Warlocks CRY foul.

[Fl]

I find this whole situation somewhat amusing. For the long time we as wizards voiced our concerns over the severe discrepency between wizard and warlock DPS, warlocks having the upper hand in most situations (especially during raiding). Many wizards "complained" and got upset on this forum. Now, over on the other side while all this went on, many (not all) warlocks balked at us, called us whiners, and malcontempts. After the combat revamps started hitting the forums it became obvious that wizards were being given a significant boost in their capabilities, while warlocks were being toned down. So in a sense, wizards got what the asked for (except the warlock nerf thing, I for one never asked for that.) When parses started comin out and warlocks saw their throne as DPS kings being threatened, what happens? Of course the warlock community cries out and begins the same type of "complaining" that wizards had been doing for months. Now I wonder, who's the pot here and who's the kettle? Please as one concerned wizard after seeing these new changes brought about as of 9/11/05:Allign these classes and make their DPS equivalent. If Warlocks are the AOE specialists, and their AOEs are XX% more powerful that wizards, and wizards and the DD specialists, for all that is fair make wizards DD XX% more powerful that warlocks!! Other factors need to be taken care of here such as utility differences and % of the different types of engagements obviously, and I'm not a dev and never have been so I will be the first to admit I am somewhat ignorent, but PLEASE fix this. I left EQ2 about 4 months ago because I was so disappointed with my wizard. Seeing warlocks consistently perform better than me when they were 10 levels lower then me made me sick. I came back after seeing the new changes with hope and satisfaction, now, unfortunately I am in the same boat as I was before. I love my class and won't re-roll a warlock, but I would like to be just as powerful as our cousins, otherwise I always feel like the broken caster. Somebody call a waaambulance on me. This might all change once it goes live, I hope for the better. If not, then..... o well.Arca42 Wizard of Oggok

[Ga]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Gaul on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:31 PM</span>

[Ga]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Gaul on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:30 PM</span>

[Magiocracy]

Sigh. I think we're going to see a lot of these threads over the next week, so allow me to knock this on the head early on. At the beginning of beta Wizards got a huge boost comparable to live, while Warlocks were arguably the most broken class in beta. The result ? Warlock's were [Removed for Content] and set about trying to get the class fixed - we politely asked, pointed out the clear discrepancies and broken spells, and, when necessary, we shouted a bit. The result is that largely Warlocks are in a better state at the end of beta than they were at the beginning. As for Wizards, well it seems to me that the Wizard class were mostly happy with the stuff at the beginning of beta and took a largely 'hope SOE don't notice us approach', and over the last 2 weeks, which is where the majority of the big chances took place it did seem to me at least that the amount of Wizard's posting was far less than the amount of Warlocks posting. For example, when Surging Tempest was changed from a nuke to a DoT there was barely a word on the beta forums. Now maybe that was because Wizards were happy with the change, or maybe Wizards were feedbacking ingame instead, I don't know. The one thing I've learnt from this beta is that you can't take your eye off SOE, not even for a day without running the risk of some drastic change being slipped in without you noticing, and the sooner you can take issue with the change, the better chance there is of getting it fixed/reversed. Let me say this once more for emphasis - most of the changes to Wizards over the course of beta were the result of general systemwide changes (The Great INT Nerf,  the 'rebalancing ' of DoTs and most recently the wider damage variance) not Wizard specific nerfs. It's much to easy just to sit there and whine that Warlocks are responsible for the state of Wizards - but as long as you continue to blame the wrong people things are never going to get any better. Warlocks were in general far too busy with trying to get their own class fixed to be much bothered with the state of Wizards to be honest. If every person who's tempted to post a 'Warlocks winged so Wizards got nerfed' post actually instead sent feedback and perhaps a pm of whatever outlining exactly what they think is wrong with the Wizard class then you might get some results. <div></div>

[Ga]

