A few questions about Wizards

[Inuyasha6]

<DIV>Ok , I have neither a Wiz or a war , and was thinking about making one of each. ( Already have 2 lvl 15 sorcs.) And as far as I can see , I like wizards more , I mean every Warlock strategy is based around Bony Grasp is it not? And I hear it is getting nerfed. I have read topics in both forums ( War and WIz) Can any high lvl wizards please post some solo strategy?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT also if any 50 Wizs could post [Removed for Content] of teh damage done by Ice comet master I and/or Adept III. I know master I was discovered on najena sometime today/this week.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Inuyasha623 on <span class=date_text>07-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:48 PM</span>

[Asterra]

Talking about soloing, once either of the two classes gets their AE root, the entire game changes for them.  There is some argument over which class does more DPS on a single target at level 50, but I think very little argument about level 49 and below.  Warlocks do a fair bit more DPS on single targets and many _times_ more DPS on groups.  Unless you plan to continue soloing once the grind is over, there's no question at all here.  And speaking as one of the first Wizards gamewide to hit level 50, I will straight up tell you that Wizards cannot currently match Warlocks for single-target DPS even at level 50.  Now, having said all that, the two classes are in need of such an extensive overhaul that everything I've just said will probably be rendered unhelpful after the impending changes are in.

[Inuyasha6]

<DIV>Wizards get an AOE root? Is it breakable?And what lvl?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Inuyasha623 on <span class=date_text>07-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:59 PM</span>

[Asterra]

They get it about halfway through level 41.  It's cold-based, so rather subject to frequent resists (mobs tend to be resistant to cold more than anything else in the game), but if it lands, it will not break until the spell runs out, although it's never safe to depend on the spell lasting a consistent span of time.  Now, don't read too much into this.  It's a great spell but the fact is it's needed because both classes would be quite out of luck indeed without it.  Furthermore, one still must choose their targets with care; a recent nerf aimed exclusively at soloing Sorcerers has made it excessively hazardous to take on anything but a straight melee-type encounter.  The same cannot be said for most other classes.  In fact, even Coercers have a much easier (if slower, for now) time of soloing.

[Tar~Palantir]

<P>Unless we become ninjas in stunning and then re-rooting after the initial root breaks, we may as well hit /kill, or </P> <P>/reduce my health by 33%</P>

[Inuyasha6]

So , if DPS/Soloing is on my mind. Youi would recomend Warlock?

[Asterra]

There are two answers to that question.  1: For the time being, between the two classes, no question.  Warlock wins every facet of consideration.  2: After the revamp, things are a little less certain of course, until we know what all it entails.  My own guess, based on the current history which showcases Warlocks as SOE's darling invention and therefore immune to class inadequacies, is that Warlocks will remain king in all respects, while both classes are temporarily brought above all other classes for DPS - if by an insufficient margin - until the inevitable trickle of better melee weapons supercedes the balancing effort.  But the specific answer will remain the same, I expect: Warlocks are the surest bet.  At the very least, what we're _not_ going to see is a retroactive downgrading of Warlock AE power, so no matter what the upcoming changes bring, Warlocks will still be capable of producing DPS figures in the 600s.

[ailees]

<div></div>I agree with Astera : I don't know what will be the modification, but it is highly probable than Warlock will stay king of pure DPS, and wizzies will stay behind. Now will wizards have much more DPS, nobody knows. May be they will, maybe their 'utility' will be reinforced. Sure thing is that warlock will be better killers. <div></div><p>Message Edited by ailees on <span class=date_text>07-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 AM</span>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>ailees wrote:I agree with Astera : I don't know what will be the modification, but it is highly probable than Warlock will stay king of pure DPS, and wizzies will stay behind. Now will wizards have much more DPS, nobody knows. May be they will, maybe their 'utility' will be reinforced. Sure thing is that warlock will be better killers. <hr></blockquote>Warlocks and wizards are supposed to be very close to eachother. Noone knows which class will have a higher dps after combat changes, so i dont know where you base "</span><span>Sure thing is that warlock will be better killers</span><span>" on.</span><div></div>

