Does this trend continue?!?

[sundanc]

Alright, so  me and my friend decided to start new alts, him a warlock and me a wizard. Things were going great our dps was great we were chaining HO's like crazy. The all of a sudden when we hit level 23 we saw a huge difference in the power of our level 23 nukes. We are both level 23 right now and both have the adept 3 of our lvl 23 nuke. Mine: Ball of Fire: Power: 85 Casting Time: 3.0 seconds Recovery Time: 0.5 seconds Recast Time: 12.0 seconds Class Wizard(23)  Mastery Disruption(165) Effects: Inflicts 296-443 damage on target His: Dark Distortion Power: 85 Casting Time: 2.0 seconds Recovery Time: 0.5 seconds Recast Time: 8.0 seconds Class Warlock(23) Mastery Discruption(165) Effects Inflicts 390-585 damage on target and returns 33 power to the caster (not exact wording) Now is it just me or do these spells seem redicilously unbalanced? I guess my question is, does this trend of Warlock nukes being far better then Wizard nukes continue, or do i get more nukes to balance it out? Does it ever balance out? If not SOE really needs to address this. <div></div>

[adamflanagan]

is it really necessary to start another one of these threads?? <div></div>

[Ashare]

In the order, responses to your questions : yes, they are ridiculously unbalanced. yes this trend continue for long, and no they are never balanced out. No it never balances out. And yes, SoE should do something,  but nothing will be done until combat changes, and we don't know what to expect. Look at the threads in here and warlock forums, half to 75% of the threads on the first two pages are about this. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Asterra]

Actually, Warlocks are pretty satisfied with their lot, as one might imagine.  Their forums trend towards "healthy" discussions such as what spells to upgrade, how to solo, etc.  It's really only the Wizard forums that suffer from a blatant misproportion of posts complaining about the class.

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Have another example...</P> <P>Ball of Flames...lvl 37 Adept III (fresh at lvl 37 with 185 disruption/elemental amstery)</P> <P>dmg 500-750</P> <P> </P> <P>Nil Distortion...lvl 37 apprentice 1 (fresh at lvl 37 with 185 disruption/noctivagence skill)</P> <P>750-1000 dmg, yes at <STRONG>APPRENTICE ONE</STRONG> IT OUT DPS'S OUR NUKE AT <STRONG>ADEPT THREE</STRONG></P> <P>did I mention power replenishment for this spell</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[OneBadAli]

<P>It gets even worse as you gain levels. </P> <P>Wait till you get to 50 and get the infamous ice comet that lands for 3656 at adept 3 on a single target, yet 9 out of every 10 raid mobs are immune to cold. Then to top it off warlocks get devastation at level 50 that can do +12,000 damage at adept 3 and is resisted by basically no raid mobs... </P> <P>How bout them apples?</P>

[Dae]

I thought Ball of Flames was your equivalent of Noxious Bolt and Immolation was your equivalent of Nil Distortion. I probably got the spell name wrong but there's some very short duration DoT with equivalent damage to ND. Either that or I'm horribly misinformed. You also neglect to mention cast times in your comparison. Aaaanyway... But of course we don't need another of these threads. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the damned update ever goes live. <div></div>

[SalBlu]

<DIV> <P><FONT color=#66cc00><STRONG><EM><FONT size=2>Wait till you get to 50 and get the infamous ice comet that lands for 3656 at adept 3 on a single target, yet 9 out of every 10 raid mobs are immune to cold. Then to top it off warlocks get devastation at level 50 that can do +12,000 damage at adept 3 and is resisted by basically no raid mobs...</FONT></EM></STRONG> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>It doesnt hit for 12,000.  It hits for about 2,500 if I remember right.  The only time it ever does more is if it hits multiple mobs.  With the way my guild runs its raids, we very rarely use AOE because of the Coercers and Illusionists we have that mezz all adds for later cleanup.  </FONT></P> <P>Devastation is very situational, whereas Ice Comet is a direct threat... albeit a direct threat that is resisted/immuned far too often.</P></DIV>

[Dae]

Devastation Adept 3 does about 1.8-2k on a non-debuffed mob (pretty much if you're using it as an AE) and 2.5-3k on a debuffed mob if you're very lucky. There's seems to be something funny with the number of ticks you get out of it too. I had it tick for a 5th time once on a single mob but I've not noticed it do that again. This is all assuming you survive the resulting aggro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <div></div>

[Cecil_Stri]

<DIV>These threads are kinda pointless... They aren't gonna do anything till the combat revamp and when they do wizards and warlocks should be closer.. or wizards may even be better then warlocks then.  who knows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If wizards do land on the up side then expect to see these threads clouding the warlocks boards as well</DIV>

[anshar]

<P>Personally, I do not care which sub-class is better. I, for one, will not complain if Wizards come out on top. If they nerf my class to be virtually non-playable, I will be a bit upset.</P> <P>Once again, I would like to try to impress upon people. It is not important to compare sub-classes. It is important to fix problems. Please try to keep this is mind. Every time you say 'Nerf the Warlocks', you are shortchanging yourself. Instead, say with me 'FIX the WIZARDS' Ask yourself the question: Which would most likely show an increase in overall ability?</P> <P> </P>

[SalBlu]

Yep.  That's how I stand Anshar.  I'll enjoy playing my character any way you give her to me.  I dont want to see Warlocks get nerfed back though.  It will be the same problems all over again, just on the Warlock side.

