Intelligence??? & worthwhile Wizard attributes

[dan]

<DIV>Have been away from the game for a while and was just wondering.....if the following is still true (has ever been true <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From a wizard perspective in my understanding:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR - (a) increase amount of weight I can carry, (b) increase meele dmg</DIV> <DIV>AGI - (a) higher chance to meele hit something <STRONG>(b) higher chance to avoid being hit by something</STRONG> [usefull]</DIV> <DIV>STA - <STRONG>(a) increase max HP</STRONG> [usefull]</DIV> <DIV>INT - <STRONG>(a) increase may POWER</STRONG> [not so usefull as conversion rate INT->POWER is bad]</DIV> <DIV>WIZ - not usefull at all</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>So as a wizard which attributes to power???</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>My observation: When being hit the additional HP by STA will not save me, so I try avoid being hit by <STRONG>boosting AGI</STRONG>. At my level (29) INT converts to POWER at a ~2,5 ratio which looks very minor to any direct +POWER statistics or buffs or HP->Power spells. In solo Power never was a problem but survival in Groups Power counts. When looking for stats this gives me the following order:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. AGI</DIV> <DIV>2. INT / STA (int for group fights / sta for solo fights)</DIV> <DIV>3. STR (when fighting gray or seldom other occassion might want to meele)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>This was discussed earlier mainly because the handbook stated something different than in-game experience (e.g. INT will increase POWER and DAMAGE of spells)</DIV></DIV>

[Pkac]

I think INT was initially intended to affect your damage output, howver I don't think they had time before release, and took the easy option of just using it to increase Power pool. I would assume that adding int modifiers to damage is probably being looked at but will take a while to implement.... maybe even the first expansion.

[Onion]

<P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dan.k wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> At my level (29) INT converts to POWER at a ~2,5 ratio which looks very minor to any direct +POWER statistics or buffs or HP->Power spells.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ya, -- I have fairly high INT for a wiz (219 at lvl 48 w/ 12hr buffs) and it obviously ups my power pool.  Which i dont mind to much, cause the more power i have the more times i can hit for 870.  So its ok... Hoever, everything else, i do not care one bit about. </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> dan.k wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AGI - (a) higher chance to meele hit something <STRONG>(b) higher chance to avoid being hit by something</STRONG> [usefull]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You say AGI helps you not get hit, which is true.... But you gotta remember that a Wiz wears VLA and is stuck to VLA.  Anything you do, and aggro you get owns you hard.  I try to solo, and if a hold spell gets resisted... i am lucky to kill the mob (blue con) before i get to 60% health and sometimes i go extremely close to dying due to interupts and such.  No matter what, in a group, you pull aggro, you are going to get messed up, and hit hard for sure !!!</P> <P><BR>Wis does not have a use for sure.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <P>INT is all i worry about and i also see INT = Damage soon.  At least thats what i hope.  Untill now, ill keep my high int just so i can kit more often.</P> <P><BR><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dan.k wrote:<BR> <DIV> 1. AGI</DIV> <DIV>2. INT / STA (int for group fights / sta for solo fights)</DIV> <DIV>3. STR (when fighting gray or seldom other occassion might want to meele)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>I personally dont care about str because you never hold that much, nor melee often.  AGI has no use cause if you dodge one hit, another hits you for 1/2 your HP.  Stamina Is good for hp, but either way, you are going to get owned.</P> <P> </P> <P>You just have to try to get good groups and avoid soloing and control your aggro in that group.  These were all just my opinions.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><BR> </P>

[dan]

<P><STRONG>My question goes more in this direction:</STRONG></P> <P>Example...what whould you choose ???</P> <P>+3int +6agi +20power = approx. +28power</P> <P>+6int +3agi +15power = approx. + 30power</P> <P>If INT whould add DMG not only POWER it would be an easy choise.....<STRONG>and how is +INTdifferent from +POWER?</STRONG></P><p>Message Edited by dan.k on <span class=date_text>03-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:32 AM</span>

[Zcenicx]

<P>Intelligence is power, the higher level you are the more power per int you get. At 45 I get 4-5 power for each int.</P> <P>IMO the best armor you can get is what gives both, so....</P>

[Onion]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dan.k wrote: <P>+6int +3agi +15power = approx. + 30power</P> <P>Message Edited by dan.k on <SPAN class=date_text>03-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:32 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I would go with those stats.  INT give you a larger power pool, making it so you can cast more times.  Agi is alright, but either way you are going to get beat up if you get aggro, as i said above.</P> <P>That is what i would personally go with if it was me.  </P> <P>GL man, and just have fun at what you do.  I have seem some wizards and other mage classes that dont care about INT and had a much lower power pool.  But at this time, the way sony has it, they hit just as hard.  They just have to conserve a bit more and use their health to power spells.<BR></P>

[EvilAmi]

<DIV> <DIV>It doesn't really matter since you can usually tell which item is supposed to be the "better" item.. but if you have to choose, choose AGI... there have been plenty of times where I aggro a mob... stop nuking... avoid 3 hits and live because i have more agi then i do power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>besides, we have harvest and cannabilize line of spells which allows us easy power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>agi >>> int</DIV></DIV>

[Onion]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EvilAmigo wrote: <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>agi >>> int</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thats just your opinion.  As all of this is.  But AGI is not better than INT to me.  Power pool to a wizard is like STR to a fighter.  So, get the INT so you have a larger power pool to nuke more.  You have healers that should ward and heal you, you have tanks that should taunt.  The skill you need to learn as wizard is to NOT pull aggro, dont depend on the others, but have some skill as wizard, dont just press nuke's 24/7 and hope they have your back.  If you dont pull aggro, you dont have to worry about AGI... If you have high INT, you have a high Power pool.  If you happen to pull aggro, and you get hit, you are going to get messed up, thats all there is to it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Final thought, get high INT, forget about everything else, and control your aggro and the day will be beautiful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW, my stats at 49 are 67 str, 63 agi, 77 sta, 229 int, and 70 wis.  That gives me 2709 power with 2247 health.</DIV> <DIV>Power pool and controlling aggro is a must... If you do those, then you dont need to have high AGI.  But do what you wish.  This is how i feel, and obviously others feel different.</DIV>

[MentalFoc]

Problem is, most items have high INT and low power. The next item has no INT and high power. Used the last item give more power, so a mage is better off having low INT in EQ2 (?)... sounds smart... not. My suggestions, choose any you like: 1. If a spell does 400-600dmg, having high INT will give you more 500-600 hits, low INT will give more 400-500 hits. 2. High INT = High power-regen. 3. High INT = Less resists (like it was meant to be?) Any would be fine. Right now, a mage is better off with low INT items. A mage with low INT... sounds stupid to me (?)

