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IllusiveThoughts
10-07-2006, 02:32 AM
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>The Basic Raiding wizards guide.  (complete)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>It’s time I shared some of the knowledge I’ve gained (hopefully I can remember the past 2 years) of wizardry and how this can be used to benefit those wizards who are already raiding, or wish to start raiding.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Some of these tips will also be useful in group and solo situations but I’ll try to cover those in another topic.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Let me preface this with, no class is easy, there is no I win button in eq2.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If you want to accel at any class you will need to work hard for it, also understand that it will take time to learn the basics before you can start to push the envelope, and you will die many times before you get it just right.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Agro control</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Agro is simply a term used in everquest.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This means if your fighting a mob and you do more damage than the tank ‘s taunts/dps can handle, the mob stops hating the tank and starts hating you, thus you “got” agro. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This is by far one of the biggest issues to tackle for a wizard, and also even more so for our warlock bretheren.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It is my firm belief that the sony developers do not ever want sorcerors to have the same level of ditching agro as scout classes currently have.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Once we accept and understand that we can try to work around it with the tools we do have in game.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>One of the basic points to understand is that 1 point of damage = 1 point of hate.<SPAN>  </SPAN>And 1 point of “de-agro” = 1 point less hate.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Think of de-agro spells as reverse nukes, in that they decrease your hate gain instead of add to it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Hate reduction / transfer<SPAN>  </SPAN>buffs:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>These are either group only or cross raid castable buffs.<SPAN>  </SPAN>By cross raid that means it can be cast by a member on the raid regardless if they are in your group or not.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Cross raid castable buffs</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Coercer- Harmonious link – reduces up to 28% passive hate gain</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Illusionist- Synergism – up to 48% chance to proc 400-500 dmg (when you cast a spell) and de-agro 600-700 threat.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Brigand – Appeal for mercy, intercepts 3 hits and reduces threat by 1 position each time the recipient of the buff is struck, and also has a large de-agro component.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My brigand is not lvl 70 yet so I don’t know what the final ability is called or how much de-agro it gives.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Group only buffs</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Paly - Amends – transfers up to<SPAN>  </SPAN>41% hate to the paly</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Paly – sigil of heroism – transfers 32% of the group’s hate to the paly for a short duration.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Guardian - Moderate – reduces up to 38% passive hate gain</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Troubador - Alins calming serenade – reduces up to 40% passive hate gain –group wide</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Coercer/Illusionist – empethatic aura (could be wrong on the achievement name) – reduces up to 7.2% passive hate – group wide.(rank <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Ranger – Attack hawk.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Siphons hate gain from group members when the hawk successfully hits the mob.<SPAN>  </SPAN>% of transfer to hawk is not listed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Wizards have the following spells at their disposal to reduce agro</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Wizard - Anomalism – 10% chance to proc up to 91 power (to the player the buff is on and also to the wizard) when player who has anomalism cast on them is struck by mele weapon.<SPAN>  In addition</SPAN> transfers up to 4% of the wizards hate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Wizard – Ceace – reduces threat by 1300-1500 points</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Wizard – concussive – reduces threat by 1500 – 1900 to target encounter</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Wizard – gargoyle pet – reduces passive hate gain by 2.5% (1 handed staff req. to summon gargoyle pet, this is your first achievement ability)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Let’s discuss the wizard de-agro spells:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Anomalism- </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>4% hate transfer at master 1 and currently does not scale up to higher %’s at higher level spells, the first one at lvl 32 is 2% for apprentice 4 and 3% for adept1- 3 and 4% for master 1 and the same for the higher level upgrades.</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>In reality if you get to put this spell on the main tank, you get to do 8% more hate before you will pull agro, because your loosing 4% hate and the MT is gaining 4% hate.<SPAN>  </SPAN>That’s a 8% hate gap.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This spell needs further tweaking, but that’s best left for another thread.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>In addition, post EOF the buff will proc both the wizard and the person struck by mele weapon up to 91 power.  Consider yourself lucky if you get to put this on the main tank in a raid it does not stack with the warlock equivilant, and will get overwritten by it.  (so sneak it in just before a fight so the warlock doesn't notice <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Cease-</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Cease is a fast casting interrupt / stifle / de-agro spell. (0.5sec cast)<SPAN>  </SPAN>It has a relatively short recast timer of 25 seconds, and typically can be cast two times per fight.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Make sure you use this when ever it refreshes.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Also the Interrupt will affect epic targets, the stifle portion however will not.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Also post EOF this ability became even more useful, its de-agro amounts were more than doubled.  On high agro risk fights I use this extensively.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Concussive-</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Concussive is a long casting (2.0 sec) de-agro spell and is on a medium recast timer of 30 seconds.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Concussive was changed to be a powerful encounter based de-agro and interrupt.  The requirement of casting another spell was removed and it is now just a 2second cast time de-agro.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>This spell is now very helpful in avoiding uncessesary aoe agro from respectivly weak aoe agro generating tanks.  In those situations I end up casting concussive quite often especially after one aoe to ensure I dont pull agro from an off tank mob.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Gargoyle pet</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This is a wizards first achievement ability, and you need to equip a 1 handed staff and summon the pet or zone to get the gargoyle pet.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The pet reduces your passive hate gain by 2.5%</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Lets go into a little bit more detail about how some of the spells stack.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>2 hate transfer spells will not stack.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Example you have amends on you and you try to cast Ammolism on the paly or even on another fighter, the most recent buff will over-ride the previous one.  IE paly casts amends on you, first then you cast anomalisim on another tank, you will only be transferring 3% hate to the other tank, and 0% hate to the paly from amends.  In general just do not use this spell if you have amends cast on you.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>2 or more Passive hate reduction spells stack.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Example your grouped with a troubadour and they have alins calming serenade up 40% passive hate reduction, and the coercer gives you harmonious link 23% passive hate reduction and the guardian in the group gives you moderate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>That equals out to 101% passive hate reduction.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I realize 101% may seem confusing as how can you do 1% less hate than 100%.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The short answer is you cant.<SPAN>  </SPAN>There is obviously a cap on hate reduction, but since we can not see our hate gain in game we do not know where the cap is.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I can tell you however that I believe it to be close to 100%.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Hate reduction Items.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Skywatcher robe</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This comes from an easy ring event in tenerborus tangle at the top back end of the island, the named is on a 2.5 hour spawn.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It has a random chance to span the “skywatcher” or “a skywatcher”, the named is The skywatcher and always drops a legendary chest, with either monk shoulders or the mage robe.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>It has a 20% chance to proc a 600 point de-agro when you cast a hostile spell, the robe procs do show up in the log but trying to count them is pretty tough to do.<SPAN>  </SPAN>In reality, this robe gives the wizard and average 120 threat reduction per spell cast, assuming it procs the given % in a fight.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It is a nice item to have for extra de-agro when you do not have any of the hate reduction buffs from other classes available.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>There is also a relatively easy to obtain glove hate reduction proc item from Nizara.<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>fingerless gloves of the quiet, the description is currently not working correctly but it reduces 300 threat and has a 10% chance to proc. Which works out to 30 threat per spell cast average.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I’ve seen other items in game but those only drop from raid mobs, and are rare drops.<SPAN>  </SPAN>No raid dropped item I have seen has as high a proc and % as the skywatcher robe, covet that like golum’s precious. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Okay so you should have a basic understanding of agro, the buffs available to you, and how to reduce your own agro without outside help.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Agro is tied to dps, so we’ll have to talk about situations related to dps and the kinds of buffs on you.<SPAN>  </SPAN>A lot of this is trial and error, and I’ll try to give specific examples, but you must remember that not every class on a raid is 100% attentive, 100% of the time.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Which means anything can happen and not everyone at the raid will perform their max potential all the time.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Main tank</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Get to know your main tank on the raid, spend some time grouping with them, purposely over nuke on various types of encounters, not to [Removed for Content] them off, but to find the “threashhold”<SPAN>  </SPAN>every time you pull agro, take note of the spells you used, when you started casting, and what type of encounter it was and what hate reduction buffs were on you, and any hate gain buffs on the tank.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Advanced Combat Tracker – and how it relates to agro control</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>ACT has a feature called mini window.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You can see your dps compared to the group/raid in real time, you can set it to update every second.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This is a great tool for wizards.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Someone coined the term “Hate – O – Meter” on the eq2 forums and I think its fitting to use.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Example 1:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>single target named started nuking on pull, opened with rending icicles, protoferno, surging tempest, freehand sorcery, then ice nova, pulled agro, I had no hate reduction on me, I was not wearing my skywatcher robe, and I did not have my hate reduction gargoyle pet out, and I did not use concussive or ceace.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>In the first example it is a classic case of over agro.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You started nuking before the tank had any time to build up any hate, so you were riding the edge of agro.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Rending icicles, is low dmg and debuff, so you were okay with using that early, protoferno is a dumbfire pet, and his agro will not count towards you until the pet dies or expires, surging tempest is a low dmg long duration dot / stun, and generally doesnot generate much agro.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Your problem was using freehand sorcery and ice nova 6 seconds into the fight without using any de-agros, or letting the MT build up any hate.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This is what caused you to pull agro.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Example2:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>single target named, started nuking 4 seconds into fight, opened with rending icicles, protoferno, surging tempest, concussive, ceace, freehand sorcery, ice nova,<SPAN>  </SPAN>surge of flames, ball of lava, irradiate, firey convultions, firestorm, sunstrike, ball of lava, pulled agro, no hate reduction buffs on me, no hate gain on the MT</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>In the second example your early use of Ice nova is what eventually caused your agro.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Ball of lava should be considered a big nuke, because casting this spell will actually raise your dps on a raid and not maintain or lower it. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>From these two examples you learned that with no hate reduction on you, and no hate gain on the MT, you can not cast your big nukes until the mob is nearly dead, or risk pulling agro as soon as it hits, or a few spell casts later.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>These are the kinds of things you’ll need to learn while grouped with your main tank.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Once you figure out where the agro limits are in a group setting with no buffs, you will be able to start at that level of damage on the raid and go up from there until you find a safe spot to dps at.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>From my experience typical raid equipped tanks can hold 1100-1300 dps from me with no hate gain buffs on them, and no hate reduction on me.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Of course your milage may vary due to the player playing the tank, and their gear / skill, the Con of the mob (higher mobs resist taunts and spells/ca’s lowering the MT’s hate) and of course your own skill in controlling your agro, knowing what to use and when.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Typically if you find your drawing agro too much while testing the limits of your MT, try doing these things differently or a combination of all 3 and see what works best</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Give a longer time after the pull </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>before your first spell cast, this can range from 1-8 seconds, some tanks have hate over time, others have high instant hate gaining abilities, this will usually vary depending on the tank.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This concept is critical for wizards to understand.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Do not worry too much because you can still do great damage even if you have to wait the longest before you can do it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>Try to time your big nukes right after using your two de-agros.<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>In the haze of battle, this can get tricky, but generally don’t start out with using your de-agros, because if you don’t have any agro on the mob to take away using a de-agro will just put you on the mobs hate list and give you agro instead.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Typically I wait until I cast 4-5 spells before using ceace and concussive.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Some sorcerors pre-cast concussive before the tank pulls, and then open up with rending icicles, and start their chain.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This combo can work if you have at least one hate reduction buff on you, and the main tank has one hate gain buff on him, again though starting early you ride the fine line of agro, and one good roll (or bad depending on your point of view) of the dice could get you a critical hit and poof your face down enjoying the halflings view of the raid.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Put on all your hate reduction buffs/gear</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Summon your gargoyle pet</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Put anomalism on a tank (should do this every raid unless you have amends anyways)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Equip the skywatcher robe and any other de-agro proccing items you have.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>DPS</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Quite simply the term means Damage Per Second.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You’ll see this term used quite often in the world of everquest2, and I’m going to refer to it often.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your dps is heavily dependant on several factors:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>The raid set up and your group set up</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>The classes on the raid</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your knowledge of your spells</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your spell resistances</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your spell quality.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your gear.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>The raid set up and your group set up.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Most importantly every raid needs to have a solid MT(main tank) capable of holding decent agro.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Hate gain buffs do not make a horrible tank a good one, the raid will still suffer without this key player.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Secondary is having proper hate gain buffs on the MT such as putting a Dirge AND a Coercer in the main tank group for maximum passive hate gain.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If your finding this is still not enough, putting a hate transfer class like an assassin in the MT group will provide additional hate gain for the raid.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This allows the main tank to hold more agro than normal and gives the raid the freedom to max dps most encounters.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>Your group set up is important and the classes on the raid.<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>You want to always be paired up with a troubadour.<SPAN>  </SPAN>They do 3 things for you, increase your dps and reduce your hate, and increase your power regen.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>If you don’t have a troubadour you want to have amends put on you</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>If you don’t have amends you want to have moderate from a guardian put on you<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>If you have an illusionist beg plead, grovel for synergism from them it will give you up to 8% more dps on a single encounter.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Knowledge of spells</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your spell casting order is also important in a raid, it does 2 things very well, you can modify it based on agro, and when you do not have agro worries you can do super stupid stuff like the following chain on an aoe encounter and not pull agro:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>Frigid gift, glacial winds, freehand sorcery, fusion, surge of flames, forge of ro, firestorm,<SPAN>   </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This combo can spike a wizard to over 5500 dps and if you get a high # critical hit on fusion up to 7k dps.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The trick is the raid has to be set up perfect (2 hate gain classes on mt, and 3 de-agro classes on you)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Here’s my typical spell chain when I have at least 2 hate reduction class buffs on me and 2 hate buffing classes on MT. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Single target:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Pre-cast frost shield on mt</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Cast magic debuff hex doll</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Frigid gift</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Rending icicles</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Surging tempest</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Freehand sorcery</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Ice nova</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Forge of ro</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Surge of flames</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Protoferno</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Ball of lava</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Incapaciate</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Irradiate</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Firey convultions</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>firestorm </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Fusion (if its up)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Then its just a matter of spaming ball of lava, irradiate, rending icicles, firestorm, icesheild, and firey convultions until the mob is dead.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Dps will vary from 1000-2400 depending on crits / spell quality / and the good ole random # generator</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>AOE encounter:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Frigid gift</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Glacial winds</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Electrifiying flash (if more than 4 mobs)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Free hand sorc</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Fusion</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Forge of ro</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Surge of flames</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Firestorm</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Glacial winds</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Ice nova</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Ball of lava</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Incapacitate</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Firestorm</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>irradiate</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>glacialwinds</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>usually by the 2nd glacial winds the first mob is dead, and if it’s a 2 mob encounter switch up to the single target dps chain, if there are still 2 mobs in the encounter your going to want to continue to use glacial winds and firestorm when ever they have refreshed along with prioritizing ball of lava until your down to 1 mob then swap to single target mode again.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>One of the biggest tricks to getting good dps, is to not leave any holes in your spell chains, at not time should you be waiting to cast something, you should always be casting a damage spell or de-agro spell, or health to power converstion spell.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Never stop chaining yourspells.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Always prioritize ball of lava for single targets rotate your spells around so that you can use it right as it refreshes<SPAN>  </SPAN>Ice nova and fusion are just bonuses, that should also be used as soon as possible.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Always prioritize glacial winds, forge of ro, and firestorm for aoe targets. Ice nova and fusion are just bonuses, that should also be used as soon as possible.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Spell resistances</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Believe it or not your own spell resistances will afftect your dps.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Mobs like the Uncaged alzid, Essence of fear, ect have abilities that stop you from casting spells these particular ones use Fear to make that happen, but most of these aoe spells are resistable, and if you buff up the correct spell resistance, you will not be Feared and can continue to do more dps than the guy next to you running away like a chicken with his head cut off.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So puff out your chest, and hold your chin high, make sure you don’t get feared.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Some raid mobs also have aoe stuns, and stifles.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Most of these can be avoided by proximity, some can be resisted with the correct resists, same reasoning as trying to avoid the fear.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If you resist the stun that allows you to continue pumping out dps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Spell quality</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This has an impact on your spells getting outright resisted or not.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Raiding in ap4 spells will get you sent to hell in a handbasket, do everything you can to get all your damage spells at the minimum of adept 3.<SPAN>  </SPAN>harvest non stop or farm solo mobs for a few days to get the rares you need.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>If an spell gets resisted, you just wasted that spells cast time duration, instead of doing potential dps.<SPAN>  </SPAN>To illustrate this point, Firedrakes in the Labororatory of Lord vyemm are highly resistant to magical attacks.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My dps plummets from an average 1500 or so per mob to 900-1100 dps.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Largely due to spells getting resisted.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Having ap4 spells vs adep 3 spells would have the same effect from outright resists alone.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Not to mention the extra damage you get from upgrading the spell as well.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This isn’t about being “uber” its about doing what you do best which is damage, and if adept 3 is the best you can get then don’t feel bad about it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Your gear.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I placed gear at the bottom of the list because in my opinion it has the least amount of impact on your damage(assuming your at the int cap).<SPAN>  </SPAN>If your not attentive and chaining spells, using the most optimum spell chains, and using ap4 spells, your damage no matter how good your gear is will be horrible.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I’m not going to give out names but I have raided with fully fabled wizards in much better gear than I and I can still out parse them.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Yes gear is flashy, Yes gear is a way to display your uberness, and YES gear can help your dps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This subject will probably be in high debate after Echoes of fadwer comes out because the stat caps are going to be changing, and we’ll have to experiment around to see whats more beneficial, proc gear or gear with more int.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I've done some extensive post EOF testing in this area.  I've found that the following proc items will improve your dps even if other items are available that have up to 10points more intelligence, provided you are already past 580 int.   You must realize that 580 int is sort of the old break even point on the new curves.  Its where you get really close to the damage range on your spells from pre EOF to post EOF.  So getting to 580 int should be your first concearn.  Also the damage bonus slows down quite considerably past 700 int.  the jump from 600-700 is quite large, but the bonus from 700-800 is about half as much.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>There are tons of damage procc’ing items that you will come across, I’m going to list the basic ones you should have for raiding, and quite possibly the easiest to get.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Grizzlefazzles walking stick</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This is obtainable on the drednever crash site in the bonemire, and sends you to the den of the devourer.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You kill the final boss mob, and viola, you have a 500-700 pt dmg proc on 10% hostile spells with 27 int and 80 power.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>2 possible augments the fabled encounter de-agro proc that reduces threat by almost 1300, and the other proc that increases your power by 80.  Personally I'd rather have the +power proc to round out this item.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Earring of the invoker</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This is a collection quest reward, buy all 4 if you have too, its worth it.  also consider augmenting this with a +14 int lvl 60 augment for extra dmg/power.  base is 20 int and 65 power with augment its 34 int.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Bone clasped girdle</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>This is a heritage reward from Fear tainted island in tenerborus tangle, talk to sinephobus in the back of the island to start the quest.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This is doable in one day with a dedicated guild group and a crafter level of at least 36.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This belt also debuffs heat/cold in addition to doing damage.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>This item can not be adorned at this time.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>These three items are easy to get and can raise your dps on a zone parse combined by about 3-4% and single fight parses by as much as 8%. Depending on # of procs.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Another thing to focus on is flowing thought gear.<SPAN>  </SPAN>There’s tons of it out there in KOS.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I’ll list the ones that I currently have and use.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Bloodwind bracelet<SPAN>  </SPAN>FT4</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Wristplate of the rancid<SPAN>  </SPAN>FT6</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Xhavix’s gown of glory<SPAN>  </SPAN>procs 90-120 power 1.8 times per minute average. (18-24 flowing througt equivilant)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Relic silk Hat FT8</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Mantle of leadership FT5</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Shadow Slippers FT2</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Mark of awakend intellect FT 5</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Leggsicon The FT4 treasured book from the nest</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Ancient gemmed band FT2 ring </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Silken hands of Creation The FT3 glvoes from SOS</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Adornment of Phophecy The FT3 earring from SOS </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>All those add up to 42 FT + xhavix’s gown which averages 18-24 FT(that doesn’t count towards the cap)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>The Mark, Relic hat, Mantle of leadership, Shadow slippers, are raid drops, the others are easily obtainable, and DO make a difference.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>As I said earlier this will also be debated upon by myself at least once EOF comes out and the stat caps change, because right now with ALL the above gear on I’m about 6 points shy of 510 with taking a grandmaster Int potion.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So I’m sacrificing quite a bit for power regen.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>At this point in time POST EOF, I have not equipped any of my old flowing thought gear.  I have found the sacrifice in dps too great to ignore.  The difference in 506 int vs 680 int(where im at now) is just too great.  At this point in time I'm going to advise all you wizards out there to focus on obtaining as much int as possible.  If you have the ability to adorn some of the NON int items listed on this list with int adornments, I'd highly suggest you do so if you continue to use them.  This works in 2 fold.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>1. the more int you do the better dps you will do. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>2. the more int you have the bigger your power pool will be.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2>I typically now have 8000 power self buffed with about 680 int with my normal gear on(taking a 51 int potion) and approximately 38-44 flowing thought (Xhavixs, relic hat, mantle of leadership, shadow slippers, MOA) I find this combo works very well for me and doesn't really sacrifice int (except for relic hat which only has 20 int but I haven't been lucky with the draco hat dropping so thats all i've got)</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Gear choice can get tricky as you can see, and trying to find the right balance will be up to you to decide.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If you find your going oop try piling on the regen gear, if you find your dieing too much pile on the resist gear.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>There is tons of gear choices out there, and most of it is some kind of compromise for one particular thing or another.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Some of the really nice raid gear for wizards comes off contested mobs or some of the tougher raid mobs and end zone bosses, I’m not going to get into those with this guide because most basic raiding wizards wont see that kind of gear until after EOF and the new slots + aa’s go in. (myself included)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I know theres probably more I can cover here, but my goal was to give someone a starting point, a place of reference if your interested to get into raiding and have no clue what your doing and don’t want to feel like a “total” noob.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Just remember that you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die?<SPAN>  </SPAN>So start getting used to it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>As always I’m open to assistance in game or through the forums.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If you have any questions, comments, concearns, shoot me a tell in game to Illu on mistmoore,and I’ll try to help you out.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Just remember I’m not a veteran raider, and I haven’t done any raids of the harder content like chel, matron, ect, so I wont be of much use if you want to discuss encounters, but I can be of assistance how to help you as a wizard perform better on a raid.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Also feel free to pm me, or post in the forums.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Happy Raiding.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-10-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:27 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:28 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:50 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Edited spelling of Anomalism for you spelling / grammar police natzis</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:41 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:12 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:17 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:47 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:50 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:58 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <span class=date_text>11-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:48 PM</span>

