Wizard issues according to one little gnome. (DPS issues and SOLUTIONS!) [Archive]

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Darien al'Staff

09-15-2006, 10:37 PM

First off, let me put this as a disclaimer: I feel that EQII was created as a PvE game, so the issues discussed will be PvE basedJ. I’ll let others deal with the PvP stuff. Furthermore, these suggestions are geared around raids, where I feel wizards are mostly in the lacking. Let’s face it, we are excellent soloers, and our group performance is alright. First off, let’s establish one thing: Wizards and Warlocks were meant to be Tier 1 DPS classes. That means at least TIED if not GREATER DPS then assassins, rangers, necros, conjs, etc. This has been stated BY Moore guard and the other devs. Am I going to go back and find the quote, no. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Others have already done so, and I don’t feel the need to affirm this statement. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Where does the problem come in? Simple. Right now, we ARE NOT Tier 1 dps, far from it. Wizards and Warlocks are consistently out parsed on raids (single or multiple target) by Assassins, Necromancers, Brigands, Swashbucklers, Conjs, Rangers, and occasionally even (gasp) Brusiers, Monks, and Zerkers!! Granted, are we ALWAYS out parsed by the upper classes. …No. Every once in a while, we’ll get a single-fight parse that barely beats them. But (assassins, brigands, and swashes especially) will consistently beat me by 200-300 dps per second. Now before you get all in a huff, saying I don’t know how to play my class, let me put forth a few credentials <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I’ve played my wizard since release…through live update 13 and beyond. My gear is quite decent (Not –quite- where I want it to be. I took a 5-ish month after the release of KoS) but still not bad, and getting to be where I want it. My spells are almost entirely Master 1 (The nukes I’m missing are fusion and sunstrike, and both are at Adept III). I’ve spent hours upon hours upon hours trying to decide the best and max damage rotations for my spells. I went down the Agi and Wisdom AA lines, and am almost finished. Would I call myself the best wizard in the world? No, but I would say that I know my class pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] well <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Alright, let’s get on to the issues. We know wizards are falling behind on the DPS trees. We know that Wizards don’t get much utility, and are squishy as all get out. We know that we are SUPPOSED to be both squishy and have little utility. Therefore, we must work on improving caster DPS without nerfing other classes. As such, the first step is to enumerate each of the reasons wizard/warlock DPS is low, and follow them up with a possible solution. <OL> <LI>Agro!!! It is widely known and accepted (rightly so, in my opinion) that wizards and warlocks have the biggest agro issues. Why is that? BURST DPS! We put out TRENENDOUS DPS bursts all at one time, thus drawing oh-so-hateful agro. In addition, we don’t have the agro-transfers that assassins, brigs and swashies have, which make their lives quite a bit easier. (And no, the 3% from the Anomalism update doesn’t count <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) True, we have spells like Cease and Concussive, but BOTH of these spells cost VALUABLE power and Concussive has a long cast timer, which takes away from our DPS. </LI></OL> Possible Solution? Honestly, there’s not too much I would do. One of the signature things about playing a wizard is being able to ride that fine line between CRAZY dps and…well…Squish J The tweaks I would make would be small. One, I’d reduce the power cost and recast times on Cease and Concussive. I would also significantly lower the cast time on Concussive…maybe by about half. The only other thing I would consider doing would be to bump anomalism up to somewhere between 5-10% hate transfer at master 1, and fix the stacking issues. <OL> <LI>Auto-Attack DPS Melee classes get this lovely little thing called auto-attack. That means, they can click a little button and watch as their toon smashes things over, and over, and over again. This can be quite a large source of dps for melees, and it doesn’t cost any power! This is one thing that CASTERS DON’T GET! And no, wacking monsters with our little sticks doesn’t count <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> To flesh this out more, Auto-attack provides two advantages for melees that are tipping the scales on the DPS charts.</LI> <OL> <LI>AUTO-ATTACK DOESN’T USE POWER! Everything a wizard or warlock does requires power. Melees can be at 0 or little power, and can continue to whack the mob for enough damage to be considered useful. </LI> <LI>Auto-Attack provides another line of DPS. While casters are reliant upon their spells, melee classes can take dps from both their arts/spells and their auto-attack, helping to spread out dps, prevent drawing of agro, and provide a constant and continuous stream of damage. </LI></OL></OL> Possible Solution? There have been a couple of suggestions in regards to this, the most notable of which would be to implement a sort of magic-wand auto-attack similar to what World of Warcraft uses. Frankly, I don’t like this idea. Another key feature to playing a wizard in EQII is the fact that we DO rely on power. You have to look at a classes ‘downsides’ to help make it unique as well. Honestly, I would leave this how it is. Let us rely on our spells and focus on other areas of improving our DPS. <OL> <LI>LACK OF ENHANCEMENT BUFFS!!!!!!!!!!! As you can probably already tell, it is this area that I think causes the most problems. Let’s look at them: Melees get all sorts of buffs. They get pretty little procs on their weapons that go boom when they hit (and they hit A LOT). Other classes cast spells on their weapons to make them go boom even more! Other classes cast buffs on them and their group, to make yet ANOTHER boom when their weapon hits. In addition, they also get –DPS- AND –HASTE- BUFFS TO THEIR AUTO-ATTACK!!! Tons of classes provide these buffs to dps and haste, increasing a melee classes damage by an INCREDIBLE amount! Wizards and warlocks have no compliment to this. Other than troubadours and illusionists who provide a measly buff or two that (sometimes) adds additional procs of damage when our spells go off, we’ve got nothing. This, in my opinion, is what causes 90% of the DPS issues with wizards/warlocks and other classes. Why has SoE not done something about this? Well they’re probably worried (and, in my opinion, rightly so) that wizards are going to become EVEN MORE teh00b3r soloers if given dps buffs to their gear. And, as I said, I can’t blame them. </LI></OL> Possible Solution? I’ve kicked this idea around quite a bit, and given it some serious thought. Frankly, I think that SoE should provide wizards and warlocks with a group-based self-only DPS buff. How does that work? Well, taking up 1 or 2 con slots, this buff would provide the wizard with a 2% dps increase to all of his spells etc for every person (besides himself) in his group. Therefore, in a 6 person group, he gets a 10% bonus! Awesome! If SoE is worried about overpowering wizards in group settings, bump it down to 1% in groups, 2% in raids (thus allowing wizards to still have the 10% in raids). If they think this is too little, bump up the percentage even more! This could become a STAPLE for wizards! In addition, to help with the agro issues that a 10% increase would cause, perhaps spread out part of it over the entire group. Ooh…now that would get interesting <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Call this spell…Arcane Channeling…or something spiffy like that. <OL> <LI>LONG cast and recast timers Another issue with wizzies and warlocks is the fact that our cast and (more importantly) recast timers are Sooo long. There are just a few that I would tweak with, however, bringing me to the inevitable:</LI></OL> Possible Solution? Just a few teaks. Increase the range on Fusion (slightly) and cut the timer around in half…maybe as long as 2 minutes. Kill the recast timer on Ice Nova, making 25-40 seconds instead of 45. And, across the board, lower cast times down just a bit…*cough* concussive *cough*. So? What are the solutions (in this wizards opinion) to fixing dps? 1. Tweak with agro transfers. 2. Give us a group-based self-only spell DPS buff. 3. Tweak with cast and recast timers just a tad. Doing these things would go a LONG way towards fixing the issues that wizards have and ultimately make everyone a good deal happier. Both players AND SoE, I’d –love- your imput and feedback on this. Devs, if you come by this, drop a reply or send me a message. Please, give me something to tell me if I’m on the right track or off basis completely. Please, give feedback and thank you for reading. Everyone’s favorite Gnomishly Gnomish Gnome Wizard… BEEGLIN FOBBLETOBSTER