[Zcenicx]

<DIV>I normally have 202 Intelligence. Descry and my ring gives ~20 more.</DIV> <DIV>Still got more than 2,5k power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Normally the best items are the ones that give a medium amount of intelligence and power, not the ones that are high on one separate. My imbued cedar wand (7 int 36 power) gives me more net power than a +13 int dagger or a +55 power wand.</DIV>

[Kraf]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zcenicx wrote:<div></div> <div>I normally have 202 Intelligence. Descry and my ring gives ~20 more.</div> <div>Still got more than 2,5k power.</div> <div> </div> <div>Normally the best items are the ones that give a medium amount of intelligence and power, not the ones that are high on one separate. My imbued cedar wand (7 int 36 power) gives me more net power than a +13 int dagger or a +55 power wand.</div><hr></blockquote>Do you notice a decrease in power/Int beyond 200 Int?</span><div></div>

[roarfrost]

<DIV>IMO, if you are almost always in groups, go with +Int.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you like to solo alot of the time, go with +Agi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My toon has high agility, and while I often have troubles with running out of mana, I can always harvest more if I'm not being pummeled to death in two attacks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, (if your race can) take the +5 Defense trait. And Distorting visions spell gives you another +2 to defense. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Onion]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MentalFocus wrote:<BR>Problem is, most items have high INT and low power.<BR>The next item has no INT and high power. <BR>Used the last item give more power, so a mage is better off having low INT in EQ2 (?)... sounds smart... not.<BR><BR>My suggestions, choose any you like:<BR><BR>1. If a spell does 400-600dmg, having high INT will give you more 500-600 hits, low INT will give more 400-500 hits.<BR>2. High INT = High power-regen.<BR>3. High INT = Less resists (like it was meant to be?)<BR><BR>Any would be fine. Right now, a mage is better off with low INT items. A mage with low INT... sounds stupid to me (?)<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>ROFL.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>High INT has nothin to do with your power regen.  You did have those heritage choices that are given to you as what ever levels they were where you could pick faster regen or bigger pool.  Lets not combine the two, because they have nothing to do with eachother</DIV>

[Onion]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zcenicx wrote:<BR> <DIV>I normally have 202 Intelligence. Descry and my ring gives ~20 more.</DIV> <DIV>Still got more than 2,5k power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Normally the best items are the ones that give a medium amount of intelligence and power, not the ones that are high on one separate. My imbued cedar wand (7 int 36 power) gives me more net power than a +13 int dagger or a +55 power wand.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Like said earlier.  INT is not only your power pool, but that is a large part of it.  With the 229 int i have with only 12 hour buffs, i see that INT seems to allow me to hit harder, more often, to cause more damage.  I still have more power than i think you will get when you get to 49....  You have 2.5 now, and i have 2747.  I really do not see you gaining that much it the wee little 4 lvls that seporate us.</P> <P>Therefore...............I still will stay with my 18int activatables, 13int duel weild, and my 12int symbol.  Thanks.</P> <DIV>45th Circle........ not lvl..... hah... Well, whatever......</DIV><p>Message Edited by Onions- on <span class=date_text>03-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:06 AM</span>

[Tyrant Invict]

INT is the only of the 5 stats I worry about.  As others have stated, no piddly amount of agility is going to save you from getting the beat down, so don't rely on avoiding damage, and don't lose power in the hope you might dodge the occasional attack.  Take the item which gives you the most total power: base power + INT added power. <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>According to my stats from last night, in an almost full group, at level 42 and with 249 INT, I had just shy ('bout 20 points) 2900 power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Power, power, power.  It's all that matters.</DIV>

[dan]

<P>Thanks to all....</P> <P>it would be quite interesting if you could post your <STRONG>level</STRONG> and your <STRONG>power per int ratio</STRONG>.....as this could influence the decision regarding +int and +power items.</P>

[Kilferf 'U]

<DIV> <P>Int! solo <EM>and</EM> grouped! </P> <P>I couldn't imagine trading my int for agility...... unless i was one of those wizards who can't solo and end up getting hit alot. Seriously, if you're getting hit so often that you'd consider stacking up on agi lol....you might wanna reroll now  :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P> <P>/bow</P></DIV>

