anothe study from parse for Damages, Crit line [Archive]

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ailees

08-04-2006, 06:08 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div>I am in holidays. Nobody home. Then I can <strike>slack </strike>work on logs.I took the whole log of a harla dar raid, and studied it in a wizard only point of view.I asked to the other wizzard if I could publish this study, because I think it is a good way to try and improve your damages.This place is all about killing fast all mobs to have enough time to kill the dragon before they repop.We missed twice and killed on 3d attempt.Basic idea is very simple : cast the spell that does maximum damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />the only problem is to find what is this spell. As you already know, I worked a lot about pure damages(see my may 2006 report : http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/wizard.html)1/ IN and FUSION must be used asap when catalyst is up and mob not at 90% for fusion, of course ; Both spells complete 25/30 % of our total damage. For wizards who are, as W2 and me, in a crit line, this can't be done if we are not protected by a paladin. If not, we loose around 25% of our damages, it is a lot (I computed this 25% with lots of parsers, comparing with or without paladin in same place, trying to take into account that if I cast too soon I die, then I loose time and damages)2/ Ball of Lava must be used asap it refreshes, even in AE fights ; it gives much more damages than INCAPACITATE (and the stun part of this last one is not usefull when problem is to kill asap.. or if mobs are heroic)3/ FIRESTORM is better than Irradiate and Sunstrike (using that one is not good) even for one mob4/ in AE fights, Forge of Ro is very good, even with 2 mobs, and must be cast asap. Of course if MT moves a lot, it is not so good, but anyway is valuable.5/ casting order :<ul><li>FoR to begin any AE fight or more than 2 mobs (maybe 1 because of debuff effect)</li><li>IN and Fusion with Catalyst asap (paying attention to aggro, but we already know, no casting without catalyst)</li><li>if I use Fusion with catalyst, I cast IN just after, because it will refresh fast enough to be cast with next catalyst.</li><li>Ball of Lava then Glacial Wind (if more than 1 mob, and if ready) then Firestorm then Cold DS</li><li>Incapacitate if nothing up, but that's trivial (and one of the upper spells should be up.)</li></ul>I put the html file into my web site : <a href="http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/arla-dar.htm" target="_blank">http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/arla-dar.htm</a>now please tell me what you think about that ?<div></div>Message Edited : correction on cast order, due to some remarks about my own stats !Message Edited by ailees on 08-05-2006 02:55 AM

IllusiveThoughts

08-04-2006, 08:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ailees wrote: I am in holidays. Nobody home. Then I can <STRIKE>slack </STRIKE>work on logs. I took the whole log of a harla dar raid, and studied it in a wizard only point of view. I asked to the other wizzard if I could publish this study, because I think it is a good way to try and improve your damages. This place is all about killing fast all mobs to have enough time to kill the dragon before they repop. We missed twice and killed on 3d attempt. Basic idea is very simple : cast the spell that does maximum damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> the only problem is to find what is this spell. As you already know, I worked a lot about pure damages (see my may 2006 report : http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/wizard.html) 1/ IN and FUSION must be used asap when catalyst is up and mob not at 90% for fusion, of course ; Both spells complete 25/30 % of our total damage. For wizards who are, as W2 and me, in a crit line, this can't be done if we are not protected by a paladin. If not, we loose around 25% of our damages, it is a lot (I computed this 25% with lots of parsers, comparing with or without paladin in same place, trying to take into account that if I cast too soon I die, then I loose time and damages) 2/ Ball of Lava must be used asap it refreshes, even in AE fights ; it gives much more damages than INCAPACITATE (and the stun part of this last one is not usefull when problem is to kill asap.. or if mobs are heroic) 3/ FIRESTORM is better than Irradiate and Sunstrike (using that one is not good) even for one mob 4/ in AE fights, Forge of Ro is very good, even with 2 mobs, and must be cast asap. Of course if MT moves a lot, it is not so good, but anyway is valuable. 5/ casting order : <UL> <LI>IN and Fusion with Catalyst asap (paying attention to aggro, but we already know)</LI> <LI>if I use Fusion with catalyst, I cast IN just after, because it will refresh fast enough to be cast with next catalyst. </LI> <LI>FoR to begin any AE fight or more than 2 mobs (maybe 1 ? not sure, depends on mana) </LI> <LI>Ball of Lava then Firestorm then Cold DS</LI> <LI>Incapacitate if nothing up, but that's trivial </LI></UL> I put the html file into my web site : <A href="http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/arla-dar.htm" target=_blank>http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/arla-dar.htm</A> now please tell me what you think about that ? Message Edited by ailees on 08-04-2006 07:09 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> thats about what i've come to conclusion, only difference for me is Irradiate does more dmg than firestorm against singles (i have it at m1 and firestorm adp3) so I prioritize irradiate over firestorm. and harla dar is a good example of what a wizard can do if there was no power consumption issues, yelling every add and chain nuking nonstop for 10-15 minutes gives a great parse sample of each class. Only problem is you need a troub or at least amends or the mobs can randomly peel off the mt and on you. The other issue with harla dar is constant movement, its hard to time when the MT will move and when and where to put down pets like FOR, and cast fusion so the timers aren't wasted.