IllusiveThoughts

09-15-2006, 10:59 PM

lots of good points in there. we do have 2 dps enchancing spells (albeit very small) but they are still there and should not be neglected. Frigid gift Surge of Flames. Frigid gift in its current state works quite well for non wizards, its recast should be lowered to 1min, and be made to proc off all spells/ca's. this would make it a huge boost to the groups dps and much more useful. Surge of Flames is a good spell at m1. it averaged about 90 per tick in a raid enviornment and thats a bonus 90 dps with the spell up against single targets. Its limitation is against group encounters since your spending time casting FOR, glacial winds, and Firestorm, Fusion, Ice nova ect for max dps against a group encounter you hardly get time to use any heat based spells so its not very useful in those situations, except to proc off firestorm.(averages250-360 additional dmg per mob) so to aid in fixing surge of flames make it instant cast, last 30 seconds (1 min 30s toggle re-use), remove the dot component and make it instant damage proc off all damage types. let it still proc heat based damage thought. Also you can change it to work like concealment does for assasins, and reduce the hate the wizard accrues by 30% at m1 while the buff is active. with these two changes wizard's would become more desierable, and the change to surge of flames will allow for additional burst damage that wizards currently lack if ice nova and fusion are not available. In otherwords give wizards a viable means to dps when our 2 big nukes are gone, and give us options on if we want to use surge of flames in conjuction with our 2 big nukes or aoe fights, or if we want to instead want to reduce our hate Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-15-2006 12:04 PM

