Ice comet weaker with levels?

[Ashfire]

<DIV>Just wondering if anyone else experienced this.  At level 50, 304 int, my ice comet was at 4917 max hit.  When I leveled 51, max hit lowered to 4878, int is still 304.  Obviously it's not a big huge difference, but doesn't it seem odd that it would actually get weaker?</DIV>

[FrostP]

<P>The only reason your spell damage will decrease will be if you are missing a buff such as a ring of inteligence or perhaps you changed an item of equipment or forgot to use your hex doll......the difference is very small it looks to me like a change of about 10-12int drop.</P> <P> </P> <P>Personaly I made level 51 last night and my spell damage is exactly the same when fully buffed and wearing all my equipment. </P> <P> </P> <P>The other possibility is food might be giving you an int bonus you where not aware of or perhaps a group member has a buff on you previously.</P>

[Ashfire]

Naw, it's not that, I've doubled checked all my buffs. At 50 fully buffed, I was 304 int.  Just dinged 51, and my int is still 304 int.  But the spell got slightly weaker.  I guess it's just me then. /sigh

[Blindrage]

You probably had a focus buff from a warlock or troub.

[adamflanagan]

<span><blockquote><hr>Blindrage wrote:You probably had a focus buff from a warlock or troub. <div></div><hr></blockquote>i though focus only effected your ability to cast while a mob is hitting you?</span><div></div>

[brow27]

yea, focus has nothing to do with the amount of damage you do. You are the second person I've seen who has stated that damage has gone down after gaining a level.  I'd suggest everyone start looking at their damage shortly before ding, and then immediately after with no changes.  If damage is decreasing, that is VERY bad. <div></div>

[Zcenicx]

<P>No change at all between 50 and 51. Did gain a point with my new elementalist ring tho.. woo! :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Wizards: Love the provisioners and alchemists! Trail mix and fudge stacks and so do INT and power regen potions! :smileytongue:</P> <P>383 INT and counting.</P>

[Cremaster1978]

<P>Yes! Me and a guildie of mine have noticed the same thing.... all my spells now do less dmag on same INT... i.e. Paralyze had a nice 1500 max dmg rate at 51.. now i'm 52 and it is less 1490-ish...</P> <P>I see this on ALL my spells <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Cremaster1978 on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:36 PM</span>

[Cremaster1978]

<DIV>umm sorry at int 326 Paralyze does now 1471 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Madoron]

<P><FONT size=2>Yes I have noticed this Crem and others.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I have bug reported it, and have double-checked and tripple-checked all my buffs/abilities/rings etc... At a standard 324 INT, Ice Comet was doing 5005 dmg at 50; now at 51, I have 4976. If I add a further 6 INT, I get back to 5005... But aside from that, I can't get it back to 5k dmg. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It would be extremely good if several others, as they level, could keep an exact measure of dmg/INT just to ensure that it is not just us experiencing this. I can see a possible reason for how it may have happened, but lets test it and feedback first before comming to any conclusions.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Madoron.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Madoron on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 AM</span>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Madoron wrote:<div></div> <p><font size="3">Yes I have noticed this Crem and others.</font></p> <p><font size="3">I have bug reported it, and have double-checked and tripple-checked all my buffs/abilities/rings etc... At a standard 324 INT, Ice Comet was doing 5005 dmg at 50; now at 51, I have 4976. If I add a further 6 INT, I get back to 5005... But aside from that, I can't get it back to 5k dmg. </font></p> <p>It would be extremely good if several others as they level could keep an exact measure of dmg/INT just to ensure that it is not just us experiencing this. I can see a possible reason for how it may have happened, but lets test it and feedback first before comming to any conclusions.</p> <p>Madoron.</p><hr></blockquote>Hmm well I know at lvl 50 your max int is 350, and at lvl 51 its 357, and when you add 6 int you get back to where you were. Im thinking that they have it as a function of your int vs max int.</span>

[Madoron]

