Hate/Agro issues from a Necromancer point of view

[Bizerk78]

<DIV>Friend wizzie got me readin some of the flame posts and I had to respond <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Problem</U></STRONG>: Necro's have their hate/agro split between pet and themselves and can dps more without pulling agro.  Wizzards on the other hand get ALL the agro from spells they cast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>Solution</STRONG></U>: Pally's 40% agro reduction, Troubies 40% agro reduction, Illusionists 20% agro reduction.   <STRONG>YOU NOW HAVE 100% AGRO REDUCTION!!!!</STRONG>  Start off with ice comet, fusion, ball of lava.  Outdps all the summoners and give yourself a big pat on the back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, a Wizards highest parse will always be higher than a summoners highest parse.  My current high parse since starting this game is 3300dps in Labs.  A wizzard can go fusion 3 mobs and is capable of getting 60,000dps.  How is that fair?  I want to be able to hit those numbers.....but i never will be able to, and that makes me sad in the pants <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bizerk</DIV> <DIV>70 Necro on Crushbone</DIV> <DIV>16 T7 masters</DIV> <DIV>Outdpser of all</DIV>

[Tanit]

<blockquote><hr>Bizerk78 wrote:<div>Friend wizzie got me readin some of the flame posts and I had to respond <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div><strong><u>Problem</u></strong>: Necro's have their hate/agro split between pet and themselves and can dps more without pulling agro.  Wizzards on the other hand get ALL the agro from spells they cast.</div> <div> </div> <div><u><strong>Solution</strong></u>: Pally's 40% agro reduction, Troubies 40% agro reduction, Illusionists 20% agro reduction.   <strong>YOU NOW HAVE 100% AGRO REDUCTION!!!!</strong>  Start off with ice comet, fusion, ball of lava.  Outdps all the summoners and give yourself a big pat on the back.<font color="#ffff99">Putting a pally in a mage group is a horrible waste, unless you have too many pallys and no other mages. A wizard shouldnt be so dependant on other classes though when a summoner can do the same without buffs from others.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>Also, a Wizards highest parse will always be higher than a summoners highest parse.  My current high parse since starting this game is 3300dps in Labs.  A wizzard can go fusion 3 mobs and is capable of getting 60,000dps.  How is that fair?  I want to be able to hit those numbers.....but i never will be able to, and that makes me sad in the pants <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div><font color="#ffff99">You shouldn't confuse damage with dps. If you want to see high numbers floating above mob's head you picked the wrong class. When talking about dps then you need to give a realistic example, not something that will never happen. In a normal fight against an epic a skilled necro will do a lot of dps. Especially with a buffed pet.</font><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bizerk78 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Friend wizzie got me readin some of the flame posts and I had to respond <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Problem</U></STRONG>: Necro's have their hate/agro split between pet and themselves and can dps more without pulling agro.  Wizzards on the other hand get ALL the agro from spells they cast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><STRONG>Solution</STRONG></U>: Pally's 40% agro reduction, Troubies 40% agro reduction, Illusionists 20% agro reduction.   <STRONG>YOU NOW HAVE 100% AGRO REDUCTION!!!!</STRONG>  Start off with ice comet, fusion, ball of lava.  Outdps all the summoners and give yourself a big pat on the back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, a Wizards highest parse will always be higher than a summoners highest parse.  My current high parse since starting this game is 3300dps in Labs.  A wizzard can go fusion 3 mobs and is capable of getting 60,000dps.  How is that fair?  I want to be able to hit those numbers.....but i never will be able to, and that makes me sad in the pants <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bizerk</DIV> <DIV>70 Necro on Crushbone</DIV> <DIV>16 T7 masters</DIV> <DIV>Outdpser of all</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Illusionists do not have 20% aggro reduction.  And pally's 40% aggro reduction isn't a reduction, it's a transfer, so if you do that, say bye-bye to that Paladin, unless they're tanking.  So you're down to 40%.  Also your 60,000DPS example of fusion hitting 3 mobs is a good joke.  Considering unless you have 3 brigands, all timing their dispatches on 3 different mobs, there is no way you can do 60,000 damage from 1 fusion.  Just being able to hit "high" numbers is meaningless when you can't do them very often, whereas if you can consistantly put out the dps, that's all that matters.