[Kraf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dan.k wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks to all....</P> <P>it would be quite interesting if you could post your <STRONG>level</STRONG> and your <STRONG>power per int ratio</STRONG>.....as this could influence the decision regarding +int and +power items.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>At lv 33, it is approximately 3 power/Int.</P> <P>Of the abilities, I prioritize Int. Int=Power, and I generally run out of Power before I run out of Health, whether in a group or solo. This tells me I need more Power. Just calculate how much total Power you will get from an item between the Int bonus and the direct Power bonus.</P> <P>Agi does help defense, but if you prioritize Agi enough to make a difference, I expect the opportunity cost in Power would be so high you would still come out behind. Sta=Health, which doesn't hurt, but mobs hit so hard through our flimsy armor that focusing on Sta won't make much of a difference. Treat Sta like Int, calculate how much total Health you will get from an item between the Sta bonus and the direct Health bonus.</P>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:<BR>Int! solo <EM>and</EM> grouped! <BR>I couldn't imagine trading my int for agility...... unless i was one of those wizards who can't solo and end up getting hit alot. Seriously, if you're getting hit so often that you'd consider stacking up on agi lol....you might wanna reroll now <BR>/bow<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No reason to be rude.</P> <P>If I'm getting hit more than you, perhaps I am soloing more difficult encounters? With more and tougher opponents?</P> <P>If you have tried loading up with *much* agility and +defense and not seen much benefit, then fine, you can have an informed opinion. But my guess is you don't know what you are talking about, and are just assuming that +agility isn't worth it.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Kilferf 'U]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roarfrost wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:<BR>Int! solo <EM>and</EM> grouped! <BR>I couldn't imagine trading my int for agility...... unless i was one of those wizards who can't solo and end up getting hit alot. Seriously, if you're getting hit so often that you'd consider stacking up on agi lol....you might wanna reroll now <BR>/bow<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No reason to be rude.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Was just being honest.. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P>If I'm getting hit more than you, perhaps I am soloing more difficult encounters? With more and tougher opponents?</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff33>Then you're STILL doing something wrong, IMHO.</FONT></P> <P>If you have tried loading up with *much* agility and +defense and not seen much benefit, then fine, you can have an informed opinion. But my guess is you don't know what you are talking about, and are just assuming that +agility isn't worth it.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>Aren't you the Wiz getting hit alot? I cannot imagine what you're fighting solo that would require you to take more than 2 hits, ever, for anything. I'm soloing ^ ^ green and blue's on a regular basis..which mobs are giving YOU a problem, exactly? I don't get hit....if i did i'd be DEAD. I win because i can finish the battle, not avoid it.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>In my opinion, you must be doing something seriously wrong to have to consider stacking on agi over int. If it's your playstyle than so be it, i'm just giving the OP a view from someone who feels he's being slightly misled. MY guess is, you're still learning how to solo. :smileywink:</DIV>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff66> I cannot imagine what you're fighting solo that would require you to take more than 2 hits, ever, for anything. I'm soloing ^ ^ green and blue's on a regular basis..which mobs are giving YOU a problem, exactly? I don't get hit....if i did i'd be DEAD. I win because i can finish the battle, not avoid it.</FONT><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Depending on your level, I doubt you are soloing ^^ blues on a "regular basis". Keep up that bravado though son, maybe someone will be impressed. I don't know what level you are at, but at 41, some of the ^^ greens and many of the ^^ blues have a ton of hit points and can hit you for 1200-1400. You try getting hit twice from one of those and let me know it turns out.</P> <P>Try taking on 4 greens at that level. Roots/stuns/stifles only help you so much. They WILL get to you to hit you.<BR></P>

[EvilAmi]

<DIV>oh, no amount of agility is going to save you from being killed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>agility means you have more of a chance to completely dodging an incoming attack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>currently i have almost 60% dodging (granted it is less for raid mobs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so you tell me, even if my dodge goes down to like 40% that if i can take two hits.. and the mob aggros me, i stop nuking, there is a high chance i will dodge 1 out of 2 swings, there is a good chance that i will dodge 2 out of 3 swings.. usually tank gets aggro back by the 2nd or 3rd swing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so umm.. how is agility completely useless for a wizard?</DIV>

[Kilferf 'U]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roarfrost wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff66> I cannot imagine what you're fighting solo that would require you to take more than 2 hits, ever, for anything. I'm soloing ^ ^ green and blue's on a regular basis..which mobs are giving YOU a problem, exactly? I don't get hit....if i did i'd be DEAD. I win because i can finish the battle, not avoid it.</FONT><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Depending on your level, I doubt you are soloing ^^ blues on a "regular basis". <FONT color=#ffff66>39, 40, 41...42....ect. Try OLS for noobs, at 40 they should be green to you, i think they're level 36ish.</FONT> <FONT color=#ffff66>And by regular basis i mean whenever i'm bored, not questing, looking for a quick adrenaline rush, ect. I can tear through orange solo mobs faster than i can kill ^ ^, but they're really fun and challenging and obviously chest drops are nice.</FONT> </P> <P>Keep up that bravado though son, maybe someone will be impressed. <FONT color=#ffff66>I'm giving you good info, and you think i'm trying to impress you?</FONT> <FONT color=#ffff66>And lets assume that my being 29 makes me your senior, would you take my advice or be able to respect my opinion then, son?</FONT> </P> <P>I don't know what level you are at, but at 41, some of the ^^ greens and many of the ^^ blues have a ton of hit points and can hit you for 1200-1400. <FONT color=#ffff66>I'm almost 43 now, and i've ONLY been doin it for the last 5 or so levels. I never played EQ1 so this game is still kinda new to me/learnin the class. I'm assuming the wiz who know whats up don't even bother posting in here, mostly dribble.</FONT> </P> <P>You try getting hit twice from one of those and let me know it turns out. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>Don't get hit.....OR! Get hit, because you you're not able to keep them at bay (no fault but your own, for various reasons) and come to the conclusion that stacking AGI is going to be better for you than stacking INT. You're allowed to come to that conclusion, it's your playstyle that brought you there. It is my opinion that you're gimping yourself, and you're gimping other potential good wizzy by misleading them.</FONT></P> <P>Try taking on 4 greens at that level. Roots/stuns/stifles only help you so much. They WILL get to you to hit you.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>If you're soloing 4 critter mobs, 3 of them should be at a distance, then 2, then 1, then none. If you're not doing this, or you're method simply requires you to have more AGI, then it is my opinion that you are doing something terribly wrong. They don't hit for 1000-1200...</FONT><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EvilAmigo wrote:<BR> <DIV>oh, no amount of agility is going to save you from being killed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66>Where did i say that, my little friend?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>agility means you have more of a chance to completely dodging an incoming attack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66>Yes, it does. That would be ideal for someone who engages in hand to hand/melee combat.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>currently i have almost 60% dodging (granted it is less for raid mobs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66>Nice, i don't stack AGI.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so you tell me, even if my dodge goes down to like 40% that if i can take two hits.. and the mob aggros me, i stop nuking, there is a high chance i will dodge 1 out of 2 swings, there is a good chance that i will dodge 2 out of 3 swings.. usually tank gets aggro back by the 2nd or 3rd swing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66>I don't group with [Removed for Content] tanks who lose agro, ie pickup group tanks. If i take agro from my friends, it is on purpose and at the end of the fight when i just let lose. Now if you're saying you have this problem sooo often that you need to stack AGI , well then you have a more serious problem than you think. :smileysurprised:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so umm.. how is agility completely useless for a wizard?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66>It is perfectly fine for the Wizard who gets hit alot.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9933>Which Wiz are you?</FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>So much for tryin to help the OP make a more informed decision eh? :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm done here btw, can PM me if ya really wanna discuss..</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Gora]