<DIV>That is exactly what I was worried about. But as I said, I would like to see a few more numbers before I take that as my conclusion. If so this is a rather large bug that sliped by me in Beta... Then again, with so many changes to dmg on various spells, it was extremely hard to keep up with what it was supposed to be doing vrs INT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Madoron</DIV><p>Message Edited by Madoron on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 AM</span>

[Renvaren Kailst]

<DIV>I've noticed this too with my 47 wizard. My INT has been 238 since 45. At 45 Ball of Flames did 1410 max, at 46 it did 1402 max, at 47 it now does 1395 max. All my other damage spells have likewise decreased with level. I bugged it each time I levelled. I made sure when I dinged 47 that I watched the damage, and made sure that ally my buffs were the same, and that my INT was the same, they all were and the damage went down when I dinged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be precise, at 46 with 238 INT my spells did:</DIV> <DIV>Ball of Flames Adept 3: 755-1402</DIV> <DIV>Inferno Master 2: 523-972</DIV> <DIV>Flamestrike Adept1: 344-638</DIV> <DIV>Paralyze Adept 1: 723-1205</DIV> <DIV>Immolation Adept 3: 196-365DD, 74-137 DoT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at 47 with 238 INT my spells do:</DIV> <DIV>Ball of Flames Adept 3: 751-1395</DIV> <DIV>Inferno Master 2: 520-966</DIV> <DIV>Flamestrike Adept1: 342-635</DIV> <DIV>Paralyze Adept1: 719-1198</DIV> <DIV>Immolation Adept3: 195-363DD, 73-136DD</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Renvaren Kailstar on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 PM</span>

[Zachatan]

<DIV>One thing that sony has stated that as you lvl yoru spells you once used slowing become less useful against the mobs you are going up against... thus the spell change line decreases as you lvl higher... when the spell drops down a con color you willn otice thsi as well when it becomes grey .... the spell is concidered useless... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont you guys read other peoples post </DIV>

[Zyphius]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zachatan wrote:<BR> <DIV>One thing that sony has stated that as you lvl yoru spells you once used slowing become less useful against the mobs you are going up against... thus the spell change line decreases as you lvl higher... when the spell drops down a con color you willn otice thsi as well when it becomes grey .... the spell is concidered useless... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont you guys read other peoples post </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe... but that is definately no reason for damage to go DOWN. so, I have used spell A for 10 levels, got really really good at casting it, now it turns grey... whoops, i forgot how to use this spell. The smarter thing to do is make it be resisted more when it turns grey, not lower its overall capability.</DIV>

[Zachatan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zachatan wrote:<BR> <DIV>One thing that sony has stated that as you lvl yoru spells you once used slowing become less useful against the mobs you are going up against... thus the spell change line decreases as you lvl higher... when the spell drops down a con color you willn otice thsi as well when it becomes grey .... the spell is concidered useless... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont you guys read other peoples post </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe... but that is definately no reason for damage to go DOWN. so, I have used spell A for 10 levels, got really really good at casting it, now it turns grey... whoops, i forgot how to use this spell. The smarter thing to do is make it be resisted more when it turns grey, not lower its overall capability.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>As the your lvl the lvl of the mob also increases... so you hwere 50 today and now 51 now the npc 51 are more resistence against that lvl 50 spell... thus the dmg decreases to fit the max amount of dmg you would be able to do to that mob... it weird but it kinda makes since </DIV>

[Zyphius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zachatan wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> putergod wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zachatan wrote:<BR> <DIV>One thing that sony has stated that as you lvl yoru spells you once used slowing become less useful against the mobs you are going up against... thus the spell change line decreases as you lvl higher... when the spell drops down a con color you willn otice thsi as well when it becomes grey .... the spell is concidered useless... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dont you guys read other peoples post </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe... but that is definately no reason for damage to go DOWN. so, I have used spell A for 10 levels, got really really good at casting it, now it turns grey... whoops, i forgot how to use this spell. The smarter thing to do is make it be resisted more when it turns grey, not lower its overall capability.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>As the your lvl the lvl of the mob also increases... so you hwere 50 today and now 51 now the npc 51 are more resistence against that lvl 50 spell... thus the dmg decreases to fit the max amount of dmg you would be able to do to that mob... it weird but it kinda makes since </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>But they are saying the maxumin lvl of the spell's damage goes down... as when you examine it. Yes, resistances go up, so the damage that lands goes down... but the max damage the spell is capable of should NOT...</DIV>

