Raid mob resistances - The Breakdown

[slard2]

<P>Please check this thread at the following link in the Abilities forum:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=46389" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=46389</A></P> <P>I don't want to maintain 2 copies.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR>Rastaoun<BR>50 wiz, 42 Sage<BR>Ascendance - www.ascendanceguild.com<BR>Turmoil<BR>32 Warden, 27 Carpenter<BR>Neriak Server</P> <P>Message Edited by slard271 on <SPAN class=date_text>04-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:49 AM</SPAN> <P>Message Edited by slard271 on <SPAN class=date_text>04-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:51 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by slard271 on <SPAN class=date_text>05-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:18 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by slard271 on <span class=date_text>05-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 PM</span>

[Beleagur]

<P> </P> <P>/salute</P> <P> </P> <P>Great job.  Awesome work.  Concise and easy to read presentation.  Very nice to see a post that is full of facts rather than whines.</P> <P>I certain hope the devs get a good look at this.</P> <P>Thanks.</P> <P> </P>

[Jast]

Very nice post. Well done.

[TheC]

Thanks for putting that together.  I'm really clueless on why they would do this, it's not like it was an accident, the only class that deals elemental dmg is wizards, so they did this with full knowledge that it would screw us.  That's why I don't see a fix coming.

[Sorano]

Excellent post. This should go in the Spells, Abilities and Combat Arts section. That forum seems to get more visiblity. This is an issue that really needs to be looked into. From talking to guildies, SOE have a long history of treating wizards like redheaded stepchildren. I heard horror stories about EQ1 and the Planes expansion where all the mobs were made immune to wizzys and the only thing they could do there was taxi people. Noe it seems we are destined to be mana feeders in the endgame. I really wish i had known this before choosing the class.

[Raxe Sla]

<DIV>The overlord is also resistant to poison and disease, and I know you are missing another mob that is also.</DIV>

[Max122]

<DIV>I am a Warlock havnt taked on many raid mobs yet but the ones that I have I can land spells almost all the time and for most of its damage if fully debuffed.  With just my debuffs alone and the procs I can put on every melee in my group if they proc hits I am looking at close to 3k of poison/disease debuff.  Then if you add a necro or anyone else who can debuff poison as well that could easily push the debuff upwards of 5k. So what I am wondering is how much can you guys debuff fire/cold and who else can help with that. Wandering if the the debuffing is about the same or if you cant even land them.  Just want to know exactly what you guys and do in that regard and maybe if you cant debuff as much that could be part of the reason.</DIV>

[Nluold]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Max122 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am a Warlock havnt taked on many raid mobs yet but the ones that I have I can land spells almost all the time and for most of its damage if fully debuffed.  With just my debuffs alone and the procs I can put on every melee in my group if they proc hits I am looking at close to 3k of poison/disease debuff.  Then if you add a necro or anyone else who can debuff poison as well that could easily push the debuff upwards of 5k. So what I am wondering is how much can you guys debuff fire/cold and who else can help with that. Wandering if the the debuffing is about the same or if you cant even land them.  Just want to know exactly what you guys and do in that regard and maybe if you cant debuff as much that could be part of the reason.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well see conj's debuff for wizard as necros do for warlock. Where the problem comes in is landing these debuff since most mobs resist cold and fire so much landing the debuff to even hit them with nukes is slim to none also.

[Fyr]

