Ice Flame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LordSta]

What is up with this spell, I like this idea of having a spell that does both ice and fire damage. Did you know Warlock get this too, it was bad enough that we didn't get any poison spells as a sorcrer, pardon my spelling, but now at high levels they get to do fire and ice damage. This is now i see the order of unfairness 1. Sorcerer get only fire and ice, as per wizard 2. Wizard and Warlocks break off, Warlocks now do poison and i think disease, Wizards continue down the path of Ice and Fire. 3. Warlocks get equivilent spell damage with a shorter cast time, quicker recast, and power back from casting the spell. 4. Now Wizards and Warlocks get Ice Flame, new spell that does... Fire and Ice damage.  this is a huge andvantage Warlocks get, if they wanted to fight legendary creatures, is some are immune to there main for of attack, they can atleast start doing fire and ice damage if needed. Where is the fairness in any of this crap. I love how they redid damage a couple of patches ago, but there is such a huge gap between the wizards and warlocks. I don't want to nessisarily see Warlocks get revamped but, help us wizards be a bit more equal to our counter parts ~Magus~ <div></div>

[Eleis]

I thought it would be more advantageous to us? Since Warlocks don't get high end fire/cold debuff, they cannot utilize Ice Flame as well as we can. I personally wouldn't mind not having Disease/Poison, since I have no debuff for them and apparently at high levels no debuff = miserable damage/lots of resist.

[Onion]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>LordStash wrote:</P> <P><BR>3. Warlocks get equivilent spell damage with a shorter cast time, quicker recast, and power back from casting the spell.<BR><BR>~Magus~<BR><BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>HAH !?  They DD harder than wizards untill 50.... and the info you quoted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LordStash wrote:<BR><BR>4. Now Wizards and Warlocks get Ice Flame, new spell that does... Fire and Ice damage.  this is a huge andvantage Warlocks get, if they wanted to fight legendary creatures, is some are immune to there main for of attack, they can atleast start doing fire and ice damage if needed.<BR><BR><BR>~Magus~<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>True true, when something is immune to Fire or Ice we git for like 200 with a 900 dmg spell.  ETC</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was 49 at the time, without Ice Comet and i got parsed with a lvl 47 warlock in the group.  I was doing 150-200 DPS and he was doing much more.  The 1k (plus) DD always helps.  That is totally not fair.  For one, i think they should have made Ice Flame for only Wizards and unusable for Warlocks and visa versa for another spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SoE obviously cant count nor read to see the damage comparison.  All it takes is seeing the output, power cost, recast, etc.  And they could even the classes so easy.  Its a shame they dont pay someone to do such a thing.  This is sad...</DIV>

[Onion]

<DIV>Sorry for the double posts, but i gotta reply.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eleison wrote:<BR>I thought it would be more advantageous to us? Since Warlocks don't get high end fire/cold debuff, they cannot utilize Ice Flame as well as we can. I personally wouldn't mind not having Disease/Poison, since I have no debuff for them and apparently at high levels no debuff = miserable damage/lots of resist.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For one, Debuff does make you hit a lot harder.  For two, I would not concider it miserable damage with lots of resists.  More yes, but they are still hittable.  And that spell will be use hardcore with them.  Most Diseas/poison immune are not likely to be fire and ice immune.  Therefore, there is little reason to need a debuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Debuffs help a lot, but you can live without it.  And warlocks will live without it.  But it is not fair.  And i still do not see this as an advantage.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Onions- on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 PM</span>