[Daga]

<DIV>going to test this tonight.  I should ding (if I don't get tired and death cycle again...heh), and take some screenshots.  I'm going to full buff up INT and take a look at damage, as well as strip and take a look.  </DIV>

[BlazTink]

Hm...if that trend continues it could mean a lot of trouble. When Ice Comet greys out and it starts getting resisted most of the time and hitting for Marginal Damage, what are we going to do? I've looked plenty and there are no spells that are Upgrades to Ice Comet 51-60 in game atm.

[Zyphius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlazTinker wrote:<BR>Hm...if that trend continues it could mean a lot of trouble. When Ice Comet greys out and it starts getting resisted most of the time and hitting for Marginal Damage, what are we going to do? I've looked plenty and there are no spells that are Upgrades to Ice Comet 51-60 in game atm.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't think IC will grey out before the next max level increase, but it will, most likely, green or blue out... which, in this current incarnation, will make it no better than BoF (at lvl 49) when you hit 60...

[kourga]

<DIV>over the last week i've noticed that each time i level i loose min and max damage on all spells, including spells i gained the previous level. the higher the rank of the spell the more damage is lost (ie.  app1 looses about 3 max damage master1 looses about 10 or so).  increasing int approx 5-6 pts per level raises the damage back up.</DIV>

[aznctguy00]

<P>I've also noticed the same trend.</P> <P>I had about 335 int at lvl 52 and ice comet had a range up to 5k.</P> <P>After I dinged 53, it decreased to 4987 or something (with the same 335 int)</P> <P>Really........weird........</P> <DIV>:smileysad:</DIV>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>aznctguy00 wrote:<p>I've also noticed the same trend.</p> <p>I had about 335 int at lvl 52 and ice comet had a range up to 5k.</p> <p>After I dinged 53, it decreased to 4987 or something (with the same 335 int)</p> <p>Really........weird........</p> <div>:smileysad:</div><hr></blockquote>Several people have pointed out that what looks like is happening is that the INT damage bonus is being calculated as a percentage of your total possible bonus based on our INT cap. So when you go up a level, your cap increases, which means your INT as a percentage of the cap decreases - hence the decrease in damage. I agree this is very silly - it means you have to continue to improve your INT as you level is you want to maintain the same spell damage. It's effectively spell damage scaling in reverse.</span><div></div>

[Trikol]

<P>The answer is probably that the damage output is relative to level. </P> <P>I havn't had a chance to try this out myself but have any of you tried nuke some level 50 mobs with Ice Comet when you have become level 51 and compared the damage you did before leveling? My guess is that you will see that the damage has increased.</P> <P>Here is what Moorgard said about a similar issue concerning losing avoidance when leveling.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>Moorgaard wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Edyil wrote:<BR><BR> <P>What an odd system.  You have gained "experience."  You now get hit more.  Congrats!<BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you think it through, it makes sense. And we aren't the only game to do it this way, although it's more obvious because of the way we display the numbers.</DIV></DIV> <DIV>When you think it through, it makes sense. And we aren't the only game to do it this way, although it's more obvious because of the way we display the numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's say you're level 30 and have a set of gear that your Persona window says gives you 40% avoidance and 30% mitigation. This is against a level 30 no-arrow creature; your numbers will be better against a level 27 mob and worse against a level 33 mob, but you don't see those numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Three levels later, you look at your Persona window again and see that your numbers are down. Why? Because your gear is now being compared against a level 33 mob, which you already had lower numbers against and just never saw them. The Persona window is now reflecting your stats against a level 33 opponent instead of a level 30.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has your armor gotten worse? Not at all. Your numbers against a level 30 no-arrow mob are still 40% avoidance and 30% mitigation (actually a fair amount better than that, because the skills that affect your avoidance have increased while you have gained a mitigation bonus against blue cons). But again, you don't see those numbers anymore, you only see the current values against a level 33 opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is why we show mitigation as a numerical value. The mitigation inherent in the armor doesn't change, but as you level up you keep comparing that same armor against increasingly more powerful opponents.It is logical that the same armor that protected you so well against level 30 opponents would be much less potent against something that is level 40.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we never showed you percentages, you wouldn't know the difference because you'd just be comparing AC numbers that don't move. So while our display can seem confusing initially, it is ultimately quite informative.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The link to Morgaards post: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=18227#M18227" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=18227#M18227</A></P> <P>Then again, I might be all wrong and this truly is a bug.</P>