<P>Apologies for the double or triple post.</P> <P> </P> <DIV>Your post has some good points, but then veers wildly into labelling us as whiners and complainers. To the good points I wholeheartedly agree, I want Wizards to be the equal of Warlocks for so many reasons. The combat changes may actually deliver a parity of sorts, and who is to say it won't be tweaked further soon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to the whiner accusations...for a long time I couldn't post thanks to some of the board mechanics, but I read the forums and I constantly saw Wizard complaints about the disparity. Many were justified, others critical, and some Wizards descended into virulent class hate on an unprecedented scale. Warlocks on the whole tolerated it because we weren't broken. We were happy and what was wrong with us enjoying the situation. It was horribley unbalanced, the game is better for it's correction but it was still fun.</DIV> <DIV>Now the Combat Changes at first, as so many have posted, simpley reversed this position and some dedicated Warlocks on the beta fought our corner and thankfully redressed some of our concerns.Our damage was increased and certain balance concerns adressed. I found it rich though that our community was being accused of whining by certain Wizards, with certain posters calling us hypocrites for adopting tactics we had apparently found disdainful. In my opinion, we simply adopted tactics that had been proved to work. I'm glad we did, as our position has improved immensely since the changes were revealed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All we have done is press for improvements for our class in relation to the Wizard class. We want parity with Wizards, we would love parity with Wizards, but we are going to fight our own corner and press SOE for our improvements and we shall continue to do unashamedly. Any imbalance is not our fault, but SOE's.</DIV>

[Fl]

<hr>It's much to easy just to sit there and whine that Warlocks are responsible for the state of Wizards - but as long as you continue to blame the wrong people things are never going to get any better. Warlocks were in general far too busy with trying to get their own class fixed to be much bothered with the state of Wizards to be honest. If every person who's tempted to post a 'Warlocks winged so Wizards got nerfed' post actually instead sent feedback and perhaps a pm of whatever outlining exactly what they think is wrong with the Wizard class then you might get some results.<div></div><hr>If you read my post I never actually made the comment that warlocks were responsible. I was mearly pointing out that when wizards were unhappy with the state of things we voiced up, and many warlocks frowned upon us for doing so. However when things appeared rough for them, they responded in a very similar fashion. I was just pointing out the hipocracy in the whole situation, not pointing blame for any current act of the devs.Arca

[Fl]

<div>All we have done is press for improvements for our class in relation to the Wizard class. We want parity with Wizards, we would love parity with Wizards, but we are going to fight our own corner and press SOE for our improvements and we shall continue to do unashamedly. Any imbalance is not our fault, but SOE's.</div><hr>I hope this is brought to frutation. Equality would be nice. *crosses fingers*Arca

[Alfgand]

<HR> <DIV>If you read my post I never actually made the comment that warlocks were responsible. I was mearly pointing out that when wizards were unhappy with the state of things we voiced up, and many warlocks frowned upon us for doing so. However when things appeared rough for them, they responded in a very similar fashion. I was just pointing out the hipocracy in the whole situation, not pointing blame for any current act of the devs.<BR><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes there were a bunch of Warlocks that laughed, frowned, complained about our so called "whining" but there were also those who supported fixing Wizards without nerfing Warlocks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both classes are Sorcerers. We are brothers & Sisters. We should now, as the intelligent Warlocks who supported us, now, in turn support our kin the Warlocks. We should ask for fixing Warlocks without nerfing Wizards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those who laugh or harrass Warlocks because the shoe is on the other foot now are simply brainless fools. We need to stand together and sure both Sorcerer classes are the best at DPS since both classes give up more than any others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alfgand Stormraven lvl 48  Wizard EQ2</DIV> <DIV>Sage Alfgand Stormraven lvl 66 Wizard EQ1</DIV> <DIV>114 levels of EQ  Wizardry</DIV><p>Message Edited by Alfgand on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:03 AM</span>

[Ga]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alfgand wrote:<BR> <HR> <DIV>If you read my post I never actually made the comment that warlocks were responsible. I was mearly pointing out that when wizards were unhappy with the state of things we voiced up, and many warlocks frowned upon us for doing so. However when things appeared rough for them, they responded in a very similar fashion. I was just pointing out the hipocracy in the whole situation, not pointing blame for any current act of the devs.<BR><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes there were a bunch of Warlocks that laughed, frowned, complained about our so called "whining" but there were also those who supported fixing Wizards without nerfing Warlocks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both classes are Sorcerers. We are brothers & Sisters. We should now, as the intelligent Warlocks who supported us, now, in turn support our kin the Warlocks. We should ask for fixing Warlocks without nerfing Wizards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those who laugh or harrass Warlocks because the shoe is on the other foot now are simply brainless fools. We need to stand together and sure both Sorcerer classes are the best at DPS since both classes give up more than any others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alfgand Stormraven lvl 48  Wizard EQ2</DIV> <DIV>Sage Alfgand Stormraven lvl 66 Wizard EQ1</DIV> <DIV>114 levels of EQ  Wizardry</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Alfgand on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:03 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually Warlocks seem more or less fixed, unless you are vehemently opposed to our change to AoE specialists, which I find intriguing but a lot won't. <BR>

