Initial Damage Parses

[goboy]

<DIV> <DIV>Ok,</DIV> <DIV><BR>I found an old log file from a couple of days ago.  Here is how the changes are shaking out:</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3333></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00><SPAN>                         </SPAN>Old<SPAN>             </SPAN>Initial<SPAN>        </SPAN>Change<SPAN>       </SPAN>Debuff<SPAN>         </SPAN>Change</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Ice Comet<SPAN>           </SPAN>4590<SPAN>           </SPAN>2733<SPAN>        </SPAN>-40%<SPAN>           </SPAN>3715<SPAN>           </SPAN>-19%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Ball of Flames<SPAN>     </SPAN>1231<SPAN>           </SPAN>1070<SPAN>        </SPAN>-13%<SPAN>           </SPAN>1140<SPAN>           </SPAN>-7%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Icy Wind<SPAN>             </SPAN>450<SPAN>             </SPAN>425<SPAN>          </SPAN>-6%<SPAN>            </SPAN>431<SPAN>             </SPAN>-4%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Immolate<SPAN>            </SPAN>167<SPAN>             </SPAN>143<SPAN>          </SPAN>-14%<SPAN>           </SPAN>159<SPAN>             </SPAN>-5%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Paralyze<SPAN>             </SPAN>1191<SPAN>           </SPAN>1173<SPAN>        </SPAN>-2%<SPAN>            </SPAN>1206<SPAN>           </SPAN>1%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Ice Flame<SPAN>           </SPAN>422<SPAN>             </SPAN>427<SPAN>          </SPAN>1%<SPAN>             </SPAN>435<SPAN>             </SPAN>3%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Flamestrike<SPAN>         </SPAN>591<SPAN>             </SPAN>543<SPAN>          </SPAN>-8%<SPAN>            </SPAN>538<SPAN>             </SPAN>-9%</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>My intelligence was 251.  The debuff used is piercing icicles adept 3.  It does appear from my parsing that using piercing icicles will help with damage.  Of course, more parsing needs to be performed.</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>

[Kalda]

OMG, tell me this iis a joke. <div></div>

[Keegant]

<P>Only one sentence is needed. Mobs have less HP.</P> <P>We are top of the food chain in DPS, be happy with that and drive on.</P>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div>Actually Keegantir, there's quite a bit more to it than that - this not only affects our dps but also power and aggro management. Plenty of other threads on this around.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <span class=date_text>09-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:35 PM</span>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keegantir wrote:<BR> <P>Only one sentence is needed. Mobs have less HP.</P> <P>We are top of the food chain in DPS, be happy with that and drive on.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Where exactly did you experience mobs with less hitpoints? Mob hitpoints have raised dramatically during these combat changes as far as anything I have been fighting goes.<BR> <p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>09-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:48 AM</span>

[goboy]

