INT to make a difference to damage in upcoming changes

[Sorano]

<DIV> <DIV>This is from a post by Moorgard. Some interesting stuff in there regarding spells no longer scaling and adept3s being more useful. The other important thing is that INT will finally matter in regards to damage. Yay!</DIV> <P><FONT color=#33cc66>This is already in progress as part of the upcoming balance changes. Every spell is getting looked at.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66>The reason our current system has some of these problems is that our spells grow two ways: by level and by quality. Your App3 at level X is not the same as your App3 at level Y, and because of that there can often be crossover points where one spell of a given quality is the same as a higher quality--or potentially less desireable in some way. We simply don't have enough headroom without making spells that do crazy damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66>That's why we're doing away with the concept of spells growing by level. This will allow us to make sure spells and arts have clearer benefits as you increase their quality tier.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66>We're also going to be organizing the knowledge book into spell lines so that upgrade paths are a lot easier to understand. There will likely be new spells added to flesh out some of the lines a bit more, so current spells that grow infinitely will likely be replaced by spell lines that accomplish much the same thing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66>Not all the spell changes we're making are about balance. Another good reason for them is to make our spell system more consistent and easier for players to understand.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc99>As for the next phase of the changes that will be showing up on Test server soon: Intelligence will provide a much more noticeable bonus to spell damage, and Wisdom will be important for mitigating the damage bonus of your opponent. So yes, you will have a good reason to buff your INT and WIS, just like many of you have been asking for.</FONT> <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy </P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Sorano on <span class=date_text>05-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:06 PM</span>

[Pibly]

<DIV>Where is this original post?  People have been talking about it ingame.  After I logged out I came here to read it but cant find it.  Looked all over the place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say I'm exceedingly worried about the changes proposed.  It means rich players (aka uber guild players) will be able to buy the adept/master spells.  But poor players and solo players who cant afford them will get NO damage increase with level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So a lv 50 will nuke like a lv 30, if they dont have a high guild to buy or make them a master spell.  Yes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any sense leveling at all?  Wouldnt it be best to stay level 30 and just horde money to buy the highest quality spells?  Will the zones be properly set for a ton of lv 30s with master spells?  And/or a ton of level 50s with App2 spells?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Casters are pretty totally messed up in EQ2 as it is.  I'm dreading this change.  I suspect SOE has NOT thought it through, nor do I trust their testing on the test server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The "Perfect Group" discussin in the general forum pretty much concluded that a healer, a main tank and a bunch of bruisers was the perfect group.  I dont see how this change is going to make dps casters any more welcome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pibly</DIV>

[Sorano]

<DIV>You can find the original post here</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=47572#M47572" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=47572#M47572</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm I don't think it's quite supposed to work that way. Basically at the moment because of us gradually growing into spells, we are not seeing much differences between the upgraded spell and the old one it replaced when we initially get it. So i guess what they are going to do is give us the spell at white con/max damage instead of orange con. That way we will see more of a difference from say the adept 3 of the old spell vs the app1 of the new.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I only hope they are not going to use this as a quick fix to the scaling issue that is still present in T5 spells.</DIV>

[Nluold]

<DIV>There has also been talk ( not see a post yet) that int will give a larger amount of power to.</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<P>HALLAUHEA!</P> <P>First, it's great they are doing this. I don't even care that his comments on INT finally come out in an unrealated thread, as opposed to the threads asking what INT does. We all knew the system had flaws, at least they know it to.</P> <P>So spells aren't going to grow with levels? I guess this means the Apprentice, Adept and Master will stay, but rather then get more powerful, they will just have a flat damage range? Meaning, when you get Ball of Flame, it will do xxx-xxx no matter what level you are. And the increase in damage will be based on you INT.</P> <P>Now I wonder how this will effect things? Currently, my adept 3 (blue) does max 948 damage. Surely they aren't going to have it doe that much when you first get it? So I suspect many spells will go down in max damage, but will beable to get a higher over all damage with INT.</P>

[Sorano]

<P>From Test server update notes:</P> <P><FONT color=#33cc33>- </FONT><FONT color=#33cc99>There is now a spell damage bonus based on the difference between the caster's intelligence and the target's wisdom. This works similarly to the bonus applied to melee damage based on the attacker's strength verus the target's agility.<BR></FONT></P> <DIV>Interesting so the dmg bonus will be the difference between our int vs a mob's wisdom, which means the more int you have the better. So does this mean there is finally a reason for us to go over 200 int, or will there also be a cap to the dmg bonus? I just hope they provide us with some decent information about exactly how this is going to work.</DIV>

[Stavenh]

I don't think there will be a cap. However, don't be surprised if mobs end up being wiser then they used to be. While I understand how they are doing this, here is my question, how is mob stats determined?Players increase thier stats via items and buffs. How do mobs increase theirs? Clearly a blob isn't wearing sleeves, gloves, rings, and pantaloons and buffing its self. So is a level 45 mob going to have a wisdom of say, 200+? Why is a blob so wis? Because I'm sure that mobs will have higher stats to "balance" the encounter.Also, our pryre and inferno spells might just be useful now, as they lower mobs int.Notice that mob spell damage is going to go up, which is rediculous, considering that some mobd already have spells that do double or triple damage to "balance" the encounter. They then need to adjust the mobs that have this kind of bonus so that thier spells aren't doing outragous damage. I've already been one shot killed from a level 45 warlock mob that did 2.6k damage with one spell.They also need to introduce items across all ive tiers that have decent int bonuses. or adjust current armor. TI seems currently, the common armor for mages have the best stats are around T3.

