AA setup to allow maximum DPS parse on 70x4 encounters and up?

[Prattic]

<DIV>I searched but couldn't find a definite winner for my criteria. I don't really care about my DPS in group or solo settings anymore. I pretty much spend all my time raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, is there truely a winner for DPS against yellow+ raid mobs?</DIV>

[Bong_water]

srt line wis line but dont get the last one in the wis line use those 8 ranks to max the 1% spell dmg and 4 in Int but dont listen to me i work tomuch to raid so i dont know what i'm talking about <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pratticus wrote:<BR> <DIV>I searched but couldn't find a definite winner for my criteria. I don't really care about my DPS in group or solo settings anymore. I pretty much spend all my time raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, is there truely a winner for DPS against yellow+ raid mobs?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>the reason being is that there is somewhat of a debate on the topic, between wis + agi and wis + str.</P> <P> </P>

[ailees]

<div></div>Yesterday, I was in a pickup raid. We killed some contested named in Bonemine, then went to Temple of scales to clear it.We were 2 wizards. I merged the whole raid, then as usual, I put both wizards in Excel to examine the fights.Very very interesting :looking at number of crits and numbers of shot, we were not at all on the same AA line :1/ I am in the strengh line, with max crit possible, catalyst and freehand 5 and brainstorm 8. 2/ as he was critting much less than me, but casting more, I bet he was on agility line.Results ? <b>quite similar</b>, less than 5 percent difference in the total damages. another interesting thing : as we are not in the same AA line, we were not at all using same castings. I'm at work, and can't put the right chiffers. But let's say he was using the fastest cast and AE ones ; I was using the highest DDs (using catalyst with IN or Fusion). I could have use AE more, but I was a bit afraid of using it witth a tank that I don't know <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - yes, I use fusion, but look, if you hit 3 mobs for 50K or more, even if one kills you, you still have a high DPS... and u're not obliged to start with fusion <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This reinforce my idea that <i><b>both line are more or less equivalent, and the difference is not in the AA line, but much more in how you use it</b></i> ! now in the NAMED only encounters, he was doing more damages than me, maybe around 20% more : we both had enough power to go till end, and casting fast is better than casting high because of resists : if you get 10K damages with freehand/catalyst/IN, you're loosing too much time in comparison with someone who cast as fast as he can.Conclusion : if you like to ear "waoo, that's a boooom" get my line. (and, btw, you can have lots of damages AND slack...)I think you can have more damages with the agility line<i> IF, and only IF</i>, you work very hard to cast the best spell line. <font size="4">Illusive</font> is a good, a very good, example of that line, but I am not sure any wizzard can do so well.P.S. there is another thing that you can take into account : the <u>effectivness of the castings</u>. let's say you kill a mob with 20K damages. How many damages are waisted ? I mean may be you killed with 15 and waisted 5...If you consider that point of view, I think the agility line is better. Now I'll stay with mine, because I love 25K crit too much.<div></div><p>Message Edited by ailees on <span class=date_text>07-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:01 AM</span>

[QQ-Fatman]

<DIV>Two best dps AA settings I've tried:<BR>A. Str 4-4-4-8-8, Wis 4-5-4-8: max critical passive, max base dmg, catalyst<BR>B. Agi 4-4-4-8, Wis 4-5-4-8-8: max spell haste, max base dmg, -12% cost<BR> <BR>In raids both of them do about the same dps, and use about the same mana per second.<BR>If you have a brigand and a good tank in raid, A might give you more dps because you can catalyst + fusion or ice nova when your brigand uses dispatch.<BR>If you solo, B will be better because you wont want to use catalyst when solo (-20% hp lol.) And fast casting helps you to root / stun faster.</DIV>

[Jezekie]

A should also be more prone to aggro spilling over and causing a pingpong due to the nature of higher spikes, where as B line should be more streamlined aggro wise.<div></div>

[-Immolatu]

str/wis can be nice, but it will most likely put your death rate up....i currently use  agi 4/4/4/8/8 and str 4/4/4/8... this gives me faster casting time and faster recast timers (37secs on ice nova, 2min41secs on fusion) along with alot of crit percent... this keeps me alive cuz im not landing 25-30k ice nova/fusions, but im also keeping up in dps with wizards that do use the wis line...its also nice to have an item in my secondary slot <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Bong_water wrote:srt line wis line but dont get the last one in the wis line use those 8 ranks to max the 1% spell dmg and 4 in Int but dont listen to me i work tomuch to raid so i dont know what i'm talking about <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote> If you're wasting 4 AAs into the INT line, you're wasting your AAs as a Wizard. You have an INT buff that adds 85(At M1 at the top level), and combined with the right gear choices you should easily be well over the currently hard cap of INT at 510.

