LU27 - Accord Change

[s]

<DIV>So, anyone on test know the specifics on this change? Is it a percentage, does the powerproc stay in place? How much hate gets transferred? Does it go for the entire spell line (I would assume it does)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give us answers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by sro on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:02 AM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<P>I just read this, and said OMG!</P> <P> </P> <P>I really really hope its more than 10% and close to 20% at m1.</P> <P>Its cross raid castable (can be put on the main tank now!) casters rejoice.</P>

[Dejah]

<DIV>/thumbsup Devs</DIV>

[iceriven2]

just went on test...my wizzie is only lvl 6 so i tried the broker...only the app 4 for the lvl 33 spell was up for sale..2% hate reduction. No wizzie's above lvl 50 on either soo we must wait <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> iceriven2 wrote:<BR>just went on test...my wizzie is only lvl 6 so i tried the broker...only the app 4 for the lvl 33 spell was up for sale..2% hate reduction. No wizzie's above lvl 50 on either soo we must wait <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>that means at least 5% at m1 for lvl 33, and we get 2 upgrades after that sooo.........</P> <P>looks like m1 will be about 10-14% hate transfer, and adept 3 from 8-12%</P> <P>moving in the right direction, but not quite there yet.</P> <P>Hopefully it scales up higher at the top end.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also did anyone else catch the nerf to bonus's on power pool sizes to players over lvl 60?</P> <P>I wonder how much this will nerf my power pool when it hits live?  (first we got mental core taken away -300 power, and now this)</P> <P>Maybe I should dig back up my power pool / spell increase chart I made back in the day.</P> <P> </P>

[vindiesel4]

anomalism m1 = 3 percents hate transfer and 121 power:smileyindifferent:

[goboy]

<DIV>Ok,</DIV> <DIV><BR>Anomalism Apprentice IV says - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Causes 2% Threat to transfer to target when in combat - if Fighter.  This is on a seperate line from Proc, so assume it is constant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 says:  same thing.  Only difference is power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jaly, 70 sage/wizard test.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit:  Will not be making the Adept 3 version.</DIV><p>Message Edited by goboy on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:59 PM</span>

[vindiesel4]

<DIV>unless is raise to 10 percents or more. Is like bringing sand to the beach, too little to make a different!:smileytongue:</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vindiesel439 wrote:<BR> anomalism m1 = 3 percents hate transfer and 121 power:smileyindifferent:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wow, thats just sad.

[Jezekie]

This at least acknowledges that we generate too much threat at the moment, regardless of the % change however small it may be.

[s]

<DIV>3 frickin percent? Nice slap in the face... better then nothing sure but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].. I sure hoped for more</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<P>I put my thoughts here:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=10651&jump=true#M10651" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=10651&jump=true#M10651</A></P>

[Dejah]

<P>I don't know what there is to complain about.  We can now cast a buff I rarely got to use cross raid, and as a bonus, it transfers a small amount of hate.  Win and win. </P> <P>3% transfer may not seem like a whole lot, but if you're reducing your hate be 3% and giving that to the tank, it basically works out that you can do about 6.38% more damage before pulling aggro.</P> <P>Theoretical Example) If a tank causes 100 threat, how much threat can the wizard do before having more threat than the tank?</P> <P>100+t·(0.03)=t·(0.97)</P> <P>t ≈106.382978723404</P> <P>Answer: Wizard can create about 6.38% more threat before pulling aggro.</P> <P>Now, I'm assuming that this buff won't stack when there are multiple wizards, but let's take a look at what it would look like if it did.  These numbers are theoretical assuming both wizards parse the same.</P> <P>2 Wizards: 9.89% threat can be created before pulling aggro (  100+t·(0.03)<STRONG>*2</STRONG>=t·(0.97)  )<BR>3 Wizards: 13.64% threat can be created before pulling aggro (  100+t·(0.03)<STRONG>*3</STRONG>=t·(0.97)  ).</P> <P>My guild raids with two wizards, so assuming we're parsing the same and the buff stacks, it will effectively be roughly 10% harder to pull aggro.  If the buff doesn't stack, it'll effectively be roughly 6% harder to pull aggro.  If the transfer occurs prior to hate reducers being applied (unlikely in my opinion) then these numbers get even better.</P> <P>All and all I'm pretty happy considering I currently never use the spell on raids, and after this change goes live it will be the first buff I cast (after I pull aggro and die).</P>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>fact of the matter is 3% is BS no matter how you look at it</DIV> <DIV>when you got other classes that have 20+% threat transfer or just deagro, and then they give us 2-3%? </DIV> <DIV>thanks soe, you admitted we needed something like this, and then you slap us in the face with a worthless 2-3%</DIV> <DIV>make that 5-10% and id think it would be cool</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dejah wrote:<BR> <P>I don't know what there is to complain about.  We can now cast a buff I rarely got to use cross raid, and as a bonus, it transfers a small amount of hate.  Win and win. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Because sorcerors have some of the worst agro management tools in game, its even worse for warlocks.</P> <P>I'd be happy if they took away the power proc and just made it a straight hate transfer.</P> <P>I've been asking for something like this for a loooooooong time.  Even before concussive was given to us.</P> <P>3% is laughable compared to what every other class gets.  The notion that sorcerors deal great damage but need the most hate reduction needs to end if we are to be a viable class on a raid.</P> <P>What I mean is that it shouldn't take a troub, coercer, illusionist, (guardian or paly) to allow us to do max dps.</P> <P>we should be able to do t1 dps like the pred classes with 0 raid support.(granted this is debatable but you get the point)</P> <P>I think this is a step in the right direction, but I dont see anything else in the future comming down the hate reduction pipeline unless its through more aa's (which some may not want to put precious aa's into) or gear, which should not be a determining factor in class balance.<BR></P>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>yah i wouldnt be upset about it if the other classes in the game with these type of abilities had the same type of numbers</DIV> <DIV>assassin / swashy  transfer? 5%? sure id deal with 3% for ours</DIV> <DIV>but when other classes have 20+% either just deagro, or agro transfer, then why in the hell do we, as t1 dps, have to rely on other classes to get rid of our agro? </DIV> <DIV>doesnt seem really balanced to me</DIV> <DIV>that and also keep in mind that we are the weakest defensive class out there, we wear paper armor, at least scouts have chain armor to help with some of the damage they may take from pulling agro, with a caster, chances are you are gonna die if you pull agro on too serious of a mob</DIV> <DIV>just doesnt make sense</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>yah i wouldnt be upset about it if the other classes in the game with these type of abilities had the same type of numbers</DIV> <DIV>assassin / swashy  transfer? 5%? sure id deal with 3% for ours</DIV> <DIV>but when other classes have 20+% either just deagro, or agro transfer, then why in the hell do we, as t1 dps, have to rely on other classes to get rid of our agro? </DIV> <DIV>doesnt seem really balanced to me</DIV> <DIV>that and also keep in mind that we are the weakest defensive class out there, we wear paper armor, at least scouts have chain armor to help with some of the damage they may take from pulling agro, with a caster, chances are you are gonna die if you pull agro on too serious of a mob</DIV> <DIV>just doesnt make sense</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>technically chain wear-ers in offensive dont have much more than 15-20% higher mitigation than a cloth user.</P> <P>a 12k slash that one shots a wizzie will still one shot a scout.</P> <P>but i get your point.</P><p>Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <P>Also did anyone else catch the nerf to bonus's on power pool sizes to players over lvl 60?</P> <P>I wonder how much this will nerf my power pool when it hits live?  (first we got mental core taken away -300 power, and now this)</P> <P>Maybe I should dig back up my power pool / spell increase chart I made back in the day.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I pondered some more over this and realized that with the addition of 2 slots of gear (earring and cloak)</P> <P>that can potentially add another 250-300 power (depending on quality of item in said gear slots) is why they are going to nerf existing power pool sizes, to counterbalance the extra power gained from the new equipment slots.  WTG devs.<BR></P>

