Warlocks still kings of DPS

[Cronuslord]

<DIV>Hello all Wizards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having posted a copy of this message on the test forums under a different thread, i wanted you all to be aware what the combat revamp represents for your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is my last attempt at letting people know my opinions as a warlock on this subject. I suggest the Wizard community voice their concerns or opinions on this subject on the appropriate forums either on the beta forums or test forums.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as i've seen Wizards have been boosted quite a bit, your single target dps in burst mode has improved quite a bit pre-50, but at the expense of effieciency, this has come at a cost, although your ball of XXX has been buffed with lower recast timers, immolation has been nerfed quite severely, on the AoE side, most of your AoE have been severely nerfed after the DoT rebalance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In comparison, we warlocks has been boosted slightly on the single target dps, Distortion line nerf especially on the nil side, but the soul line has been significantly boosted offsetting the distortion line nerfs.</DIV> <DIV>On the AoE front, we warlocks have been significantly boosted, i can't quite understand this as we were already miles ahead of anyone in this department. Most of the broken warlock spell lines have been fixed and bony grasp is better than your AoE root for one simple reason, it breaks less often. As a Warlock i prefer for my root to be "hardier" than it having a snare component as the end, makes soloing easier and makes much more sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok with that said, here follows a copy of my post on another thread in the testing forums, its a pity only one other warlock has the guts to stand up and be objective in any fashion while the majority seem to only be concerned with whether we remain the no1 dps class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Copy of test follows :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Lastly, as a warlock i can't help but think poor wizards got the proverbial shaft with the combat upgrade as it stands, at the beginning wizards got fixed in both single target dps and aoe dps, after an emotionally charged assault of posts by disgruntled warlocks which in fact are a disgrace to the warlock community, wizards were once again nerfed back to their apparently rightfully place of second class dps citizens.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One good thing came out of the furore created by my warlock bretheren, most of our broken spell lineup got fixed, but i can't for the life of me understand or will ever understand how warlocks find it acceptable to expect us to do vastly more dps than wizards and think that is acceptable to those people having the misfortune to playing a wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now as things stand, we warlocks can outdps wizards by the provorbial mile on AoE encounters and since most of the mobs in this game and even more in DoF are encounters, the wizards AoE (DoT) nerfs Et al shifts them into a class of their own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most my bretherin complained about our lack of single target dps, well, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], i don't like only being AoE king, so to that end our nukes combined with our less than effecient AoE to single target attacks makes us stand close to toe to toe with wizards single target dps, and if the single target has more HP than expected, you can expect the wizards to run out of power long before we do if we limit ourselves to our single target nukes, so in summary, lets took at both classes side by side.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AoE Masters                       ----> Warlocks by as much as 50-100% above wizards.</DIV> <DIV>Single Target Masters         ----> Wizards by as much as +-10% above warlocks</DIV> <DIV>Single target Effeciency      ----> Warlocks</DIV> <DIV>AoE Effeciency                    ----> Warlcoks</DIV> <DIV>Single target / AoE Debuffs ----> Warlocks</DIV> <DIV>Goup utility spells                ----> Wizards ( Evac, Int Buffs etc)</DIV> <DIV>AoE Roots                           ----> Warlocks ( i prefer a more stable root than one with a snare <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if one takes that the above info and one think of it in context to the game and its mobs and encounters its clear than we warlocks maintain our position as king of DPS in both damage and effeciency.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a long time warlock player i cannot sit by and be happy with what wizards have received, i won't even mention the raid mob resists that have plagued the wizard community into becoming the power feeders in raids, this has now been nerfed so we shall see if mob resists to cold and fire have changed much with regard to high lvl raid mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In closing, i don't trust the dps parsing samples beig used in beta for both warlocks and wizards, i think these are very subjective and the specific parsing samples i have seen before the wizard nerf debacle was that we warlocks still had the edge in raids (AoE) dps, after these nerfs the wizards have fallen further back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How does this affect me, it doesn't, i play a warlock and am reasonable happy with current state of my class, i do however dislike the 50-60 spell line up, its not exciting, its bland, but as i've thought all along on live, we warlocks were vastly overpowered compared to wizards and i fear with 2 days to go to release, wizards are forever to remain second fiddles to us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There you have it, i don't want to hear another Wizard complain that warlocks are all whinners and only care about themselves, i've done my bit, now its up to you, the wizard community to voice your concerns if you feel like it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kalda]