[T'lk]

<P>My concern is that it doesn't seem equitable. Certainly each profession should have strengths and weaknesses. I love that intelligence will increase our dmg, I don't like that the check is compared to wisdom.</P> <P>To me, as a wizard, intelligence should determine our resistance to elemental dmg, as well as our effectiveness with it. It would be easy for the straight roles to do. Templars would use wisdom, like we use intelligence (in thier case to resist devine dmg). But having 4 stats do the same for everyone is weak in my opinion. </P> <P>Certainly a more agile scout will be able to hit more vital areas, and thus do more dmg. As well as be aware how to avoid an attack that they perform.</P> <P>If a little thought is put forth, then this change could be really good for the game. I also have reservations about NPCs and MOBs. They can be made terribly difficult to fight. </P>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<P>I too, personally like the current setup where spells scaled as you leveled because it felt I was gaining much more per level than just an extra spell and a trait every 2 levels. As almost all my spells would have improved a bit and I could see what they did now. Yes, some spells or abilities did not go up at all like an inc parry or def, or a stifle or mez spell, but that was totally fine or if it was not intended, then it should have been fixed. Is this Sony's easy way out of fixing those spells which were supposed to scale and did not? I really believe that is the case.</P> <P>I saw upgrades in almost all spells going from app1 to 4 to dept1 to 3 etc other than those like stifles and certain skills which cannot increase all that much etc. Many players exaggerate their own spells upgrades not increasing enough. There were some which were supposed to upgrade more than they did but they should just have been fixed instead of changing the whole system. But the bottom line is most of your spells would have scaled each time you leveled if not all. I have played a lot of characters and that's why I know.</P> <P>There is also another factor in that, each class has certain class defining spells or most powerful spells which they receive about every 10 levels. If this system was implemented, almost all classes will see hills and vallies in their character development and progress because of the period right before the next high potential upgrade, due to spells not scaling. During these certain periods, you will feel as though you character will not be improving or progressing very much at all, which deteres people from enjoying their class.</P> <P> I felt my character was gaining in power with each level, whereas in the new system, your intel/wis will not be changing all that often and hence I would feel my character not really developing as he or she leveled. Including intel into the damage rating, I can understand, but making it so that spells don't increase in effectiveness or damage per level is a real step backwards (along with making too many mobs solo instead of adding more solo content whilst changing a few group content into solo).</P><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 PM</span>

[FrostP]

I don't completely understand how Wisdom will assist us wizards with mitigation....does that mean we have a greater chance to resist spell damage aimed at us or a greater chance to get past the target mob resisting OUR spell damage aimed at them? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I shall reserve judgement on how this actually works in practice however as a half elf I am a little concerned my spell damage will fall below what it is now because my intelligence isnt that great compared to an erudite or high elf. At level 50 self buffed I can get about 210 INT and 105 WIS I see many high elves with 270+ INT Unless they plan on capping the damage rate at 200 INT all my adept 3 spells I have saved for are still going to be weaker then a high elf by quite a margin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the things I liked about the old system is an ogre mage or a human or a half elf or a ratonga might have had slightly less power to cast with then a high elf or an erudite but they all did similar damage because intelligence wasn't the big factor in damage output. The reason I liked that is because it allowed players to diversify what race they choseand still equaly be effective in spell for spell damage. Now I'm just afraid the "best" damage will only be possible by erudites and high elves who typicaly have far superior intelligence to the other races......and as a result eventually those two classes will dominate the wizard/warlock playerbase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its just a fear not a criticism, hopefully it will not turn out like this.</DIV>

[T'lk]

<DIV>I don't understand the wisdom much either. I think wisdom increases your ability to resist a spell. But to me, it makes more sense for one proficient in a skill to be more capable of resisting it (that is wisdom goes with divine/mental dmg, so wis would protect against that, where as intelligence goes with elemental/disease/poison).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do like having a modifier for my dmg though. But I could see them adding talismans or runes to give casters the same benefit melee has by upgrading thier arts and weapons.</DIV>

[Silo]

<P>Frostpaw,</P> <P>I can see where you're coming from but I don't think the different races starting attributes would play as big of a role as you are thinking.  Consider Erudites vs. Ogres starting Intelligence.  30 vs. 15.  I see a slight 15 pt. difference in starting stats.  It may seem like a substantial difference when just starting your character but eventually as you get higher and get more +stats from items there won't be much of a discrepency.  A little less starting intelligence is what you get for choosing to be that particular race.  It wouldn't make you far less superior if you were an ogre, you'd just do a little less damage because you aren't as intelligent as an Erudite is.  You get other stats that start higher though like Stamina for more HPs.  Your stats are pretty much item dependent in this game, so that's where the big differences will be determined.</P> <DIV>If I overlooked some other way of getting +int for being an Erudite that you can't get being an Ogre please fill me in.  Maybe there's more +int character traits you can choose from being Erudite that you don't get the option of choosing being an Ogre?</DIV>