Cowled_Wizard

09-16-2006, 02:03 PM

I admit tho I have been reading the forums here for a while, and Illusive i have to admit you have had a big influence on some of my grp tweaks, my guild is not big enough to raid zones but we are looking to change that soon, up till now we have been a grp of friends how just potter about but we all all lvl 70 now and need more than instances to maintain interest. With the above suggestions to reduce cast timers i can see that this would have a decent impact on the shorter fights, but on the longer epic fights would we still not simply run out of steam that bit faster allowing the classes with staying power to simply catch us and over take us as they seen to do anyway. If our timers are reduced would we not need a slight adjustment to our power consumption of our spells in order to reach the end without trying to kill ourselves in the process by converting all our health to power. So perhaps make the power conversion more efficient than it is at the moment if they will not reduce the power costs might help. Staying power is one of the things i have the biggest problems with generally particually when things are being chain pulled i find i am the only one effectively having to sit out one fight due to having no power left and waiting for the light to come on to cast a spell while sucking out my life frantically.

goboy

09-17-2006, 04:55 PM

Just to point out one little thing, the original damage rankings did not have wizards and warlocks alone at the top - it was shared with assassin and ranger. Now, why I am consistently outdamaged by our MT Bezerkers is a puzzler (well, only having 29 aa is part of it). He also came out later and wished he had never posted it. The only place I could find this was on eq2vault. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest. First group: <UL> <LI>Wizard/Warlock <LI>Assassin/Ranger</LI></UL> Second group: <UL> <LI>Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet) <LI>Brigand/Swashbuckler</LI></UL> Third group: <UL> <LI>Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet) <LI>Troubador/Dirge <LI>Bruiser/Monk </LI></UL> Fourth group: <UL> <LI>Berserker/Shadowknight <LI>Paladin/Guardian</LI></UL> Fifth group: <UL> <LI>Fury/Warden <LI>Defiler/Mystic <LI>Inquisitor/Templar</LI></UL> Keep in mind that these aren't absolutes. A Guardian who concentrates on damage output and upgrades his or her offensive abilities could surpass a Berserker who focuses on defensive capabilities. These are simply the general guidelines we're following where, all things being equal, the classes will be organized. The thing with class balance, though, is that all things are *never* equal. So much of the damage output of a class depends on how that class is played that it simply isn't possible for anyone to guarantee that a given class will always perform at a certain level under every circumstance. However, the above list should at least give players an idea of the direction our numbers will be taking. . <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

BlkVpr

09-18-2006, 11:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darien al'Staff wrote: First off, let me put this as a disclaimer: I feel that EQII was created as a PvE game, so the issues discussed will be PvE basedJ. I’ll let others deal with the PvP stuff. Furthermore, these suggestions are geared around raids, where I feel wizards are mostly in the lacking. Let’s face it, we are excellent soloers, and our group performance is alright........................................... .................>>> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> An excellent post and personlly I much agree with, as I also have the same credentials on my wizzy as yourself <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. The aggro control does need a slight tweak. Concussive itself is a blessing we should have had long ago, but the fact that it takes two seconds to cast, and then can only be used by successfully landing a spell (using aggro to deaggro seems counterproductive to me) within a measly 10 seconds, or you must wait 30 seconds to try again. This isn't frequently an issue, but in some situations, you just might have trouble getting off that damned spell. In a raid setting, this can be disastrous. To keep ourselves from being looked on as a noob class we still have the right to say we have to constantly, carefully monitor our dps, ESPECIALLY in raids. For if the wizard draws aggro, not only does he go squish, but the mob goes out of position...and that...is not good. Concussive's cast time is fine with me IF it were a straight deaggro. Cease as well is a nice little change, but I believe the deaggro should be bumped up a little. Due to the fact that is also an interrupt to epics, and a stifle as well to weaker targets, the power cost is fine to me. I must, however, disagree with you strongly on one point, and that is the decrease of recast timers on ice nova and fusion. There are many ways to deal with the DPS issues wizards have, I don't believe this is a good way to do so. Sorcerers (especially wizards) are often frowned upon because of the already in context short recast timers. Pred's get similair high damage attacks, but they must wait 15 minutes to use the, and if it doesnt land....well that just downright sucks. Wizards have TWO very high damage abilities that we can use many times before a pred can use theirs again. The range and AE cone on fusion does need to be increased a little however. As a side note, I do like that group-based self-only dps buff idea, but I doubt we'll ever see it. </BLOCKQUOTE>