IllusiveThoughts
10-07-2006, 02:33 AM
space reserved for expansion

Nightwo|f
10-07-2006, 03:00 AM
I was under the impression hate transfers only broke when they were looped. Such as a pally casting amends on me, and me casting anomalism on the pally. I've gone several raids while having amends and putting anomalism on a fighter in a different group, and haven't seen much difference (ie: amends breaks, going to pull normally if I dont have it). Granted this is just conjecture on my part, I've not done any tests in a controlled environment.<p>Message Edited by Nightwo|f on <span class=date_text>10-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:00 PM</span>

Didi
10-07-2006, 04:06 AM
<P>Great write up so far, very helpful!  Could I beg and plead however that you fix the spelling of "Anomalism" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Definitely looking forward to the gear tips.</P>

Nethis
10-07-2006, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the guide, Illusive.  I agree with a lot of what you said with the exception of your casting order.  That may be why my DPS sucks, but I'll challenge it anyway.Here's my order:Pre-cast Frost Shield on MTFrigid Gift as the mob approachesProtofernoRending IciclesBallCeaseSurge of FlamesFiery ConvulsionsIrradiateBallConcussiveFreehand / Novarinse and repeat with Rending Icicles when needed, Frost Shield, Ball, Irradiate, Fiery Convulsions.  Cast Nova if it's up, Fusion if it won't get me killed.I might throw in a forge of ro and infero ( don't have firestorm yet.. haha ) but usually, I'm in the back nuking away.I agree with how you're casting Nova early.  If the tank can hold the aggro, you might be able to use it twice in a fight.I need to get myself a T7 Hex doll.I think Protoferno should be casted earlier so that it can fight for its entire duration.I think surging tempest should not be used at all because of its long cast time.  If i'm not mistaken, the stuns of Tempest and Incapacitate don't affect epics so I rarely use them in raids.<div></div>After seeing your parse post that displayed the damage breakdown, I put an emphasis on Ball / Nova / Fusion since they do the most damage.

