PDA

View Full Version : Lovin' it! (thoughts on the change from a 50 wizard, as well as some tactics - LONG read)


brow27
09-14-2005, 07:47 PM
<div></div>So I managed to get in game yesterday afternoon, and watched as I received a ton of new spells, which was pretty cool.  My UI (Fetish Nightfall) was partially messed up, so I ended up just disabling it for the time being. The first thing I did was to choose all the new racial traits, master strikes, master IIs, etc.  I don't recall exactly what all I chose for the lowest level, but I did choose Ball of Fire M2, Chilling Wind M2 (because even though I have an Adept III of Icy Wind, that M2 will come in handy if I mentor), and Flamestrike M2.  I ended up choosing Flamestrike because it is our fastest recast damage ability, and I had all the others at Adept 1/3 or better, as well as it's a while before Flamestrike gets upgraded. The next thing I did was redo all my hotkeys.  I wiped everything that was there before, and started from scratch.  I have to say, the sort feature of the knowledge book is interesting, and kinda handy, though not perfect.  The new icon for Arcane Augur (our HO starter) has changed completely, and was throwing me off for a while.  I actually told my guild it was the worst thing about the change hehe. Once I had finished looking over all the spells and got my hotkeys ready, I decided to do a little killing to see how it went.  I must say, everything went pretty smoothly.  It definitely was different having to pay attention to roots again (like before RoC), but that wasn't all that bad.  It seemed to me like blue mobs had more hitpoints, but I think that was because I used to just open with Immolation and do close to 1000 damage.  After a bit of practice I could solo no-arrow yellows and blue ^s with ease.  One of the most important things I think after the revamp is this: PAY ATTENTION!  So many of us became sloppy and careless after using RoC, and now you actually have to play with some skill again as before level 41.6 before. Now I'll hit the negatives first, because so many people here seem to love latching on to those: Linked timers:  Obviously most things have been separated into separate spell lines now, and if you cast something in a specific line, the timers are linked for all other spells of that line.  Definitely a downside, but not problematic. DoTs:  It was quite nice to be able to stack Icy Coil and Piercing Icicles before this, but the above change prevents this.  Also there is no big initial damage and the dot and debuff are lower.  Still useful though, as it has a short cast time, and longer duration than recast time. I think it's great for groups, not quite so great for soloing. Mana transfers:  Obviously a lot of people are unhappy about this.  We lost our line that transfers a large chunk to someone and stuns us.  Our line that stuns us and gives power has been changed to something of a dot that still stuns us but transfers power every second instead of all at once.  You can end the stun/power conversion early if there is trouble, which is nice.  Our self health/mana (vital flow line) does have much reduced power. Debuffs: Icy Wind no longer carries a debuff (not a big deal considering the damage it does now), and the Icicle line does less of a debuff.  Now since our spells actually hit for what they say WITHOUT debuffing, this isn't all that big of a deal. Immolation: Sadly this does WAY less damage than it used to, but hurray for the short cast/recast timers! Buffs:  Our group buffing ability has been pretty severely curtailed.  The only group buffs we have now are the Tyrant line (str and int, no more resistance) and Augmentation line (+power and some resists).  The personally buffs are interesting, I'll go into those in a bit. Adds:  Adds have always been dangerous, I'd say they are more so now.  If you get an add, don't try and finish off your current mob before you touch the add, you'll likely die (unless its green).  Attempt crowd control, and if that doesn't work, break combat and run like Forrest. Overall: Avoidance is lower, mit is lower, no more parry.  As mobs hit for less than they used to this isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.  Oh, almost forgot this, I seem to get a lot of spells resisted, even Adept IIIs.  It's more than before, but not devastating by any means.  Ok that ends it for the bad in my opinion, hope I didn't forget anything.  Now on to the positive stuff! I now have a good bit more health and power than I used to.  I didn't even choose the options to increase max power pool, I hit up the in-combat power regen. Damage:  I haven't parsed it out exactly, but it seems like an increase overall in DPS.  