[Witterqui]

<DIV>Why on all these my AA setup is best threads do i actually not see any parse data.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IM not gonna tell you the setup's tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our wizards were unhappy with the assianins and necro's doing 30% more DPS on most fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After a few weeks of analzying ACT data and seeing where the DPS holes were .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our wizard are now at the top again , usually carrying 2 on a raid both finish fights within a few K dmg of each other and are sitting at about 1300DPS , necros getting about 100 DPS more and assiains depending on shorts terms slightly more or less DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What information i will give you , </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL AA boxs increase your base DPS in someway They dont GIve you free DPS , The Correct AA set-up will only add about 25% to your DMG </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SO if you can hit 900DPS Without any AA's then your problem lies else where. if your not casting right NO ammount of AA's will help you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Witterquick wrote:</P> <P><BR>Why on all these my AA setup is best threads do i actually not see any parse data.</P> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>apparantly you missed the last one where I did just that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Witterquick wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IM not gonna tell you the setup's tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its not some giant secret, everyone already knows what the 2 best set up's for dps are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Witterquick wrote:</DIV> <DIV>Our wizards were unhappy with the assianins and necro's doing 30% more DPS on most fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P></P> <HR> <P>2 possible outcomes,</P> <P>Your wizards need better gear/spells,</P> <P>or your Wizards need better hate reduction/buffs.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think allies hit the nail on the head that the person playing the class has a bigger impact than what aa line you ultimately decide to take.<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[duuf]

QQfatman wrote: Two best dps AA settings I've tried: A. Str 4-4-4-8-8, Wis 4-5-4-8: max critical passive, max base dmg, catalyst B. Agi 4-4-4-8, Wis 4-5-4-8-8: max spell haste, max base dmg, -12% cost   In raids both of them do about the same dps, and use about the same mana per second. If you have a brigand and a good tank in raid, A might give you more dps because you can catalyst + fusion or ice nova when your brigand uses dispatch. If you solo, B will be better because you wont want to use catalyst when solo<b> (-20% hp lol.)</b> And fast casting helps you to root / stun faster. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________ For solo not sure which will give the best damage but the health hit on catalyst is easily overcome by precasting it before you engage.  My primary wiz solo  strategy using the str, wis setup.  catalyst, let my health recover (2 ticks does it) then freehand (24pct) and my adept3 nova is always over 10k up to as much as 13k then root off the stun.   A strategy for a tougher mob is cast catalyst let the counter come down to 10-12 seconds, Freehand, nova, engage melee with the tilde button catalyst, fusion.  Barring a fizzle/interrupt  a lot of solo mobs are close to toast after 10k to 13k nova and a 12k to 14k fusion (master) back to back but if not root off fusions stun. I tried the agi wis for about a week and fights seemed both longer (you can get real used to one shotting)  and more difficult so at least for me the str / wis is the way to go. Duffus lvl70wiz Duufuss lvl70 pally Everfrost <div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rtwitty wrote:<BR>QQfatman wrote:<BR>Two best dps AA settings I've tried:<BR>A. Str 4-4-4-8-8, Wis 4-5-4-8: max critical passive, max base dmg, catalyst<BR>B. Agi 4-4-4-8, Wis 4-5-4-8-8: max spell haste, max base dmg, -12% cost<BR> <BR>In raids both of them do about the same dps, and use about the same mana per second.<BR>If you have a brigand and a good tank in raid, A might give you more dps because you can catalyst + fusion or ice nova when your brigand uses dispatch.<BR>If you solo, B will be better because you wont want to use catalyst when solo<B> (-20% hp lol.)</B> And fast casting helps you to root / stun faster.<BR>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________<BR><BR>For solo not sure which will give the best damage but the health hit on catalyst is easily overcome by precasting it before you engage.  My primary wiz solo  strategy using the str, wis setup.  catalyst, let my health recover (2 ticks does it) then freehand (24pct) and my adept3 nova is always over 10k up to as much as 13k then root off the stun.   A strategy for a tougher mob is cast catalyst let the counter come down to 10-12 seconds, Freehand, nova, engage melee with the tilde button catalyst, fusion.  Barring a fizzle/interrupt  a lot of solo mobs are close to toast after 10k to 13k nova and a 12k to 14k fusion (master) back to back but if not root off fusions stun.<BR><BR>I tried the agi wis for about a week and fights seemed both longer (you can get real used to one shotting)  and more difficult so at least for me the str / wis is the way to go.<BR><BR>Duffus lvl70wiz <BR>Duufuss lvl70 pally<BR>Everfrost<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>good point.  Seems like that strat works out great for you fighting solo mobs.  As we start to get more responses like this it seems that choosing an aa path that fits "your" playstyle is more important than one that will min/max your dps.  </P> <P>For instance, my build has almost always had 8 points into ward of sages(bar one time for trying out wis + str), Its great for soloing caster named as the ward soaks up nearly all dot ticks, Not as useful on a raid as it is solo but I chose it because it suits my play style the best which is a mix of solo, group, and raid.</P>

