AGRO problems please help!!!!!

[richie]

<DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want to begin this post with saying thank you to everyone who helped me increase my DPS.  Which leads me to my new issues.  I was on a raid in halls of seeing and Labs yesterday and died between the 2 a total of 15 times.  Anytime my DPS is over 900 I am pulling agro.  I know alot of is the group make up, so my question is how do you avoid pulling agro due good DPS in a bad group makeup.  To explain my situation a little bit further I am going to provide some details.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First the raid consists of about 1 paladin, combination of about 5 berserkers and shadownights, 6 healers atleast 1 from each type of healer, 2 rangers, 1 illusionist, and all the rest were wizards.  There was a Brigand for the 2nd raid. Neither were full 4 group raids</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Raid 1 HOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, illusionist, 1 wizard(not me), and 3 healers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>my group had 1 healer, 1 berserker, 2 wizards, and ranger</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Raid 2 Lab trash run</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, brigand, wizard(was not me), and 3 healers</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Group 2 had plate(don't remeber what kind), illusionist, healer, ranger, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>my group again plate, healer, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know the setup for my group is crap, but I can not do anything about that besides adjust nuke timing.  I did the best I could do at avoiding pulling agro and landing high DPS, but I kept pulling agro and dieing(of course).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would start out slow with lower DPS spell, but it seemed not to work.  Below is a rough sketch of spell order, but it varies on fight and spell availability.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>single mob:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>wait about 2 sec. then Rending Icicles, iceshield, irraditate, ball of lava, firestorm, freehand + inferno surge+ice comet, ice shield, ball of lava, irraditate, firestorm (some fights I am dead by now)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>group mobs:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, forge of ro, freehand glacial winds, firestorm, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava, firestorm (me dead)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>I understand dieing on the group mobs with the spell order so I changed it a bit, but still died here is what the last one I was using</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, rending icicles, iceshield, ball of lava, irraditate, forge of ro, firestorm, freehand+glacial wind, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava (me dead).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was not always that I would die, because healer would heal me in time and tank would get agro back faster sometimes, but I was pulling agro almost on every fight.  On the fights I did survive I was 2nd on parse, of course being beat by wiz in group 1.  On the parses I died I was about dead middle.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong, besides the obvious bad group setup.  How can I minimize agro and still parse high in a crappy group setup?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I appreciate your help with this new problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> richie72 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want to begin this post with saying thank you to everyone who helped me increase my DPS.  Which leads me to my new issues.  I was on a raid in halls of seeing and Labs yesterday and died between the 2 a total of 15 times.  Anytime my DPS is over 900 I am pulling agro.  I know alot of is the group make up, so my question is how do you avoid pulling agro due good DPS in a bad group makeup.  To explain my situation a little bit further I am going to provide some details.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First the raid consists of about 1 paladin, combination of about 5 berserkers and shadownights, 6 healers atleast 1 from each type of healer, 2 rangers, 1 illusionist, and all the rest were wizards.  There was a Brigand for the 2nd raid. Neither were full 4 group raids</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Raid 1 HOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, illusionist, 1 wizard(not me), and 3 healers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>my group had 1 healer, 1 berserker, 2 wizards, and ranger</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Raid 2 Lab trash run</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, brigand, wizard(was not me), and 3 healers</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Group 2 had plate(don't remeber what kind), illusionist, healer, ranger, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>my group again plate, healer, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know the setup for my group is crap, but I can not do anything about that besides adjust nuke timing.  I did the best I could do at avoiding pulling agro and landing high DPS, but I kept pulling agro and dieing(of course).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would start out slow with lower DPS spell, but it seemed not to work.  Below is a rough sketch of spell order, but it varies on fight and spell availability.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>single mob:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>wait about 2 sec. then Rending Icicles, iceshield, irraditate, ball of lava, firestorm, freehand + inferno surge+ice comet, ice shield, ball of lava, irraditate, firestorm (some fights I am dead by now)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>group mobs:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, forge of ro, freehand glacial winds, firestorm, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava, firestorm (me dead)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>I understand dieing on the group mobs with the spell order so I changed it a bit, but still died here is what the last one I was using</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, rending icicles, iceshield, ball of lava, irraditate, forge of ro, firestorm, freehand+glacial wind, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava (me dead).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was not always that I would die, because healer would heal me in time and tank would get agro back faster sometimes, but I was pulling agro almost on every fight.  On the fights I did survive I was 2nd on parse, of course being beat by wiz in group 1.  On the parses I died I was about dead middle.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong, besides the obvious bad group setup.  How can I minimize agro and still parse high in a crappy group setup?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I appreciate your help with this new problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>guardians have a buff called moderate.  it at adept 3 will reduce your hate gain by 33% and m1 38%.</P> <P>make sure you get this buff, </P> <P>also your not using concussive and ceace, I actually use the two spells together.</P> <P>make sure your hate reduction aa familliar is out (gargoyle, need 1 handed staff)</P> <P>if you dont already have the skywatchers robe go farm it.  the mob spawns ever 2.5 hours on the dot, its off templegrounds in tenerborus tangle.</P> <P>make the illusionist give you synergism (its cross raid castable) and it de-agros more than it deals dmg.  its small but it will help you.</P> <P>with moderate on you at adept 3 at least you should be okay with using ice nova every time it refreshes.  without any of those buffs or de-agro tools, and using concussive / ceace when ever it refreshes</P> <P>although your raid is poorly set up for hate gain on MT, without a dirge / coercer in the MT group you may be forced to not use ice nova or aoe on any encounter or risk dieing.  This is a known issue for ALL sorcerors, and according to some forum flamers that is balanced.  I say its a crock of **** but for now your going to have to deal with it.</P>

