Best DPS Spell Order in Raid for T7 DPS to beat Necros and Assasins?

[rackman]

<DIV>When Clearing the Lyceum I kept getting my  butt kicked by the Assasins and Necros</DIV> <DIV>on the DPS parser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a T7 Serious Raiding guild</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the time I am in a group with out a Paly or Agro Reducer so I have to watch spell pattern</DIV> <DIV>or we all know the result </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have All Relic Gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL   Adept 3 and Master 1 Nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Signed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tired By beng Taunted by the Scouts and Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards Unite!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by rackman on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:07 AM</span>

[SalBlu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rackman wrote:<BR> <DIV>When Clearing the Lyceum I kept getting my  butt kicked by the Assasins and Necros</DIV> <DIV>on the DPS parser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a T7 Serious Raiding guild</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the time I am in a group with out a Paly or Agro Reducer so I have to watch spell pattern</DIV> <DIV>or we all know the result </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have All Relic Gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL   Adept 3 and Master 1 Nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Signed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tired By beng Taunted by the Scouts and Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards Unite!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by rackman on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why would it be bad to count these together.  The damage is till coming from the same source, ie, the summoner who cast the pet.  The pet is just an extension of the player.<BR>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rackman wrote:<BR> <DIV>When Clearing the Lyceum I kept getting my  butt kicked by the Assasins and Necros</DIV> <DIV>on the DPS parser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a T7 Serious Raiding guild</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the time I am in a group with out a Paly or Agro Reducer so I have to watch spell pattern</DIV> <DIV>or we all know the result </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have All Relic Gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL   Adept 3 and Master 1 Nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Signed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tired By beng Taunted by the Scouts and Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards Unite!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by rackman on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>why dont you start with what you did for the zone parse and what the necro and assasin did for the zone parse,</P> <P>and list your group make up and MT group make up.  And aa choice, Then we can help you.</P><p>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 AM</span>

[Shaidown]

<P>You wanna know my T7 Raid Spell order?</P> <P> </P> <P>Ok here it is</P> <P>F11, F7, F3, F8, F9, F2, F6, F5, F1, F11, Mouse Click, F7, F8, F9, F2, F5, F6, F10, F11 (and repeats) unless I dont have a trouby, then it goes </P> <P> </P> <P>F11, F7, F3, F8, F9, F2, F6, F5, F1, F11, Mouse Click, Mouse Click,  F7, F8, F9, F2, F5, F6, F10, F11, Mouse Click (and repeats)</P> <P> </P> <P>hope that helped some</P>

[Melseb]

<div><blockquote><hr>Shaidown wrote:<div></div> <p>You wanna know my T7 Raid Spell order?</p> <p>Ok here it is</p> <p>F11, F7, F3, F8, F9, F2, F6, F5, F1, F11, Mouse Click, F7, F8, F9, F2, F5, F6, F10, F11 (and repeats) unless I dont have a trouby, then it goes </p> <p>F11, F7, F3, F8, F9, F2, F6, F5, F1, F11, Mouse Click, Mouse Click,  F7, F8, F9, F2, F5, F6, F10, F11, Mouse Click (and repeats)</p> <p>hope that helped some</p><hr></blockquote>hahahahahahahahaha</div>

[The Ban]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rackman wrote:<BR> <DIV>When Clearing the Lyceum I kept getting my  butt kicked by the Assasins and Necros</DIV> <DIV>on the DPS parser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a T7 Serious Raiding guild</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the time I am in a group with out a Paly or Agro Reducer so I have to watch spell pattern</DIV> <DIV>or we all know the result </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have All Relic Gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL   Adept 3 and Master 1 Nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Signed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tired By beng Taunted by the Scouts and Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards Unite!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by rackman on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't mean to sound  harsh or anything, but if your necro knows what he is doing there is really no way you can beat him.</P> <P>Think my high for lyceum is like 1600 ish whereas necros can get 1900-2000 fairly often. I really just can't see a spell order bumping any wizard up into necro range.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now the assassin maybe in i zone like lyceum cause wizards outperform assassins on AoE encounters. How much DPS is your assassin doing? What was his zonewide parse?</P>