[katan_bart]

they are basing it on soe's love of the warlock class, as stated above. <div></div>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>To the question of why warlocks should remain on top, I have never gotten a good answer.</DIV>

[Splatterpunk28]

<DIV>Well if SoE is looking at the forums and considering what the players want, it seems pretty clear that wizards want to remain Kings of Complaint, if nothing else.  I say...don't disappoint them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm mostly joking, but seriously guys -- can ya exaggerate the problems and be any more negative about the upcoming changes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In response to the OP:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The solo'ing techniques of heroic mobs for warlocks and wizards are exactly the same.  They both depend heavily on their level 40root to solo "heroics"; otherwise, there is no need for the spell if you just want to xp fast (open with a huge nuke, hit your fast stun, cast another nuke -- mob should be dead).  If the mobs have unusually high resists or hps, start out with Frozen Manacles (low level root) and then proceed with the above pattern.  Woohoo -- mindless, fast xp.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one knows what will change with revamp in regards to socerors dps, my advice since DoTs will stack after expansion, is choose whatever you like.  If you have 2wizards or 2warlocks, then you can spend less time debuffing, therefore kill mobs faster.  If you choose 1wizard and 1warlock, your buffs will stack.  Wizard = heat, cold; Warlock = poison, disease.  If you are going to be Qeynos based and often group/raid with guildies, keep in mind that other "good classes" also debuff heat and cold, so there are bonuses in choosing wizard; if you are Freeport based, many "evil classes" debuff poison and disease.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our dps will swing back and forth until the game no longer exists, so I wouldn't base your decision on what the current situation is or hyped to be.    </DIV>

[Asterra]

<span><blockquote><hr>can ya exaggerate the problems and be any more negative about the upcoming changes? <hr></blockquote></span>This sounds a little accusatory but there really can be no blaming Wizards for anticipating the worst.  The most positive moment in the entire history of Wizards in EQ2 (the last attempted fix to DPS) was immediately quashed by the instant realization of how much better Warlocks were, and ultimately reduced to nothingness by the fact that almost every other class that was even partially DPS-enabled provided superior numbers.  This is not a good track record!  In fact it could not be worse.  I, for one, will cut SOE some slack when they prove they can get it right, but I'm not going to pay any undeserved faith to them after the seven months I've already experienced.

[Lamprey_02]

Don't be overly influenced by the complainers when choosing your class. Wizard is a perfectly good DPS class, its only failure is the fact that Warlocks slightly outdamage them. Nobody has ever said "no, let's not invite this wizard but wait and find a warlock instead" and nobody ever will.In the end, go with what you prefer - fire, ice & utility, or poison, disease and a slight damage edge. And try not to get caught up in the class envy, it's a waste of time <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Splatterpunk28 wrote:<DIV>Well if SoE is looking at the forums and considering what the players want, it seems pretty clear that wizards want to remain Kings of Complaint, if nothing else.  I say...don't disappoint them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm mostly joking, but seriously guys -- can ya exaggerate the problems and be any more negative about the upcoming changes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In response to the OP:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The solo'ing techniques of heroic mobs for warlocks and wizards are exactly the same.  They both depend heavily on their level 40root to solo "heroics"; otherwise, there is no need for the spell if you just want to xp fast (open with a huge nuke, hit your fast stun, cast another nuke -- mob should be dead).  If the mobs have unusually high resists or hps, start out with Frozen Manacles (low level root) and then proceed with the above pattern.  Woohoo -- mindless, fast xp.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one knows what will change with revamp in regards to socerors dps, my advice since DoTs will stack after expansion, is choose whatever you like.  If you have 2wizards or 2warlocks, then you can spend less time debuffing, therefore kill mobs faster.  If you choose 1wizard and 1warlock, your buffs will stack.  Wizard = heat, cold; Warlock = poison, disease.  If you are going to be Qeynos based and often group/raid with guildies, keep in mind that other "good classes" also debuff heat and cold, so there are bonuses in choosing wizard; if you are Freeport based, many "evil classes" debuff poison and disease.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our dps will swing back and forth until the game no longer exists, so I wouldn't base your decision on what the current situation is or hyped to be.    </DIV><hr></blockquote>Sure, they can remain the king of complaints. Has much as many complain about our power transfers and such, you take one single spell away, lower it anyway, and suddenly, the cry will be, SONY your making me useless!Though only a few would be sad to mezz taken away. Even me, the most gung ho wizard thinks these spells just aren't worth it.