[HomeChicken]

<P>yah i know that chain armor isnt gonna absolutely save anyone, but hell, if we are gonna have worse agro management abilities, let us at LEAST wear the same type of armor?<BR>maybe? anything? something would be neat</P> <P>i dunno i can say im 100% STEAMED about hearing 3% will be the transfer amount... that is seriously the biggest slap in the face i have seen in a while</P> <P>SoE obviously says there is a problem with wizard  / warlock agro management, now lets do something about it instead of throwing out an ability with as low of number possible as you can, sure we will get a agro transfer, but may as well just say *some of the agro generated by the wizard will be taken by magical agro elves back to their home!* and at least then i would know its a POS spell, but i could wait until maybe the magical agro elves came to save me</P> <P>chances are i would be saved by them in a fight quicker than i would by a 3% agro transfer....</P>

[Dejah]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <P>yah i know that chain armor isnt gonna absolutely save anyone, but hell, if we are gonna have worse agro management abilities, let us at LEAST wear the same type of armor?<BR>maybe? anything? something would be neat</P> <P>i dunno i can say im 100% STEAMED about hearing 3% will be the transfer amount... that is seriously the biggest slap in the face i have seen in a while</P> <P>SoE obviously says there is a problem with wizard  / warlock agro management, now lets do something about it instead of throwing out an ability with as low of number possible as you can, sure we will get a agro transfer, but may as well just say *some of the agro generated by the wizard will be taken by magical agro elves back to their home!* and at least then i would know its a POS spell, but i could wait until maybe the magical agro elves came to save me</P> <P>chances are i would be saved by them in a fight quicker than i would by a 3% agro transfer....</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you really think the number should be higher--and trust me I won't complain if it is made higher--then you're going the wrong way about it.  Claiming that it is a slap in the face that their improvements aren't good enough for you makes you sound like a whiner.  IllusiveThoughts is going about it the right way; He uses comparisions to other classes and suggests alternatives such as removing the power proc in return for higher hate reduction. </P> <P>Please don't take this as a personal attack.  I love my class, and just want all wizards to be constructive in their feedback.  It's people like IllusiveThoughts who take a cool, level-headed approached to criticism that has helped make the wizard class what it is today.</P>

[curtlewis]

I think the change is a great step in the right direction. They just need to bump up the transfer to at LEAST 10%, if not 15-20%.Sorcerors require more deaggro support than any other class in the game. Without at least 2 key classes on the raid, I'm severely hampered and without 3-4, I'm not doing T1 dps most likely. Whereas a Summoner does T1 dps with no additional support at all (no deaggro, no brigand). Same for Assassins. Summoners aren't even a T1 class. They should only be doing T1 dps rarely (to fit with Gallenite's statement that he had no problem with them doing T1 dps. Note he didn't say consistently).My only way to do T1 dps is to open the flood gates. And even then, it's highly situational and often dependent on the luck of the die roll (can I AoE? did I land really low Ice Novas and Fusion?). Deaggro is the only thing that gives us a chance to do our job.Again, I love the idea. Please consider raising the amount of hate transfer so that Wizards can perform their jobs without so many requirements and restrictions.