[Koehianna]

<div><blockquote><hr>rackman wrote:<div></div> <div>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</div><hr></blockquote>Why's that wrong??  <span>:smileyindifferent:</span></div>

[vortfu]

Put anomalism on the scout / necros pet ... duh ;pvortfu

[Admh]

    Easy... Cast Catalyst + freehand sorcery + Fusion on 3 mobs. (no aggro) Land 25k+ on all 3, then drop forge of ro, Ice nova, ball of lava, and recycle your ae's etc.If you don't die doing this, you'll beat them. if you do, that just shows you how [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up our class is. We can actually beat other classes however, we have to die trying to beat them.<div></div>

[BenjaminCla]

<div></div>We raid about 5 nights a week, all the T7 zones (Labs, Lyc, HoS, ToS, DT) and I have Ad3 for all nukes/dots except M1 BoL/Irradiate and I generally have a Troub in my group and occasionally am blessed with Synergism from one of our Illusionists.  I know some mobs just resist heat and cold more so DPS varies, but I hit on the low end 800 DPS and on the high end 1600 DPS.  On a good, steady night when I am focused, I average 1100-1500 solid for the night.  Considering the utlity and buffs i have, I'm content doing 1100-1500 when I'm firing on all cylanders.  As far as spell casting order?  You'd have to consider so many other aspects of your raid force and what you were fighting...you can't just say "this is my spell order, and regardless of encounter I'm sticking to it".  If you fight single mobs, and your raid DPS is low (say 8-10K) then you have one style...single mobs with mad raid DPS (say 14-17K) you will have to change it up so you can land your biggest shots.  Are you fighting groups?  Are you saavy enough to pull off Fusion on multiple targets without pulling agro?  Are you using your hate reducers correctly?  are you making sure there are always dots on the mobs?  hope to god you are using rending icicles before your biggest shots, that should be on whatever mob you are nuking almost constantly.  What are your AA lines?  what can you do to cast more spells faster with les power using AA lines? Wizards can and SHOULD parse 1200+ consistently. So necros can hit 2K, whatever.  Fact is, if you are reading this, you play a T7 Wizard and probably raid (and arent deleting your 70 wiz anytime soon), and you *can* hit 1200...1500...even 1600+ if you really read your spell descriptions, factor in casting times, debuffs, whole raid makeup, and use your hate reducers right and get as much proc gear as you can (easy stuff to get).But to answer your question bluntly, no I won't share my castnig order becasue there are just to many frikkin scenarios to list them all <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Hope this remotely helped <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><p>Message Edited by BenjaminClark on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:59 AM</span>

[ailees]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>There have been lots of discussions about damages in here already.Problem has been told : it depends on many factors.0/ what AA are you in ? the spell order is different for agility line and strengh one. Because with strengh you must wait for catalyst to cast IN or Fusion. If not you loose tons of damages.1/ agro management : a wizard is getting more agro than assasins and pet owners. This is a fact. You will never be the best damager if you don't have an external protection (pally/singer), whatever the casting order is... you'll die too much.2/ AE mobs or not ? group mobs or solo ?...  if you are fighting group mobs with low AE or without ae (labs, lyceum) use AE as much as you can. ... if you are using solo mobs or mobs with high AE (halls of seing) use DDs (and your DPS will go under any pet master who knows his job)3/ debuff ! your DPS varies also with who, in raid, debuf, and you can have to synchronyze with them : casting IN after a big debuff is worth waiting 5 seconds...Knowing all that, how to manage ?use <b>parsers</b>, and look at what you cast, and what result it gives. Try another combo in that same zone another day, compare again.let's take my own example : in may, I decided I was going big boom, and wanted to make as much damages as possible, even if I should die 10 times or more in a raid (to be honest, I'm allways in the 2/3 1st damagers of the raid, but I am allways the number one in death, or second when I slack)then I started parser, to compare with other wizards in my guild, and could modify my casting order. After one month of testing in labs, I increased my DPS by 1/3d (I increased total damages by more, but had to take into acount that the raid was going deeper in zone, then doing more damages also)here the full study <a href="http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/wizard.html" target="_blank">http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/wizard.html</a><p>Message Edited by ailees on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:02 AM</span>

