Protoflame, netheros, and other mage pets(not a rant or rant disguised as a discussion)

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>Lets lay some groundwork first....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Major pets of Everquest 2</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Tellurian recruit, soldier, and veteran line....conj. tank pet.</DIV> <DIV>Igneous apprentice, adept, Magi.......conj. DPS pet</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Grim spellbinder, thulian, terror....necro. DPS pet.</DIV> <DIV>Undying adherent,  Rotting thrall....necro. tank pet.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Doppleganger.....chanter pet.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Protoflame....Wizard fire based pet</DIV> <DIV>Netheros.....Warlock pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>     Whenever you get these pets to adept III, master I level, they take on wonderous and powerful forms.  A conjuror amster I Igneous Magi is a god among us....the thing looks like a fiery, spectral dragon.  Netheros at master I(and adept I i saw) take on the form of a Netheros Lord.....a Nightblood. Wizard's protoflame looks like a fiery spectral.....life leech at adept III.  of course enchanters can charm whatever they want.  But look a it, conjurors get flaming dragons, warlocks get nightbloods, and we get a life leech??!!  Does anyone else see soemthing wrong with this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am happy with my protoflame's performance....but the appearance makes an otherwise great and unique spell go to bleh.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now numbers.  I recall someone posting a link to a site with stats for each pet at various grades(app1, adept 1, master I).  Does anyone know of that site?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Crono1321]

It's funny, every time I stroll over to the Wizard forum, you are always the one I see whining how your Wizard [Removed for Content] is small when compared to other classes.  Protoflame does the same damage as Netheros at adept3, and it explodes if it gets killed.  Please reroll as a warlock, you clearly hate being a wizard. <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>I am happy that warlocks get a nightblood, and that conjurers get a dragon(i genueflected on the thing when i first saw it).</P> <P> </P> <P>If you want to concentrate on that point of my post, then it will be you who turns this into a flame war.</P> <P> </P> <P>I want to see some data on dmg and taunt output...</P>

[Wu'Ta]

<P>CRONO I LOVE YOU MAN, I AM SICK OF SAYING THAT EVERYDAY IN EVERY THREAD!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>TO ALMOST EVERY WIZARD WHO SPENDS 90% - POSTING</P> <P>                                                                              10% - PLAYING</P> <P> </P> <P>Merlock  ~51 WIzard~<BR>Proud Officer of  *The Brotherhood* </P>

[Ghostbeard]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote: <p>I want to see some data on dmg and taunt output...</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Hmmm... is it your suspicion that in addition to the lame Adept III graphic - that it's dmg/taunt is significantly out of kilter with the other classes as well? It would certainly seem to follow - logically.  Lamer graphic = lamer stats. Do you have any data to support this yet? This is an interesting problem. I'm a programmer by profession - I don't think it would take me long to put together a parser that would compare the damage output of the pets - but - taunt might prove to be an interesting puzzle logistically. How would you go about measuring and comparing the taunt aspects of the pets? Hmmmmmm... </span><div></div>

[Ghostbeard]

<span><blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:It's funny, every time I stroll over to the Wizard forum, you are always the one I see whining how your Wizard [Removed for Content] is small when compared to other classes.  Protoflame does the same damage as Netheros at adept3, and it explodes if it gets killed.  Please reroll as a warlock, you clearly hate being a wizard. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Isn't there a bridge or something you're supposed to be lurking under? A troll convention? Something...</span><div></div>

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ghostbeard wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote: <p>I want to see some data on dmg and taunt output...</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Hmmm... is it your suspicion that in addition to the lame Adept III graphic - that it's dmg/taunt is significantly out of kilter with the other classes as well? It would certainly seem to follow - logically.  Lamer graphic = lamer stats. Do you have any data to support this yet? This is an interesting problem. I'm a programmer by profession - I don't think it would take me long to put together a parser that would compare the damage output of the pets - but - taunt might prove to be an interesting puzzle logistically. How would you go about measuring and comparing the taunt aspects of the pets? Hmmmmmm... </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I am not a troll, do not dismiss me as such.  Tar-Palantir was the one crying every day in this forum for warlocks to get nerfed.  NEWSFLASH we did not, we are now better.  If you would like to parse your pet ( as I do every single day with protoflame and netheros side-by-side), simply type Protoflame or Netheros into your parser, and see the numbers come up.  As I said in my first post, They both do in the range of 25-40dps depending on the length of the battle.  They both nuke for approximately 150-200dmg, and heal for 150-200hp when their hp is low.  They do not hold aggro well at all (simply because they take too long to get it, while only lasting 45seconds), and should only be used as supplementary DPS or for taunting an add off of you for a sustained period of time while you kill your other target.  </span><div></div>