[Eleis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Onions- wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sorry for the double posts, but i gotta reply.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eleison wrote:<BR>I thought it would be more advantageous to us? Since Warlocks don't get high end fire/cold debuff, they cannot utilize Ice Flame as well as we can. I personally wouldn't mind not having Disease/Poison, since I have no debuff for them and apparently at high levels no debuff = miserable damage/lots of resist.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For one, Debuff does make you hit a lot harder.  For two,<STRONG> I would not concider it miserable damage with lots of resists</STRONG>.  More yes, but they are still hittable.  And that spell will be use hardcore with them. <STRONG> Most Diseas/poison immune are not likely to be fire and ice immune.</STRONG>  Therefore, there is little reason to need a debuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Debuffs help a lot, but you can live without it.  And warlocks will live without it.  But it is not fair.  And i still do not see this as an advantage.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Onions- on <SPAN class=date_text>04-01-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:04 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow talk about false argument right there. Resist and Immune are totally different things. And if you do not consider lots of resist as miserable damage then you must be a) really stupid or b) just trying to make my post sound wrong. Resist = 0 damage. With debuff = less resist = more, positive damage. Quite obvious. And Immunities has nothing to do with anything I was trying to say. (read: resist != immune, they cannot coexist on a mob for one element) And anyway, most mobs, from my experience and data, resist most spells more or less the same rate(be it disease/poison/fire/cold). Immunity is a totally different subject.</P> <P>And, if a Warlock has to fight a disease/poison IMMUNE mob, he/she's screwed no matter what. One fire/cold spell won't make much of a difference.</P> <P>edit: Just saw this in your post "Debuffs help a lot, but you can live without it. " Now I take back all my explanations, please go level a bit more (preferable without debuffs) and see how well you spells land.</P><p>Message Edited by Eleison on <span class=date_text>04-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:15 AM</span>

[Onion]

<DIV>My point was i really dont feal like you get resisted that much without debuff... But nice try i guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have.... and thats why i say it is possible, Stop acting tough.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Onions- on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 PM</span>

[Eleis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Onions- wrote:<BR> <DIV>My point was i really dont feal like you get resisted that much without debuff... But nice try i guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have.... and thats why i say it is possible, Stop acting tough.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Onions- on <SPAN class=date_text>04-01-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:19 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Acting tough? Read my sig please. I read yours. You are a lv50 Wizard. I do respect that because I'm not lv50 yet and of course have no authority to comment on things at lv50, maybe at lv50 your spells magically (bad pun~) become less resistable. But sorry, in the 40's, even with all my adept III's and even a few Masters, I cannot possibly maintain a good DPS w/o Piercing Icicles and Icy Coil. Sometimes Freezing Wind must come in as well. I run parser A LOT, and there were many occasions my debuffs were resisted, and it shows very clearly on the data. I'm not talking about 10-20 dps loss, but 30+. It happens nearly all the time my debuffs get resisted.</P> <P>Sometimes(and that's an exaggeration really) I get quite lucky and manage to land Immo/BoFl/Ice Spear all without too much resist even if my debuffs were resisted, but that kind of luck is so rare I wouldn't even considering it fit to be "possible." Even if you do not get totally resisted, partial resist (i.e. spells do less damage than advertised by the spell description) can very well kill your dps as well. Heck even your burst damage will be screwed.</P> <P>I'm sorry, but "<STRONG>i really dont feal like you get resisted that much without debuff" </STRONG>does not do for me, nor does it for your party members. I know for a fact that w/o my trusty Piercing Icicles + Icy Coil combo there's a good chance my BoFl/Immo will be partially if not fully resisted, and with that evaporates a good portion of my dps.</P> <P>However, if you really feel it in your guts that you can do ok without debuffs, go ahead =S</P>

[Onion]

<DIV>I have,  as i have said before.  You do get a lot less DPS, i will admit.  And you do get a bit more resists, i will admit.  But its not like you life is on the line.  Nun the less, in the beginning i said that it a mob immune to warlocks is unlikely, there is no way that SoE would make a mob immune to both of warlocks items.  And there is no way they will make a mob immune to both fire and ice, that was my point. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to take this to an argument about who is wrong or right, you can cross server tell.  But there is no reason for that i guess huh.  There never is on this forum.  There is always the people that are stuck on one issue and will never change, nor realize the issue, and visa versa. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, im going to let this die as i have said enough.</DIV>