[goboy]

<P>Ok, just found out another detail on our raid (as we speak) - it does not stack.  Only one wizzie can have it on the MT.</P> <P>Just talked to an assassin.  There's does not stack either, but since it does much more one balance they could do is to allow us to stack ours on the MT.</P> <P> </P> <P>Jaly</P><p>Message Edited by goboy on <span class=date_text>08-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 PM</span>

[Crono1321]

Scout aggro transfers are group only, as is amends.  Being able to put it on anyone raid-wide is a plus. <div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

3% hate transfer is stupid... it needs to be at least 15% to make a difference. And I'd like to see it transfers mana to us when the target gets hit <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also concussive needs to be 1sec cast~

[electricninjasex]

For the longest time my hate has been managed by raid setup alone and it never occured to me to even ask for something like this.  Yes the Wizard needs a support system not unlike a Patriot missile battery, but this is a support system the raid needs for its own survival *anyway*.  Coercer and dirge in MT group, troubador in DPS group, illusionist doing ya a favor with Synergism across raid... so many people are following this setup whenever possible anyway that I don't think there's any secret about it.  And if the raid leader gives you the luxury of a paladin in-group, all bets are off (BTW T7 paladins are in vogue now).  So yes, this Accord change is a pleasant surprise, but not one I'm going to be browning my nose over. <div></div>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>dejah you must have missed my first post about 2 posts above the one where i said it was a slap in the face</DIV> <DIV>i related it to other classes agro transfers, explained my point like you said people should in a calm fashion, but im not gonna sit on here and be like OH HEY GREAT THANKS SOE way to do a bang up job!</DIV> <DIV>ill explain that 3% is an insult, may as well have not even really added anything if that is all they were gonna do, no reason that almost every other class that is a DPS class has agro management skills that actually WORK, and we get a 3% transfer and some crappy single target detaunts...</DIV> <DIV>neat</DIV>

[iceriven2]

It is slap in the face...we're t1 dps but yet in 90% of the time in grp's we are not simply b/c we have to manage our agro to where we are at best t2...it's a nice idea to have certian classes needed to to do awsome raid dps...but to perform a task the Dev's said we should have (t1) dps in a grp, its more the exception we do our t1 dps not the rule..hence the reason everyone thinks its a slap in the face.

[KazzySoJaz]

I think 3% is perfect, of course I am a monk but at least you guys get a hate transfer, while us leather wearers will still get beat down more...I wish I had a 3% hate transfer...<div></div>

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>KazzySoJazzy wrote:I think 3% is perfect, of course I am a monk but at least you guys get a hate transfer, while us leather wearers will still get beat down more...I wish I had a 3% hate transfer...<div></div><hr></blockquote>Your a tank, why would you want to give someone else your hate?</div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR>I think 3% is perfect, of course I am a monk but at least you guys get a hate transfer, while us leather wearers will still get beat down more...<BR><BR>I wish I had a 3% hate transfer...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>thanks for your devolution, move along.

[Admh]

    to get this spell effect is great! but to bicker at something that is given to us is another thing i'm concerned about. Imo. whether we have this spell or not we are fine when it comes to aggro. This just makes us a better class in a raid because it makes the tank hold aggro better.. and of course gets the mob off us. just be happy that some of us who doesn't have the luxury actually has something to get away from the int line.my 2cp<div></div>

[Azmoran]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Admhel wrote:<BR>    to get this spell effect is great! but to bicker at something that is given to us is another thing i'm concerned about. Imo. whether we have this spell or not we are fine when it comes to aggro. This just makes us a better class in a raid because it makes the tank hold aggro better.. and of course gets the mob off us. just be happy that some of us who doesn't have the luxury actually has something to get away from the int line.<BR><BR>my 2cp<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe you should take a look at how much damage scout classes can do.....and then look at all the hate transfer abilities they have......then you would understand why people here think the 3% is an insult. It doesn't matter that it's more then we had before, it's still not up to par with other DPS classes. SOE is so scared to give mage classes the same deggro abilities or stat items they hand out like candy to melee.

[KazzySoJaz]

<hr size="2" width="100%">    Your a tank, why would you want to give someone else your hate?<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>Monks = dps dealers in a raid setup we are not tanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  that is for plate wearers. Also you must have a crappy brawler in your guild because in the right setup we usually reach or surpass the dps of casters. (due to aa choices, and equipment) Now with that being said, I still wish I had 3% hate deflection I say the devs take it away from the ungrateful wizzies and give it to us, you guys can have our tanking ability <div></div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:48 AM</span>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>you wanna trade ur tanking abilities for a 3% agro transfer</DIV> <DIV>deal, give us your monk avoidance, give us the abilitiy to wear leather, and may as well give us FD since that is a pretty [Removed for Content] sweet deagro... give monks cloth and a 3% agro transfer and take away all of those things i just said, you would be happy right?</DIV>

[HerzenFunia]

<DIV>3%... oh it's so overpowered. imo we need 1% transfer on m1 spell, and no hate transfer on ad3 and lower...</DIV> <DIV>To be seriosly for me it's more like devs laughing at us. Compare our deagro abilities with scouts. Do we have real transfer? no. Do we have deagro !potions! with sweet proc %? no. Can we do at least good dps (not best) without some classes? no. (Hm mb yeah, but with a lot of repair kits).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that it's good that devs decided to change something, to improove. But 3% is a joke.</DIV>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>HomeChicken wrote:<div>you wanna trade ur tanking abilities for a 3% agro transfer</div> <div>deal, give us your monk avoidance, give us the abilitiy to wear leather, and may as well give us FD since that is a pretty [Removed for Content] sweet deagro... give monks cloth and a 3% agro transfer and take away all of those things i just said, you would be happy right?</div><hr></blockquote>Sounds like someone is mad they rolled a wizzy lol...  also our tanking ability does not include avoidance, that is part of being a monk, FD doesn't work on aggro as well as you think it does, I fd it succeeds I get up and then still get pounded on by the mob, ouchies.  Next, you can have leather, you will still die just as quick, let me tell you from experience [Removed for Content]...If the offer still stands, my crappy hate proc(storm advance) and defensive stance(coiled) for your accord...*Edit*The only thing I agree with in this entire thread is that it does not scale properly, but other than that good job devs.</div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:12 AM</span>

[Admh]