I am growing more comcerned about the changes wizards obtained. At first the test posts were all looking very nice, steadily it seems, we lost all the ground we gained. I wont know for sure till this coming week as the wizards on test just dont post enough data for me to tell exactly whats happening. But, if they mess this up, we may lose more players <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> We dont want that to happen. <div></div>

[Kwoung]

I was never one to compare my class to others personally. All I generally care about is whether my class is fun to play. After the latest round of changes on Test, I can confidently say, my class is not much fun at all. I pay SOE for the "fun factor" of EQ2, not for balance, not for anything else... and during these combat changes over the past month or so... they have managed to completely suck the fun out of being a wizzy for me and have done the same to my wifes Defiler. Since we choose to do all our testing on Test and not on the beta server, I can not speak to post 50. But I can confidently say, that at 50, I would rather be playing a different game entirely and am holding out and hoping that Monday brings... a considerable bunch of changes to make the game fun to play again.

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cronuslord wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>AoE Masters                       ----> Warlocks by as much as 50-100% above wizards</FONT>.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3333ff>Single Target Masters         ----> Wizards by as much as +-10% above warlocks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Single target Effeciency      ----> Warlocks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>AoE Effeciency                    ----> Warlcoks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Single target / AoE Debuffs ----> Warlocks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3333ff>Goup utility spells                ----> Wizards ( Evac, Int Buffs etc)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>AoE Roots                           ----> Warlocks ( i prefer a more stable root than one with a snare <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wherever wizards are superior, it is in blue, where warlocks, yellow</P> <P> </P> <P>So basically wizards are S out of luck again?   Nothing like [Removed for Content] off the most played caster class for business.<BR></P>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Apparently the SOE devs don't want to hear it anymore - I think this issue is mute.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No response to the most recent issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good time to cancel DoF - wizards will be 2nd rate citizens and no new armor or robes - everything the same except we have sand and we can play pokemon.</DIV>

[brow27]

You have what, 2 or 3 players crying fowl, and you're all just gonna give up? What a bunch of whiny [Removed for Content].  Play it for yourself and decide.  But it won't matter, so many of you have already made up your mind that it will never be how you want it, that it WON'T, no matter what they do.  Good riddance. <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<P>Have you read what is going on?</P> <P> </P> <P>Are you happy with what is possibly coming to be.</P>

[Khalay]

<P>I really thought SOE would balance things out for the two classes. Guess not.</P> <P> </P> <P>I'm tired of telling SOE about these differences. They just dont seem to listen. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[BlitzDog]

<DIV>I paid for my preorder in full and claimed my monkey so I wont be getting a refund and honestly I dont see me taking a hour out of my day to pick it up. It can sit in the back and rot just like soe has done with us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hate having just 1 item upgrade since May. ( I cant raid so I know that makes me a loser and I dont even deserver to have clothes at all)</DIV> <DIV>Servers are empty.</DIV> <DIV>Everyone has same robe even rogues wear it</DIV> <DIV>Crafters are rare  seems like they get 50 then quit.</DIV> <DIV>The dumbest restrictions ive ever seen in games.</DIV> <DIV>MG and BG work for soe</DIV> <DIV>SoE.............................</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The graphics kick butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good job graphic designers and anyone else who helped with it to bad you didnt make the rest of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry if I get your topic locked but I dont think most of us will be around to read it in a few days/week</DIV>

[DI2AG]