[SalBlu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> richie72 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want to begin this post with saying thank you to everyone who helped me increase my DPS.  Which leads me to my new issues.  I was on a raid in halls of seeing and Labs yesterday and died between the 2 a total of 15 times.  Anytime my DPS is over 900 I am pulling agro.  I know alot of is the group make up, so my question is how do you avoid pulling agro due good DPS in a bad group makeup.  To explain my situation a little bit further I am going to provide some details.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First the raid consists of about 1 paladin, combination of about 5 berserkers and shadownights, 6 healers atleast 1 from each type of healer, 2 rangers, 1 illusionist, and all the rest were wizards.  There was a Brigand for the 2nd raid. Neither were full 4 group raids</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Raid 1 HOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, illusionist, 1 wizard(not me), and 3 healers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>my group had 1 healer, 1 berserker, 2 wizards, and ranger</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Raid 2 Lab trash run</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, brigand, wizard(was not me), and 3 healers</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Group 2 had plate(don't remeber what kind), illusionist, healer, ranger, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>my group again plate, healer, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know the setup for my group is crap, but I can not do anything about that besides adjust nuke timing.  I did the best I could do at avoiding pulling agro and landing high DPS, but I kept pulling agro and dieing(of course).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would start out slow with lower DPS spell, but it seemed not to work.  Below is a rough sketch of spell order, but it varies on fight and spell availability.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>single mob:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>wait about 2 sec. then Rending Icicles, iceshield, irraditate, ball of lava, firestorm, freehand + inferno surge+ice comet, ice shield, ball of lava, irraditate, firestorm (some fights I am dead by now)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>group mobs:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, forge of ro, freehand glacial winds, firestorm, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava, firestorm (me dead)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>I understand dieing on the group mobs with the spell order so I changed it a bit, but still died here is what the last one I was using</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, rending icicles, iceshield, ball of lava, irraditate, forge of ro, firestorm, freehand+glacial wind, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava (me dead).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was not always that I would die, because healer would heal me in time and tank would get agro back faster sometimes, but I was pulling agro almost on every fight.  On the fights I did survive I was 2nd on parse, of course being beat by wiz in group 1.  On the parses I died I was about dead middle.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong, besides the obvious bad group setup.  How can I minimize agro and still parse high in a crappy group setup?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I appreciate your help with this new problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>For one... in all of your spell listings i'm not seeing a single one of your hate reducers cast.  All I see in your listing is a number of nukes.</P> <P>You have Cease and Concussive at your disposal at your lvl.  These should be used when they pop up.  Concussive is a hog for cast time, so even the casting of it, it lowers your hate... and yes lowers your DPS a little.  Cease is extremely fast casting, so you should pound that whenever it pops back up.</P> <P>Bottom line is... from what you're showing, you need to add some of your own aggro control into the mix.  Cease and Concussive can be thrown in a battle fairly readily, and you can go ahead and cast our oh so awesome Accord spell on someone to transfer the uber 2-3% hate, dependant upon Ad3 or M1.</P>