IllusiveThoughts
10-08-2006, 12:33 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nethis wrote:<BR>Thanks for the guide, Illusive.  I agree with a lot of what you said with the exception of your casting order.  That may be why my DPS sucks, but I'll challenge it anyway.<BR><BR>Here's my order:<BR>Pre-cast Frost Shield on MT<BR>Frigid Gift as the mob approaches<BR>Protoferno<BR>Rending Icicles<BR>Ball<BR>Cease<BR>Surge of Flames<BR>Fiery Convulsions<BR>Irradiate<BR>Ball<BR>Concussive<BR>Freehand / Nova<BR>rinse and repeat with Rending Icicles when needed, Frost Shield, Ball, Irradiate, Fiery Convulsions.  Cast Nova if it's up, Fusion if it won't get me killed.<BR>I might throw in a forge of ro and infero ( don't have firestorm yet.. haha ) but usually, I'm in the back nuking away.<BR><BR>I agree with how you're casting Nova early.  If the tank can hold the aggro, you might be able to use it twice in a fight.<BR>I need to get myself a T7 Hex doll.<BR><BR>I think Protoferno should be casted earlier so that it can fight for its entire duration.<BR>I think surging tempest should not be used at all because of its long cast time.  If i'm not mistaken, the stuns of Tempest and Incapacitate don't affect epics so I rarely use them in raids.<BR><BR> After seeing your parse post that displayed the damage breakdown, I put an emphasis on Ball / Nova / Fusion since they do the most damage.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>the use of surging tempest is a must on any single target encounter that will live for around 1minute.</P> <P>this spell will actually increase your dps, rather than lower it.  Its a cast and forget type of spell.  it regularly hits for 1500 each tick on a raid, and since it has 6 ticks,  the total damage delivered by its cast time is still rather high, 6x1500 = 9000 dmg for 3s cast.<BR></P>

SacDaddy420
10-08-2006, 01:57 AM
I've had a bad taste in my mouth for Surging tempest, since it kept jacking my catalyst.  I will still use it, however, if the encounter will be a long one.  But only right after I've thrown out a steroid-pumped nuke.<div></div>

Renaven
10-08-2006, 02:23 AM
<DIV>I disagree with some of the casting orders people have listed.  I, however, can't stress enough how situational every cast order is for me.  It completely depends on a number of things, such as: how many mobs, the distance each mob is away from each other, the hps each mob has, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I were to make a *general* casting order for a single-target mob lasting <STRONG>over a minute</STRONG> (again, completely situational, and I never strictly always use this order because I'm always adapting to every situation), then it would be this:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Iceshield the tank pre-pull<BR>2. Frigid Gift pre-pull<BR>3. Concussive pre-pull<BR>4. Rending Icicles<BR>5. Catalyst<BR>6. Freehand<BR>7. Fusion<BR>8. Ice Nova<BR>9. Surging Tempest<BR>10. Inferno Surge<BR>11. Protoferno<BR><BR>Once those spells are cast, I get into my spam casting abilities. <BR><BR>1. Ball of Lava<BR>2. Iceshield<BR>3. Incapacitate<BR>4. Irradiate<BR>5. Sunstrike</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>Again, completely situational.  A LOT of the time I'll cast Surging Tempest before Ice Nova/Fusion -- depends on a *lot* of different things.  Sometimes I find a use for fiery convulsions, and ice flame, in a single-target encounter -- but that is rarely and the exception, not the rule.  This order *should* allow me to squeeze in one more Ice Nova before the fight's over.  I could have also done Ice Nova before Fusion, then crit/fh Fusion, to allow Ice Nova a greater chance of refreshing before the fight is over.  There's many different things to do to maximize your DPS.  If I were to list all of them, then I'd have to write a book on it.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Renaven on <span class=date_text>10-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 PM</span>

Renaven
10-08-2006, 03:36 AM
<DIV>Surging Tempest is the type of spell that you simply have to be attentive to.  I will just do my normal casting order, then right after Surge ticks, I'll catalyst/fh then fusion or ice nova.  This'll in turn cause my to crit Ice Nova or Fusion, as well as Surge, because of a slight bug.  = More DPS.</DIV>

HomeChicken
10-08-2006, 08:32 AM
<DIV>yah surging tempest can be a PITA if you arent watching when its ticking, but if you pay attention you can get freehand / catalyst around it pretty well, i normally would throw surging tempest followed by freehand / catalyst / fusion or ice nova depending on the mob and it works just fine, and by the time those spells are up again surging tempest has gone away, lather rinse repeat</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Nethis
10-08-2006, 10:21 AM
I don't agree with Renaven's casting order.  Doing a concussive that early is a waste because you don't have much hate anyway.  I don't think you can get negative hate.  Also, I'm not able to pull off casting a fusion followed by a nova without getting myself killed.  Maybe my raid setup isn't good enough.And wow, surging tempest must be mislabled.  The description of the spell makes it seem like it's a DD.  It has a duration though so it's believable that it's a dot.<div></div>

Renaven
10-08-2006, 11:50 AM
<DIV>Remember, the casting order I listed earlier was just a *general* order.  In order to be the most effective, you're going to have to change it around based on a number of different, aforementioned, factors.  That's what I believe sets apart the best Wizards from the good Wizards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Concussive pre-pull is better than no Concussive at all - and it does help, to a very mild extent.  I don't see how it could be viewed as a waste, as it does have a very small benefit, and has no negative impact on your DPS as you're casting it before the fight even begins.  I will never, EVER use Concussive during a fight, unless I have aggro and want to try to shake it quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fusion that early on works fine for me every time.  And yeah, raid setup and such is very crucial to accomplishing this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edited to sound a little less mean.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Renaven on <span class=date_text>10-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:57 AM</span>

Tanit
10-08-2006, 04:48 PM
<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nethis wrote:Also, I'm not able to pull off casting a fusion followed by a nova without getting myself killed.  <font color="#ffffcc">Maybe my raid setup isn't good enough.</font><font color="#ffff66">Possibly, i always do freehand/catalyst fusion followed by an ice nova with no problems myself.</font>And wow, surging tempest must be mislabled.  The description of the spell makes it seem like it's a DD.  It has a duration though so it's believable that it's a dot.<font color="#ffff66">Well it's more like a nuke that fires off every 8 seconds. Thats why, unlike normal dots, it also triggers proc, concussive, freehand etc.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote><div></div><p>Message Edited by Tanith_ on <span class=date_text>10-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:51 PM</span>

Nethis
10-09-2006, 12:55 AM
On the parse thread, Illusive says he's grouped up with a dirge for hate GAIN?  Why?<div></div>

IllusiveThoughts
10-09-2006, 09:26 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nethis wrote:<BR>On the parse thread, Illusive says he's grouped up with a dirge for hate GAIN?  Why?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>maybe you should ask this in the parse thread.</P> <P> </P> <P>at any rate I was grouped with the PALY MT, and as the MT group he had a dirge and coercer for HIS hate gain, and amends was on ME for hate transfer to HIM.</P>

ailees
10-09-2006, 04:59 PM
I agree with nightwolf (" I was under the impression hate transfers only broke <u>when they were looped</u>") I think ILLUSIVE is wrong when he says :>IT :<font color="#ffffff" size="4">2 hate transfer spells will not stack.</font> <p><font color="#ffffff" size="4">Example you have amends on you and you try to cast Ammolism on the paly or even on another fighter, the two will cancel out and you will end up with 0 hate transfer, even though both buffs will show active.</font></p><p>I tested it in some places this last week : 1/ in group, with pally MT. If he casts AMEND on me, I don't get any agro, never. Even starting group fight with catalist fusion. If I cast Anomalism on him, I get agro because they both cancel each other. 2/ in a raid situation, grouped with a pally, AMEND on me, ANOMALISM on MT (who is in another group) If I cast too strongly pally is attacked by mobs. </p><p><font color="#ffffff" size="4"></font></p><div></div>

TheBu
10-09-2006, 08:21 PM
<P>more info on hate spells</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=17436#M17436" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=17436#M17436</A></P> <P> </P> <P><FONT size=4>"protoferno is a dumbfire pet, and his agro will not count towards you until the pet dies or expires"</FONT></P> <P>Are you sure we get the hate if the pet expires? the description says if it dies, not expire.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also you said something about casting <FONT size=4> surge of flames, forge of ro, firestorm..<BR>Does surge of flames now proc with forge of ro?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=97371" target=_blank><SPAN>Nightwo|f</SPAN></A>  I think you might be right...About agro transfers:<BR>but also not sure about multiple transfer going to the same person. I think that might be wer it breaks.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>Also i am sure ther are as many casting orders as there are casters. So let not go crazy on it on everyone showing ther casting order... so let me show mine and then we can be done with it...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>Just kidin: </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=32713" target=_blank><SPAN>IllusiveThoughts</SPAN></A>  you did not say anything about agro from buffs. aka ice shield or other buff spells.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>Iceshield is a good spell to talk about. As we can get agro from the buffing of the spell ( a set amount based on the lvl of the spell) But not on the damage it does.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=4>Also you did not go into that the Degro procs for items are normal for the target and not target encounter. aka one mob out of the many. I think it only work on one target.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>and i am hoping for the 101% deagro..  does this mean the mob will become our friend?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4></FONT> </P>

ailees
10-09-2006, 08:52 PM
I'm not blind, I don't even have eyes problems, and if I had, I would modify my display.Then I don't see the point of putting messages in bolf like that.Do you (and Ellu) think that putting them in bold will reinforce them ?<font size="4"><b>bold (or font size) is not a strengh buffer</b></font>. <div></div>

Renaven
10-10-2006, 12:43 AM
<DIV>Last time I checked, Inferno Surge does not proc Forge of Ro, making it inefficient to cast it before you cast FoR.  </DIV>