<div><blockquote><hr>Azmoran wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Admhel wrote:    to get this spell effect is great! but to bicker at something that is given to us is another thing i'm concerned about. Imo. whether we have this spell or not we are fine when it comes to aggro. This just makes us a better class in a raid because it makes the tank hold aggro better.. and of course gets the mob off us. just be happy that some of us who doesn't have the luxury actually has something to get away from the int line.my 2cp <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Maybe you should take a look at how much damage scout classes can do.....and then look at all the hate transfer abilities they have......then you would understand why people here think the 3% is an insult. It doesn't matter that it's more then we had before, it's still not up to par with other DPS classes. SOE is so scared to give mage classes the same deggro abilities or stat items they hand out like candy to melee.<hr></blockquote>Okay,,, and your point is? i thought the whole topic was about the hate transfer not our dps. We all know that we are a bonified dps class and everyone who are in a raiding guild can see where we stand at.  All i'm saying is that if Sony has never given us this **new** hate transfer would our dps standings change?.. We were the same as before.. only a lot easier and will be needed in a raid more often. I'm just looking at the raid as a whole, not as a wizard. I don't expect to be pulling off crazy parses against summoners and scouts. We need more power, for starters.. a whole entire princes fight the only way for us to get more dps is to die and use the book to get us to 100% again to compete with melee classes. We don't have any dps modifiers unlike other classes. I.e. Haste, Dps mods, procs, (int/str stats that actually boost procs dmg and combat dmg), dmg ratings on weapons, hate transfers.. and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] YOU SOE for giving us an AA  line that increases our damage but hinders our [Removed for Content] from having 200 extra power and other stats like hp so i could survive better in an ae so that my secondary slot is empty.there happy? i'm not against you, I'm with you I'm a wizard too. For all i care all these crap they're sending us like hate transfers are just a chewed bone so that we'd stop complaining.</div>

[Admh]

    oh and uhh 1 more thing.. u guys got any other spells that you don't use.. cuz since they changed iceshield.. i still don't use it. Now Accord.. this one might actually be in my hotbar. I'm thinking concussive is next. Cuz I haven't used that ever since they gave it to us. why? by the time i'm done casting it, an assassin already dropped 45k damage. thanks SoE <span>:smileyindifferent:</span><div></div>

[Jezekie]

<div><blockquote><hr>Admhel wrote:    oh and uhh 1 more thing.. u guys got any other spells that you don't use.. cuz since they changed iceshield.. i still don't use it. Now Accord.. this one might actually be in my hotbar. I'm thinking concussive is next. Cuz I haven't used that ever since they gave it to us. why? by the time i'm done casting it, an assassin already dropped 45k damage. thanks SoE <span>:smileyindifferent:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Yah I agree. Concussive could do with 0.5 or at max 1 second cast time. It'd be far better off being a straight up de-aggro nuke tho, with a tad higher deaggro points.</div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>you wanna trade ur tanking abilities for a 3% agro transfer</DIV> <DIV>deal, give us your monk avoidance, give us the abilitiy to wear leather, and may as well give us FD since that is a pretty [Removed for Content] sweet deagro... give monks cloth and a 3% agro transfer and take away all of those things i just said, you would be happy right?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Sounds like someone is mad they rolled a wizzy lol...  also our tanking ability does not include avoidance, that is part of being a monk, FD doesn't work on aggro as well as you think it does, I fd it succeeds I get up and then still get pounded on by the mob, ouchies.  Next, you can have leather, you will still die just as quick, let me tell you from experience [Removed for Content]...<BR><BR>If the offer still stands, my crappy hate proc(storm advance) and defensive stance(coiled) for your accord...<BR><BR><BR><BR>*Edit*<BR><BR>The only thing I agree with in this entire thread is that it does not scale properly, but other than that good job devs.<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <SPAN class=date_text>08-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:12 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>what part of move along troll didn't you get.</P> <P>You dont play a wizard you dont understand the issues with our class.  Your an observer viewing this change from the outside looking in, you do not know what its like from the inside looking out.</P> <P>Please troll another board.</P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> KazzySoJazzy wrote: <div></div> <div> <blockquote> <hr> HomeChicken wrote: <div>you wanna trade ur tanking abilities for a 3% agro transfer</div> <div>deal, give us your monk avoidance, give us the abilitiy to wear leather, and may as well give us FD since that is a pretty [Removed for Content] sweet deagro... give monks cloth and a 3% agro transfer and take away all of those things i just said, you would be happy right?</div> <hr> </blockquote>Sounds like someone is mad they rolled a wizzy lol...  also our tanking ability does not include avoidance, that is part of being a monk, FD doesn't work on aggro as well as you think it does, I fd it succeeds I get up and then still get pounded on by the mob, ouchies.  Next, you can have leather, you will still die just as quick, let me tell you from experience [Removed for Content]...If the offer still stands, my crappy hate proc(storm advance) and defensive stance(coiled) for your accord...*Edit*The only thing I agree with in this entire thread is that it does not scale properly, but other than that good job devs.</div> <p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class="date_text">08-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:12 AM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>what part of move along troll didn't you get.</p> <p>You dont play a wizard you dont understand the issues with our class.  Your an observer viewing this change from the outside looking in, you do not know what its like from the inside looking out.</p> <p>Please troll another board.</p><hr></blockquote>Actually my first toon created 2-3 weeks after release was an erudite wizard, who I played to just below 30, I know wizards, and raiding with them for a while now I actually know a lot about them, not a hard class, nuke nuke die nuke nuke die, the ones I know though take the deaths with honor like a good gnome or whatever they are, you sir are one of the omg I have to pay 10 gold to repair all of my crappy items to 100% k thanks.Anyways, not a troll, and I think 3% is plenty enough, if they gave you guys 5% hell even 100% you would still be like omg but X class gets 120% hate transfer, boo hoo.Thanks....*edit*Speaking of troll check out your post count, nice</div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:41 PM</span>

[Victicu]

<div></div><div></div>First off, high post count does not mean your a troll.Secondly, your a crappy monk if you think you cant tank.  And even wrose if you see yourself as a DPS class.And lastly, your pretty much an idiot who played wizard to lvl 30 and thinks you know all about the class.  Your saying its ok that we have aggro problems and we should take our deaths with honor??  Do you understand that pulling aggro on raids is bad, we dont care about our repair bills, we care about doing as much DPS as possible without pulling aggro.  Are you so dimwitted to see that Sorcerers have the least de-aggro tools of all scouts and mages??  But then again, all of this is coming from someone who claims monks are more of a DPS class than Tank class.  I guess they gave you taunts for no reason at all.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Victicus7 on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:17 PM</span>