Let's go into specific spells (hope I don't forget any like I did on my hotkey bars, lol). Spells: Enfeeblement (stifle line): Fantastic!  This is an instant cast now, and stifles for I think 9 seconds.  The icon has changed, and I moved it, so I keep forgetting to use it every fight, but if the mob happens to get all the way to you, it's a life saver. Paralyze (stun line):  This has changed greatly from what it was before, and I love it!  It used to have a 1-second cast (very nice!), 6 second stun (also very nice), and 3 minute recast (HORRIBLE).  Now it is 2-second cast (not bad), 3.5 second stun (not as good, but still not bad), and a 30 second recast (excellent!).  It used to do no damage, now, at only Adept 1, it does up to 1,200 damage.  This is amazingly sweet. Heat Convulsions (dot w/ chance to stilfe):  I was very sad this morning when I realized I forgot to put it on my hotkey bar last night!  It now casts much faster than before, and does more DoT damage.  It still has a stifle component, but it doesn't list the how or the duration, just 'chance' to stifle.  Before it was a 5% chance to stifle anytime the mob was struck with melee damage, making it VERY useful against big mobs when in a group.  I'm guessing it will be just as useful now. Ball of Flames ("Ball" line):  This has changed a fair amount.  It now has a 3-sec cast timer instead of 2, and a 9-second recast timer instead of 6.  This is about a 50% increase in time to cast, but it now does about 50% more damage than it did before (maybe more) so I'd say it's pretty balanced.  I'm blessed with a Master 1 of this, and I've hit mobs for over 1,700 (maybe 1,800) damage. Flamestrike (quick cast DD line): This is actually a useful spell line now, and I took Flamestrike as Master 2.  We are talking a 2 sec cast, 4 second recast on this spell.  This is now our shortest recast spell, and probably them most-often used spell I have.  At Master 2 and Int in the mid 200s it does at least 500 damage.  I can't recall of the top of my head what the max damage was. Immolation (hit + dot line):  This used to be a unique spell, that did HUGE damage over the course of a few seconds.  It had a very slow cast time and very long recast time, I used to use it for pulling.  Now it does far worse damage, but has a 2 sec cast and a 6 sec recast.  A decent and still often-used spell. Ice Flame (bloodline chronicles spell): This spell is really similar to how it was before.  I think it does just a tiny bit less damage, but snares for a bit more.  It shares a recast timer with another of the main spells, I don't recall which one.  Still very useful! Ice Comet: Wow!  This has a minimum damage potential about 400 or so points lower than before, but the upper damage potential is MUCH higher, a little under 5,000 I think at my mid-200s Int.  This is a great spell to start a fight, or finish a fight.  Most of the time my hits are in the 3500+ range.  Also, don't forget the stun effect, VERY handy! Inferno (AE heat damage line): Use with caution!!!!!  This spell is NON-ENCOUNTER-LINKED.  This means that everything in its radius will be damaged.  You could have 80 mobs around you, and if they are in range, they will ALL get hit.  Use it wisely. That said, this spell is probably ten times better than it used to be.  It did, what, ~150 damage, took *5 SECONDS* to cast, and had a horrible recast as well.  Now this is our fastest AE spell, at only 2 sec cast time.  It also does over 600 damage per mob!  I haven't compared recast timers, but I'm pretty sure its the same or shorter on that.  The combo of short cast time and high damage makes this formerly rarely-used spell into an often-used spell. Icy Wind (high damage AE "dot"):  Elemental debuff aside, this spell RULES!  Slow cast time? Yes.  INCREDIBLY high damage? YES YES YES!  When a spell does 400+ damage 4 times within 9 seconds to the entire encounter (max of 5) you have GOT to be lovin it.  Screw the debuff, I like the damage! Shocking Flash (med damage magic AE "dot"):  After a reasonable 3-sec cast time, this spell smacks out damage in the mid-upper 100 range 5 times.  It has a recast of only 9 seconds, so anytime you are fighting a group of mobs, it's quite handy.  Also, it's magic damage, so if your targets are fire/ice resistant, its good for that as well.  Overall damage is usually >600 per mob.  Much better than before. Truss (Single target root line):  With a 2-sec cast time, a 10-sec recast, and a *50* second duration, this spell is definitely extremely useful.  It no longer re-roots the target, but has a very nice snare.  I've heard that lower spells in this line, such as Frozen Manacles, work just as well at a lower power cost.  