nec/conj dps shouldnt be nerfed.!

[painkiller]

<DIV>i see alot of people that complain about the pet classes dps.....being a wizard myself i too complained many times they were overpowered but recently ive come to the conclusion that their dps is vital to many raids and grp situations.....im not saying they are overpowered ...however the idea that their aggro is shared between them and their pet is where it becomes unfair. i believe if their pet is doing dmg its hate should be directly linked to the mage controlling it..and not shared....this simple adjustment would make the conj or nec soley responsible for the hate they build and are on even ground with us wizzies........this ina way would be a fair nerf....also i may be mistaken but i think pet classes have alot of spells which they can cast and recieve mana back.....is this true?  if so....then their spells should cost more power to cast.....and less for the wizards..........if anyone would like to respond plz feel free i would like to see some responses to this viewpoint.                                                                                  Painskillz lvl 70 wiz  *Ethereal Legacy*</DIV>

[x82nd77]

<DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? What about Templars... I think you should go complain about templar DPS for a bit and leave summoners alone for a month, I think them templars are way overpowered with their uberdps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the record my Wizard is higher then my Necro, and I consider myself a wizard.... but even I would never call for a nerf on any class. If you want fixes, then ask for FIXES for YOUR CLASS.  Ask for more ways that wizards can handle argo... ask for more utility and tools to do so... don't ask for nerfs please, it just hurts all of us in the end. </DIV>

[Chrisbow]

<DIV>dont tell anyone the necro mage pet heals also the party member slightly </DIV>

[painkiller]

obviously some people are too ignorant to see when someone is trying to help pet classes .....im not calling for a dps nerf...like so many others have. but in response to asking for our own classes to be fixed you have a valid point...maybe a proc we could cast that puts a certain % of our hate on someone else....would be fair i believe                                                     Painskillz

[Admh]

<P>In reply to the AP.. </P> <P>ya think?! :smileyindifferent:... To those who whined about nerfing summoners.. thanks. lol I don't see any upgrades in our class by nerfing another class. It just makes things worse.:smileyindifferent:</P>

[BoraMF]

<DIV>Notice the title.... Nec/Conj dps shouldnt be nerfed!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Holliday 70 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>    The Bazaar </DIV> <DIV>  Viva Reaction!</DIV>

[Solaran_X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> painkiller75 wrote:<BR> <DIV>i see alot of people that complain about the pet classes dps.....being a wizard myself i too complained many times they were overpowered but recently ive come to the conclusion that their dps is vital to many raids and grp situations.....im not saying they are overpowered ...however the idea that their aggro is shared between them and their pet is where it becomes unfair. i believe if their pet is doing dmg its hate should be directly linked to the mage controlling it..and not shared....this simple adjustment would make the conj or nec soley responsible for the hate they build and are on even ground with us wizzies........this ina way would be a fair nerf....also i may be mistaken but i think pet classes have alot of spells which they can cast and recieve mana back.....is this true?  if so....then their spells should cost more power to cast.....and less for the wizards..........if anyone would like to respond plz feel free i would like to see some responses to this viewpoint.                                                                                  Painskillz lvl 70 wiz  *Ethereal Legacy*</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As a 70 Necromancer, let me address a few points on your list.</P> <P>1) Shared Hate: We're a pet class. It's like that for a reason - to fascilitate our soloing. Our pets need to have their own hate entry on a mob's hate list, otherwise when attempting to solo the mob would ignore the pet the entire time and come straight for us, and we'd die alot faster. But our shared hate is no fool proof - when our pet dies (which happens rather often), all of it's hate is slapped on to us and (especially in a raid) we're basically dead at that point because no tank short of a Shadowknight with a Master I Rescue and critical hit on their Master I Harm Touch will save us. Our pets are our biggest asset, and our biggest liability.</P> <P>2) Power Spells: I'm not sure about Conjurors, but I can tell you about Necromancers. We get one spell that takes our pet's Health and converts it into Power for us. And it's an unreasonably small amount of Power - I've never used it. Beyond that, we have the Lich (L50) and Archlich (L70) spells that convert our Health into Power every 6 seconds. It takes 4% of our Health and turns it into 1% Power. Right now, I have over 6,200 Power on my Necromancer self-buffed and a bit over 4,200 Health on my Necromancer. Archlich takes over 160 Health (4% of 4,200) from me every 6 seconds, and in return feeds me 62 Power (1% of 6,200). Necromancers and Conjurors also share a common spell line (al biet with different names) that lets us cast a Health-to-Power conversion item to anyone in the game, grouped/raided or not.</P> <P>3) Power Costs: For me to do a similiar amount of damage with my spells as a Wizard does, I spend a considerably larger amount of Power and a considerably longer amount of time doing said damage. </P>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Solaran_X wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>3) Power Costs: For me to do a similiar amount of damage with my spells as a Wizard does, I spend a considerably larger amount of Power and a considerably longer amount of time doing said damage. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Lol, all your other points were good but just had to laugh at that. Anyone who plays both classes will know why.