[QQ-Fatman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bizerk78 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Also, a Wizards highest parse will always be higher than a summoners highest parse.  My current high parse since starting this game is 3300dps in Labs.  A wizzard can go fusion 3 mobs and is capable of getting 60,000dps.  How is that fair?  I want to be able to hit those numbers.....but i never will be able to, and that makes me sad in the pants <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Even if you can do 20k dmg on 3 targets (which is almost impossible because it requires all 3 mobs to be debuffed,) it takes 5sec to cast - therefore it is 12000 spike dps, and it will go down fast unless the fight ends right when you get off fusion. And talking about lab raids.... the fights there are usually longer than 1 minute. Your undead tide can easily do more than fusion in 1 minute.<BR>

[Bizerk78]

<P>My bad, coercer, not illusionist.  And im not sure how exactly the reductions stack.  If u already have 60% agro reduction from coercer and trouby (btw, coercer dosnt have to be in grp), is that taken out before the pally's "transfer".  If so that would lead me to belive that it would still be minimal hate tranfered to paladin.  </P> <P>The 60k dps is actually possible.  It may not be quite 60k dps, but my friend wizzie with master fusion in CL on 3 mobs can come close to that with the crit spell cast first.</P> <P>And as far as not being able to do dps very often.  Necros are way more situational in dps than wizzards.  Try playin a necro in HOS where 90% of mobs ae.  Nothing like sending 8 pets out and watching them all get wiped by first AE.  </P>

[Tanit]

<blockquote><hr>Bizerk78 wrote:The 60k dps is actually possible.  It may not be quite 60k dps, but my friend wizzie with master fusion in CL on 3 mobs can come close to that with the crit spell cast first.<p><font color="#ffff66">I see you still don't understand what dps means.</font></p> <p>And as far as not being able to do dps very often.  Necros are way more situational in dps than wizzards.  Try playin a necro in HOS where 90% of mobs ae.  Nothing like sending 8 pets out and watching them all get wiped by first AE.  </p><font color="#ffff66">Necro dps is only situational when the necro is an unskilled player.</font><hr></blockquote>

[curtlewis]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bizerk78 wrote:<div>Friend wizzie got me readin some of the flame posts and I had to respond <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div><strong><u>Problem</u></strong>: Necro's have their hate/agro split between pet and themselves and can dps more without pulling agro.  Wizzards on the other hand get ALL the agro from spells they cast.</div> <div> </div> <div><u><strong>Solution</strong></u>: Pally's 40% agro reduction, Troubies 40% agro reduction, Illusionists 20% agro reduction.   <strong>YOU NOW HAVE 100% AGRO REDUCTION!!!!</strong>  Start off with ice comet, fusion, ball of lava.  Outdps all the summoners and give yourself a big pat on the back.</div> <div> </div> <div>Also, a Wizards highest parse will always be higher than a summoners highest parse.  My current high parse since starting this game is 3300dps in Labs.  A wizzard can go fusion 3 mobs and is capable of getting 60,000dps.  How is that fair?  I want to be able to hit those numbers.....but i never will be able to, and that makes me sad in the pants <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>You do know fusion has a 3 min recast, right?  And a 5m range?  And it only hits targets in a 60 degree arc in front of you?  You know how hard it is to GET three targets in range?  It is impossible to have 100% aggro reduction.  A hostile act always puts you on the hate list.  I can cast a 300pt nuke and then a 600pt deaggro.  Guess what?  The mob's still attacking me.Summoners can group with anyone and get half the aggro due to the pet split.  Why should we have to hunt down that perfect class?  And when it comes to raids, I'm never put in the same group with the pally.  Amends goes to to higher DPS, like Assassins and Summoners.  And if there's more wizards than pallies, then what?I do get in the troub group, if both troubs are on.  It's iffy if there's only one.  We don't have an illusionist in our guild.A summoner's highest parse will always be higher than a wizard's highest parse.  Look at the highest magical hits on your server.  Toss out the ones from GOAA doing 750k.  Start at abotu 50k and go down (there was a bug that allowed insanely high hits on low level players in duels).  You'll notice quite a few conjurors on the list long before you spot a wizard.  At least that's the case on my server.It is impossible to do 60,000 dps with fusion.  At least if you have a clue as to how DPS is computed.  DPS is computed from the start of teh fight to the end of the fight.  At the very best you could do, in 5 seconds, you'd hit for 60k (which btw, I've NEVER done).  That would be 12k DPS.  Your highest is 3300 dps? At level 61 in PPR one of our conjurors was doing 4400 dps....  (more than twice what I could do... probably because Summoners are a 2 man group).</div>

[Bizerk78]