[KazzySoJaz]

We have 2 taunts... lol one is a single mob taunt and one is encounter, maybe you should read up on a class before you make remarks, and while I only played a wizzy to 30 how far have you played a monk.Also I parse 900 + in a bad raid group setup and 1200+ in a good group setup constantly on trash mobs and nameds.So again know what your saying before you talk <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Also I just was reminded that monks might be getting a hate reducer as an AA choice in the next expansion so I apologize for trying to pawn off my crappy tank abilities as I now will have both muahaha, jack of all trades FTW<div></div>

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>KazzySoJazzy wrote:We have 2 taunts... lol one is a single mob taunt and one is encounter, maybe you should read up on a class before you make remarks, and while I only played a wizzy to 30 how far have you played a monk.Also I parse 900 + in a bad raid group setup and 1200+ in a good group setup constantly on trash mobs and nameds.So again know what your saying before you talk <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Also I just was reminded that monks might be getting a hate reducer as an AA choice in the next expansion so I apologize for trying to pawn off my crappy tank abilities as I now will have both muahaha, jack of all trades FTW<div></div><hr></blockquote>Again, why do you post here?  Clearly, you have no clue what a wizard can do on raids.  You also have no clue what a monk can do on raids.  Monks can be great tanks at raids, our brawlers off tank all the time.  So go on and brag about your exteremely crappy 1200 dps, you'll never know the full potential of a brawler.</div>

[The Ban]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR>We have 2 taunts... lol one is a single mob taunt and one is encounter, maybe you should read up on a class before you make remarks, and while I only played a wizzy to 30 how far have you played a monk.<BR><BR>Also I parse 900 + in a bad raid group setup and 1200+ in a good group setup constantly on trash mobs and nameds.<BR><BR>So again know what your saying before you talk <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <BR><BR>Also I just was reminded that monks might be getting a hate reducer as an AA choice in the next expansion so I apologize for trying to pawn off my crappy tank abilities as I now will have both muahaha, jack of all trades FTW<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You also have a % chance to proc a taunt. Maybe you should learn your own class cause 1200 DPS isn't all that good.

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>fact of the matter is 3% is BS no matter how you look at it</DIV> <DIV>when you got other classes that have 20+% threat transfer or just deagro, and then they give us 2-3%? </DIV> <DIV>thanks soe, you admitted we needed something like this, and then you slap us in the face with a worthless 2-3%</DIV> <DIV>make that 5-10% and id think it would be cool</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A) Warlock and Wizzie stack</P> <P>B) Ours can be cast out of group theres can't</P> <P>C) Agro control isn't that big of issue if you have a good tank that an additional 6% hate on tank should be a huge help! <Warlock here></P> <P>D) if you think its worthless don't cast it. </P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mastire wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>fact of the matter is 3% is BS no matter how you look at it</DIV> <DIV>when you got other classes that have 20+% threat transfer or just deagro, and then they give us 2-3%? </DIV> <DIV>thanks soe, you admitted we needed something like this, and then you slap us in the face with a worthless 2-3%</DIV> <DIV>make that 5-10% and id think it would be cool</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A) Warlock and Wizzie stack</P> <P>B) Ours can be cast out of group theres can't</P> <P>C) Agro control isn't that big of issue if you have a good tank that an additional 6% hate on tank should be a huge help! <Warlock here></P> <P>D) if you think its worthless don't cast it. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A) your wrong they do not stack on live, your a fool if you think otherwise or you dont group with a warlock enough to know.</P> <P>C) you must not do enough dps to know that agro controll isn't an issue.</P> <P>D) no one is saying its worthless, its better than NOTHING, but to give us something as pitiful as 3% its just rediculous.</P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR><BR>Actually my first toon created 2-3 weeks after release was an erudite wizard, who I played to just below 30, I know wizards, and raiding with them for a while now I actually know a lot about them, not a hard class, nuke nuke die nuke nuke die, the ones I know though take the deaths with honor like a good gnome or whatever they are, you sir are one of the omg I have to pay 10 gold to repair all of my crappy items to 100% k thanks.<BR><BR>Anyways, not a troll, and I think 3% is plenty enough, if they gave you guys 5% hell even 100% you would still be like omg but X class gets 120% hate transfer, boo hoo.<BR><BR>Thanks....<BR><BR>*edit*<BR><BR>Speaking of troll check out your post count, nice<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <SPAN class=date_text>08-20-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:41 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>actually my first toon was a wizard and I created it at release.  Guess what I still play that wizard daily, guess what lvl 30 you still haven't gotten the aoe root, so you know jack squat about a wizard class especially on a raid. </P> <P>Last bit of food I'm going to feed you troll, go away, get a life, go [Removed for Content] up another forum.</P>

[Eight_tracks]

