Resists on Beta

[Nitefl]

<DIV>So I decided to test out how ice immune these now 'old' raid mobs are. I zoned into Echoes of Time. Ran up, nuked Zalak with Ice comet ( a previously Ice immune mob ) and got a 'resisted' message. I was in awe (normally, when a mob was magic immune, NO message was displayed. If I got a resist, that meant it was resisted which is possible for any magic type, not that he was immune). So I tried again to be sure. This time I got a message. "Your Ice Comet hits King Zalak but fails to do any damage." Yay. So now it's possible to be resisted to immune mobs and we get an immune message. But still they're immune..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I went to MotM...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both nameds were Ice immune still as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not bothering to try the Arch Lich and the other 80% of raid mobs that are ice immune.</DIV>

[OneBadAli]

<P>Yes, immunes are wizards biggest enemy, and the reason their is so much disparity between warlock and wizard dps (would still favor warlocks if most raid mobs werent immune to cold, but the dps difference wouldnt be as HUGE as it is now).</P> <P>I often wonder if any dev EVER played a raiding wizard in current live environment. Im pretty sure they didnt, its just stupid how many raid mobs are immune to cold, takes the fun outta playing a wizard when raiding.</P> <P>I really hope that devs acknowledge this before dof goes live, but i already know they wont. They dont really care otherwise they wouldnt of waited almost a year do address something that is SOOOOOOOOO EASILY FIXED.</P> <P>Its garbage...</P> <p>Message Edited by OneBadAlien on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:56 AM</span>

[Noctide]

<DIV>I would have to agree that no dev plays a raiding wizard.  The immune/high resist on cold/heat has been beat to death and posted about for over 6 months now with no response or fix whatsoever, so dont hold your breath on them fixing any of the old content. And as for the new content being in a desert setting, and the two dragons apparently heat and cold based, I am already poised for dissapointment.  The lack of concern of SOE to the mutlitude of posts about end game disparity on DPS issues between wiz/war on raids and the immune/resist issue is just appauling.  Its a shame that the wizard class doesnt get to find out how poor the class is compared to warlocks until after level 40 due to these issues unless they read these boards. </DIV>

[BlazTink]

It's just one disappointment after the other for Wizards, with our Power pumps nerfed, and mob resists still so biased against us, what could we possibly bring to a raid??? [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] IS SOE THINKING!!!????

[curtlewis]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had big fire and magic based nukes as well, like we did in EQ1, but our spell line is unbalance. Where's our fire based AOE?We have one big ice nuke. No big fire nuke, no big magic nuke. The closest fire nuke I have does 1/5th the damage Ice Comet does. Sure, it casts faster, but it's less efficient on mana and I'm sorry, in the long run, it does less damage.Give us a full set of tools and let us learn which spells to use on which mobs, just like it was in eq1. Good wizards learned that certain spells were a waste of mana on given mobs and other spells were the good choice.And don't even THINK about giving us those mana hogging LURES. Just fix the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] resists so we can LAND a nuke. Or eliminate the class entirely.

[MilkToa]

So you're telling me they went through this entire revamp without fixing the biggest single problem effecting raiding Wizards?

[stepha72]