[Zyphius]

<DIV>I read that post... but I don't see how that could be related to our problem. If anything, they should hit harder as you level until they turn white. Then stay are that point, then slowly start going down as they turn blue-green-grey (but have a set point that they cant go any lower). All this is assuming that it is relative to level like MG's post on armor. I can see armor going down as you level because mobs are getting stronger, hitting harder, and more often. However, spells are a capability. Spells are based on how knowledgable and experienced I am. The better I get, the harder I should hit, not the other way around. I guess we will have to wait for an answer... if we ever get one... Y'all notice how other classes get answered straight from the devs, but we don't? </DIV>

[HairyDustBall]

This seems to point that your int cap isnt a cap at all but the amount you need to do your max: example - I have an int cap of 200 and 200 int I get the 100% int bonus, where as if I have an int cap of 400 and a 200 int I would only get 50% of the bonus. This would be in line with how all other gear related stats work, the higher the level you are the worse your gear gets until you are forced to get new.

[Nightwo|f]

I should be hitting 51 tonight so I'll test the ratio theory. I was just talking to my brother about the same thing, the INT damage bonus is based off a ratio of your current INT vs your max INT. Right now I self buff to 315 int at level 50, and I'll take some damage numbers at various numbers of INT so that I can get +7 after leveling and see if the damage is the same. <div></div>

[Nightwo|f]

Here are the numbers for Ice Comet (Master 1) at level 50: Int: MaxDamage ------------ 293: 5544 303: 5601 305: 5612 307: 5624 315: 5669 318: 5686 346: 5846 379: 5983 (350 is max, had a chanter in the group at the time so I wrote it down real quick just because) 391: 5983 And below for level 51: ------------- 300: 5552 308: 5597 310: 5608 312: 5620 314: 5631 320: 5664 <div></div>

[Zcenicx]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>LU13 introduced innate resistances for a specific level. The higher the level, the higher the resistance. This is calculated into the spell damage now instead of having to be debuffed to reach the correct spell damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Because of this, Ice Comet will do less damage vs a L54 than a L50 target. Logical, yes?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Now. You all do know that spells will only tell you (just like mitigation) what damage the spell will deal on a white con mob, yes? This means that at L50, the damage shown is only accurate vs a L50 mob. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>When you level up to L51 without raising INT, the spells will do the exact same damage as it did at L50 on a L54 mob. But - the spell description will show the effective damage on a L51 encounter instead of a L50. This will of course be lower than before since your spell level (INT) did not increase to match.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Now, to offset the resist difference you'll have to increase your cast level, in us INT casters case by increasing our intelligence.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>By this explanation, if your max damage is 5000 points of damage on an even mob at L50 with 350 INT - it will also be 5000 points on a white con at L60 - IF you have 420 INT. On a L50 encounter when you're int-capped L60, IC will do a lot more than 5000 damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Also by this explanation, you will do the exact same damage on a L55 mob at 50 as at 60, if your INT never increases.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>You guys understand?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Adara Frostborn</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Portable Fireworks Factory</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00>Co-Guild Leader, Guild Ambassador</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffff00><A href="http://shadowhaven.guildportal.com/" target=_blank>Shadowhaven, Najena</A></FONT></DIV>