Didi
10-10-2006, 01:52 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ailees wrote:<BR> <P>I tested it in some places this last week :<BR>1/ in group, with pally MT. If he casts AMEND on me, I don't get any agro, never. Even starting group fight with catalist fusion. If I cast Anomalism on him, I get agro because they both cancel each other.<BR>2/ in a raid situation, grouped with a pally, AMEND on me, ANOMALISM on MT (who is in another group) If I cast too strongly pally is attacked by mobs.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have been informed by several paladins that I must not use Anomalism when Amends is in use, as Anomalism will 'break' Amends.  While I haven't done extensive testing it certainly seems that we can't use it when there's a paladin around.<BR></P> <P><FONT size=4>PS: Illusive, please fix the spelling in the original post - it's not ammolism, it's Anomalism :smileywink:</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Didi on <span class=date_text>10-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:53 AM</span>

ailees
10-10-2006, 02:32 PM
<div></div><div></div>as far as I know, and as far as my tests show, you should not cast anomalism on a pally if he casts amend on you.but I never saw any test showing that you cannot cast anomalism <u>on another player</u> while being amended.I'll believe it when I'll see TESTs, not "I've been said" because my own tests seem to say that only loop buffers cancel effect.<p>Message Edited by ailees on <span class=date_text>10-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:56 AM</span>

Wossname
10-10-2006, 04:51 PM
<div></div>Nice write up IT, thanks. I've got a couple of questions though. Bear in mind that on the occasions I raid, the best I can hope for is that the MT is a Paladin with a good DPS class as his Amends target (not me). Sadly this also means I end up using single target cast chains against sequential mobs in multi-mob encounters.Any chance you could turn it back into normal text please? The <font face="Arial" size="5">huge font</font> makes my head hurt to read <span>:smileysad:</span>How, if at all, do you deal with the spikiness of Wizard damage? I simply never cast Fusion on a raid because to do so is a death sentence. The damage spike always puts me far enough above the average DPS the tank can cope with to pull agro. FHS and IN can do the same sometimes, I had several deaths in sequential fights where the Brigand dropped Dispatch on the mob part way through me casting IN. I ended up changing my cast order to avoid hitting the mob when its resistances were reduced. Sounds mad but dead Wizards don't DPS.<div></div>

ailees
10-10-2006, 05:27 PM
if you cannot cast fusion or even IN, let's say at 50% at least, then your tank is not managing aggro enough. Or he does not have enough agro buffers. Then you must lower your DPS, nothing that you can do.In a raid situation, I can cast IN with catalist at 75% without trouble, for fusion it is more complicated, depends on the number of mobs, and their remaining health when I cast. Look at some other post about DPS, you'll find the info. But to summ up, with 3 mobs or more, you'd better wait for 3d mob to be almost dead. Now, of course, I already did a 70K damage without taking agro, but our MT is a kind of glue to mobs... and it is SO scarrrrrry......<div></div>

IllusiveThoughts
10-10-2006, 06:41 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wossname wrote:<BR> Nice write up IT, thanks. I've got a couple of questions though. Bear in mind that on the occasions I raid, the best I can hope for is that the MT is a Paladin with a good DPS class as his Amends target (not me). Sadly this also means I end up using single target cast chains against sequential mobs in multi-mob encounters.<BR><BR>Any chance you could turn it back into normal text please? The <FONT face=Arial size=5>huge font</FONT> makes my head hurt to read <SPAN>:smileysad:<BR><BR></SPAN>How, if at all, do you deal with the spikiness of Wizard damage? I simply never cast Fusion on a raid because to do so is a death sentence. The damage spike always puts me far enough above the average DPS the tank can cope with to pull agro. FHS and IN can do the same sometimes, I had several deaths in sequential fights where the Brigand dropped Dispatch on the mob part way through me casting IN. I ended up changing my cast order to avoid hitting the mob when its resistances were reduced. Sounds mad but dead Wizards don't DPS.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah I can change the font, dont have time to correct spelling or grammar errors, I'm not an english teacher, you all know what i meant so deal.

Aeg
10-10-2006, 10:25 PM
<P>some excellant ideas in this thread, i never thought about using forge of ro with inferno surge, if it ticks every time it would be alot of free damage.</P> <P>my rotation on encounter mobs is:</P> <P>Frigid gift, Glacial winds, Electrifying flash, firestorm, Electrifying flash, Sunstrike (habit), Glacial winds, firestorm, Fusion. by then all the other are dead and i switch to my short fight dps,</P> <P>rending icicles, incapacitate, ice nova, ball of lava, fiery convulsions, irradiate, sunstrike, ball of lava, fiery convulsions, irradiate, ball of lava, (ice nova), incapacitate, ball of lava. ect.</P> <P>my long fight dps is..</P> <P>rending icicles, surging tempest, incapacitate, ice nova, ball of lava, inferno surge, fiery convulsions,  irradiate....(^^ above), fusion at 20%.</P> <P> </P> <P>any ideas on how to improve my single target dps? i am agi spec to the bottom and str spec to max passive crits. no cataylst and no freehand.</P>

Wossname
10-11-2006, 12:20 AM
<div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<div></div>yeah I can change the font, dont have time to correct spelling or grammar errors, I'm not an english teacher, you all know what i meant so deal.<hr></blockquote>Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That's much easier to read.</div>

Darien al'Staff
10-11-2006, 01:56 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aegiz wrote:<BR> <P>some excellant ideas in this thread, i never thought about using forge of ro with inferno surge, if it ticks every time it would be alot of free damage.</P> <P>my rotation on encounter mobs is:</P> <P>Frigid gift, Glacial winds, Electrifying flash, firestorm, Electrifying flash, Sunstrike (habit), Glacial winds, firestorm, Fusion. by then all the other are dead and i switch to my short fight dps,</P> <P>rending icicles, incapacitate, ice nova, ball of lava, fiery convulsions, irradiate, sunstrike, ball of lava, fiery convulsions, irradiate, ball of lava, (ice nova), incapacitate, ball of lava. ect.</P> <P>my long fight dps is..</P> <P>rending icicles, surging tempest, incapacitate, ice nova, ball of lava, inferno surge, fiery convulsions,  irradiate....(^^ above), fusion at 20%.</P> <P> </P> <P>any ideas on how to improve my single target dps? i am agi spec to the bottom and str spec to max passive crits. no cataylst and no freehand.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>Fusion/ice nova early on in the fight.  You need those refresh timers to keep coming up..it's a must.  Wizards NEED to ride the agro line to put out dps...don't be afraid of dying.</P> <P> </P> <P>My rotation is something like this (on named mobs):</P> <P>Iceshield (prepull)<BR>Frigid Gift (depending)<BR>Rending Iceicles<BR>Fiery Convultions (DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THIS SPELL!)<BR>Freehand/Catalyst<BR>Ice Nova or Fusion<BR>Surge of Flames<BR>Surging Tempest<BR>Protoinferno<BR>Ball of Lava<BR>Irradiate<BR>etcetc</P>

IllusiveThoughts
10-11-2006, 02:20 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darien al'Staff wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Fusion/ice nova early on in the fight.  You need those refresh timers to keep coming up..it's a must.  Wizards NEED to ride the agro line to put out dps...don't be afraid of dying.</P> <P> </P> <P>My rotation is something like this (on named mobs):</P> <P>Iceshield (prepull)<BR>Frigid Gift (depending)<BR>Rending Iceicles<BR>Fiery Convultions (DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THIS SPELL!)<BR>Freehand/Catalyst<BR>Ice Nova or Fusion<BR>Surge of Flames<BR>Surging Tempest<BR>Protoinferno<BR>Ball of Lava<BR>Irradiate<BR>etcetc</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>why would you only proc rending icicles / fusion with frigid gift?</P> <P>casting rending icicles, surging tempest, f/s Ice nova(or fusion) = 3 procs.  Think about it for a sec. Frigid gift takes 1s to cast 1.5 with refresh and no modifiyers.  at M1 it procs about 400 per hit.</P> <P>400x3 = 1200 dmg / 1.5s cast = 800 dps spell, </P> <P>400x2 = 800 dmg / 1.5s cast = 533.3 dps spell.</P> <P>Which way is more efficient to you?  The bonus to the group from the buff doesn't matter because both chains cast it, so that argument is moot.</P> <P> </P> <P>its also exponentially higher on aoe's</P> <P>3 targets = 1200 per aoe spell </P> <P>so example 3 mob encounter</P> <P>frigid gift, glacial winds, f/s fusion</P> <P>= 2400 dmg / 1.5s = 1600 dps</P> <P>at that point it is arguable if you should cast rending icicles before glacial winds on one mob for 5% more dps due to the debuff + 400 dmg proc, or leave it out until you finish off fusion.<BR></P>

Didi
10-11-2006, 07:17 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>yeah I can change the font, dont have time to correct spelling or grammar errors, I'm not an english teacher, you all know what i meant so deal.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not being pedantic here, but it IS important the spell names are spelled correctly because the young wizards that your post is helping, are going to run to the broker and search for their spell upgrades.  And they are NOT going to find any spell if theysearch for "ammolism".  So yeah, it may be a pain but it's going to save the people using the guide a lot of confusion if the spelling is correct.<BR>

IllusiveThoughts
10-11-2006, 08:51 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Didi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR><BR>yeah I can change the font, dont have time to correct spelling or grammar errors, I'm not an english teacher, you all know what i meant so deal.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not being pedantic here, but it IS important the spell names are spelled correctly because the young wizards that your post is helping, are going to run to the broker and search for their spell upgrades.  And they are NOT going to find any spell if theysearch for "ammolism".  So yeah, it may be a pain but it's going to save the people using the guide a lot of confusion if the spelling is correct.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This isn't a basic wizard guide, theres like 3 posts stickied with spells lists and how to play a wizard, when you raid you assume you know the basics of your class.

Didi
10-11-2006, 09:53 AM
<P>You know by now you've now typed 5 times as much as the effort it would have taken to fix the typo in the first place ... :smileywink:</P> <P>And I am constantly amazed at what wizards don't know... there is a tier 6 wizard in my guild who is starting to go on some tier 6 raids and I discovered she has been casting 'frigid gift' on the party and isn't using her ice shield on the tank at all any more. Why?  Because they have the same graphic, and frigid gift hits the whole group, so using the individual ice shield on the tank must be a waste, right?  *smacks head*</P> <P>Yes there are other wizard guides they should read too, hopefully this would be on the reading list for all new wizards too though, looks to be a very useful resource.  And even young wizards who don't have all these spells yet can learn a lot from several of the sections, not to mention preparing in advance for when they do start raiding.</P>

ailees
10-11-2006, 10:44 AM
some roles are easy to play, some are not.If you want to be a high damager as a wizard, it is a lot, really a lot, of work, training, comparing.I'm a good damager, I'm a bad soloer, but as I never trained to solo, and trained a lot with damages, seems quite natural, right ?A standard wizard, just playing for the fun, without trying hard to be better, and as someone else said allways "death borderline", has a DPS around 600, let's say 700 in raid. He does not die much, can slack a lot, and have lot of other activities... Well, why not ? just not my cup of tea.<div></div>