-Morlande

09-22-2006, 09:29 PM

i just wish they would actually do something about it cuz the state of sorcerers atm is total crap and noone seems to do anything about it or even try to fix it <div></div>

Mirander_1

09-22-2006, 09:44 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>goboy wrote:<div></div> Just to point out one little thing, the original damage rankings did not have wizards and warlocks alone at the top - it was shared with assassin and ranger. Now, why I am consistently outdamaged by our MT Bezerkers is a puzzler (well, only having 29 aa is part of it). He also came out later and wished he had never posted it. The only place I could find this was on eq2vault. <blockquote> <hr> Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest. First group: <ul> <li>Wizard/Warlock </li><li>Assassin/Ranger</li></ul>Second group: <ul> <li>Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet) </li><li>Brigand/Swashbuckler</li></ul>Third group: <ul> <li>Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet) </li><li>Troubador/Dirge </li><li>Bruiser/Monk </li></ul>Fourth group: <ul> <li>Berserker/Shadowknight </li><li>Paladin/Guardian</li></ul>Fifth group: <ul> <li>Fury/Warden </li><li>Defiler/Mystic </li><li>Inquisitor/Templar</li></ul>Keep in mind that these aren't absolutes. A Guardian who concentrates on damage output and upgrades his or her offensive abilities could surpass a Berserker who focuses on defensive capabilities. These are simply the general guidelines we're following where, all things being equal, the classes will be organized. The thing with class balance, though, is that all things are *never* equal. So much of the damage output of a class depends on how that class is played that it simply isn't possible for anyone to guarantee that a given class will always perform at a certain level under every circumstance. However, the above list should at least give players an idea of the direction our numbers will be taking. . <hr> </blockquote> <hr></blockquote>Actually, if you look at the whole thing, it looks like we're supposed to be doing a little more damage on average than the predators. If you look at the fourth grouping, you can see that berserkers are paired up with shadowknights rather than guardians, and is then placed higher than guardians or paladins. Basically, it shows that berserkers and shadowknights are supposed to be teir 4 damage, but still do slightly more damage than the other teir 4 classes</div>

goboy

09-23-2006, 02:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mirander wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> goboy wrote: Just to point out one little thing, the original damage rankings did not have wizards and warlocks alone at the top - it was shared with assassin and ranger. Now, why I am consistently outdamaged by our MT Bezerkers is a puzzler (well, only having 29 aa is part of it). He also came out later and wished he had never posted it. The only place I could find this was on eq2vault. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest. First group: <UL> <LI>Wizard/Warlock </LI> <LI>Assassin/Ranger</LI></UL> Second group: <UL> <LI>Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet) </LI> <LI>Brigand/Swashbuckler</LI></UL> Third group: <UL> <LI>Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet) </LI> <LI>Troubador/Dirge </LI> <LI>Bruiser/Monk </LI></UL> Fourth group: <UL> <LI>Berserker/Shadowknight </LI> <LI>Paladin/Guardian</LI></UL> Fifth group: <UL> <LI>Fury/Warden </LI> <LI>Defiler/Mystic </LI> <LI>Inquisitor/Templar</LI></UL> Keep in mind that these aren't absolutes. A Guardian who concentrates on damage output and upgrades his or her offensive abilities could surpass a Berserker who focuses on defensive capabilities. These are simply the general guidelines we're following where, all things being equal, the classes will be organized. The thing with class balance, though, is that all things are *never* equal. So much of the damage output of a class depends on how that class is played that it simply isn't possible for anyone to guarantee that a given class will always perform at a certain level under every circumstance. However, the above list should at least give players an idea of the direction our numbers will be taking. . <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, if you look at the whole thing, it looks like we're supposed to be doing a little more damage on average than the predators. If you look at the fourth grouping, you can see that berserkers are paired up with shadowknights rather than guardians, and is then placed higher than guardians or paladins. Basically, it shows that berserkers and shadowknights are supposed to be teir 4 damage, but still do slightly more damage than the other teir 4 classes </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I know a lot of people assume that, however, the wording in his original post talks about 5 tiers - not levels in a tier. I have always thought it inidicated more of a grouping by archtype then a ranking in the tier.

