Wizards and Ports: Will the Wizards ever regain the ability to port?

[Zapo_Stormlight]

<DIV>I would so like the Wizards to regain the abilty to port themselves and others.  I know this is one of the main things that attracted me to the class in the first place...way back in May of 1999.  I had to play a wizard.  I know Druids got better ports initally but Wizards overall ended up with the best ports eventually.  I would love to see the class once again regain that abilty that drew me to the class.  I remember vowing to port as many people as I could from one side of the game to the other for free the day I gained the abilty to port others.  I remember that run between the main cities.  In fact it soon became a requirement to do the run from Qeynos to Freeport to become a member of my guild.  Yet I still loved the abilty to take others from one point to another.  I know many of my fellow wizards began to dislike the idea of becoming a Taxi class but I always enjoyed it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh well...its just another wish...of a lowely wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I will continue to wish for my abilty to port again.  I cant wait for the new nuking abilties to be granted to the wizard class soon.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nitefl]

This would rock, but then every class would need an extra utility. To lessen our utility, maybe a port spell that could only take us to Nek or TS docks perhaps, but these spells would be very costly (1pp?) to make it fair since you're saving money from the EFP/qeynos dock bells.. just some thoughts.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zapo_Stormlight wrote:<BR> <DIV>I would so like the Wizards to regain the abilty to port themselves and others.  I know this is one of the main things that attracted me to the class in the first place...way back in May of 1999.  I had to play a wizard.  I know Druids got better ports initally but Wizards overall ended up with the best ports eventually.  I would love to see the class once again regain that abilty that drew me to the class.  I remember vowing to port as many people as I could from one side of the game to the other for free the day I gained the abilty to port others.  I remember that run between the main cities.  In fact it soon became a requirement to do the run from Qeynos to Freeport to become a member of my guild.  Yet I still loved the abilty to take others from one point to another.  I know many of my fellow wizards began to dislike the idea of becoming a Taxi class but I always enjoyed it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh well...its just another wish...of a lowely wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I will continue to wish for my abilty to port again.  I cant wait for the new nuking abilties to be granted to the wizard class soon.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Correct, a wizard without ports is like a cleric without heals.</P> <P>Every class has some form of damage dealing ability. EVERY CLASS! DPS is not a class defining ability. Wizards simply have high DPS due to low defenses and no healing.</P> <P>I think every class should have something cool and unique to them. </P> <P>Class envy is far more desireable of a problem then class homogeny.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[AkashaSh]

<DIV>i would love to see this happen...every other game i have had portals.....why not in this game? would be very nice and i would feel a bit more usefull....evac is nice but it is not the same i would lose the evac and gain the portal and be very happy!!!!</DIV>

[GunnaGetSome]

<DIV>I just hit lvl 42, and have had evac (Depart) for some time now.  It's a nice skill for getting us out of trouble, but does not in any way define the magical empowerment a wizard should hold...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I totally agree that wizards should have the ability to port to different zones.  And be able to port others.  I'm sure a fee or some kind of purchased item could be created to activate such a power.  Anyways, just my 2 cents...</DIV>

[TheLo]

As a Walock (Putting up Flame Shield) would also like to see our class have ports, too. Why on earth do we constantly have to walk everywhere. Maybe I'm just lazy, but hey. <div></div>

[Stavenh]

To add ports now, would mean taking away what wizards currently have. I know some people wouldn't mind losing stuff for ports, but it's not so great as you may think.Porting only helps you move around and others. Yes, outside of groups and such, this may seem helpful, but it doesn't offer anything for what the game is really about, killing mobs and taking thier loot. I would not want to lose my power heals or transfers for ports. I would not want to lose my buffs for ports. I would not want to lose my stuns/stifles for ports. There is nothing I would want to lose for my ports.And yes, if they added ports to wizards, every other class would have to get a new secondary function. The number of spells each class gets is as important as what they do. If ports are added as part of expansions, that means we would get ports, and less of other spells. Some of those spells we wouldn't get could easily be nukes. I remember often how in EQ1, when an expansion would come out, wizards would get shafted in the quality of thier spells. They would get the ports, but then thier other spells would be really weak, since they were getting 5 spells, while other classes got 2. 3 ports, self, group and translocate versions, a vision buff, and then a average nuke. Ports would creat something that Sony is trying to avoid. A way for players to make money that doesn't involve crafting or adventuring. And yes, wizards would charge people for teleporting, and players would pay. Besides, with evac, wizards can generally get from city to city in 6-8 minutes. 10 without.I've timed it.And 60 silver after 40 isn't alot, if you take some time during the week to make some money, to get to the other zones, since only the bells that cost money are the city ones.

[AkashaSh]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc00ff><STRONG><FONT size=2>to me it is not about the money! and evac is on a 15 min timer so it would take a bit still to get cross zones......now i dont see y it would have to to take from our toons it could be a quest or a fun type spell that we had to pay a good amount to get and like someone said it could take comp. to cast it....and i would be more than happy to give up evac for it! half the time i can not get it off when in trouble cause the mobs interupt me!dont get me wrong i am happy to have is vs nothing but i would much rather have ports!! in AC1 and wow the mage types get ports i feel i should get them in this game...in wow you have to train every spell you get and ports are costly and you have to by the ports to each town for a hefty price then you have a costly comp you have to buy to cast it so it is nice to have and is very costly....that would be better then none i think, would give me the option to buy them if i felt the need! and it would not be a combat related spell so no need to take away from combat spells<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc00ff></FONT> [you can not cast during combat]...as far as giving other classes something to make everyone happy they could just give it to us during the combat revamp and i dont see how it should be a big deal.... it will benifit everyone if your in a group with a mage and the group wants to get some where fast i am sure the whole group would be happy to use the mages port no one is going to say no to that i am sure...</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>AkashaShaw wrote:<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc00ff><STRONG><FONT size=2>to me it is not about the money! and evac is on a 15 min timer so it would take a bit still to get cross zones......now i dont see y it would have to to take from our toons it could be a quest or a fun type spell that we had to pay a good amount to get and like someone said it could take comp. to cast it....and i would be more than happy to give up evac for it! half the time i can not get it off when in trouble cause the mobs interupt me!dont get me wrong i am happy to have is vs nothing but i would much rather have ports!! in AC1 and wow the mage types get ports i feel i should get them in this game...in wow you have to train every spell you get and ports are costly and you have to by the ports to each town for a hefty price then you have a costly comp you have to buy to cast it so it is nice to have and is very costly....that would be better then none i think, would give me the option to buy them if i felt the need! and it would not be a combat related spell so no need to take away from combat spells<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc00ff></FONT> [you can not cast during combat]...as far as giving other classes something to make everyone happy they could just give it to us during the combat revamp and i dont see how it should be a big deal.... it will benifit everyone if your in a group with a mage and the group wants to get some where fast i am sure the whole group would be happy to use the mages port no one is going to say no to that i am sure...</FONT></FONT></STRONG></DIV><hr></blockquote>It doesn't matter if it's not about money to you. To many players it would be.Bells make getting around easy enough as it is. The longest run in the game currently is from Qeynos to Freeport. On foot, without using evac, or paying for a ticket, it takes roughly 15 minutes. Zone into Antonica, take a griffon to the steppes station, zone to TS, run to docks, zone to Nek, run to CL entrance, zone, run and take Griffon, run to CL docks, ring bell, in city. With a horse, about 10 minutes with evac about 7 minutes. Seven minutes for a wizard with evac and horse to get from one city to the other. Yes, I have timed this, because evac was down, and I wanted to know if just running from one to the next would be faster then waiting 15 minutes for evac to come back up. It was.Ports won't save more then a minute, at best. If there was ports, where do you think they would end up, the same spot you probablly zone into anyway. All the ruined wizards spires are in the middle of zones. The EF one is underwater, the Lavastorm is surrounded by mobs. See, that's how wizards were able to port. Using the spires, and from what the lore says, the power of the spires came from the moon Luclin, and when it was destroyed, so was the power of the spires, and the ability of wizards to harness them.Getting around isn't hard, even if you don't want to buy a horse/totems or ticket. The amount of time to actually get someone is not an inconvience in this version as it was in EQ1. Unless you are have tons of lag, and take 5 minutes to zone. But that isn't the fault of the game, as more of your computer.

[Asterra]

First off, the reason why they shouldn't add ports: EQ2 doesn't need them.  The world is startlingly small and anywhere one would care to go is just two zones away from a dock, which I feel compelled to add is about as immersion-breaking as they could possibly have made it. However, IF they add teleporting of any kind, it should definitely not be the exclusive domain of Wizards.  At the very least, Warlocks should get the same capabilities.  I like the suggestion that many classes could get the ability to port to different locations, but such a solution would NEED to result in effective equality, for two reasons.  First, if they didn't, we'd have the scenario like the Wizard port to West Karana in EQ1, which was all but a waste of a spell slot compared to what it should have been.  In short, outcries of unfairness.  Second, the whole point of porting is to speed things up, so it would hardly make sense to give different classes different porting locations and then basically require, eg, one Wizard for every group in a raid if they wanted to get to their destination quickly and cleanly without having one guy ferry four groups separately. An obvious solution to that latter quandry would of course be whole-raid porting.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asterra wrote:<BR>First off, the reason why they shouldn't add ports: EQ2 doesn't need them.  The world is startlingly small and anywhere one would care to go is just two zones away from a dock, which I feel compelled to add is about as immersion-breaking as they could possibly have made it.<BR><BR>However, IF they add teleporting of any kind, it should definitely not be the exclusive domain of Wizards.  At the very least, Warlocks should get the same capabilities.  I like the suggestion that many classes could get the ability to port to different locations, but such a solution would NEED to result in effective equality, for two reasons.  First, if they didn't, we'd have the scenario like the Wizard port to West Karana in EQ1, which was all but a waste of a spell slot compared to what it should have been.  In short, outcries of unfairness.  Second, the whole point of porting is to speed things up, so it would hardly make sense to give different classes different porting locations and then basically require, eg, one Wizard for every group in a raid if they wanted to get to their destination quickly and cleanly without having one guy ferry four groups separately.<BR><BR>An obvious solution to that latter quandry would of course be whole-raid porting.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>EQ2 doesn't NEED more then 1 class. This is a game. The variety of skills and abilities are designed to add 'flavor" to the game. Ports add a great "magical" flavor.</P> <P>I would agree there is no reason that ports NEED to be a wizard only thing. I'd say make them a Conjurers and Sorcerers thing.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those people that are worried about other people charging for ports, I would like to respond that it is very possible to add ports to the game WITHOUT making ports essential for normal gameplay. In EQ1 pre PoP, ports were very much needed for normal gameplay. So was the Clarity buff line, Symbol buff line, and the occasional Rez. As I remeber, players were charging for these buffs also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[AkashaSh]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>i am not saying i dont agree that mage types would charge for this but dont really see why that would matter like it would kill anyone if a mage made some money to port ppl around.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>and i have the fastest of the horses [not the spirt one] you can get i love it and it does get me around but it is not about the time it takes to get from point A to point B i am sure you timed it and that is great you can make it in 7-15 i am sure i can but i am a mage dang it i want my ports!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>i am so sure it would not be hard to work it into the lore....you could make it a world event to fix up the ports and say mages have found a new way to use them or say some dude has been working on it sence the moon was destroyed and found a knew why to use the ports...not to hard <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>and as far as zone times or lag i dont have to deal with that but does not really matter alll i am saying is it would be nice every other game gives mages portals what is so differet about this game? even if it takes 7-15 min to get from point A to point B i would save that time in game at least and it would be fun to have the portals.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>warlock and all mage types should have these ports.....would not see y it should just be wizzies but should only be mage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>mages should have ports dont really see how it would take from the game and y it would really be that big of a deal to put them in....i am sure it will never happen but i can dream can't i</FONT></DIV>

[Stavenh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AkashaShaw wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>i am not saying i dont agree that mage types would charge for this but dont really see why that would matter like it would kill anyone if a mage made some money to port ppl around.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>and i have the fastest of the horses [not the spirt one] you can get i love it and it does get me around but it is not about the time it takes to get from point A to point B i am sure you timed it and that is great you can make it in 7-15 i am sure i can but i am a mage dang it i want my ports!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>i am so sure it would not be hard to work it into the lore....you could make it a world event to fix up the ports and say mages have found a new way to use them or say some dude has been working on it sence the moon was destroyed and found a knew why to use the ports...not to hard <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>and as far as zone times or lag i dont have to deal with that but does not really matter alll i am saying is it would be nice every other game gives mages portals what is so differet about this game? even if it takes 7-15 min to get from point A to point B i would save that time in game at least and it would be fun to have the portals.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>warlock and all mage types should have these ports.....would not see y it should just be wizzies but should only be mage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>mages should have ports dont really see how it would take from the game and y it would really be that big of a deal to put them in....i am sure it will never happen but i can dream can't i</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You wouldn't be the one having to deal and read all the posts from every other single class about how unfair it is that Sony gives wizards ports which allows them to make money porting, when they don't have anything. Even if it was all mages, getting to port, the same thing would happen.</P> <P>There is also the consideration of what other function the bells support. Removing money from the game. For the world to not become bloated with money, it has to leave the game. The bells, rent mail and stuff that can only be purchased via NPC do that. </P> <P>It's not hard to get around, it's not time consumming, the even made boats that can be fun and maybe offer something in exchange. </P> <P>But ports, there is no need for them in this world. It takes away a need removal of money from the world, and it would take away getting better utilities or nukes for whatever class got ports. <BR></P>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR> <P>You wouldn't be the one having to deal and read all the posts from every other single class about how unfair it is that Sony gives wizards ports which allows them to make money porting, when they don't have anything. Even if it was all mages, getting to port, the same thing would happen.</P> <P>There is also the consideration of what other function the bells support. Removing money from the game. For the world to not become bloated with money, it has to leave the game. The bells, rent mail and stuff that can only be purchased via NPC do that. </P> <P>It's not hard to get around, it's not time consumming, the even made boats that can be fun and maybe offer something in exchange. </P> <P>But ports, there is no need for them in this world. It takes away a need removal of money from the world, and it would take away getting better utilities or nukes for whatever class got ports. <BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) You don't HAVE to read anyone's post. If your a forum junkie, thats no ones problem but your own.</P> <P>2) Mages were lured into giving up some really cool abilities with the false promise of DPS. This is a false promise because the ability to damage is so intrinsic to gameplay that mages can never be properly compensated with damage dealing ability alone without it unbalancing the game. Enchanters have good mez.</P> <P>3) Its no more "weird" that Summoners/Conjurors should have ports then it is weird that priests should have heals.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>4) Class Envy is a MUCH better problem to have then class homogeny!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5></FONT> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>To add ports now, would mean taking away what wizards currently have. I know some people wouldn't mind losing stuff for ports, but it's not so great as you may think.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Dude, I think EVERYONE but you knows that wizards were terribly implimented in EQ2. The debate is over. You don't give up abilites when you've already been seriously short-changed. When you finally get SOE's ear to have your class problems fixed, you ask for everything you think is fair. Let them decide if its too much. Thats their job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>Ports are 1 little thing they can do to make the class better. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>Fixing Resist issues and mid-upper level DPS is another. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please realize that wizards will never given insane DPS, its just to unbalancing. The class needs to be fleshed out with abilites that are wizardly. Otherwise, you are nothing more then an unarmoured warrior with a magical sword.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>We get a mezz, self-stun mana feeds and evac WHO NEEDS PORTS?</P> <P>/sarcasm OFF</P> <P>Pfft, a port would atleast assauge the bloodthirsty wizards who post here and play the game, botling up their rage silently.  And for those that think it would be unbalancing, just enjoy it for god's sake.</P>