<P>Please say it isn't so.  Please say my ice comet is not completely useless in raids.  Please say my fire spells will actually do more than 100-200 pts of damage.  Please tell me we didn't loose our mana feeds to get nothing to make us useful in raids!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>Please say that we didn't wait through this entire revamp to have the one major complaint not even looked at.  Please, Please say it isn't so!!</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by stepha72 on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 PM</span>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div>NPCs no longer mitigate magical damage at all (other than outright resists), so the only mobs you should have problems with now are ones that are actually immune to the relevant damage type. Just got this clarification on the beta boards: <font color="#cc0000"> NPCs no longer mitigate damage, but they still use the specific types to resist spells. Before if an NPC had a level-equivalent fire resist of 30%, it would resist fire spells 30% (before any mods) and then reduce fire damage by 30% as well.</font><font color="#cc0000"> </font> <font color="#cc0000"> </font><font color="#cc0000"> The number remains important for resist chance even if they no longer mitigate.</font><font color="#cc0000"> </font> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:27 PM</span>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>So I decided to test out how ice immune these now 'old' raid mobs are. I zoned into Echoes of Time. Ran up, nuked Zalak with Ice comet ( a previously Ice immune mob ) and got a 'resisted' message. I was in awe (normally, when a mob was magic immune, NO message was displayed. If I got a resist, that meant it was resisted which is possible for any magic type, not that he was immune). So I tried again to be sure. This time I got a message. "Your Ice Comet hits King Zalak but fails to do any damage." Yay. So now it's possible to be resisted to immune mobs and we get an immune message. But still they're immune..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I went to MotM...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both nameds were Ice immune still as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not bothering to try the Arch Lich and the other 80% of raid mobs that are ice immune.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Can someone try these raid mobs out again?</P> <P>Question: so these mobs will always have a 30% chance to resist fire and ice that is pretty high isn't it. I wonder if it the same for poison and disease based spells.</P> <P>Also, if the mob resists ice - isn't our best nuke ice based?    We have no other large nukes.....please clarify.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <P>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:13 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:15 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 PM</span>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Lady Uaelrea wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Niteflyx wrote: <div>So I decided to test out how ice immune these now 'old' raid mobs are. I zoned into Echoes of Time. Ran up, nuked Zalak with Ice comet ( a previously Ice immune mob ) and got a 'resisted' message. I was in awe (normally, when a mob was magic immune, NO message was displayed. If I got a resist, that meant it was resisted which is possible for any magic type, not that he was immune). So I tried again to be sure. This time I got a message. "Your Ice Comet hits King Zalak but fails to do any damage." Yay. So now it's possible to be resisted to immune mobs and we get an immune message. But still they're immune..</div> <div> </div> <div>So I went to MotM...</div> <div> </div> <div>Both nameds were Ice immune still as well.</div> <div> </div> <div>I'm not bothering to try the Arch Lich and the other 80% of raid mobs that are ice immune.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I thought Khabalis said that the resists were removed?</p> <p>This is much worse...I was hoping that worse case scenario we would be 2nd best dps and at least our nukes would take effect. If this is so now we have minimal mana pumping abilties, we can not provide group buffs either.</p> <p>Is there anything good about this class at this point?</p> <hr></blockquote>Mob damage resistances ARE removed...but immunes are still there, as is the chance to get an outright resist. We finally got an exact dev response today on this, here it is : </span><font color="#cc0000"> NPCs no longer mitigate damage, but they still use the specific types to resist spells. Before if an NPC had a level-equivalent fire resist of 30%, it would resist fire spells 30% (before any mods) and then reduce fire damage by 30% as well.</font><font color="#cc0000"> </font> <font color="#cc0000"> </font><font color="#cc0000"> The number remains important for resist chance even if they no longer mitigate.</font> <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magiocracy wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lady Uaelrea wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>So I decided to test out how ice immune these now 'old' raid mobs are. I zoned into Echoes of Time. Ran up, nuked Zalak with Ice comet ( a previously Ice immune mob ) and got a 'resisted' message. I was in awe (normally, when a mob was magic immune, NO message was displayed. If I got a resist, that meant it was resisted which is possible for any magic type, not that he was immune). So I tried again to be sure. This time I got a message. "Your Ice Comet hits King Zalak but fails to do any damage." Yay. So now it's possible to be resisted to immune mobs and we get an immune message. But still they're immune..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I went to MotM...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both nameds were Ice immune still as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not bothering to try the Arch Lich and the other 80% of raid mobs that are ice immune.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I thought Khabalis said that the resists were removed?</P> <P>This is much worse...I was hoping that worse case scenario we would be 2nd best dps and at least our nukes would take effect. If this is so now we have minimal mana pumping abilties, we can not provide group buffs either.</P> <P>Is there anything good about this class at this point?<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Mob damage resistances ARE removed...but immunes are still there, as is the chance to get an outright resist.<BR><BR>We finally got an exact dev response today on this, here it is :<BR><BR></SPAN><FONT color=#cc0000>NPCs no longer mitigate damage, but they still use the specific types to resist spells. Before if an NPC had a level-equivalent fire resist of 30%, it would resist fire spells 30% (before any mods) and then reduce fire damage by 30% as well.</FONT><FONT color=#cc0000><BR></FONT><FONT color=#cc0000><BR></FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>The number remains important for resist chance even if they no longer mitigate.</FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So give me an example of what this means...I am sorry for being dense.</P> <P>I can't tell if this is good or bad anymore.<BR></P>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div>Previously if you nuked a mob with a spell that does 1,000 fire damage say, and the mob has 50% fire resist. 1. The system checks if the spell is outright resisted - this check is still there and is based on the resist of the mob, the quality of the spell and the casting skill of the player. 2. The damage done to the mob is then reduced by the appropriate amount based on their resistance to the damage type. So under the old system you'd do 500 damage with the spell, but with the new system once you're not outright resisted the resistance of the mob does not affect the damage you do, so you'd always do 1,000 damage. So essentially the system is now 'all or nothing', either you will be resisted outright or your spell will hit for damage within it's specified range. Hope that helps. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:33 PM</span>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magiocracy wrote:<BR> Previously if you nuked a mob with a spell that does 1,000 fire damage say, and the mob has 50% fire resist.<BR><BR>1. The system checks if the spell is outright resisted - this check is still there and is based on the resist of the mob, the quality of the spell and the casting skill of the player.<BR><BR>2. The damage done to the mob is then reduced by the appropriate amount based on their resistance to the damage type. So under the old system you'd do 500 damage with the spell, but with the new system once you're not outright resisted the resistance of the mob does not affect the damage you do, so you'd always do 1,000 damage.<BR><BR>So essentially the system is now 'all or nothing', either you will be resisted outright or your spell will hit for damage within it's specified range.<BR><BR>Hope that helps.<BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:33 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thank you.....you are always so informative- I wish you worked at SOE to fix this place up..LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, it seems that now the next issue would be are there still as many mobs that are resistant to ice and fire and hoe many will outright resist our spells......if so, wizards are back at square one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At this point it is better to just see what they say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards always had that issue that their spells would get resisted and not do any damage - this change could swing either way. If only 20% of the mobs are reistant - GREAT. If 80% are resistant - :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wonder if this is something that is set or if it something that changes periodically.</DIV>