[ailees]

Don't forget the first post is <b>about max damages in RAID 70x4</b>I spoke with the wizard I met in our pickup raid.His AA is agility, mine is strengh.We were both in temple of scale for first time.And we both could have increase more our damages : him by using fusion (but he was afraid of consequences in a PU raid... ) me by using more AEs (but I was afraid of consequences...)This is exactly where style of playing is fun. And using PARSER as well : I saw where I can increase, I'm trying now to do it automatically, even in groups (very often not usefull in group, but I'm just forcing reflex by training)<div></div>

[Silentsta]

I totally agree with the statement that its all about personal play style.  The very best way to find out your max dps on a raid is to try different setups and parse the fights for yourself.  Dont compare data to other wizards with different setups, compare it to yourself.   Use your casting sequence on different setups and stick with the one that gives you the best results.  You can even play around with what you cast and when, Ive did all of this a ton since KoS and finally found the one Im sticking with about a month ago.

[Brockaine2]

<DIV>Personally I'll be maxing out wisdom and then getting the deagro from int. Its not considered a dps heavy build but because of our raid setup I feel I can't go with str or agility like i'd prefer. Maybe once we get a troub i'll respec to agility. As it is atm I get too much agro and a dead wizard is 0 dps.</DIV>

[ailees]

<div></div>a dead wiz is 0 DPS, that's true, but it depends when you die ! if you die against a little group, at end fight after a 50K fusion, then it is worth.I have a cleric friend who is so used to my playing style than he's able to heal me against a double 4K hit ! and then he says "I knew the gnome (i'm NOT a gnome, bistird) was gonna take aggro" I don't know how he manages (I don't /g fusion because of macros not working well). Of course I also die in raids, and I don't care.Speaking of work about ACT and raids, I already showed an example of what can be done, I don't like secrets, I got some very nice ideas here from some guys, and will share mine, because that's the way I understand a board.Then you can have a look if you did not  at :http://www.galinou.fr/tmp/wizard.htmlthis work has been done when I had not much masters, and no catalyst, I have more more more damages right now, and I don't die more ! <div></div><p>Message Edited by ailees on <span class=date_text>07-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:46 PM</span>

[ksux]

My current AA setup is Str 4-4-4-8-0 and Wis 4-5-4-8-8.  What lines are people with Fitzpitzle's Misty Protector and The Arm of Mithaniel going with?  Not that I'll have either any time soon...I'm just curious.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ksuxtc wrote:<BR>My current AA setup is Str 4-4-4-8-0 and Wis 4-5-4-8-8.  What lines are people with Fitzpitzle's Misty Protector and The Arm of Mithaniel going with?  Not that I'll have either any time soon...I'm just curious.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>fitzpitzle's is equipable in the ranged slot,</P> <P>and arm of mithaniel i hear is broken atm, so not really worth giving up wisdom line to use it.</P>