[tass]

whats the matter with an unarmored warrior with a magical sword, that is in fact what a wizard is. a wizard and worlock {because in terms they r both really the same, {only in most books 1 is usually eveil and 1 is good} but they r both supposed to have high power, without raw power and damage to kill the enemy or mob what the heck is a wizard or worlock besides a weakling? Im not saying we should get high all mighty spells to kill 6 lv's above us in 1 or 2 hits but to at least have a chance to survive is a pretty fair give dont u agree? <div></div>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holystones wrote:<BR>whats the matter with an unarmored warrior with a magical sword, that is in fact what a wizard is. a wizard and worlock {because in terms they r both really the same, {only in most books 1 is usually eveil and 1 is good} but they r both supposed to have high power, without raw power and damage to kill the enemy or mob what the heck is a wizard or worlock besides a weakling?<BR>Im not saying we should get high all mighty spells to kill 6 lv's above us in 1 or 2 hits but to at least have a chance to survive is a pretty fair give dont u agree?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The problem with a wizard being an "unarmoured warrior with a magical sword" is that its a short cut to actually creating a Role Playing class that "feels" like the class you are playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a role playing game first and foremost. The game should be designed to allow these classes to exist in this imaginary world. The currect system behaves as if the classes were built to fit a "generic" combat engine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me put the question to you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is truely wizardly about the wizard? Every class in the game does damage. Every single one. I've played a templar alt and now I am leveling a pally alt. Quite frankly, I am shocked at how much damage those classes do. They are not weak. With the right HO's my templar has nasty DPS. This is not a "nerf templars" or "nerf pallys" message. Those classes play well. They feel less generic too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what is wizardly about a wizard?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stavenh]

<P>Um, so many of the people on this thread are the same that always say wizards are about DPS, blowing thing us, Huge nukes, and so on. You keep saying that you picked wizards to be a DPS class.</P> <P>Porting has nothing to do with DPS, so it has nothing to do with the main function of the class. </P> <P>Porting won't make wizards better, or more needed. If you feel that everyone picks warlocks over wizards for damage, why would they pick a wizard if we got porting? Because we can shave 3 minutes off of getting to a zone? Save them 60 silver.</P> <P>Right.</P> <P> </P>

[tass]

hmm i guess when u look at it that way, there really is nothing wizardy about a wizard. I mean ive seen clerics up there blsting away just as good as well as palidens {have 1 myself} man i really hope this update fixes all this stuff or at least makes the mage class interesting. <div></div>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR> <P>Um, so many of the people on this thread are the same that always say wizards are about DPS, blowing thing us, Huge nukes, and so on. You keep saying that you picked wizards to be a DPS class.</P> <P>Porting has nothing to do with DPS, so it has nothing to do with the main function of the class.</P> <P>Porting won't make wizards better, or more needed. If you feel that everyone picks warlocks over wizards for damage, why would they pick a wizard if we got porting? Because we can shave 3 minutes off of getting to a zone? Save them 60 silver.</P> <P>Right.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN THE GAME DOES DAMAGE. Every one. Without exception.</P> <P>Wizards in 1) Other games, 2) EQ1, 3) Books, 4) Movies, are about alot more then just DPS. SOE decided to take away everything but DPS from a wizard so it could fit their generic combat model. Can you blame people for expecting the sky when all they have left is the belief that they do more DPS then other classes?</P> <P>Ports won't make a wizard better at nuking, but they will make them more wizardly.<BR></P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>For our class, sorcerer, we do second rate DPS, our procs are also second rate.  We got from lvl 23-37 without a big nuke unless you pciked Westfend's ice spear or bought Ice Flame at 35..(use /respec and take it if you didn't) .  THen it's a pretty long way to 50 for a good straight up nuke(although immolation isn't bad in it's own right).</P> <P>Give us a port and we will be able to take our nifty travel spell and stop pleading for DPS(which is pretty much what matters msot in this game after your group/raid's healing capability).</P> <P> </P>

[Dae]

Ports for Wizards and Druids would be nice, especially if they introduced them with a nice GM event. However the world we're playing in now is a lot smaller than that of the original EQ1 (in terms of how long it takes to get places as it stands). Where exactly would you port to? By the time you got to pre-PoP EQ1 you had five (?) continents and a moon with a semi-useful (but still time consuming if you didn't get there right on time) transit system via the nexus. Ports were a genuine time saver. I just don't see the same degree of usefulness in EQ2. Get rid of the mariner's bells and re-introduce the "sit around and hope you don't miss it while afk" boat system and then you'll have a need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <div></div>

[Stavenh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daerv wrote:<BR>Ports for Wizards and Druids would be nice, especially if they introduced them with a nice GM event. However the world we're playing in now is a lot smaller than that of the original EQ1 (in terms of how long it takes to get places as it stands). Where exactly would you port to? By the time you got to pre-PoP EQ1 you had five (?) continents and a moon with a semi-useful (but still time consuming if you didn't get there right on time) transit system via the nexus. Ports were a genuine time saver. I just don't see the same degree of usefulness in EQ2. Get rid of the mariner's bells and re-introduce the "sit around and hope you don't miss it while afk" boat system and then you'll have a need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Which is why I hope they never get rid of the bells. Not so we can have ports, but so EVERYONE doesn't have to sit around waiting AFK for a boat to come every 15 minutes.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daerv wrote:<BR>Ports for Wizards and Druids would be nice, especially if they introduced them with a nice GM event. However the world we're playing in now is a lot smaller than that of the original EQ1 (in terms of how long it takes to get places as it stands). Where exactly would you port to? By the time you got to pre-PoP EQ1 you had five (?) continents and a moon with a semi-useful (but still time consuming if you didn't get there right on time) transit system via the nexus. Ports were a genuine time saver. I just don't see the same degree of usefulness in EQ2. Get rid of the mariner's bells and re-introduce the "sit around and hope you don't miss it while afk" boat system and then you'll have a need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There are many things that add to the sense of immersion in a MMORPG.</P> <P>One is scale. The idea that some things are near and some things are far is important. In the quest to add convenence, EQ2 has made a world that feels like an apartment building where every zone is a simple elevator ride away.</P> <P>BTW, Lets not forget that the 2 city idea was not solely designed as a hub for instant travel to far parts of the world. One of the problems with EQ1 was that as people leveled they left their starter cities which were largely abandoned. I am pretty confident that the 2 city plan was as much to maintain a populated city areas as it was to act as a travel hub.</P> <P>There are ways to speed up travel that don't feel as clunky and out of place as the current boat system either.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyhow back to the point. If ports would not serve as a huge advantage, why so much fear that Summoners/Conjurors would have to give up DPS in exchange?</P> <P> </P> <P>PS. First, I leveled a wizard. Next, I leveled a Templar. Now, I am leveling a Pally. Of the 3, the wizard is so obviously underpowered, I can't help but laugh to myself. The EQ2 wizard is like buying a car and finding the dealer tried to give you only 3 wheels. You don't have to "negotiate" to get the 4th wheel. You should expect it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Night Walk]

<P><FONT color=#ff0000>I, as you can see from the number of post i have made am new to this form in the posting sense anyway. I was big brother for a while just watching you all talk. But it has finally gotten to the point where I feel I must say something. I completely believe that the wizard class needs some fixing. While I would love ports beyond explanation, if people are really going to complain that much then, fine, do not give them to us, but please give us more DPS. While I feel a deal a fair amount of damage, I expected to deal huge damage when I created Izipe (my wiz). </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Thank you for allowing me to express my thoughts and I look forward to your comments fellow Wizards</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>/bow</FONT></P>

[brow27]

<P>Argh, the whining here is really starting to get to me!  Wizard is a good class!  Just because raid mobs are buffed against our attacks right now, and warlocks do a bit more damage, that doesn't make us less of a class.  I love playing my Wizard, and groups love having me for my DPS.  NEVER ONCE have I encountered a group that said "well we'd rather have a warlock because they have better dps".  I have 4 gigantic nukes (and I'm not even 50 yet), an insanely powerful root, evac, the ability to cannibalize very well, the ability to transfer power, etc.  The only real issue with being a wizard as I see it is how easily you die.  However, if you stay on your toes you'll usually be fine.  If you want to hit auto-attack and walk away, play a tank! </P> <P>Now I'm not opposed to having more DPS, the more the merrier!  Seriously though, our class is not NEARLY as bad as a lot of you seem to think it is.  I honestly really respect Stavenhams opinions, because he seems to actually understand how to play, as well as being able to post well thought out replies without resorting to flaming and generalizations like many of you do.</P>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>brow27 wrote:<P>Argh, the whining here is really starting to get to me!  Wizard is a good class!  Just because raid mobs are buffed against our attacks right now, and warlocks do a bit more damage, that doesn't make us less of a class.  I love playing my Wizard, and groups love having me for my DPS.  NEVER ONCE have I encountered a group that said "well we'd rather have a warlock because they have better dps".  I have 4 gigantic nukes (and I'm not even 50 yet), an insanely powerful root, evac, the ability to cannibalize very well, the ability to transfer power, etc.  The only real issue with being a wizard as I see it is how easily you die.  However, if you stay on your toes you'll usually be fine.  If you want to hit auto-attack and walk away, play a tank! </P> <P>Now I'm not opposed to having more DPS, the more the merrier!  Seriously though, our class is not NEARLY as bad as a lot of you seem to think it is.  I honestly really respect Stavenhams opinions, because he seems to actually understand how to play, as well as being able to post well thought out replies without resorting to flaming and generalizations like many of you do.</P> <hr></blockquote>I agree with you Brow27. Yes, when you compare our DPS to warlocks, of course warlocks come out on top. Now compare our DPS to other classes. I'm ALWAYS hearing how fast I kill things by others, or how much of a difference it is when I am not around. To the point where the Swashbuckler I am with has macrod his cold debuff to let me know when he uses it, so I can cast ice comet and have it be more effective. The difference between DPS in the two classes is larger then it should be, and coupled with warlocks lower power cost is a noticable difference. But I feel this will be addressed in the revamp. Last night, we went in to the Obelisk of Lost Souls, and did some ring events. After the tank had aggro, I hit the group mobs (anywhere from 5-7 at a time) with Freezing Wind Master 1 (Does more damage then icy wind), Lightening Flash (I think I have the wrong spell), then with Ring of Cold.I then tabbed through the encounter. Piercing Icicles Adept3, Icy Coil Master 1 on a mob, hit tab. Incinerate adept 3 and immolation adept 3 on that mob. Tab, Piercing Icicles and Ice coment on that mob (Dead from Ice Comet sometimes, if not, Piercing would finish them off). Tab and Ball of Flames and Ice Flame on that mob. By then, ring of cold has worn off and the dot takes effect. The tank has been using every area taunt and attack to maintain aggro, and I don't get swamped by the mobs. It's then another tab around using spells to finish off mobs that are close to death.How you use your spells effects your DPS alot. I did much more damage to the encounter then any other person in the group.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> brow27 wrote:<BR> <P>Argh, the whining here is really starting to get to me!  Wizard is a good class!  Just because raid mobs are buffed against our attacks right now, and warlocks do a bit more damage, that doesn't make us less of a class.  I love playing my Wizard, and groups love having me for my DPS.  NEVER ONCE have I encountered a group that said "well we'd rather have a warlock because they have better dps".  I have 4 gigantic nukes (and I'm not even 50 yet), an insanely powerful root, evac, the ability to cannibalize very well, the ability to transfer power, etc.  The only real issue with being a wizard as I see it is how easily you die.  However, if you stay on your toes you'll usually be fine.  If you want to hit auto-attack and walk away, play a tank! </P> <P>Now I'm not opposed to having more DPS, the more the merrier!  Seriously though, our class is not NEARLY as bad as a lot of you seem to think it is.  I honestly really respect Stavenhams opinions, because he seems to actually understand how to play, as well as being able to post well thought out replies without resorting to flaming and generalizations like many of you do.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>I agree with you Brow27. Yes, when you compare our DPS to warlocks, of course warlocks come out on top. Now compare our DPS to other classes. I'm ALWAYS hearing how fast I kill things by others, or how much of a difference it is when I am not around. To the point where the Swashbuckler I am with has macrod his cold debuff to let me know when he uses it, so I can cast ice comet and have it be more effective. <BR><BR>The difference between DPS in the two classes is larger then it should be, and coupled with warlocks lower power cost is a noticable difference. But I feel this will be addressed in the revamp. <BR><BR>Last night, we went in to the Obelisk of Lost Souls, and did some ring events. After the tank had aggro, I hit the group mobs (anywhere from 5-7 at a time) with Freezing Wind Master 1 (Does more damage then icy wind), Lightening Flash (I think I have the wrong spell), then with Ring of Cold.<BR><BR>I then tabbed through the encounter. Piercing Icicles Adept3, Icy Coil Master 1 on a mob, hit tab. Incinerate adept 3 and immolation adept 3 on that mob. Tab, Piercing Icicles and Ice coment on that mob (Dead from Ice Comet sometimes, if not, Piercing would finish them off). Tab and Ball of Flames and Ice Flame on that mob. By then, ring of cold has worn off and the dot takes effect. The tank has been using every area taunt and attack to maintain aggro, and I don't get swamped by the mobs. It's then another tab around using spells to finish off mobs that are close to death.<BR><BR>How you use your spells effects your DPS alot. I did much more damage to the encounter then any other person in the group.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Some people think crab juice is a good drink too. Most people would agree that crab juice is actually not a good drink. Now, people like Steveham will say they drink crab juice better then most, or other people don't know how to drink crab juice, or that the flavor of crab juice get better if your standing or sitting. <FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>The rest of us know its still crab juice.</FONT></P> <P>You can pretend that EQ2 is a well designed game that most people enjoy, but the facts don't support that arguement. EQ2 currently has roughly 250,000 subscribers. EQ1 had roughly 400,000 at its peak. WoW has 2,000,000.</P> <P>EQ2 couldn't even hold on to its player base from the original game in a market that is exploding!!!</P> <P>EQ2 made a bunch of bets and lost.</P> <P>Bet1) Small groups were morally superior to soloers, duelist, and raiding guilds. They actually said EQ2 wasn't the game for you if your not into conventional group play.</P> <P>Bet2) Homogenize all classes to eliminate "class envy" and simplify balancing. Design the game around the smallest number of abilities possible and give them different names.</P> <P>Bet3) PvP was for griefers.</P> <P>Bet4) Tune leveling to require roughly 150-300 kills per level, while keeping quest exp very low.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, I respect your right to like crab juice, but the debate is over. EQ2 is a flop and is getting fixed so that it can survive. The classes were done wrong.</P> <P>The emperor has no clothes! Some of us have been saying it since Beta and some of us would eat dog food if it came in a SOE can.</P> <P>Ports would help make wizards more wizardly. Thats not a bad thing.</P> <P> </P> <P>For the record, I've played other classes. I am now leveling a pally. My opinion of relative value is based on first hand experience. Can you say the same?</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:22 AM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamujin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daerv wrote:<BR>Ports for Wizards and Druids would be nice, especially if they introduced them with a nice GM event. However the world we're playing in now is a lot smaller than that of the original EQ1 (in terms of how long it takes to get places as it stands). Where exactly would you port to? By the time you got to pre-PoP EQ1 you had five (?) continents and a moon with a semi-useful (but still time consuming if you didn't get there right on time) transit system via the nexus. Ports were a genuine time saver. I just don't see the same degree of usefulness in EQ2. Get rid of the mariner's bells and re-introduce the "sit around and hope you don't miss it while afk" boat system and then you'll have a need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There are many things that add to the sense of immersion in a MMORPG.</P> <P>One is scale. The idea that some things are near and some things are far is important. In the quest to add convenence, EQ2 has made a world that feels like an apartment building where every zone is a simple elevator ride away.</P> <P>BTW, Lets not forget that the 2 city idea was not solely designed as a hub for instant travel to far parts of the world. One of the problems with EQ1 was that as people leveled they left their starter cities which were largely abandoned. I am pretty confident that the 2 city plan was as much to maintain a populated city areas as it was to act as a travel hub.</P> <P>There are ways to speed up travel that don't feel as clunky and out of place as the current boat system either.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyhow back to the point. If ports would not serve as a huge advantage, why so much fear that Summoners/Conjurors would have to give up DPS in exchange?</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff33>PS. First, I leveled a wizard. Next, I leveled a Templar. Now, I am leveling a Pally. Of the 3, the wizard is so obviously underpowered, I can't help but laugh to myself. The EQ2 wizard is like buying a car and finding the dealer tried to give you only 3 wheels. You don't have to "negotiate" to get the 4th wheel. You should expect it.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Now isn't that funny, I have wizards, a paladin, and a templar.  The paladin both have functionality in a group and are quite viable solo'ers.  A wizard is not very good at either because his health is so low and is armour is awful, and in groups cold and heat are often the highest resistances on a mob.<BR>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR><BR>Now isn't that funny, I have wizards, a paladin, and a templar.  The paladin both have functionality in a group and are quite viable solo'ers.  A wizard is not very good at either because his health is so low and is armour is awful, and in groups cold and heat are often the highest resistances on a mob.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have a templar too. Do you think wizards have any idea how strong tempar nukes are with HO's?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Stavenh]