<P>I routinely group with tanks a couple levels lower than me.  I have all my damage spells in adept3.  I would need to cut my dps by about a 3rd to a half to avoid taking aggro every so often.  I've done it before, I can do it when it's going to be an issue, but I really don't see the point when I know i can take a couple hits, root the mob, healer tosses me a heal and on we go.</P> <P>I am definitely an advocate of agi/sta over int under the current system.  </P> <P>When they fix int to do something, i'll break out the + int stuff, until then, gimme that 6 agi ring.</P> <P> </P> <P>Goraga</P> <P>47 gnome wizard</P>

[MentalFoc]

<div><b>ROFL.</b></div> <div><b> </b></div> <div><b>High INT has nothin to do with your power regen.  You did have those heritage choices that are given to you as what ever levels they were where you could pick faster regen or bigger pool.  Lets not combine the two, because they have nothing to do with eachother</b> That's the thing, you didn't seem to understand. Most INT rings have no power at all (or low power) So I should always choose a ring with a lot of power (not INT). So the deal is - a mage shouldn't have high int in EQ2 - it doesn't matter. Any of my suggestion (only one) would actually make it  useful to have high INT.  I would prefer the resist deal (like it said in the manual). Right now - it just means jack - better to get a high power with AGI. </div> <div></div>

[Admh]

<P>Suggest u focus on +power, + HP and + stamina. The rest of your stats don't matter. </P> <P> </P> <P>Reasons are because when you're almost lvl 50, 200int has a soft cap. Once you've reached that mark you STOP gaining big int -> power ratio. As a wizard, just focus everything u can to pwer. Get as much + power items.. Don't even bother buying any +9int items. If you see a +6int, +30power and a +10int and +20int item. Pick the one with the most power. At lvl 50 you can achive hitting 200int easily. </P> <P>Right now I'm at 220ish Int unbuffed and 250int buffed *approx. my mana is at 2991. On raids, I can hit as high as 350+ int and i'd only gain like 200-300mana. That's including all the buffs of other classes that increases mana pool and intelligence. If the cap never existed i'd have well over 4k mana on a raid.</P> <P>It's best to focus on your HP.. because of this high hp = high mana  when using leach spells and manastone.</P>

[strate]

<DIV>I could have hit 212 int if I stick to earlier items.  However,  I keep it at 200 and swap out some of the items that adds to int and nothing else.  As far as I know, anything above 200 adds only a very small amount of power.  Probably not even enuff to throw an Ice Comet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For eg, I swap out flowing orbs necklace (I know it is a favourite among wiz, even those at L50:smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and put in Rem Eye Necklace.  I lost 3 points of int but gain more resists.  I'd say its a good tradeoff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the +12int hex dolls, there's even more chance to swap out old +int items for +sta, +agi and +resists ones :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Strademus</DIV> <DIV>L50 High Elf Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow Server</DIV>

[Dantra]

<div></div>Thank god for those things (dolls I mean) allows u to utilize slots that are normally wasted of things of cosmetic value. I agree tho that power and agi/sta (in that order) is definately way to go. Its cake getting above 200int with normal buffs at 50, Descry alone adds 20 int roughly. Also  a few heritages add a significant amount of int and power as well (Golden Efreeti Boots, Tobrins Eye patch, Stein of Moggok, etc) not to mention fairly simple at hi level to acquire hi int pants even without raiding. Leveling up I usually had decent to good gear just off mob drops. I never even bought a single piece of gear from broker until 48 or so.  In fact I sincerely believe to try and max int casually for most of game, but try and avoid pitfalls like I've seen lately: 8int 4 power 5 health (random example but i hope u get idea).  IMHO, and I know with matters like these only time will tell as there is no definitive way to prove who is right. Goodhunting<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dantrag0 on <span class=date_text>03-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 PM</span>

[Kulpr]

Just thinking about the fact that int doesn't affect our chance to hit or our dmg output just mana pool. Do you think that this was intentional or just overlooked? Do you think that this is why the mage classes have been so [Removed for Content] until the last patch? I think that this was overlooked and i'm suprised that their solution last patch wasn't fixing this as opposed to just tweaking our dps. It doesn't make any sense to me that mellee class dmg and to hit ratio are affected by str and agi, but caster spells are not. I can't remember back to EQ1 cause its been like 3 years and a ALOT of other mmorpg's in between but wasn't at least our dmg or to hit ratio affected by our int? Or am I just getting confused with other mmorpg's? It just seems kind of strange cause every other mmorpg i've played ( and I've tried or played almost all of them since EQ1 release) int or whatever it may be in that game always affects at least two things. Either mana pool, chance to hit or damage dealt. Some have int affecting both chance to hit and dmg while still having wisdom/spirit affect the mana pool (mage classes only obviously). EQ2 is all about raids quests and getting super rare equipment and community. What's the point or need to get really good equipment as a caster if the only main benefit we gain from it is resists and a bigger mana pool? No matter how high we take our vitality at most we will be able to survive one extra attack if we are lucky and that's with gear concentrating on boosting that stat.  Agi is questionable and we would need some kind of official formula to decide if getting +agi gear  is worth it or not. Cause if its anything like shadowbane's system then there is no point. More or less all it came down to in shadowbane was comparing the attacker's attack rating vs the defender's defense. If the defender's defense was even or higher then the attack rating there was a very good chance to dodge the attack. If it was 80% or lower then almost every single attack would hit. EQ lvl difference also plays a huge role concerning any passive skills. Most likely any mobs you would encounter fighting in a group are white-red and are higher lvl then you therefore your passive defense vs them is significantly reduced if not eliminated fully. Ditto for raids. I know when playing my bruiser through lvl's 20-30 couple months ago, I would be a better tank then any heavy armor tank vs greens and blues due to my evasion buffs. But as soon as I took on white or higher my evasion % would drop significantly and my tanking skills were questionable. Showing the significant role lvl difference plays. To sum up agi prolly won't affect your dodging skills in groups, vit at best will allow you to survive 1 extra hit. So int should be the only thing we are worrying about even though all it does is add to mana pool. <div></div>

