An idea for mage's and priest, and ranged weapon slots!

[LordSta]

<div></div>As most mages and priest, I am frustrated with not having anything avaible for my ranged weapon slot. I am not nessearly upset that we don't get a ranged weapons, because we get our spells. I am upset that the fighters and scouts get extra stats added to them from a slot that only they get to use. That upon itself is totally unfair, plain and simple. I have thought of a way that could work out. I am not expecting a use for bows or knives; instead, we can use scrolls. For the bow slot, you can have a scroll case, that has stat bumps like a bow would, and instead of physical damage, depending on the class, either priest or mage, it could do an effect that is similar to that of the class the scroll case is ment for. Sages can make the Scroll cases, plus they can be found, just like a bow. The ammunition could be scroll pages, which again could be made by sages, or found/purchased. If people would think this is a good idea, or a bad idea please feel free to explain why. Also feel free to add to this idea, just keep it fair and balanced. Just don't flame this with unconstructive critism. Thanks Magus {HoK} <div></div>

[Nacoa]

What exactly would using a scroll do? <div></div>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:What exactly would using a scroll do? <div></div><hr></blockquote>What if the scrolls effected cast spells?

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Stavenham wrote:<blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:What exactly would using a scroll do? <div></div><hr></blockquote>What if the scrolls effected cast spells?<hr></blockquote> Aren't we the ones supposed to cast spells?  I understand his goal, in that non-caster classes get an extra slot for +stat equipment.  But I don't know that we actually need any "ammo" for the ammo container we'd wear.</span><div></div>

[-AtPlay-]

<span><blockquote><hr>LordStash wrote:<div></div>As most mages and priest, I am frustrated with not having anything avaible for my ranged weapon slot. I am not nessearly upset that we don't get a ranged weapons, because we get our spells. I am upset that the fighters and scouts get extra stats added to them from a slot that only they get to use. That upon itself is totally unfair, plain and simple. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not all fighters can use the ranged slot, Crusaders (Paly/SK) cant use ranged items either.</span><div></div>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Stavenham wrote:<blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:What exactly would using a scroll do? <div></div><hr></blockquote>What if the scrolls effected cast spells?<hr></blockquote> Aren't we the ones supposed to cast spells?  I understand his goal, in that non-caster classes get an extra slot for +stat equipment.  But I don't know that we actually need any "ammo" for the ammo container we'd wear.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>It wouldn't be practicle, but the idea would be that when we cast a spell, an scroll, (ammo) is used and our spell is increased in some manner. Debuffs last longer, spells do more damage. If you don't want the scroll used, you take it out of the slot. Yeah, it's some work, but what isn't?This would give sages something to make too, that some people would want.

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Stavenham wrote:<blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Stavenham wrote:<blockquote><hr>Nacoa wrote:What exactly would using a scroll do? <div></div><hr></blockquote>What if the scrolls effected cast spells?<hr></blockquote> Aren't we the ones supposed to cast spells?  I understand his goal, in that non-caster classes get an extra slot for +stat equipment.  But I don't know that we actually need any "ammo" for the ammo container we'd wear.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>It wouldn't be practicle, but the idea would be that when we cast a spell, an scroll, (ammo) is used and our spell is increased in some manner. Debuffs last longer, spells do more damage. If you don't want the scroll used, you take it out of the slot. Yeah, it's some work, but what isn't?This would give sages something to make too, that some people would want.<hr></blockquote>Yeah, I think pay-per-cast would be impractical too.  But if all you want is the stat-bump from the quiver that some fighters and some scouts can equip, nothing says it has to acutally contain ammo.  Of course, now you've got the awkward naming problem of it being called the "ranged weapon" slot but be equipped with a non-weapon. Frankly, I'd rather they just upped the +int for the rest of our gear to make up for it. </span><div></div>

[Tyrant Invict]