SOE just have no clue at all... i mean it seems they just go off which class whines the most and boosts them and nerfs the others. if warlocks are so far above us on the AE encounters, we should be sufficiently higher on the single target... not just narrowly. we need more wizards on BETA voicing themselves, i can't wait till i start playing DoF and see what Sony always end up doing, and that is screwing up. If you're going to nerf our utlity, rooting capability and that odd chance of dodging a hit... dps department is basically all we have, FIX NOW PLZ KTHX

[Visay1]

<DIV>Whats really sad is SOE got it right when Beta started and just introduced all the problems and unfairness again with every "balance" patch they made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arkanis</DIV>

[suroktheslayer5]

Can you whinners go away already? You keep shouting how you gonna leave but you never do......go on shoo shooo<span>:smileytongue:</span> .......you still here.....figures<span>:smileymad:</span> I swear you whinners make it seem like SOE is  ramming nails into your eyeballs everytime you log on.  If it's that painful do us all a favor and leave so we don't have hear your inane screeching about this class other class has 0.00000000000001 more dps than the other. If you're not having fun then don't play, simple as that. Go play WoW, a console game, read a book, or go for a walk. Stop being so hysterical about something that really doesn't matter. Surok <div></div>

[Xcomdefen]

<span><blockquote><hr>suroktheslayer5 wrote:Can you whinners go away already? You keep shouting how you gonna leave but you never do......go on shoo shooo<span>:smileytongue:</span> .......you still here.....figures<span>:smileymad:</span> I swear you whinners make it seem like SOE is  ramming nails into your eyeballs everytime you log on.  If it's that painful do us all a favor and leave so we don't have hear your inane screeching about this class other class has 0.00000000000001 more dps than the other. If you're not having fun then don't play, simple as that. Go play WoW, a console game, read a book, or go for a walk. Stop being so hysterical about something that really doesn't matter. Surok <div></div><hr></blockquote>so I pan over this and read it again...starting to sound like you're being sarcastic?...I'm not sure Issues have to be voiced somehow, and it's been proven to have an effect sometimes. call it what you want, whining, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing, agruing, it has to be said somehow. So what if the player is 10 years old or 50yo?, to say that they are speaking nonsense would be a lie.</span><div></div>

[BlazTink]

It's painful because many of us have spent months playing(that's EQ2 playing time), all the while feeling crappy about our DPS and only being invited to raids to mana-pump if at all. We love our class but we want to see it FIXED. After all the promises and the waiting, SOE has failed to deliver and make Wizards useful/desirable. WE WANT JUSTICE!!!

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlazTinker wrote:<BR>It's painful because many of us have spent months playing(that's EQ2 playing time), all the while feeling crappy about our DPS and only being invited to raids to mana-pump if at all. We love our class but we want to see it FIXED. After all the promises and the waiting, SOE has failed to deliver and make Wizards useful/desirable. WE WANT JUSTICE!!! <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/agree</P> <P> </P> <P>How can we let them know if we do not post?</P>

[suroktheslayer5]

Big difference between discussion and whinning. I don't mind people posting numbers and discussing what is broken like protoflame (currently in live I don't dare post about test or beta since I havn't played either of them).  What do mind is when people throw temper tantrums and have a grand mal hissy fit and post saying they're gonna quit the game which is equivalent to saying "I'm gonna hold my breath!" Whinners sometimes can work themselves into a lather of hysteria and give the impression to the devs we're all whinny little childeren. Sometimes we have counter post these whinners and reassure the devs that there are some of us that do enjoy the game despite it's flaws. Surok <div></div>

[BlitzDog]

Surok pls go whine elsewhere.

[Noctide]

Ignore surok, another warlock posting as anon.  Please go back to your own boards and stop whining here.