KamJust so you know, I don't bother reading your posts anymore. When I see your name, I just scroll on past. Yeah, I see you adress post or reply to mine, but I've decided to stop feeding your obsession and stalking of me by giving your replies. I would rather talk with someone that actually enjoys the game, and actually plays a wizard.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Kam<BR><BR>Just so you know, I don't bother reading your posts anymore. When I see your name, I just scroll on past. Yeah, I see you adress post or reply to mine, but I've decided to stop feeding your obsession and stalking of me by giving your replies. I would rather talk with someone that actually enjoys the game, and actually <FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>ONLY</FONT> plays a wizard. <FONT color=#ffff00>(fixed)</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Translation: I've posted on these forums over 2000 times. When I can't win the arguement by pandering to someone, I'll try and pretend that its unusual that someone would reply to my post. Maybe there is another patch note I can copy here so I can increase my post rating.</P> <P>Sorry bro your the one who said "maybe I play a wizard better then most" and claimed in a PM to be "Stavenham, The BEST wizard EVER". I follow <FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>this forum</FONT>. You can't post here as much as you do and not expect people to respond. I remember alot fo things. If you think its odd that I remember that you claimed "maybe I play a wizard better then most", I don't know what to tell you. Thats a pretty arrogant thing to say. Its kind of memorable.</P> <p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:45 AM</span>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kamujin wrote:<div></div> <p>Wizards in 1) Other games, 2) EQ1, 3) Books, 4) Movies, are about alot more then just DPS. SOE decided to take away everything but DPS from a wizard so it could fit their generic combat model. Can you blame people for expecting the sky when all they have left is the belief that they do more DPS then other classes?</p> <p>Ports won't make a wizard better at nuking, but they will make them more wizardly.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm sorry that your reading comprehension skills are so low that you thought Wizards in EQ2 were going to be like wizards in movies.  Perhaps if you'd actually read and understood the manual, you would have noticed that they clearly state Wizards in EQ2 are primarily nukers.  Besides, I disagree with your premise.  In most popular media, wizards are wise enough to almost never use their real powers, but a wizard can bring out enormous destructive power when necessary.  Sure they've got cute little spells that can stir their coffee for them, but they can also blow the crap out of anything. As for ports, what's the point?  They're completely unnecessary in EQ2 due to the scale of the game world.  While you think it might give you some more flavor, I really don't think the 'average' player will have any interest in finding a wizard to port them instead of just taking a bell.  The result of your suggestion will be Wizards will lose more DPS in order to get port spells that nobody cares about. </span><div></div>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Nacoa wrote:</P> <P>I'm sorry that your reading comprehension skills are so low that you thought Wizards in EQ2 were going to be like wizards in movies.  Perhaps if you'd actually read and understood the manual, you would have noticed that they clearly state Wizards in EQ2 are <FONT size=7>primarily</FONT> nukers.  <FONT color=#ffff00>You seem to lack the reading comprehension to understand your own writing. </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>They also said no soloing and PvP. Guess what? That mistake cost them money too.</FONT></P> <P><BR><SPAN>As for ports, what's the point?  They're completely unnecessary in EQ2 due to the scale of the game world.  While you think it might give you some more flavor, I really don't think the 'average' player will have any interest in finding a wizard to port them instead of just taking a bell.  The result of your suggestion will be Wizards will lose more DPS in order to get port spells that nobody cares about.<BR></SPAN></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#66ff33>The EQ2 wizard is like buying a car and finding the dealer tried to give you only 3 wheels. You don't have to "negotiate" to get the 4th wheel. You should expect it.</FONT><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All things being equal. You give up something to get something. All things are not equal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the mistake you have made. You've been shortchanged and instead of asking for the rest of your money, your hoping they don't take more.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kamujin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-18-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:50 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:50 AM</span>

[Dae]

I'm beginning to think it's impossible for anyone to discuss anything on these forums without it devolving into an argument over relative class power... So about them ports huh? <div></div>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daerv wrote:<BR>I'm beginning to think it's impossible for anyone to discuss anything on these forums without it devolving into an argument over relative class power...<BR><BR>So about them ports huh?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I love ports. They make my wizard feel wizardly. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The arguement against seems to boil down to something like "Port are not needed and have no value, but if they are added they will cause wizards to be nerfed in response to being given such a worthless ability"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lamprey_02]

Actually, wizards should be careful what they wish for. Given ports, they'd lose their remaining claim to the #1 damage dealer spot. Currently, warlock damage is better than wizard since warlocks do nothing *but* damage, while wizards get somewhat less damage but are compensated with buffs.Many argue that wizard buffs are bad and therefore don't warrant a damage potential reduction. With ports given to wizards, that argument becomes much tougher to make.

[Stavenh]

Kamujin wrote:You seem to lack the reading comprehension to understand your own writing. They also said no soloing and PvP. Guess what? That mistake cost them money too.Dammit, this caught my eye as I was scrolling past to someone elses post.Sorry, but again, you are wrong. When the game was still in beta, they said they planed to have solo content. They have never once said NO SOLO CONTENT EVER. In fact, the idea about solo content was they planned to included solo content at the entrance of zones and dungeons to give players looking for groups something to do, and earn some xp while looking for a group. What they have said is that this is primarily a grouping game, and that solo content would never be more then group content and that group content would always provide better then solo in rewards. They have increased more solo content and solo rewards in response to the number of people wanting to play the game solo, but group still out weights solo. They never said no to PVP. What they did say was no PVP at launch, but that they weren't ruling it out down the road, but that they wanted to make sure that all classes could handle PVP, and that it wouldn't be unbalanced towards some classes like it was in EQ1.so to quote the first Willy WonkaYou Lose! Good Day!

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Lamprey_02 wrote:Actually, wizards should be careful what they wish for. Given ports, they'd lose their remaining claim to the #1 damage dealer spot. Currently, warlock damage is better than wizard since warlocks do nothing *but* damage, while wizards get somewhat less damage but are compensated with buffs.Many argue that wizard buffs are bad and therefore don't warrant a damage potential reduction. With ports given to wizards, that argument becomes much tougher to make.<hr></blockquote>Thank you for seeing my point.Ports take away from what we have, and offer nothing of value, except for those that played wizards in EQ1 and are being sentimental.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>Actually, wizards should be careful what they wish for. Given ports, they'd lose their remaining claim to the #1 damage dealer spot. Currently, warlock damage is better than wizard since warlocks do nothing *but* damage, while wizards get somewhat less damage but are compensated with buffs.<BR><BR>Many argue that wizard buffs are bad and therefore don't warrant a damage potential reduction. With ports given to wizards, that argument becomes much tougher to make.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is a reasonble concern, but I think you should consider the following.</P> <P>There is a seriously dimished return to putting all of a wizards "eggs" in the damage basket. My experience has shown me that even if wizards walk around naked and permenantly snared, they would never raise wizard DPS beyond a threshold. This is because if you truely compensated wizards with DPS, it would be like double to triple what it is now. What does this mean? Well, in essence, wizards are, for lack of a better word, "hard capped" in terms of damage, by the impact that their DPS would have on balancing encounters.</P> <P>So if wizards are "hard capped" at something like 50% of what they truely should have to offset their class weaknesses, then adding some non-combat abilites without nerfing their DPS would leave them at something like 60% of their deserved DPS. The goal should be to add enough "wizardly" things to get wizards to 100% of their deserved DPS without the need to reduce their current DPS. Quite frankly, I think a strong arguement can be made to fix wizard resist issues ( can you say lures?) AND add "wizardly" utility spells such as ports.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Kamujin wrote:<BR><BR>You seem to lack the reading comprehension to understand your own writing. They also said no soloing and PvP. Guess what? That mistake cost them money too.<BR><BR>Dammit, this caught my eye as I was scrolling past to someone elses post.<BR><BR><BR>Sorry, but again, you are wrong. When the game was still in beta, they said they planed to have solo content. They have never once said NO SOLO CONTENT EVER. In fact, the idea about solo content was they planned to included solo content at the entrance of zones and dungeons to give players looking for groups something to do, and earn some xp while looking for a group. What they have said is that this is primarily a grouping game, and that solo content would never be more then group content and that group content would always provide better then solo in rewards. They have increased more solo content and solo rewards in response to the number of people wanting to play the game solo, but group still out weights solo. <BR><BR>They never said no to PVP. What they did say was no PVP at launch, but that they weren't ruling it out down the road, but that they wanted to make sure that all classes could handle PVP, and that it wouldn't be unbalanced towards some classes like it was in EQ1.<BR><BR>so to quote the first Willy Wonka<BR><BR>You Lose! Good Day!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>2,000,000 on my side. </P> <P>250,000 on yours.</P> <P>Keep digging in. Anyone with a memory knows that SOE said EQ2 was geared to small groups. They told the PvP people to "politely" [Removed for Content] off with that comment, but no-PvP is no-PvP. You can pretend there is PvP in the design, but your wrong. They also told the soloist/duelist to "politely" [Removed for Content]-off. Only the most diehard fanboy would try to deny this. </P> <P>Even SOE admits now that it was wrong and is trying desperately to fix things.</P> <P>Thanks for not reading my post. :smileywink:</P> <P>Next fanboy in line for a smackdown please.</P> <p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Kamujin wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Kamujin wrote:<BR><BR>You seem to lack the reading comprehension to understand your own writing. They also said no soloing and PvP. Guess what? That mistake cost them money too.<BR><BR>Dammit, this caught my eye as I was scrolling past to someone elses post.<BR><BR><BR>Sorry, but again, you are wrong. When the game was still in beta, they said they planed to have solo content. They have never once said NO SOLO CONTENT EVER. In fact, the idea about solo content was they planned to included solo content at the entrance of zones and dungeons to give players looking for groups something to do, and earn some xp while looking for a group. What they have said is that this is primarily a grouping game, and that solo content would never be more then group content and that group content would always provide better then solo in rewards. They have increased more solo content and solo rewards in response to the number of people wanting to play the game solo, but group still out weights solo. <BR><BR>They never said no to PVP. What they did say was no PVP at launch, but that they weren't ruling it out down the road, but that they wanted to make sure that all classes could handle PVP, and that it wouldn't be unbalanced towards some classes like it was in EQ1.<BR><BR>so to quote the first Willy Wonka<BR><BR>You Lose! Good Day!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>2,000,000 on my side. </P> <P>250,000 on yours.</P> <P>Keep digging in. Anyone with a memory knows that SOE said EQ2 was geared to small groups. They told the PvP people to "politely" [Removed for Content] off with that comment, but no-PvP is no-PvP. You can pretend there is PvP in the design, but your wrong. They also told the soloist/duelist to "politely" [Removed for Content]-off. Only the most diehard fanboy would try to deny this. </P> <P>Even SOE admits now that it was wrong and is trying desperately to fix things.</P> <P>Thanks for not reading my post. :smileywink:</P> <P>Next fanboy in line for a smackdown please.</P> <p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Sorry, but you are wrong wrong wrong.They always had solo content. And they never said NO to PVP. They said it was something they were looking into. The fact that both cities launched with areanas shows that it was in consideration as an option when the game was being developed. There is no point in putting in buildings for this, if they where never ever going to even consider PVP like your trying to imply.Again, you are wrong, wrong, wrong.And like I said, I caught that scrolling by because You have to put large type in your posts because like southern people with big hair thinking it brings them closer to God, you think big type makes you more right then others.But again, wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR>Sorry, but you are wrong wrong wrong.<BR><BR>They always had solo content. And they never said NO to PVP. They said it was something they were looking into. The fact that both cities launched with areanas shows that it was in consideration as an option when the game was being developed. There is no point in putting in buildings for this, if they where never ever going to even consider PVP like your trying to imply.<BR><BR>Again, you are wrong, wrong, wrong.<BR><BR>And like I said, I caught that scrolling by because You have to put large type in your posts because like southern people with big hair thinking it brings them closer to God, you think big type makes you more right then others.<BR><BR>But again, wrong, wrong, wrong.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks again for not reading my post. :smileywink:</P> <P>I didn't say they had NO SOLO CONTENT. I said they told the soloist to [Removed for Content] off. How did they do this? By making solo content TERRIBLE. They are trying to fix this now. <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/content.vm?page=TonsofContentAdded" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/content.vm?page=TonsofContentAdded</A> for some of the many changes they've made to try and lure back the soloist that they thought didn't matter.</P> <P>PvP? No PvP at launch means ...NO....PVP.....AT......LAUNCH. So if you've wanted to play EQ2 and PvP, guess what? You can't!!! Yes, they worded their statement well enough to leave room in the future for PvP. We all know there is currently no PvP in EQ2. Putting a empty building in a city does not a pvp-game system make.</P> <P>Remember WoW lauched with PvP, soloing, grouping, well developed classes, and a finished game! EQ2 had all the money and resource to do the same. They chose not to develop these areas intentionally and paid the price.</P> <P>Thanks for the pleasure of correcting you again. Next time can you at least form a good arguement. This is too easy.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:47 PM</span>