I think there is a confusion between Immune, Resist and Damage Mitigation, I'll try to clarify this : - Immunity is just a flag, if a mob is immune to some kind of magic and you will get no damage at all with any spell of this type. However the spell does land ("XXX is struck down by an ice comet" message) and you can validate OH this way. - Resist is only linked to your level and the level of the mob your are fighting,  well in fact this is linked to your magic skill which is linked to your level but it can be buffed with group buffs, items and OH. There is no 100% success when casting a spell, that is why you can get resist with a level 50 wiz on a level 1 mob. - Damage Mitigation is what you see in your character profile. It will decrease the amount of damage your target gets if you don't get resisted. It can be decreased with debuffs. When you see "XXX is extremely resistant to cold based spells", it means the mob has very high mitigation vs. cold, but it can be lowered with debuffs. Now I have no problem with mobs having high resists (ie. Damage Mitigation), but having 50% of the raids mobs (and 100% of the 50 raid instances) completly immune to cold based attack is just ridiculous !<div></div>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>I just want to add something you may or may not know.  </P> <P>Warlocks have 3disease based damage spells from 20-50.  2 are disease dots - poison/disease debuffs in one that are on the same timer and do not stack.  The other disease based spell is an AoE.  Might as well not even talk about disease as being a part of our arsenal. </P> <P>So if any mob is poison resistant/immune -- we can't do anything to the mob.  And if a mob is disease resistant then we have to resort to our only other poison based debuff that debuffs poison by about half of what the other does (and it will more than likely resist this debuff) = significant increase in resists, decrease in amount of damage landing.  We get zero AoE debuffs, yet half of our main sources of dmg are AoE spells.  Because of this we were slammed in the last update.</P> <P>I'm not sure if that answers your question, but maybe it'll add a little more content to what your companion/counter-class is faced with as well on raids and mob resists.</P><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>05-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:13 PM</span>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Rastaoun is one of the best level 50 wizards on Neriak server and he is equipped with the best equipment and spell upgrades.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have recently started to raid and I must say it is discouraging. The warlock in the raid has a much higher success rate on damaging target at level 45.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am level 49.5.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All adept 3 nukes and debuffs everything else adept1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Wyvern in Maiden's Gulch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Resists heat until about 40% health and then there is about a 30% chance some heat based spells land.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cold base spells work at about 20% suggested damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The info on Drayek: I can verify that OP said is correct and I have done him 4 times. The pets he has also have very high mitigaton.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>King Zalak: Everything resisted.......only that sort of hit at 25-35 per tick is heat convulsions and dispell arcane. Then at about 40% health all spells land at 30% suggested damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arch Lich: have heard nothing works except just mana transfer to your tanks and healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will be getting essential intromission at adept 3 to have more use in the raid. Why waste my mana on spells that do not do anything when I can transfer power to my healers and tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMHO Wizards in EQ2 are not that impressive.:smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am linking this thread to the combat skills and arts as the OP did and excellent job with depicting what this subclass has to deal with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Hamsterdan]

<P>If your a wizard and would like to see some mob resistances change, post your comments here to keep this post on top so the devs might actually look at it and do something about it.</P> <P> </P> <P>50 Wizard Neriak</P>

[Scrubbl]

<P>As it is now my lvl 50 wizard only shows up to raids to feed people power. Power battery for teh win. </P> <P>Basically if you have chanters, and your raid is not going to have any power problems wizars are just a complete waste of space. Except on the drakota's those are the only raid targets wizards actually are able to do decent dmg against.</P>

[slard2]

<DIV>I added Tremblar (Zek instance) to this list.  I also added pretty colors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He's not an exception to the wizard immunity situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>=(</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rastaoun</DIV> <DIV>50 wiz, 42 Sage</DIV> <DIV>Ascendance - <A href="http://www.ascendanceguild.com" target=_blank>www.ascendanceguild.com</A></DIV> <DIV>Turmoil</DIV> <DIV>32 Warden, 27 Carpenter</DIV> <DIV>Neriak Server</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<P>Seems clear, they didn't think or those that developed the mobs didn't communicate, but wizards certainly seem shafted in being able to do anything to the majority of raid mobs.</P> <P>Come one Sony, balance that.</P>

[MCG_DaMa]

<P>Nice Job on post!!</P> <P>I have to agree with you on these mobs the resistance is way out balanced! </P> <P>I would also like to add that After LU7 Other mobs None raid mobs have shown to have more resistance to Ice comet and other spells such as Protoflame.</P> <P>I have adept 3 of boths spells and prior to LU7 they worked fine but now Ice comet hits for 1700-1900 even on a grey mob!!??? Not all the time mind you but 40% of the time. </P> <P>Also Protoflame I updated to adept 3 to aid in soloing use to do nice damage 200-480 and taunt even pulling mobs members away Now it does 4-5 damage and never taunts. </P> <P>Has anyone else noticed this? </P>

[dustye]

I have just stopped trying to even cast on most raid mobs.  The other day, I think we hit about 7 targets and all of them were immune to cold.  Yay. <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Ok..let's switch gears then......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What can we do to be more effective. I am sure with the experienced players on this thread strategies can be devised.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe we need to on we can do versus what we can't do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say though...many a time I have opted to mana transfer versus nuking due to the high resist of heat and cold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night in Sol Eye and Perma.....7 giants.....4 level 49, 1 level 50 and 2 level 48 resisted piercing icicles and ball of flames.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is pretty bad. I debuffed (all at adept 3) piercing icicles/icy coil/icy wind/freezing whorl/incinerate  ..cast ball of flames (resisted).......icy flame always works and it is lower level spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say this is very strange.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe SOE needs to add more magic based spells to wizards versus everything elemental.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Off Topic: Since when are wizards only masters of only the elements. I thought wizards also had magic abilities. </DIV>

[Tabemo]

Great post man.  I feel your pain.  I usually feel pretty useless in those raids (especially overlord where pk has the same if not more resistances as overlord). With Darathar, since we used to raid him on a weekly basis: High resistance to fire Above Average Resistance to ice Sometimes Ice comet and ice dots hit him, sometimes they're resisted fire does low damage BoFlames hits for around 400 Drakotas: no problems here  (at least for the 3 drakotas before darathar) ice comet usually hits on them fire hits relatively well. <div></div>