[ksux]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> ksuxtc wrote:My current AA setup is Str 4-4-4-8-0 and Wis 4-5-4-8-8.  What lines are people with Fitzpitzle's Misty Protector and The Arm of Mithaniel going with?  Not that I'll have either any time soon...I'm just curious. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>fitzpitzle's is equipable in the ranged slot,</p> <p>and arm of mithaniel i hear is broken atm, so not really worth giving up wisdom line to use it.</p><hr></blockquote>I hear the same about the Arm of Mithaniel, but my hope is that by the time I actually get it, it might be fixed...yeh right.  But when it does work correctly I expect to have Fitzpitzle's in the ranged slot and the Arm of Mithaniel in the secondary slot.  The obvious choice would be to go with a different line (in my case I'd probably choose Agi).  IllusiveThoughts, you appear to be knowledgeable about macros...how feasible is it to macro an unequip/cast/re-equip for the secondary slot for pretty much every spell?</div><p>Message Edited by ksuxtc on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:02 PM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ksuxtc wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ksuxtc wrote:<BR>My current AA setup is Str 4-4-4-8-0 and Wis 4-5-4-8-8.  What lines are people with Fitzpitzle's Misty Protector and The Arm of Mithaniel going with?  Not that I'll have either any time soon...I'm just curious.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>fitzpitzle's is equipable in the ranged slot,</P> <P>and arm of mithaniel i hear is broken atm, so not really worth giving up wisdom line to use it.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I hear the same about the Arm of Mithaniel, but my hope is that by the time I actually get it, it might be fixed...yeh right.  But when it does work correctly I expect to have Fitzpitzle's in the ranged slot and the Arm of Mithaniel in the secondary slot.  The obvious choice would be to go with a different line (in my case I'd probably choose Agi).  IllusiveThoughts, you appear to be knowledgeable about macros...how feasible is it to macro an unequip/cast/re-equip for the secondary slot for pretty much every spell?<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by ksuxtc on <SPAN class=date_text>07-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>considering that I dont think its possible to have a macro equip an item from your inventory i'd say it would take more work than it would be worth.</P> <P>back when I was only at freehand sorcery of the wisdom line and had a secondary slot I had a macro to unequip the secondary for free hand sorc, then I had to have the item I wanted to equip back on a hotbar and click it 4 seconds later (usually during the refresh from ice nova) to re-equip it (since back then it took 4 s to unequip items in combat)</P> <P>I also had to make sure that without the secondary item equipped I was still at the int cap because when you unequip an item during the cast of a spell the check against how much dmg it does happens when the spell fires, not while its casting.</P> <P>even then what use would the arm be since you have to have it equipped to get that measily 5% chance to drop 1 position on the hate list when you actually fire the spell or it wont ever proc.</P>

[greerm]

<DIV>I've got a 70 wiz with 50 AAs and I thought the best DPS route would be taking str and wis for the crits and damage increase. The result was that I ended up dead a lot, or at least pulling aggro way too early in the fight, even after waiting to engage. If a paladin is MT and has amends on you, then it doesnt matter. But generally a pally is not MT. I did a respec and took all the hate gain reduction/deaggro fro the int line and  feel it has really helped my DPS. I can chain cast for an entire raid fight without getting aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that i have less of the damage tools from my other AAs, but trying to drop aggro in the middle of a fight takes 15 to 20 seconds, and thats if you live. That's generally 10-15k damage (or more) that you miss out on just because of over-nuking. And i fyou die, you get a rez with barely any power, so you either have to wait another 15 seconds for some regen, or get back in the fight and end up without power anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizzy AAs have a lot of possibilities for increased DPS, but in my opinion, its controlling your hate that gets you the highest parse in a fight.</DIV>

[Falcogen]

ksuxtc wrote:<BR>how feasible is it to macro an unequip/cast/re-equip for the secondary slot for pretty much every spell?<BR> <P>Message Edited by ksuxtc on <SPAN class=date_text>07-20-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:02 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <BR> <P>It is very possible but at max AA you lose the damage bonus Brainstorm gives you so prolly not worth it for a 500dmg proc</P>

[VajonaYo]