TheBu
10-11-2006, 06:36 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aegiz wrote:<BR> <P>any ideas on how to improve my single target dps? i am agi spec to the bottom and str spec to max passive crits. no cataylst and no freehand.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>On the ap line I would max your freehand and damage done first. Then latter on you can resect and go for the crits and some of freehand and damge.</P> <P>you said something about "Sunstrike (habit)"  what that? take that spell out of your vacabalary.. . a the best even with master it still dont less than 700 dps.  Electrifying flash master will do less than 500dps per encounter.. so.. only use if u have 4 mobs or more, with the exception of the extra damage from Frigid gift .</P> <P>#1 spell of all time.. . Ice shield! cast it as much as u can( well as long as the tank can get hit) Agro free damage! well with the exception of the death i had last night from the casting it on the mt.  (buffing agro)  guess he got resisted.. I should have cast sooner..</P> <P>best spells for single target incounters i think are:</P> <P> rending icicles (got to have the debuff and damage) and ice shield  when ever u can</P> <P>( listed by most dps per casting time).</P> <P>ice nova and fusion</P> <P> </P> <P>incapacitate,ball of lava  irradiate, , , inferno surge, fiery convulsions, </P> <P>firestorm, Glacial winds Fiery convusions</P> <P>protoferno for fights wer the mob will be up for a bit. </P> <P>tro in inferno surge, Frigid gift and cease when u can.</P> <P>TheBuzZ</P> <P>just a note on the Sunstrike spell, my irradiate does almost 2x more damage per casting time as Sunstrike. it only slows u down... </P> <P> </P>

FordPrefect
10-18-2006, 11:49 PM
<DIV>As a 70 wizard that has just begun to raid, it was helpful to read about everyone's take on the optimal spell order. It definitely gives me some stuff to try out. One thing that I can't over emphasize is the notion that death is a major part of raiding. As someone who has soloed most of my 70 levels, it's not too bad to take (I'm approaching 1,000 deaths) but for some folks, it can get frustrating. A few things I would add to your guide to help mitigate that frustration ~ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Make sure that you repair before the raid starts. The better raid leaders that I have had will go as far as inspecting everyone and making sure everyone's gear is at 100%. There is nothing more embarrassing than holding up 23 other people while you go and repair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Invest in repair kits and/or backup gear. I carry a complete set of backup gear whenever I raid and there have been several times when half the raid is naked and I'm able to go to the back up stuff and still function.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rasdauer</DIV> <DIV>70 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Vis Nova ~ Everfrost</DIV>

IllusiveThoughts
10-19-2006, 01:27 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FordPrefect wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a 70 wizard that has just begun to raid, it was helpful to read about everyone's take on the optimal spell order. It definitely gives me some stuff to try out. One thing that I can't over emphasize is the notion that death is a major part of raiding. As someone who has soloed most of my 70 levels, it's not too bad to take (I'm approaching 1,000 deaths) but for some folks, it can get frustrating. A few things I would add to your guide to help mitigate that frustration ~ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Make sure that you repair before the raid starts. The better raid leaders that I have had will go as far as inspecting everyone and making sure everyone's gear is at 100%. There is nothing more embarrassing than holding up 23 other people while you go and repair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Invest in repair kits and/or backup gear. I carry a complete set of backup gear whenever I raid and there have been several times when half the raid is naked and I'm able to go to the back up stuff and still function.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rasdauer</DIV> <DIV>70 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Vis Nova ~ Everfrost</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>good points but those are not specific to wizards.  thats a general raiding tip.  either way its now in this thread so no need for me to add it to my original post.

BlackAdderDr
10-19-2006, 04:43 PM
<div></div>I am suprised there has not been many mention of HO's.  I macro arcane auger/cease since its a combined .5 second cast time and if I dont get the finisher another raid member certainly will.  Free damage off my de-agro spell?  sign me up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />-Acelia<div></div><p>Message Edited by BlackAdderDrop on <span class=date_text>10-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:45 AM</span>

IllusiveThoughts
10-19-2006, 06:20 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackAdderDrop wrote:<BR> I am suprised there has not been many mention of HO's.  I macro arcane auger/cease since its a combined .5 second cast time and if I dont get the finisher another raid member certainly will.  Free damage off my de-agro spell?  sign me up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>-Acelia<BR> <P>Message Edited by BlackAdderDrop on <SPAN class=date_text>10-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:45 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>its not worth it for me.  currently the way instant cast spells work with macros, you have to wait until the last spell refreshes, or it will not fire if you try to que up the macro while another spell is casting.</P> <P>this "delay" actually hurts dps more than it helps.</P> <P>Unfortunately the only worthwhile one is using freehand sorc and fusion/ice nova, those are the only combo's i'll sacrifice the .2-.5 seconds to make sure my hotbar has refreshed so i can ensure free hand sorc fires prior to casting.</P>

ailees
10-19-2006, 07:18 PM
I agree I.T., any casting that does not makes damage lowers DPS.in a strict damage point of view, I never uses deagro spells, I just chain cast agro ones !FreeHand and Catalyst (for me) being the only exceptions.Of course, for some mobs I'm obliged to use both dolls (not much people have got them in my guild), because I'm asked to, and for others, I'm obliged to feed healers. But that's another problem. Not really a thing I like, just my job <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

BlackAdderDr
10-19-2006, 07:31 PM
Well for those of us that do de-agro because of raid setup, its useful.-Acelia<div></div>

KillerMojo
11-28-2006, 08:14 PM
<DIV>Alright Illu, time for a post EoF raiding guide update.  You have to change the description of Anomalism as it is now an AoE de-aggro and does not have to be followed by a spell.  It just de-aggros.  Also, Cease, now reduces damage by much more then it used to (approx 500 I think?).  As for gear, is the Xhavix's Gown still worth mentioning after the nerf?</DIV>

HerzenFunia
11-28-2006, 08:19 PM
I think u mean concussive, not anomalism?

KillerMojo
11-28-2006, 10:30 PM
Sorry, True.  Concussive is changed.  All this talk about Anomalism got me all twisted up!

IllusiveThoughts
11-28-2006, 10:53 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KillerMojo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Alright Illu, time for a post EoF raiding guide update.  You have to change the description of Anomalism as it is now an AoE de-aggro and does not have to be followed by a spell.  It just de-aggros.  Also, Cease, now reduces damage by much more then it used to (approx 500 I think?).  As for gear, is the Xhavix's Gown still worth mentioning after the nerf?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yep I need to sit down and update the guide.

IllusiveThoughts
11-29-2006, 01:49 AM
i went through and updated some pertinent information.

Force Weaver
11-29-2006, 07:35 AM
<DIV>A relevant yet noobish question here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Been reading all over about Spell Resists and the Disruption skill and it seems that skill vs mob con color is what is compared for a "to hit" roll for a spell and spell quality matters but not as much as your skill. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So when a Lvl 70 Adept III with Disruption 350/350 skill is resisted on a 74^^^ mob at a certain rate (whatever that is), a lvl 70 Adept III with 350/350 skill + Disruption skill (fable gear or Sta line) will make it resist less often right? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been hearing that a rule of thumb is 5 points in a skill = 1 level of con.  Is this true?  If so then the Sta AA buff with +42 Disruption & Focus would be the equivlent of +8.4 Levels of Con ie lvl 70 can even con a 78.4 mob.  Actually I could never imagine myself fighting much higher than 4 lvls above me in any situation so all I'd need would be +26 or +5.2 Levels of con if this was true from the Sta AA line.   I know named mobs have little bonuses and other surprises so you'd want to be +8.4 lvls to be well above the named epic modifiers but for just regular instance grouping seems like +5.2 sounds about right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've looked all over the boards real hard to find the exact relation to no avail perhaps one of the experienced raiders would know it better than I? </DIV>

IllusiveThoughts
11-29-2006, 10:18 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Force Weaver wrote:<BR> <DIV>A relevant yet noobish question here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Been reading all over about Spell Resists and the Disruption skill and it seems that skill vs mob con color is what is compared for a "to hit" roll for a spell and spell quality matters but not as much as your skill. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So when a Lvl 70 Adept III with Disruption 350/350 skill is resisted on a 74^^^ mob at a certain rate (whatever that is), a lvl 70 Adept III with 350/350 skill + Disruption skill (fable gear or Sta line) will make it resist less often right? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been hearing that a rule of thumb is 5 points in a skill = 1 level of con.  Is this true?  If so then the Sta AA buff with +42 Disruption & Focus would be the equivlent of +8.4 Levels of Con ie lvl 70 can even con a 78.4 mob.  Actually I could never imagine myself fighting much higher than 4 lvls above me in any situation so all I'd need would be +26 or +5.2 Levels of con if this was true from the Sta AA line.   I know named mobs have little bonuses and other surprises so you'd want to be +8.4 lvls to be well above the named epic modifiers but for just regular instance grouping seems like +5.2 sounds about right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've looked all over the boards real hard to find the exact relation to no avail perhaps one of the experienced raiders would know it better than I? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>sta line doesn't increase subjigation which is neccessary for roots/stifles/stuns.  it needs to have this critical buff before it makes it useful.</P> <P>aside from that going from 350 base to new cap of 455 yeilds approx a 20% modifyer to hit, with most likely a large chunk comming from going to 400 and a very diminishing returns to 455.<BR></P>

Force Weaver
11-29-2006, 09:53 PM
<P>Well then the trailer to that question for me is the 700 extra mitigation on the Sta line is good right?  More mitigation means live longer when you take AOE or aggro temp till the tank can rescue or whatnot right? </P> <P>I guess for raiding the right answer is power conservation and hate reduction (wis and Int) to not get aggro to being with but humor me for a sec.</P> <P>I mean I'm rolling in around 900 mit at 70 so that'd be 900+700 = way less than 4000 which gives us longer time to live right this side of dimishing returns. </P> <P>But not sure about the parry / dmg shield going up from 2.1 to 2.5% parry, I mean does is it worth any extra points in the Sta line? I know there's a damage shield on this one but the str one has 8% parry.  Does damage + small parry = big parry in effectiveness?</P> <P>On the same line of thought does the in/out combat move buff on the agility line affect your avoidance somehow?  Or is it just a bonus to help scoot yourself out of harms way?  i.e. is there any hidden bonus from going from 5-10% move buff other than extra mobility and positioning?</P>

KillerMojo
11-29-2006, 11:03 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Force Weaver wrote:<BR> <P>Well then the trailer to that question for me is the 700 extra mitigation on the Sta line is good right?  More mitigation means live longer when you take AOE or aggro temp till the tank can rescue or whatnot right? </P> <P>I guess for raiding the right answer is power conservation and hate reduction (wis and Int) to not get aggro to being with but humor me for a sec.</P> <P>I mean I'm rolling in around 900 mit at 70 so that'd be 900+700 = way less than 4000 which gives us longer time to live right this side of dimishing returns. </P> <P>But not sure about the parry / dmg shield going up from 2.1 to 2.5% parry, I mean does is it worth any extra points in the Sta line? I know there's a damage shield on this one but the str one has 8% parry.  Does damage + small parry = big parry in effectiveness?</P> <P>On the same line of thought does the in/out combat move buff on the agility line affect your avoidance somehow?  Or is it just a bonus to help scoot yourself out of harms way?  i.e. is there any hidden bonus from going from 5-10% move buff other than extra mobility and positioning?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you plan on raiding, you shouldn't have to worry about hate management.  They will usually put you with classes that will drain your hate or reduce the amount of hate you get.  Your job as a wizard in a raid is to DPS and wisdom is definately a good choice for that.  I have seem some wizards do agility to improve cast times and resuse times as their second line, and I have also seen wizards go down the strength line for the end ability called Catalyst.