I tried out FM today and it seemed to work just as well, if not better (have a master of FM). Ring of Cold (AE root line):  Obviously this is no longer unbreakable, but that is the ONLY downside to this spell from before.  The 2-sec cast time instead of 4 is WONDERFUL.  On top of that you have the minimal 10 sec recast time, and 50 second duration.  There is also a snare for when this breaks.  I can honestly see winning a fight against a group solely between this and Icy Wind (tactics aren't that hard to figure out, use the "k" word). Mail of Frost: This spell isn't much different from before.  Very nice, but the slow recast timer makes it a rarely-used type of thing. Frostshield (damage shield line): I LOVE the new version of this spell.  Before it was a 10% chance to do something like 150, now it is 100% chance to hit for 400+ damage 3 times within 20 seconds.  You'll want to cast this at the beginning of EVERY fight.  If your root breaks, this could be a lifesaver. Fiery Surge (dot on heat spell damage line): This line used to be power transfers to others with a stun to you.  It has completely changed now.  What it does now is every time you hit a mob with a heat spell, this spell puts a small dot on the mob that does 60+ damage.  This happens EACH time you hit the mob with a heat spell.  It lasts for 30 seconds with a 90 sec recast.  Another good spell to cast at the beginning of a fight. Icebound gift (extra damage on cold spell damage line): This line used to be a HP/resist buff.  Not anymore.  This spell, when cast on your group, will cause the mob to take extra damage (around 150) any time it's hit by a non-heat, non-physical damage spell.  When soloing its great to cast this at the start of fight, and hit the mob with Icicles, Ice Flame, and Ice Comet, which will net you a bunch of extra damage.   I'm sure there are a few spells here that I've missed, my brain is starting to go numb.  On to my tactics (soloing): Before you even start a fight, I would recommend casting Fiery Surge (or Icebound Gift, or both) and Frostshield on yourself.  This will ensure that you do extra damage without even having to try.  Btw, I will put in parentheses below the cast/recast of a spell. To start the fight I usually root the mob with FM or Truss.  Cast Icicles for the debuff.  Hit the HO starter (I think it's still called Arcane Augur) and follow it up with Ball of Flames (3/9). Finish off your HO with Flamestrike(2/4). Cast Immolation (2/6) followed by Flamestrike (2/4) again.  By this time Arcane Augur and Ball of Flames are back up, and you can follow the process over and over if you want.  This is the basics of the strategy, and it really works quite well.  Each rotation of the four spells will net you around 3000 damage in a matter of about 11 seconds. Obviously depending on what happens with your root, variations will apply.  Depending on the distance to the mob, I recommend casting Paralyze (2/30) which will do a LOT of damage and stun the mob long enough to easily re-root, or get in that last big spell to finish it off.  You can ALMOST (shy about 1 sec) get a full cast of Ice Comet in during the stun time.  If the mob is quite close to you, or is a caster, and you don't have time to re-root or stun before it gets to you, stifle it (enfeeblement at my level).  In the case the mob gets to you they are doing pretty low damage, and you can usually re-root.  If it is still decently early in the fight, they will take a TON of damage from your Frostshield. Ice Comet comes in very handy, and you can drop it just about anytime you feel like, though I would suggest re-rooting right before you do it, just so you have a lesser chance of being interrupted during its long cast time. On something of a side note, I decided to run through Harclaves last night. I figured it would be a fairly easy place to figure out the new spells, since the buff makes you near-unstoppable (unless you're an idiot).  Harclaves is AMAZING post revamp.  I had over 10k hit points, and over 17k power.  Drop RoC on a group, hit it with Icy Wind, Shocking Flash, and Inferno (if nothing else is too close).  The root will probably break during this time, but its easy to reapply due to the short recast and cast times.  Also, now that we get 5 skill points per level in crushing and piercing, harclaves is a GREAT place to make up that skill difference, because you are hasted.  Just drag a ^^ to a safe spot and put it on autoattack.  Sit back and watch your attack skill go up. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So needless to say, I am VERY pleased with the combat changes.  Feel free to comment, praise, bash, flame, or otherwise critique my info.  Peace.<div></div><p>Message Edited by brow27 on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 AM</span>