<DIV>I strongly disagree with Greerman.... Going down the int line is simply put a WASTE !!!....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>       Greerman u said u think your dps has been improved  by the int line....   Well heres the thing... Yes as we all know it is widely preached that a live wizy out parses a dead one..... BUT.... Using the int line is not playing your class to its full potential..... That is, if you want to own the dps parse.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The key is your group setup.....  If you don't have the right tools, (classes), in raid then your gunna die A LOT no matter what AA's u pick.. well unless u sit there spaming your cease and concusive...oh and running in to melee strike the mob with your confounding staff attack... oh and triggering concussive blast.... all that is time you could be Nuking, Spiking, Chaining, with a proper group setup....     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Now for the group setup......     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> First,  If you don't have a troubador, GET ONE.   Not only does the troub help skyrocket your dps .. he also has mana regen .. and PASSIVE THREAT DECREASE, 41% all time for everyone in his group non fighter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, HELLO PALADIN.  Also a must.   can you say amends..?  Approx 40%ish threat transfer.  Plus paladins Have Group spell procs too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> = More DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>those 2 classes in your raid group will make u unstoppable.... you can ice nova nearly on the pull.. basically as soon as the tank stops moving UNLEASH HELL !!!...    these 2 classes in your group will have you at approx 80% hate decrease PWNAGE !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as far as the other spots well they can really be interchangable.....  IMO i prefer a Fury, Shadowknight, and a Warlock to fill the last three spots....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>trust me though INT AA line DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR DPS !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lyris</DIV> <DIV>70 ~ Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Oasis ~ Rockeaters</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>VajonaYo wrote:<DIV>I strongly disagree with Greerman.... Going down the int line is simply put a WASTE !!!....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>       Greerman u said u think your dps has been improved  by the int line....   Well heres the thing... Yes as we all know it is widely preached that a live wizy out parses a dead one..... BUT.... Using the int line is not playing your class to its full potential..... That is, if you want to own the dps parse.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The key is your group setup.....  If you don't have the right tools, (classes), in raid then your gunna die A LOT no matter what AA's u pick.. well unless u sit there spaming your cease and concusive...oh and running in to melee strike the mob with your confounding staff attack... oh and triggering concussive blast.... all that is time you could be Nuking, Spiking, Chaining, with a proper group setup....     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Now for the group setup......     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> First,  If you don't have a troubador, GET ONE.   Not only does the troub help skyrocket your dps .. he also has mana regen .. and PASSIVE THREAT DECREASE, 41% all time for everyone in his group non fighter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, HELLO PALADIN.  Also a must.   can you say amends..?  Approx 40%ish threat transfer.  Plus paladins Have Group spell procs too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> = More DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>those 2 classes in your raid group will make u unstoppable.... you can ice nova nearly on the pull.. basically as soon as the tank stops moving UNLEASH HELL !!!...    these 2 classes in your group will have you at approx 80% hate decrease PWNAGE !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as far as the other spots well they can really be interchangable.....  IMO i prefer a Fury, Shadowknight, and a Warlock to fill the last three spots....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>trust me though INT AA line DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR DPS !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lyris</DIV> <DIV>70 ~ Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Oasis ~ Rockeaters</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote> I just want to say, you just made the worst DPS group in the history of this game.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VajonaYo wrote:<BR> <DIV>I strongly disagree with Greerman.... Going down the int line is simply put a WASTE !!!....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>       Greerman u said u think your dps has been improved  by the int line....   Well heres the thing... Yes as we all know it is widely preached that a live wizy out parses a dead one..... BUT.... Using the int line is not playing your class to its full potential..... That is, if you want to own the dps parse.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The key is your group setup.....  If you don't have the right tools, (classes), in raid then your gunna die A LOT no matter what AA's u pick.. well unless u sit there spaming your cease and concusive...oh and running in to melee strike the mob with your confounding staff attack... oh and triggering concussive blast.... all that is time you could be Nuking, Spiking, Chaining, with a proper group setup....     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Now for the group setup......     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> First,  If you don't have a troubador, GET ONE.   Not only does the troub help skyrocket your dps .. he also has mana regen .. and PASSIVE THREAT DECREASE, 41% all time for everyone in his group non fighter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, HELLO PALADIN.  Also a must.   can you say amends..?  Approx 40%ish threat transfer.  Plus paladins Have Group spell procs too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> = More DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>those 2 classes in your raid group will make u unstoppable.... you can ice nova nearly on the pull.. basically as soon as the tank stops moving UNLEASH HELL !!!...    these 2 classes in your group will have you at approx 80% hate decrease PWNAGE !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as far as the other spots well they can really be interchangable.....  IMO i prefer a Fury, Shadowknight, and a Warlock to fill the last three spots....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>trust me though INT AA line DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR DPS !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lyris</DIV> <DIV>70 ~ Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Oasis ~ Rockeaters</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>you do realize each aa line caters to a different play style right?  There is no right or wrong choice, especially when you can respec them depending on your guild / raid set up.</P> <P>As a wizard hate reduction directly corrolates to a straight dps increase.  Thus getting a passive 10% hate reduc (12.5% with pet) would allow a wizard without any hate reduction to do 12.5% more dps than the same wizard in the raid without it.</P> <P>For example mt has a dirge and can hold you at about 1500 dps</P> <P>wizard 1 and wizard 2 should both be able to do 1500 dps and not pull agro, </P> <P>If wizard 1 is specced for max dps he will have to throttle back his dps more to avoid pulling agro and dieing.</P> <P>if wizard 2 is specced down the int line he can do 1700 dps without pulling agro.</P> <P> </P> <P>With that raid set up wizard 2 is helping the raid more by taking the int line than wizard 1 who will die a lot.</P>