[Dramadon]

Well, whatever. I just hate spending an entire raid stunned. Its sooooo boring. <div></div>

[Stavenh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamujin wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Thanks again for not reading my post. :smileywink:</P> <P>I didn't say they had NO SOLO CONTENT. I said they told the soloist to [Removed for Content] off. How did they do this? By making solo content TERRIBLE. They are trying to fix this now. <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/content.vm?page=TonsofContentAdded" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/content.vm?page=TonsofContentAdded</A> for some of the many changes they've made to try and lure back the soloist that they thought didn't matter.</P> <P>PvP? No PvP at launch means ...NO....PVP.....AT......LAUNCH. So if you've wanted to play EQ2 and PvP, guess what? You can't!!! Yes, they worded their statement well enough to leave room in the future for PvP. We all know there is currently no PvP in EQ2. Putting a empty building in a city does not a pvp-game system make.</P> <P>Remember WoW lauched with PvP, soloing, grouping, well developed classes, and a finished game! EQ2 had all the money and resource to do the same. They chose not to develop these areas intentionally and paid the price.</P> <P>Thanks for the pleasure of correcting you again. Next time can you at least form a good arguement. This is too easy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kamujin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:47 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Go read your own post. Here is what you said:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>They also said no soloing and PvP.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV align=center><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV align=left>I'm sorry, but that is pretty clear what you said. You are claiming that Sony said no solo and no PVP. But they didn't. Coming back and saying, well, they had terrible solo content doesn't change what you said. All it means is that you are now trying to spin what you said. </DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>And no PVP at launch does not mean no PVP ever.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>If WoW is so good, go play it. Oh wait, aren't you one of those people that claim you don't play WoW because the graphics aren't your taste. So your telling me that you would play such a broken horrible game, when another game in your own words is so amazingly better simply because of the graphics. If this is the case, then clearly, the only thing that really matters in the game is the graphics, and that would be EQ2 over WoW.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>See, you haven't won, because you always make statements like the two above, that you then have to come back and put spin on. You claim you like this game, yet all you do is [Removed for Content] and moan about it, never offer contructive feedback. </DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>So please, go play WoW, since it's such a better game over all.</DIV>

[Conequis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kamujin wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr></blockquote>Remember WoW lauched with PvP, soloing, grouping, well developed classes, and a finished game! EQ2 had all the money and resource to do the same. They chose not to develop these areas intentionally and paid the price.<hr></blockquote> I think I am definately agreeing with others here in that if you hate EQ2 so much, go play WoW then.  Personally, as bad as Sony has been many times with changing things, they are definately trying at making the game better.  Unlike WoW which does updates very rarely and had HUGE problems at launch, especially with the logon servers and still has almost no high-end content as well. </span><div></div>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamujin wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Thanks again for not reading my post. :smileywink:</P> <P>I didn't say they had NO SOLO CONTENT. I said they told the soloist to [Removed for Content] off. How did they do this? By making solo content TERRIBLE. They are trying to fix this now. <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/content.vm?page=TonsofContentAdded" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/content.vm?page=TonsofContentAdded</A> for some of the many changes they've made to try and lure back the soloist that they thought didn't matter.</P> <P>PvP? No PvP at launch means ...NO....PVP.....AT......LAUNCH. So if you've wanted to play EQ2 and PvP, guess what? You can't!!! Yes, they worded their statement well enough to leave room in the future for PvP. We all know there is currently no PvP in EQ2. Putting a empty building in a city does not a pvp-game system make.</P> <P>Remember WoW lauched with PvP, soloing, grouping, well developed classes, and a finished game! EQ2 had all the money and resource to do the same. They chose not to develop these areas intentionally and paid the price.</P> <P>Thanks for the pleasure of correcting you again. Next time can you at least form a good arguement. This is too easy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kamujin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-18-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:47 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Go read your own post. Here is what you said:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>They also said no soloing and PvP.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV align=center><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV align=left>I'm sorry, but that is pretty clear what you said. You are claiming that Sony said no solo and no PVP. But they didn't. Coming back and saying, well, they had terrible solo content doesn't change what you said. All it means is that you are now trying to spin what you said.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>And no PVP at launch does not mean no PVP ever.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>If WoW is so good, go play it. Oh wait, aren't you one of those people that claim you don't play WoW because the graphics aren't your taste. So your telling me that you would play such a broken horrible game, when another game in your own words is so amazingly better simply because of the graphics. If this is the case, then clearly, the only thing that really matters in the game is the graphics, and that would be EQ2 over WoW.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>See, you haven't won, because you always make statements like the two above, that you then have to come back and put spin on. You claim you like this game, yet all you do is [Removed for Content] and moan about it, never offer contructive feedback.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>So please, go play WoW, since it's such a better game over all.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Context is your friend. I know your desperate to win once, but you need to be right to do that.</P> <P>Here is my original statement which is correct</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Some people think crab juice is a good drink too. Most people would agree that crab juice is actually not a good drink. Now, people like Steveham will say they drink crab juice better then most, or other people don't know how to drink crab juice, or that the flavor of crab juice get better if your standing or sitting. <FONT size=5>The rest of us know its still crab juice.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>You can pretend that EQ2 is a well designed game that most people enjoy, but the facts don't support that arguement. EQ2 currently has roughly 250,000 subscribers. EQ1 had roughly 400,000 at its peak. WoW has 2,000,000.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>EQ2 couldn't even hold on to its player base from the original game in a market that is exploding!!!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>EQ2 made a bunch of bets and lost.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Bet1) Small groups were morally superior to soloers, duelist, and raiding guilds. They actually said EQ2 wasn't the game for you if your not into conventional group play.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Bet2) Homogenize all classes to eliminate "class envy" and simplify balancing. Design the game around the smallest number of abilities possible and give them different names.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Bet3) PvP was for griefers.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Bet4) Tune leveling to require roughly 150-300 kills per level, while keeping quest exp very low.</FONT></P> <P>Anyhow, we went back and forth so much on your attempt to hijack this thread that I'll just let my previous posts stand on what I have claimed regarding PvP and Soloing. They are accurate when read in context of the discussion.</P> <P>BTW, thanks again for not reading my post. :smileywink:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Conequis wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamujin wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Remember WoW lauched with PvP, soloing, grouping, well developed classes, and a finished game! EQ2 had all the money and resource to do the same. They chose not to develop these areas intentionally and paid the price. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think I am definately agreeing with others here in that if you hate EQ2 so much, go play WoW then.  Personally, as bad as Sony has been many times with changing things, they are definately trying at making the game better.  Unlike WoW which does updates very rarely and had HUGE problems at launch, especially with the logon servers and still has almost no high-end content as well.<BR></SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>This kind of smug attitude cost SOE something like $156,000,000 in anual revenues. I would have expected that you'd have learned your lesson by now. I'd prefer that SOE have won these revenues and had that much more money to invest in making this game even better. You and Steve can languish in your little fiefdoms and pretend things are great.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>ANYHOW, I still think summoners/conjurors should get ports. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>Yes, that what this thread was about until some people tried to hi-jack it after losing the original debate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>Ports YES= 9</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>Ports NO= 4</FONT></P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Kamujin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:24 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:28 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

Kam, you have gone off the deep end.With all the large text, colors, quotes within quotes, you are the desperate one. That post is so hard to make sense out of.You don't even play a wizard anymore. You have nothing good to say about a game your paying for. You make statements that aren't true and then try and twist them to being true. You've always had an unhealthy obsession with me. The consent quoting "Maybe I play a better" without being able to prove that, along with the Best Wizard ever. Half your posts go on and on about that. Look at the way you post, the quickness of your responses, the inaccuracy of your statement, the bitterness towards the game and the makers of the game. And you can't even quote the correct post I took your words from. Wrong again. Anyone this wrong so much should just go have a rest.You got problems. Now of course, your next post will be to say that all these is what I do.I SOOOOO wish that the ignore all posts feature actually worked. You are one of those people everyone else always needs to back away slowly from, and avoid eye contact.<p>Message Edited by Stavenham on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 AM</span>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Kam<BR><BR>Just so you know, I don't bother reading your posts anymore. When I see your name, I just scroll on past. Yeah, I see you adress post or reply to mine, but I've decided to stop feeding your obsession and stalking of me by giving your replies. I would rather talk with someone that actually enjoys the game, and actually <FONT color=#ffff00>(ONLY)</FONT> plays a wizard.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The irony.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Kamujin wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Kam<BR><BR>Just so you know, I don't bother reading your posts anymore. When I see your name, I just scroll on past. Yeah, I see you adress post or reply to mine, but I've decided to stop feeding your obsession and stalking of me by giving your replies. I would rather talk with someone that actually enjoys the game, and actually <FONT color=#ffff00>(ONLY)</FONT> plays a wizard.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The irony.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Sigh, often when someone knows they are wrong, they change subjects.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamujin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Kam<BR><BR>Just so you know, I don't bother reading your posts anymore. When I see your name, I just scroll on past. Yeah, I see you adress post or reply to mine, but I've decided to stop feeding your obsession and stalking of me by giving your replies. I would rather talk with someone that actually enjoys the game, and actually <FONT color=#ffff00>(ONLY)</FONT> plays a wizard.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The irony.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> <BR><BR>Sigh, often when someone knows they are wrong, they change subjects.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is true. Like when you tried to hijack this thread and turn it into a debate about soloing and pvp. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It takes a big man to admit when they are wrong. Its encouraging to see your starting to make progress.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tar~Palantir]

If we aren't going to get the DPS which we deserve and are entitled to ebcause we give up so much, a port would atleast assauge my bloodlust.

[Stavenh]

Sorry, Kam, I'm not the one that brought up soloing and PVP. I responded to YOUR post about about soloing and PVP in this thread about porting. Wrong again. To bad you can't be the man you say I am. Thanks =) <blockquote><hr>Tar~Palantir wrote:If we aren't going to get the DPS which we deserve and are entitled to ebcause we give up so much, a port would atleast assauge my bloodlust. <hr></blockquote>Tar, save your anger till after the revamp. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, but I do feel things will be better balanced after it goes live. If not, then post away your frustration about wizards.