[BlackAdderDr]

Your DPS is also tied to the actions of your raid force.  I have done independent and guild raids and seen a large discrepancy based upon classes present and debuffs on the mob.  In some setups I have no problem hitting 1200 consistently but in others I hover around 1k, spikes above this are always due to fusion landing on more than one mob, thats how we spike from what I have seen.  Is the ranger applying his snare called vines for 2k heat debuff? Is the brigand/warden debuffing for cold/heat. Coercers have a 1k all magic based debuff as well, add all these up with your rending icicles and forge of Ro and its easy to hit 1200dps without counting on dispatch or fusion.  My gear is not very good but I have all my t7 masters except for cardinal intromission, and I see my DPS bounce up and down from week to week, it depends *alot* on what the raid is doing, classes present.  -Acelia<div></div>

[hoosierdaddy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rackman wrote:<BR> <DIV>When Clearing the Lyceum I kept getting my  butt kicked by the Assasins and Necros</DIV> <DIV>on the DPS parser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a T7 Serious Raiding guild</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the time I am in a group with out a Paly or Agro Reducer so I have to watch spell pattern</DIV> <DIV>or we all know the result </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have All Relic Gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL   Adept 3 and Master 1 Nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Signed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tired By beng Taunted by the Scouts and Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards Unite!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by rackman on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why would it be bad to count these together.  The damage is till coming from the same source, ie, the summoner who cast the pet.  The pet is just an extension of the player.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If the pet is just an extension of the player, then why is the hate split between the summoner and his/her pet? I'm a warlock and that would be like me saying, my nukes are just an extension of me :smileyvery-happy: . </P> <P>"No, really (insert raid mob name here)! It wasn't me! it was my Apocalypse that did the damage." :smileytongue:</P> <P>Seriously, as a sorceror--even a Warlock, the supposed AoE masters--you'll be unlikely to approach a <STRONG>skilled</STRONG> summoner's numbers in most zonewide parses, and especially in zones with lots of mobs/encounter. The scales are tipped way in their favor in this department, and you have no hope of matching 'em most of the time, uness you're willing to die often in the attempt.</P> <P>Don't worry bout it. Reroll a summoner/rogue and you'll have everything you do now as a wizard, plus pets and coh/fd as a summoner, and, as a assassin/rogue: T1 dps, chain armor, evac, safefall, tracking, pathfinding, realistic deaggro buffs, etc.</P> <P>-Kai</P><p>Message Edited by hoosierdaddy on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span>

[Generic123]

<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>As people have said it depends on many factors.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The basic rule is if you are not mana limited is to estimate the total damage potential of your spells and cast the spell with the best damage/cast time ratio.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Power like catalyst and freehand get used on the biggest ticket spells, the ones like fusion or Ice Nova that provide to most damage in a single chunk.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>You may need to play around a bit to make sure you don’t back yourself into a corner with nothing good to cast and of course you need to manage your aggro so you don’t die but you have to figure this out on the fly. <SPAN> </SPAN>Remember, you will probably not be able to out DPS an assassin or conjurer without some specific classes helping you out.</FONT><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>

[Jay]

<P>Roll a ranger, no hate problems here! /sigh</P> <P><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[ailees]

no hate problems ? <font color="#ff0033"><b>I HATE  rangers</b><font color="#ffffff">well, maybe it is not  a problem... for them<span>:smileyhappy:</span></font></font><div></div>

[BlackAdderDr]

Kaeros. Cant you see this thread will end up deciding that nerfing rangers will solve our hate issues.  You know that classes get fixed by nerfing rangers. Easier for the devs to do that, than to balance each and every class in the game, much more efficient to nerf just one ;P/tongue-in-cheek-Acelia <div></div>

[Lakespookie]

<P>omg i rolled one please dont have her nurfed lol</P> <P>ahh who am i kiding im just hijacking  the thread to test my sig </P> <P>lol j/K</P>