[ailees]

>Il. Th. As a wizard hate reduction directly corrolates to a straight dps increase.  Thus getting a passive 10% hate reduc (12.5% with pet) would allow a wizard without any hate reduction to do 12.5% more dps than the same wizard in the raid without it.not totally true.I see what you mean. But there is another thing that you must take into account : if you spend the hate reduction AA into strengh or agility, you will cast more (agi) or stronger (strengh). If you die after a 50K fusion crit, you still do more damages than another wizz. Let's take my example into lab's yesterday : As usual i'm in the top damagers. I chose to go into strengh and big crits. My way is a dangerous one, because I need very often to go close to mobs for Fusion. There were no singer nor pally in my group. Of course I died 10 times before the dragon. Still, I'm 2d damagers ! Another wizz (on the same AA line) made 85% my damages, and maybe died once only. Is it worth ? no one can say. It is my playstyle, that's all.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ailees wrote:<BR>>Il. Th. As a wizard hate reduction directly corrolates to a straight dps increase.  Thus getting a passive 10% hate reduc (12.5% with pet) would allow a wizard without any hate reduction to do 12.5% more dps than the same wizard in the raid without it.<BR><BR>not totally true.<BR>I see what you mean. But there is another thing that you must take into account : if you spend the hate reduction AA into strengh or agility, you will cast more (agi) or stronger (strengh). If you die after a 50K fusion crit, you still do more damages than another wizz. <BR><BR>Let's take my example into lab's yesterday : As usual i'm in the top damagers.<BR> I chose to go into strengh and big crits. My way is a dangerous one, because I need very often to go close to mobs for Fusion. There were no singer nor pally in my group. Of course I died 10 times before the dragon. Still, I'm 2d damagers ! <BR>Another wizz (on the same AA line) made 85% my damages, and maybe died once only. Is it worth ? no one can say. It is my playstyle, that's all.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I see your point ailees, the problem is you havent' really been with a raid wizard that can out dmg you, and you dont really have a problem with being booted from raid invites by taking agro from over nuking, for me however the more hate reduction I get the more dps I do.</P> <P>some raid mobs its very bad to do that as it turns on the raid and can wipe the raid because of it.  </P> <P>I was pointing out that each aa line has its place for every individual, and no one line is better than another.  </P>

[ailees]

>IT : .. you havent' really been with a raid wizard that can out dmg youhehe true ! but i worked hard for that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />>IT : you dont really have a problem with being booted from raid invites by taking agro from over nukingoh no ! my guild is great (we have DT access you know, not totally slackers) but we are friendly first. We don't look at max DPS on an army style. That's why I am with them. And if you don't feel like raiding, well , you don't go, not a problem.>IT : some raid mobs its very bad to do that as it turns on the raid and can wipe the raid because of it. Of course, I'm mad, and getting aggro, but I'm not stupid. I never overnuke when a named is able to wipe us ! we are friends, but well, i'd be in trouble if I were used to wipe raid because trying to be 1st DPSer. <p>>IT : I was pointing out that each aa line has its place for every individual, and no one line is better than another. </p>that's totally true and I agree 100%.<div></div>

[massem]

<DIV>I would go so far as saying that overnuking every once in a while is good on junk mobs. Even though I know it pisses some tanks off ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, if we don't overnuke from time to time - how are we going to learn where the limits are in the named fights that are more difficult and really matters ? :smileyhappy:. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Admh]

    lol if u really wanna be true dps.. don't bother dropping anything on the last line of wisdom. Yes-- most ppl would say that it saves them power etc. however, if you're rolling with 7k+ power and still going outta power something's wrong with your raid dps and your specific raid group setup as a whole. you could use the extra point on increasing your crit chances, your freehand and other beneficial abilities that <b><i>DO </i></b>increase dps.However, to some, this may be the recourse for not having items that regenerate their power either by flowing thought or by item procs... this isn't usually the case <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[SacDaddy420]

I'll tell you mine.   I've maxed catalyst, freehand and brainstorming.  and put the last in crit chance.   It is VERY hard to beat my numbers on the parse.  I take great pride in that.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SacDaddy wrote:<BR>I'll tell you mine.<BR>   I've maxed catalyst, freehand and brainstorming.  and put the last in crit chance.<BR>   It is VERY hard to beat my numbers on the parse.  I take great pride in that.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>so you went with </P> <P>str 4/4/4/5/8</P> <P>wis 4/8/4/8</P> <P>lets see those parses!</P>