[Grimbard]

<P>I completely agree.  Wizards need to be fixed.  Warlocks do NOT need to be nerfed.</P> <P>Fix Protoflame, some of my mana costs and some raid resists and my wizard is good to go.</P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV><BR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tar~Palantir on <span class=date_text>07-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:16 PM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daerv wrote:<BR>I thought Ball of Flames was your equivalent of Noxious Bolt and Immolation was your equivalent of Nil Distortion. I probably got the spell name wrong but there's some very short duration DoT with equivalent damage to ND. Either that or I'm horribly misinformed. You also neglect to mention cast times in your comparison. Aaaanyway...<BR><BR>But of course we don't need another of these threads. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the damned update ever goes live.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Noxious bolt comes at 30 and we have no equivalent to it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nil Distortion and Ball of Flames both come at level 37 and both are large damage dealers using the Direct Damage style.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One is just obscenely more powerful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards do need to be brough up higher, lots to amtch warlocks, or SOE's preferred method...nerfing warlocks.</DIV>

[OneBadAli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#66cc00><STRONG><EM><FONT size=2>Wait till you get to 50 and get the infamous ice comet that lands for 3656 at adept 3 on a single target, yet 9 out of every 10 raid mobs are immune to cold. Then to top it off warlocks get devastation at level 50 that can do +12,000 damage at adept 3 and is resisted by basically no raid mobs...</FONT></EM></STRONG> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>It doesnt hit for 12,000.  It hits for about 2,500 if I remember right.  The only time it ever does more is if it hits multiple mobs.  With the way my guild runs its raids, we very rarely use AOE because of the Coercers and Illusionists we have that mezz all adds for later cleanup.  </FONT></P> <P>Devastation is very situational, whereas Ice Comet is a direct threat... albeit a direct threat that is resisted/immuned far too often.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It does hit for 12,000 and i dont know who your raid leader is, but we use aoe on almost every single raid mob in the game, and have no problems. It can hit up to 5 targets in the group. Lets face it devastation wasnt meant to be cast on a solo mob, its meant to be cast on multiple targets, it hits for about 2500 average per mob, thats 12,500. So quit saying that it only hits for 2500, thats one single target, thats completely ignorant to say.</P> <P>Trust me, warlocks use this continually in about every raid scenario, except yours where you mez every single mob. Once you get effective at dps you wont need to mez, just get 4 warlocks and chain cast devastation (and yes about every tank i've ever raided with can and will hold the  aggro) then the dps parsers pop up and warlocks are gettin 400 to 600 dps average, wizards 100-150.</P> <P>So back to the topic, devastation does hit for 12,500 (2500x5 targets, can max at up to 15,000 at adept 3). Its primary use is in raids to take down groups of mobs(even on a single mob it does close to the damage ice comet can do, thats just totally sad). Ice comet is useless in all but just a handfull of zones and can only do a max damage of +/- 3600 at adept 3. GGz...</P> <P>I like how the warlock comes on here and tries to defend devastation then finishes off with how he could get aggro by using it, lolz. What a tough life lemme tell ya...And if your getting agg then get a tank that has adept or master taunts and knows when to taunt and you wont have to worry. Then u can see your dps go from 200 -300 on single target mobs to 400-600 against grouped mobs.</P> <p>Message Edited by OneBadAlien on <span class=date_text>07-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:01 PM</span>

[THuNDeRHe]

<span><blockquote><hr>OneBadAlien wrote:<div></div><p>...And if your getting agg then get a tank that has adept or master taunts and knows when to taunt and you wont have to worry. </p><hr></blockquote>Good point here.... I've never pulled agro off my MT in any reasonable group situation, and never in a raid.  If you as a wizard are pulling agro off the MT, you need to get a new tank, or more likely, get your tank to taunt, or buy higher level taunts.</span><div></div>

[Asterra]

<span><blockquote><hr><font color="#ffffff">It doesnt hit for 12,000.  It hits for about 2,500 if I remember right.  The only time it ever does more is if it hits multiple mobs.</font><hr></blockquote></span>Indeed.  And multiple-mob scenarios are a bit rare when it comes to raids.  In fact, I think only Zarvonn's Tower, Shattered Stillness, Orcishwastes Caverns, Meeting of the Minds, Cove of Decay, Kra'thuk, Hand of Caldera, Knubed, Nagalik, Venekor, King Zatan, Vaz'gok, Fist of Solusek, Spirits of the Lost, all three of the Fire and Ice instances, Acts of War and Brutal Acts of War manage to present golden AE opportunities. <div></div>