Nastharl

09-25-2006, 10:53 AM

He's said many times he regrets posting that for a reason. its because its not always gonna be true or how it'll go. or ment to go.<div></div>

Zyphius

09-25-2006, 07:40 PM

How it is "supposed" to be:<blockquote><hr>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest.First group:<ul><li>Wizard/Warlock</li><li>Assassin/Ranger</li></ul>Second group:<ul><li>Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet)</li><li>Brigand/Swashbuckler</li></ul>Third group:<ul><li>Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet)</li><li>Troubador/Dirge</li><li>Bruiser/Monk</li></ul>Fourth group:<ul><li>Berserker/Shadowknight</li><li>Paladin/Guardian</li></ul>Fifth group:<ul><li>Fury/Warden</li><li>Defiler/Mystic</li><li>Inquisitor/Templar</li></ul><hr></blockquote>How it actually IS in live game:<blockquote><hr>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest.First group:<ul><li>Assassin/Ranger, Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet)</li><li>Bruiser/Monk</li></ul>Second group:<ul><li>Berserker</li><li>Brigand/Swashbuckler</li></ul>Third group:<ul><li>Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet)</li><li>Wizard/Warlock</li><li>Coercer/Illusionist, Troubador/Dirge</li></ul>Fourth group:<ul><li>Shadowknight</li><li>Paladin/Guardian</li></ul>Fifth group:<ul><li>Fury/Warden</li><li>Defiler/Mystic</li><li>Inquisitor/Templar</li></ul><hr></blockquote>My suggestions:Lower cast times, and maybe tweak recast times.Lower power costAnd, most importantly, raise the "lower" number on the damage range... the ranges are far too great. Ice Nova can easily do less damage than Ice Comet, a spell 20 levels lower. That is ridiculous.

IllusiveThoughts

09-25-2006, 08:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> This is how I see it. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest. First group: <UL> <LI>Assassin / Conjurer / Necromancer (using damage pet) </LI> <LI>Swash / Wizard / Brigand</LI></UL> Second group: <UL> <LI>Berserker / bruiser / monk / warlock </LI> <LI>Coercer / Illusionist / Ranger</LI></UL> Third group: <UL> <LI>Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet) / Shadowknight / Paladin </LI> <LI>Troubador / Dirge</LI></UL> Fourth group: <UL> <LI>Guardian / Fury</LI></UL> Fifth group: <UL> <LI>Warden </LI> <LI>Defiler/Mystic </LI> <LI>Inquisitor/Templar</LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-25-2006 09:04 AM

Zyphius

09-25-2006, 08:17 PM

<blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:This is how I see it.<blockquote><hr><li>Assassin / Conjurer / Necromancer (using damage pet)</li><li>Swash / Wizard / Brigand</li></ul>Second group:<ul><li>Berserker / bruiser / monk / warlock</li><li>Coercer / Illusionist / Ranger</li></ul></blockquote><hr></blockquote>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-25-200609:04 AM<hr>I am constantly getting out-dps'd by monks, bruisers, swashies, and brigs (monks and bruisers moreso than the other two though). Berserkers beat me a good bit too.

IllusiveThoughts

09-25-2006, 10:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote: This is how I see it. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <LI>Assassin / Conjurer / Necromancer (using damage pet) </LI> <LI>Swash / Wizard / Brigand</LI> <UL></UL> Second group: <UL> <LI>Berserker / bruiser / monk / warlock </LI> <LI>Coercer / Illusionist / Ranger</LI></UL> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-25-200609:04 AM <HR> I am constantly getting out-dps'd by monks, bruisers, swashies, and brigs (monks and bruisers moreso than the other two though). Berserkers beat me a good bit too. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> have you done any of the things i've suggested about increasing your dps since last we chatted about a month ago?

Zyphius

09-25-2006, 10:32 PM

I put the earring back on, like you suggested, and I've been looking for masters, but other than that, I haven't had the group to do the others. I tried to solo the den to get grizzlefazzles, but that didn't last long... I will post the parses from last night's lab run after I get home. We took Vyemm down for our first time (was an awesome feeling), and I survived the fight, but I wasn't going full burn because I wanted to last the whole fight. I had no de-aggro on me, but that was just the group I fell into. I tend to parse much better on trash than on named, either because I get aggro and one shotted on the named, or because I run out of power...Message Edited by putergod on 09-25-2006 05:20 PM

IllusiveThoughts

09-25-2006, 10:55 PM

den is easily dooable by a group of 3. tank healer you. do you not get much playtime in? It takes like 1 hour to get griz. the heritage quest will take a lil longer but I did mine in a few days mostly due to grinding up to 36 tradeskiller to craft the item, had our guild monk train / feign me to the forge.