<P>You do know fusion has a 3 min recast, right?  And a 5m range?  And it only hits targets in a 60 degree arc in front of you?  You know how hard it is to GET three targets in range?  </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Yes to all of the above.  I hear my friend complain about it all the time.</FONT><BR><BR>It is impossible to have 100% aggro reduction.  A hostile act always puts you on the hate list.  I can cast a 300pt nuke and then a 600pt deaggro.  Guess what?  The mob's still attacking me.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Maybe not technically 100% but with 60% deagro and 40% hate transfer, thats pretty dang close.  </FONT></P> <P><BR>Summoners can group with anyone and get half the aggro due to the pet split.  Why should we have to hunt down that perfect class?  And when it comes to raids, I'm never put in the same group with the pally.  Amends goes to to higher DPS, like Assassins and Summoners.  And if there's more wizards than pallies, then what?</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Summoners get half agro till their pet get wiped (which is ALL THE TIME).  Then they're on the ground.  As far as pally's hate transfer....that sux man, sorry your guild dosn't give em to ya.  If there are more wizzies than pallies, obviously the higher dps gets amends.  Make sure thats u <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT><BR><BR>I do get in the troub group, if both troubs are on.  It's iffy if there's only one.  We don't have an illusionist in our guild.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Yeah, troubs are bread and butter for summoners.....and thus lies half your problems.  Trobs have a couple proc buffs that add insane amount of dmg.  Since necros have typically short casting times, I would say on average we cast about 2-3 spells for every wizzard spell.  Thus I am procing 2-3x more than u wizzards.</FONT><BR><BR>A summoner's highest parse will always be higher than a wizard's highest parse.  Look at the highest magical hits on your server.  Toss out the ones from GOAA doing 750k.  Start at abotu 50k and go down (there was a bug that allowed insanely high hits on low level players in duels).  You'll notice quite a few conjurors on the list long before you spot a wizard.  At least that's the case on my server.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>The highest magical hits come from a crafted item that is thrown at enemy.  I'm talking about actually class dps on mobs.  Not talking about what can or can't be done by exploiting a bug.</FONT><BR><BR>It is impossible to do 60,000 dps with fusion.  At least if you have a clue as to how DPS is computed.  DPS is computed from the start of teh fight to the end of the fight.  At the very best you could do, in 5 seconds, you'd hit for 60k (which btw, I've NEVER done).  That would be 12k DPS.  Your highest is 3300 dps? At level 61 in PPR one of our conjurors was doing 4400 dps....  (more than twice what I could do... probably because Summoners are a 2 man group).<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Does the fight technically start when u hit the button to cast a spell or does the fight start when dmg is delivered?  If when delivered, a wizzard could go up to 3 mobs (aligned in a 60 degree cone) hit them each for 20k and then since they die, that would be the end of the parse.  Seems like u could possibly get the 60k parse is all I was saying.  I'm guessing the conj was using some type of exploit to get those numbers, but who knows, I wasnt there.<BR></FONT></P>

[Bizerk78]

<P>"Necro dps is only situational when the necro is an unskilled player."</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>You're totally right, when I'm fighting an epic mob that ae's raidwide and kills all my pets, its definately because I'm not playing my class right.   Haha, stupid noob answer.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Also I do less dps when I dont have troubs or classes that debuff.  But obviously dps wouldn't be situational there.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Oh, oh, I think it was living tombs, but sevaral mobs had almost 100% disease resistance.  Once again, I'm obviously an unskilled player and dont know how to play my class if I'm not dpsing a ton in that situation.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>That statement just showed how "green" u are, but will enlighten you.  Certain situations can be avoided but not 100% of the time.  Yes i can joust with my mage pet, yes I can choose tank/scout pet that might live past first ae.  However, mage pet does occasionally run in and die, even right after i hit peace/attack sometimes.  And if I use my low dmg tank pet, not only am i now doing subpar dps, but also all my aa's are negated when using a non-mage pet. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>IMO necros have to play with a ton more strategy than wizzards.  Hi, I'm a wizzard, I stand back and hit buttons.....oh oh, I had to manafeed someone.  Pfffft.....Necro on the other hand are constantly passing out mana hearts, backup healing (have 2 heals for around 1k each, not including the pet heals), watching for a raid wipe to FD and save everyone a long run back, rezing people during battle and trying to make top of parse list.  It's like comparing the duties of a garbage man to a doctor <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