[Asterra]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nobody has ever said "no, let's not invite this wizard but wait and find a warlock instead" and nobody ever will.<hr></blockquote>Rubbish.  Take my guild, for example.  We have two Wizards.  Both were among the first six or seven members of the guild, before 2005 was even upon us.  Since then, the guild has made no effort, and will make no effort for the forseeable future, to recruit new Wizards.  Meanwhile we've had something around a hundred members join and/or leave.  We welcome Warlocks with arms wide open.  This policy is based on pragmatism and simple facts about class viability.  Had we magnanimously pretended that Wizards were something approaching a good class to have, we'd have been drowning in the poor souls by now.  To our detriment.  As a further case in point, the two (very senior) Wizards in our guild are regularly left out of raids, and when it comes time to attend to Splitpaw raids, thanks to the most unwelcome advent of no-drop raid loot, there is no small amount of discussion as to what takes priority: the Wizards' seniority or the basic desirability of classes that actually fulfill their defined function. Claims that Wizards don't really have any problems, even when tempered with the token allowance that Warlocks have a "slight edge", really do seem nothing less than ludicrous in the face of the overwhelming general opinion of the class.  It may be time to hang that particular hat; it just doesn't fit anymore. </span> <div></div>

[Lamprey_02]

That doesn't necessarily mean wizards are worthless as much as it means your guild is bigoted. Join a guild that puts people ahead of the classes they play and you'll have much more fun playing the game <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Stavenh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asterra wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nobody has ever said "no, let's not invite this wizard but wait and find a warlock instead" and nobody ever will.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Rubbish.  Take my guild, for example.  We have two Wizards.  Both were among the first six or seven members of the guild, before 2005 was even upon us.  Since then, the guild has made no effort, and will make no effort for the forseeable future, to recruit new Wizards.  Meanwhile we've had something around a hundred members join and/or leave.  We welcome Warlocks with arms wide open.  This policy is based on pragmatism and simple facts about class viability.  Had we magnanimously pretended that Wizards were something approaching a good class to have, we'd have been drowning in the poor souls by now.  To our detriment.  As a further case in point, the two (very senior) Wizards in our guild are regularly left out of raids, and when it comes time to attend to Splitpaw raids, thanks to the most unwelcome advent of no-drop raid loot, there is no small amount of discussion as to what takes priority: the Wizards' seniority or the basic desirability of classes that actually fulfill their defined function.<BR><BR>Claims that Wizards don't really have any problems, even when tempered with the token allowance that Warlocks have a "slight edge", really do seem nothing less than ludicrous in the face of the overwhelming general opinion of the class.  It may be time to hang that particular hat; it just doesn't fit anymore.<BR></SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No one claims wizards don't have problems. And I would say that warlocks have more then a token edge.</P> <P>But you also say Sony insults us, because of a cosmetic reason (protoflame graphics for master version), that they have a vendetta against wizards.  A guild that treats any members the way your does probablly sucks to be in anyway. After all, besides the crappy way they treat you, which you tolerate, they have had hundreds of people join and leave. I don't think the way they act is so much against wizards, but a general issue in all things. </P> <P>Or maybe you might be exaggerating things.<BR></P>