[AkashaSh]

<DIV>Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>Actually, wizards should be careful what they wish for. Given ports, they'd lose their remaining claim to the #1 damage dealer spot. Currently, warlock damage is better than wizard since warlocks do nothing *but* damage, while wizards get somewhat less damage but are compensated with buffs.<BR><BR>Many argue that wizard buffs are bad and therefore don't warrant a damage potential reduction. With ports given to wizards, that argument becomes much tougher to make.<BR> <HR> <BR><BR>stavenham wrote:<BR><FONT color=#33ccff>"Thank you for seeing my point.<BR><BR>Ports take away from what we have, and offer nothing of value, except for those that played wizards in EQ1 and are being sentimental.</FONT> "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0033><STRONG>still don't see y we would have to lose any thing....every game i played with ports i did not lose/get weakened because i had ports.....we would not need to lose buffs or damage or anything there are ways around that and i dont understand y every other game has them but it would be O so bad to put them in this game and how it would make everything sux and everyone write blah blah blah blah.....it is expected that a mage have ports! would not change anything and if it is money thing like i keep hearing you complain about stavenham i could complain that healer types get paid to rez or join groups to heal [i have gotten these offers with my healer and heard it from healer friends all the time] but i dont care it is not like that big of a deal really and everyone i talked to said they would be more then happy to use a wizzies port and would not complain....</STRONG></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by AkashaShaw on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:22 AM</span>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Sorry, Kam, I'm not the one that brought up soloing and PVP. I responded to YOUR post about about soloing and PVP in this thread about porting. Wrong again. <BR><BR>To bad you can't be the man you say I am. Thanks =) <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I thank God every day that I am not the man I think you are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mentioned these issues to support my opinion that sorcercors/conjurors should get ports. You tried to hijack this thread by taking what I said out of context. I don't expect you to uderstand this. I've come to realize that you have limitations that make this hard to understand. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you should continue to not read or respond to my posts. You've been doing an excellent job of it.</DIV> <DIV>Maybe you should continue to think you "play a wizard better then most" and enjoy life as "Stavenham, The BEST wizard EVER."</DIV> <DIV>I am not here to continually thrash you, but I will not allow you to shout me down. You've used your pandoring fanboy tactics to try and silence people with real concerns.</DIV> <DIV>I want to discuss these issues. I want to hear what other people think. I'd like to see EQ2 hit 1 million subscribers. I don't care about your little personal fiefdom. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I don't think wizards should feel that they have to sacrifice anything to get ports. I believe wizards were "short changed" when it came to abilities. When you've been given less then you deserve, you ask for the rest. You should not feel obligated to give up something to get what you deserved in the first place.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kamujin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:31 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:38 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>AkashaShaw wrote: <DIV>Lamprey_02 wrote:Actually, wizards should be careful what they wish for. Given ports, they'd lose their remaining claim to the #1 damage dealer spot. Currently, warlock damage is better than wizard since warlocks do nothing *but* damage, while wizards get somewhat less damage but are compensated with buffs.Many argue that wizard buffs are bad and therefore don't warrant a damage potential reduction. With ports given to wizards, that argument becomes much tougher to make. <HR> stavenham wrote:<FONT color=#33ccff>"Thank you for seeing my point.Ports take away from what we have, and offer nothing of value, except for those that played wizards in EQ1 and are being sentimental.</FONT> "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0033><STRONG>still don't see y we would have to lose any thing....every game i played with ports i did not lose/get weakened because i had ports.....we would not need to lose buffs or damage or anything there are ways around that and i dont understand y every other game has them but it would be O so bad to put them in this game and how it would make everything sux and everyone write blah blah blah blah.....it is expected that a mage have ports! would not change anything and if it is money thing like i keep hearing you complain about stavenham i could complain that healer types get paid to rez or join groups to heal [i have gotten these offers with my healer and heard it from healer friends all the time] but i dont care it is not like that big of a deal really and everyone i talked to said they would be more then happy to use a wizzies port and would not complain....</STRONG></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by AkashaShaw on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:22 AM</span><hr></blockquote>Which would you rather have, more nukes and debuffs, or ports. Each class gets roughly the same number of spells, between 54-56 I believe. This doesn't include fun spells. So, if they suddenly gave us ports they have to give every single other class something too. Because the number of spells each class gets is part of it's percieved value. If one class where to clearly have more spells then other class in a significate amount, then players would regard that class as having more value because of the number of spells it gets. Regardless of what those spells actually do. So if we get them added, we have to lose something to keep that balance.Also, everyone right now has to spend the roughly the same amount of time traveling. If you don't have speed buffs, you have the option of horses. Yes, they cost money, but with work, it's easy to make enough money to buy a horse. If a few classes get the ability to port, the fact that we don't have to pay to travel would be considered unfair by every other class.If they are given as part of an expansion, that means instead of getting nukes and usefull buffs, we get ports. I would much rather have a heat based debuff/dot or more cold based nukes then a port. Like so many people have said, wizards are a DPS class, I don't see how porting would fit into that. And on top of that, porting would give those classes that get the spells an oppurtunity to charge for them. Even if you personally wouldn't charge. It was a big issue in EQ1. Classes that could cast buffs or port, would stand around doing just that, and yes, getting rich. The aren't going to allow that. They have set ways for characters to make money, and this isn't one of the ways they want. And it would put a plug in one of the ways money leaves the world.They said from the begining, porting was gone. They also said that the idea of what wizards were in EQ1 are gone too. I suggest getting used to it. I have yet to have a healer ask for payment once. Since healers still can't rez from outside the group, and reviving will put you in the same zone, there isn't much need for people to come and rez players in zones like there was in EQ1 for money.

[Kamuj]

<P>I diagree with the notion that ports must come at the expense of DPS. This pre-supposes the idea that wizards are correctly implimented in terms of DPS. I don't think this is the case.</P> <P>Also, there are many "movement" abilities. Ports can be returned to the game without breaking it. I see potions of ALL kinds in the game. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Why not port potions? Doesn't the idea of a wizard who makes potions to port totally fit in a roleplaying sense?</FONT></P> <DIV>Why is the idea that I can click on a bell and instantly travel around the "world" somehow acceptable, but the idea that a wizard can use magic to do the same thing is considered "over powered"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ports are a non-combat ability. The beauty of adding ports is that they will strengthen a class that is poorly implimented without making them too strong in combat. This allows SOE to correct the DPS/Resists issues WITHOUT worrying that ports will have an unexpected compound combat benefit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why shouldn't magic users have more spells? Why shouldn't fighters have more armour choices and weapons choices. This idea of the "generic combatant" with different "ability labels" is horrifying to me. Spellcasters should have the MOST spells. THEY ARE SPELLCASTERS!!! Classes should be different in more ways then just the names of their abilities and their HP/AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Class envy is a MUCH better problem to have then class homogeny.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Alfgand]

<DIV>This is an interesting thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too miss the ports, gates and xlocs from EQ1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However I do remember quite well the four main <U>day to day</U> gripes from players in EQ1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Druids and Wizards complaining about getting begged for ports. (Druids complained more than the Wizards did.) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>     I never complained as I used it as major source of income. lol  I would /occ that I was available for ports but never asked for payment or even mentioned a donation but most people would give me a tip.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. The SoW'ing classes would gripe about getting begged for SoW all the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. The Chanters, especially after KEI came on the scene would gripe about C, C2 and KEI begging.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Clerics griped about getting begged for Rez'es</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So in EQ2 they take away these sources of complaints and still people are not happy. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are my humble thoughts on Ports in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Fix the resist issues before worrying about ports.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>      Giving us ports and not fixing this is not an acceptable solution.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Fix the Warlock vs Wizard DPS issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>     Giving us ports and not fixing this is not an acceptable solution.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Make sure that <U>Wizards AND Warlocks</U> both sit at the top of the DPS pyramid since both classes give up so much to be there. <STRONG>Equal yet different</STRONG>.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>      Giving us ports and not fixing this is not an acceptable solution.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. If all the above are fixed, then and only then, consider giving <U>Wizards AND Warlocks</U> Ports/Gates/Xlocs.</DIV> <DIV>      Don't give me the Wizlock crap again because that argument does not hold up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>      Ok, ok,  maybe the Druid folks should get them also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something could be done to balance between getting new utility with ports and yet not making traveling a pain to those who cannot port.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a tough thing to do. Some of my greatest adventures at low levels when I first started playing EQ1 was to travel from one place to another. I vividly remember when a friend dragged, my little young Wizard Alfgand, from the nice safe Qeynos local area, to half way across the world to this scary place called Oasis. Good grief, they had huge giants, crocodiles and these really horrifying spectres there !!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> A trip from Qeynos to Freeport in those days was quite an adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That was dwarfed when I took my first trip from Freeport to Kunark. It took two ships and boat to get there ! The farther I got from Qeynos the more worried I would be. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then as I gained ports and gates as I leveled the world was not so big and not so scary. Then when the age of PoK came about, the world became a tiny place, all connected and very small.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, it is easy to travel now in EQ1 but it is sad the scale of things now is so small. On the other hand waiting for boats, running your butt off was pain and a big time sink.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never had this sense of size with EQ2. Why? No matter where I was, no matter how dangerous a place, I was and am no farther from Qeynos than a ten second second cast of Call of Qeynos. Yes, it makes it convenient but also takes something away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can see where this is a nightmare issue for the Dev's or MiB's as I now call them. lol  Its a tough balancing act.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note, can someone please, please tell me why the scout class'es have EVAC and why it makes sense?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>      </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Alfgand on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:30 PM</span>

[Stavenh]

Kamujin wrote:Why is the idea that I can click on a bell and instantly travel around the "world" somehow acceptable, but the idea that a wizard can use magic to do the same thing is considered "over powered"? Ports are a non-combat ability. The beauty of adding ports is that they will strengthen a class that is poorly implimented without making them too strong in combat. This allows SOE to correct the DPS/Resists issues WITHOUT worrying that ports will have an unexpected compound combat benefit.The bells don't magically teleport you. You use the bells to let the boat know you are ready to depart. You travel by ship, not by magic when you the bells. You just don't see it, because if they used a cut scene to show that, or you had to wait for the ship to come, people would be made about the time wasted doing that. Biggest complaint about boats from EQ1, the time they wasted (when you didn't just miss them).Ports add nothing to combat. Even if they did add ports, don't you think they would make them just like the Call spells, unable to cast in combat. So they add nothing to wizards. They don't fix resists, they don't increase our DPS, they don't offer better buffs. They offer nothing that will actually make wizards better at what they do. Which is your biggest complaint right now, Kam, that wizards suck in DPS, utilities are a joke, and the only good thing we have is the ability to feed mana.How in the world is adding ports going to improve any single one of those issues? Traveling by boat/bell is cheap. Yes, some people think 60 silver is alot.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alfgand wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too miss the ports, gates and xlocs from EQ1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(edited)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a tough thing to do. Some of my greatest adventures at low levels when I first started playing EQ1 was to travel from one place to another. I vividly remember when a friend dragged, my little young Wizard Alfgand, from the nice safe Qeynos local area, to half way across the world to this scary place called Oasis. Good grief, they had huge giants, crocodiles and these really horrifying spectres there !!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> A trip from Qeynos to Freeport in those days was quite an adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That was dwarfed when I took my first trip from Freeport to Kunark. It took two ships and boat to get there ! The farther I got from Qeynos the more worried I would be. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then as I gained ports and gates as I leveled the world was not so big and not so scary. Then when the age of PoK came about, the world became a tiny place, all connected and very small.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, it is easy to travel now in EQ1 but it is sad the scale of things now is so small. On the other hand waiting for boats, running your butt off was pain and a big time sink.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never had this sense of size with EQ2. Why? No matter where I was, no matter how dangerous a place, I was and am no farther from Qeynos than a ten second second cast of Call of Qeynos. Yes, it makes it convenient but also takes something away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can see where this is a nightmare issue for the Dev's or MiB's as I now call them. lol  Its a tough balancing act.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note, can someone please, please tell me why the scout class'es have EVAC and why it makes sense?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thank you for mentioning the loss of "scale" in EQ.</P> <P>When I originally chose my wizard in EQ1 it was BECAUSE of the ports. Everyone has the ability to do damage. <FONT color=#ffff00>I know wizards are PRIMARILY a damage class in EQ2, but I don't that they need to be to the exclusion of all things wizardly.</FONT></P> <P>I loved porting people. I loved moving my guild around. When a raid was called, people knew they could count on me to come get them. I never complained about it, because I truely enjoyed it. There was a great thrill to roleplaying a character who "traveled the corridors of magic".</P> <P>Travel is a timesink in MMORPG's. This is true. <FONT color=#ffff00>What people fail to realize is the if you reduce the "timesink" factor in travel, it will be replaced by increasing the timesink factor in other activities</FONT>. In EQ2, the "timesink" factor is heavily weighted towards killing the same creatures over and over and over again. Do you realize that to complete a level the average player kills roughly 100-300 mobs? Why so many? Because SOE uses this to balance the speed at which you can progress through levels.</P> <P>Early in Beta, I had suggested the idea that EQ2 use a diminshed return system for experience to enforce a bias towards their target level progression rate. This would allow them to "loosen" their limits on abilities and allow for more varied type of playstyles. By having a systemic bias toward their target progression rate, players could benefit from "creative" strategies without fear that those strategies could be "mass produced" to power level.</P> <P>Why is this relevant? Maybe its not.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I too would like to see "scale" matter again. I too would like things to seem "near" and "far". Timesinks are an unavoidable mechanism in the MMORPG. I'd prefer that they be disguised in ways that add to the sense of immersion.</FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>Which is your biggest complaint right now, Kam, that wizards suck in DPS, utilities are a joke, and the only good thing we have is the ability to feed mana.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My biggest complaint is that wizards don't feel "wizardly". This is not an attempt to "cop out" of answering your question. </P> <P>I see the DPS issue as a problem, but with the level cap being raise and new mobs being created, I think the developers will be smart enough NOT to reinvent that problem.</P> <P>I am intersted in roleplaying a wizard. To that end, I do not need to "out gun" everyone. I want DPS that is fair considering my defensive sacrifices, but I also want magic that doesn't feel like a fighter ability with a wizard sounding name.</P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:05 PM</span>

[Stavenh]

The idea that wizards are teleporters is an EQ thing, not a written in stone thing. No where is it written that in a game, wizards must teleport. As for Time sinks. The main object of the game is fighting mobs and taking thier loot. Exploration is an aspect of the game. Traveling is an aspect of the game. But to progress through the game, you are going to need to fight mobs, and take thier loot. You can get XP for exploring, you can do quests that don't require killing, but those are limited, and less and less as you level up.Traveling should not be a time sink. If that means the scale of the world seems smaller, I can live with that. But outdoor zones now are much larger then the zones in EQ2. However, they had more zones in EQ1. You had the three Karanas in EQ1, which are now the Thundering Steppes. But those zones where tame and rather boring. There is alot more going on in TS then the three Karanas put together. Dessert of Flames will add a whole new land to the world. And from what I read, will have the largest outdoor zones yet. It will also include Guk, Innothule Swamp and much more. There is still Fadywar, Odus, Kunark and Velious to come yet.In time, the world will be bigger then you could imagine. But still wouldn't want ports. What I would want is items like the stone from splitpaw that allows you to teleport back to the den, allowing you to avoid having to run throught the upper tunnels each time.