[richie]

<DIV> <P>Thank you for the Information.</P> <P>I forgot to add later in the raid I started using concussive, was rarely using cease so I will start using it.  Even when using them it seemed they were not helping much at all.  Aren't both of these spells only for single mob hate reduction, or do they work for group mobs?   </P> <P>I have both robes but I am wearing the X'Haviz's Gown of Glory, should I swap this one and use the skywatchers robe?  I thought the X'Haviz's Gown of Glory was suppose to be better.</P></DIV>

[SalBlu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> richie72 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Thank you for the Information.</P> <P>I forgot to add later in the raid I started using concussive, was rarely using cease so I will start using it.  Even when using them it seemed they were not helping much at all.  Aren't both of these spells only for single mob hate reduction, or do they work for group mobs?   </P> <P>I have both robes but I am wearing the X'Haviz's Gown of Glory, should I swap this one and use the skywatchers robe?  I thought the X'Haviz's Gown of Glory was suppose to be better.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They are two different types of robes.  X'Haviz's Gown of Glory has a power proc that will return power while the Skywatcher's Robe has a dehate proc attached to it.  If you're having alot of trouble controlling your aggro, then yeah... definitely switch to the Skywatcher.  Anything that can help control will be better in the end.

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shaidown]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> richie72 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want to begin this post with saying thank you to everyone who helped me increase my DPS.  Which leads me to my new issues.  I was on a raid in halls of seeing and Labs yesterday and died between the 2 a total of 15 times.  Anytime my DPS is over 900 I am pulling agro.  I know alot of is the group make up, so my question is how do you avoid pulling agro due good DPS in a bad group makeup.  To explain my situation a little bit further I am going to provide some details.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First the raid consists of about 1 paladin, combination of about 5 berserkers and shadownights, 6 healers atleast 1 from each type of healer, 2 rangers, 1 illusionist, and all the rest were wizards.  There was a Brigand for the 2nd raid. Neither were full 4 group raids</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Raid 1 HOS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, illusionist, 1 wizard(not me), and 3 healers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>my group had 1 healer, 1 berserker, 2 wizards, and ranger</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Raid 2 Lab trash run</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Main group had paly, shadownight, brigand, wizard(was not me), and 3 healers</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Group 2 had plate(don't remeber what kind), illusionist, healer, ranger, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>my group again plate, healer, 2 wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know the setup for my group is crap, but I can not do anything about that besides adjust nuke timing.  I did the best I could do at avoiding pulling agro and landing high DPS, but I kept pulling agro and dieing(of course).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would start out slow with lower DPS spell, but it seemed not to work.  Below is a rough sketch of spell order, but it varies on fight and spell availability.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>single mob:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff>wait about 2 sec. then Rending Icicles, iceshield, irraditate, ball of lava, firestorm, freehand + inferno surge+ice comet, ice shield, ball of lava, irraditate, firestorm (some fights I am dead by now)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>group mobs:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, forge of ro, freehand glacial winds, firestorm, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava, firestorm (me dead)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>I understand dieing on the group mobs with the spell order so I changed it a bit, but still died here is what the last one I was using</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff>frigid gift, rending icicles, iceshield, ball of lava, irraditate, forge of ro, firestorm, freehand+glacial wind, electrifying flash, firestorm, ball of lava (me dead).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was not always that I would die, because healer would heal me in time and tank would get agro back faster sometimes, but I was pulling agro almost on every fight.  On the fights I did survive I was 2nd on parse, of course being beat by wiz in group 1.  On the parses I died I was about dead middle.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong, besides the obvious bad group setup.  How can I minimize agro and still parse high in a crappy group setup?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I appreciate your help with this new problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>One other thing about your casting order, at least, what I do is:</P> <P>I always start with iceshield, then debuff, then Protoferno, firestorm, irradiate, incapacitate, Ball of Lava, Ice nova, Sunstrike (or whatever its called), Iceshield again, power regen, then start over with debuff, and my dots.</P> <P>usually only cast protoferno once per fight unless it is a really long one.   I'll use fusion on second rotation unless the mob has a nasty 360 AOE. and using fusion on second rotation eats up the nova recast.</P> <P>I find building my nukes from lowest to highest after laying my dots works best for me.   Dont count protoferno out because of its long cast time, if the mob doesnt have a big AOE then it will act like a very nice 45 second DoT.  also, Firestorm and Irradiate take almost no time to cast and do a lot of damage over their times....using both in every rotation will add a lot of DPS, and very little aggro is accrued because it is in small amounts, but the dps payoff is huge.  I do not use either of our AEs because they take more time to cast than I like, and the tradeoff isnt worth it to me on single mobs.  and I'll never use them on grouped mobs.  Im always concentrating on the MT or the MA and wont stray from their target.</P> <P>if I have a troubador in my group, I wont use the power regen (cant remember the spell name) at all, but without one I can maintain about 1k dps using the above, and roughly 1200+dps if I have a trouby</P> <P> </P>