[sAs-Bartleby]

<blockquote><hr>painkiller75 schrieb:<div></div><b>obviously some people are too ignorant to see when someone is trying to help pet classes .</b>....im not calling for a dps nerf...like so many others have. but in response to asking for our own classes to be fixed you have a valid point...maybe a proc we could cast that puts a certain % of our hate on someone else....would be fair i believe                                                     Painskillz<hr></blockquote>I hope you will never try to help other classes in the future. You decide to play a wizard. So please stuck to him. If your playability is broken, complain about this. But please do not compaire your wizards with other chars. By the way, you are not a healer!!!! So please don´t call for a nerf for Healer abilitys because they are better in healing than you are.<div></div>

[Bong_water]

<blockquote><hr>painkiller75 wrote:<div>i see alot of people that complain about the pet classes dps.....being a wizard myself i too complained many times they were overpowered but recently ive come to the conclusion that their dps is vital to many raids and grp situations.....im not saying they are overpowered ...however the idea that their aggro is shared between them and their pet is where it becomes unfair. i believe if their pet is doing dmg its hate should be directly linked to the mage controlling it..and not shared....this simple adjustment would make the conj or nec soley responsible for the hate they build and are on even ground with us wizzies........this ina way would be a fair nerf....also i may be mistaken but i think pet classes have alot of spells which they can cast and recieve mana back.....is this true?  if so....then their spells should cost more power to cast.....and less for the wizards..........if anyone would like to respond plz feel free i would like to see some responses to this viewpoint.                                                                                  Painskillz lvl 70 wiz  *Ethereal Legacy*</div><hr></blockquote>umm well you didnt think tomuch about this did you? if pet agro goes right to the summoner then that summoner wont last but 2 seconds making pets worthless and then making summoners useless. and if your still geting out dps'd after lu24 then you just suck <div></div>

[Tanit]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Bong_water wrote:umm well you didnt think tomuch about this did you? if pet agro goes right to the summoner then that summoner wont last but 2 seconds making pets worthless and then making summoners useless. and if your still geting out dps'd after lu24 then you just suck <div></div><hr></blockquote>You didnt think too much about this, did you? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I hope i don't have to explain the huge benefits of having a pet soaking up half of the aggro you generate to you.Besides, any summoner with a clue didn't get hurt by this "nerf" and can do just as much dps as before.</div><p>Message Edited by Tanith_ on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 AM</span>

[Bong_water]

<blockquote><hr>Tanith_ wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Bong_water wrote:umm well you didnt think tomuch about this did you? if pet agro goes right to the summoner then that summoner wont last but 2 seconds making pets worthless and then making summoners useless. and if your still geting out dps'd after lu24 then you just suck <div></div><hr></blockquote>You didnt think too much about this, did you? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I hope i don't have to explain the huge benefits of having a pet soaking up half of the aggro you generate to you.Besides, any summoner with a clue didn't get hurt by this "nerf" and can do just as much dps as before.</div><p>Message Edited by Tanith_ on <span class="date_text">06-26-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:21 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>heres a tip .... Read <div></div>

[curtlewis]

