Back to the REAL ISSUE

[EvilAmi]

<DIV>So wizards and warlocks can solo a group(x2) mob.. maybe warlocks can do it a little "better." So what? The only people that matters to are farmers and loot [Removed for Content]. Posting about solo'ing group(x2) mobs seems like more of a cry for a wizard/warlock nerf then anything. I wouldnt be suprised if they nerfed ring of cold after this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The real issue with wizards is the huge amount of raid targets that are highly resistant to heat or/and cold.. or just flat out immune. This almost nullifies us in a lot of raids and we are stuck transferring power to healers or MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. - PLEASE stop crying about wizards. If played right we are hands down the best dps against a mob with no resistances. Some of you probably need to rethink your playing style.</DIV>

[Keitho]

<DIV>There are raid mobs resistent to poisen. .....................................Vaz'gok the Cursed......Venekor..........ummmmm theres some more I think.....</DIV>

[adamflanagan]

<span><blockquote><hr>Keithoth wrote:<div>There are raid mobs resistent to poisen. .....................................Vaz'gok the Cursed......Venekor..........ummmmm theres some more I think.....</div><hr></blockquote></span>yes. true. however, there are a LOT more raid targets resistant or completely immune to fire/ice damage than poison/disease. every class should be ineffective in some raids but not the majority of raids. if you want more details look at <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=10751" target=_blank>this</a><div></div>

[Raminicus]

<P>You're right, but one thing to realize is that Warlocks (as far as I know) don't get very many disease based damage spells at all.  I think maybe 2 or 3 and they're not even close to being heavy hitters.  When a mob is immune to ice you still have some fire nukes to use.  When a mob is immune to poison i think we have a stun and an AOE that does 200 dmg on a 25sec timer....</P> <P> </P>

[Sac_jok]

<P>I have written this is other threads as a solution to a problem...either we can try to see if it works or we can keep complaining:</P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I believe ALL mage tyoe classes need a boost/fix, but ONLY in their area of expertice...not intruding on some other class position. From all the reading I have been doing on every Mage type forum I see one thing in common...WE ALL NEED FIXING.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Why is it that every class speaks out against another...instead why dont we ALL post similar threads within our boards stating "WE NEED FIXING" instead of stating "THEY NEED NERFING". If we are ALL supposed to be mage then why don't we ALL fight for the same thing in the game...it would help a lot more if we all asked for the same thing which is fixing instead of asking in piecesto fix us and break them. If we continue to ask in pieces then that is how SOE will fix the game (slowly and in pieces).</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I mean come on guys, we may not think SOE listens to us, but they do...when we complain about our job sucks and theirs is too strong, SOE will break one and fix the other. In doing tis the cycle continues...instead we should ALL create ONE thread in our forums (to gather a list of faults with OUR OWN class) then compile the list onto this forum right here Spells, Abilites and Combat Arts. In doing this I believe (or at least hope) it would be much more effective since the Devs will only have to look in once place to find the problems with Mage Types.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>I for one would be more than happy to volunteer some (not all) my time to helping organize problems in the Warlock forum.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Please Mages for the sake of having FUN with a Video Game that we all try to enjoy...quit adding to the problem and start helping.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>This from a Warlock that does not want to see his class or ANY other gimped, nerfed or further broken.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0000 size=2>Thank you.</FONT></P>

[Sorano]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raminicus wrote:<BR> <P>You're right, but one thing to realize is that Warlocks (as far as I know) don't get very many disease based damage spells at all.  I think maybe 2 or 3 and they're not even close to being heavy hitters.  When a mob is immune to ice you still have some fire nukes to use.  When a mob is immune to poison i think we have a stun and an AOE that does 200 dmg on a 25sec timer....</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why is it so hard for people to get that most raid mobs are IMMUNE to cold and HIGHLY RESISTANT to fire? We are not just whining over the fact that we can't use our cold based nukes. What people fail to realise is that all our debuffs are cold based, so we cannot land them on most raid mobs. Even in a normal heroic encounter, not debuffing a mob will significantly lower your DPS, but couple this with the fact that raid mobs are also highly fire resistant and you can see why wizards have issues with our dps. <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To all those Warlocks out there who keep pointing out that certain raid mobs are immune to their damage as well, all I have to say is would you like to swap all our immune raid mobs with yours? </DIV> <DIV>No? </DIV> <DIV>Thought so.</DIV>

[Keitho]

<DIV>Looking at the list of mobs heres highly resistent or hard to even attack mobs:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Venekor (4x)</DIV> <DIV>Arch Lich Uludan (4x)</DIV> <DIV>Vaz'Gok (4x)</DIV> <DIV>Xiggalg (2x)</DIV> <DIV>Asphyxia (2x)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dunno about Lord Nagalik (4x) ..I always miss that raid....and Forget about Acrimoniad (2x)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and where is Viscious (2x) hehe i dont recall</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but   We have Mainly ALL poisen spells. theres no disease.</DIV> <DIV>Soooo when mobs resist poisen ...we are screwed go Nil Distoartion 200 damage  ever 1 ou tof 10 times it hits...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[EvilAmi]

<DIV>I think the whole idea of immunites is pretty lame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make the raid mob smarter, make him do more damage, give him more health, but dont nullify certain classes in certain raid situations. The worst is magic resistances, a melee can always switch slash with crush but wizards and warlocks cant change the elemental type of their nuke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only real solution is to give warlocks/wizards more spells on the same timers as existing spells but different elementals. Either that or rework existing mobs so that they arent all immune to cold.</DIV>

[Asterra]

Even if they fix Wizard raid resistances / immunities - a BIG "if", seeing as how they've allowed the problem to exist for the entire half year the game has been live - that won't address the other side of the problem: Wizard AEs are a joke.  They are almost always inferior to direct damage, even against groups of many mobs.  Contrast this with the Warlock variant, in which case the best direct damage just happens to be AE at the same time.  If you're tempted to suggest that AE is a minor component of the typical raid encounter.. I don't know.  Stop reading. It boggles the mind that the devs could actually acknowledge Wizard AEs, when they finally changed around Fiery Pulse / Inferno, and fail even then to recognize what piles of dung those spells are.