[Shaidown]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix

[Faheuc]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>did your MT group have a dirge/coercer? hate buffs from those classes onto the mt help as well.

[Shaidown]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rebootrequired wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>did your MT group have a dirge/coercer? hate buffs from those classes onto the mt help as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah...the MT group ALWAYS has a dirge....and that'll help</P> <P>sometimes a coercer too....but that's the same player as the other wizard....who does better than me because he's all mastered out....and Im only AD3'd</P> <P>However, in my group I had neither a Pally, a coercer, a troub or a guardian....</P> <P> </P> <P>Honestly.....aggro is only a problem for the poor warlocks......the MT is a pally, which does loads for aggro control</P><p>Message Edited by Shaidown on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:08 PM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rebootrequired wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>did your MT group have a dirge/coercer? hate buffs from those classes onto the mt help as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah...the MT group ALWAYS has a dirge....and that'll help</P> <P>sometimes a coercer too....but that's the same player as the other wizard....who does better than me because he's all mastered out....and Im only AD3'd</P> <P>However, in my group I had neither a Pally, a coercer, a troub or a guardian....</P> <P> </P> <P>Honestly.....aggro is only a problem for the poor warlocks......the MT is a pally, which does loads for aggro control</P> <P>Message Edited by Shaidown on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I find paly MT's do not hold aoe agro very well.  singletargets they do just fine, but on aoe's with the change to deathmarch I think sk's are better in this department.