[AkashaSh]

<DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0066>i am happy with my class...i have started some alts because i am 50 and what else is there to do when you not raiding he he and i have gotten to play with some warlocks and they can kick out some dmg and they can take some mad aggro....i will have to say i picked a wizzie thinkin it would be the highest dps and all that but warlocks seem to be on the end....now i am happy with the way my wizzie is she can kick out some mad dmg and not take aggro even when trying if you have a good tank and give them 2 seconds to get aggro i could not take it away i tryed this sooo i am happy with that.....now all the warlocks i ever played with just take aggro all the time even when tank has aggro....my point is i may not do as much dmg as a warlock but i dont take as much aggro either and as we all know aggro and bath robe wearer do not go hand and hand....he he.... more dmg would be great but you just have to think what that would mean....now with more dmg i am sure i could find ways to play and not take aggro but right now i know how to play my toon and i am happy! i can not wait to find out what is up with the revamp to see what they are doing with all classes!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>

[Telcontari71]

<P>Sadly....</P> <P>Wizards are going to get nerfed.   Warlocks are going to get a much bigger nerf.    No single player should be able to take down a ^^ mob at their same level.  It is coming so accept it, and get over it.</P> <P>Wizards and warlocks have been overpowered for a long time.  I just hope they balance the resistances for the mobs.  All mobs including raid mobs.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Nimrodel</P>

[Ashare]

Bwahhahaha. Again, you are talking for SPECIFIC mobs, in SPECIFIC zones, at a really HIGH level range(AFTER lv 45). Wizards problems are there from lvl 25/26 to the level 42 at least. Oh, and they won't nerf the wizzard, it's just they'll change the named ones and the ^^ ones to be more challenging against casters(like they are to non casters). <div></div>

[WaachBack]

<DIV>And its still going on....wow....</DIV>

[Tyrant Invict]

<P>I'm a level 50 wizard.</P> <P>I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.</P> <P>I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.</P>

[OneBadAli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tyrant Invictus wrote:<BR> <P>I'm a level 50 wizard.</P> <P>I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.</P> <P>I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok then post some parses (from raid zones), so we can all laugh continuously at the warlocks in your guild with all app 1 spells...</P> <P>Or better yet point you out for being the liar u are. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tyrant Invictus wrote:<BR> <P>I'm a level 50 wizard.</P> <P>I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.</P> <P>I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I suppose your warlocks wonder what these spell scrolls are on the broker.

[Seth]

<P>Im a lvl 49 warlock. Never looked back.</P> <P>Anyway, we get a big nuke at 23. Yey!</P> <P>We get a big nuke at 37 yey!</P> <P>We get an AoE at 50.... booo! So wat if it does 5000dmg or watever. You shoot that thing off you have 3 mobs on ya in 2secs. </P> <P>Playing with a wizard friend who is lvl 46 or 47 we were pretty close in dmg. He would sometimes outdo me, i would sometimes outdo him. But the main thing i noticed is i took aggro most of the time.</P> <P>I dont get were the complaining comes from.</P>

[Zcenicx]