Zachatan
09-14-2005, 08:37 PM
<DIV>when i finally finished reading all you ahd to say... iw as to tired to speak...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But /agree</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish they bring back Dscrye </DIV>

Lady Uaelr
09-14-2005, 08:55 PM
<DIV>Great post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inferno (AE heat damage line): Use with caution!!!!!  This spell is NON-ENCOUNTER-LINKED.  This means that everything in its radius will be damaged.  You could have 80 mobs around you, and if they are in range, they will ALL get hit.  Use it wisely. That said, this spell is probably ten times better than it used to be.  It did, what, ~150 damage, took *5 SECONDS* to cast, and had a horrible recast as well.  Now this is our fastest AE spell, at only 2 sec cast time.  It also does over 600 damage per mob!  I haven't compared recast timers, but I'm pretty sure its the same or shorter on that.  The combo of short cast time and high damage makes this formerly rarely-used spell into an often-used spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/agree</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I found out to late when my group wiped to 5- 7 level 54 ashen disciples while we were focused on harpies lev 55^^^.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They were so angry. I felt so bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Zachatan
09-14-2005, 08:56 PM
<DIV>haha yea... i use pyre right now... was like cool... wait no freakin aye... lol...  /dies </DIV><p>Message Edited by Zachatan on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 AM</span>

brow27
09-14-2005, 09:08 PM
lol sorry I was so long-winded.  I just wanted to address as much stuff as I could before my brain turned to mush hehe. <div></div>

Zachatan
09-14-2005, 09:20 PM
Dont be sorry... its post like these i look forward to reading... i could spend all night reading all the flame post this is the kind i look forward to reading

trysta
09-15-2005, 03:30 AM
Everyone seems to be forgetting about Protoflame... That gimped ball of gimpliness is now an -awesome- tool for soloing. Instead of pulling with a root and taking the chance that it breaks with the first nuke, I pull with Protoflame. Let the mob beat on it until the Protoflame is at about 15%, THEN root it, mob will probably have the Protoflame dead by now which means more damage to it, paralyze, ice comet. Mob's dead.<p>Message Edited by trystaad on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:30 PM</span>