[Blood*Angel]

<DIV>i'm a little confused</DIV> <DIV>so how much does one int equal to X amount of power</DIV> <DIV>and from reading from this post, i should just get items that have heaps of power on it and not int? Seems like Int is quite useless in comparison to pure power items</DIV>

[dan]

<DIV>Thanks to your feedback...well  I guess the story goes like this....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Some of the attributes (STR, AGI, STA, INT, WIS) add value to your class while others don't (e.g. WIS at the moment does not add any value to a mage class)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. The convertion ratio of the attributes depend on level (as I said at lev 29 wizard int to power converts apprpx. at 1 to 3.5, while at higher levels the ratio seem to improve to something like 1 to 5 *based on info from post in this thread*)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. All attributes seem to have a soft cap at 200 (e.g. the conversion ratio for any point above 200 is much worse than for any point below 200)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Dependend on play style and personal preference one might want to boost one type of attribute over another- see differnt opinions in this thread</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>---</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My personal - lets say "conclusions" on choosing what attribures to focus on are:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. It makes a difference at what level you are to take a decision mainly because of "soft-cap at 200" and end-game play style "more raiding" (e.g. lower level vs. end game scenario "lev 50")</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. It makes a diffenrence what play style you have mainly because of active buffs and battle tactics like aggro control (solo, group, raid) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. For a mage at the moment INT = POWER so, if you want to max power, collect the items which have the highest total power (combination of INT and POWER stats)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. +POWER > +INT ---> Example: An item with +25 POWER is theoretically equal to an item with +5 INT (which let's say at your level translate to exactly +25 POWER before you reach soft cap). Remember if you are fully buffed grouped or whatever...should you exceed the soft-cap of 200, the +5 INT wont translate to +25 POWER anymore !!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5. For my play style STR and obviously WIS dont matter. So the choise is down to AGI, STA, INT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>6. POWER is what I need, so my <STRONG>first</STRONG> preference is <STRONG>+ INT</STRONG> as long as I do not reach the <STRONG>soft-cap of 200</STRONG> (notice: that I only look at attributes.... this +INT preference does not necessarily mean that I would pick a +3 INT +20 POWER item over a + 6 AGI + 20 POWER item but that I would pick an +3 INT +20 POWER item over a +3 AGI + 20 POWER item)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>7. My <STRONG>second</STRONG> preference is<STRONG> STA</STRONG> as it increases my chance to survive because a) I have more HP and b) I have indirectly more POWER because of the HP to POWER conversion spells, my <STRONG>third</STRONG> preference is <STRONG>AGI</STRONG>, as it helps to avoid taking DMG</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8. Once I reach the INT soft-cap at 200, I will focus more on STA (as this can be converted to POWER) until I reach the soft cap of 200 as well and if so re-focus on INT or AGI.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>9. I assume once I hit level 40 buffs and general +INT of some items will bring me to the +200 INT soft cap. So I guess from level 40 on, I will be much more interested in +STA items....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hehe...and after all I wonder if it all matters at the end...not sure if stats are making such a bid difference at all....</DIV> <DIV>nevertheless we had a nice discussion, thanks...lol</DIV><p>Message Edited by dan.k on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:09 AM</span>

[Onion]

<DIV>Ummmmmmm.... Ok...?</DIV>

[Renvhoek]

<span><blockquote><hr>MentalFocus wrote:<div><b>ROFL.</b></div> <div><b> </b></div> <div><b>High INT has nothin to do with your power regen.  You did have those heritage choices that are given to you as what ever levels they were where you could pick faster regen or bigger pool.  Lets not combine the two, because they have nothing to do with eachother</b> That's the thing, you didn't seem to understand. Most INT rings have no power at all (or low power) So I should always choose a ring with a lot of power (not INT). So the deal is - a mage shouldn't have high int in EQ2 - it doesn't matter. Any of my suggestion (only one) would actually make it  useful to have high INT.  I would prefer the resist deal (like it said in the manual). Right now - it just means jack - better to get a high power with AGI. </div> <div></div><hr></blockquote> The more intelligence you have the more power you have. The more power you have, the higher your power regain is. </span><div></div>

[dan]

<DIV>Did not "we" all agree that the more power the better?</DIV> <DIV>But on the same hand said that when you look at items to look at total power given (as a combination of +INT and +POWER), while recognizing that the INT to POWER conversion will get very bad after the soft cap of 200. This fact will (at least in end-game or fully buffed group) decrease the value of +INT significantly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You stated:</DIV> <DIV>The more intelligence you have the more power you have. - TRUE</DIV> <DIV>The more power you have, the higher your power regain is. - TRUE (if regain is at a % rate of total power)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I understand that:</DIV> <DIV>- The rate at which power is regenerated is either a <STRONG><U>fix value</U> per second</STRONG> or a <STRONG><U>percentage</U> of total power per second.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>- <STRONG>INT does not affect any of the both</STRONG> (either the fix value or the percentage)</DIV> <DIV>- The higher the total power the higher the power regen per second if based on a percentage (well that's a no-brainer) - but still does not give INT any other effect than increasing power pool</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Question:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>- Does any one know by what formula power is regenerated? (a) in combat (b) outside of combat</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>- How does drink or any other modifier influence regen (e.g. for drink be precise: Tier x drink at adventure level nn)</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>---> </STRONG>This is what I found (at level 32): Out of combat regen without any modifieres is <STRONG>4%</STRONG> of total power per tick. Tick is <STRONG>every 6 seconds</STRONG>. If I am not mistaken I have choosen a trait with +3% regen, thats why I calculate out of combat regen of 4,12%. (if not by trait, well it is 4,12% instead of 4%)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>---></STRONG> Well and if this is the case I am happy I still qualify for a respec and choose +3% total power instead of +3% regen as: 100% Power * 4% * (1+3%) = 100% Power * (1+3%) * 4%, e.g. regen per tick will be the same if you choose +3% power or +3% regen, however your total power will be higher in the first case <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>---></STRONG> Pls. proove me wrong....the more I try to understand the rules behind game mechanics, the more I start to wonder whether this is the first RPG game ever, lol</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by dan.k on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:09 AM</span>