All the summoners are whining about getting nerfed.But all the Summoners are still pumping out 1800dps on raids no problem. They nerfed one pet and beefed up the others. If they just change which pet they use, they do the same DPS as before.And their roots didn't get nerfed into the stone age, either. Sorcerors are the ones that got the shaft here (again) not Summoners.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>On the raids I've been on, we usually have a Pally toss Amends on the conjuror or warlock, along with a Coercer sending out as many hate reducers as possible (23% less hate).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A summoner or sorcerer that is hit with 40% amends and 23% reducer, is going to draw only about a third of the aggro he does normally.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That means his 1800 DPS (between himself and his pet) is only treated as 600 hate on the mage. Sure, the pally is getting upwards to 700 more hate... but he's probably only doing about 500 DPS, and pausing to do other things, like toss up Intercede or offtank (wants the hate anyways) or on rez duty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And that's just two classes (one fully dedicated hate debuff, another spending 1 conc that works across the raid). Doesn't even go into the threat reducing skills, or having a Troubadour in the group, or the various AA's that reduce aggro for non fighters in the group too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly... I've rarely seen aggro issues, unless an aggro reducer/stealer died just as the mage was spiking.</DIV>

[Solaran_X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> curtlewis wrote:<BR>All the summoners are whining about getting nerfed.<BR><BR>But all the Summoners are still pumping out 1800dps on raids no problem. They nerfed one pet and beefed up the others. If they just change which pet they use, they do the same DPS as before.<BR><BR>And their roots didn't get nerfed into the stone age, either. Sorcerors are the ones that got the shaft here (again) not Summoners.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That is an extremely ignorant remark. Did you even read what was done to Summoner pets (including our swarm pets, but those nerfs hit everyone who used a swarm pet)?</P> <P>Scout Pet: 25% reduction in auto attack DPS, 10-15% reduction in CA DPS and increased reuse timers/power cost for CAs</P> <P>Tank Pet: Reduction in DPS on it's triple-hit CA (a noticable hit, although I don't have a percentage available)</P> <P>Swarm Pets: 17.5% reduction in DPS, plus reuse timers (for Conjurors and Necromancers) increased to 1m on both spells.</P> <P>And the final pet...</P> <P>Mage Pet: Unchanged</P> <P>Sorry...but as you can see - one of our pets remained the same, and the rest were nerfed rather hard. That doesn't fit your comment of "They nerfed one pet and beefed up the others." More like they left one pet the same, and nerfed down the others.</P> <P>Before you make an ignorant post like that again, I suggest you read the patch notes and look at the whole scope of the nerf instead of just making an uneducated and generalized statement.</P>

[Tanit]

Yet those changes didnt affect the dps output of summoners much. (which is fine by me)<div></div>

[Solaran_X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanith_ wrote:<BR>Yet those changes didnt affect the dps output of summoners much. (which is fine by me)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No, our raid DPS is still where it should be - but those changes along with the changes to our already extremely limited crowd control, combined with the new super social aggro ranges, have made soloing as a Necromancer (even soloing Solo mobs) much more difficult - and I'm sure every class that solos has experienced this problem. Which is funny, because SOE wanted to lower our raid DPS and leave our solo ability roughly the same. Instead, they missed our raid DPS by and large and instead nearly crippled our solo ability.</P> <P>EDIT: Made it more clear that I was agreeing with you, and showing you exactly where the nerfs hurt us the most.</P><p>Message Edited by Solaran_X on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[Tanit]

<div></div>Ah you're talking about soloing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>Well i think all classes got hurt a bit in that area, some more than others. Since solo mobs are trivial i don't see that as a bad thing.

[Ellestil]

<P>The last time the mage community came out and cried for a nerf of another class, it ended up getting everyone nerfed and making soloing more difficult. Perhaps, we should just live and let live, or as someone else said, ask for changes of our own class instead of calling for nerfs of another. The wizard community is getting a bad rep for causing grief not only for other classes, but for the game itself, without actually getting what they want--which is higher dps and aggro reducers or maybe some more utility.</P> <P>Ellestil</P>

[Crychtonn]