[Stavenh]

I also believe it was explained why porting like it used to no longer works.Teleporting, they say, was magic that came from the moon Luclin, tied into the spires and circles. When the moon Luclin was destroyed, it broke the power of the spires, which made teleporting non functional.I'm assuming that to the makers of the game, calling home uses different magic then teleporting. Anyway, if teleporting is tied to the moon Luclin, which was shattered and ruined, then you couldn't simply restore the spires, because the magic that ran them is gone.

[Kamuj]

<DIV>Magic users as teleporters predates EQ significantly and is a VERY common fantasy theme. One of my favorite teleporting Mages was the ever popular Raistlin Majere. Although, I have to admit that Dalamar Argent was so fond of teleporting that he would port from his lab to the front door when visitors arrived.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards as teleports to the exclusion of Magicians was an EQ thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to push back against the the notion that EQ2 is purely about killing things over and over and taking their stuff. I think the whole crafting community might feel unimportant if that was true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that killing things and taking their stuff is a LARGE part of the game, but it should not squeeze out other parts that add "flavor".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Kamujin wrote: <DIV>Magic users as teleporters predates EQ significantly and is a VERY common fantasy theme. One of my favorite teleporting Mages was the ever popular Raistlin Majere. Although, I have to admit that Dalamar Argent was so fond of teleporting that he would port from his lab to the front door when visitors arrived.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards as teleports to the exclusion of Magicians was an EQ thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to push back against the the notion that EQ2 is purely about killing things over and over and taking their stuff. I think the whole crafting community might feel unimportant if that was true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that killing things and taking their stuff is a LARGE part of the game, but it should not squeeze out other parts that add "flavor".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Rasitlin used the Dragon Orb to teleport.I'm not saying that teleporting isn't a mage thing, i said it wasn't what the definition of a wizard is.Gandalf never teleported that we knew of. The sorcerers in Katherin Kurtz books could teleport with the use of magically created portals. As for killing over and over. Well, it's a game. What else is there in the end? The best gear in the game is from mobs. Even the best crafted gear is only gotten from killing mobs.Yes, you can play this game without wanting the best gear. And it's perfectly acceptable. Yes you can play this game withoug focusing on killing mobs. And it's perfectly acceptable. But then you have to accept that type of play will only take you so far, and get you so much. But even crafting is designed mainly for providing you gear and items to go out and kill mobs. All but one craft provide items for adventuring, carpentry being the one that provides items for your home. And even that might change, creating items that restore your vitality faster.All the best in the game comes from killing mobs and taking their loot. Even if it's a quest that rewards you with the best weapon/armor in the game, you still have to kill something to get there. Like you have said, mages and teleporting are a standard in fantasy. So is killing the enemy. How interesting would a fantasy book be that ended, And so the blacksmith forged the mythical armor, and the warrior was happy." or "And as the griffon touched down, the brave scout felt he had learned something and gained experience from his ride across Antonica."

[Alfgand]

<P>The more I think about this the more I come to realize that I really enjoyed those "tough" times in EQ1. I do not have the sense of accomplishment that I had in EQ1. </P> <P>Maybe SoE has tried to be all things to all people and maybe that is a problem.</P> <P>I hated staring at the book while I mediated in EQ1 but I felt great when I got level 20 or 30 or where it was when I "grew" beyond it.</P> <P>I remember alot of my level 1 to 10 and 10 to 20 in EQ1 with my first/main toon. In EQ2 its a blur even though in EQ1 it was years ago and in EQ2 it was less than a year ago.</P> <P>I feel like I paid my dues in EQ1 with Alfgand. I was not in guild until I was about 25 or so and I did not have good gear. I felt like the high end game, level 50 was so far, far away that I did not even think about it. I enjoyed my level and had a good time, slowly working to get to higher levels.</P> <P>Somehow I feel in EQ2, its all a rush to get to 50 and now that I know the expansion is coming out soon I am rushing to get from from 41 to 50 before it gets out. Yes, I know, no one is making me rush to get to 50 and I have tried to slow down after I noticed this effect. Thats why I am not yet to 50. lol</P> <P>The epic scale of things in the early EQ1 is missing in EQ2. The distance between places is not there due to bells and Call of Qeynos/Freeport. The distance between levels is not there. </P> <P>The long road is not there.</P> <P>Maybe, just maybe, it should be long, long hard road to get to 50. No ports, no Call of Qeynos, no bells no easy way out until you earn these features as time goes by. Maybe things should be tougher, more of a pain in the butt to do until you earn the easier way.</P> <P>I think you should have to do things the hard way at least once with one toon. Then maybe it should be easier with your alts since you may not want to suffer over and over.</P> <P>I really don't know. Its a tough thing to try to balance between too easy and too hard, easy travel and hard/long travel, allow for solo'ers, group'ers, raid'ers and PvP'ers. lol</P> <P>In the long run I think EQ2 is going to be a great game. I have had and still do have fun playing it with my Wizard and alts.</P> <P>Is WoW that much better? I have no idea. I never tried it because the graphics looked just way too much cartoonish for my tastes. </P> <P>Maybe they have more subscribers now but it is the long term that matters and no one knows, not SoE, not Blizzard, not me or you, know how that is going to wash out in time.</P> <P>Yes, I have traveled a bit off topic and perhaps rambled on incoherently a bit. After all, why do think I picked Wizard as my main?  lol </P><p>Message Edited by Alfgand on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:09 PM</span>

[Skwor]

<P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Hmm, gotta throw my two sense in here. Gandalf never teleported overtly or even as we may define it from a game perspective but he definitely traveled from one location to another in a manner that was outside the material realm of middle earth. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Understand the key to this is Gandalf is an angel and a rather high one at that. He had the ability to go between the material and ethereal if need be. He was restricted from doing so by those who sent him. He was only allowed to use his "magic" so to speak in opposition to the great evil and then only what was absolutely needed and in extreme moderation. His charge was to save middle earth by helping its inhabitants learn to protect good themselves.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Wantonly popping in and out of "planes" would be considered a gratuitous use of "magic" on his part. You may be asking then why his enemy did not use teleport to his advantage. Easy, he threw his lot in with middle earth, as such he was not permitted to enter that plane where angels reside (btw of which he was one of before his fall) and therefore did not have that ability. This also goes in line with Gandalf therefore not being able to directly confront or use his "magic" to fight him.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>I love all about ME and welcome any further chat on this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I am by no means an expert but I think I am not far off base on this. If I am please write and let’s have some great chat!!</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </P> <P>Message Edited by Skwor on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:25 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Skwor on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:43 PM</span>

[Stavenh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skwor wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Hmm, gotta throw my two sense in here. Gandalf never teleported overtly or even as we may define it from a game perspective but he definitely traveled from one location to another in a manner that was outside the material realm of middle earth. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Understand the key to this is Gandalf is an angel and a rather high one at that. He had the ability to go between the material and ethereal if need be. He was restricted from doing so by those who sent him. He was only allowed to use his "magic" so to speak in opposition to the great evil and then only what was absolutely needed and in extreme moderation. His charge was to save middle earth by helping its inhabitants learn to protect good themselves.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Wantonly popping in and out of "planes" would be considered a gratuitous use of "magic" on his part. You may be asking then why his enemy did not use teleport to his advantage. Easy, he threw his lot in with middle earth, as such he was not permitted to enter that plane where angels reside (btw of which he was one of before his fall) and therefore did not have that ability. This also goes in line with Gandalf therefore not being able to directly confront or use his "magic" to fight him.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>I love all about ME and welcome any further chat on this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I am by no means an expert but I think I am not far off base on this. If I am please write and let’s have some great chat!!</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Skwor on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:25 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Skwor on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:43 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm glad you called Gandalf an angel, as Tolkien himself sometimes refered to him as that. Gandalf as a wizard is often misleading. There have been articles written on the fact that Gandalf did so little magic in the books. In fact, while magic was talked about, there was very little magic often performed in the books. What magic was performed wasn't always the incantation hands waving kind also. </P> <P>As for the ethereal plane aspect, that's hard to say too. You could consider the Timeless Halls as that. I wouldn't call the Undying Lands that, since they at one point physically existed in Middle Earth, and were removed from the spheres. However saying that, spheres gives rise to the notion of different planes, doesn't it?</P> <P>I personally think Gandalf just traveled fast. In the trilogy, he gets Shadowfax, who is able to move faster then any other horse. In the Hobbit, he often employed the Eagles to transport him around. <BR></P>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR>Rasitlin used the Dragon Orb to teleport. <FONT color=#ffff00>Lets be fair. He only needed the Dragon Orb when he was a noob. Dalamar could teleport without breaking a sweat. Also, there were teleporting rings and such. </FONT><BR><BR>I'm not saying that teleporting isn't a mage thing, i said it wasn't what the definition of a wizard is. <FONT color=#ffff00>Thats why I think Sorcerers and Conjurors should get ports.</FONT><BR><BR>Like you have said, mages and teleporting are a standard in fantasy. So is killing the enemy. How interesting would a fantasy book be that ended, And so the blacksmith forged the mythical armor, and the warrior was happy." or "And as the griffon touched down, the brave scout felt he had learned something and gained experience from his ride across Antonica." <FONT color=#ffff00>Agreed, but I honestly wasn't advocating that we remove combat. I was just suggesting that they add more of a fantasy "flavor" to the game by including VERY popular and commonplace fanatasy concepts.</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:17 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Kamujin wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR>Rasitlin used the Dragon Orb to teleport. <FONT color=#ffff00>Lets be fair. He only needed the Dragon Orb when he was a noob. Dalamar could teleport without breaking a sweat. Also, there were teleporting rings and such. </FONT><BR><BR>I'm not saying that teleporting isn't a mage thing, i said it wasn't what the definition of a wizard is. <FONT color=#ffff00>Thats why I think Sorcerers and Conjurors should get ports.</FONT><BR><BR>Like you have said, mages and teleporting are a standard in fantasy. So is killing the enemy. How interesting would a fantasy book be that ended, And so the blacksmith forged the mythical armor, and the warrior was happy." or "And as the griffon touched down, the brave scout felt he had learned something and gained experience from his ride across Antonica." <FONT color=#ffff00>Agreed, but I honestly wasn't advocating that we remove combat. I was just suggesting that they add more of a fantasy "flavor" to the game by including VERY popular and commonplace fanatasy concepts.</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:17 AM</span><hr></blockquote>I see teleporting objects as more of an option then just giving spells to mages, be they sorcerer, summoner or enchanter. That way, everyone could get them, and it would be fair. Like the stone for Splitpaw Den. It's a fast way to get to TS if you need it. No, I don't think you were advocating removing combat from the game. I'm saying, that the main focus of the game, is and should be, defeating your foes. Would it be nice to have adventures like Lord of the Rings, where Frodo and Sams obsticales are stealth and wits, where they aren't trying to fight their way through hordes of orcs. That would be great. How viable is that in a game like EverQuest? Sure parts could be like that, but an entire quest? It would be exploitable. Oh just have another group run in and kill or pull the mobs so the other group doing the quest can get by. I like the aspects of the game that don't have anything to do with adventuring. I've worked towards making my two room place look like a wizards workshop, and working on faction with the concordium to get those cool pieces of furniture that are very mage like.Porting would not at all make wizards overpowerful. Should mages have a larger number of abilities then fighters and scouts. Under a fantasy idea, yes. Under a game like EverQuest, no. For reasons I've already stated, if mages got a significally increase in the number of spells, it would cause an issue with the other classes being short changed.So if mages get porting, a whole new ability, other classes would need a whole new ability as well. What else is there? Would we start having to cross the lines more between the classes and what abilities they get? Doesn't that already cause problems? Look how scouts are upset over that our invis doesn't slow us down as much. To them, it seems unfair that sneak and invis doesn't work equally. Of course sneak should be slower then invis, in terms of fantasy settings. Sneaking isn't magically hiding, it's about moving slowly, using objects in game to block you and so on. Invisiblity is about using magic to render yourself unseeable. Yet in terms of explaining it from a more fantasy point of view, scouts don't care if one is magical and the other physical skill, to them, they got the short end of the stick.Fantasy is great. But books don't translate well into games in many cases. Have you ever read a book (That wasn't based on a game that came first) where mages forgot thier spells and had to relearn them? No generally mages are very powerful in books. They don't forget spells, they don't run out of power (though they may get fatigued), there aren't limitations on when they can recast a spell. There also aren't that many mages running around in books like there are in games. In LoTRs, there where 5 wizards only, Gandalf, Suraman and Radagast the Brown. The other two were never even named, not even by Tolkien in notes or anything like that. Course that's not the best example, since wizards in those books could be viewed as a misleading usage. Any way, back to porting. Lets also consider the current set up of the world. Where would ports take us? After all, porting ties to the spires that used to exist. In Antonica, there broken wizard spire is located way to the Northeast, in a remote area, surrounded by undead. In TS by the Western shores.In Lava, it's in a very dangerous area, and is where I named for Lost Legends spawns, in Everfrost it's underwater surrounded by a number of different hostile mobs. So new spots would have to be found, ones that were safe, but also convient. All the current locations still make you have to run. Then there is the whole consideration that the magic of the spires came from the Moon Luclin. Since it's destroyed, so was the magic of the spires. Part of a more fantasy setting is to accept the way things work. If the game is set up that teleporting spells worked off of the magic of the moon, and that was destroyed, how could you justify allowing teleporting? Sure there might be a NEW way to teleport, using a different source, but since Luclin wasn't just a moon, but also the domain of a God, wouldn't they have something to say about that? The gods may not be activly involved in the affairs of Norrath, but it is still subject to the laws (as abject as they maybe) that they set up.