[Sebastien]

Great post.  I hope SOE appreciates your efforts.. they should have been the first ones to notice the things you are describing. <div></div>

[OneBadAli]

<DIV>Great post, to bad SOE doesnt give a flying fooooooook what proof is laid out there. This update if it ever hits the servers wont happen for another year. They really dont care guys, 100's of wizards have religously complained about the issues with wizzy class(not just resists to cold/heat, but yet overall dps, our upgrades spells being downgrades, and warlocks excuse that were utility not dps, etc etc, ALL BS), yet the DEVS WONT EVEN acknowledge them. The last reply i heard on anything from the devs was around january. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its so frustrating i dont know where to begin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then you have warlocks posting vidz and ss's of themselves soloing epic mobs the same level as them, or soloing mobs ^^ @ 5 levels above them, yet devs just turn there little heads the opposite direction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its sickening. I absolutely CANNOT wait till Battlefield 2 comes out, im outta the crap hole of a time sink game that this is. Horrible balancing across mage class, crappy patches, bugs galore. Nothing left in it for me.</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>If any wizard can solo a 50 ^^ mob or a 50x 2 ^^^ please let us know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please try to solo Tundra Jack and Iceberg and then post screenshots and let us know the spell levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Master would not count as it is impossible for every wizard to have one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kalel]

<DIV>Not to derail here or anything but,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lady - I know plenty of Wizzies that can solo 50 ^^. Plus Iceberg/Ghost isnt a Triple tier group. He's ^^ Epic x 2. So he is able to be rooted. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I feel the wizzies pain on the Immune to Ice on most raids mobs. It sucks and should definately be fixed asap. Its stupid about all the immune to ice raid mobs. Im pulling for this change, but to toss warlocks under the bus because YOU cant solo a 50 ^^ mob wont help you. Lets focus on real problems here. Go wizzies!!! I hope it gets fixed soon as well. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kalel22 on <span class=date_text>05-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:08 PM</span>

[Dalchar]

Well, something else to throw in here to your list as to why you are required on some raids though, go through and list which ones use Cold and Heat AOEs where wizards are essential.  I know many of those use cold or fire AOEs, as they said "DPS doesn't exist in a vacuum" and no one buffs those resists to the capacity that a wizard does... So how much damage are wizards preventing even though they're not dealing?  I think that's half the problem though, so many mobs use an AOE to increase difficulty... sadly anything other than Elemental or Noxious is almost a death sentence, as many of the "evil" priests can't cast group cure trauma or arcane.   And best hope your priests always grabbed that group cure as many raids are dependant upon it. So AOEs are generally restricted to... cold... fire.... and poison... as there's not many big hitting disease spells and nukes.  I believe warlocks are rendered equally useless if something's poison resistant, but, they're essentially restricted to poison only nukes, not a choice of two, so that's why we probably don't see too many poison immune NPCs by comparison.  It does make more sense to balance these mobs much like they did the melee damage types. Short of changing all the epic encounters, I believe the best solution for both classes where there's going to be mobs highly resistant to whatever they're using would be a separate line of nukes or DOTs that either do a type of physical damage or magic damage... perhaps label them as "Only effective against epic NPCs" to address the problem.  Alternatively set them as not nearly as efficient as primary nukes.  That way you'd retain the usefulness and dps prevention due to resists, but able to deal some damage as well. <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>I must say I did solo double ups last night and level 50 wizard can solo level 49 and 50 double up. I had to try it for myself. I was letting dots continue after root that was my downfall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I am aware that level 50 double up can be done but I was at 1/4 health at the end of the battle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>King Zalak: Only until he is about 40% do spells start taking real effect except ice comet (LoL)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drayek: A little better- but again not until 40% health do spells start realy working.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arch Lich: forget it-- dispel arcane and heat convulsions and ice flame work.  Warlocks can root him in addition to stifle too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Meeting of The Minds: spells land more effectively on the oculus after spamming dsipel arcane and heat convulsions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone have any suggestions on how to kill these mobs or what is an effective strategy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[slard2]

<P>Dalcharis:</P> <P>Yes, I fully agree that wizard resistances are essential on raid mobs.  But the exact same thing is true of warlocks.  Many mobs cast both wizard and warlock spells.  Point being that there is a massive disparity between the spread of mob resistances.  The importance of buffs is an independent issue that is basically equal for both wizards and warlocks.</P> <P>----</P> <P>I have added Knubed to the list (just killed him).... no surprise that he is completely immune to cold.</P> <DIV>-rast</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Hand of Caldera very resistant to cold. Heat is ok but never hits for full amount.</DIV>