Ok, I have a lvl 70 Wiz in a raiding guild, and have to say, this thread is really [Removed for Content] me off.  Is everyone really complaining that SOE is GREATLY IMPROVING ONE OF OUR SPELLS?  How many wizards out there NEVER get to use this spell since the wizard will almost never be in the MT group on a raid.  And no one even seems to mention how great this is that we have a spell that will feed power to the MT without costing us anything.  Or that we are now the ONLY class that will have a cross-raid hate transfer.  OMG, how terrible, SOE looked at one of our spells that we weren't even complaining about and made it much better.  Please, everyone, stop complaining.  We are T1 dps, getting regular spell improvements, and dont have any truly broken abilities.  Any other class would love to have our "problems."-Kiryn70 Wizard, Sanctus Immortalis, Nektulos<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eight_tracks wrote:<BR>Ok, I have a lvl 70 Wiz in a raiding guild, and have to say, this thread is really [Removed for Content] me off.  Is everyone really complaining that SOE is GREATLY IMPROVING ONE OF OUR SPELLS?  How many wizards out there NEVER get to use this spell since the wizard will almost never be in the MT group on a raid.  And no one even seems to mention how great this is that we have a spell that will feed power to the MT without costing us anything.  Or that we are now the ONLY class that will have a cross-raid hate transfer.  OMG, how terrible, SOE looked at one of our spells that we weren't even complaining about and made it much better.  <BR><BR>Please, everyone, stop complaining.  We are T1 dps, getting regular spell improvements, and dont have any truly broken abilities.  Any other class would love to have our "problems."<BR><BR><BR>-Kiryn<BR>70 Wizard, Sanctus Immortalis, Nektulos<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Are you that blind? did you just skim through the thread and then decide you should post your 2 cents worth without reading through it all?</P> <P>If you did read it most of us do like the change, and have stated so.  If you think 3% hate transfer isn't complete crap you are either 1. spoiled for hate reduction on a raid, 2. dont do enough dps to know that we have the worst agro management on raids.</P> <P>You should also realize that the wizard / warlock one does not stack, and only can have one on the main tank at a time.</P> <P>Last I checked everyone was complaining about the hate transfer portion being rediculous, NOT the power proc.<BR></P>

[claimabstra]

<P>I believe this is a positive change.  As noted in a previous post in this thread, raiding wizards generally are not in the MT group, so Anomalism is an inactive buff on raids.  While 3% does not sound like a large amount, it is 3% more hate for the MT and 3% less hate for you if you are the highest dps wizard (if, in fact, this buff will not stack with two wizards in raid).  The MTs I have raided with of late have had little issue holding aggro almost all of the time.  Yes, I do steal aggro once in a while, but that is one of the challenges of being a wizard.  The additional c. 6% will mean that I will have that much more breathing room, or room for error as I think of it.</P> <P>Do I think this change is perfect?  No.  I would like to see it stack for multiple sorcerers in a raid.  That to me would really make a big difference as, with three sorcerers in a raid, the MT's aggro would be increased by 9% (of our average dmg) and each sorcerer's aggro would be reduced by 3% (assuming all sorcerers have this buff at M1), resulting in a net change in aggro relative to the MT of c. 12% for each sorcerer.</P>

[Eight_tracks]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Eight_tracks wrote:Ok, I have a lvl 70 Wiz in a raiding guild, and have to say, this thread is really [Removed for Content] me off.  Is everyone really complaining that SOE is GREATLY IMPROVING ONE OF OUR SPELLS?  How many wizards out there NEVER get to use this spell since the wizard will almost never be in the MT group on a raid.  And no one even seems to mention how great this is that we have a spell that will feed power to the MT without costing us anything.  Or that we are now the ONLY class that will have a cross-raid hate transfer.  OMG, how terrible, SOE looked at one of our spells that we weren't even complaining about and made it much better.  Please, everyone, stop complaining.  We are T1 dps, getting regular spell improvements, and dont have any truly broken abilities.  Any other class would love to have our "problems."-Kiryn70 Wizard, Sanctus Immortalis, Nektulos <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Are you that blind? did you just skim through the thread and then decide you should post your 2 cents worth without reading through it all?</p> <p>If you did read it most of us do like the change, and have stated so.  If you think 3% hate transfer isn't complete crap you are either 1. spoiled for hate reduction on a raid, 2. dont do enough dps to know that we have the worst agro management on raids.</p> <p>You should also realize that the wizard / warlock one does not stack, and only can have one on the main tank at a time.</p> <p>Last I checked everyone was complaining about the hate transfer portion being rediculous, NOT the power proc.</p><hr></blockquote>Yea, some people have talked about the power proc, but you can't tell me that the direction of this thread has anything to do with that.  One person talks about it then the next 3 complain about the hate transfer.Does 3% suck?  Yea, show me one class with a better cross-raid hate transfer.  We now have an ability that no other class in the game does.  Spoiled for hate reduction on raid?  not sure what the means.    And as for DPS, yes, any wizard that raids can pull agro off the tank whenever they please.  Its part of playing the class.  We are doing T1 DPS right now, and we can do it without pulling agro.  If you are pulling argo, either your tank is to blame, or you need to realize that this class isnt just "click every nuke as fast as you can".  And no, Wizards arent the worst agro managment, any class not using their abilities properly is. (Except for Warlocks, you guys really get screwed <span>for argo :smileysad:</span>)And no, multiple de-agro buffs of the same type dont stack.  It not just this spell, its any hate transfer from similar classes.  You are asking for something no other class has.All sony has done here is change the spell to cross-raid.  Guess what, they gave us a free bonus too.  I beleive the saying is "don't look a gift horse in the mouth."  Sony has given us a gift, thank you.-KirynEDIT:  spelling</div><p>Message Edited by Eight_tracks on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:26 AM</span>

[electricninjasex]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Eight_tracks wrote:<div></div><div> And as for DPS, yes, any wizard that raids can pull agro off the tank whenever they please.</div><hr></blockquote>If you are correctly assisting, the tank is correctly taunting, and the raid is correctly set up, then the answer is No You Can't. Maybe I've been spoiled too long, but the biggest factor working against wizards IMO is getting the right classes to sign on for raids each night.<p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:54 AM</span>

[Falcogen]