[Magiocracy]

Exactly - you no longer will have the problem of spells hitting for tiny amounts of damage, however you will still have the problems of immunes and a potentially high outright resist rate. Immunes you can't do anything about, but you'll want a Troubador and/or a Warlock along with you to raise casting skills to help reduce outright resists. <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<P>I would imagine that if a mob has an outright resist to let's say fire - nothing is going to help. The only thing I can hope for is that the mob is not resistant to ice or magic.</P> <P>I don't think wizards have a main fire or magic nuke or aoe...can someone confirm this.</P> <P>Someone would have to go and one shot all of the raid mobs to see what happens.</P> <P>Thanks.</P>

[Sotha]

<DIV>Id hate to be the one to bring up wizards vs warlocks but the reason the dps on raid mobs is so far apart is because there are much fewer mobs resistant to disease and posion when compared to the amount resistant to cold and heat. </DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sothars wrote:<BR> <DIV>Id hate to be the one to bring up wizards vs warlocks but the reason the dps on raid mobs is so far apart is because there are much fewer mobs resistant to disease and posion when compared to the amount resistant to cold and heat.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That has been the issue in the past and the main issue for all of these ridiculous wiz vs war posts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope the test wizards check into it more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would be a nightmare to know that after everything - our fire/ice spells now will do no damage on some mobs vs the miniscule amount we experience in live.</DIV>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Lady Uaelrea wrote:<p>I would imagine that if a mob has an outright resist to let's say fire - nothing is going to help. The only thing I can hope for is that the mob is not resistant to ice or magic.</p> <p>I don't think wizards have a main fire or magic nuke or aoe...can someone confirm this.</p> <p>Someone would have to go and one shot all of the raid mobs to see what happens.</p> <p>Thanks.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you're confusing 'immune' and 'outright resist'. Immune is exactly that, immune - nothing you or anyone else does will help. Outright resists are a chance that the spell won't land at all on a non-immune mob. As I understand it - if a mob has 50% fire resist and you cast a fire spell at it, then it has a base 50% chance to resist outright your spell. That chance is modified by the quality of the spell (for example Adept3 reduces resists by 40% I think) and by your casting skill (no idea how exactly that's calculated).</span><div></div>

[Kalda]

So have the testers advised the devs of this? If so, why hasnt it been fixed in the "revamp" patch. I really dont want more people quitting the game, getting sparse in places already. <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magiocracy wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lady Uaelrea wrote:<BR> <P>I would imagine that if a mob has an outright resist to let's say fire - nothing is going to help. The only thing I can hope for is that the mob is not resistant to ice or magic.</P> <P>I don't think wizards have a main fire or magic nuke or aoe...can someone confirm this.</P> <P>Someone would have to go and one shot all of the raid mobs to see what happens.</P> <P>Thanks.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think you're confusing 'immune' and 'outright resist'.<BR><BR>Immune is exactly that, immune - nothing you or anyone else does will help.<BR><BR>Outright resists are a chance that the spell won't land at all on a non-immune mob. As I understand it - if a mob has 50% fire resist and you cast a fire spell at it, then it has a base 50% chance to resist outright your spell. That chance is modified by the quality of the spell (for example Adept3 reduces resists by 40% I think) and by your casting skill (no idea how exactly that's calculated).<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>typo...sorry</P> <P> </P> <P>I meant it would be a nightmare for there to be a high perecentage of fire/ice immune mobs.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magiocracy wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lady Uaelrea wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>So I decided to test out how ice immune these now 'old' raid mobs are. I zoned into Echoes of Time. Ran up, nuked Zalak with Ice comet ( a previously Ice immune mob ) and got a 'resisted' message. I was in awe (normally, when a mob was magic immune, NO message was displayed. If I got a resist, that meant it was resisted which is possible for any magic type, not that he was immune). So I tried again to be sure. This time I got a message. "Your Ice Comet hits King Zalak but fails to do any damage." Yay. So now it's possible to be resisted to immune mobs and we get an immune message. But still they're immune..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I went to MotM...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both nameds were Ice immune still as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not bothering to try the Arch Lich and the other 80% of raid mobs that are ice immune.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I thought Khabalis said that the resists were removed?</P> <P>This is much worse...I was hoping that worse case scenario we would be 2nd best dps and at least our nukes would take effect. If this is so now we have minimal mana pumping abilties, we can not provide group buffs either.</P> <P>Is there anything good about this class at this point?<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Mob damage resistances ARE removed...but immunes are still there, as is the chance to get an outright resist.<BR><BR>We finally got an exact dev response today on this, here it is :<BR><BR></SPAN><FONT color=#cc0000>NPCs no longer mitigate damage, but they still use the specific types to resist spells. Before if an NPC had a level-equivalent fire resist of 30%, it would resist fire spells 30% (before any mods) and then reduce fire damage by 30% as well.</FONT><FONT color=#cc0000><BR></FONT><FONT color=#cc0000><BR></FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>The number remains important for resist chance even if they no longer mitigate.</FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>As long as there aren't lots of 'immune' mobs this is good news and will definitely help all casters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nitefl]