<DIV>How about, instead of trying to obfuscate the real purpose with some elaborate new set of items, you just create items, that only mages would want to use, that just fit in the range slot.  No sense trying to create a silly justification behind it when all you really want is a stat item in a currently empty slot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe an item that increases the range on my spells?  For the tank buffs I basically need to stand on top of the target.  And it would be nice if Ice Flame's range was as far as my other nukes.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So how about an "imbued diamondite range charm" or an "imbued bloodstone damage crystal" or something like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tyrant Invictus on <span class=date_text>05-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 PM</span>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Tyrant Invictus wrote: <DIV>How about, instead of trying to obfuscate the real purpose with some elaborate new set of items, you just create items, that only mages would want to use, that just fit in the range slot.  No sense trying to create a silly justification behind it when all you really want is a stat item in a currently empty slot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe an item that increases the range on my spells?  For the tank buffs I basically need to stand on top of the target.  And it would be nice if Ice Flame's range was as far as my other nukes.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So how about an "imbued diamondite range charm" or an "imbued bloodstone damage crystal" or something like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tyrant Invictus on <span class=date_text>05-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Then just allow mages to use some ranged weapon if all you want is stats.Personally, this has't bothered me.

[Articulas]

an extra spell scroll for wizards would be a great idea. technically do not scouts get poisoins? why not wizards get scrolls? on a technical note i feel so snubbed this scout that is in my guild can do damage 1000+ and i don't think he is even 35 yet and i can't even push 700 yet at 37. course my spells aren't upgraded but then again i don't think his are either :smileymad:

[LordSta]

I like alot of these ideas, items to enhance certain abilities would be nice, i think to be fair, there should be a limit, based on the ammo slot, that way it just isn't constaint. I am enjoying the different aspects each person is giving, the idea with scrolls, is that it would allow us to cast without power being the only sorce in the game, the scroll case only had one type of spell, again it would depend on your class that the ability would be. Again keep this thread going with the great ideas. Let the devs hear us!!! Magus <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>I think the idea is a good one. Maybe instead of a spell scroll it would be a spell scroll case or a little pouch that adds stats and we can place potions in it as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So ammo would be potions and runes or whatever but the pouch would always remain.....it would have stamina or whatever maybe int....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anything would be great.</DIV>

[Tyrant Invict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR>Then just allow mages to use some ranged weapon if all you want is stats.<BR><BR>Personally, this has't bothered me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Doesn't bother me either.</P> <P>The original complaint was that some classes got stats off items they could place in their ranged slot, while wizards couldn't fill that slot with anything.</P> <P>Some have proferred that the solution to that problem is inventing some elaborate kind of justification for putting an item in our ranged slot.  I seriously doubt SOE is going to go to all the trouble of doing that.</P> <P>So, if this really bothers someone, who cares if it's actually a ranged weapon?  I would suggest they ask for a simple solution, that being for SOE to just make stat items that are range slot equipable for wizards (and any other class that get's gypped out of filling their range slots), and while doing so give the poor jewelers a little more business.</P> <P>I think that's a reasonable request.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Besides, I wouldn't want to equip a ranged weapon, I don't want to use a ranged weapon, and I therefore don't understand why you suggest that which you did.</P> <p>Message Edited by Tyrant Invictus on <span class=date_text>05-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:41 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Tyrant Invictus wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR>Then just allow mages to use some ranged weapon if all you want is stats.<BR><BR>Personally, this has't bothered me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Doesn't bother me either.</P> <P>The original complaint was that some classes got stats off items they could place in their ranged slot, while wizards couldn't fill that slot with anything.</P> <P>Some have proferred that the solution to that problem is inventing some elaborate kind of justification for putting an item in our ranged slot.  I seriously doubt SOE is going to go to all the trouble of doing that.</P> <P>So, if this really bothers someone, who cares if it's actually a ranged weapon?  I would suggest they ask for a simple solution, that being for SOE to just make stat items that are range slot equipable for wizards (and any other class that get's gypped out of filling their range slots), and while doing so give the poor jewelers a little more business.</P> <P>I think that's a reasonable request.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Besides, I wouldn't want to equip a ranged weapon, I don't want to use a ranged weapon, and I therefore don't understand why you suggest that which you did.</P> <p>Message Edited by Tyrant Invictus on <span class=date_text>05-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:41 AM</span><hr></blockquote>If creating items like scroll pouch and then something for the ammo is to much work or to eleborate, then why not just make ranged weapons mages can use. aren't there throwing knives in game? And holders for those items? Couldn't these be adopted to mages, since we know how to use daggers?

