>

[flesh]

Adept I Devastation is actually quite nice. Hits up to 1200. The issue is the recast timer, in which you can cast three Nil Distortions. I guess it's a solid DPS boost though, so I can't complain in that regard.

[Farsee]

so it takes 3 times as long to recharge?Does it blank out the other DDs?So infact if thats right, its better off using 3 x Nils instead of 1 x Devastation.