<DIV>This is true, Khabalis described it well. A 50% mitigation mob would resist half and mitigate the other half. Using the 1000 point nuke example, in the old system it would:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hit for 500 (50% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 500 (50% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 500 (50% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 500 (50% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8 nukes = total of 2000 points of damage (Resisting 50% of the nukes, and mitigating 50% of the daamge)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in the new system..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 1000 (0% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 1000 (0% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 1000 (0% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hit for 1000 (0% mitigation)</DIV> <DIV>Resist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8 nukes = total of 4000 points of damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the new system does keep the immunities (all melee have their immunities too, but they can still do most of their damage) then I hope we can do close to our potential now that for example all of our fire nukes land while ice is immune. It makes me sick in SOTL when mobs are ice immune and my hardest hitting fire nuke hits for 200 damage when it even decides to hit.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>

[stepha72]

<P>Now I think I am confused.  So if a mob is immune to say ice spells my ice comet will never hit?</P> <P>Now this resist thing.  If it has a 50% chance to resist them then it is possible that my spell will hit?  I have a 50% chance of my spell either hitting or resisting correct?  With the new CU if it does hit it will hit for the full amount not a reduced amount.  Am I understanding this correctly?  I guess I'm just confused</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Sotha]

<DIV>it means if the mob is immune you cant hit it, if it have 50% chance of resist you will either not hit it at all, or hit it for your full damage</DIV>

[stepha72]

Great, thank you.  I was just wondering if I was understanding it correctly.  Lets just hope the mobs are not fire and ice immune.  If they are just ice immune fine or just fire immune fine but not both.  That just makes wizards pretty much useless.  Resists fine I understand that but totally immune to all our spells would be silly

[Sotha]

Also heard that no mobs will be immune or highly resistant to both types of damage, hope that helps ya

[Noctide]

<P>Well then the bottom line is they didnt fix the disparity then since there are still alot of the old mobs that are out right IMMUNE to cold or heat spells, There are alot of raid level mobs and even some adds that our Ice Comet or Immolation cant even hit.  This significantly lowers our dps in raid situations by making them immune to our best nuke, not only that but the closest damage dealer to throw out was immolation for heat when they were immune to ice comet, but they nerfed the damage on that too.  We had a chance at cutting the disparity in DPS on raids with some of the earlier testing AE's for wizards doing damage in both heat and cold to help compensate but that has been nerfed as well, so it appears we end up worst then we were on live, cept it gets worst, cause now we cant even pump mana in these situations where the mob is highly immune.  I am not sure that the resists mitigation change will make much of a difference since it doesnt appear they changed any actual resists to balance out an even number resistant to poisen as well, so there is now a higher chance that the mob will just outright resist us instead of hitting for reduced damage?...big deal on the mitigation issue, if the spell gets resisted theres nothing to mitigate. I really dont know how all this is going to play out though since it all goes live tomorrow, so lets all get in there test it out and give some accurate feedback to give it one last chance before we all start proclaiming to reroll to warlocks or leave the game.</P>

[stepha72]

<P>Sothars I hope what you heard is true!!!  </P> <P>Now I'm relaxed and I'm gonna sit back and wait to play the game and experience it for myself.   Thanks all</P> <P> </P>

[Lady Uaelr]

Thank you all ALSO!!!

[Nitefl]

<DIV>Aye that is true..if a mob is Fire immune, it will not be ice immune, and vice versa. Since there's no mitigation, we will ALWAYS have atleast one type of magic hitting for full damage.</DIV>

[Nazo]

Keep in mind DoF is a Desert and freakin full of mobs like Spiders. Biggest raid target I saw yet was a huge spider so expecting looots of Poison immunities. Hope instanced raid zones are different.