[Tabemo]

Erudites get a racial trait that gives 3 int and a racial trait that gives 2 int + 2% more power.  Ogres only get a +3int trait.  There will probably be a cap on int anyways like how they capped agi.  Anyways, I don't really see a big advantage with having more str or agi, and although stamina is important, in the high end raids, mages usually don't get hit anyways unless it's spell damage, but we should be focusing on our resists anyways.   So it would still be more advantageous to choose the higher int/wis race in the first place.   I've grouped with a few ogre/barb/troll mages and they only seem, at most, a little above average in terms of their performance when compared to some of the higher int race mages I've also grouped with. <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 AM</span>

[Elor]

<div></div>...You're really irritating, Lady Uaelreafthingy. Nothing is "out of hand"  Nothing had been decided.  You have no idea how any of this will work or how strongly.  Nothing is "drastic". <div></div><p>Message Edited by Eloran on <span class=date_text>05-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:39 PM</span>

[Tabemo]

I think it's funny <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[blynchehaun]

< My int is 275 and my wisdom is like 70 or 80. <div> </div> I rather decrease my intelligence now to respec for some wisdom. > You don't make any sense. 95% of that 275 Int is coming from Items. In what way would Respecing fix that? <div></div>

[Elor]

<span><blockquote><hr>blynchehaun wrote:< My int is 275 and my wisdom is like 70 or 80. <div> </div> I rather decrease my intelligence now to respec for some wisdom. > You don't make any sense. 95% of that 275 Int is coming from Items. In what way would Respecing fix that? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe she wants to respec her items!  Don't oppress her creativity, fascist!</span><div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <SPAN class=date_text>05-22-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:15 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 AM</span>

[FrostP]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lady Uaelrea wrote:<BR> <DIV>..............Is that so hard to understand. You are really a group of uncivilized people. It appears that I only get this type of response from these boards and not from any other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc3300>Instead of posting something nasty why don't you post your thoughts constructively</FONT>. <FONT color=#cc3300>Learn some manners and be respectful</FONT>. <FONT color=#ccff00>Or please be quiet and go back to drinking your beer, scratching your hairy dirty belly full of lint in your lovely 1956 trailer home.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God Bless..(you people need it).</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <SPAN class=date_text>05-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:25 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What a fine example of not being a "nasty wizard" you are. How respectfull of others and constructive your post is. Again I think you should practice what you are preaching to others first.<BR>

[Lady Uaelr]

<P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Thank You and Have a Great Day.</P> <p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:16 AM</span>

[FrostP]

<DIV>Claiming justification to throw insults at others is not the way to go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I saw what that other person said and thats enough for me to form an opinion on what they are like. Sinking to the level of throwing insults back and especially to "everyone" as you seem to be putting it just makes you look as bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You talk about manners and respect and stopping all the nastiness on these forums unyet you are just adding to the fuel in every argument you are involved in. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you can't rise above it don't seek to take the higher moral ground because its clear you don't have it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Better to let people dig their own grave than share one together.</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:16 AM</span>

[FrostP]

<DIV>I think I'll leave you to it, no sense bashing my head against a wall. Better things to do now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I said in the other thread you created any more personal messages you send me will be collected and forwarded to the moderators.</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<P>Thank You FrostPaw.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:18 AM</span>

[Elor]

She told me to do certain things to my mother via PM.  ...I merely pointed out that her post was idiotic. <div></div>

[Optifre]

<P>So umm...back to the issue at hand?</P> <P>I want it balanced, maybe a little bit of scaling damage based on skill with disruption and adding a bit of a modifier based off of your int. Balance. That's all I really want. Though I do like the Idea of Int helping my damage, just seems natural.</P>

[brow27]

I'm excited that spell damage will now have a bonus based on Int.  This is how it was supposed to be from the start (according to the manual).  I do have some minor concern over the non-scaling thing he mentioned, but I'll just wait and see what happens before I proceed to freak out. <div></div>

[Elor]

here's the thing about more powerful Erudites and High Elves...that's how it SHOULD be. An Ogre Mage should not have the same capabilities as an Erudite Mage.  That's why they're different species.  They have different talents. <div></div>

[Tabemo]

<span><blockquote><hr>Eloran wrote:here's the thing about more powerful Erudites and High Elves...that's how it SHOULD be. An Ogre Mage should not have the same capabilities as an Erudite Mage.  That's why they're different species.  They have different talents. <div></div><hr></blockquote></span>Totally.  Especially if you're like roleplaying what kind of Ogre would become a mage?  And if they were a mage how good would they be forgetting how to cast spells? <div></div>