[Tolerable]

<div></div>Well, I personally think something is screwed up when necros, Rangers can outdamage us.What does a wizard bring to any group or raid? DPS and....and....umm....oh yeah, DPS.I thought Wizard was supposed to be the king of DPS or was I mislead and it is just king of the largest BOOM of all classes once every 40 seconds?So a Necro can out DPS a wizard, while at the same time having a pet to do the tanking for him?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tolerable on <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

[TheBu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rackman wrote:<BR> <DIV>When Clearing the Lyceum I kept getting my  butt kicked by the Assasins and Necros</DIV> <DIV>on the DPS parser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Even though I think it kinda wrong that Necros name thier pets the same name as main Char and the get counted together on the DPS parser)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a T7 Serious Raiding guild</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of the time I am in a group with out a Paly or Agro Reducer so I have to watch spell pattern</DIV> <DIV>or we all know the result </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have All Relic Gear</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL   Adept 3 and Master 1 Nukes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Signed </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tired By beng Taunted by the Scouts and Necros</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards Unite!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by rackman on <SPAN class=date_text>09-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>kinda of a blind question...<BR>What your casting order?You casting aoes? Do you run out of power? Do you die? Are you tlaking about a 2-3 min fight?<BR></P> <P>ps as far as pets goes yours counts towards your dps, why not for a necro?...</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[BenjaminCla]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tolerable wrote:<div></div>Well, I personally think something is screwed up when necros, Rangers can outdamage us.What does a wizard bring to any group or raid? DPS and....and....umm....oh yeah, DPS.I thought Wizard was supposed to be the king of DPS or was I mislead and it is just king of the largest BOOM of all classes once every 40 seconds?So a Necro can out DPS a wizard, while at the same time having a pet to do the tanking for him?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tolerable on <span class="date_text">09-19-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:50 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Necros and Conjs do outDPS us, easily.  Not sure why that upsets people...did it say on the Everquest 2 box when you bought it "Includes the all-powerful big BOOM Wizard class!  Amaze your freinds and foes!"...no, it didn't, and although SOE mistakenly published the DPS tiers (which they later publically regretted), the fact is, the game is the way it is and these discussions are supposed to be ways to resolve or deal with things we perceive as "class problems" not just whine that certain classes are messed up.You ask what we bring to a raid?  Ask our MT who I powerfeed as many as ten times on a long fight if I bring something other than DPS to the raid.  Ask the scouts in my group who get their Int capped which results in poisons landing for more damage what we bring to a raid...ask any melee class if they like the STR we buff...and while you're at it ask them how they like Phoenixblade being cast on them which ups their DPS by 100-200 every fight....ask my group if they like my evac when we are wiping which helps them avoid yet another 10% ding to their repairs.  To say we bring nothing but DPS is a farce....it's SCOUTS that have that complaint, becasue aside brigands, scouts don't bring much to the table that the raid force benefits from - except DPS.  So you have that argument backwards, imo.A Necro with their tank pet should not be able to outDPS you, if he/she can, you are playing your Wizard wrong.Oh, and I know of only one Ranger who can outDPS me, and he doesn't outDPS me all the time, it's pretty close.  Genrally speaking I outDPS rangers, so not sure where you got that one unless its just based on personal experience (either you aren't a good wizard, or they are sucky rangers).</div>

[Jay]

<P>Nexroth outdamages me. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>(Not that it's really that hard, I'm a slacker.) </P> <P>Sorry to derail sorta, I didn't mean to throw rangers in the mix. You guys don't have much to fear from us. (/em coughs, points to summoners)</P> <P>Anyway, cross-class comparisons are pointless, IMO. Everything is too subjective (just ask who has more utility and watch the thousands of definitions of "utility" start flying), and the grass is always greener in the class that you don't play. </P> <P>Good luck getting your aggro problems resolved.</P>