[Shaidown]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rebootrequired wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>did your MT group have a dirge/coercer? hate buffs from those classes onto the mt help as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah...the MT group ALWAYS has a dirge....and that'll help</P> <P>sometimes a coercer too....but that's the same player as the other wizard....who does better than me because he's all mastered out....and Im only AD3'd</P> <P>However, in my group I had neither a Pally, a coercer, a troub or a guardian....</P> <P> </P> <P>Honestly.....aggro is only a problem for the poor warlocks......the MT is a pally, which does loads for aggro control</P> <P>Message Edited by Shaidown on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I find paly MT's do not hold aoe agro very well.  singletargets they do just fine, but on aoe's with the change to deathmarch I think sk's are better in this department.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've never met an Sk that could MT a raid.  Not saying they cant....it's just that most SK gear Ive seen lends too much to INT and not enough to STA and AGI.</P> <P>i think the highest Miti Ive seen on an SK was about 4500 in def stance (unbuffed by others)</P> <P>and honestly.....Ive never seen a problem with this particular Pally holding aggro....as Im levelling a Pally right now for near the same purpose.  I'll ask him what AA lines he took.</P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rebootrequired wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>did your MT group have a dirge/coercer? hate buffs from those classes onto the mt help as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah...the MT group ALWAYS has a dirge....and that'll help</P> <P>sometimes a coercer too....but that's the same player as the other wizard....who does better than me because he's all mastered out....and Im only AD3'd</P> <P>However, in my group I had neither a Pally, a coercer, a troub or a guardian....</P> <P> </P> <P>Honestly.....aggro is only a problem for the poor warlocks......the MT is a pally, which does loads for aggro control</P> <P>Message Edited by Shaidown on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I find paly MT's do not hold aoe agro very well.  singletargets they do just fine, but on aoe's with the change to deathmarch I think sk's are better in this department.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've never met an Sk that could MT a raid.  Not saying they cant....it's just that most SK gear Ive seen lends too much to INT and not enough to STA and AGI.</P> <P>i think the highest Miti Ive seen on an SK was about 4500 in def stance (unbuffed by others)</P> <P>and honestly.....Ive never seen a problem with this particular Pally holding aggro....as Im levelling a Pally right now for near the same purpose.  I'll ask him what AA lines he took.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>you my friend have never met naldir.  look up sarasoon on these forums.</P> <P>with one healer he can self buff his mit to 6k, holds agro at a steady 1500 single target dps with only a coercer for hate gain, and spikes by me up to 1.8k with NO hate reduction on myself. with temp / defiler has about 10.8k raid buffed hp.</P> <P>he also can hold 2K on aoe targets and spikes of 2500(again by me), and after the change to deathmarch use this after a 3 mob fusion hit by me and immidiately pull agro back, or not draw agro at all.</P> <P>he routinely parses 800-1100 while MT'ing on aoe encounters.</P>

[Shaidown]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rebootrequired wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaidown wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>basicly, to do decent dps and not pull agro you NEED to either have a guardian, paladin or troubadour in your group to put their deagro on you, or at very minimun a coercer put harmonious link on you</DIV> <DIV>without at least ONE of these skills you will be doomed to sub par dps or suicide bombing</DIV> <DIV>best bet is to stack like all of those lol, then maybe you can chain nuke without pulling agro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I disagree...ive been in a group comprised of a warlock, 2 wizards, and an inquisitor and done better than 900 dps on Suffering in HoS.....and that is with adding the power feed into the mix<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>did your MT group have a dirge/coercer? hate buffs from those classes onto the mt help as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah...the MT group ALWAYS has a dirge....and that'll help</P> <P>sometimes a coercer too....but that's the same player as the other wizard....who does better than me because he's all mastered out....and Im only AD3'd</P> <P>However, in my group I had neither a Pally, a coercer, a troub or a guardian....</P> <P> </P> <P>Honestly.....aggro is only a problem for the poor warlocks......the MT is a pally, which does loads for aggro control</P> <P>Message Edited by Shaidown on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I find paly MT's do not hold aoe agro very well.  singletargets they do just fine, but on aoe's with the change to deathmarch I think sk's are better in this department.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've never met an Sk that could MT a raid.  Not saying they cant....it's just that most SK gear Ive seen lends too much to INT and not enough to STA and AGI.</P> <P>i think the highest Miti Ive seen on an SK was about 4500 in def stance (unbuffed by others)</P> <P>and honestly.....Ive never seen a problem with this particular Pally holding aggro....as Im levelling a Pally right now for near the same purpose.  I'll ask him what AA lines he took.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>you my friend have never met naldir.  look up sarasoon on these forums.</P> <P>with one healer he can self buff his mit to 6k, holds agro at a steady 1500 single target dps with only a coercer for hate gain, and spikes by me up to 1.8k with NO hate reduction on myself. with temp / defiler has about 10.8k raid buffed hp.</P> <P>he also can hold 2K on aoe targets and spikes of 2500(again by me), and after the change to deathmarch use this after a 3 mob fusion hit by me and immidiately pull agro back, or not draw agro at all.</P> <P>he routinely parses 800-1100 while MT'ing on aoe encounters.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That sir, is one helluva SK