[Haydn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>What a misinforming thread I hope people will read my post before before they stop reading and take what was said as fact. Before you act like you know what you are talking about why don't you read the EQ2 manual. From the EQ2 manual; • Intelligence represents your character’s powers of reasoning and overall intellect. It can influence magic use, affecting magical damage. For Mage adventure archetypes and the Bard profession, it also affects Power. As a Wizard INT allows you to hit on the higher end of the spell's damage range and it also gives you Power. I have done tests to find the ratio of INT to Power. Pre 200 INT you will recieve an average of 5 Power per INT, post 200 you will recieve an average of 2 Power per INT. <i>"If you see a +6int, +30power and a +10int and +20power item. Pick the one with the most power." - Rumil</i> Rumil the additional 4 INT on that item would ammount to either 20 Power pre 200 INT or 8 Power after 200 INT, I think I'll sacrifice 2 Power for 4 INT towards my spell damage. <i>Right now, a mage is better off with low INT items" High INT = Less resists" "High INT = High power-regen." "better to get a high power with AGI" "a mage shouldn't have high int in EQ2 - it doesn't matter." - Mentalfocus</i> Mentalfocus I don't even know where to begin with you, you are just wrong. From the EQ2 Manual; • Wisdom is a measure of your character’s spiritual strength and willpower. It can affect your character’s ability to avoid magical attacks and his or her accuracy wielding magical attacks against opponents. For Priest adventure archetypes and the Crusader profession, Wisdom also affects Power. <i>"WIZ - not usefull at all" "WIS at the moment does not add any value to a mage class" ""obviously WIS dont matter" - dan.k "Wis does not have a use for sure" - Onions 50 Wizard</i> WIS is extremely important, what could be a bigger waste of power than having your spell resisted and wasting that 250 power your adept3 Ice Comet just cost. Also WIS effects your ability to resist magic spells, I know ive been saved more than once during a raid due to resisting a spell. <i>"agi >>> int" Pyros 50 wizard</i> I still can't believe a 50 wizard said this but seeing is believing. AGI is completely useless to a lvl 50 Wizard, we never get hit by melee and if we do it is because the whole raid group is getting wiped and trust me if  a 52 ^^^ x4 is on you, you are going down. <i>My second preference is STA as it increases my chance to survive because a) I have more HP and b) I have indirectly more POWER because of the HP to POWER conversion spells - dan.k</i> 1 STA = 6 HP. A wizard is not supposed to be getting hit in a group. The only time you will get hit in a group is by AE and while you are experiencing it is generally a low damage spell making any interest in STA negligible. I have beat every mob in EQ2 and have not had this scenario come up, but there were a couple times when high STA raid gear could be used to withstand unavoidable raid mob AE, where the AE is taking off 1000-2000 HP a tick. But that would be a secondary set of the highest STA pieces available and like I said I haven't had to chose this method yet. Coverting HP to Power does not have anything to do with your max HP since healers are there to keep you alive, if a wizard is in the red converting HP to Power something else is seriously wrong. I never really solo'd as a wizard I found it difficult and the exp was alot slower compared to a group but that was before the patches that changed solo exp. So if you like to solo it might be wise to have a seperate set of solo gear which focuses on AGI to avoid melee hits and STA for more HP. I really would not know if the trade off for lower INT and WIS is worth it, but that is the only time I could see STA and AGI being usefull. So there you have it. In the future please watch what you post as not to misinform the EQ2 community when you haven't even read your manual yet. - 50 Wizard Grobb <div></div><p>Message Edited by Haydn78 on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:41 AM</span>

[dan]