[Ennis]

Asterra,I don't care about AE's in a raid situation.I did not become a Wizard to be a "shotgun". I became a Wizard to be the sniper with the Elephant Gun-the "go to guy" when you need a mob stopped or dropped FAST.Let Warlocks have their AE's.Give me "lure" line of spells that are rarely resisted. Give me recast timers that are not a crippling joke. Give me a hate reduction spell or have our spells naturally generate less hate then other "pure caster" classes.Give me stuns that stick, last longer then 4 seconds and work on more then just greenies. I want the ability to stop a mob for a short period of time if a healer/chanter accidentally draws aggro.

[Asterra]

Well, there's your vision, and there's Moorgard's vision.  Moorgard has (probably much to his eternal regret) publicly stated that the purpose of Wizards and Warlocks is to be equal but opposite counterparts, holding the uncontested throne of DPS.  AEs are an integral, frequently defining component of raid encounters, and are certainly currently the only vehicle by which any Mage class can hope to compete with the majority of the Warrior classes for DPS.  SOE has thus far chosen to make Wizards extraordinarily weak in this regard - weaker even than Illusionists and some Priest classes, and certainly the FURTHEST thing from an "equal counterpart" to the kings of AE, Warlocks.  Well, that trend is completely incompatible with Moorgard's aforementioned publicly stated intention of the class.  As for direct damage.. ignoring for the moment the fact that most melee-oriented DPS can trounce Wizard output even assuming zero resists (a fact afforded by increasingly jaw-dropping weapons), the so-called Wizard superiority over Warlocks in this regard is in fact rubbish.  Take a Wizard and a Warlock and have them simultaneously solo the Lavaborn instance.  He's a single encounter.  See who exits first.  I don't have to perform this experiment because I watch it transpire just about every day.

[TooFarGo]

I've not played EQ1, nor have I raided much in EQ2 (yet...).  Do you think the resist disparities were entirely intentional? Were wizards being shuffled into "mana boy" roles on purpose? On the other hand, I agree that *some* mobs should be completely resistant to ice/fire.  Bring a warlock to those, and Wizzies will be mana generators.  Some should just be resistant to one or the other.  Some should be resistant to neither.  Some should be resistant to poison.  It gives us diversity, and makes things more interesting.  But yeah, from what I've read the resists are wack. = <div></div>

[OneBadAli]

<P>The ONLY reason that the wizard and the warlock were able to solo that epic mob is because their root (which ISNT suppose to affect epic targets) but DOES on this mob. Otherwise they wouldnt have a chance.</P> <P>This epic mobbed is bugged, nothing wrong otherwise. Just fix this epic mob where it is resistant to the root like its suppose to be....</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah and reduce power consumption per spell for wizzies, and balance resistances/immunes on epic mobs. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Asterra]

Well, actually, what the AE roots aren't supposed to affect (and they don't) is triple-up mobs, which Iceberg and his pal aren't.  Now, what they do happen to be is somewhat ice resistant.  This makes the fight, as with most other encounters, considerably more difficult for a Wizard than it would be for a Warlock.  In fact, I will flat out state that it is NOT possible to beat with a single Wizard's crowd control spells, unless one takes advantage of pathing bugs.  (I'll wait for a Fraps video to prove me wrong.)  So if anything needs to be fixed, it's the pathing.

[EvilAmi]

<P>Iceberg and Jack are soloable by both wizzies and warlocks because each gets a permanent root, frozen manacles, and a third root all on seperate timers. As long as wizzy/warlock has decent power regen they can finish the encounter without too much trouble. It has nothing to do with pathing because a wizzy/warlock can keep them rooted at all times. Although a warlock can finish it quicker, a wizard of the same skill can finish this encounter but it will take him a bit longer.</P> <P>Personally.. I don't find anything wrong with wizards/warlocks being able to solo like this. It takes a lot of skill/practice to be able to solo hard things like these and I think thats a step in the right direction. If I remember correctly, EQ2 was supposed to be about skill over numbers.. that's why they capped raids at 24 and don't allow a raid of 24 people to get loot from a mob that was supposed to be killed by 12 people.</P> <P>Anyways, back to the age old topic of wizzies vs. warlocks --- I think both of their nuking powers are about equal. The only problem I see is with resistances.. Too many targets are immune to cold/heat. The really big problem happens when something is immune to cold and resistant to heat. All of our fire debuffs are cold based which means we can't debuff. We are stuck as power batteries basically.. although I know power transfer has saved a few raids from wiping (power transfer to the main tank when he runs out of power is neccesary or else he loses aggro and raid wipes), I did not pick a wizard for anything except big nukes and rock'n'roll.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>