<DIV>I have to agree with Seth01 and Tyrant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a 50 Wizard, fashionably dressed and armed with a glowing stick. Adept3s or better fill my bars. All of them.</DIV> <DIV>I can kill a 51 ^^ mob myself. I've completed Harclave on very difficult.</DIV> <DIV>I do outdamage a warlock dressed as well as me about 50% of the time. The rest he outdamages me. Both of us can pull aggro off of a rubicite dressed guardian with nothing but ad3/ma1 taunts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, you mentioned the raid zones.. well, let me be more specific.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zarvonn's Tower -[Commonlands]- Main mob (King Zalak) is has 3 adds that are rapidly taken care of. AEs are useless after that since it's just lone mobs. Wizard/Warlock damage? Unknown, since both are stuck with add killing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shattered Stillness -[Firemyst Gully]- Main mob (Arch Lich Udalan) comes with two ^^ mobs. Warlocks banned from Devastation due to aggro management reasons. Mobs slightly resistant to noxious. Will call on other groups of minions later on, comes as separate engagements. Casters stuck killing those.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Deserted Mine -[Zek]- Main mob (Tremblar the Behemoth) is alone. No AE necessary. Resistant to noxious and heat. Ring event requires AE, but mobs are resistant to poison. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Meeting of the Minds -[Feerrott]- Main mob (Overlord Oxulius) comes with several adds. Main resistant to fire. Adds are immune to elemental. Main mob is resistant to poison. Warlocks required if these (or Pkzwk Tzkr that calls them) are to be killed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spirits of the Lost -[Temple of Cazic-Thule]- Main mobs are Venekor and Varanak. Venekor immune to fire damage, Varanak resistant to noxious. This zone is too big to be described as one encounter however, and needs both AE and DD damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fire and Ice -[Cove of Decay]- Mob comes with no adds, no known resistance.</DIV> <DIV>Fire and Ice -[Trembling Lagoon]- Mob comes with two adds, sports a resistance to noxious.</DIV> <DIV>Fire and Ice -[Miragul's Menagerie]- Mob comes alone. Immune to cold damage, vulnerable to heat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deception -[Firemyst Gully]- No resistances to either elemental or noxious here.</DIV> <DIV>Deception -[Fallen Gate]- None here either.</DIV> <DIV>Deception -[Sanctum of Fear]- Whoppie! Resistant (almost immune to) disease.</DIV> <DIV>Deception -[Isle of Refuge]- Darathar sports no resistances to sorcery either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Acts of War -[Splitpaw]- Lots of adds. Lots of mobs. Sorry tho, too many for the tank to easily handle - assist the tank, no AEs.</DIV> <DIV>Brutal Acts of War -[Splitpaw]- Even worse than the ordinary instance, still as many adds. Tank strangles the warlock AEing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the Kra'thuk -[Everfrost]- Comes with adds. Doubtful if the warlock survives AEing. Resistant, not immune to, cold.</DIV> <DIV>Hand of the Caldera -[Solusek's Eye]- Immune to fire, but please, this mob is a x2 mob. You count those?</DIV> <DIV>Knubed (aka Knubb) -[Permafrost]- Also an x2, comes with 4 guards that are very easy. No resists. AE is free.</DIV> <DIV>Lord Nagalik -[Solusek's Eye]- No adds, but is in the middle of a spawn zone. Very hard mob, but no AE need. No resists.</DIV> <DIV>Venekor -[Cazic-Thule]- Two adds, to be more precise poison elementals. Immune to noxious. Not immune to Elemental. </DIV> <DIV>King Zatan -[Everfrost]- Another x2. No adds. No resists.</DIV> <DIV>Vaz'gok -[Feerrott]- Comes with ^^ adds. AEs are banned. Considered by many as the 2nd hardest mob in game.</DIV> <DIV>Solusek's Fist -[Lavastorm]- IIRC he comes alone, immune only to heat. In a spawn zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On all these, I can see a few that are indeed immune to cold, or heat. Only one that are both (well, the add is anyways).</DIV> <DIV>You left out that a lot of them are immune to noxious. That means both poison *and* disease. That's the tradeoff we make.</DIV> <DIV>Warlocks are either totally resisted or not at all, while Wizards will face mobs immune to one or the other, never both.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You left one out tho, The Vision of Vox. Very high resistance to noxious, immunity to cold. Considered the hardest raid mob in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adara Frostborne, L50 Wizard of Najena</DIV>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seth01 wrote:<BR> <P>Im a lvl 49 warlock. Never looked back.</P> <P>Anyway, we get a big nuke at 23. Yey!</P> <P>We get a big nuke at 37 yey!</P> <P>We get an AoE at 50.... booo! So wat if it does 5000dmg or watever. You shoot that thing off you have 3 mobs on ya in 2secs. </P> <P>Playing with a wizard friend who is lvl 46 or 47 we were pretty close in dmg. He would sometimes outdo me, i would sometimes outdo him. But the main thing i noticed is i took aggro most of the time.</P> <P>I dont get were the complaining comes from.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm sorry but you don't know what your talking about. You're complaining about a spell (devastation) that you've never even cast. As a level 50 warlock with a master 1 of devastation I can tell you the spell is absolutely amazing. To my knowledge, it is by far the most powerful damage spell in the game,  even if it makes the caster an aggro magnet. There's no way I would trade this spell for ice comet and if you had ever used it you would know what I'm talking about. AEs are used all the time on raids and this is the big daddy of the AE spells.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Seth]

Oh yer, im sure ill love the spell aswell. In my mind though id prob just rather a DD spell for a change. The last good DD spell is getting close to 13lvls ago now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[papabear0]

<DIV>__________________________________________________ _________________________<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tyrant Invictus wrote:<BR> <P>I'm a level 50 wizard.</P> <P>I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.</P> <P>I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok then post some parses (from raid zones), so we can all laugh continuously at the warlocks in your guild with all app 1 spells...</P> <P>Or better yet point you out for being the liar u are. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________</P> <P> </P> <P>sadly, even with app 1 spells.  they still will outdamage you.</P></DIV>

[Alfgand]

