The Raiding Wizard

[Yaotzi]

Basically about raiding with a wizard and our usefulness in raids. For sure, raids are bad as , most of us signed up to be a wizard for dps. Has that happened? Nope. While grouping and leveling as a wizard is not so bad, honestly I thought we did pretty decent leveling, the high end scene has been horrible. At least 75% of the raid targets have extremely high resists to either fire or ice if not both. Im tired of seeing my damages even with full debuffs (icy wind, the two coils, roughly 2500 heat and cold debuff) still doing something around 200 heat damage for ball of flames when it should be around 900. Ice Comet seems to be completely broken or SOE has implemented a cruel trick on wizards. Most RAID mobs are completely immune to it. No damage no resists, check your logs if you dont believe this (Yes Ice Comet is great for killing adds of a raid target but not the actual named) Then we get to the real usefulness of wizards, yup, you guessed it utility. The increase in fire resist makes us a great partner for darathar, nothing like two groups completely immune to his fire ae. And our other usefulness, power feeding. Now we have 3 concurrent feeding spells we can use, however, one is broken (Vitalic Harvest), it does not feed power at all go ahead and drain all your power and check, and then laugh at yourself while you sit there stunned for 15 seconds with no extra power. With our other 2 feeding spells are extremely good (Essential Intromission and Fiery Efflux) I did not sign up as a wizard to spend half the raid stunned. Power low on raids for healers with GEB and RoI, you betcha.. Healers are always running low, or the main tank is low, if not both. Especially the more intemsive raids or the ones where you just cant pull together enough healers or enough dps or you get a group of adds or groups arent as effeciently put together as they should be, or hell maybe its just a tough raid target. With the new added nerf to RoI, we get to have even more fun raiding, we get to feed half the time, and stay stunned the other half. Honestly if you plan to make a wizard for the high end game stop where you are at. Reroll. Sony has tricked most of us, even Moorgard said himself we are suppose to have roughly same overall DPS (Yes it will be different from warlock depending on raid mob, because they SHOULD have different resists, but this doesnt seem to be the case) Or maybe Sony is trying to save the class? Afterall we have no real usefulness during raids, maybe they are trying to give us some use by forcing others to be lower on power so we have something to do? Feel free to voice your opinions, however please keep comments constructive. (If you gripe saying i have flawed logic make sure you are an active raider, and keep in mind Darathar has stopped becoming an accomplishment) <div></div>

[Skwor]

<P>Waiting for some warlock to yet again come into another wizard thread, 1 star it, and then tell us we are all to stupid to understand things are just fine.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think you did a good job summing it up for raids.</P> <p>Message Edited by Skwor on <span class=date_text>06-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:53 AM</span>

[tennj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skwor wrote:<BR> <P>Waiting for some warlock to yet again come into another wizard thread, 1 star it, and then tell us we are all to stupid to understand things are just fine.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think you did a good job summing it up for raids.</P> <P>Message Edited by Skwor on <SPAN class=date_text>06-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:53 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, I'm a warlock and I've given no rating to any of the posts on this thread.  I'm also going to explain my feelings on this situation without telling you that you are stupid.  Things are not just fine.  Things are, however, getting better.  There are basically two types of raid mobs in this game, raid mobs set with very high fire/ice resists and raid mobs set with very high poison resists.  The other part of this is that if the mob has very high poison resist, he uses some type of poison AE and on the other hand, if the mob has a very high heat/cold resist, he uses a heat/cold AE. (I know, not every encounter is like this, but it does seem to be a trend that is forming)  What happens is that if you are not able to hit the mob with your main attack spells, you are still very needed in order to buff the group with the proper resist and mitigate the AE.  The new raid zone (spirits of the lost) has many named raid mobs that are highly resistant or just plain immune to poison, those same mobs also use poison as their main offensive spells and can be nuked to the ground with fire/ice spells. </P> <P>Is it balanced?  No. As it stands right now there more mobs immune to ice commet that require heat/cold buffs than there are mobs that are immune to poison attacks and require poison buffs.  Do Wizards have a legitimate beef with this?  Sure. </P> <P>I'm not here to say, "Oh shut up before I get nerfed everything is fine."  I save that line for the lvl 40 wizards who complain that they don't have enough DPS:smileytongue:.  All I'm saying is that since this is the newest raid zone, perhaps that is a sign that more riad mobs will be immune to poison and less immune to heat/cold.  To be honest with you, I love this idea.  When I'm buffing the main tank group, I'm needed, and I'm in the raid with 2 other classes that have good poison buffs, that's it.  When I'm there for damage and only damage, I'm filling a DPS role with about 8 other classes.  With a 24 person raid cap, what raids do you think I'll be more likely to have to sit out on? </P>

[Yaotzi]