ailees

08-05-2006, 07:56 PM

>IT Only problem is you need a troub or at least amends or the mobs can randomly peel off the mt and on youoh yes, if you are not protected, you loose tons of damages. The study I made is with 2 pallies protecting both wizzards !>IT The other issue with harla dar is constant movement, its hard to time when the MT will move and when and where to put down pets like FOR, and cast fusion so the timers aren't wasted.also perfectly true. We had a nice raid leader who was thinking about that, then he was announcing next moves some 10 seconds before true move of tank.Enough to avoid casting catalyst and breaking fusion ! For FoR, i cast it just after a move, and generally it last long enough to wait for next move.<div></div>

TheBu

08-06-2006, 12:05 AM

alsome.. great post man never seen your info on the spell before. I 2 had takin a look at the numbers... I looked at more of the casting times and recast times I was more suttle about the "spells" to use in my post about dps but on Sunstrike i have 2 disagree. I never use this spell as it does not do enuf damage per casting time. even 4 the master the spell is like less than 700dps besides ice nova, fusion and pets and iceshield.. i c BoL, Incapacate, irradiate and rendering icicles being the top dps per casting times. then Firestorm, Glacial winds and fiery convusions. if 3 or more in the group then i think about using electric flash toss in some procin spells.. . and that about my spell lineup. as far as using BoL even in groups?. . .aw it does great dps on the casting time, but with 3 or more mobs... it can not out do the damge for Firestorm, Glacial winds or Electric flash. I would use it for filler between the casting times of the aoes

ailees

08-06-2006, 01:59 PM

>but on Sunstrike i have 2 disagree. I never use this spellthen you agree ! i don't use it, too low>it can not out do the damge for Firestorm, Glacial winds or Electric flash. I would use it for filler between the casting times of the aoesI also agree for not using BoL when there are 4 mobs in the group ; IF, and only IF, they are grouped ! if you have 2 groups of 2, BoL is better than GW or EF.P.S. after that study, I started moving my keys on my hot bar to be more effecient... I put Firestorm and FoR just at the side of BoL with both macro for IN and Fusion. works well.<div></div>

SacDaddy420

08-10-2006, 09:27 AM

i like your style ailees. It sounds alot like mine.<div></div>

Admh

08-10-2006, 06:01 PM

huh? if it's ae.. I use freehand + catalyst + glacial winds. That's guaranteed over 10k damage. Then drop a forge of ro, Firestorm.. (remember forge of ro has a 1k+ heat debuff AE!!), cast the ice proc.. then shocking or fusion depending on the situation.

IllusiveThoughts

08-10-2006, 08:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Admhel wrote: huh? if it's ae.. I use freehand + catalyst + glacial winds. That's guaranteed over 10k damage. Then drop a forge of ro, Firestorm.. (remember forge of ro has a 1k+ heat debuff AE!!), cast the ice proc.. then shocking or fusion depending on the situation. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> use catalyst twice, once for glacial winds and save freehand for fusion and the 2nd catalyst.

ailees

08-10-2006, 11:03 PM

ctalyst twice in AE fight ? seems a long ae <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />it all depends if fusion is up or not, and how mobs are situated : a triple fusion does much more damages than GW.<div></div>

IllusiveThoughts

08-10-2006, 11:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ailees wrote: ctalyst twice in AE fight ? seems a long ae <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it all depends if fusion is up or not, and how mobs are situated : a triple fusion does much more damages than GW. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> cast catalyst before the fight, since the buff stays up for 1min, and use if you time the pull and fight you can use it a 2nd time in the fight immidiately after the first goes off (depending on how many seconds is left) in otherwords catalyst prior to pull (about 45-50s prior) then glacial winds, forge of ro, firestorm (catalyst is about ready to use again) then catalyst freehand fusion. bam instant agro (or if proper hate reduction poor paly dies) 70-75k dmg in 14 or so seconds, and a 5k dps spike if a 3 mob encounter. Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 08-10-2006 12:25 PM

Tornadicc

08-11-2006, 12:22 AM

<DIV> </DIV>Message Edited by Tornadicc on 08-10-2006 04:38 PM

TheBu

08-11-2006, 05:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote: in otherwords catalyst prior to pull (about 45-50s prior) then glacial winds, forge of ro, firestorm (catalyst is about ready to use again) then catalyst freehand fusion. bam instant agro (or if proper hate reduction poor paly dies) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> You gota love tanks and thier int.. . but dont you feel guilty about the pally?