Zyphius

09-26-2006, 01:11 AM

<DIV>Damage | DPS | Ext DPS | Ext HPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zone wide trash:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (43:36) 25151703 | 9614.57 [Zyphius-Ice Nova-18404] Assassin 2896863 | 1109.48 | 1107.36 | 0.90 Ranger 2853210 | 1092.77 | 1090.68 | 0.42 Monk 1951992 | 750.77 | 746.17 | 1.16 Wizard 1910152 | 731.58 | 730.18 | 0.83 Zyphius 1886375 | 730.87 | 721.09 | 3.39 Wizard 1879569 | 720.42 | 718.49 | 0.77 Bruiser 1785311 | 684.81 | 682.46 | 0.11 Swashbuckler 1264124 | 634.28 | 483.23 | 0.21 Brigand 1466281 | 562.01 | 560.50 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 1232934 | 472.93 | 471.31 | 5.24 Necromancer 1090846 | 426.28 | 416.99 | 24.92 Necro Pet 471551 | 379.06 | 180.26 | 5.04 Guardian (MT) 942304 | 361.04 | 360.21 | 9.93 Dirge 702576 | 269.19 | 268.57 | 3.96 Shadow Knight 615226 | 235.63 | 235.18 | 5.18 Paladin 601744 | 231.53 | 230.02 | 41.38 Troubador 595528 | 230.65 | 227.65 | 0.00 Paladin 563917 | 216.72 | 215.56 | 21.10 Inquisitor 209201 | 80.43 | 79.97 | 58.36 Fury 134320 | 53.07 | 51.35 | 48.05 Fury 51442 | 24.68 | 19.66 | 71.16 Templar 32973 | 12.82 | 12.60 | 130.10 Templar 11274 | 5.02 | 4.31 | 126.23 Templar 327 | 2.14 | 0.13 | 46.45 Fury 1663 | 0.72 | 0.64 | 80.34</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Slavering Alzid (>500)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (02:39) 1586679 | 9979.11 [Assassin-Decapitate-14927] Assassin 158294 | 1190.18 | 995.56 | 0.00 Ranger 148963 | 1041.70 | 936.87 | 0.00 Swashbuckler 122370 | 978.96 | 769.62 | 0.00 Wizard 125333 | 971.57 | 788.26 | 1.65 Necromancer 122430 | 920.53 | 770.00 | 43.09 Brigand 114071 | 864.17 | 717.43 | 0.00 Wizard 109080 | 747.12 | 686.04 | 2.20 Zyphius 111051 | 740.34 | 698.43 | 3.32 Bruiser 97950 | 736.47 | 616.04 | 0.00 Monk 99445 | 725.88 | 625.44 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 84901 | 589.59 | 533.97 | 2.52</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doomwright Vakrizt (>500)</DIV> <DIV>Allies: (01:42) 1295527 | 12701.25 [Wizard-Fusion-14503] Swashbuckler 125927 | 1430.99 | 1234.58 | 0.00 Assassin 126424 | 1374.17 | 1239.45 | 0.00 Ranger 121698 | 1322.80 | 1193.12 | 0.00 Wizard 103493 | 1124.92 | 1014.64 | 0.00 Wizard 99578 | 1037.27 | 976.25 | 0.00 Monk 87952 | 935.66 | 862.27 | 0.00 Necromancer 76450 | 932.32 | 749.51 | 34.21 Bruiser 84643 | 930.14 | 829.83 | 0.00 Zyphius 82285 | 848.30 | 806.72 | 0.00 Brigand 73967 | 821.86 | 725.17 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 67400 | 740.66 | 660.78 | 0.00 Guardian (MT) 60678 | 625.55 | 594.88 | 34.31</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pardas Predd (>500)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (02:1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 1260447 | 9133.67 [Assassin-Decapitate-14780] Assassin 168857 | 1298.90 | 1223.60 | 2.23 Ranger 125549 | 965.76 | 909.78 | 0.00 Wizard 119191 | 945.96 | 863.70 | 0.00 Monk 110453 | 897.99 | 800.38 | 24.08 Brigand 105307 | 829.19 | 763.09 | 0.00 Necromancer 60148 | 823.95 | 435.86 | 29.66 Zyphius 99273 | 775.57 | 719.37 | 9.32 Wizard 100717 | 757.27 | 729.83 | 13.81 Bruiser 91587 | 709.98 | 663.67 | 0.00 Necro Pet 4193 | 599.00 | 30.38 | 9.45</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doom Triad (Top 10)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (01:52) 1182635 | 10559.24 [Assassin-Decapitate-15725] Ranger 150183 | 1501.83 | 1340.92 | 0.00 Assassin 150746 | 1477.90 | 1345.95 | 0.00 Swashbuckler 129620 | 1246.35 | 1157.32 | 19.79 Monk 101412 | 956.72 | 905.46 | 0.00 Zyphius 70969 | 806.47 | 633.65 | 0.00 Wizard 75826 | 789.85 | 677.02 | 8.71 Brigand 78810 | 788.10 | 703.66 | 0.00 Wizard 77462 | 759.43 | 691.63 | 0.00 Necro Pet 37747 | 466.01 | 337.03 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 47472 | 452.11 | 423.86 | 33.02</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uncaged