[anshar]

<P>I know noone asked my opinion, but I will give it anyway. As far as ports are concerned, I *do* believe wizards should get them and warlocks should not. Personally, I think warlocks should get non-fun versions of the transformation spells. Most likely in a detrimental sense. </P> <P>Obviously teleportation is possible. Up until recently, you had to ask the Overlord (or that insipid queen) for a lift, and tada! you were at your home. True, it was an infrequent thing (only once an hour), but when you are reaching across the world, finding one person and shifting them through space to a specific location, perhaps you want to limit it just to cut down on the hassle. Recent events lead us to believe that teleportation may be possible on a more regular and personal basis, though. With splitpaw a shard (odd...this seems fammiliar) allows one to teleport oneself to another specific location.</P> <P>All-told, teleportation is possible, and wizards should be the ones to perform the service. Based on the way EQ has built druids, they, too, should be allowed this service, but only at the druid rings spread about, and maybe only after some work has been done to the druid rings (I see a server-wide quest here)</P> <P>Just my 2c</P>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>anshar wrote: <P>I know noone asked my opinion, but I will give it anyway. As far as ports are concerned, I *do* believe wizards should get them and warlocks should not. Personally, I think warlocks should get non-fun versions of the transformation spells. Most likely in a detrimental sense. </P> <P>Obviously teleportation is possible. Up until recently, you had to ask the Overlord (or that insipid queen) for a lift, and tada! you were at your home. True, it was an infrequent thing (only once an hour), but when you are reaching across the world, finding one person and shifting them through space to a specific location, perhaps you want to limit it just to cut down on the hassle. Recent events lead us to believe that teleportation may be possible on a more regular and personal basis, though. With splitpaw a shard (odd...this seems fammiliar) allows one to teleport oneself to another specific location.</P> <P>All-told, teleportation is possible, and wizards should be the ones to perform the service. Based on the way EQ has built druids, they, too, should be allowed this service, but only at the druid rings spread about, and maybe only after some work has been done to the druid rings (I see a server-wide quest here)</P> <P>Just my 2c</P><hr></blockquote>You don't have to be asked to voice your opinion.As for porting being possible. Gating to your bind point, and teleporting are two different things in the game. You may not see it as that, but if the makers of the game say they are different, what we believe, or want to believe really doesn't come into play to much. Sounds harsh, but if players were allowed to write the lore of the game, no one would ever beable to agree on what it was.But under the current lore of the world, teleporting with spells, to spires and rings isn't possible, because the magic that fueled those is gone. But teleporting objects have been around before the destruction of Luclin, that were not powered by the magic of the moon.Teleportation is possible. Just not via spells like in EQ1.

[anshar]

<P>Yes, we do (unfortunately) have to worry about semantics when dealing with these things. I love words, and I understand how words can mean different things at different times. I still cannot get around the thought that 'calling' to your 'bind point' *is* teleportation. I understand what you mean by the makers of the game differentiating the two, but I cannot get my mind around this.</P> <P>Having said that, let's take the idea of calling to bind and examine it. I am a dark elf. My bind point is in Longshadow Alley. Was I born here? No. When my bind was set here, was there some connection that would make this place special by the law of sympathy? No. Umm...did I perform some binding ritual that made the place linked with me through some sort of sympathetic magic? No...however, the Overlord may have. So what does this mean? My bind point is not some innate place that my body has a mystical connection. The only way that connection could be made (and by logic, there HAS to be a connection) is by an artificial means. This means is obviously repeatable (the Overlord knows that the gates in Longshadow get rather crowded at times). So the question comes up...can the method of binding be repeated? Probably. It seems we will be able to change our bind point coming up. The next question: Can we have more than one of these 'bind-points'? This is tricky. Looking at the shard in Splitpaw, we *can* call to more than one location. However, it is unclear whether the connection to Splitpaw resides in us, or in the shard. My guess is within the shard. If it is within us, then simply put, we can have multiple bind points, and thus we could effectively teleport to multiple locations.</P> <P>Let us consider the shard then. Where do they come from? Well, the Splitpaw Gnolls obviously give them to those they trust. They have given many, many of them away. So the gnolls  found them, created them, or a mixture of the two. The other option is that by defeating certain magical creatures, a magical bond is made in a previously mystical stone. Possible, there is some sort of crystal mine, mystically influenced,  where these shards are located, and the gnolls perform some magic on them and give them to the Splitpaw Champions. This means that the gnolls know how to take the right materials and infuse them with the ability to transport their bearer (and let us not forget his possessions) through space. Possibly the shards have the innate ability to do this transport, which means that there are natural sources that can bring people and possessions through space. Possibly  the magic in the shards binds through sacrifice and becomes capable of opening a portal to a central location at which these sacrifices took place. Regardless, there is some source that allows instant transport. If there is one, there are others. Maybe we just have to find them. Maybe we are just not powerful enough to use these items unaided.</P>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>anshar wrote:<P>Yes, we do (unfortunately) have to worry about semantics when dealing with these things. I love words, and I understand how words can mean different things at different times. I still cannot get around the thought that 'calling' to your 'bind point' *is* teleportation. I understand what you mean by the makers of the game differentiating the two, but I cannot get my mind around this.</P> <P>Having said that, let's take the idea of calling to bind and examine it. I am a dark elf. My bind point is in Longshadow Alley. Was I born here? No. When my bind was set here, was there some connection that would make this place special by the law of sympathy? No. Umm...did I perform some binding ritual that made the place linked with me through some sort of sympathetic magic? No...however, the Overlord may have. So what does this mean? My bind point is not some innate place that my body has a mystical connection. The only way that connection could be made (and by logic, there HAS to be a connection) is by an artificial means. This means is obviously repeatable (the Overlord knows that the gates in Longshadow get rather crowded at times). So the question comes up...can the method of binding be repeated? Probably. It seems we will be able to change our bind point coming up. The next question: Can we have more than one of these 'bind-points'? This is tricky. Looking at the shard in Splitpaw, we *can* call to more than one location. However, it is unclear whether the connection to Splitpaw resides in us, or in the shard. My guess is within the shard. If it is within us, then simply put, we can have multiple bind points, and thus we could effectively teleport to multiple locations.</P> <P>Let us consider the shard then. Where do they come from? Well, the Splitpaw Gnolls obviously give them to those they trust. They have given many, many of them away. So the gnolls  found them, created them, or a mixture of the two. The other option is that by defeating certain magical creatures, a magical bond is made in a previously mystical stone. Possible, there is some sort of crystal mine, mystically influenced,  where these shards are located, and the gnolls perform some magic on them and give them to the Splitpaw Champions. This means that the gnolls know how to take the right materials and infuse them with the ability to transport their bearer (and let us not forget his possessions) through space. Possibly the shards have the innate ability to do this transport, which means that there are natural sources that can bring people and possessions through space. Possibly  the magic in the shards binds through sacrifice and becomes capable of opening a portal to a central location at which these sacrifices took place. Regardless, there is some source that allows instant transport. If there is one, there are others. Maybe we just have to find them. Maybe we are just not powerful enough to use these items unaided.</P> <hr></blockquote>Your inability to get your head around the difference between calling and teleporting is well, your issue. Yes, the leaders, or at least people that work for the leader set your bind point. No character is born in Freeport or Qeynos. Everyone is rescued at sea, and brought to the isle of refuge. Yes, the leader of each City sets your bind point for you. You don't do it, you don't get a choice either (right now). When you are taught your Call spell, your bind point is set at the time, and is based on your race. Now, calling and teleporting can be said to be different based on the whole idea of binding. Imagine that your soul has an invisible cord attached to it. The other end can be attached to a physical location. The cord can strech any distance. The Call spell allows your body to travel back to where the anchor is located. Teleporting doesn't have this as part of how it works. The ability to cast spells that open up portals between two locations, as it was known in the past is gone, and since the source of this power is gone, that option is lost. Could another source be found. Sure, if the makers of the game decided to allow that. Will they? Who knows. As for the shards, there is nothing to tell us that the Gnolls actually do anything to the shards. I assume that they do have an innate ability, when concentrated on, to return those who hold the shard back to the place the shard came from. And like I have said, items that allow this type are travel are more then likely and possible, and a better way of handling teleporting, because everyone could get a shard to allow them teleport.There is a difference between spells to teleport, and items that will take a player to a specific location.

[Stavenh]

Today's patch as made the arguement of porting even less likely to happen:- Harbormasters in East Freeport and Qeynos Harbor now only sell tickets to the Thundering Steppes and Nektulos Forest. These two locations now function as travel hubs to the rest of the world. From the Thundering Steppes you can travel to the Orcish Wastes, the Feerrott, and Everfrost. From Nektulos Forest you can travel to the Enchanted Lands and Lavastorm.So, now we have to got to TS or Nek, to get to the other zones. From TS you can get to Zek and Feerrott, and from Nek you can get to EL. From EL you can get to Lava, and from Zek you can get to Everfrost. I really can't see them introducing teleport spells, no matter how more fantasy like it would make the game, with the changes they made.

[anshar]

<P>Not trying to pick a fight here, but:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>"Your inability to get your head around the difference between calling and teleporting is well, your issue"</FONT></P> <DIV>is not merely my issue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><B>Main Entry:</B>  teleport</DIV> <DIV><B>Part of Speech:</B>  <I>verb</I></DIV> <DIV><B>Definition:</B>  to transfer or transmit instantaneously without physically traversing the space in between but rather by psychic or advanced technological means</DIV> <DIV>(qtd. from Dictionary.com)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It does not have anything to do with the method. Calling is, by virtual standards, teleportation. To allow calling and not some more disparate forms of teleportation is absurd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>anshar wrote: <P>Not trying to pick a fight here, but:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>"Your inability to get your head around the difference between calling and teleporting is well, your issue"</FONT></P> <DIV>is not merely my issue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><B>Main Entry:</B>  teleport</DIV> <DIV><B>Part of Speech:</B>  <I>verb</I></DIV> <DIV><B>Definition:</B>  to transfer or transmit instantaneously without physically traversing the space in between but rather by psychic or advanced technological means</DIV> <DIV>(qtd. from Dictionary.com)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It does not have anything to do with the method. Calling is, by virtual standards, teleportation. To allow calling and not some more disparate forms of teleportation is absurd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Just because two things give similar results does no mean they use the same methods or resources to do so. That is my point. Calling works on using the magic of binding to creat the ability to travel from one location to a prearranged and prepared location, via your soul. Yes, it's a form of teleportation. Teleporting from Location X to Location Y, without the use of a prearranged and prepared location is teleportation.2+2=48-4=4Both the same answer, but one is addition, one is subtraction. Not the best example, but simple enough to show what I mean. Both ways get the same answer but different ways.The magic of attuning your soul/spirit/essence to a location is what allows the ability to teleport physically back to that spot. Which is why it is different then opening a portal that teleports you or someone else to another spot. That type of teleportation worked with a different kind of magic, that is gone from the world.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> anshar wrote:<BR> <P>Not trying to pick a fight here, but:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>"Your inability to get your head around the difference between calling and teleporting is well, your issue"</FONT></P> <DIV>is not merely my issue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><B>Main Entry:</B>  teleport</DIV> <DIV><B>Part of Speech:</B>  <I>verb</I></DIV> <DIV><B>Definition:</B>  to transfer or transmit instantaneously without physically traversing the space in between but rather by psychic or advanced technological means</DIV> <DIV>(qtd. from Dictionary.com)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It does not have anything to do with the method. Calling is, by virtual standards, teleportation. To allow calling and not some more disparate forms of teleportation is absurd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I share the same flaw. I see teleporting to bind as a form of teleportation.</P> <P>I also have this crazy notion that I am the customer and that SOE is a company built around the idea of taking my money in exchange for a service. Where my insanity is most easily displayed is in the fact that I reject the notion that my opinion of how I would like the game is irrelavant. </P> <P>I understand that many people pose the arguement that the developers can do as they please, but the "lords of profit" from the plane of "corporate headquaters" has been known to smite developers who insinst on forcing "crab juice" on people who have been asking for a "soda".</P> <P>PS This thread has somehow found its way back to being a resonable debate. I have no problem with people 1 starring someone, but at least have the courage to post why you think they are wrong. I see someone is still tossing 1 stars and its pretty obvious that its not the posters.</P> <P>Now, you may 1 star me as you please :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P>

[anshar]

<P>Stavenham...I feel like I am picking on you, and I am not meaning to, but a couple more counterpoints:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>'The magic of attuning your soul/spirit/essence to a location is what allows the ability to <FONT color=#ff0000>teleport </FONT>physically back to that spot. '</FONT></P> <P>Even in arguing that returning to bind is not teleporting, you (maybe unconsiously) revert to the word teleport when describing the process. Maybe now you can see where I think it is silly to have return to bind and not teleport to X location. Or summoning Y item  that teleports Z player to X location. Any way you cut it, it *still* is teleportation. </P> <P>Also: Subtraction *is* addition...it is the addition of a negative number. This is why so many people overcomplicate math...because we look for another word to call the same thing. 8 - 4 is the same thing as 8 + (-4). You can simplify the verbage, but its still the same process.</P> <P> </P>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>anshar wrote: <P>Stavenham...I feel like I am picking on you, and I am not meaning to, but a couple more counterpoints:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>'The magic of attuning your soul/spirit/essence to a location is what allows the ability to <FONT color=#ff0000>teleport </FONT>physically back to that spot. '</FONT></P> <P>Even in arguing that returning to bind is not teleporting, you (maybe unconsiously) revert to the word teleport when describing the process. Maybe now you can see where I think it is silly to have return to bind and not teleport to X location. Or summoning Y item  that teleports Z player to X location. Any way you cut it, it *still* is teleportation. </P> <P>Also: Subtraction *is* addition...it is the addition of a negative number. This is why so many people overcomplicate math...because we look for another word to call the same thing. 8 - 4 is the same thing as 8 + (-4). You can simplify the verbage, but its still the same process.</P> <P> </P><hr></blockquote>No I don't feel picked on. My point isn't that Calling isn't teleporting, it's that it's teleporting using a different source.Lets try it this way.There is no teleporting in game that does not involve some limitations/restrictions/requirements.Spire teleporting used the magic of the moon, which was accessed via the spires and rings. It wasn't really a matter of cast spell, enter portal, ta da. There was an outside source.Calling/gating required a bind spell between one location and your soul, allowing you to physically bring your body to where your soul was attuned.The splitpaw shard harness it's own energries to send you back to it's origin.They are all forms teleportation, they are all achieved through different means. However, they require a certain kind of magic, none of which might be the same, if you don't believe in just one form of magic for the world. Which I don't think there is.Under the lore of the game, the first kind of teleporting is gone. We never had the ability to port around the world without the help of spires and rings. So those spells, no good, because unless the moon can be restored, the spires and rings are dead. Doesn't matter how many NPCs are out tehre trying, that's all they are doing is trying. Could there be other ways to teleport. Yes. Could those ways be spells that only mages get. Sure, but don't count on it. After all, we live in a world where much was lost. Will we see items like the splitpaw shard, I bet we will.