<P>Pretty interesting thread for a change</P> <P>To the monk doing an almight 1200 dps you my friend are a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to think that you are doing a good job back to your own boards please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], if i did 1200 or less on a mob i would wanna kill myself.</P> <P>Basically i see the change as cool we are going to give 3% hate across raid thats 3% more than they had before so this has got to be positive. You guys can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan all you like about wether its enough or not but frankly something is better than nothing and we can make do without atm so thumbs up for me and lets see how it works on a 3-way fusion</P> <P>Btw changed my AA's to str 4 4 4 8 and wis 4 8 4 8 it ownz (5 spare in random [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) lyceum zonewide 1580 with troub no other buffs only died twice too KOBAL FTW !!</P> <P>Lets see how this works for us before bashing it. It's a nice addition to our non existent utility</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Eight_tracks]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Eight_tracks wrote:<div></div><div> And as for DPS, yes, any wizard that raids can pull agro off the tank whenever they please.</div><hr></blockquote>If you are correctly assisting, the tank is correctly taunting, <span></span>and the raid is correctly set up, then the answer is No You Can't. Maybe I've been spoiled too long, but the biggest factor working against wizards IMO is getting the right classes to sign on for raids each night.<p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class="date_text">08-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ok, maybe I overstepped a bit.  Seeing as you have a coercer you can pretty much control who can pull agro, you know what youre talkin about.  Fun, isnt it? <span>:smileyvery-happy:  Yes, if the raid is setup properly, a wizard has to put every bit of effort into grabbing agro, ie. cold debuff > Ice Nova > freehand casting > fusion.  but thats really only if they are looking to prove a point.  With a well-setup raid and buffed properly, the wizard cannot pull agro unless they are trying, and even then it may not happen.-KirynP.S.  Good to see im not the only one that has a Wizard and Coercer.  </span></div>

[electricninjasex]

<blockquote><hr>Eight_tracks wrote:<div> Ok, maybe I overstepped a bit.  Seeing as you have a coercer you can pretty much control who can pull agro, you know what youre talkin about.  Fun, isnt it? <span>:smileyvery-happy:  Yes, if the raid is setup properly, a wizard has to put every bit of effort into grabbing agro, ie. cold debuff > Ice Nova > freehand casting > fusion.  but thats really only if they are looking to prove a point.  With a well-setup raid and buffed properly, the wizard cannot pull agro unless they are trying, and even then it may not happen.-KirynP.S.  Good to see im not the only one that has a Wizard and Coercer.  </span></div><hr></blockquote>Just keep in mind what I mean by assisting: everyone attacking one mob at a time, which is what the wizard class are optimized for.  When you're doing 3-target Fusion, you're not assisting, and you're approaching that realm of sadness that exists in the Warlock forum.  When correctly assisting with the right hate setup, no degree of supremely total apocalyptic destruction coming out of your fingers will pull the mob at you. Ok, when you're fighting orange epics (only 2-3 that I know of) and the tank's taunts get resisted, then fine, you adjust a bit.  But that's the exception and not the rule.  And ok again, if you're ice nova'ing on pull then 9 times out of 10 you need a smack in the head. P.S. Words can't really describe how awesome the coercer class is.

[Victicu]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote: P.S. Words can't really describe how awesome the coercer class is.<hr></blockquote>If your coercer is on a different account as your wizard, like mine, you always get first dips on Link =)</div>

[Eight_tracks]

<div><blockquote><hr>Victicus7 wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote: P.S. Words can't really describe how awesome the coercer class is.<hr></blockquote>If your coercer is on a different account as your wizard, like mine, you always get first dips on Link =)</div><hr></blockquote>Wow, not to mention the great thread hijack, I'm starting to see a pattern with people playing Wizards and Coercers.  Wonder why?  I know it was because I really wanted a pet and didn't want my choices limited <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Not to mention the guild was pretty much begging for some regen.  -Kiryn</div>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ShaneFalco wrote:<div></div> <p>Pretty interesting thread for a change</p> <p>To the monk doing an almight 1200 dps you my friend are a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to think that you are doing a good job back to your own boards please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], if i did 1200 or less on a mob i would wanna kill myself.</p> <p>Basically i see the change as cool we are going to give 3% hate across raid thats 3% more than they had before so this has got to be positive. You guys can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan all you like about wether its enough or not but frankly something is better than nothing and we can make do without atm so thumbs up for me and lets see how it works on a 3-way fusion</p> <p>Btw changed my AA's to str 4 4 4 8 and wis 4 8 4 8 it ownz (5 spare in random [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) lyceum zonewide 1580 with troub no other buffs only died twice too KOBAL FTW !!</p> <p>Lets see how this works for us before bashing it. It's a nice addition to our non existent utility</p> <hr></blockquote>Sorry was gonna not reply to anyone else but this guy just needed a slap, so <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you actually read the posts, mr almighty, you would see I said constant as in all the time, I can easily parse 1600+ seen a bruiser with similar gear parse 1900+ on a single trash mob fight.  (I would like to see your parses)I am starting to see more people like the idea of cross raid 3% is nice to see, less whining more praising which is what you all should be doing.Also for those of you saying oh I dont have a wizzy @ 70 if I honestly wanted to (which I dont and wont) I could have my wizzy there in a month or so...*edit* These are my boards also btw, again, if you read everything I said, I also have a wizzy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:54 PM</span>

[Eight_tracks]

<div><blockquote><hr>KazzySoJazzy wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ShaneFalco wrote:<div></div> <p>Pretty interesting thread for a change</p> <p>To the monk doing an almight 1200 dps you my friend are a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to think that you are doing a good job back to your own boards please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], if i did 1200 or less on a mob i would wanna kill myself.</p> <p>Basically i see the change as cool we are going to give 3% hate across raid thats 3% more than they had before so this has got to be positive. You guys can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan all you like about wether its enough or not but frankly something is better than nothing and we can make do without atm so thumbs up for me and lets see how it works on a 3-way fusion</p> <p>Btw changed my AA's to str 4 4 4 8 and wis 4 8 4 8 it ownz (5 spare in random [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) lyceum zonewide 1580 with troub no other buffs only died twice too KOBAL FTW !!</p> <p>Lets see how this works for us before bashing it. It's a nice addition to our non existent utility</p> <hr></blockquote>Sorry was gonna not reply to anyone else but this guy just needed a slap, so <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you actually read the posts, mr almighty, you would see I said constant as in all the time, I can easily parse 1600+ seen a bruiser with similar gear parse 1900+ on a single trash mob fight.  (I would like to see your parses)I am starting to see more people like the idea of cross raid 3% is nice to see, less whining more praising which is what you all should be doing.Also for those of you saying oh I dont have a wizzy @ 70 if I honestly wanted to (which I dont and wont) I could have my wizzy there in a month or so...*edit* These are my boards also btw, again, if you read everything I said, I also have a wizzy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class="date_text">08-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Great, you have a wizard, i didnt see you posting about it.  I saw mention of your brusier.  This is not an "I-am-ubah-DPS!!!1!!11" discussion.  Please dont come here just to try to start a fight.  Great, you can get high DPS.  That's wonderful. And that has what to do with our spell change?   Oh, and comming to our board and talking down about having a high lvl wizard really isnt a way to get anyone here to listen to you.  You say you have a wizzy, but its not even something you list in your sig.  Just cause I make a low lvl brusier dosn't mean that I should be posting how great my wizard is on the brusier forums. -Kiryn</div>