[Articulas]

if we are going to go as far as giving us ranged weapons why not just make it tiny fireballs or ice crystals? make it a bit more believeable for a wizzy. say we need seeds or runes to make it happen.<BR>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:if we are going to go as far as giving us ranged weapons why not just make it tiny fireballs or ice crystals? make it a bit more believeable for a wizzy. say we need seeds or runes to make it happen.<BR> <hr></blockquote>Good idea! In fact, there is a solution in hand. Make the new imbued pristine wands go into the range slot! Then click, there is your effect. This then leaves the primary open for a different item.

[Tyrant Invict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR><BR>If creating items like scroll pouch and then something for the ammo is to much work or to eleborate, then why not just make ranged weapons mages can use. aren't there throwing knives in game? And holders for those items? Couldn't these be adopted to mages, since we know how to use daggers?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I could see them making throwing knife satchels (or pouchs, or bags, or whatever it is for knives), equipable to mages, and whatever else they think is appropriate for whatever other classes that can't load the ranged weapon slot at the moment.</P> <P>I would never throw knives, but I would certainly wear the satchel for the stats.</P> <P>That would certainly be an easier fix than inventing a new line of items.</P> <P>But neither is it very exciting, eh? :smileywink:</P> <P>No, I just think my idea is a good compromise between easy/boring and complicated/exciting, is something I believe they might actually do, and as I previously mentioned is something that gives the jewelers something else to make (the sages are doing fine, and the tailors have hex dolls, bags, and two types of armor).</P>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Well what about using the slots for questable runes that are class specific - maybe they can proc health or mitigation or power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know about daggers though- not sure would enjoy buying them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe use the slots for idols or embelms as well as runes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The empty slots are really a waste and every class should have the ability to use them.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <SPAN class=date_text>05-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:25 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on <span class=date_text>05-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:26 PM</span>

[Chausie]

<P>I've read some good ideas here. I especially like the rune idea for the ranged slot. I was going to suggest re-naming the ranged slot to "tertiary" and fighters/scouts could use their bows in that slot while mages/priests can use symbols (or runes). This would allow all classes to use that slot, get the extra stats they're looking for, and keep the restrictions in place (such as not equipping two shields). The symbols (or runes) could be player crafted, imbued, quested or dropped and be castable like the current imbued weapons and jewelry currently are.</P>

[Nimington]

<P>I wanted a crossbow :smileyhappy:  It's slow, and for feable wizard arms wouldnt be that strong, and frankly a crossbow doesnt take much training (which is why it got popular and stuff).</P> <P>--</P> <P>Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant</P>

[LordSta]

I must say when we, the collective whole, get thinking. We come up with some great ideas. I am not obviously sure which of these are the best methods, perhaps all of the with each expansion that comes out. I wasn't limiting the slot for ranged weapons as someone had said earlier on the forum, I was just describing it as a ranged weapon slot, becuause i don't have another name. I realize the devs have a full plate. If we can give great ideas like I have been reading, and the devs have read this forum. Perhaps they will like a solution given by us. It would certainly get rid of some of the brainstorming they do for the game. Anywho trailing back to the point, keep up the great ideas. Let this be a thread that the devs have to take seriously. Let the ideas flow! Magus <div></div>

[Stavenh]

Well, if we want equality, we need and item in the range slot, and then ammo. I don't know if current ammo has stats on it? I will ask some bow using friends, or sneak a peek.So we would need an item that goes in the ranged weapons slot that uses ammo. So a rune or scroll case would work, with the ammo being runes or scrolls. Since they are attacks for other classes, would they have to be attacks, or short term buffs? I perfer short term buffs. This way, you click the scroll case (hotkey it) and cast the buff (should never be more then one second to cast) and wah la. Lets say it's a 10 second buff that increases spell damage 10-15%, the next spell you cast, more damage, buff gone. This way you can control it.Course, they could always say, you have HOs if you want extra damage.

[yumyum]

<P>i believe the easiest thing for soe to do(if its easy there mor likely do get it done sooner) and that would give us something for our long ranged slot is to just let us use some minor thrown weapons that dont take much training like a thrown dagger or a dart or surieken, if not using it for damage just let it sit there and reap the stat bonuses.</P> <P>Ps it would'nt hurt if u ran out of power b/c u would'nt have to approach a target...there for he will have to come to u giving u time ti regen.</P>

[TooFarGo]

As a wizzy, I want to use my ranged slot for a pipe, and the ammo slot for tabaccy. =) <div></div>

[AcidReig]

While I would love to have some stats from the two slots.  I would also be pleased if they switched it so we could have a total of 4 activatable slots.  I know I wouldn't have any trouble filling them.