[Stavenh]

As for the math example.There is a difference between addition and subtraction.You had to change a positive number to a negative number to be able to turn subtraction to addition.You could not simply switch + to - and get the same result with out changing the nature of 4.

[Kamuj]

<DIV>The idea that a low level fighter had enough magic aptitude to attune themselves to some non-special location such that the lost art of teleportation can be made trivial and usable by non magic users is .... appalling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The idea that the most magically sensative and highly trained masters of wizardry cannot extend that process to target other non-special locations is ....... LAME.</DIV>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>As for the math example.<BR><BR>There is a difference between addition and subtraction.<BR><BR>You had to change a positive number to a negative number to be able to turn subtraction to addition.<BR><BR>You could not simply switch + to - and get the same result with out changing the nature of 4.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Respectfully, as a mathematician I would like to indicate that most intelligent mathematicians share his view that addition and subtraction are indeed the same process. As are multiplication and division. As are powers and roots. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The word subtraction simply means to add the negative of a number.</DIV> <DIV>The word division simply means to multiply by the reciprocal of a number.</DIV> <DIV>The word root simply means to raise a number to the inverse power of another number.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:27 PM</span>

[Sorano]

Honestly the ability to teleport is not a priority for me, and I fear if we ever do get it it will come at the expense of our DPS. We are already gettting the shaft DPS wise on raid mobs, and I really don't want our Warlock brethren to have yet another reason why they should have more DPS than us. Yes you can get around it by giving all mages the ability to port, but somehow I don't see that happening or they would have given all mages evac.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sorano wrote:<BR> Honestly the ability to teleport is not a priority for me, and I fear if we ever do get it it will come at the expense of our DPS. We are already gettting the shaft DPS wise on raid mobs, and I really don't want our Warlock brethren to have yet another reason why they should have more DPS than us. Yes you can get around it by giving all mages the ability to port, but somehow I don't see that happening or they would have given all mages evac.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My sig says it all.

[Tanit]

With the world being as small as it is there's really no need to make travelling even easier. Although i'd be a nice thing to have for me, i dont see it happening yet. Maybe once the world starts becoming big and it takes longer than 5 minutes to travel around, they'll add it. <div></div>

[Wikerbasket]

Here is my two cents - As a person who raids daily and has played a Wizard since the game came out, I find it very necessary for time allocation purposes for there to be some kind of mass transit system (I.E. Teleportation) in order to get people moving along to the next raid target. It is unfortunate that many people are so concerned with everything that they begin to argue with each other. If they add teleportation to Wizards, rock on. If not, then I feel we are still very capable of doing good damage and Feeding power to people in dire need. Look on the bright side, at least you're not an Assassin <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> Ignis Flameseer Innothule <div></div>

[Kalta]

<div></div>Respectfully, as a mathematician I would like to indicate that most intelligent mathematicians share his view that addition and subtraction are indeed the same process. As are multiplication and division. As are powers and roots.<div> </div><div>The word subtraction simply means to add the negative of a number.</div><div>The word division simply means to multiply by the reciprocal of a number.</div><div>The word root simply means to raise a number to the inverse power of another number.</div>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________________<p>Respectfully, as someone taking a course in computer system architecture addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are all defined just by the process of addition.  Thus, different applications of a parallel adder are only needed in the standard architecture of CPUs.</p>

[Zapo_Stormlight]

<P>If you read the storyline for how the ability to change bind points came about it sounds like teleporting may be just around the corner.</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=elements&section=development" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=elements&section=development</A></P> <P>================================================== ==========================================</P> <P> </P> <DIV> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_1.jpg">Ethurien silently touched the rim of the vessel. How could something so simple have eluded them all these years? He felt awe-struck and humbled that he should be the one to unlock the secret after so long.</P> <P align=justify>"You are quiet," Heilanna said, coming to sit beside Ethurien beside the hearth. "What troubles you?"</P> <P align=justify>"This matter of binding," Ethurien said. "For so many years, ever since the powers behind spells of translocation were diminished, we have struggled. Even the simplest of tasks, to connect oneself directly to one's homeland, was lost. And now…"</P> <P align=justify>Standing, Ethurien turned the vessel over and over in his hands. He touched the glyphs on its surface, his brow furrowed with concentration. "And now," he continued, "the secret of remaking one's binding location will be revealed."</P> <P align=justify>"Have you tested this?" Heilanna asked, folding her arms. "It is not that I do not believe you, but it seems too fast. You have only recently begun to delve into these mysteries."</P> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_2.jpg">"I have tested it," Ethurien replied quickly, though a note of concern crept into his voice. "And though I have learned how to make this happen, I am still unsure <I>why </I>it is happening. Why now? Is there something else at work that makes this possible? I am not one to question the gift of knowledge, but yes, I admit this troubles me a little."</P> <P align=justify>The Erudite held the small engraved bowl aloft for a moment, raising it in silent prayer to the cardinal directions. Heilanna followed him as he left his home near Qeynos.</P> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_3.jpg">Not far outside the city's gates, Ethurien stopped. He knelt and took a fistful of loose soil from the roadside and placed it into the vessel.</P> <P align=justify>"The glyph!" Heilanna gasped, startled.</P> <P align=justify>Though obscured by Ethurien's hands, the glow of a mystical glyph on the vessel traced the outlines of his fingers. Almost as quickly as it began, the glow dissipated and the vessel shattered into dust.</P> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_4.jpg">Smiling, Ethurien began a low chant. With a crackle of energy, the air around him swirled radiantly. Ethurien disappeared. Heilanna turned immediately and headed toward his home, half-afraid of what she might find. If he had not tested this thoroughly, who knows where he might transfer to…inside a wall, or high above the ground only to plummet to his death. As she breathlessly entered Starcrest Commune, she noticed a crowd forming outside the inn.</P> <P align=justify>And in its center, assuming a modest demeanor, stood Ethurien, who had unlocked one of the many arcane secrets of the past.</P>Change Your Bind Point <DIV align=justify> <UL> <LI><I>You may now complete a quest that gives you the ability to set your bind point to any location in your home city. </I></LI> <LI><I>Citizens of either Qeynos or Freeport can undertake the quest to gain this ability. </I></LI> <LI><I>Those seeking this new way to bind themselves to their hometowns need only learn the secret from either Ethurien in Antonica or Heilanna in the Commonlands. </I></LI> <LI><I>After you gain the ability to bind yourself to a new location, your Call of Qeynos or Call of the Overlord spells will return you to that spot. </I></LI> <LI><I>You can change your bind point as often as you like, to any location in your home city itself. </I></LI></UL></DIV> <P><EM></EM> </P></DIV>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaltara wrote:<BR> Respectfully, as a mathematician I would like to indicate that most intelligent mathematicians share his view that addition and subtraction are indeed the same process. As are multiplication and division. As are powers and roots. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The word subtraction simply means to add the negative of a number.</DIV> <DIV>The word division simply means to multiply by the reciprocal of a number.</DIV> <DIV>The word root simply means to raise a number to the inverse power of another number.</DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________________<BR><BR> <P>Respectfully, as someone taking a course in computer system architecture addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are all defined just by the process of addition.  Thus, different applications of a parallel adder are only needed in the standard architecture of CPUs.</P><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Translation: All of these mathematical operations can be completed by using an addition machine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Correct.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, these proccess have different algebraic rules that apply to them. These rules are used by mathematicians to re-arrange equations in an attempt to find a resolution to a problem. For this reason, these operations are considered to be seperate processes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Computers apply a brute force approach to the task of solving mathematical problems. While I can userstand this approach leads you to consider these operations in a more general way, the original context of the statement was from the point of view of mathematics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zapo_Stormlight wrote:<BR> <P>If you read the storyline for how the ability to change bind points came about it sounds like teleporting may be just around the corner.</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=elements&section=development" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=elements§ion=development</A></P> <P>================================================== ==========================================</P> <P> </P> <DIV> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_1.jpg">Ethurien silently touched the rim of the vessel. How could something so simple have eluded them all these years? He felt awe-struck and humbled that he should be the one to unlock the secret after so long.</P> <P align=justify>"You are quiet," Heilanna said, coming to sit beside Ethurien beside the hearth. "What troubles you?"</P> <P align=justify>"This matter of binding," Ethurien said. "For so many years, ever since the powers behind spells of translocation were diminished, we have struggled. Even the simplest of tasks, to connect oneself directly to one's homeland, was lost. And now…"</P> <P align=justify>Standing, Ethurien turned the vessel over and over in his hands. He touched the glyphs on its surface, his brow furrowed with concentration. "And now," he continued, "the secret of remaking one's binding location will be revealed."</P> <P align=justify>"Have you tested this?" Heilanna asked, folding her arms. "It is not that I do not believe you, but it seems too fast. You have only recently begun to delve into these mysteries."</P> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_2.jpg">"I have tested it," Ethurien replied quickly, though a note of concern crept into his voice. "And though I have learned how to make this happen, I am still unsure <I>why </I>it is happening. Why now? Is there something else at work that makes this possible? I am not one to question the gift of knowledge, but yes, I admit this troubles me a little."</P> <P align=justify>The Erudite held the small engraved bowl aloft for a moment, raising it in silent prayer to the cardinal directions. Heilanna followed him as he left his home near Qeynos.</P> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_3.jpg">Not far outside the city's gates, Ethurien stopped. He knelt and took a fistful of loose soil from the roadside and placed it into the vessel.</P> <P align=justify>"The glyph!" Heilanna gasped, startled.</P> <P align=justify>Though obscured by Ethurien's hands, the glow of a mystical glyph on the vessel traced the outlines of his fingers. Almost as quickly as it began, the glow dissipated and the vessel shattered into dust.</P> <P align=justify><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/en//features/elements/binding_4.jpg">Smiling, Ethurien began a low chant. With a crackle of energy, the air around him swirled radiantly. Ethurien disappeared. Heilanna turned immediately and headed toward his home, half-afraid of what she might find. If he had not tested this thoroughly, who knows where he might transfer to…inside a wall, or high above the ground only to plummet to his death. As she breathlessly entered Starcrest Commune, she noticed a crowd forming outside the inn.</P> <P align=justify>And in its center, assuming a modest demeanor, stood Ethurien, who had unlocked one of the many arcane secrets of the past.</P>Change Your Bind Point <DIV align=justify> <UL> <LI><I>You may now complete a quest that gives you the ability to set your bind point to any location in your home city. </I></LI> <LI><I>Citizens of either Qeynos or Freeport can undertake the quest to gain this ability. </I></LI> <LI><I>Those seeking this new way to bind themselves to their hometowns need only learn the secret from either Ethurien in Antonica or Heilanna in the Commonlands. </I></LI> <LI><I>After you gain the ability to bind yourself to a new location, your Call of Qeynos or Call of the Overlord spells will return you to that spot. </I></LI> <LI><I>You can change your bind point as often as you like, to any location in your home city itself. </I></LI></UL></DIV> <P><EM></EM> </P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Mage Tower in South Qeynos.</DIV> <DIV>Blue portal near Telamina Garendell.</DIV> <DIV>A pile of books on the floor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Examine, then click "The Ulteran Spires"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"This book is filled with all sorts of arcane formulas and complex engineering blueprints. Some of the sketches bare a striking similarity to the ruined spires found throughout the Shattered Lands. Clearly only the most intellectual persons on Norath could ever understand this, but there are a few pages that catch your attention."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Read the rest. There is good reason to believe that even the lore supports the idea that teleportation may be returning.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These books have been there for a long time. They are not new.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kamujin on <SPAN class=date_text>08-07-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:04 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kamujin on <span class=date_text>08-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:04 PM</span>

[Izzypop]

<P>  Porting in eq1 was a PITA.  Sure it was cool when my wizzie was level 40ish and I could hang out in the nexus before pop came out and make some cash, but it just remains a pain to this day for many characters to get places in eq1.  To the day I retired I was hunted down to the ends of norath, luclin, and the planes to port people to some obsure location or a plane like hate/sky.  Clerics who go to rez a friend in WW still need a port and evac through sirens grotto and this just leads to more down time in a game.  The boats in eq2 are a better system except maybe from a roll playing perspective.</P> <P>  Speaking of a roleplaying perspective didn't the gods destroy all porting abilities?  I though gods shutdown all the pyramids, combine portals, and druid rings as part of their war on mortals.  From everything I have read, hell even in the introduction to the game before you go to the noobie isle it speaks of how the gods destroyed the power of all the teleportion rings/pryamids.</P> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Izzypop wrote:<BR> <P> Porting in eq1 was a PITA.  Sure it was cool when my wizzie was level 40ish and I could hang out in the nexus before pop came out and make some cash, but it just remains a pain to this day for many characters to get places in eq1.  To the day I retired I was hunted down to the ends of norath, luclin, and the planes to port people to some obsure location or a plane like hate/sky.  Clerics who go to rez a friend in WW still need a port and evac through sirens grotto and this just leads to more down time in a game.  The boats in eq2 are a better system except maybe from a roll playing perspective.</P> <P>  Speaking of a roleplaying perspective didn't the gods destroy all porting abilities?  I though gods shutdown all the pyramids, combine portals, and druid rings as part of their war on mortals.  From everything I have read, hell even in the introduction to the game before you go to the noobie isle it speaks of how the gods destroyed the power of all the teleportion rings/pryamids.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Read the post above yours. There are some interesting points made about how the Lore is suggesting the return of ports.</P> <P>For the record, I loved porting peeps. Its was not a "chore" to me. It was part of roleplaying a wizard. It gave me something else to enjoy in the game besides constantly grinding levels.</P> <P><BR> </P>