<DIV>The wizards here and even the conjurors posting really do need to read the changes more clearly.  All the pets had their damage reduced and yes that does include the mage pet.  The mage pets spells did not change but the Int buff from the offensive stance was reduced by around 60.  That is and does cause a reduction in the damage from the mage pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone here posting is a caster of some sort right ??  You're all very aware of the Int cap and how your damage is effected by being under it.  Guess what, the mage pet lives by the same rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What LU24 really did was make summoners more reliant on group buffs and group setups.  The damage a mage pet does when placed in a melee group can't compare to what it does when in a caster group.  Same goes with the scout pet.  In a melee dps group with DPS/haste/Str group buff's it does very well.  In a group it receives no group buffs it's just blah.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even though I have a general dislike for wizards (they have cried nerf on everyone for so long it's just how I feel now) I try hard to be grouped with one on raids now.  The group Int buff makes up for the loss of Int from the LU4 offensive stance nerf.  Summoners now need to be aware of the group setting they are in and use the correct pet types appropriately.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <DIV>The wizards here and even the conjurors posting really do need to read the changes more clearly.  All the pets had their damage reduced and yes that does include the mage pet.  The mage pets spells did not change but the Int buff from the offensive stance was reduced by around 60.  That is and does cause a reduction in the damage from the mage pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone here posting is a caster of some sort right ??  You're all very aware of the Int cap and how your damage is effected by being under it.  Guess what, the mage pet lives by the same rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What LU24 really did was make summoners more reliant on group buffs and group setups.  The damage a mage pet does when placed in a melee group can't compare to what it does when in a caster group.  Same goes with the scout pet.  In a melee dps group with DPS/haste/Str group buff's it does very well.  In a group it receives no group buffs it's just blah.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even though I have a general dislike for wizards (they have cried nerf on everyone for so long it's just how I feel now) I try hard to be grouped with one on raids now.  The group Int buff makes up for the loss of Int from the LU4 offensive stance nerf.  Summoners now need to be aware of the group setting they are in and use the correct pet types appropriately.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>only one mage int buff will take presidence when a bunch of mages with int buffs are in a group.  So you can either get a necro for sta/int, or a coercer for int, or a wizard for str/int, or group with a fury and have the fury actually put vim on the mage pet, furys group int buffs do however stack with the mage int buffs, as well as vim stacking on the other 2.</P> <P>60 or so int is only 6-7% drop in the dmg bonus, so like I said pop a vim on the mage pet and his dps is right back where it was pre lu24.</P>

[Abowa]

I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. When it comes to direct damage, nobody and i mean nobody, can touch a wizard. When it comes to soloing named mobs that are at or higher level than you, once again wizard is the only class able to do this. When it comes to raiding you have to look at group make-up to see if you are truly being out DPS'd. There are times when my conj is in the off-tank group, for buff reasons, my DPS will drop off. In multiple mob fights lasting longer than 30 seconds then yes the conj will out DPS the wizard. In solo mob group encounters the wizard should be able to surpass the conj. I, as a conj, do not want to rule the world of the parse. It is nice to be on top, but I know that is strictly dependent on the fight, what type of encounter and who is in my group. So before you call for another nerf because you were out DPS'd in the parse, look at the situation and the group make-up.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Abowapi wrote:<BR> <P>I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. When it comes to direct damage, nobody and i mean nobody, can touch a wizard.</P> <P>When it comes to soloing named mobs that are at or higher level than you, once again wizard is the only class able to do this.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually assasin's have the highest direct damage ca(decapitate), its on a 15 min timer, but it is the highest.  the m1 does more dmg when examined with my puny 100 or so str than m1 fusion with 8% brainstorm and capped int.</P> <P>and to add to that there are plenty of classes that can solo named mobs, green to yellow.  wizards dont hold the monopoly on soloing named encounters.</P>

[Festeringrottingcorp]

<P>I love this post.</P> <P> </P> <P>Know what the funny part is? Not one person here (unless Ive missed it) has complained about illusionists doing too much damage, or having too many advantages.  Want to know why?  Because we all know they are the weakest class in this game.</P> <P>So before you start complaining about what you can and cant do, compare yourself to your friendly illusionist and be glad for what you do have.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Festeringrottingcorpse wrote:<BR> <P>I love this post.</P> <P>Know what the funny part is? Not one person here (unless Ive missed it) has complained about illusionists doing too much damage, or having too many advantages.  Want to know why?  Because we all know they are the weakest class in this game.</P> <P>So before you start complaining about what you can and cant do, compare yourself to your friendly illusionist and be glad for what you do have.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nerf the Illusionist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</P> <P>happy now? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>