[BALTO]

now if necros are a one man army, wizards are.....a one button fighting machine?<div></div>oohhh the life of a necro...*plays the worlds smallest violin*  hehe, to bad wizzies cant FD Muhahaha, i sure see them practicen it all the time tho.  I'd think wizards would benefit from a bruiser, SK, mystic in group also! NOW THAT shows how green all your strategies are.its all situational folx, atop of who's class is the flavor of the month.  Its how its been an always will be.but what do i know...i have no clue about all those numbers an figures your spout'n off here, I only know when I'm prepaired and luck falls my way, i can make a summoner/necro pet or wizard into a paper mache tank against epics for a short time.  Clock'n in over 120k hp's healed for the encounter.<div></div><p>Message Edited by BALTO on <span class=date_text>07-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:34 AM</span>

[Mareth]

<div><blockquote><hr>BALTO wrote:hehe, to bad wizzies cant FD Muhahaha, i sure see them practicen it all the time tho.  <div></div><p>Message Edited by BALTO on <span class="date_text">07-02-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:34 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], seen me have you?I've got the hang of laying down on the ground and having the mobs reset, it's the whole getting up afterwards that's the big problem! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But as someone said in a chat the other day, sorcerers have RD, and we use it a lot!</div>

[Tanit]

<blockquote><hr>Bizerk78 wrote:<div></div> <p>"Necro dps is only situational when the necro is an unskilled player."</p> <p><font color="#ffff00">You're totally right, when I'm fighting an epic mob that ae's raidwide and kills all my pets, its definately because I'm not playing my class right.   Haha, stupid noob answer.</font></p><hr></blockquote>haha, thanks for confirming my suspicions.<div></div>

[Bizerk78]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bizerk78 wrote:<BR> <P>"Necro dps is only situational when the necro is an unskilled player."</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>You're totally right, when I'm fighting an epic mob that ae's raidwide and kills all my pets, its definately because I'm not playing my class right.   Haha, stupid noob answer.</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>haha, thanks for confirming my suspicions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>If thats all it took....anytime <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV>

[Brockaine2]

<DIV>Lol your examples of situation dps are a joke. Your dps is situational because you donthave a troub or brig?...duh thats every caster in the game [Removed for Content]. You think disease resist is bad in t6? Ever seen a wizard try to dps on a tier5 mob...like 80% are immune to heat or cold lol.</DIV>

[Bizerk78]

<DIV>Lol your examples of situation dps are a joke. Your dps is situational because you donthave a troub or brig?...duh thats every caster in the game [Removed for Content].   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Hehe, you need to calm down before you wet your robe.  Maybe if you channel some of that energy into the form of dps you won't suk on the parses :smileysurprised:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Those responses I made were from a previous posters statment </FONT>"NECROMANCER dps is only situational if your an unskilled player"<FONT color=#ffff00>.  I wasn't even responding to your class or any other in that paragraph.  I was simply stating examples where a <U>NECROMANCER</U> (once again, like the statement said) might have lower dps.  All of which were legit examples to that statment.  Please re-read this paragraph at least 5 times so it settles in.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>You think disease resist is bad in t6? Ever seen a wizard try to dps on a tier5 mob...like 80% are immune to heat or cold lol.</DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Apparently you mentor down and make more money doing t5 than your able to t7.  Thats ok, I'll take your word for it.  I havn't been there in several months.   But I read in patch notes awhile back that they had changed several resists on old raid mobs.  Once again your off topic, but sure.</FONT></P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

just stop feeding the troll guys.

[Bong_water]

<blockquote><hr>Bizerk78 wrote:<div>Friend wizzie got me readin some of the flame posts and I had to respond <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div><strong><u>Problem</u></strong>: Necro's have their hate/agro split between pet and themselves and can dps more without pulling agro.  Wizzards on the other hand get ALL the agro from spells they cast.</div> <div> </div> <div><u><strong>Solution</strong></u>: Pally's 40% agro reduction, Troubies 40% agro reduction, Illusionists 20% agro reduction.   <strong>YOU NOW HAVE 100% AGRO REDUCTION!!!!</strong>  Start off with ice comet, fusion, ball of lava.  Outdps all the summoners and give yourself a big pat on the back.</div> <div> </div> <div>Also, a Wizards highest parse will always be higher than a summoners highest parse.  My current high parse since starting this game is 3300dps in Labs.  A wizzard can go fusion 3 mobs and is capable of getting 60,000dps.  How is that fair?  I want to be able to hit those numbers.....but i never will be able to, and that makes me sad in the pants <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div>Bizerk</div> <div>70 Necro on Crushbone</div> <div>16 T7 masters</div> <div>Outdpser of all</div><hr></blockquote>Yeah so what a wizard gets 100% of his agro.... we get the extra dps And the real solution is- Learn to controle your own agro, you can never depend on finding a group with high hate reduction. I'm sorry your not happy with your class but stop compairing apples and oranges<div></div>