[Ghostbeard]

<span><blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:<span><blockquote><span></span><div></div>I am not a troll, do not dismiss me as such.  Tar-Palantir was the one crying every day in this forum for warlocks to get nerfed.  NEWSFLASH we did not, we are now better.  If you would like to parse your pet ( as I do every single day with protoflame and netheros side-by-side), simply type Protoflame or Netheros into your parser, and see the numbers come up.  As I said in my first post, They both do in the range of 25-40dps depending on the length of the battle.  They both nuke for approximately 150-200dmg, and heal for 150-200hp when their hp is low.  They do not hold aggro well at all (simply because they take too long to get it, while only lasting 45seconds), and should only be used as supplementary DPS or for taunting an add off of you for a sustained period of time while you kill your other target.  </blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote> This is the wizard forum. It's where we come to cry / whine / complain / bizitch / belly ache / voice our concerns etc. We're entitled. And although I regularly read the guardian forums as a source of information - I'm smart enough to know that if I posted an obnoxious message taunting one of them - that they would collectively hold me down and tattoo "TROLL" on my forhead in big purple letters.  And I would deserve it. Disagreement over the defination of "troll" aside - You make an interesting point though, about the parsers. I was under the impression that it was much more difficult to know how much damage was being done with the protoflame pet than apparently it is. I had read a post earlier by a drooling fan-boi who - in response to someone who had voiced a concern about wizard DPS in relation to other classes - was  actually making the excuse that you can't trust that darn parser because it doesn't take into account the damage from protoflame. It would appear that you've put paid to that nonesense quite nicely. "<i>now... who you gonna believe? ME? or your LYIN' eyes!</i>" LOL... Oh yeah. -GB-</span><div></div>

[Valdar]

<P>Who cares about Protoflame?</P> <P>Not like its all that usefull...</P>

[Ghostbeard]

<span><blockquote><hr>BigWillem wrote: <p>Who cares about Protoflame?</p> <p>Not like its all that usefull...</p><hr></blockquote></span><span> I've found protoflame to be mildy useful when soloing blue group encounters. It keeps one of the mobs busy and does a small amount of damage while I'm burning down his brothers. </span> <span> It's a matter of principle really. Warlocks upgrade to Adept III and get a cool graphic. Conjurers upgrade to Adept III and get a cool graphic. Wizards upgrade to Adept III and get... the same old flaming snot blob. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say I wish the other classes pet-graphic was nerfed. But I am sort of curious as to why the wizards seems to have been "overlooked" on this spell. -GB- </span><div></div>

[zit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ccff00>Lets lay some groundwork first....</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Major pets of Everquest 2</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Tellurian recruit, soldier, and veteran line....conj. tank pet.</DIV> <DIV>Igneous apprentice, adept, Magi.......conj. DPS pet</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Grim spellbinder, thulian, terror....necro. DPS pet.</DIV> <DIV>Undying adherent,  Rotting thrall....necro. tank pet.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Doppleganger.....chanter pet.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Protoflame....Wizard fire based pet</DIV> <DIV>Netheros.....Warlock pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>     Whenever you get these pets to adept III, master I level, they take on wonderous and powerful forms.  A conjuror amster I Igneous Magi is a god among us....the thing looks like a fiery, spectral dragon.  Netheros at master I(and adept I i saw) take on the form of a Netheros Lord.....a Nightblood. Wizard's protoflame looks like a fiery spectral.....life leech at adept III.  of course enchanters can charm whatever they want.  But look a it, conjurors get flaming dragons, warlocks get nightbloods, and we get a life leech??!!  Does anyone else see soemthing wrong with this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am happy with my protoflame's performance....but the appearance makes an otherwise great and unique spell go to bleh.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now numbers.  I recall someone posting a link to a site with stats for each pet at various grades(app1, adept 1, master I).  Does anyone know of that site?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i am sorry to say, but your groundwork is not correct.</P> <P>you mixing up sorcerer dumbfire pets with real pets of summoner and illusionist.</P> <P>for a fair comparison you would also have to take summoner and illusionist dumbfire pets.<BR></P>