[Kablammo1961]

<P>HOW BOUT THIS....</P> <P> - a caster satchel and player crafted items (runes whatever) that eliminate fizzles! Every fizzle, it consumes an item but successfully casts the spell. </P> <P>Or ...that recasts immediately on resists...hehe could get expensive quick on high level monsters LOL</P> <P> </P> <P>It wont unbalance anything, gives ALL casters something useful and a slight improvement, increases the economy too. (like food)</P> <P> </P> <P>Kablammo, 47 Gnomerz weezard, punt-compatible 3.0</P> <p>Message Edited by Kablammo1961 on <span class=date_text>05-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:03 PM</span>

[Amistead]

<P>Deleted.  double post.</P><p>Message Edited by Amistead on <span class=date_text>05-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:46 AM</span>

[Amistead]

<DIV> <P>As a side note, warlocks have certain debuffs which generate nil crystals, assuming that the mob dies during the time while the debuff is still active.  These nil crystals are consumed in the casting of other warlock spells.  </P> <P>  Elaborating upon the already present game mechanics, each caster archetype should get a class specific "reagent pouch."  Certainly, it would be balanced with other classes for these pouches to have stat bonuses as the bows do.  Realizing that not all caster classes use the nil crystal mechanic, a generic "elemental crystal/noxious crystal/etc." mechanic could be implemented.  Simply activate the crystal vial that is held within your pouch, and every time you cast a spell of the appropriate elemental type, it procs an effect.  Similar to alchemists making poisons, it would be most reasonable for sages to make the arcane crystals (as woodworkers or carpenters-not sure which- make the arrows), and alchemists to make the crystal effects.</P> <P>Example:  </P> <P>"Vial of Elemental Crystals:</P> <P>     -charges: 100</P> <P>     -effect: upon casting a spell of the Fire/Ice subtype, an elemental crystal is consumed.  Inflict 75 Fire damage on target."</P> <P> </P> <P>OR</P> <P>"Vial of Noxious Crystals:</P> <P>    -charges: 100</P> <P>    -effect: upon casting a spell of the Poison/Disease subtype, a noxious crystal is consumed.  Inflict 45 Poison damage on target each 1.5 seconds."</P> <P> </P> <P>OR</P> <P>"Vial of Illusory Crystals:</P> <P>    -charges:  100</P> <P>    -effect:  upon termination of a spell of the mental subtype, an illusory crystal is consumed.  Stun target for 1.5 seconds."</P> <P> </P> <P>  It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. That is all the poisons do.</P> <P>The code would be fairly simple to implement.  </P> <P>a.  Add in the code for the tradeskillers. (similar to arrow and poison code)</P> <P>b.  Add in the code for the new item names/ stat bonuses.</P> <P>c.  Copy and paste procedural code for arrow poison usage during combat, but use different pointers to crystals instead.  </P> <P>voila.</P> <P> </P> <P>Just my two cents.</P></DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AcidReigns wrote:<BR>While I would love to have some stats from the two slots.  I would also be pleased if they switched it so we could have a total of 4 activatable slots.  I know I wouldn't have any trouble filling them. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is a super idea. It is simple and does not require any additional thought or design. Just making the slots activatable would be the best. We could just fill them up with a potion, another doll, or a totem and anything else.</P> <P>I recommend this be submitted to the DEVS for consideration. All classes would benefit from this as well.</P> <P> </P>

[HairyDustBall]

Please dont do this.  Im a mage I don't want to use a bow or throw knives or wear heavy plate male for that matter.  Classes are different some classes can use armor that others cant some can use a ranged weapon.  I dont want wizards and scouts and healers and warrior to be the same.  If it annoys you seeing an empty unfillable hole a better solution would be to remove the slot on toons that can't use them.  If you are concerned about another +10 int that you might beable to get then I would say that +10 int could easily be made up spreadout over mage only jewelry or something.  Lets make the classes different and keep them that way!