Kablammo1961
09-15-2005, 04:09 AM
<DIV>The following is quoted from a post I made on my guild board....it is a more wordy and less information packed commentary as  the previous and OP.</DIV> <DIV>QUOTE</DIV> <DIV>Baffled, pleased...but waiting for the Nerf bat</DIV> <DIV>Okay Wizards made out strangely but (IMHO) well. My Root sucks completely now, no better than tether. Multiple mobs (judging by all the mutliple orc encounters I was soloing last night) almost always break on the first spellcast of even minimum damage.</DIV> <DIV>Con and expected outcome have radically changed, if it is yellow or orange, its a very dicey outcome, and high likelihood of running or death. But even and lower very doable. (Before, anything I could keep rooted I could kill, but if ANYTHING higher than grey started hitting me it was over, runaway.</DIV> <DIV>That being said....I have found some solo maneuvers that work amazingly well, even for multiple mobs. (these are blue and lower)</DIV> <DIV>Protoflame....taunts and aggros whole encounter, Ice comet (wastes one) but encounter stays fixed on proto, rapid nuke #2 down, (easy), and root/burn whats left. My survival to Melee on blues is amazing. Before patch, greens would kill me in three to four hits, interrupting and stunning the snot out of me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Protoflame is my best tool in multiple enemy kills. If I cast my improved AoE's, they break root, and draw aggro off the proto, so they have become useless for soloing.</DIV> <DIV>Now I can toe to toe with three and even four, and get em rooted or even burn one down before I drop below half health. This was a weird and unexpected turn of events. I thought with removal of parry we would get taken apart by mobs. My durability to withstand melee attacks is incredibly improved.</DIV> <DIV>What this does is make me a Soloing machine compared to before. I would not have thought it possible, but there it is. Of course, even con and up arrow mobs of even one arrow, I can only single. With good food and drink, I was keeping the Orc Highway cleared all by myself with very little effort.</DIV> <DIV>Aggro, tell me about it. Pulling aggro a serious problem now in groups. My nukes MUCH more powerful than before (feels like at least twice as much relative DPS) but then I am running with fully buffed 270+INT too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Happy? well yes, I have to admit. So I know based on other peoples comments that whistling sound has to be an incoming Nerf bat. I dont have much info on <insert Warlock name here> response to changes, but I desperately hope he is better off as well. I like most mature wizards wanted improvement, but did not want to see Warlocks or any class for that matter nerfed.</DIV> <DIV>UNQUOTE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you OP and previous poster, I had missed that Icebound Gift was now a debuff, and the Frostshield angle is priceless. Can't wait to get off work and get back at them Orcs hehe</DIV>

TheKraken
09-15-2005, 06:43 PM
As to the issue of getting agro in groups, your new best friend should be Frostshield.  I quickly realized that the damage done by Frostsheild was being attributed to whomever you have the spell placed on, and not to yourself.  By placing the spell on the MT I was constantly giving him about 1200 damage points more agro.  This spell lets you throw out safe damage, essentially.  This should be the one spell you make sure you cast everytime it comes up, it is now as much an agro management spell as it is a damage one.  Try this when you are in the middle of your next fight, cast Frostsheild before and after you cast Ice comet.  I found I could use Comet in the middle of combat more often, rather than simply waiting toward the end and maybe missing getting to use it.

brow27
09-15-2005, 06:44 PM
My bad for missing protoflame, I keep forgetting about it since it was so useless before. As for icebound gift, it's not a debuff per se, but it does add separate additional damage when in use, so it's a good thing.  I managed to take down a yellow ^^ today.  It was a dicey fight, but thank god for our powerful stun and Ice Comet. <div></div>

maxpower8
09-16-2005, 07:24 PM
<DIV>I am also happy with the changes to to Wizards.  The First thing I noticed was the increase in Ice Comets damage. I was grouping yesterday with a scout that was debuffing cold by 4k he said, but i landed an ice comet adept 3 for 6,111 and it kinda shocked me, but then i hit a few other times in the upper 5k range, this is very nice but great care needs to be taken so as not to draw agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also love the proto flame change, when parsing the battles by the time it died it was doing about 1200 damage at apprentice 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Darien al'Staff
09-16-2005, 07:26 PM
It's very easy to get wrapped up in the exciting new things about wizards..especialyl the big numbers.  I like the changes overall too...but hwen you watch your damage be easily outstripped by conjurers, necros, rangers, and assassins....<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

Daga
09-16-2005, 07:53 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darien al'Staff wrote:<BR>It's very easy to get wrapped up in the exciting new things about wizards..especialyl the big numbers.  I like the changes overall too...but hwen you watch your damage be easily outstripped by conjurers, necros, rangers, and assassins....<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm not denying you are seeing this, but I simply am not in the groups I'm in.