IllusiveThoughts

08-11-2006, 09:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheBuzZ wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote: in otherwords catalyst prior to pull (about 45-50s prior) then glacial winds, forge of ro, firestorm (catalyst is about ready to use again) then catalyst freehand fusion. bam instant agro (or if proper hate reduction poor paly dies) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> You gota love tanks and thier int.. . but dont you feel guilty about the pally? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> usually gets agro on trash mobs, so the healers can for the most part keep him alive until the MT feigns him or rescues off him. at any rate he lives longer than I do if I get agro, so i think its better to have the paly get the agro instead of me.

ailees

08-11-2006, 10:41 AM

hehe, that's their job anyway !my only problem is that 1/2 raid I don't have a pally with me... and it is true that as a tank, I sux a lot.<div></div>

duuf

08-12-2006, 02:39 AM

Illu wrote: cast catalyst before the fight, since the buff stays up for 1min, and use if you time the pull and fight you can use it a 2nd time in the fight immidiately after the first goes off (depending on how many seconds is left) in otherwords catalyst prior to pull (about 45-50s prior) then glacial winds, forge of ro, firestorm (catalyst is about ready to use again) then catalyst freehand fusion. bam instant agro (or if proper hate reduction poor paly dies) 70-75k dmg in 14 or so seconds, and a 5k dps spike if a 3 mob encounter. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________ Hmm, does all this mean Illu has or might convert to the strength line, Hmm Doubling up on catalyst is my favorite strategy. The spell not mentioned that my wiz uses regularly is proto (master 1). Just for grins my wiz has let the dumbfire solo some non heroic mobs and he does very decent damage. Duufuss lvl 70 pally Duffus lvl 70 wiz Everfrost <div></div>

IllusiveThoughts

08-12-2006, 03:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rtwitty wrote: Hmm, does all this mean Illu has or might convert to the strength line, Hmm Doubling up on catalyst is my favorite strategy. The spell not mentioned that my wiz uses regularly is proto (master 1). Just for grins my wiz has let the dumbfire solo some non heroic mobs and he does very decent damage. Duufuss lvl 70 pally Duffus lvl 70 wiz Everfrost <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I cant take credit for thinking up that, another wizard posted it in one of the aa line discussion threads here, I'm just relaying the information given to me. Although I cant remember what the person who posted it's user name was.

setesh

08-12-2006, 09:14 PM

<DIV>Thanks for the valuable information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a few other tips. When I calculate DPS of a spell, I make one important assumption: a given fight will last long enough for a spell to do all its damage, even damage-over-time spells and reactives. This makes DoTs and direct-damage spells comparable and allows you to calculate spell DPS as a function of casting time. Also, all these numbers and rankings are based on my character's current spell quality. There might be some small amount of shifting based on your own spells. I use the average spell damage, (min + max) / 2, in my calculations. I have also left out several spells such as Protoferno, Forge of Ro, Fiery Convulsions and Frigid Gift - they're on my To Do List.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Single Target FIghts</DIV> <OL> <LI>Surging Tempest is actually our highest DPS spell as a function of casting time. Approximately 6200 damage (A3), 3.0 second casting time, 2066 DPS.</LI> <LI>Iceshield is almost as good when it triggers three times. Approximately 2000 damage @ Master II, 1.0 second casting time, 2000 DPS.</LI> <LI>Even Glacial Wind (A3) is superior to Sunstrike (M1) and Irradiate (M1) on a single target.</LI> <LI>Firestorm (A3) is approximately 727 DPS per target. It should always be used over Sunstrike (M1) and Irradiate (M1) if it is available.</LI> <LI>Glacial Wind (A3) is approximately 629 DPS per target. It should always be used over Sunstrike (M1) and Irradiate (M1) if it is available.</LI></OL> <DIV>Multi-Target Fights</DIV> <OL> <LI>Electrifying Flash (M1) is approximately 411 DPS per target. It doesn't become good DPS unless you have at least 3 targets.</LI> <LI>Firestorm (A3) should be used as frequently as possible on 2 or more targets.</LI> <LI>Glacial Wind (A3) is approximately 629 DPS per target. It should always be used over Sunstrike (M1) and Irradiate (M1) if it is available, and it should be used as frequently as possible on 2 or more targets.</LI></OL> <DIV>Here are my top DPS spells for...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 Target</DIV> <OL> <LI>Surging Tempest (A3)</LI> <LI>Iceshield (M2)</LI> <LI>Fusion (M1)</LI> <LI>Ice Nova (A3)</LI> <LI>Incapacitate (M1)</LI> <LI>Rending Icicles (M1)</LI> <LI>Ball of Lava (M1), Fiery Convulsions (A3) tied</LI> <LI>Firestorm (A3)</LI> <LI>Glacial Wind (A3)</LI> <LI>Irradiate (M1)</LI></OL> <DIV>2 Targets</DIV> <OL> <LI>Fusion (M1)</LI> <LI>Surging Tempest (A3)</LI> <LI>Iceshield (M2)</LI> <LI>Ice Nova (A3)</LI> <LI>Firestorm (A3)</LI> <LI>Glacial Wind (A3)</LI> <LI>Incapacitate (M1)</LI> <LI>Rending Icicles (M1)</LI> <LI>Ball of Lava (M1), Fiery Convulsions (A3) tied</LI> <LI>Electrifying Flash (M1)</LI></OL> <DIV>3 Targets</DIV> <OL> <LI>Fusion (M1)</LI> <LI>Firestorm (A3)</LI> <LI>Surging Tempest (A3)</LI> <LI>Iceshield (M2)</LI> <LI>Glacial Wind (A3)</LI> <LI>Electrifying Flash (M1)</LI> <LI>Ice Nova (A3)</LI> <LI>Incapacitate (M1)</LI> <LI>Rending Icicles (M1)</LI> <LI>Ball of Lava (M1), Fiery Convulsions (A3) tied</LI></OL> Any additional information, feedback or corrections are welcomed.