[suroktheslayer5]

Hehe actually I'm a lv 50 wiz, been for some time now<span>:smileytongue:</span> I remeber when protoflame worked briefly. Don't like me whinning about whinners. Sorry, I apologize (not being sarcastic) Surok <div></div>

[brow27]

/agree with surok Reasonable discussion is fine, being upset about screwy changes is fine.  Throwing a hissy fit and threatening to quit over a change THAT IS NOT LIVE is stupid and pointless.  The Devs don't listen to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing and moaning from people who aren't on beta or test.  They understand, as well as most other intelligent folks do, that since you are NOT on beta, you do NOT fully understand the scope of the changes.  The changes will be live tomorrow.  Take a day off from freaking out on the forums (you'll add time to your quickly-shortening lifespan) and log on tomorrow and see the changes for yourself.  Once you have played with the LIVE changes, THEN feel free to spaz out in the usual manner. <div></div>

[suroktheslayer5]

/totallyagree with brow27 <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> lol spaz out, good one. Surok <div></div>

[Fl]

<blockquote><hr>BlazTinker wrote:It's painful because many of us have spent months playing(that's EQ2 playing time), all the while feeling crappy about our DPS and only being invited to raids to mana-pump if at all. We love our class but we want to see it FIXED. After all the promises and the waiting, SOE has failed to deliver and make Wizards useful/desirable. WE WANT JUSTICE!!! <hr></blockquote>I actually left eq2 4 months ago because of this. I came back when I saw the combat revamp coming up. I was excited and looked forward to actually being usefull on raids and feeling like an equal when next to a warlock. From what I gather this is still not going to be the case. To all you warlocks coming here and telling us we're whining... go take a look at your forums and see what your brothers have been doing for weeks now! In a recent post a warlock said something along the lines : " we're mearly adopting the tactics wizards used to get SOE's attention and what we want because it works."So let us complain and go complain on your forums. k thnx bye bye

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>Cronuslord you are misrepresenting the facts and have posted nothing in your entire history except that warlocks are better than wizards.  You've posted nothing on beta boards.  </P> <P>I would be willing to bet just about anything you're umm...not a warlock.  You talk about disgruntled warlocks getting wizards nerfed?  LOL!  First off it doesn't work that way.  Secondly, I'm fairly certain you are a disgruntled wizard trying to get warlocks nerfed.  But since you claim you are a warlock on every post before you start making up crap, what server are you on and what's your toon's name?  Since you have nothing, NOTHING to back up ANYTHING you've said, why not give a little validity to your post by saying who you are.  Hmmm?</P> <P>Warlock or Wizard, you are purposefully trying to cause drama between the two communities and it's an embarrassment to sorcerors all around.</P> <P>My advice -- don't go up in arms about what you are hearing from this person and the lone wizard that seems to be posting alongside him; test it yourself tomorrow.  They've admitted on beta boards that testing is not complete, so if things are ubalanced tomorrow, we will work together to get them balanced.</P><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 AM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Splatterpunk28 wrote:<BR> <P>Cronuslord you are misrepresenting the facts and have posted nothing in your entire history except that warlocks are better than wizards.  You've posted nothing on beta boards.  </P> <P>I would be willing to bet just about anything you're umm...not a warlock.  You talk about disgruntled warlocks getting wizards nerfed?  LOL!  First off it doesn't work that way.  Secondly, I'm fairly certain you are a disgruntled wizard trying to get warlocks nerfed.  But since you claim you are a warlock on every post before you start making up crap, what server are you on and what's your toon's name?  Since you have nothing, NOTHING to back up ANYTHING you've said, why not give a little validity to your post by saying who you are.  Hmmm?</P> <P>Warlock or Wizard, you are purposefully trying to cause drama between the two communities and it's an embarrassment to sorcerors all around.</P> <P>My advice -- don't go up in arms about what you are hearing from this person and the lone wizard that seems to be posting alongside him; test it yourself tomorrow.  They've admitted on beta boards that testing is not complete, so if things are ubalanced tomorrow, we will work together to get them balanced.</P> <P>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:47 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This forum is pulluted with warlock trash.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway, on live, we have an unbreakable root, meager buffing skills, and get higher resistances on mobs across the board.</P> <P>What will hit the fan tomorrow:  Nerfed roots, even more meager utility, and higher resistances.</P> <P> </P> <P>This just gets better and better....</P>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote: <blockquote> <hr></blockquote><p>This forum is pulluted with warlock trash.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Ah yes, TP giving all Wizards everywhere a good name. Your manners are almost as appalling as your spelling.</span><div></div>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote: <blockquote> <hr> </blockquote><p> and get higher resistances on mobs across the board.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>..and just to prove you have no idea what you're talking about, mobs now have NO resistances at all since all physical/magical mitigation has been removed (except for immunes). For your own sake please be quiet before you embarass yourself even further.</span><div></div>