<P>Yes the trend continues.</P> <P>To those who think there are no problems and say that they constantly out damage Warlocks, I ask, "Can I have some of whatever you are drinking."</P> <P>Forget about what you think you perceive. Just look at all the posts on both the Wizard and Warlock boards.</P> <P>How many Warlocks are complaining that Wizards are out DPS'ing them. Ah, ummm, NONE !</P> <P>Gee, well I guess most Warlocks are happy with their DPS, at least as compared to Wizards.</P> <P>Sorcerer Vs other class DPS is a completely different issue.</P> <P>Now, read the Wizard board. Ok, how many Wizards are concerned with the Warlock vs Wizard DPS issue?</P> <P>Humm, A ton of Wizards are !</P> <P>Why are some Wizards happy?</P> <P>  1. I suspect that many 'happy" Wizards are really Warlocks protecting their turf.</P> <P> 2. I also suspect some are so in love with themselves and must see themselves as better than the rest of us.</P> <P> 3. Some may really be better than a bunch of Warlocks.</P> <P><U>But it is obvious to anyone who actually reads these forums in depth, that the majority of Wizards here see a definite, real, aggravating problem.</U></P> <P>We are not all whiners, loons or buffoons!</P> <P>There are many enlightened Warlocks who post here who agree with us. I salute them !</P> <P>Wizards are not complely broken, we just need some fixing. Does SoE hate us? No, it does not make sense for a company to hate its customers. Do they need convincing there is a problem? Yep !</P> <P>Anyone who wants to play a Wizard should continue to do so. Don't give into dispair. We most likley will get fixed sometime. (I hope. lol) We are still a fun class to play.  Wizards are still much cooler than any Warlock ! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>But while we have some problems, we all must make sure we do not call for any 'nerfing' of Warlocks because what comes around, sure as SolRo goes around !</P> <P>We need to stand up, shout out for our fixes but stand firm with our brother Warlocks and try to advance the cause for all Sorcerers. Warlocks and Wizards combined have a much louder voice than just one or the other.</P><p>Message Edited by Alfgand on <span class=date_text>07-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:35 PM</span>

[Sotha]

<DIV>Hey seth! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Wizard are not broke, I can do more than enough damage at my level, most of these complaints apart from raid targets are unfounded. I find that as seth said, when i was grouped with him he would get alot more aggro than me even though our dps was almost equal. In a raid im sure that an area attack nuke will make you the tanks worst enemy. Personally im happy with the wizard how it is, i dont really have anything to complain about, apart from the immunities and resists on raids. The combat changes will make everything different, so there is no point complaining about it anymore when something is going to be done about it, its only a matter of when</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Sothars on <span class=date_text>07-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:58 PM</span>

[SalBlu]

<P>Well... I know that i've made myself known quite a bit as a "sellout" or "not knowing what i'm talking about" in some people's views, but I am very happy with my Wizard.  My Wizard is powerful with just about all over her spells at Adept III.  She has good gear, including fabled items and her Prismatic Rod of the Scale.  She works very well aside from a few problems.</P> <P>There are differentiating views on the subject on Wizards and what they should be.  IE, pure Damage Dealer, Damage Dealer with Utility, Pure Utilitarian...  There's a few views anyway.  Most everyone on these boards would like to have some fixes to the class in order to bring us up to par with the performance of the Warlocks.  Having not posted here for a while and really looking at the situation, I cant deny that this would be a nice change for the Wizards.  </P> <P>For me... I currently very much enjoy playing my Wizard.  I'm not unhappy with her performance, though I know that in alot of situations my total damage could be better.  She's very groupable, but she is also very soloable.  I've done some amazing things with her, and in so doing have had a LOT of fun.  I also belong to a raid guild on my server, and am invited to every raid we go on.  Lol... Almost a reserved spot.  Between myself and the other lvl 50 Wizard in my guild, we are never turned down for a raid, and we are always 2 of the first people invited.</P> <P>If we get damage changes down the line that up our total DPS and ability, I am open to it.  For the time being... I'm happy =)  I would like Protoflame to be properly fixed, and maybe given a break on our power costs, but I do enjoy my Wizard Emensely.  Just play to the best of your ability, and until changes are made my suggestion is to just keep a positive outlook on yourself.  I think things will get better soon down the road for those of us that are chomping at the bit for a few changes.</P>

[Lamprey_02]

What I don't get is, people in forum keep complaining about how warlock nil distortion does more damage than wizard ball of flames; yet, when it is pointed out to them that wizard immolation does even more damage, they ignore it and go right on complaining.My guess is that they realize they can't refute this since immolation does indeed do more damage than nil distortion, but that they actually *enjoy* complaining so they prefer to ignore this fact instead.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>What I don't get is, people in forum keep complaining about how warlock nil distortion does more damage than wizard ball of flames; yet, when it is pointed out to them that wizard immolation does even more damage, they ignore it and go right on complaining.<BR><BR>My guess is that they realize they can't refute this since immolation does indeed do more damage than nil distortion, but that they actually *enjoy* complaining so they prefer to ignore this fact instead.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>? do you read the posts comparing the two?</P> <DIV>they are two different spells, they aren't comparable because nil distortion is supposed to be compared to ball of flames.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like most wizards aknowledge there the two classes aren't properly balanced.  I duo with a lvl 46 and 47 warlock all the time and they so far can dish out more dps faster and for less power cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for example, duoing a heroic mob.  I have 3300 power (with warlock stacked buffs) lvl 47 warlock has 3000 power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we end the fights with me at 20-30% and warlock at 40-50%.  warlock always ends up doing 60-65% of the total damage to the heroic mob, yes i know how to play my class and ball of flames/immolation are at adept3 debuffs at adp1</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the problem that I see is that the people who say "i love playing my wizard" are not contributing to getting the class fixed.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I also love playing my wizard, but that doesn't change the imbalance between the two.  The other factor right now is that with the upcomming combat revamp no one knows how we'll turn out so there is no point in disputing the two classes now because it just wont get fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[SalBlu]