Here is the problem - Do you really need those extra resists both the wizard and warlock class needs for those AE's? Do you need a Warlock in the MT Group for Venekor? Do you need a Wizard in the MT group for Darathar? (While it does makes things easier not really) Spirits of the Lost is a great zone, but not once did my guild when we complete stop and say hmm should we get the xtra resists for the healers dependant on the mobs? Did we reform at every named? Nope. The extra resists we give are just about worthless, they are NOT a requirement to successfully raid a target. However, when a mob is virtually immune to all our spells it makes us completely worthless. This goes for both warlock AND wizard, granted right now it is moreso wizard. Now if you take a look at fighters and scouts they have various types of weapons this way they can keep doing damage even if the mob is immune to one type of weapon. However, casters, unfortunately, spells do virtually no damage due to the resists. Is it really wrong to think that since fighters/scouts have a way to do damage, maybe the DPS casters should have a way as well? <div></div>

[trysta]

<P>I've pretty much given up playing my wizard when I saw this after using just about all of my debuffs on a non-epic, double up heroic.</P> <P>Your Ice Comet hits Spirit of the <something, can't remember> for 125 points of cold damage!</P> <P>I signed up to do damage, and 125 points of damage isn't damage. That's a mosquito bite. </P> <P>I've only been a part of one or two raids at level 50, and I've never felt so useless. On one, a monk out-dps'd me. I spent the entire second half of the battle stunned just to feed the tank and healer. </P><p>Message Edited by trystaad on <span class=date_text>06-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:25 PM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> trystaad wrote:<BR> <P>I've pretty much given up playing my wizard when I saw this after using just about all of my debuffs on a non-epic, double up heroic.</P> <P>Your Ice Comet hits Spirit of the for 125 points of cold damage!</P> <P>I signed up to do damage, and 125 points of damage isn't damage. That's a mosquito bite.</P> <P>I've only been a part of one or two raids at level 50, and I've never felt so useless. On one, a monk out-dps'd me. I spent the entire second half of the battle stunned just to feed the tank and healer.</P> <P>Message Edited by trystaad on <SPAN class=date_text>06-19-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:25 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Both trystaad and skwor are the voices of reason here(not including myself...).  We are mesquito bites in combat in general.   We think we rock when we send up 1500 dmg then then the warlock comes up with his arrogant demeanor:smileymad: and does 3000 dmg.  We then slink away form combat.:smileysad:</P> <P>I can't wait for the wizards to be on par with warlocks, ie when warlocks are nerfed:smileyhappy: sIan so that by the time the horrid spell changes come(if you haven't heard, the only way to increase spell dmg is by purchasing a higher grade, not by lvling) I am lvl 50.</P> <P>Now, to put up AT BEST a WEAK resistance we need adept III's to combat a warlock's adept I or app 4 for crying out loud.:smileysurprised:</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Tanit]

<span>The problem is the mobs and their resistances, not the wizard spells. They'd be fine once they do their full dmg on epic mobs.</span><span><blockquote><div></div>  </blockquote></span><div></div>

[Ennis]

<blockquote><hr>Tanith_ wrote:<span>The problem is the mobs and their resistances, not the wizard spells. They'd be fine once they do their full dmg on epic mobs.</span><span><blockquote><div></div>  </blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Don't hold your breath waiting on SoE EVER fixing this. You do not look good in that shade of blue.I spent years waiting on SoE to fix Wizards in EQ1-they never did up to the time I left the game and they have not fixed the class since.I believed them when they said they would not make the same mistakes in EQ2 that they made with the class in EQ1. They are right on that part, they made even WORSE mistakes. I have tried to be patient, I have tried to be understanding. Both of those commodities are runing short right about now. I think the chance to fix the class has passed, the perception is now that Wizards are "useless" in a raid is now set into many peoples minds.That will be very difficult to undo because any Wizard who gets into a raid will be told that they don't care if SoE "fixed" them-all they are there for is a buff [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], mana pump and taxi.IMHO the entire class should be removed from the game.<p>Message Edited by Ennis on <span class=date_text>06-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 AM</span>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>if they removed us wizards entirely and transferred our toons and gear to one other profession I would be happy. THat would be the Battle Mage.  A mage who bears sword and shield, but has fire and ice nukes. He wears heavy armour etc.  I was just fantasizing.  It was a class from a game Horizons: Empire of Istaria.  Find a fansite and look-up battle Mages.  It would prove interesting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, we are atleast as not as screwed oer as coercers are. **makes sign of cross towards coercers and mutters a prayer in latin**</DIV>

[ChosenHe]

<DIV>This thread is a waste of time.  Sorry, but you are not the first to post the same crap and you won't be the last so why bother wiht the effort.  How many here didn't know this was a problem with Wizards.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=87246" target=top><SPAN>Yaotzin!</SPAN></A>, but all that has been talked about 50 billion times already and I'm beyond sick of the same old crap being posted on weekly and sometimes daily basis.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here in the Wizard forus you can bet 100% that if a thread title includes these words it has been discussed before.  Wizard vs. Warlock, raids, DPS, damage nad photoflame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>c-ya<BR></DIV>

[trysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChosenHell wrote:<BR> <DIV>This thread is a waste of time.  Sorry, but you are not the first to post the same crap and you won't be the last so why bother wiht the effort.  How many here didn't know this was a problem with Wizards.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=87246" target=top><SPAN>Yaotzin!</SPAN></A>, but all that has been talked about 50 billion times already and I'm beyond sick of the same old crap being posted on weekly and sometimes daily basis.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here in the Wizard forus you can bet 100% that if a thread title includes these words it has been discussed before.  Wizard vs. Warlock, raids, DPS, damage nad photoflame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>c-ya<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>How is it a waste of time? I before have never started complaining about these kinds of problems until I reached level 50. As more and more wizards reach the level where our lacks and defects are increasingly noticeable, we're going to complain about them. It doesn't do to have one single post posted months ago about these issues. The only way to get our voices heard is by complaining loudly and stating what we want fixed. It's inaction that'll lead us absolutely nowhere. Why bother with the effort? Because it's <STRONG><EM>my</EM></STRONG> gaming experience that's being influenced by SOE. So what if it's been talked about 50 billion times. We'll talk about it 50 trillion times if that's what it takes to get noticed :smileymad:</P> <P>And besides, this is a public (for the most part) forum. If you don't like reading these posts, then you have 100% authority to skip over them and go to the information you want to read about. </P> <P>By the way, it's Protoflame, not photoflame.. <BR></P>

[ChosenHe]

<DIV>Its my game experience also. How can you honestly believe that what you have to say about the matter is going to impact what has been discussed(example)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you have first hand information that Wizards are not going to be fixed and it requires 500 billion more useless threads about Wizards need to be fixed.  Maybe people should read what has been discussed from both sides(SOE and players).   Why use my when in reality it is our because you are not he only wizard here.  Is your gaming experience just that more important than anyone else's.  Follow your own statement "If you don't like reading these posts, then you have 100% authority to skip over them and go to the information you want to read about.".  It goes both ways.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>c-ya</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Yaotzi]

Do me a favor and stop sidetracking my topic please ChosenHell. Notice I said constructive opinions not "I think this is a worthless post and voicing our opinions is pointless" So please get back on track this is about Wizards and Raiding nothing else nothing more. <div></div>

[OneBadAli]

<P>I have a level 50 wizzy and im fed up with it, in a raiding guild and im just a mana feeder, the immunes and resistances are much higher for fire/ice then they are for disease/poison, much much much higher.</P> <P>The problem isnt just the resistances/immunes that ruin our dps in raids, its the fact that we use to much power as compared to our counterpart warlocks(literally about double). </P> <P>Then everyone says we get ice comet at level 50 which makes up for all the crappy pre-level 50 dps, huge mana usage, and the mob resistances/immunes to cold/fire. At level 50 warlocks get devastation which can do what over 10,000 damage total? my ice comet can hit for a max of 3653 at adept 3, and thats if i use my solo debuff, my group debuff and then pray before i launch it on a solo mob. Fair once again?</P> <P>Then they are about to nerf incombat mana items, which will just ruin this character completely. Anyways, im about done with this alt. Working on a guardian and a warlock. </P> <P>They need to just put a cap on incombat mana items, say 16x3 =48 total incombat mana(or whatever...). They also need to make ROI where only Very light armor wearers can wear it. The reason why so many people are complaining about incombat mana being overpowered is because tanks, scouts, healers all wear the ROI, which was meant for casters who really need it. That accompanied with  a few whiners = incombat mana nerf which affects wizzys the most.</P> <P>Heck even warlocks health for mana spell has much better ratio then wizzies health for mana spell both at adept 3 (verified with level 50 warlock guildy). Sorry not ingame to quote what mine or his was, but their was a considerable difference.</P> <P>Its rediculous how gimped we really are, i will admit since we have a perma root were good at soloing, but im not here just to solo(and after the new mob buffs, most of the named i solo i cant without getting "resist, resist , resist, then die. I am here for raid content and this wizzy doesnt cut it at all.</P> <DIV>I'm good for the occasionaly heat buff for a group in the raid, or to mana feed and stay stunned the majority of the fight. Just how much fun is that? You have to ask yourself...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks still play it off like we dont have it near as bad as we say we do, trust me we are the step children to warlocks and i think we might always be. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope nobody creates another wizard, just warlocks until these issues are fixed. Those of u who say you dont care about end game content , you will change your mind once u hit 50. When u get there your a mana feeding, crappy dps having mage. Congrats.... and thanks SOE! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was 6 months ago that moorgard posted about issues on balancing with warlocks/wizards, he never did anything. Yet he's ready to nerf incombat mana in days notice. He pushed it off for this long, now his excuse is "it was coming in the new balance patch/ spell revamps." Well... he acknowledged these problems way before this balance patch was even an itch in someones pants, yet nothing was done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont understand them, i really dont. They force us to come to these forums month in and month out to first complain, then b!tch, then whine, then threaten to reroll or just quit. They ignore 100's of wizzys concerning this for over 6 months, then one whiner on the forums complains about incombat mana and days later they change it. Its silly, its stupid, its ignorant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Am i whining? yes, i have invested way to much time and effort just to get the same cold shoulder. </DIV> <DIV>Are they whining on the warlock forums? no.. why? because they are all so much more mature then us? no... why??? because they have it so much better then we do, its not even funny trying to compare the 2. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry im really tired and im sure it doesnt make sense? but i never do anyways. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just another frustrated wizzy who has lost hope in this game....</DIV>