[Prattic]

Silly question here. I'm trying to determine if Freehand stacks with Catalyst. I can't see that it does.<div></div>

[Admh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pratticus wrote:<BR>Silly question here. I'm trying to determine if Freehand stacks with Catalyst. I can't see that it does.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>oh yea it does.. how'd ya think I could hit for over 29k with Fusion and 24k with Nova. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ailees]

of course it does, that's why we very often use macros to start it !<div></div>

[Bi]

<blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote: I just want to say, you just made the worst DPS group in the history of this game.<hr></blockquote>lol i was thinking the same thing. maybe a group with 5 guardians with a warden for their awesome str and dps buffs. <font color="#000000" size="1">yes i was joking. sigh</font><div></div>

[Bi]

also can someone tip me off as to how I can max catalyst, I seem to be only able to get 1 point in it, I want more to max it!!!1oneoneoneoneoone <div></div>

[Jezekie]

<div><blockquote><hr>bieb wrote:also can someone tip me off as to how I can max catalyst, I seem to be only able to get 1 point in it, I want more to max it!!!1oneoneoneoneoone <div></div><hr></blockquote>1 "point" is already 8 points spent. It doesn't scale as you can't get any better then automatic crit on the next cast.</div>

[Bi]

seems i shouldve put   a  //sarcasm tag on that post. I thought the !!oneone1oneone wouldve been enough of a tip-off :] just my way of saying people who say 'max catalyst' are erm... well .. lacking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[SacDaddy420]

lacking what?  You have a problem with the way I formed my sentence?  You are a [Removed for Content].  And you're insult targeted at my post is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]<div></div>

[Bi]

yes I am a [Removed for Content] because you are using redundant language. Good one champ :] Not that it was particularly aimed at anyone, but really - calling me a [Removed for Content] because I  dislike reading things which are misleading and redundant is truly amusing. <div></div>

[Prattic]

Can we get back on topic please? Flame elsewhere.<div></div>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would go so far as saying that overnuking every once in a while is good on junk mobs. Even though I know it pisses some tanks off ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It wouldn't me. If you were to pull agro on me you either A) Deserved it for nuking before the DPS call or B) Got lucky with a fusion/nova crit and would either A) Be FD as soon as the mob(s) turned towards you or B) Be left for cannon fodder while I laugh at you =D. Believe me, Ilu has died many times with me tanking but it's always a good laugh. Hell, we even sacrifice him instead of a ranger for luck =D.<BR>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would go so far as saying that overnuking every once in a while is good on junk mobs. Even though I know it pisses some tanks off ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It wouldn't me. If you were to pull agro on me you either A) Deserved it for nuking before the DPS call or B) Got lucky with a fusion/nova crit and would either A) Be FD as soon as the mob(s) turned towards you or B) Be left for cannon fodder while I laugh at you =D. Believe me, Ilu has died many times with me tanking but it's always a good laugh. Hell, we even sacrifice him instead of a ranger for luck =D.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its my job I'm the death magnet.  Besides someone's got to keep you on the edge of your seat, with your trigger finger twitching on the wonderful sk FD.</P>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would go so far as saying that overnuking every once in a while is good on junk mobs. Even though I know it pisses some tanks off ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It wouldn't me. If you were to pull agro on me you either A) Deserved it for nuking before the DPS call or B) Got lucky with a fusion/nova crit and would either A) Be FD as soon as the mob(s) turned towards you or B) Be left for cannon fodder while I laugh at you =D. Believe me, Ilu has died many times with me tanking but it's always a good laugh. Hell, we even sacrifice him instead of a ranger for luck =D.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its my job I'm the death magnet.  Besides someone's got to keep you on the edge of your seat, with your trigger finger twitching on the wonderful sk FD.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My trigger finger twitches on my mouse which is always above FD right after I get done with a round of taunts before I start to DPS. -_- You're still the only DPS class I've EVER wasted rescue on too O_O. (And yes, I said WASTED guys)

[Treolis]