[Darien al'Staff]

Ok guys...W T F. PLEASE read his origional post! He's ***NOT*** complaining about his protoflame's performance.  NO WHERE does he complain about that!  HE ACTUALLY PRAISED IT.  "I am happy with my protoflame's performance....but the appearance makes an otherwise great and unique spell go to bleh." I think he wants numbers just for the sake of seeing it's improvement trakc. As far as whining?  He wants a spell that has FANTASTIC graphic potential to reach such?  Boy, that's whining hu?  Heaven forbid we should have graphically pleasing spells.  Heaven forbid we should always look for things to improve upon.  Because, of course, a protoflame that DIDN'T look like a life-leech would be ghastly and overpowered.  Oh, and Chrono?  Get back on your own boards.  I've yet to find a relevant post by you...on these or any boards.  So please, keep your guarden-whining to yourself and other guardiens.  K Thnx Bye. In regards to the parsers: parsers would accuratly determine the damage of your protoflame separate to your own dps.  So, add your dps + your protoflames...whala.  Furthermore: Wizards/Warlocks were not designed to be buff-dpses.  They were designed to be glass cannons.  IF SoE has desided to make it so that we're "Eh...in the top few for dps, but with your buffs on other classes you might be number one" I really missed the memo. <div></div>

[SalBlu]

<P>I'm actually happy with the way my Protoflame looks at Adept III.  Its small enough to see beyond it to my enemy that i'm attacking, whereas a big honking Nightblood can completely block LOS (not for casting, but for seeing) more than a big Ogre Tank.</P> <P>I'm more partial to it being small and inobtrusive looking.</P>

[Zcenicx]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>Protoflame is not a pet, it's a damage spell. It technically works like a pet but has no separate damage, nor control.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>This means that it's not parsable since the damage is from you, just like any other DoT.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>Protoflame should be compared to the illusionist Construct of Logic, not his Doppelganger. It's a dumbfire pet, not a real one.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>Protoflame and Netheros are both worthless for anything but keeping a mob busy for a second. Ring of Cold or Bony Grasp does the same thing but better. Heh, even Truss does.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>I'm the first one to agree that it looks dorky tho, but considering I'll never get an Ad3 of it, much less a Ma1, it's not interesting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>Adara Frostborn</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>L51 Wizard of Shadowhaven, Najena</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00 size=4>Co-Guild Leader, Guild Ambassador</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Zachatan]

<DIV>LOL my pet doesnt last long enough for me to care what it is... as long as it does its job... </DIV>

[Stavenh]

I also don't care that it doesn't change form, or have multiple version of it's self.Shouldn't those aspects be left to the pet classes? I really don't want to tread on thier ground of what makes them special or fun.

[Stavenh]

SONY!` Please give protoflame a cool graphic for upgrading it.Appearently this totally rips open the lie that has been played on the unsuspecting payers of this game. By not giving protoflame a cool look when upgraded, you have shown us how much you DON'T care about wizards!~Rise up, my fellow NUKERS! We shall no longer tolerate the meager table scraps we must each fight each other for when they fall un-noticed from the banquet other classes gorge at, and which we were not invited to!DEATH TO OUR OPRESSORS!UP WITH PROTOFLAME!