[The_D]

<DIV>At least we do not have it a bad as illusionists. SoE slights us constantly, but they hate the illusionists.</DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Warlocks were NOT broken in beta.....you were all just SO JADED from months of "uberness" that when SOE tried to spoon-feed you mortality, you screamed foul and became even worse cry-babies then wizards.</P> <P> </P> <P>I hope another 100 of these sort of threads pop up.</P>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote:<p>Warlocks were NOT broken in beta.....you were all just SO JADED from months of "uberness" that when SOE tried to spoon-feed you mortality, you screamed foul and became even worse cry-babies then wizards.</p> <p>I hope another 100 of these sort of threads pop up.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>TP, don't make yourself look more of a fool than you already do. Since you were not in beta you have no idea what state they were in one way or the other. Please don't embarass the Wizard community further by continuing to post uninformed drivel like this.</span><div></div>

[Sotha]

<DIV>In all honesty you'll find that almost all of the wizard posters that shouted and screamed about the problems with wizard have all but left, or turned to warlocks, or maybe other classes. All we have left is those who like myself, spent more time reading and agreeing with the posts rather than posting. Ive made posts on the beta forums before, its simply impossible for a wizard thread to make more than 2 pages, thats after mulitple posts by same users.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The wizard community is all but gone, only a few of us are left and we do try to make our issues heard. If the hundereds of wizard posters were unable to get changes or even responses out of devs, what can a few stragglers possibly achieve? Its basicly a take what you get feeling over here now, weve given up.</DIV>

[brow27]

Dude, just because a ton of wizards don't post on the forums doesn't mean there aren't tons playing the game.  Most people I know don't even read the forums at all. <div></div>

[Nerga]

<DIV>I dont want to start a flame war so I will just say this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AOE classes will always have more DPS,its not nesscerily good.Since its cost more power,hard to control agro,can be hard on solo situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be honest summoners will hand any warlock butt if they have enuogh linked mobs.Our AOE are maxed at 5mobs while thier is limitless (not sure if in DoF too).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason that AOE class will have more DPS is simple.An AOE dmg cant be 100dmg per traget cause its ridicoules and the only way that Wizards and Warlocks will be equal on DPS.AOE are always dobled by number of mobs ,but there must be a usefullness min cap to dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most Warlocks really dont like being AOE class ,you guys are now top DD and no more resist problem.I fail to see why there is any reason to have major complaints here.</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Some warlocks have indicated that wizards are only 10% above warlocks in direct damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While warlocks are 50%-100% above wizards in direct damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does that make sense. Then, it seems that wizards power costs are extremely high still and even more than warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do a search for all thread under khabalis he has good info throughout these boards.</DIV>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Lady Uaelrea wrote:<div>Some warlocks have indicated that wizards are only 10% above warlocks in direct damage.</div> <div> </div> <div>While warlocks are 50%-100% above wizards in direct damage.</div> <div> </div> <div>Does that make sense. Then, it seems that wizards power costs are extremely high still and even more than warlocks.</div> <div> </div> <div>Do a search for all thread under khabalis he has good info throughout these boards.</div><hr></blockquote>Do be fair only ONE Warlock came up with that figure (chronolord I tink).My impression is that it's quite a bit higher, but I have no hard numbers to back that up yet. In any case we should all find out for ourselves anytime now.....<span>:smileyhappy:</span></span><div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Sorry about that..</DIV>

[Nerga]

<DIV>You can check a discussion between me and Magio on the warlock forums.</DIV> <DIV>We talk about how Warlocks have to throw EVERYTHING we got on single target to get good DPS,including our some of our stuns insted of saving them for emergency.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that Wizards easily out dmg us on DD by 30-%70% ,but the DPS figure alone isnt the only factor but the fact that you guys have a much easier time getting it.And less chances for your root to break while doing so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets just wait until tommorow morning after we all have 10hours of midnight grind to post our true thuoghts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>