<P>If you honestly think that we need to continue to complain you're dead wrong.  We have so many complaint threads throughout the entire EQ2 forums that we've no doubt been heard.  Just because someone doesnt complain daily about their class doesnt mean that they arent concerned with it, and it doesnt equate to contributing to your class.</P> <P>Can I ask also... Are you sure that Immolation and Nil Distortion are not supposed to be compared?  This is an honest question, and as far as I can see, even if they are given to the player at different lvls does not make them non comparable.  It just means that one class gets the nuke later than the other.</P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR> <P>If you honestly think that we need to continue to complain you're dead wrong.  We have so many complaint threads throughout the entire EQ2 forums that we've no doubt been heard.  Just because someone doesnt complain daily about their class doesnt mean that they arent concerned with it, and it doesnt equate to contributing to your class.</P> <P>Can I ask also... Are you sure that Immolation and Nil Distortion are not supposed to be compared?  This is an honest question, and as far as I can see, even if they are given to the player at different lvls does not make them non comparable.  It just means that one class gets the nuke later than the other.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmm, Lets look at this problematic trio, Ball of Flames, Nil Distortion, and immolation. Ball of Flames is a DD spell that hits for a significant amount of damage and is aquired at level 37.  Nil distortion is a DD spell that hits for a significant amount and is aquired at 37.  immolation is a DoT(albeit a short one) aquired at level 38 that happens to do its high damage in a short time.  Nil Distortion is comparable to Ball of FLames for the reasons of its spell type and level aquired. Immolation is simply a wizard spell that a warlock has no equivalent for, just like there is no wizard equivalent for Noxious Bolt.

[stepha72]

<P>I....like the rest of you use to complain about my wizard and how I was being out damaged by warlocks.  While I still feel this is true to some extent it does not upset me anymore.  I just enjoy playing.  I am very happy  if a warlock is in the group with me...Because I know the two of us are going to kick its but and we will have the mob down in no time. </P> <P>I love playing my wizard and now that I have all my spells at adept 3 and ice comet at adept 3 I am doing a ton of damage.  I'm not really sure why I was so hung up on how much damage I was doing and why I was worried that a warlock was outdamaging me.  Who cares I'm still doing a crapload of damage!!!</P> <P>The only time I'm not doing a lot of damage is in raids.....dont yell at me I know its been said before.  In some raids my ice comet used after piercing icicles still does 3600 damage.  In other raids I would say to myself why bother with either one, it is resisted every time.  But I really dont care because I'm needed in other ways.  They need me to give power to the healers.  I really dont feel like a "battery" like some people say because it is not in every raid.  As long as I'm needed and I'm helping out the guild and the mob is being killed does it really matter who is doing the killing?  Do I have to be the one doing the most damage at every raid? </P> <P>I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, wizards do need to be fixed in raids or the mobs need to be less resistant to fire and ice.  But until that time comes find a way to enjoy your wizard.  I was very angry about the whole damage thing but now I really dont care.  I'm having fun with my wizard and still doing a ton of damage and that is all that matters. </P> <P>We all know this spell revamp is coming.  Having new posts about this every other day does not make it come any quicker.  To all of you wizards out there I say find a way to enjoy your wizard.  Don't worry about the warlock next to you....he is your friend and he is helping you kill the mob.  </P> <P>Flame away.  All I'm tying to say is that it is a game find a way to enjoy it or stop playing it!! :smileyhappy:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by stepha72 on <span class=date_text>07-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 AM</span>

[SalBlu]

Good post Stepha.

[Lamprey_02]

If nil distortion and immolation aren't supposed to be compared, why do wizards always compare devastation to ice comet?

[SalBlu]

Its the "Same level of Achievement" thing.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<P>with immolations long casting timer, personally I think it was meant to be an aoe dot, like devistation.  The two should be comparable if immolation was aoe.</P> <P>then it would even out the spell line up.</P> <P> </P> <P>warlocks would get a high dmg dd nil distortion at 37, we would get high dmg aoe dot at 39 immolation</P> <P>and it would balance out at 50 with warlocks getting their high dmg aoe dot devistation, and wizards getting our high dmg dd ice comet.</P> <P> </P> <P>my.02</P>

[Lamprey_02]

It's not devistation. It's devastation. I hate to be petty, but it really does take away from your argument if you can't spell what you're arguing for...