IllusiveThoughts
11-30-2006, 12:20 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Force Weaver wrote:<BR> <P>Well then the trailer to that question for me is the 700 extra mitigation on the Sta line is good right?  More mitigation means live longer when you take AOE or aggro temp till the tank can rescue or whatnot right? </P> <P>I guess for raiding the right answer is power conservation and hate reduction (wis and Int) to not get aggro to being with but humor me for a sec.</P> <P>I mean I'm rolling in around 900 mit at 70 so that'd be 900+700 = way less than 4000 which gives us longer time to live right this side of dimishing returns. </P> <P>But not sure about the parry / dmg shield going up from 2.1 to 2.5% parry, I mean does is it worth any extra points in the Sta line? I know there's a damage shield on this one but the str one has 8% parry.  Does damage + small parry = big parry in effectiveness?</P> <P>On the same line of thought does the in/out combat move buff on the agility line affect your avoidance somehow?  Or is it just a bonus to help scoot yourself out of harms way?  i.e. is there any hidden bonus from going from 5-10% move buff other than extra mobility and positioning?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I played around with these on beta with a betabuffed wiz and 100 aa's (also goofed around with + avoidence aa's and + mit aas)</P> <P>my beta buffed toon had just shy of 1k mit(base), and with the 700 from sta I was sitting around(1700) 35% absorbtion and taking all the + avoidence aa's from all the KOS trees I was at 49% avoidence.</P> <P>which is primarily for pvp to increase your survivability.</P> <P>Overall I dont see many wizards taking the sta line on PVE because its a defensive build, and wizards are primarily offensive.</P> <P>Also int line is a defensive line, and may work if your guild does not have the right support classes to raid with that can siphon your hate.  However once you do regularly aquire these classes you should switch to a more offensive based build (str + wis, or wis + agi)</P><p>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <span class=date_text>11-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:21 AM</span>

Force Weaver
11-30-2006, 06:36 AM
<P>Wow, thanks for the info I think that's exactly what I needed to know.  </P> <P>Sounds like the +700 mit from Sta with the 14.4% Fast Cast and 14% Reuse reduction from KOS setup can be complimented with the Power line from the EOF aa's to make up for the non-Wis based KOS aa character that needs more power / time. </P> <P>That sta setup in pve is also good to give tanks and healers more chance to keep you going if they're lagging and can help out with those blue ^^^ attempts solo. </P>

Dejah
12-06-2006, 03:27 AM
<P>Minor nitpik about your hate transfer math. </P> <P>------------</P> <P>Q: How much more hate can I generate with a 4% hate transfer?</P> <P>A: </P> <P>Let x be your hate.  Let y be the tanks hate.  The the point at which your hate will be equal is:</P> <P>x * 0.96 = y + x * 0.04</P> <P>Solve for x</P> <P>x = (25/23) * y</P> <P>25/23 ~= 1.0869565217391</P> <P>With a 4% hate transfer you can generate about 8.67% more hate before pulling aggro.</P> <P>----------------</P> <P>Yeah yeah, 8% is already a good approximation.  Let's just say I have a thing about numbers: it drives me nuts when people do the math wrong.</P>

IllusiveThoughts
12-06-2006, 03:57 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <P>Minor nitpik about your hate transfer math. </P> <P>------------</P> <P>Q: How much more hate can I generate with a 4% hate transfer?</P> <P>A: </P> <P>Let x be your hate.  Let y be the tanks hate.  The the point at which your hate will be equal is:</P> <P>x * 0.96 = y + x * 0.04</P> <P>Solve for x</P> <P>x = (25/23) * y</P> <P>25/23 ~= 1.0869565217391</P> <P>With a 4% hate transfer you can generate about 8.67% more hate before pulling aggro.</P> <P>----------------</P> <P>Yeah yeah, 8% is already a good approximation.  Let's just say I have a thing about numbers: it drives me nuts when people do the math wrong.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>np dehah, simply doubling the amount is easy enough to be "close" to the actual figure.</P> <P>realistically who in game would be able to tell the difference of 0.67% hate?  can even 1% less hate be noticable enough for one person to pick up on?  I dont think so.</P>

KillerMojo
12-07-2006, 12:06 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <P>Minor nitpik about your hate transfer math. </P> <P>------------</P> <P>Q: How much more hate can I generate with a 4% hate transfer?</P> <P>A: </P> <P>Let x be your hate.  Let y be the tanks hate.  The the point at which your hate will be equal is:</P> <P>x * 0.96 = y + x * 0.04</P> <P>Solve for x</P> <P>x = (25/23) * y</P> <P>25/23 ~= 1.0869565217391</P> <P>With a 4% hate transfer you can generate about 8.67% more hate before pulling aggro.</P> <P>----------------</P> <P>Yeah yeah, 8% is already a good approximation.  Let's just say I have a thing about numbers: it drives me nuts when people do the math wrong.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Can you please tell me in how arranging the above equation you managed to get x = (25/23) * y???  Where did the numbers 25 and 23 come from?  Did you put 1 in for 1 as 1.00 and reduce so that 1.00 equals 0.25 and 0.92 equals  0.23?</P> <P>I get x = y/0.92.  It works out to the same thing if y = 1 but i don't like abitrarily pulling numbers. </P>

Dejah
12-07-2006, 01:48 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KillerMojo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <P>Minor nitpik about your hate transfer math. </P> <P>------------</P> <P>Q: How much more hate can I generate with a 4% hate transfer?</P> <P>A: </P> <P>Let x be your hate.  Let y be the tanks hate.  The the point at which your hate will be equal is:</P> <P>x * 0.96 = y + x * 0.04</P> <P>Solve for x</P> <P>x = (25/23) * y</P> <P>25/23 ~= 1.0869565217391</P> <P>With a 4% hate transfer you can generate about 8.67% more hate before pulling aggro.</P> <P>----------------</P> <P>Yeah yeah, 8% is already a good approximation.  Let's just say I have a thing about numbers: it drives me nuts when people do the math wrong.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Can you please tell me in how arranging the above equation you managed to get x = (25/23) * y???  Where did the numbers 25 and 23 come from?  Did you put 1 in for 1 as 1.00 and reduce so that 1.00 equals 0.25 and 0.92 equals  0.23?</P> <P>I get x = y/0.92.  It works out to the same thing if y = 1 but i don't like abitrarily pulling numbers. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>1/0.92 = 25/23

Lagar
12-09-2006, 09:38 PM
<div><blockquote><hr>TheBuzZ wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Aegiz wrote: <div></div> <p>any ideas on how to improve my single target dps? i am agi spec to the bottom and str spec to max passive crits. no cataylst and no freehand.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>On the ap line I would max your freehand and damage done first. Then latter on you can resect and go for the crits and some of freehand and damge.</p> <p><font color="#ffff00">you said something about "Sunstrike (habit)"  what that? take that spell out of your vacabalary</font>.. . a the best even with master it still dont less than 700 dps.  Electrifying flash master will do less than 500dps per encounter.. so.. only use if u have 4 mobs or more, with the exception of the extra damage from Frigid gift .</p> <p>#1 spell of all time.. . Ice shield! cast it as much as u can( well as long as the tank can get hit) Agro free damage! well with the exception of the death i had last night from the casting it on the mt.  (buffing agro)  guess he got resisted.. I should have cast sooner..</p> <p>best spells for single target incounters i think are:</p> <p> rending icicles (got to have the debuff and damage) and ice shield  when ever u can</p> <p>( listed by most dps per casting time).</p> <p>ice nova and fusion</p> <p>incapacitate,ball of lava  irradiate, , , inferno surge, fiery convulsions, </p> <p>firestorm, Glacial winds Fiery convusions</p> <p>protoferno for fights wer the mob will be up for a bit. </p> <p>tro in inferno surge, Frigid gift and cease when u can.</p> <p>TheBuzZ</p> <p><font color="#ffff00">just a note on the Sunstrike spell, my irradiate does almost 2x more damage per casting time as Sunstrike. it only slows u down... </font></p> <hr></blockquote>Was doing some math today and if you dont use Sunstrike every time its up you are wasting a great dps low power cost spell.Sunstrike castrecast time is 4.05 secs.  Lets say it does between 750- 1361 damge per cast/recast.  Sunstrike does between 185- 336 damge per sec.  Irradiate cast/duration time is 9.45 secs.  Lets say it does 553- 1016 on cast and 4 ticks of 216- 399.  Total damge 1417-2612.  Irradiate does between 149- 276 damge per sec.Sunstrike is better and if you dont use it you are hurting your dps. Marty Wiz of VEA</div>

IllusiveThoughts
12-10-2006, 12:35 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lagar wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Was doing some math today and if you dont use Sunstrike every time its up you are wasting a great dps low power cost spell.<BR><BR>Sunstrike castrecast time is 4.05 secs.  Lets say it does between 750- 1361 damge per cast/recast.  Sunstrike does between 185- 336 damge per sec.  <BR><BR>Irradiate cast/duration time is 9.45 secs.  Lets say it does 553- 1016 on cast and 4 ticks of 216- 399.  Total damge 1417-2612.  Irradiate does between 149- 276 damge per sec.<BR><BR>Sunstrike is better and if you dont use it you are hurting your dps. <BR><BR>Marty Wiz of VEA<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>your math conflitcts with all of my parse info.  Please do not tell wizards to use sunstrike over irradiate, and please do not tell them to use it at all, this spell will only serve to HURT your dps in any casting cycle, and the ONLY time it should be used is if there is nothing else up to cast.<BR>

Lagar
12-10-2006, 02:59 AM
I was not saying to use it instead of Irradiate.  I was saying that if you didnt use it(Sunstrike) you would be lowering your dps.   The fact is as far as damage that each spell gives you per cast and recast or duration in the case of dots...Ball of lava gives 205- 377 dps...Sunstrike gives 185- 336 dps ....Irradiate gives 149- 276 and next is Ice Nova at 123-228.   Ice shield will return about 188- 230 dps if your tank gets hit. There are times it does not proc all 3 times.     My numbers are off of examine my spells..yours may be a little higher or lower.   I saw an increase in my dps by using sunstrike every 4.05 secs.   It is foolish not to use a spell that returns that amount of dps for 99 points of power.Marty Wiz of VEA<div></div>

simpwrx02
12-10-2006, 04:30 AM
<DIV>Lager i can see where you are coming from , but how you are examineing dps is if you were to spam only that one spell the entire fight, then recast time would become an issue, however dps is more derived off of time to cast + time to recover if it takes yo a total of 2.5 seconds with sunstrike to cast and recovery and you do 1500 damage, the spells dps would be 1500/2.5 which equals 600dps where as ball of lava takes 3.5 seconds to cast and recover and it does 4000 damage this spells dps would be 4000/3.5 which equals 1143dps. As far as Ice Nova goes it has a 4.5second casting and recovery time and does 9000 damage, this would become 9000/4.5 which would give you 2000 dps.   And finally irradiate which takes 2.5 seconds for cast and recover mine does like 1k upfront damage and lets say 300/tick for a total of 2200damage so for irradiates dps 2200/2.5 which equals 880 dps, basically if you use a spell order so that you never stop casting that is how you would project your dps.</DIV><p>Message Edited by simpwrx on <span class=date_text>12-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:34 PM</span>