<P>As kwoung pointed out to me, while the debuff of piercing icicles is helpful - it is counterproductive when you need to keep a target rooted to kill it.  Now, most solo targets die fast enough - but herioc mobs (especially with no tank) need a solid root.</P> <P>One suggestion would be to remove piercing icicles dot portion and make it strictly a debuff.  The 70 points of dot damage is not worth it if it is going to break root.</P> <P> </P>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV> <DIV>Did all of you see this post.........I am happy for warlocks at least you guys ar fairing better than us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it is time we throw in the towel on this - SOE just continues to treat wizards like yo-yo's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hello all Wizards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having posted a copy of this message on the test forums under a different thread, i wanted you all to be aware what the combat revamp represents for your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is my last attempt at letting people know my opinions as a warlock on this subject. I suggest the Wizard community voice their concerns or opinions on this subject on the appropriate forums either on the beta forums or test forums.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as i've seen Wizards have been boosted quite a bit, your single target dps in burst mode has improved quite a bit pre-50, but at the expense of effieciency, this has come at a cost, although your ball of XXX has been buffed with lower recast timers, immolation has been nerfed quite severely, on the AoE side, most of your AoE have been severely nerfed after the DoT rebalance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In comparison, we warlocks has been boosted slightly on the single target dps, Distortion line nerf especially on the nil side, but the soul line has been significantly boosted offsetting the distortion line nerfs.</DIV> <DIV>On the AoE front, we warlocks have been significantly boosted, i can't quite understand this as we were already miles ahead of anyone in this department. Most of the broken warlock spell lines have been fixed and bony grasp is better than your AoE root for one simple reason, it breaks less often. As a Warlock i prefer for my root to be "hardier" than it having a snare component as the end, makes soloing easier and makes much more sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok with that said, here follows a copy of my post on another thread in the testing forums, its a pity only one other warlock has the guts to stand up and be objective in any fashion while the majority seem to only be concerned with whether we remain the no1 dps class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Copy of test follows :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Lastly, as a warlock i can't help but think poor wizards got the proverbial shaft with the combat upgrade as it stands, at the beginning wizards got fixed in both single target dps and aoe dps, after an emotionally charged assault of posts by disgruntled warlocks which in fact are a disgrace to the warlock community, wizards were once again nerfed back to their apparently rightfully place of second class dps citizens.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One good thing came out of the furore created by my warlock bretheren, most of our broken spell lineup got fixed, but i can't for the life of me understand or will ever understand how warlocks find it acceptable to expect us to do vastly more dps than wizards and think that is acceptable to those people having the misfortune to playing a wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now as things stand, we warlocks can outdps wizards by the provorbial mile on AoE encounters and since most of the mobs in this game and even more in DoF are encounters, the wizards AoE (DoT) nerfs Et al shifts them into a class of their own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most my bretherin complained about our lack of single target dps, well, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], i don't like only being AoE king, so to that end our nukes combined with our less than effecient AoE to single target attacks makes us stand close to toe to toe with wizards single target dps, and if the single target has more HP than expected, you can expect the wizards to run out of power long before we do if we limit ourselves to our single target nukes, so in summary, lets took at both classes side by side.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AoE Masters                       ----> Warlocks by as much as 50-100% above wizards.</DIV> <DIV>Single Target Masters         ----> Wizards by as much as +-10% above warlocks</DIV> <DIV>Single target Effeciency      ----> Warlocks</DIV> <DIV>AoE Effeciency                    ----> Warlcoks</DIV> <DIV>Single target / AoE Debuffs ----> Warlocks</DIV> <DIV>Goup utility spells                ----> Wizards ( Evac, Int Buffs etc)</DIV> <DIV>AoE Roots                           ----> Warlocks ( i prefer a more stable root than one with a snare <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if one takes that the above info and one think of it in context to the game and its mobs and encounters its clear than we warlocks maintain our position as king of DPS in both damage and effeciency.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a long time warlock player i cannot sit by and be happy with what wizards have received, i won't even mention the raid mob resists that have plagued the wizard community into becoming the power feeders in raids, this has now been nerfed so we shall see if mob resists to cold and fire have changed much with regard to high lvl raid mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In closing, i don't trust the dps parsing samples beig used in beta for both warlocks and wizards, i think these are very subjective and the specific parsing samples i have seen before the wizard nerf debacle was that we warlocks still had the edge in raids (AoE) dps, after these nerfs the wizards have fallen further back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How does this affect me, it doesn't, i play a warlock and am reasonable happy with current state of my class, i do however dislike the 50-60 spell line up, its not exciting, its bland, but as i've thought all along on live, we warlocks were vastly overpowered compared to wizards and i fear with 2 days to go to release, wizards are forever to remain second fiddles to us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There you have it, i don't want to hear another Wizard complain that warlocks are all whinners and only care about themselves, i've done my bit, now its up to you, the wizard community to voice your concerns if you feel like it.</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Khalay]

<P>Yes making a Warlock seems more and more promising. Perhaps i will put my wizard on the shelf for now and go play a Warlock. Obviously thats what SOE wants caster DPS to do.</P> <P>As the proverb says: "If you cant beat em, join em" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Magiocracy]

The only thing I'd say to Wizards and Warlocks alike is - GIVE THE CHANGES A CHANCE. They WILL take some getting used to and they WILL cause everyone to re-evaluate how they play the game. If you're not happy about the direction that a spell or the class in general has taken, then LET SOE KNOW. <div></div>

[Visay1]

<P>I have a correct one point in the post of Uaelrae.</P> <P>I do not think Wizards are ahead in Utility. With a cap of 350 INT in lvl 50 atm the INT buff of the Wizard becomes worthless. Warlocks get a buff for all casting skills that will lead to far less resists and it much better than the INT buff of the Wizard. </P> <P>Evac? Never used it for for something else than travel. So a best we are equal in our Utility</P> <P>Arkanis</P>

[tentim]

Well if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I've been reading the forums very carefully, and have been horrified to see that they are screwing wizards with exactly the same "I don't give a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]" attitude as the did in EQ1. Upto now I haven't posted much, but I have levelled my warlock to 15 and intend to play her instead. I will test the wizard in DoF, and will probably have to go on raids where all my spells are resisted until I get the warlock to 50. It's a real shame. To the people that are saying "wait and see - don't give up!". Well we have about 5 years of this from SOE/Verant in EQ1. Once bitten, twice shy - they have proved how they respond by the limitless [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ups they made with the wizard class in EQ1. As for warlocks - I don't want to see them nerfed, but to make us comparible (=wanted on a raid) they should revisit resist on our big spells so they aren't pointless (read post in combat changesd - ou nukes are still bouncing off raid mobs or doing no damage) and up our DD damge/un'nerf our AE dmg. Also - why should a warlock have a better root?? I will give it a go, but I'm certainly spending today continueing to level the warlock - looks like they will be a hell of alot more fun to play, and wanted much more than their poor cousings, the wizard. <div></div>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>tentimes wrote:Also - why should a warlock have a better root?? <div></div><hr></blockquote>All the roots are identical except for the special effects : Bony Grasp has half the chance to break on damage and Ring of Cold has a guaranteed snare on termination. I personally agree that the reduced chace to break is better, but they're arguably pretty close. Truss is another guaranteed snare on termination while Cower is a 50% chance to fear. Truss is definitely superior there. </span><div></div>