[suroktheslayer5]

<div></div><font size="7"> </font><div></div><p>Message Edited by suroktheslayer5 on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:48 PM</span>

[Cronuslord]

<DIV> <P></P> <HR> <P>I would be willing to bet just about anything you're umm...not a warlock.�  You talk about disgruntled warlocks getting wizards nerfed?�  LOL!�  First off it doesn't work that way.�  Secondly,<FONT color=#ffff00> I'm fairly certain you are a disgruntled wizard trying to get warlocks</FONT> <FONT color=#ffff00>nerfed</FONT>.�  But� since you claim� you are a warlock� on every post before you start making up crap, what server are you on and what's your toon's name?�  Since you have nothing, NOTHING to back up� ANYTHING you've said, why not give a little validity to your post by saying who you are.�  Hmmm?</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>I have nothing to prove to the likes of you,�  and the highlighted part proves you are just another warlock holding on to class domination, subjective and a total stranger to the concept of fairness.</P> <P>i will meet someone that has posted on this forum and they can vouch for me being a warlock. just so people here know how much of an idiot you are for accusing me of being a wizard.</P> <P>� </P> <P>� </P></DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cronuslord wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P></P> <HR> <P>I would be willing to bet just about anything you're umm...not a warlock.�  You talk about disgruntled warlocks getting wizards nerfed?�  LOL!�  First off it doesn't work that way.�  Secondly,<FONT color=#ffff00> I'm fairly certain you are a disgruntled wizard trying to get warlocks</FONT> <FONT color=#ffff00>nerfed</FONT>.�  But� since you claim� you are a warlock� on every post before you start making up crap, what server are you on and what's your toon's name?�  Since you have nothing, NOTHING to back up� ANYTHING you've said, why not give a little validity to your post by saying who you are.�  Hmmm?</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>I have nothing to prove to the likes of you,�  and the highlighted part proves you are just another warlock holding on to class domination, subjective and a total stranger to the concept of fairness.</P> <P>i will meet someone that has posted on this forum and they can vouch for me being a warlock. just so people here know how much of an idiot you are for accusing me of being a wizard.</P> <P>� </P> <P>� </P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think your posts are infomative and helpful....thank you.<BR>

[Weekst]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=151803" target=_blank><SPAN>Cronuslord</SPAN></A> <<< hahaha Troll..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Weekster on <span class=date_text>09-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:54 PM</span>

[Cronuslord]

<P>Very thoughtfull, articulate and intelligent post Weekster, well done.</P> <P>Lady, its my pleasure, i won't give up especially now since i've been attacked, to be honest, i expected as much, although i've never wanted or asked for my class to be nerfed it hasn't stopped the bugs crawling out of the woodwork to try and make me out to be insane or an imposter to somehow discredit anything i have to say on the subject.</P> <P>As SoE has pointed out, changes will continue after launch, no doubt they will keep an eye on how things progress and i have hope that your class will get the fixes it needs, whether it be on AoE dps and/or mob immunities to your damage type / ice comet.</P> <P> </P>

[Fingle]

I for one will take a wait and see attitude on my 50 wiz.  I will see how it plays tonight (hopefully).  I expect there will be a number of follow up patches in the next few weeks to fix issues.  I believe a number of people have been holding on for this revamp to see issues addressed.  Sony will only have so much time after today to fix any big remaining issues before they lose people. My big hope is that after the dust settles Wizard and Warlock DPS will be equivalent, but some how differentiated, and of course fun to play <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Mindblade (Najena) 50 wiz - Talisman (Najena) 50 Guard <div></div>