[stepha72]

Thank you salbluee.....but alas the arguement continues....:smileysad:

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>It's not devistation. It's devastation. I hate to be petty, but it really does take away from your argument if you can't spell what you're arguing for...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>thats a very petty thing to bring up.  It makes no difference If spelling > me. 

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalBluee wrote:<BR> <P>If you honestly think that we need to continue to complain you're dead wrong.  We have so many complaint threads throughout the entire EQ2 forums that we've no doubt been heard.  Just because someone doesnt complain daily about their class doesnt mean that they arent concerned with it, and it doesnt equate to contributing to your class.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I completely agree with you.  You did not understand my point in my post.  There have been enough threads on wiz/war,  however when a noob pops up another one, the wizards who go around saying all is hunkydory, is not helping the situation.<BR>

[Lamprey_02]

Well, thing is, first impressions count. If someone comes across a post that's rife with spelling errors (especially when a word is repeatably misspelled, which means the poster didn't make a typo) they tend to assume whoever posted isn't very bright. People will then gloss over the arguments figuring someone who isn't very bright isn't able to make a very good argument.Therefore, spelling > you does make a difference. This is the way most people work; and since you're not an idiot, why give them that impression in the first place?

[SalBlu]

<DIV><FONT color=#66cc00><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3>I completely agree with you.  You did not understand my point in my post.  There have been enough threads on wiz/war,  however when a noob pops up another one, the wizards who go around saying all is hunkydory, is not helping the situation.</FONT></EM></STRONG><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00><FONT color=#ffffff>Ah... yeah... I prolly took your post in the wrong context.  Sorry about that.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc00><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3>Well, thing is, first impressions count. If someone comes across a post that's rife with spelling errors (especially when a word is repeatably misspelled, which means the poster didn't make a typo) they tend to assume whoever posted isn't very bright. People will then gloss over the arguments figuring someone who isn't very bright isn't able to make a very good argument.<BR><BR>Therefore, spelling > you does make a difference. This is the way most people work; and since you're not an idiot, why give them that impression in the first place?</FONT></EM></STRONG> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Excuse me, but spelling capability has no take in this conversation.  Just because the guy excused a letter "a" with an "i" does not warrant you to jump down his throat.  He spelled one word wrong.  Give it a rest.  He still got his point across.</FONT></DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>Well, thing is, first impressions count. If someone comes across a post that's rife with spelling errors (especially when a word is repeatably misspelled, which means the poster didn't make a typo) they tend to assume whoever posted isn't very bright. People will then gloss over the arguments figuring someone who isn't very bright isn't able to make a very good argument.<BR><BR>Therefore, spelling > you does make a difference. This is the way most people work; and since you're not an idiot, why give them that impression in the first place?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I understand your point, and agree.</P> <P> </P> <P>However, this is an internet forum, this isn't my job application.  As such, I dont have to audit all my text.  If I have a typo, or spelling/grammar error, I frankly dont care, because i will still get my point across.</P> <P> </P> <P>also, be very careful generalizing your single opinion to the opinions of many.  This is what is known as flawed logic.  Just because you think it doesn't make me look intelligent doesn't make everyone else think so too.</P>

[Lamprey_02]

If you're in school, ask your teacher if consistently misspelling words makes one look dumber than they might otherwise be. If you're at work, ask your boss the same question. I wonder if either will agree this is flawed logic.

[SalBlu]

<P>This is neither work nor school.  This is an internet forum for use of connecting to the community, stating one's views on the game, and asking questions.  All he did was mispell a word, and was trying to put forth a bit of information.  You didnt have to make him feel like a [Removed for Content].</P> <P>If it's such a big deal, I felt my eyes start to bleed when I read this post here:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=9595#M9595" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=9595#M9595</A></P> <DIV>It says:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><STRONG><FONT size=3>"Found them in there, thanks... can't believe I haven't <FONT color=#ff6600>tought </FONT>of that sooner, I ran around everywhere looking for it for 2 days!"</FONT></STRONG></EM></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT size=3></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>/sarcasm<FONT color=#66ff00>ON</FONT></DIV> <DIV>What is that word there?  Tenth word in from the beginning.  Tought?  I dont know what a "tought" is.</DIV> <DIV>/sarcasm<FONT color=#ff0000>OFF</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See... this is nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking.  Did I understand what you were trying to say?  Sure I did.  Did you understand what IllusiveThoughts was trying to say?  Most likely, yes.  Granted yours was just a slip of the finger, but in the context of both posts, they are easily understood to what was really trying to be said.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give him a break.</DIV>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>It's not devistation. It's devastation. I hate to be petty, but it really does take away from your argument if you can't spell what you're arguing for...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Spelling is the last bastion of someone who has lost the arguement. As is calling someone a "noob" or a "child". After you've been around the forums a while, you'll see people consistently resort to those tactics when they have nothing left to say about the actual topic being discussed.</P> <P>Its doesn't happen as much anymore, but calling people a "[Removed for Content]" is another sure fire way of losing the arguement.</P>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>If you're in school, ask your teacher if consistently misspelling words makes one look dumber than they might otherwise be. If you're at work, ask your boss the same question. I wonder if either will agree this is flawed logic.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I happen to know someone with an IQ of over 180 and he frequently miss spells "the" as "teh"</P> <P>according to your logic that makes him look dumb? Does he care that he miss spells it? no.  Do I think hes a [Removed for Content] for doing it? yes! (but dont tell him I said so...:smileyvery-happy:  j/k )</P> <P>seriously, now we are arguing just to argue.  It's pointless to continue this discussion, so how about we both agree to disagree and move on?  you can continue to point out my spelling/grammar errors, and I'll ignore it.  Agreed?</P>