[curtlewis]

To those claiming they do 1600dps constantly, do a merge in ACT of your entire raid. Then sit down and shut up, because it won't be NEAR 1600...How quickly they forget those 600dps pulls (when all the big shots are down) and how they only remember the big numbered ones...

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> curtlewis wrote:<BR>To those claiming they do 1600dps constantly, do a merge in ACT of your entire raid. Then sit down and shut up, because it won't be NEAR 1600...<BR><BR>How quickly they forget those 600dps pulls (when all the big shots are down) and how they only remember the big numbered ones...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>or the fact that while you can parse high (big hits at the end of a fight) when you merge the entire zone it lowers itself out quite conciderably even if you are doing 1400-2K a fight (in ext dps) you can and will parse on the low end of 1400 for a zone.  This I can be sure of.

[Falcogen]

<DIV>Not really sure if the starting a flame about dps was aimed at me but i'll bite anyway</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm merely saying that even a 3% cross raid hate transfer will overall help everyones dps. Which is something we didnt have before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if people think i've derailed this into dps, my bad but the change will help dps and even if its just 3% its still significant. The change is prolly over due as we do such crazy burst damage and yeah id love it to be 40% but what fun would that be ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At 40% hate transfer you would never pull aggro never die and take all skill away from playing.</DIV>

[Admh]

<div><blockquote><hr>ShaneFalco wrote:<div></div> <p>Pretty interesting thread for a change</p> <p>To the monk doing an almight 1200 dps you my friend are a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to think that you are doing a good job back to your own boards please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], if i did 1200 or less on a mob i would wanna kill myself.</p> <p>Basically i see the change as cool we are going to give 3% hate across raid thats 3% more than they had before so this has got to be positive. You guys can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan all you like about wether its enough or not but frankly something is better than nothing and we can make do without atm so thumbs up for me and lets see how it works on a 3-way fusion</p> <p>Btw changed my AA's to str 4 4 4 8 and wis 4 8 4 8 it ownz (5 spare in random [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) lyceum zonewide 1580 with troub no other buffs only died twice too KOBAL FTW !!</p> <p>Lets see how this works for us before bashing it. It's a nice addition to our non existent utility</p> <hr></blockquote>Falc.. lemme correct ya.. thats 1200 autoattack <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.. pretty nice eh? /rude sony</div>

[Code2501]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ShaneFalco wrote:<BR> <P>Pretty interesting thread for a change</P> <P>To the monk doing an almight 1200 dps you my friend are a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to think that you are doing a good job back to your own boards please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], if i did 1200 or less on a mob i would wanna kill myself.</P> <P>Basically i see the change as cool we are going to give 3% hate across raid thats 3% more than they had before so this has got to be positive. You guys can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan all you like about wether its enough or not but frankly something is better than nothing and we can make do without atm so thumbs up for me and lets see how it works on a 3-way fusion</P> <P>Btw changed my AA's to str 4 4 4 8 and wis 4 8 4 8 it ownz (5 spare in random [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) lyceum zonewide 1580 with troub no other buffs only died twice too KOBAL FTW !!</P> <P>Lets see how this works for us before bashing it. It's a nice addition to our non existent utility</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry was gonna not reply to anyone else but this guy just needed a slap, so <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>If you actually read the posts, mr almighty, you would see I said constant as in all the time, I can easily parse 1600+ seen a bruiser with similar gear parse 1900+ on a single trash mob fight.  (I would like to see your parses)<BR><BR>I am starting to see more people like the idea of cross raid 3% is nice to see, less whining more praising which is what you all should be doing.<BR><BR>Also for those of you saying oh I dont have a wizzy @ 70 if I honestly wanted to (which I dont and wont) I could have my wizzy there in a month or so...<BR><BR><BR>*edit*<BR>These are my boards also btw, again, if you read everything I said, I also have a wizzy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <SPAN class=date_text>08-21-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:54 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Dude, what on earth are you doing trolling the Wiz boards? you wish you had 3% de-agro for your monk??? I would much rather they fixed our monk abilities like Mountain Stance and Tsunami than give me, a TANK, a de-agro ability...</P> <P>Yes, on raids monks are usually delegated to 2nd class DPS (read that corectly, 2nd class, and thats with other classes buffing us with dps mods and procs) because mitigation rules when tanking t7 epics, but dude you want a agro transfer ability??? If you think your DPS you rolled the wrong class, I think you ment to hit brigand or assasin at the character select screen because they both can out dps a monk by a mile, and brigs can even pseudo tank in a pinch if you just wanted a versatile melee dpser.</P> <P>Amoung several other t5-7 toons I have a 45 Wiz and a 70 Monk, unlike you i'm not confused about what my monk is and what my Wizz is.</P> <P>You may have been trying to initially make a point that people should not look a gift horse in the mouth, but the way you tried to make that point was clumbsy and the tripe you've been spilling since is just silly.</P> <P>In brief, get a clue.</P>