[White Russi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BenjaminClark wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tolerable wrote:<BR> Well, I personally think something is screwed up when necros, Rangers can outdamage us.<BR><BR>What does a wizard bring to any group or raid? DPS and....and....umm....oh yeah, DPS.<BR><BR>I thought Wizard was supposed to be the king of DPS or was I mislead and it is just king of the largest BOOM of all classes once every 40 seconds?<BR><BR>So a Necro can out DPS a wizard, while at the same time having a pet to do the tanking for him?<BR> <P>Message Edited by Tolerable on <SPAN class=date_text>09-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:50 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Necros and Conjs do outDPS us, easily.  Not sure why that upsets people...did it say on the Everquest 2 box when you bought it "Includes the all-powerful big BOOM Wizard class!  Amaze your freinds and foes!"...no, it didn't, and although SOE mistakenly published the DPS tiers (which they later publically regretted), the fact is, the game is the way it is and these discussions are supposed to be ways to resolve or deal with things we perceive as "class problems" not just whine that certain classes are messed up.<BR><BR>You ask what we bring to a raid?  Ask our MT who I powerfeed as many as ten times on a long fight if I bring something other than DPS to the raid.  Ask the scouts in my group who get their Int capped which results in poisons landing for more damage what we bring to a raid...ask any melee class if they like the STR we buff...and while you're at it ask them how they like Phoenixblade being cast on them which ups their DPS by 100-200 every fight....ask my group if they like my evac when we are wiping which helps them avoid yet another 10% ding to their repairs.  To say we bring nothing but DPS is a farce....it's SCOUTS that have that complaint, becasue aside brigands, scouts don't bring much to the table that the raid force benefits from - except DPS.  So you have that argument backwards, imo.<BR><BR><STRONG>A Necro with their tank pet should not be able to outDPS you, if he/she can, you are playing your Wizard wrong.</STRONG><BR><BR>Oh, and I know of only one Ranger who can outDPS me, and he doesn't outDPS me all the time, it's pretty close.  Genrally speaking I outDPS rangers, so not sure where you got that one unless its just based on personal experience (either you aren't a good wizard, or they are sucky rangers).<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think when he mentioned out DPSing wizards and having a tank pet at the 'same time' the point is that they have a choice, if they want to solo they roll with the tank pet and its great. Then when they want DPS, change pets and boom, top of the parse by a country mile.</P> <P>I also have a 70 coercer so I know what utility is. Wizards are not utility. You mention feeding power to the Main Tank, how about a summoners ability to give mana hearts/shards?</P> <P>DPS tiers are there for game balance. In terms of pure DPS numbers I think we are pretty much about there, but we should be able to have a chance of coming top of the parse, not fighting it out for 3rd or 4th. I don't expect to be top all the time, I just want the opportunity, given the right circumstances and player skill to make it once in a while and stay with the pack, not be consistently out DPS'd by 500 or more. Class problems are when it comes to aggro management, which we are pitiful at, and power consumption. To get decent DPS I need to go full burn and go OOM far quicker than any other class.</P> <P>Right now, we have our specific class problems as listed above and I think the large discrepancy with DPS between certain classes makes that a part of our class problem too because our class is not where it should be. </P> <P> </P> <P>Sir Viko Din,</P> <P>Wizard of Evolution</P>

[Falcogen]

<P>Basically against a good one you can't win, you will win a few parses but a lyceum zonewide vs a necro/conjurer you will lose.</P> <P>My highest zonewide was owned by a certain conjurer.</P> <P>Just go for 2nd or third and be content if they slack you might win :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[MisterE]