Alzid (>500 w/ Necro Pet)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (02:45) 1502806 | 9107.92 [Assassin-Decapitate-13257] Necromancer 76483 | 1176.66 | 463.53 | 44.47 Zyphius 127481 | 988.22 | 772.61 | 5.19 Brigand 152798 | 979.47 | 926.05 | 0.00 Ranger 133753 | 948.60 | 810.62 | 0.00 Assassin 143345 | 913.03 | 868.76 | 3.98 Swashbuckler 138042 | 902.24 | 836.62 | 11.34 Wizard 119463 | 791.15 | 724.02 | 1.00 Wizard 104637 | 683.90 | 634.16 | 1.63 Shadow Knight 90480 | 615.51 | 548.36 | 13.92 Bruiser 81681 | 540.93 | 495.04 | 0.00</DIV> <DIV>Necro Pet 20210 | 153.11 | 122.48 | 1.48</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uustalastus Xiterrax (Top 10)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (02:09) 843618 | 6539.67 [Wizard-Fusion-13901] Wizard 113565 | 954.33 | 880.35 | 0.00 Zyphius 105671 | 859.11 | 819.16 | 0.99 Wizard 99858 | 846.25 | 774.09 | 0.00 Necromancer 78713 | 696.58 | 610.18 | 14.42 Ranger 59440 | 508.03 | 460.78 | 0.00 Necro Pet 53317 | 463.63 | 413.31 | 12.34 Shadow Knight 49706 | 404.11 | 385.32 | 13.32 Monk 45036 | 369.15 | 349.12 | 0.00 Fury 19293 | 306.24 | 149.56 | 161.71 Shadow Knight 29517 | 245.98 | 228.81 | 24.57</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doomsword Zatrakh </DIV> <DIV>No valid parse (don't know what happened on this one)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Corsolander (Top 10)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (03:40) 398381 | 1810.82 [Zyphius-Ice Nova-13701] Zyphius 132722 | 603.28 | 603.28 | 6.25 Fury 1338 | 267.60 | 6.08 | 51.44 Wizard 37002 | 220.25 | 168.19 | 2.88 Ranger 36464 | 192.93 | 165.75 | 0.00 Wizard 23767 | 153.34 | 108.03 | 1.47 Brigand 26787 | 138.79 | 121.76 | 0.00 Assassin 27535 | 128.67 | 125.16 | 2.77 Necro Pet 15786 | 103.18 | 71.75 | 8.20 Swashbuckler 19230 | 93.35 | 87.41 | 0.41 Troubador 14138 | 93.01 | 64.26 | 0.00</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Euktrzkai Amdaatk (>500)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (01:05) 804848 | 12382.28 [Wizard-Fusion-16194] Assassin 28461 | 3557.63 | 437.86 | 0.00 Wizard 89810 | 1575.61 | 1381.69 | 0.00 Ranger 84449 | 1456.02 | 1299.22 | 0.00 Zyphius 76135 | 1312.67 | 1171.31 | 0.00 Swashbuckler 70453 | 1280.96 | 1083.89 | 1.37 Wizard 53183 | 1063.66 | 818.20 | 0.00 Monk 63934 | 1048.10 | 983.60 | 0.00 Brigand 54534 | 956.74 | 838.98 | 0.00 Bruiser 53826 | 928.03 | 828.09 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 26618 | 700.47 | 409.51 | 0.00 Necromancer 29627 | 617.23 | 455.80 | 0.00 Necro Pet 30545 | 610.90 | 469.92 | 0.00</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lord Vyemm (Top 10)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (04:04) 1594565 | 6535.10 [Assassin-Decapitate-17346] Ranger 188143 | 821.59 | 771.08 | 8.27 Assassin 154081 | 810.95 | 631.48 | 0.00 Brigand 173819 | 755.73 | 712.37 | 0.00 Wizard 141200 | 669.19 | 578.69 | 0.00 Wizard 131234 | 570.58 | 537.84 | 6.67 Monk 118859 | 519.03 | 487.13 | 11.50 Bruiser 103515 | 448.12 | 424.24 | 13.68 Zyphius 92612 | 426.78 | 379.56 | 0.00 Guardian (MT) 96555 | 405.69 | 395.72 | 13.64 Dirge 71657 | 318.48 | 293.68 | 12.19</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alzid Prime (>500)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (01:26) 983322 | 11433.98 [Wizard-Ice Nova-11765] Assassin 99725 | 1347.64 | 1159.59 | 0.00 Ranger 98382 | 1311.76 | 1143.98 | 0.00 Wizard 83238 | 1124.84 | 967.88 | 2.28 Wizard 78710 | 1124.43 | 915.23 | 0.00 Brigand 71868 | 984.49 | 835.67 | 0.00 Zyphius 70408 | 977.89 | 818.70 | 0.00 Bruiser 62556 | 845.35 | 727.40 | 0.00 Monk 55181 | 766.40 | 641.64 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 47089 | 663.23 | 547.55 | 0.00 Necromancer 23281 | 567.83 | 270.71 | 0.00 Necro Pet 31572 | 553.89 | 367.12 | 3.99 Shadow Knight 37581 | 514.81 | 436.99 | 0.00 Fury 17979 | 513.69 | 209.06 | 0.00 Guardian (MT) 40318 | 510.35 | 468.81 | 0.00</DIV>