<DIV>My 2 cents,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In one of the top raiding guilds on Najena - the only Wizard in guild - I have to say the following AA setup does the job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR 4/4/4/8</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>WIS 4/5/4/8/8</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the most part I can get #2-5 on the list.  Obviously it depends on the encounter and group/raid setup to max raid DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just go with what fits your style of fighting!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Laters,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Logarithm</DIV> <DIV>Wizard of Ancient Vengeance</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   </DIV><p>Message Edited by Treolis on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:12 PM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Treolis wrote:<BR> <DIV>My 2 cents,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In one of the top raiding guilds on Najena - the only Wizard in guild - I have to say the following AA setup does the job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR 4/4/4/8</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>WIS 4/5/4/8/8</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the most part I can get #2-5 on the list.  Obviously it depends on the encounter and group/raid setup to max raid DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just go with what fits your style of fighting!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Laters,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Logarithm</DIV> <DIV>Wizard of Ancient Vengeance</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Treolis on <SPAN class=date_text>08-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:12 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I found taking crits to be rather random.  If you get hardly any crits during the fight wis + agi wins.</P> <P>Have you tried wisdom + agi before?</P>

[ThrashVTX]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would go so far as saying that overnuking every once in a while is good on junk mobs. Even though I know it pisses some tanks off ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It wouldn't me. If you were to pull agro on me you either A) Deserved it for nuking before the DPS call or B) Got lucky with a fusion/nova crit and would either A) Be FD as soon as the mob(s) turned towards you or B) Be left for cannon fodder while I laugh at you =D. Believe me, Ilu has died many times with me tanking but it's always a good laugh. Hell, we even sacrifice him instead of a ranger for luck =D.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its my job I'm the death magnet.  Besides someone's got to keep you on the edge of your seat, with your trigger finger twitching on the wonderful sk FD.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My trigger finger twitches on my mouse which is always above FD right after I get done with a round of taunts before I start to DPS. -_- You're still the only DPS class I've EVER wasted rescue on too O_O. (And yes, I said WASTED guys)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see how it is!  I don't rate a Rescue Naldir???  No wonder I get killed while applying my "debuffs" before the dps call!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Al</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allestair McCallister</DIV> <DIV>*NOR/BA-EQ2</DIV> <DIV>Mistmoore</DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ThrashVTX wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IllusiveThoughts wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would go so far as saying that overnuking every once in a while is good on junk mobs. Even though I know it pisses some tanks off ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It wouldn't me. If you were to pull agro on me you either A) Deserved it for nuking before the DPS call or B) Got lucky with a fusion/nova crit and would either A) Be FD as soon as the mob(s) turned towards you or B) Be left for cannon fodder while I laugh at you =D. Believe me, Ilu has died many times with me tanking but it's always a good laugh. Hell, we even sacrifice him instead of a ranger for luck =D.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its my job I'm the death magnet.  Besides someone's got to keep you on the edge of your seat, with your trigger finger twitching on the wonderful sk FD.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My trigger finger twitches on my mouse which is always above FD right after I get done with a round of taunts before I start to DPS. -_- You're still the only DPS class I've EVER wasted rescue on too O_O. (And yes, I said WASTED guys)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see how it is!  I don't rate a Rescue Naldir???  No wonder I get killed while applying my "debuffs" before the dps call!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Al</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allestair McCallister</DIV> <DIV>*NOR/BA-EQ2</DIV> <DIV>Mistmoore</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>rofl.  </P>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see how it is!  I don't rate a Rescue Naldir???  No wonder I get killed while applying my "debuffs" before the dps call!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Al</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allestair McCallister</DIV> <DIV>*NOR/BA-EQ2</DIV> <DIV>Mistmoore</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Nope, didn't you know? Conjies aren't a REAL DPS class =P</P>

[duuf]

Illu wrote: I found taking crits to be rather random.  If you get hardly any crits during the fight wis + agi wins. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________ Random yes but predictable. Some encounters will be light on crits some will be heavy. Over the course of a raid should be approximately the 15% additional crits the points invested plus the pet give you.  IMO Str and Agi are equivalent. Str gives you more average damage per spell. Agi gives you more spells to cast. However if power is a problem such as in our guild which is light on power pumps, Str wins. Duufuss, lvl 70 pally Duffus, lvl 70 wiz Everfrost <div></div>

[meedni]

<b><font color="#ff0000"><font size="4"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Sarasoon, didn't u read the most useless class for raids thread in combat discussion awhile back? Betray to a pally and u'll be ok <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></font></font></b><div></div>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Purtan wrote:<BR><B><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT size=4><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Sarasoon, didn't u read the most useless class for raids thread in combat discussion awhile back? Betray to a pally and u'll be ok <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></FONT></FONT></B><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, point that thread out to me again. -_- I think I missed the 4 pages where I stood up for my class and got flamed with nothing but irrelevant gibberish the entire time. =D<BR>