Noaani
12-10-2006, 05:50 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lagar wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Was doing some math today and if you dont use Sunstrike every time its up you are wasting a great dps low power cost spell.<BR><BR>Sunstrike castrecast time is 4.05 secs.  Lets say it does between 750- 1361 damge per cast/recast.  Sunstrike does between 185- 336 damge per sec.  <BR><BR>Irradiate cast/duration time is 9.45 secs.  Lets say it does 553- 1016 on cast and 4 ticks of 216- 399.  Total damge 1417-2612.  Irradiate does between 149- 276 damge per sec.<BR><BR>Sunstrike is better and if you dont use it you are hurting your dps. <BR><BR>Marty Wiz of VEA<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your math is flawed. And I will tell you where.</P> <P>NEVER, not in any situation, should the recast timer of a spell be taken in to account when deciding on what spell to cast to maximise casting order.</P> <P>Both Irradiate and Sunstrike take 2 seconds to cast, and have a 0.5 second recovery (assuming no spell haste). These 2 times are the ONLY factors that should be taken in to account (unless you only have the 2 spells on your hotbar, and are sitting there on raids watching each refresh before casting one of your two spells).</P> <P>Now that we have theat set out, lets look at the casting time vs damage output of these 2 spells.</P> <P>Sunstrike does 832 - 1545 damage (master 1 spell, 604 int), which is an average of 1188.5 damage per spell cast.<BR>Irradate does 551 - 1024, followed by 4 ticks of 207 - 384 (master 1 spell, 604 int), which equals an average of 1969.5 damage per spell cast.</P> <P>Now, since these two spells both take exactly 2.5 seconds of my time to cast, and one generates 781 damage (on average) per cast than the other, i can not see the logic in your assumption at all.</P> <P> </P>

Lagar
12-10-2006, 10:58 AM
I was looking at the time it takes to cast the spell and for it to refresh or in case of dots their duration.  The faster we are at casting the more damge we do.  So I was looking at the amount of damge and the time it takes to use and be able to reuse that spell.                           damge                         Cast-refresh or duration                       total time to cast and be able to recast            damge/ total cast and recast time Sunstrike            750-1361                               1.45  cast....2.6 refresh                         4.05 sec                                                                         336Ball of Lava         2162-3967                             2.62 cast......7.9 refresh                        10.52 sec                                                                       377Incapacitate         1519-2506                             1.75 cast......refresh 26.5                       28.05 sec                                                                        89Ice Nova                4588 - 8455                              3.5 cast.......33.5 refresh                     37 sec                                                                          228Irradiate                 553- 1016  and 4 * 216- 399       1.45 cast.....8 duration                       9.45 sec                                                                     276                                                                                                            total damge 1417- 2612  To me it looks like Sunstrike deals a great amount of damge for the time it takes to cast and recast it.    Incapacitate looks very bad.   I keep Irradiate up all the time and I use Sunstrike everytime its up.  After looking at this though I wont be using Incapacitate in raids.      Yes I know that we can get more damge out of Ball of Lava and Ice Nova than I show.   I just took the numbers of an examined spell.  I just can not see how you could say not to use Sunstrike.  That spell give good damge for the time you have invested in it.  It makes a great filler in spell spam rotation.  Use it does not hurt my dps because with my casting order it does not take the place of a better spell like Ball or Ice Nova.    To me as a wizard you need to be casting every sec to do your best dps.  So that spell fits in with a low power and time cost.     <div></div>

simpwrx02
12-10-2006, 12:09 PM
<P>What does recast time have any thing to do with dps  fusion has a horrible recast time on it 3 minutes in fact, but it will bump up your dps everytime you use it, unless</P> <P> you spend 3+sesconds getting into position. And it only does slightly more damage to a single target than ice nova does.  recast times do play a row in casting order,</P> <P> but not in dps if you are aware of how to make your spells flow using your highest damge/total casting time spells.  Most wizzys and I happen to be one of them</P> <P> realize that sunstrike although mana efficient has a pretty bad damage to total time cast, basically both irradaite and sunstrike have the same casting time only one</P> <P> does about 1k more damage, and either one of these spells takes up about 1/3 of the time it takees for ball of lava to refresh (a spell i believe you should try to spam</P> <P> when ever it refreshes). Also if it is a shorter fight aka under 2 minutes use firestorm instead of sunstrike, sure it uses more mana but does over 2k damage for the</P> <P> same amount of time spent casting.  Personally i have structured my casting order around ball of lava and in doing this set the bar for dps in my guild raids, I dont</P> <P> have any parses to post, but i dramatically out dps the other wizzys in my guild zone wide and on most fights.  Just to let you know my dps isnt that good compared</P> <P> to others on the board here i normally only parse around 1000-1100 zone wide,closer to 1200 with the new EoF AAs, how ever when i started raiding it was closer to</P> <P> 700 zone wide. </P>

Noaani
12-10-2006, 09:42 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lagar wrote:<BR>I was looking at the time it takes to cast the spell and for it to refresh or in case of dots their duration.  The faster we are at casting the more damge we do.  So I was looking at the amount of damge and the time it takes to use and be able to reuse that spell.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And this is why you are not doing your maximum potential DPS. You do not wait for spells to refresh, so the recast timer of a spell should not be taken in to consideration. You do, however, have to actually cast the spell, so its casting timer should be taken in to consideration. In the case of DoTs, there duration has no bering on how much DPS they do, unless the mob dies before the duration is up.</P> <P>The following is a comparison of spells I did pre GU#29, all masters, all with max int, no spell haste, taking the average damage output of each spell and assuming DoTs run their full duration.</P> <P>Ball of Lava, 3 second casting, 1020 damage for each second of your casting time.</P> <P>Fiery Conv, 1 second casting, 1164 damage for each second of your casting time.</P> <P>Sunstrike, 2 second casting time, 562.5 damage for each second of your casting time.</P> <P>Irradiate, 2 second casting time, 971 damage per second of your casting time.</P> <P>Incapacitate, 2 second casting time, 966 damage per second of your casting time.</P> <P>Ice Nova, 4 second casting time, 1640 damage per second of your casting time</P> <P>Ice Shield, 1 second casting time, 3290 damage per second of your casting time.</P> <P>Surging Tempest, 3 second casting time, 2024 damage per second of your casting time.</P> <P>Fusion, 5 second casting time, 1901.4 damage per second of your casting time (per target).</P> <P>Looking at this, it is easy to see why most wizards have the basic casting order of Ice Shield, Surging Tempest, Fusion, Ice Nova, wicth minor personal diffearnces on that, and augmentation type spells added in (Catalyst, Freehand, Fiery Surge or Frigid Gift).</P>

Lagar
12-10-2006, 10:41 PM
<div></div>I agree with you noaani.   I guess I did a poor job of explaining that anyone that takes Sunstrike off their bar is hurting their dps becasue there are many times during a raid fight that you are waiting for spells to refresh.  Spells that do better damge per cast than Sunstrike but if you are waiting for those to refresh you should spend that time using Sunstrike during your rotation.  After I use start of the raid fight spells ( FG, IS, ST, etc).   I go into a rotation of spells around the refresh time of Ball of Lava.  Sunstrike, Irradiate and others are used to fill that time untill Ball of lava and Ice Nova come back up.    If there is a better way to fill the time while the big damge per cast spells are refreshing I would like to know what it is.  So..to say that sunstrike should never be used (as some on this board have said) I think is wrong.    <div></div><p>Message Edited by Lagar on <span class=date_text>12-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:10 AM</span>

IllusiveThoughts
12-11-2006, 12:21 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lagar wrote:<BR> I agree with you noaani.   I guess I did a poor job of explaining that anyone that takes Sunstrike off their bar is hurting their dps becasue there are many times during a raid fight that you are waiting for spells to refresh.  Spells that do better damge per cast than Sunstrike but if you are waiting for those to refresh you should spend that time using Sunstrike during your rotation.  <BR><BR>After I use start of the raid fight spells ( FG, IS, ST, etc).   I go into a rotation of spells around the refresh time of Ball of Lava.  Sunstrike, Irradiate and others are used to fill that time untill Ball of lava and Ice Nova come back up.    If there is a better way to fill the time while the big damge per cast spells are refreshing I would like to know what it is.  <BR><BR><BR>So..to say that sunstrike should never be used (as some on this board have said) I think is wrong.    <BR> <P>Message Edited by Lagar on <SPAN class=date_text>12-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:10 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>avoid using sustrike like the plague.</P> <P>use firestorm and firey convultions to fill the gaps instead.</P>

Lagar
12-11-2006, 01:09 AM
Fiery Conv.....8 ticks of 107-172 for total damge of 856-1376  over a time of 14 secs.... That spell has got to be one of the weakest damge spells we have.  You have to wait 14 secs to use that spell again as a fill in spell or you never get the full damge from it.  Sunstrike does = damge over shorter time and is ready to be reused for sec cast before Fiery Conv is done with the duration from 1st cast.  Fire Storm isn't a bad fill in.   Better damge at 1145- 2127 but it comes at 3 times the power cost and you have to wait 8.8 secs to use it again.  Would be hard to cycle it with Ball of Lava.   Fiery Conv....no   Fire Storm gets used everytime its up in multi mob but it is still a so-so fill in spell in single target.   <div></div>

IllusiveThoughts
12-11-2006, 01:18 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lagar wrote:<BR>Fiery Conv.....8 ticks of 107-172 for total damge of 856-1376  over a time of 14 secs.... That spell has got to be one of the weakest damge spells we have.  You have to wait 14 secs to use that spell again as a fill in spell or you never get the full damge from it.  Sunstrike does = damge over shorter time and is ready to be reused for sec cast before Fiery Conv is done with the duration from 1st cast.  <BR><BR>Fire Storm isn't a bad fill in.   Better damge at 1145- 2127 but it comes at 3 times the power cost and you have to wait 8.8 secs to use it again.  Would be hard to cycle it with Ball of Lava.   <BR><BR>Fiery Conv....no   <BR><BR>Fire Storm gets used everytime its up in multi mob but it is still a so-so fill in spell in single target.   <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>dude, i'm only going to say this one last time</P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=7>DO NOT USE RECAST OR DOT TICK DURATIONS FOR FACTORING DPS</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><FONT size=2>If we factor in the cast time by the total damage firey convultions actually out damages sunstrike.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>firey convultions takes 1 second to cast, sunstrike takes double, you can cast additional spells while firey convultions is ticking away, sunstrike you can not.  firey convultions is UNRESISTABLE, where sunstrike will get resisted.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I can go on and on, and I'm frankly tired of trying to set you straight, please do not post anymore of your flawed math until you have parses to back them up.  casting sunstrike HURTS your dps plain and simple, it is the WORST damage spell we have (aside from rending icicles) </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>so again please stop spreading this nonsense about using sunstrike to the rest of the wizard community in the raiding wizard guide, your only hurting your dps if you use it.</FONT></P>

Lagar
12-11-2006, 01:49 AM
Big bold letters must make you correct.<div></div>

Nastharl
12-11-2006, 10:20 AM
He's correct no matter what you seem to think.<div></div>

Falcogen
12-11-2006, 03:25 PM
<P>There are other threads that cover this topic but if you are religously using sunstrike you are hurting your dps, yes it is mana effecient but it doesnt do the best dps</P> <P>If you are trying to do maximum dps its use should be avoided PERIOD !!</P>

Noaani
12-11-2006, 06:00 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>IllusiveThoughts wrote:</P> <P><FONT size=2>firey convultions is UNRESISTABLE</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My goodness, 2 years playing a wizard in this game and i never noticed that little detail.</P> <P>Just one more reason to like that spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