[Skwor]

<P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>While I agree, spelling on forums usually means very little, I just felt compelled to post about the IQ thing. IQ has very little value for anything. If you doubt me just perform a search on several very famous thinkers (<A href="http://www.ishipress.com/einstein.htm" target=_blank>Einstein</A>, <A href="http://www.happychild.org.uk/acc/tpr/gtm/0499edis.htm" target=_blank>Edison</A>, etc) you will find a very interesting past. Oddly enough before their "savant moment" which thrust them into fame they were thought of as basically dumb, on at least one occasion in thier life, funny how they both list as geniuses now.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>IQ has never been an effective measure of anyone’s ability or prowess of intellect. It’s just a contrived method of determining what someone knows at a certain age and comparing that to a statistical average to determine a norm. Follow this <A href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:IQ" target=_blank>link</A></FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> to see some fascinating definitions. One of my favorites is </FONT><FONT color=#ffcc66><I>“an abstract and simplified measure of intelligence. Since science has yet to adequately define the concept of "intelligence," so-called "IQ tests" are of questionable value.” <SPAN> </SPAN></I></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>We just do not know enough about Thought, Intellect, Drive, Motivation, Perseverance, Determination, Ingenuity, Adaptability, etc… to really isolate and label someone as “smart” from an IQ value; or for that matter, any test designed to determine how smart someone is.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>On a side note, there are several articles that attempt to "debunk" Einstein as failing school or being a poor student. These articles usually gloss over and look at the big picture. For example they will state emphatically that he never failed school, true. However he did fail an entrance exam (which resulted in his having to take some secondary education) and was not a stand out student on many occasions. The point I am making is when he started, no one expected him to change mankind, he was not the “A” list of scholars in his day. He wrote his groundbreaking papers during the miracle year of 1905 as a patent clerk, not a university professor!</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Skwor on <span class=date_text>07-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:39 PM</span>

[Zcenicx]

<DIV>This discussion is pointless for one simple reason.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A Wizard is not a Warlock, a Warlock is not a Wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2 Wizards = 75% efficiency since DoTs and effects do not stack.</DIV> <DIV>2 Warlocks = 66% efficiency for the same reason but worse.</DIV> <DIV>1 Wizard + 1 Warlock = 100% efficiency because everything stacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same with 2 Wardens vs 1 Warden + 1 Fury. </DIV> <DIV>Same with 2 Templars vs 1 Templar + 1 Inquis.</DIV> <DIV>A Wizard will never be turned down for a Warlock in a raid, but maybe for another Wizard.</DIV>

[Nerd65]

My 2 cents: most of you have probably played other MMORPG's so you know this topic is nothing new.  Weither it's wiz/war, terakasi/bountyhunter, etc. this type of debate has always existed and probably always will.  The problem imho is that be it Sony or whoever, ALWAYS takes the easy road.  Instead of fixing Wizards they will either nerf Warlocks or mess up the mobs, the easy way out.  I agree with those who say fix Wizards and not complain about Warlocks, because, in the end and i've seen this on every single one of the MMORPG's that i've played that once they start swinging the nerf bat, they never know when/where to stop.   As to the resist against Wizzy spells i'm hoping that the new expansions will have mobs that are more vulnerable to our attacks, however, i don't believe ^^ mobs of any sort should be soloable. 

[Asterra]

Ahh, but the important difference between those past debates and this one, as you seem to have failed to notice, is that Warlocks KNOW they are the best and there are really very few Wizards who honestly believe the class has no problems, and in almost all those cases, the best they can offer is, "I love my class"... A pity that the early rumblings about our "fixes" are very bad indeed.

[Skwor]

I perosnally expect a long dry season for wizards. No matter a new game is on the horizon and I suspect it will provide a much more open gameplay style and actually be designed for gamers, not weekend warroirs and casuals. The level of control in EQ 2 from trivial loot code to no lev ( this game has gone backward from functionality in eq 1, name one item where it has advanced a non linear game style) show eq 2 to actually be a step back in game advancement. Other then the graphics the rest has so far left a lot to be desired. As far as fantasy goes, more often I feel like a rat finding a piece of cheese in a one solution maze box. Definatly a bit of over control here, heaven forbid a player actually break out and find a different way to play. So far, very little has been allowed to vary from the designers pristine plan of play. /yawn