<DIV><STRONG>Hey that's a response!</STRONG> Obviously there is always some emotion when writing. Same is true for myself, however I try to hold it back, <STRONG>not to start another flame thread</STRONG> <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, let me back up. I have read the manual. Who says the manual is right? Please also see another thread by myself adressing this issue.</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=43424#M43424" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=43424#M43424</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As <STRONG>no hard information about dmg calculation, resists, etc. is available</STRONG> and hundrets of different opinions exist (as you can see in this thread), I tried to formulate something which is generally ture. As everything in this game is somehow calculated...there must somehow be an optimum or multiple equally good settings. As I am a level 32 wizard, I surely at this point have to what level 50 wizards say, if I want to talk about end-game, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said I am right and I know everything. I might say something wrong. Well but that's why I opened the thread in the first place, to have an educated discussion and pool of information from everyone playing. There is no intention to find out who is the most clever, best educated, what so ever player. The goal is to find a strategy for myself and to derive some general guidelines for various playstyles (solo / group / endgame / etc.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well in general I am happy that you (Haydyn7<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> are throwing everything upside down now. That brings back live to this thread. I believe most of us have read the manual and were just not experiencing what was stated there...and would be interested if you have any proove besides the (outdated) manual (pls follow my link above) for your statements:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand from your message:</DIV> <DIV>(1) You are not a solo type player and focus on group play style</DIV> <DIV>(2) You say INT not only affect's power pool but also magic use (<FONT color=#ff0000>what is that supposed to be</FONT>) and magical damage (<FONT color=#ff0000>well a hell lot of people have parsed with INT equipped and without INT equipped / buffed -> they did not notice a different damage pattern</FONT>)</DIV> <DIV>(3) You say INT to POWER conversion is 1:5 pre 200 soft-cap (<FONT color=#ff0000>well I guess true for level 50, around level 30 it is 1:3</FONT>)</DIV> <DIV>(4) You say WIS does influence the ability to avoid magical attachs and increase accuaracy (lower resist rate) of doing magical attacks (<FONT color=#ff0000>do you have any proove for this</FONT>)</DIV> <DIV>(5) In you play style (group) your preference is somewhat like (1) INT (2) WIZ (3) STA (4) AGI (5) STR</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zcenicx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Onions- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zcenicx wrote:<BR> <DIV>I normally have 202 Intelligence. Descry and my ring gives ~20 more.</DIV> <DIV>Still got more than 2,5k power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Normally the best items are the ones that give a medium amount of intelligence and power, not the ones that are high on one separate. My imbued cedar wand (7 int 36 power) gives me more net power than a +13 int dagger or a +55 power wand.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Like said earlier.  INT is not only your power pool, but that is a large part of it.  With the 229 int i have with only 12 hour buffs, i see that INT seems to allow me to hit harder, more often, to cause more damage.  I still have more power than i think you will get when you get to 49....  You have 2.5 now, and i have 2747.  I really do not see you gaining that much it the wee little 4 lvls that seporate us.</P> <P>Therefore...............I still will stay with my 18int activatables, 13int duel weild, and my 12int symbol.  Thanks.</P> <DIV>45th Circle........ not lvl..... hah... Well, whatever......</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Onions- on <SPAN class=date_text>03-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:06 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>FYI Onions:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>L49, only permabuffs up:</DIV> <DIV>Power: 2772</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And - Circle is the correct word, not level.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zcenicx on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:44 PM</span>

[Lady Uaelr]

<P>Onions that is great...you are level 45 and have 2700+ power. I am 46 and only have 2607 with descry on.</P> <P>Can you share with us what equipment you are using. Also, can you tell us what activatable 18int item you have.</P> <P>Also , INT is a higher priority than AGI IMO. </P> <P>My goal is to get to 3K power and I know ther must be a way of doing it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Onions please share....+)</P>

[Lady Uaelr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Admhel wrote:<BR> <P>Suggest u focus on +power, + HP and + stamina. The rest of your stats don't matter. </P> <P> </P> <P>Reasons are because when you're almost lvl 50, 200int has a soft cap. Once you've reached that mark you STOP gaining big int -> power ratio. As a wizard, just focus everything u can to pwer. Get as much + power items.. Don't even bother buying any +9int items. If you see a +6int, +30power and a +10int and +20int item. Pick the one with the most power. At lvl 50 you can achive hitting 200int easily. </P> <P>Right now I'm at 220ish Int unbuffed and 250int buffed *approx. my mana is at 2991. On raids, I can hit as high as 350+ int and i'd only gain like 200-300mana. That's including all the buffs of other classes that increases mana pool and intelligence. If the cap never existed i'd have well over 4k mana on a raid.</P> <P>It's best to focus on your HP.. because of this high hp = high mana  when using leach spells and manastone.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is an excellent point.</P> <P>I also use manastone and let me tell you it has been a lifesaver. So from everything I have read from all of you seasoned wizards.</P> <P>It is keeping a good balance of hp and power and int.</P> <P>I think as long as you have close to 2300hp or more and 2700 or more power you are good to go.</P> <P>Any comments from the peanut gallery. =)</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Haydn]

I have over 3k Power self buffed I believe almost every 50 wizard does. Again INT and WIS are the only stats a wizard should be concerned with at 50. Self buffed I have well over 200 INT and my WIS is close to 200 <div></div>

[Haydn]

Once you have reached the 200 INT soft cap you should start working on raising your WIS. Most 50 wizards are running around with about 100 WIS which I believe is because they do not understand the benefits of WIS. Here is just an example of the benefits of having two 12 WIS linen dolls over two 12 INT linen dolls. The 24 INT that you recieve from the dolls equates to around 50 Power and it will increase your magic damage. The 24 WIS will increase the ability of your spells to land and not be resisted by the enemy. If you are using the WIS dolls and lets just say you have one extra Ice Comet (adept 3) land because of the benefit of extra WIS that would ammount to 3000+ extra damage and 250 Power that wasn't wasted. With the INT dolls that Ice Comet would have been resisted wasting 250 Power as compared to the 50 Power you would gain having them and the extra magic damage would have to be over 3000+ damage divided amongst the spells that did land to justify using the INT dolls. That is just ONE extra spell landing with the benefit of the WIS dolls and I guarantee over the course of a 15-30 minute raid mob fight the WIS will help in landing alot more than one. <div></div>

[strate]

<P>You sure?</P> <P>As far as I know, there's no proof that the % to hit of spell is calculated based on WIS.</P> <P>IMHO, whether or not a spell connects successfully depend primarily on how well you debuffed it.</P>

[Jaxidi]

<DIV>I agree - I would love to see some proof that +WIS affects resist rates...</DIV>

[Haydn]

Maybe you have not read my previous post on this thread where I showed you the proof or maybe you do not believe proof in writing when you see it <div></div>

[Haydn]

For the blind, From the EQ2 Manual; • <font color="#ff0033" size="5"><b>Wisdom</b></font> is a measure of your character’s spiritual strength and willpower. It <b><font color="#ff3333" size="5">can affect your character’s ability to avoid magical attacks and his or her accuracy wielding magical attacks against opponents.</font></b> For Priest adventure archetypes and the Crusader profession, Wisdom also affects Power.<div></div>

[dan]