<DIV>Okay i was trolling the forums looking for topics to read...  I am a necro for a good raiding guild on kithicor.  Arturos is my name.. lvl 70 necro been a necro since the start...  We have wizzies and warlocks in our raid force they are vital to the raid force for killing mobs/power feed u name it  the neat stuff a wizzy/warlock does i think its really cool.  Can you out dps a summoner?  perhaps... I know in our raids we try to protect the casters as much as possible by having the casters voice a warning in raid chat something to the effect of after the debuffs... incomming pain from me.. normally our off tanks will adjust and attempt to protect the mage cause we all know a dead mage does nobody any good.  We have a rule in the guild to name our pets name other than main names why? that silly message is why, that being said we also get to name our pets the same on mobs for fun and bragging rights...  Everyones high hit skills are up and ready and we all go for it free for all hitting as hard as we can ya a necro can get over 2k with tide and such, but man it sure is cool watching the wizzy toss the big bomber for 20k.. wow  is all i can say.  You as a wizzy want to out dps a certain class.. i recommend focusing on the raid as a whole not yourself..   ask yourself these questions, did the mob die? did you do everything you could to help kill said mob?? did you have fun doing it??  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> on a side note our glass cannons consistently parse near 1k for thier fights are they better than you?? dont think so  they are good but i think the raid support is better...  So instead of screaming nerf nerf nerf scream teamwork teamwork teamwork..  /rant off</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MisterE wrote:<BR> <DIV>Okay i was trolling the forums looking for topics to read... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> So instead of screaming nerf nerf nerf scream teamwork teamwork teamwork..  /rant off</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>great way to get people to listen to you.</P> <P> </P> <P>I did however read the whole thing, and you may have missed the mark the op was looking for.  Even though he has not posted yet, he's looking for help from other wizards on what he can do to help his raid dps.</P> <P>This helps everyone since 99% of the time thats alla  wizard is on the raid to do is dps.  If he's not doing his job up to par how is that having great teamwork?<BR></P>

[Falcogen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MisterE wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am a necro for a good raiding guild on kithicor.  Arturos is my name..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Good luck finding a guild, i hope playing ur class is better than your reading </P> <P>The OP wanted to know how to do more dps than assassins and summoners not how he could nerf them.</P>

[Shaidown]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ShaneFalco wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MisterE wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am a necro for a good raiding guild on kithicor.  Arturos is my name..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Good luck finding a guild, i hope playing ur class is better than your reading </P> <P>The OP wanted to know how to do more dps than assassins and summoners not how he could nerf them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>considering all the whining on this forum about how wizards dont do enough DPS, and usually those whines are aimed at nerfing summoners and scouts, i thought MisterE's post was pretty good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with him, our job is to kill.....fast....and as long as we are doing that to the best of our ability, then that should be enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that the point of this post is how can the OP do better DPS....but COME ON....READ THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING TOPIC!!!   it says, "Best DPS Spell Order in Raid for T7 DPS to beat Necros and Assasins? "  HOW can anyone NOT think that this is about summoners and scouts</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've barely been on the forums during my time in this game....and i decide to peruse while Im at work..and it's still nothing but whining....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>honestly.....there are so few people on here that will actually think about an opinion from a summoner, blinded by jealousy</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>do I like that summoners outdps me on raids?  no....but honestly, it doesnt happen all that often.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Summoners uncommonly pull too much aggro because their pet will be caught by an errant AOE and then the mob comes back, crunches the summoner, then heads back to the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yes...I can be outdps'd   but it doesnt bother me...just pushes me to do better</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>not only that....the necro IS in a raiding guild, as he says....so Shane.....maybe you should try reading as well</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>bloody babies on this forum</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>jesus</DIV>

[Falcogen]

<DIV>I can read, what i read is someone asking how they can beat a summoners/assassins dps in a raid</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I answered " you can't"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course you should do the best you can and like i already said if they slack or their pet bites it u will win. I dont care who comes top if i did i'd re roll my class !! I enjoy playing a wizard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So back on topic the OP said what can be done to maximise his dps and beat summoners assassins how people read this to equate to NERF NERF NERF is beyond me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>90% of posts on here are pretty constructive and helpful to any raiding wizard wanting to aspire to do better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You say the forum is full of bloody babies some whine yes but i havent seen people yelling nerf this that or anything else since we were mana batteries in T5</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The forums have improved a hell of alot with detailedparse threads damage AA specs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>whats to whinge about???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by ShaneFalco on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:12 PM</span>

[Lakespookie]

<P>ok guys put the flame bat away....(runs for cover)</P> <P>hey if a pet clas out dps's me once or twice in a raid i dont care u know why i dont have to die pet pulling have a nice day.... (endRant)</P>