IllusiveThoughts

09-26-2006, 01:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote: <DIV>Damage | DPS | Ext DPS | Ext HPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Euktrzkai Amdaatk (>500)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allies: (01:05) 804848 | 12382.28 [Wizard-Fusion-16194] Assassin 28461 | 3557.63 | 437.86 | 0.00 Wizard 89810 | 1575.61 | 1381.69 | 0.00 Ranger 84449 | 1456.02 | 1299.22 | 0.00 Zyphius 76135 | 1312.67 | 1171.31 | 0.00 Swashbuckler 70453 | 1280.96 | 1083.89 | 1.37 Wizard 53183 | 1063.66 | 818.20 | 0.00 Monk 63934 | 1048.10 | 983.60 | 0.00 Brigand 54534 | 956.74 | 838.98 | 0.00 Bruiser 53826 | 928.03 | 828.09 | 0.00 Shadow Knight 26618 | 700.47 | 409.51 | 0.00 Necromancer 29627 | 617.23 | 455.80 | 0.00 Necro Pet 30545 | 610.90 | 469.92 | 0.00</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'd figure out what you did on this parse, and copy it. thats respectable dps for single target against this dude.

TheBu

10-03-2006, 11:23 PM

<DIV>Darien al'Staff sunstrike sucks dont even need it.. it can only do like 800 or less dps per casting time even for the master. [yes a spell that slows us down and therfore usless, intresting that we would have such a spell]</DIV> <DIV> Now as far improvments...</DIV> <DIV>Agro... haha.. it is a sick joke.. a scout has three things better than us: more mit, more avoidance and more degro spells. Really sick joke. We get agro Spat ur dead.. O wait ther changing the stuff around so we be able to be hit on more.. Hello That not what we want. We want dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Along time ago. before a soe change... we had a great spell... Forge of Ro an aoe agro free spell. now it procduces hate for us... purhaps this was the only way to give pet classes ther hate, but it hurt us bad. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anomalism is a nice tought but hay lets not joke about it. They all saw the treads asking if it really was 2% or 3% for the master. Hum only 25% lower than the scouts so it could be worse... could be 1% Now agro works 2 ways... hate on me hate on u.. </DIV> <DIV> 1. so If they FIX the agro transfer spells first... and let them stack, it could work well for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. I suggest Illusionist get a group deagro spell the opposite of the Coercer fighter agro spell. Just like the Dirge and Troubador have opposite agros spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TheBuzZ</DIV>