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Stavenham wrote:SONY!` Please give protoflame a cool graphic for upgrading it.Appearently this totally rips open the lie that has been played on the unsuspecting payers of this game. By not giving protoflame a cool look when upgraded, you have shown us how much you DON'T care about wizards!~Rise up, my fellow NUKERS! We shall no longer tolerate the meager table scraps we must each fight each other for when they fall un-noticed from the banquet other classes gorge at, and which we were not invited to!DEATH TO OUR OPRESSORS!UP WITH PROTOFLAME!<hr></blockquote>ROFL</span><div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>SONY!` Please give protoflame a cool graphic for upgrading it.<BR><BR>Appearently this totally rips open the lie that has been played on the unsuspecting payers of this game. By not giving protoflame a cool look when upgraded, you have shown us how much you DON'T care about wizards!~<BR><BR>Rise up, my fellow NUKERS! We shall no longer tolerate the meager table scraps we must each fight each other for when they fall un-noticed from the banquet other classes gorge at, and which we were not invited to!<BR><BR>DEATH TO OUR OPRESSORS!<BR><BR>UP WITH PROTOFLAME!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>/agree :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FYI, our pet is a pet, it has health and is a separate functioning entity....it just does not follow me around....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All classes get a decent graphics upgrade.......why don't we? A very simple, non-flame question.</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>SONY!` Please give protoflame a cool graphic for upgrading it.<BR><BR>Appearently this totally rips open the lie that has been played on the unsuspecting payers of this game. By not giving protoflame a cool look when upgraded, you have shown us how much you DON'T care about wizards!~<BR><BR>Rise up, my fellow NUKERS! We shall no longer tolerate the meager table scraps we must each fight each other for when they fall un-noticed from the banquet other classes gorge at, and which we were not invited to!<BR><BR>DEATH TO OUR OPRESSORS!<BR><BR>UP WITH PROTOFLAME!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>/agree :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FYI, our pet is a pet, it has health and is a separate functioning entity....it just does not follow me around....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All classes get a decent graphics upgrade.......why don't we? A very simple, non-flame question.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Seriously, this really seems like a non issue to me. Other then these threads, I never worry/care about it.

[Ghostbeard]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Stavenham wrote:SONY!` Please give protoflame a cool graphic for upgrading it.Appearently this totally rips open the lie that has been played on the unsuspecting payers of this game. By not giving protoflame a cool look when upgraded, you have shown us how much you DON'T care about wizards!~Rise up, my fellow NUKERS! We shall no longer tolerate the meager table scraps we must each fight each other for when they fall un-noticed from the banquet other classes gorge at, and which we were not invited to!DEATH TO OUR OPRESSORS!UP WITH PROTOFLAME! <hr> </blockquote> <div>/agree :smileyhappy:</div> <div> </div> <div>FYI, our pet is a pet, it has health and is a separate functioning entity....it just does not follow me around....</div> <div> </div> <div>All classes get a decent graphics upgrade.......why don't we? A very simple, non-flame question.</div><hr></blockquote> The OP has a point - which he articulated in a plane and non-whining manner. He even prefixed his statements with the caveat that he wasn't ranting or calling for any other class to be nerfed. He was just pointing our that our brother classes get a nice graphic upgrade when they've invested the rare harvest into an Adept III spell... and WE don't. Doesn't seem fair to me either. I'd like to know why. -GB- </span><div></div>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Ghostbeard wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Stavenham wrote:SONY!` Please give protoflame a cool graphic for upgrading it.Appearently this totally rips open the lie that has been played on the unsuspecting payers of this game. By not giving protoflame a cool look when upgraded, you have shown us how much you DON'T care about wizards!~Rise up, my fellow NUKERS! We shall no longer tolerate the meager table scraps we must each fight each other for when they fall un-noticed from the banquet other classes gorge at, and which we were not invited to!DEATH TO OUR OPRESSORS!UP WITH PROTOFLAME! <hr> </blockquote> <div>/agree :smileyhappy:</div> <div> </div> <div>FYI, our pet is a pet, it has health and is a separate functioning entity....it just does not follow me around....</div> <div> </div> <div>All classes get a decent graphics upgrade.......why don't we? A very simple, non-flame question.</div><hr></blockquote> The OP has a point - which he articulated in a plane and non-whining manner. He even prefixed his statements with the caveat that he wasn't ranting or calling for any other class to be nerfed. He was just pointing our that our brother classes get a nice graphic upgrade when they've invested the rare harvest into an Adept III spell... and WE don't. Doesn't seem fair to me either. I'd like to know why. -GB- </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>And I think the OP saw that I was making a funny.You know, humor, it's not just poop and fart jokes anymore.