[Dramadon]

I don't mind warlocks having a higher dps than wizards. This is not an issue for me so long as wizards still out dps other classes regularly. However, please don't make me be stunned for an entire raid. These mana pumping spells completely defeat the purpose of a wizard and they desperately need to be revamped. If it weren't for this curse we have, wizards would be respectable in dps (assuming we could actually land spells on the epic mobs). Possible solutions: 1. Get rid of them. I won't cry about it. 2. Get rid of the stun on them. Make them a true canni spell and cost us health to use. Increase the amount of power given and increase the recharge time to use them. Either of these changes and I will be able to at least attempt what I am supposed to be doing. (Mob resists are another issue but I guess I have a hope that lure spells will be included in the expansion). <div></div>

[Asterra]

<span><blockquote><hr>I don't mind warlocks having a higher dps than wizards. <div></div><hr></blockquote></span>I do.

[Dramadon]

<span><blockquote><hr>Asterra wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>I don't mind warlocks having a higher dps than wizards. <div></div><hr></blockquote></span>I do. <hr></blockquote> Ok, that's fine...but I don't really understand what the big deal is so long as we are out dpsing non-sorceror based classes. Granted, the difference might be huge right now on a raid, but that's because we spend the whole darn thing stunned or resisted. Get rid of the stun and this helps. There is very little difference in dps in groups because mobs die too fast to really give any chance for a large difference in dps.</span><div></div>

[Asterra]

The main reason Warlocks out-DPS us on raids has to do with the difference in AE capability.  This is not to underplay the resistance problems or the basic fact of inferior direct DPS, but those problems are nowhere near as responsible for disparity as the differences between our AE repertoires.

[Dramadon]

<span><blockquote><hr>Asterra wrote:The main reason Warlocks out-DPS us on raids has to do with the difference in AE capability.  This is not to underplay the resistance problems or the basic fact of inferior direct DPS, but those problems are nowhere near as responsible for disparity as the differences between our AE repertoires. <hr></blockquote>Fair enough. This doesn't diminish the fact that we are still potentially massive damage dealers in a raid, provided all of our spells would work properly and they were able to land on mobs. If Warlocks are going to be the Mr. and Ms. AE, then wizards should wipe the floor with them in single target AE (which I don't believe we do). Either way, this isn't something that will prevent me from having fun. Being stunned for an entire raid prevents me from having fun.</span><div></div>

[Dramadon]

Bah, meant to say wizards should dominate Single target DD, seeing as single target AE doesn't make much sense :p <div></div>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Asterra wrote:The main reason Warlocks out-DPS us on raids has to do with the difference in AE capability.  This is not to underplay the resistance problems or the basic fact of inferior direct DPS, but those problems are nowhere near as responsible for disparity as the differences between our AE repertoires. <hr></blockquote>You focus to much on numbers, and not enough on actuallity of the game.Fast is better then duration in many cases. If resists on mobs weren't what they are, it would be a different case for raids. While warlocks would be aeing to take down the extra in the encounter, wizards would be piling on damaging on the main mob in the encounter. On raids, I take it to organize which wizards are debuffing with what spells. This has several effects. One, we are not over writting each others debuffs. Two, the best possible version of the spell is being used. Third, less time debuffing means more times nuking. On raids like the Froglok one, where resists aren't an issue, 3 wizards can lower a mobs elemental mitigation around 4k. Add in some other peoples debuffs, like swashies, that can lower cold another 700, and you can get up to 5-6k in lowered mitigation. Your spells are gonna land, and land hard. Three wizards with ice comet adpt3 are going to average around 9k, while 3 warlocks are going to average oh 2.5k since I don't believe thier level 50 dot stacks from multiple warlocks. If it does, that's still less damage then wizards. See, 3 wizards can all land ice comet at the same time. Three warlocks can't land the same dot at the same time.But it's moot at this point since so many raid mobs just shrug off our spells.