Darien al'Staff
09-16-2005, 07:54 PM
are you grouping with the above classes?  Specifically CONJ and RANGER? <div></div>

Daga
09-16-2005, 07:56 PM
Have not grouped with a conjuror, no.  Ranger?  All the time.  Have not seen him out dps me, unless he draws agro, and my normal group also uses tactics taht reserve opening up on a mob immediately.  but I cannot speak to a conjuror.

Darien al'Staff
09-16-2005, 08:24 PM
Thank you for your input.  Please, if you can, get those parses.  Include equiptment of both you and him, spells and combat art levels, buffs active, mobs fought, etc.  <div></div>

brow27
09-16-2005, 11:24 PM
Parses don't always tell the whole story.  I've seen plenty of cases where parsers didn't show all the damage that you have done.  Only way to be really sure is to actually go through the logs yourself, and add it all up.  There was someone who posted in another thread within the last few days who showed what his actual DPS was vs. what the parser was showing.  I've talked to a few rangers about their DPS, and they've said the only way it gets super high is when there are multi-mob groups and they have one of their special abilities up, its not something they can consistently dish out when pulling single high heroic mobs.  The same can be said about Warlocks.  Their AE dps is great, single target not quite so much.  A fellow warlock in my guild is quite disappointed in his char post revamp.  I've grouped with a necro and a ranger.  Though the fights weren't parsed, they didn't seem to be doing any more damage than I was, and maybe less. It seems to me that you're kinda obsessed with straight DPS and how we compare in that to everyone else Darien.  What's more important is how is your solo ability?  Are you useful in a group?  Is it fun to play the way you are now?  Obsessing over DPS comparisons is a waste of time. <div></div>

Daga
09-16-2005, 11:38 PM
<DIV>That's where I'm coming from as well.  I could seriously open up a can of whoopass if I need to on an opponent and send my DPS parser through the roof,  Open with highest spell, then next highest, then next, etc.  Problem is, I will be kicked immediately after we wipe time and again.  It's about pacing.  Not straight out DPS.  Plus, if you take a parse from a single ^^^ or a group of ^^ or ^^^, the dps ratings will switch around.  In a single target, I can usually be top of the DPS, with highest landing nuke.  In multiple mob situations, I can be a lot lower.  But it is all situational.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To say we need to be top in all cases, I just don't see.  I can solo.  I have group value.  I can do high DPS.  And I crumple like a cup when I'm hit.  These are what I'm looking for.  Being below a Warlock in a peeing contest, it just smells of class envy.  I can try and get logs, but since I don't run the parser, I'll see what I can do.  I can take screenshots, but hate the delay it takes in making it.  either way I see no problems in our DPS like it was pre-DoF.  I can finally affect epic mobs, and do damage.  So that problem was the biggy that made me hate playing.</DIV>

maxpower8
09-17-2005, 01:29 AM
<DIV>I completely agree with Dagath.  I am not worried about being the top dps in my group, I know i can be the top if i want to be, and i will die.  You just need to get a feel for how you particular group fights and how fast you can go. Then you can get a good rhythm and cut those mobs down one after another.  I think that they did a good job with the combat changes i think that right now every DPS class can go all out and be the highest dps in the group, so now that everyone can do it. everyone needs to know how to pace themselves so as not to put the group in danger.  </DIV>

Zachatan
09-17-2005, 01:42 AM
<DIV>Top or bottom... i dont mind not doing to much dmg... cause i am notcing alot of wizards /dead</DIV> <DIV>Alot of bombing wizards need to get there act straight cause there making the rest of us look bad... but now</DIV> <DIV>/lfg tag on i get groups quick never pull agro and if i do i use our hate reducor/absorb spell and bam no more agro....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i love my hit stick <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i beat things on there head and its seems to proc a ton then it ever have </DIV>