[papabear0]

<P>__________________________________________________ ______________________________</P> <P>Tar~Palantir wrote:</P> <P> </P> <DIV> <DIV>FYI, our pet is a pet, it has health and is a separate functioning entity....it just does not follow me around....</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ______________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i disagree.  we have this "thing" people want to call a pet but in reality its a dot that has a form of a yellow blob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>separate functioning entity? no, this thing will die after your mob dies or after it's short timer is up.  entities live, this "thing" does not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we are not a pet class and shouldn't consider this "thing" one, its a dot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Sokolov]

<div></div>The mage pet is a gargoyle I thought... doesn't look like a dragon to me. (Edit: A level 50 mage is telling me the gargoyle is Adept 3 and the multi-arm pet is the master, so I don't know anymore =/  I want to see the dragon, in any case  =D) <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:34 PM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> papabear005 wrote:<BR> <P>__________________________________________________ ______________________________</P> <P>Tar~Palantir wrote:</P> <P> </P> <DIV> <DIV>FYI, our pet is a pet, it has health and is a separate functioning entity....it just does not follow me around....</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ______________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i disagree.  we have this "thing" people want to call a pet but in reality its a dot that has a form of a yellow blob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>separate functioning entity? no, this thing will die after your mob dies or after it's short timer is up.  entities live, this "thing" does not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we are not a pet class and shouldn't consider this "thing" one, its a dot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I cannot give it orders, so i stand by it being a separate entity.

[Macrr]

My adept 1 PF got owned by a 46v, not much use that i can see except mabie for solo groups of 3 or 4 with some vv or vvv mobs. Although i would like to see how the master II version stacks up with some dmg parsing.

[LordDrag]

Its occasionally useful.  Sick it on a three down arrow, will kill or almost kill it on an even con.  Also, its good for big mobs when you are worried about aggro, since the pet gets the aggro, not you.

[Zyphius]

<P>I find protoflame much more usefull post-revamp. Last night, as a lvl 49 wizzie, I was out hunting gobbies in LS for writs. Must have killed over 70 without a death (was soloing). I was not eating or drinking any the entire time. My intel, buffed - with ring, is 267.The tactics I used follows:</P> <P>RoC then PF - wait for PF to gain aggro, then cast all 3 DoTs. Typically, the fight between the mob and proto was very close; if I saw that the mob was going to defeat proto a little too soon, I would hit it with paralyze to give proto the advantage = mob dead. I did this on "most" of the fights. Sometimes proto would lose agro and the mob would be on me, those few times: BoF, Paralyse, Flamestrike = mob dead. If I had no nukes up, then Inferno (Master II) would take care of them (had to be careful and make sure no one else was within range - very dangerous and strictly situational spell).</P> <P>Personally, I would like to see Inferno (and its upgrade) tweaked. I do like the fact it isn't encounter locked, for when there are adds that need to be mowed down quickly, but when a non-aggro mob wanders into the area when it's casted, my normal group chat gets the infamous "wizzie down" message, lol. That spell has seriously burned me twice since the revamp. 1st time was in Feerrott. I was killing lizzies and hit inferno to "finish them off". Unfortunately, 3 grey, solo v dregs wandered into range... dead wizzie... The second was in PoF in DoF... I was with my normal group killing scorpians and the tank was pulling them to the safe spot, in the "passageway". We had a group of v, so I decided to finish the group off with Inferno. Hit the hot key, then, as it was finishing it's cast, it hit me that there were two gaurds right behind me. "oops"... dead wizzie... Luckily everyone else got away, without having to kill the gaurds (we were worried about faction) and, since they were guildies (most of them family) they yelled at me and got over it, lol. Personally, I do liek the PB, i.e. being able to hit all mobs in the fight, not just "one encounter", but it would be nice if it only hit targets engaged; so it wouldnt bring in non aggro "passer-by's".</P>