TheBu
12-11-2006, 08:04 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lagar wrote:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I did a chart for myself back in the day...<BR>I feel they been a bit ruff on you in here. . but they had good intentions and u as well. I hear ya and the if your sitting ideal or purhaps if u got all ur procs and stuff. I think the best use might be for the range. But i found my old chart from back in the day not sure if before brainstorm... But purhaps it can show a relation at least...</P> <P>ther u can see the need for the masters..  and why i picked <FONT size=2>Glacial winds M2. notice also how firestorm dps is greater than even some of the direct damage spells. Also how my electr Flash M is such a lame spell.</FONT></P> <P>name         cast dur dps<BR>Sunstrike A     2  526.00<BR>Sunstrike A#   2  597.50<BR>Sunstrike M    2  683.00<BR>Incapacate A   2 3 908.50<BR>Incapacate A3 2 3 1118.00<BR>Incapacate M  2 3 1278.00<BR>BoL M             3  1207.67<BR>Nova A3         4  1974.25<BR>Nova M          4  2256.25<BR>Fusion A3      5  1925.40<BR>Fusion M        5  2200.60<BR>   <BR>Fiery convusions M 1 8 875.00<BR>irradiate  M              2 8 1127.00<BR>rendering icicles A   1 24 903.00<BR>rendering icicles A3 1 24 1085.00<BR>rendering icicles M  1 24 1239.00<BR>   </P> <P>electr Flash M    3 6 494.67<BR>firestorm A         2  749.50<BR>firestorm A3       2  874.50<BR>Glacial winds M 4 9 892.00<BR>firestorm M         2  961.50</P>

Lagar
12-12-2006, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the advice all.   Tonight I didnt use Sunstrike.  Instead when I was waiting for certain spells to refresh I would fill by casting Ice Shield , Irradiate and Fiery Con.  Many times the duration was not up on those but it allowed me to keep them ticking for more total time.   We were in Cloakwork so it is hard to say if my DPS jumped up or not.   I am interested in trying this in old KoS raids to see what the numbers will be.   The Buzz..thanks for that chart.<div></div>

Dejah
12-13-2006, 04:08 AM
<DIV>This thread has turned into a prime example of why I don't really bother trying to convince people how to improve their DPS.  Some people will do the math incorrectly and no matter what you tell them they won't listen.  The only thing that really bothers me about letting them continue down the wrong path is that they come back to these same boards and complain about their DPS.  Other than that, it doesn't really bother me that they remain the way they are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I might as well add something of value though, instead of just making a whine post, so here it goes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone said that you should never consider the recast time of a spell when deciding spell order.  I agree, for the most part.  There is an exception to this though.  If you know that the recast of a spell is so long that you won't be able to cast it more than one more time, it doesn't matter if you cast it next so long as you cast it before the mob dies.  This may be the difference between casting one extra Ball of Lava or two extra Ball of Lava.  Being able to do this relies on a very important skill though: The ability to judge how long it will take for the mob to die.</DIV>

IllusiveThoughts
12-13-2006, 04:32 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <DIV>This thread has turned into a prime example of why I don't really bother trying to convince people how to improve their DPS.  Some people will do the math incorrectly and no matter what you tell them they won't listen.  The only thing that really bothers me about letting them continue down the wrong path is that they come back to these same boards and complain about their DPS.  Other than that, it doesn't really bother me that they remain the way they are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I might as well add something of value though, instead of just making a whine post, so here it goes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone said that you should never consider the recast time of a spell when deciding spell order.  I agree, for the most part.  There is an exception to this though.  If you know that the recast of a spell is so long that you won't be able to cast it more than one more time, it doesn't matter if you cast it next so long as you cast it before the mob dies.  This may be the difference between casting one extra Ball of Lava or two extra Ball of Lava.  Being able to do this relies on a very important skill though: The ability to judge how long it will take for the mob to die.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>agreed dehah, and the reason why people should not "theoretically calculate dps" is for that reason.  Every fight is different on a raid with 24 people, one mob with 1mil hp may die in 40s 1 min 1 min 30s it depends on what abilities are up who's paying attention ect.</P> <P>it comes down to the player to decide, long refresh spells that may be possible to use 2x in a fight such as ice nova, obviously can be judge much easier, but trying to judge putting in an extra bol on a 3 min fight is well more than I'm willing to do.</P> <P>however if its down to the last couple of seconds a mob is going to live, it becomes a choice, nay a battle, to figure out which spell to cast last, that will </P> <P>1. land on mob and not get "target not alive message"</P> <P>2. will do the most damage while still obeying #1</P> <P> </P> <P>obviously a dot isn't a prime spell to use, nor is a long cast time one, exceptions to the rule are if you only have a 1s timeframe casting firey convultions (or sunstrike with kos/eof aa's at 1.25s) would be beneficial in this case as the fight ends and dot ticks wont be counted.  while obvious to me this may not be obvious for others.</P>

Zyphius
12-13-2006, 09:06 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <DIV>This thread has turned into a prime example of why I don't really bother trying to convince people how to improve their DPS.  Some people will do the math incorrectly and no matter what you tell them they won't listen.  The only thing that really bothers me about letting them continue down the wrong path is that they come back to these same boards and complain about their DPS.  Other than that, it doesn't really bother me that they remain the way they are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I might as well add something of value though, instead of just making a whine post, so here it goes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone said that you should never consider the recast time of a spell when deciding spell order.  I agree, for the most part.  There is an exception to this though.  If you know that the recast of a spell is so long that you won't be able to cast it more than one more time, it doesn't matter if you cast it next so long as you cast it before the mob dies.  This may be the difference between casting one extra Ball of Lava or two extra Ball of Lava.  Being able to do this relies on a very important skill though: The ability to judge how long it will take for the mob to die.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>agreed dehah, and the reason why people should not "theoretically calculate dps" is for that reason.  Every fight is different on a raid with 24 people, one mob with 1mil hp may die in 40s 1 min 1 min 30s it depends on what abilities are up who's paying attention ect.</P> <P>it comes down to the player to decide, long refresh spells that may be possible to use 2x in a fight such as ice nova, obviously can be judge much easier, but trying to judge putting in an extra bol on a 3 min fight is well more than I'm willing to do.</P> <P>however if its down to the last couple of seconds a mob is going to live, it becomes a choice, nay a battle, to figure out which spell to cast last, that will </P> <P>1. land on mob and not get "target not alive message"</P> <P>2. will do the most damage while still obeying #1</P> <P> </P> <P>obviously a dot isn't a prime spell to use, nor is a long cast time one, exceptions to the rule are if you only have a 1s timeframe casting firey convultions (or sunstrike with kos/eof aa's at 1.25s) would be beneficial in this case as the fight ends and dot ticks wont be counted.  while obvious to me this may not be obvious for others.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Agree with everything you two have said.. however, just for flavor I'd like to add that I have used a dot before as the kill shot, lol

HippyKnight
12-13-2006, 10:54 AM
<DIV>just a small tip wrt firestorm vs sunstrike when you intend to end the fight with a manaburn </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>using values from the wiz spell list..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>firestorm does 5.1pts of dmg per pt of power consumed</DIV> <DIV>sunstrike does 10pts per pt of power consumed</DIV> <DIV>manaburn + 24% freehand does 6.2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(all of these will scale with 8% brainstorm but manaburn wont scale with +int)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you intend on ending the fight (single target) with a manaburn do not cast firestorm at all.. you are better off casting nothing than firestorm vs a single target because the power you save from not casting firestorm will do more damage in the manaburn at the end.. you might as well be healing the mob... however since sunstrike does 10pts per pt of power consumed you are better off  filling the blanks with sunstrike..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>basically without manaburn the dps of a spell would be (max+min)/2x(castingtime+recoverytime)</DIV> <DIV>with manaburn the dps of a spell could be calculated as ((max+min)/2-(6.2xpowercost))/(castingtime+recoverytime)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this gives a negative dps to firestorm .. essentially a heal...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(sorry this post has been blank for a week or so .. was going to write more at the time but got bored and went off to play the game and forgot about it.. for some reason it submitted anyways...)</DIV> <P>Message Edited by HippyKnight on <SPAN class=date_text>12-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:54 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by HippyKnight on <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:39 AM</span>

22224446
03-10-2007, 04:06 AM
<p>advices from a (semi) raid leader:</p><p>advice no. 1.: keep spamming feeking deaggro spell!</p><p>advice no. 2.: read advice no. 1.</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Stone Rhino
05-16-2007, 11:20 AM
<p>Been reading most of the posts in here ( some seem to be a bit repetitive ) and i noticed quite a few differences in my and your ppls casting.</p><p>Please keep in mind when i raid it's in general with another Guild since mine is a whole 4 ppl big. So i not always know how "good" the tank is ( and i had Pallys tank Labs where a drew agro with Irradiate casted when the mob was down to 80% and haven't casted anything before that... )</p><p>Previously i was on a casting that involved: </p><p>BoL-Suns-Inca-Suns-BoL-Suns-Irrad-Suns-BoL ( throw in IN when i felt it to be "safe" to cast it without getting agro ),</p><p>Since that gave me for the whole time always a near perfect timing for BoL to be up. But since most say Suns is not a smart thing to do i changed it to something like this, though i still work on getting it into a smoother, continous, flow: </p><p>Rend Ici - Irradiate - BoL - Cata+FHS+IN - Irrad - BoL - Suns - Incap - Irrad - BoL - Suns / Rend Ici - etc etc</p><p>Now i see alot saying Firestorm or Fusion, but my question to those are how do you ppl get so fast close enough to cast them and get out of the melee AE of the mob you fight to justify the time for the running to and from the mob it takes?</p><p>What i mean i stay normally at max range for Incap so i would run in to like 5m, cast Firestorm, run out again to Incap Range and rejoin casting. Wouldn't that take way too long in which i could cast other spells instead that. Or are you guys staying next to the mob and take the AE pounding ( most tend to kill me though with one hit ) ?</p>

IllusiveThoughts
05-16-2007, 06:29 PM
Stone Rhino wrote: <blockquote><p>Now i see alot saying Firestorm or Fusion, but my question to those are how do you ppl get so fast close enough to cast them and get out of the melee AE of the mob you fight to justify the time for the running to and from the mob it takes?</p><p>What i mean i stay normally at max range for Incap so i would run in to like 5m, cast Firestorm, run out again to Incap Range and rejoin casting. Wouldn't that take way too long in which i could cast other spells instead that. Or are you guys staying next to the mob and take the AE pounding ( most tend to kill me though with one hit ) ?</p></blockquote><p> Fusion is definately worth the time it takes to line it up, and the more you do it the faster you are at it, also as you get to know the MT you will get a feel for how he turns mobs so you can even begin to stand in a spot where all you have to do is run straight ahead and fusion and back out.  </p><p>Firestorm is generally a bonus, there ARE plenty of mobs without mele ae's which afford you the luxury of </p><p>#1 using auto attack</p><p>#2 using all the close range spells with 0 dps loss from moving in-out</p><p>The other option is to just eat the ae, if you have enough HP/mit/spell mit to take he ae on the chin and healers who are willing to heal you, then by all means stand in there and spam firestorm!</p>

hammerfil
05-26-2007, 07:44 PM
<p>Alright guys just curious ive been raiding for awhile and I zoned into DT last night with a diff guild. I had 0 deaggro on me. I mean none. I died 14 times. My dps was anywhere from 1000-1350 whenever I went past 1350 BAM dead.. J/C is this bout the right dps w/out deaggro?</p>

IllusiveThoughts
05-26-2007, 10:25 PM
<cite>hammerfil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Alright guys just curious ive been raiding for awhile and I zoned into DT last night with a diff guild. I had 0 deaggro on me. I mean none. I died 14 times. My dps was anywhere from 1000-1350 whenever I went past 1350 BAM dead.. J/C is this bout the right dps w/out deaggro?</p></blockquote> sounds about right. 

hammerfil
05-27-2007, 12:11 AM
<p>1500-2300 with amends sound right?</p>

IllusiveThoughts
05-27-2007, 03:34 PM
<cite>hammerfil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1500-2300 with amends sound right?</p></blockquote> 2K+ if you want the paly to be tanking the raids <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />