Ice shield broken? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Zyphius

08-21-2006, 06:31 PM

Ok, last night something happened that just didn't seem right and made me say "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?".In labs, pulling the doom triad:We used a naked warlock (he was already naked, so we used him as bait, lol) to pull the group. About 5 seconds before the pull I put Ice Sheild on the tank. No mobs engaged, so no hate to be gained from casting the buff. Warlock pulls, tank rescues, and I start to cast my hex doll. No negative acts by me yet, and one of the mobs run up and one shot me half way through casting the hex doll. The only thing I can think of is that Ice Sheild proc'ed and I got aggro (from one of the mobs the tank wasn't attacking). Now, supposedly the proc's are 0 aggro, but that isn't what I seemed to be experiencing last night.Why can't the devs make this spell like it was before?? No other classes' damage shields attribute the damage to them, so it seems to me that the only reason for this was to make wizards parse higher. That is BS and nothing but an admittance that we aren't where we should be and they don't want to fix us.On another note, none of the wizards(we had 3) in the raid parsed on the top on any fight (maybe once or twice, but none that I noticed). One did really well, but never hit the top (that I noticed). I only do well on trash and have yet to look "good" on a named (ok, I suck, but I'm working on it).Anyway, the purpose of this post is to beg the devs to put Ice Sheild back the way it used to be. Let the proc's attribute to the tank! Let him be the one the mobs get mad at for it, not me! All other classes' work that way, why can't ours? Quit trying to inflate our DPS and actually fix the issues.Thank you.And flamers keep to yourself. This post is worded in a non-flamatory manner, and are just my observations which may or may not refelct the opinions or observations of other wizards.

IllusiveThoughts

08-21-2006, 06:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote: About 5 seconds before the pull I put Ice Sheild on the tank. No mobs engaged, so no hate to be gained from casting the buff. Warlock pulls, tank rescues, and I start to cast my hex doll. No negative acts by me yet, and one of the mobs run up and one shot me half way through casting the hex doll. The only thing I can think of is that Ice Sheild proc'ed and I got aggro (from one of the mobs the tank wasn't attacking). Now, supposedly the proc's are 0 aggro, but that isn't what I seemed to be experiencing last night. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> thats strange, I haven't had agro issues from pre-casting this before, in fact It doesn't enter me into combat when it procs, I wonder if you had something else cause the agro. I agree I would like the spell changed back to give hate to the person who procs it. Since they nerfed (yes NERFED) that spell we lost a good chunk of our hate generation / managment, since we could cast it on a tank and once all 3 procs went off go to town, and so could the rest of the raid. 1k x 3 = 3k hate + hate modifyers(passive + dirge + coercer) = 6k hate every 20s. or about 18k hate every minute. concussive will only do at maximum 5k / min, and ceace is well 2k at the top end. so they took away 18k hate generation, and gave us 2k with ceace, and now with 3% from accord doing an average 1200 dps for 1 min = 2160 hate, so we're at 4k hate reduction/ min still at a 14k hate deficit from before this spells nerf. even if they changed amolism to 15% thats still only 10,800 hate / min, and were still at a 2k deficit from before the change to ice sheild. THAT's how badly we got nerfed people.

Zyphius

08-21-2006, 07:01 PM

What could have caused it?Timeline:Tank says "Pulling in 10 seconds"1s2s3s4s5s Tank says "Pulling in 5 seconds"6s I cast Ice Sheild7s8s9s10s Tank says "Pulling NOW!"11s Warlocks pulls12s Tank recues13s I start casting hex doll14s Tank tanking (perhaps Ice Sheild procs?)15s Tank tanking (perhaps Ice Sheild procs?)16s Tank tanking (perhaps Ice Sheild procs?)17s Mob heads straight for me18s I am dead, hex doll casting stopsThese seconds arent exact, but you get the idea.I don't know what happened, but I do know that I landed nothing on the mob, or the tank, from the pull to my death.

Solu

08-21-2006, 08:19 PM

Ive run into this since the change a few times. Just in a group ive casted ice shield on the tank, tank body pulls mob comes straight for me. The only thing i can attribute this too is the ice shield.

Koehianna

08-21-2006, 11:52 PM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soluss wrote: Ive run into this since the change a few times. Just in a group ive casted ice shield on the tank, tank body pulls mob comes straight for me. The only thing i can attribute this too is the ice shield. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Same experience with me. </DIV>

IllusiveThoughts

08-22-2006, 01:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soluss wrote: Ive run into this since the change a few times. Just in a group ive casted ice shield on the tank, tank body pulls mob comes straight for me. The only thing i can attribute this too is the ice shield. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> that only happens to me if I cast it while the tank body pulls, or after he gets initial agro from the body pull. Casting the buff itself when mobs are agro'd will put you on the hate list (body pulling) but pre-casting it before any agro will not. I'm not sure what happened in putergods situation, but that is how it works for me.

duuf

08-22-2006, 02:22 AM

Have had to quit precasting ice shield as I get agro off my tank and off of pet pulls and dang it hes a pally with amends on my wiz so my opinion its definitely broken. Duffus lvl 70 wiz Duufuss lvl 70 pally Everfrost <div></div>

Noaani

08-22-2006, 02:37 AM

The only thing i can think of is that, although you had 0 hate to the particular mob, if you were the only one on the hate list, 0 is still at the top. You pre cast Ice Shield, warlock pulls, tank rescues which only effects 1 mob. So now your tank has uber aggro on one mob, and is not yet on the hate list of the other two. One of those other two mobs hits the tank, causing Ice Shield to trigger, doing ~1k damage, but not causing you any aggro. Now that mob has you on his aggro list, and even though you are at 0 hate, its higher than the tank, who is not yet on that hate list. Not sure if it works this way, but its all i can think of, and it happened to me once or twice before I stopped precasting it on multi-mob pulls.

Jezekie

08-22-2006, 03:17 AM

I had the same happen on me vs Sunchild, I'm beginning to suspect the hex doll since I didn't have Iceshield on MT, nor were I in his group.<div></div>

Admh

08-22-2006, 04:41 AM

to me.. it's not broken. I just don't use it.<div></div>

Timbers

08-22-2006, 10:25 AM

Never happened to me either, but... Labs is a bit buggy (as many other places ;P) and random "huntdown someone in raid" is not that unusual, and not depending on actions from the "chosen target"... ppl even standing around chatting get the attention <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So.... i would guess its just pure unluck (not always, but if you havnt done anything i would say it falls under that category) and not our ice shield, never gotten agro from that one... and yes i use it a lot...

goboy

08-22-2006, 03:28 PM

<DIV>In a group, I saw no problems with it last night. I normally would cast just before the pull and only managed to get aggro once. The time I got aggro was a late buff where it landed just as the tank aggroed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not use it on raids before the pull since the chance of dropping it late are too great.</DIV>

Pins

08-22-2006, 07:19 PM

So, a mob with a memblur went to you. Hello wizard, meet memblur mob, hell mob, meet dead wizard.

Jezekie

08-22-2006, 08:37 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:So, a mob with a memblur went to you. Hello wizard, meet memblur mob, hell mob, meet dead wizard.<hr></blockquote>The thing is, in neither the OP's or my own example were the mob hit by a spell prior to being plastered all over the ground. I too thought about memblur, but in my own case the mob was just being engaged and I have never seen a mob memblur right as it's being engaged, even if it did memblur I wasn't in proximity range of it and had yet to cast any spells, there's no way I should have been on the hate list.</div>

iceriven2

08-22-2006, 10:22 PM

Even thought the damamge it self does not produce agro...you are casting a buff. I may be wrong but i think there is still agro for casting a buff. They made this kind of agro small so if u cast it just before the tank can tuant the agro goes to u. If the tank does like 5 hit attack on it that would be enough for him to keep it.

IllusiveThoughts

08-22-2006, 10:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jezekiell wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote: So, a mob with a memblur went to you. Hello wizard, meet memblur mob, hell mob, meet dead wizard. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The thing is, in neither the OP's or my own example were the mob hit by a spell prior to being plastered all over the ground. I too thought about memblur, but in my own case the mob was just being engaged and I have never seen a mob memblur right as it's being engaged, even if it did memblur I wasn't in proximity range of it and had yet to cast any spells, there's no way I should have been on the hate list. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I think its just a zone bug with labs for the o.p. I can pre cast ice sheild prior to pull not enter combat and not be on the hate list for said mob if raid wipes I stand there looking at the poor dead raiders.

Dejah

08-22-2006, 10:34 PM

<DIV>As others have already said, it's that encounter not ice shield.</DIV>

Pins

08-22-2006, 10:52 PM

<blockquote><hr>Jezekiell wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:So, a mob with a memblur went to you. Hello wizard, meet memblur mob, hell mob, meet dead wizard.<hr></blockquote>The thing is, in neither the OP's or my own example were the mob hit by a spell prior to being plastered all over the ground. I too thought about memblur, but in my own case the mob was just being engaged and I have never seen a mob memblur right as it's being engaged, even if it did memblur I wasn't in proximity range of it and had yet to cast any spells, there's no way I should have been on the hate list.</div><hr></blockquote>A memblur wipes the hate list completely, of course most mobs don't do a "true" memblur, but rather they reverse rescue a random target in the encounter they are facing. At least, that's how sunchild works.

IllusiveThoughts

08-22-2006, 10:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jezekiell wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote: So, a mob with a memblur went to you. Hello wizard, meet memblur mob, hell mob, meet dead wizard. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The thing is, in neither the OP's or my own example were the mob hit by a spell prior to being plastered all over the ground. I too thought about memblur, but in my own case the mob was just being engaged and I have never seen a mob memblur right as it's being engaged, even if it did memblur I wasn't in proximity range of it and had yet to cast any spells, there's no way I should have been on the hate list. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> A memblur wipes the hate list completely, of course most mobs don't do a "true" memblur, but rather they reverse rescue a random target in the encounter they are facing. At least, that's how sunchild works. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you sure it has to be someone the mob is facing, or just a random position # generated from all members of the raid?

Voden19

08-23-2006, 01:52 AM

I have never encountered trouble with ice shield unless the tank just aggroed the mob and is running back to group and I timed the spell wrong and Ice Shield goes off before he gets a taunt off, and presto I have the mob on me! I usually wait a sec for them to get a few hits in then cast it.

Zyphius

08-23-2006, 05:08 PM

<blockquote><hr>iceriven2 wrote:Even thought the damamge it self does not produce agro...you are casting a buff. I may be wrong but i think there is still agro for casting a buff. They made this kind of agro small so if u cast it just before the tank can tuant the agro goes to u. If the tank does like 5 hit attack on it that would be enough for him to keep it.<hr></blockquote>Yes, I am well aware of this. Hence the reason for casting BEFORE the pull.

Pins

08-24-2006, 07:33 PM

<blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:you sure it has to be someone the mob is facing, or just a random position # generated from all members of the raid?<hr></blockquote>Facing, as in combat against, not facing as in directed towards.

Zyphius

08-24-2006, 07:39 PM

<blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:you sure it has to be someone the mob is facing, or just a random position # generated from all members of the raid?<hr></blockquote>Facing, as in combat against, not facing as in directed towards.<hr></blockquote>So, if you haven't engaged the mob, and are therefore not in combat, then you should not be a target for the memblur? If that is the case, then that cannot be what happened to me, since I was not yet in combat. I was in the process of casting my hex doll (which we all know has a long cast time). It hadn't landed yet, and I casted no offensive spells. Ice shield was it, and it was cast before the pull.

IllusiveThoughts

08-24-2006, 08:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote: you sure it has to be someone the mob is facing, or just a random position # generated from all members of the raid? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Facing, as in combat against, not facing as in directed towards. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> So, if you haven't engaged the mob, and are therefore not in combat, then you should not be a target for the memblur? If that is the case, then that cannot be what happened to me, since I was not yet in combat. I was in the process of casting my hex doll (which we all know has a long cast time). It hadn't landed yet, and I casted no offensive spells. Ice shield was it, and it was cast before the pull. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> certain mobs will put you/entire raid on the hate list even from proximity agro, like most named encounters will agro you on a wipe if you did nothing but stand there picking your nose.

Zyphius

08-25-2006, 06:18 PM

<blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>putergod wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Pinski wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>IllusiveThoughts wrote: you sure it has to be someone the mob is facing, or just a random position # generated from all members of the raid? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Facing, as in combat against, not facing as in directed towards. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So, if you haven't engaged the mob, and are therefore not in combat, then you should not be a target for the memblur? If that is the case, then that cannot be what happened to me, since I was not yet in combat. I was in the process of casting my hex doll (which we all know has a long cast time). It hadn't landed yet, and I casted no offensive spells. Ice shield was it, and it was cast before the pull. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> certain mobs will put you/entire raid on the hate list even from proximity agro, like most named encounters will agro you on a wipe if you did nothing but stand there picking your nose. <hr></blockquote>I would have to think that Labs is not like that; as there have been MANY times that half the raid would die, and I would stand there watching them die (I usually wait a few seconds before going offensive - I want to make sure the tank is going to stay up). If I hadn't cast anything, and the tank dies on the pull, and everyone that has started on the offensive gets wiped, those that haven't will be left alone. The example in the op was a different story though. I still am not sure what happened here. It is either A. Ice Sheild, or B. the memblur, and it doesnt just use the current hate list (as posted a few posts up).

IllusiveThoughts

08-25-2006, 06:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote: you sure it has to be someone the mob is facing, or just a random position # generated from all members of the raid? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Facing, as in combat against, not facing as in directed towards. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> So, if you haven't engaged the mob, and are therefore not in combat, then you should not be a target for the memblur? If that is the case, then that cannot be what happened to me, since I was not yet in combat. I was in the process of casting my hex doll (which we all know has a long cast time). It hadn't landed yet, and I casted no offensive spells. Ice shield was it, and it was cast before the pull. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> certain mobs will put you/entire raid on the hate list even from proximity agro, like most named encounters will agro you on a wipe if you did nothing but stand there picking your nose. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I would have to think that Labs is not like that; as there have been MANY times that half the raid would die, and I would stand there watching them die (I usually wait a few seconds before going offensive - I want to make sure the tank is going to stay up). If I hadn't cast anything, and the tank dies on the pull, and everyone that has started on the offensive gets wiped, those that haven't will be left alone. The example in the op was a different story though. I still am not sure what happened here. It is either A. Ice Sheild, or B. the memblur, and it doesnt just use the current hate list (as posted a few posts up). <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> sure it is best example I know for sure that is like that is lord vyemm himself.

daray

08-26-2006, 04:22 PM

From my own experiences, procs off Iceshield causes you to engage the encounter, even if precast before the tank pulls. A good example to illustrate what i mean is that jello drake in DT: - If i cast iceshield on the tank before the drake splits into 2, and iceshield has not expired by the time the drake splits, susbsequent procs caused by the 2 blobs will drop you straight back into combat. - If i make sure iceshield is not on the tank when the drake splits, then i drop out of combat on the split and stay out of combat until i take an offensive action. This option is the one i take on this encounter to buy me 10 or 15 secs to regen some power before reengaging (also gives the tank a small window to build hate before i burn). The point i am trying to make above is that procs from Iceshield will still put you on the hate list .... and although the value of your hate is 0, that is still more than a tank that has prox pulled and as such not generated any hate. That is all. <div></div>