Admh

08-13-2006, 04:28 AM

i would prolly drop a forge of ro imo.. lol that thing has sick dps on any number of mobs and has a huge fire debuff heh.<div></div>

ailees

08-20-2006, 12:13 PM

>IT: catalyst prior to pull (about 45-50s prior) ; then glacial winds, forge of ro, firestorm (catalyst is about ready to use again)I tested that in lyceum 2 days ago, just to see how it can work with high level mobs.It's the best way I know to be instantly killed <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I tested it with only AMEND, no way. pally and me got killed 2 or 3 times, even with waiting 10 seconds for MT to taunt and get good aggro.Pally did not find that funny. I don't really care about dying, but dying at begining of fight for a less than 10K damage is not good (even if 15K).Then I went with a singer, and got the yellow rose deaggro. But no amend.. the GW/FoR/FS serie can be used without dying, but need to wait 10 sec. If not, it generally works, but 1/5 times, a mob of the group coming to raid kills you.I don't remember who was in the MT group, may be nogood agro buff. I wonder if I should not test the agility line ! .. I'm tempted, but a bit lazy, because I should change all my casting technic(s).<div></div>

IllusiveThoughts

08-20-2006, 11:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ailees wrote: >IT: catalyst prior to pull (about 45-50s prior) ; then glacial winds, forge of ro, firestorm (catalyst is about ready to use again) I tested that in lyceum 2 days ago, just to see how it can work with high level mobs. It's the best way I know to be instantly killed <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I tested it with only AMEND, no way. pally and me got killed 2 or 3 times, even with waiting 10 seconds for MT to taunt and get good aggro. Pally did not find that funny. I don't really care about dying, but dying at begining of fight for a less than 10K damage is not good (even if 15K). Then I went with a singer, and got the yellow rose deaggro. But no amend.. the GW/FoR/FS serie can be used without dying, but need to wait 10 sec. If not, it generally works, but 1/5 times, a mob of the group coming to raid kills you. I don't remember who was in the MT group, may be nogood agro buff. I wonder if I should not test the agility line ! .. I'm tempted, but a bit lazy, because I should change all my casting technic(s). <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> well I did say it was instant agro or the paly dies aliees <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you just confirmed what I was saying heh now imagine if a warlock could do that but with catalyst apoc, freehand sorc/catalyst rift, on a 5 mob encounter they'd do approx, 110k dmg in about oohhh 10s (and be dead) just like the wizzie who'd die from catalyst, glacial winds, catalyst free hand fusion (that tops out at about 100k dmg in in the same amount of time)Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 08-20-2006 12:21 PM

ailees

08-21-2006, 12:53 PM

>IT : ... just like the wizzie who'd die from catalyst, glacial winds, catalyst free hand fusion (that tops out at about 100k dmg in in the same amount of time)hehe just a little diference : I die before casting fusion <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> then GW only, and it is less than 20K, then not worth at all in comparison with a steady standard fight ending with fusion if possible.Next time I go to HoH I'll test catalyst with AE against the pack of 20 littles dragons, just to see how much damages I do ... before being killed by all those little bugs.<div></div>