<P>Haydn, I understand that you follow strictly what the manual says. <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>Do you have any proof that the manual is right?</STRONG></FONT></P> <P>There are so many things that are new to the game, <STRONG>not stated in the handbook at all</STRONG> (e.g. house vault, offline selling, changed spells, changed HOs) and some things planned (e.g. different effect of stats like STR)</P> <DIV><STRONG>As long as you only refer to the manual as a source for what you state, I am sorry - I won't believe you</STRONG>. Not because I do not respect you but because I don't trust the manual, no matter on the font size you quote it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Following the manual is always right logic</STRONG>, it would take me 30 sec. to camp and exit to desktop. At least for me it is 20 sec.</DIV> <DIV>Another example would be HO...you have 30 sec to complete a HO.... have you?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And please read the message I just posted here a few days ago....</DIV> <DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>----- REPEATED FROM ABOVE -----</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Hey that's a response!</STRONG> Obviously there is always some emotion when writing. Same is true for myself, however I try to hold it back, <STRONG>not to start another flame thread</STRONG> <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, let me back up. I have read the manual. Who says the manual is right? Please also see another thread by myself adressing this issue.</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=43424#M43424" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=43424#M43424</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#c8c1b5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>As <STRONG>no hard information about dmg calculation, resists, etc. is available</STRONG> and hundrets of different opinions exist (as you can see in this thread), I tried to formulate something which is generally ture. As everything in this game is somehow calculated...there must somehow be an optimum or multiple equally good settings. As I am a level 32 wizard, I surely at this point have to what level 50 wizards say, if I want to talk about end-game, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never said I am right and I know everything. I might say something wrong. Well but that's why I opened the thread in the first place, to have an educated discussion and pool of information from everyone playing. There is no intention to find out who is the most clever, best educated, what so ever player. The goal is to find a strategy for myself and to derive some general guidelines for various playstyles (solo / group / endgame / etc.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well in general I am happy that you (Haydyn7<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> are throwing everything upside down now. That brings back live to this thread. I believe most of us have read the manual and were just not experiencing what was stated there...and would be interested if you have any proove besides the (outdated) manual (pls follow my link above) for your statements:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand from your message:</DIV> <DIV>(1) You are not a solo type player and focus on group play style</DIV> <DIV>(2) You say INT not only affect's power pool but also magic use (<FONT color=#ff0000>what is that supposed to be</FONT>) and magical damage (<FONT color=#ff0000>well a hell lot of people have parsed with INT equipped and without INT equipped / buffed -> they did not notice a different damage pattern</FONT>)</DIV> <DIV>(3) You say INT to POWER conversion is 1:5 pre 200 soft-cap (<FONT color=#ff0000>well I guess true for level 50, around level 30 it is 1:3</FONT>)</DIV> <DIV>(4) You say WIS does influence the ability to avoid magical attachs and increase accuaracy (lower resist rate) of doing magical attacks (<FONT color=#ff0000>do you have any proove for this</FONT>)</DIV> <DIV>(5) In you play style (group) your preference is somewhat like (1) INT (2) WIZ (3) STA (4) AGI (5) STR</DIV></DIV>

[MentalFoc]

<i> Mentalfocus I don't even know where to begin with you, you are just wrong. </i> Please let me know where I am wrong? Level 50 Wiz (200+). If there is a ring with no +INT but +50 power... and a ring with +10 INT and +20 power... a Mage should always go for the one <b>without</b> INT... and to me... as a fantasy roleplayer... it's just sounds stupid.<i> </i>

[Raminicus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Haydn78 wrote:<BR>Maybe you have not read my previous post on this thread where I showed you the proof or maybe you do not believe proof in writing when you see it<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The Manual is riddled with errors.  There have been so many changes even in the beginning of the game that the manual basically no longer applies.  As a matter of fact, the information in the manual wasn't accurate at launch or even in beta.  The game evolves so much that if it was once true (which in this case it wasn't, sorry) it may not still be true.</P> <P>As someone else said, if you're getting your information from the manual then you're misleading yourself and everybody who reads your post.  There's most likely a place in the manual where it says something to the effect of "descriptions contained within are subject to change without prior warning."</P>

[Stavenh]

Something to add to this. Go in game, bring up your Presona window. Hover over INT, it says, the more int, the more power a mage has (or close to that) Same with wis. Nothing about hitting harder, nothing about landing more. Now hover over STR and INT. It says do more melee damage, makes them more acturate and avoid damage better.There is your answer. The manuals, site and revised manuals? Wrong.If Int makes you hit harder, then I wouldn't be landing spells, after a debuff, that hit at the low end as often with a 190 int. The damage is ALL over. For as often as I hit at the high end, I hit just as often in the low end. If INT was making me hit harder, I would be hitting more in the high end then in the low end.

[Haydn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>When you say that the manual is outdated you cite reasons such as; house vault, attunable items, spells etc. These have all been officially noted as being changed. Have you ever seen a patch or any other official statement that has said that WIS and INT have been changed?  Then why do you refuse to believe what they have told us in clear print explaining what the properties of INT and WIS are? I could understand if the manual never said anything about WIS effecting the ability to have your spells land if it was pure speculation. But it is not, they have told us what it is for. If you chose not to believe that, then that is your perogative. I for one do believe what they have told us till there is proof that it has been changed, not vice vera. I stand by my advice that I have given in this thread and those of you that chose to follow my advice will be more efficient wizards. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Haydn78 on <span class=date_text>04-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[Raminicus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Haydn78 wrote:<BR> When you say that the manual is outdated you cite reasons such as; house vault, attunable items, spells etc. These have all been officially noted as being changed. The 5 main attributes have never been changed, have you ever seen a patch or any other official statement that has said they have been? No you have not, they have never been altered. Then why do you refuse to believe what they have told us in clear print explaining what the properties of each attribute are? I could understand if the manual never said anything about WIS effecting the ability to have your spells land if it was pure speculation. But it is not, they have told us in clear print that it does. If you chose not to believe that, then that is your perogative. I for one do believe what they have told us till there is proof that it has been changed, not vice vera. I stand by my advice that I have given in this thread and those of you that chose to follow my advice will be more efficient wizards.<BR> <BR> <P>Message Edited by Haydn78 on <SPAN class=date_text>04-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:36 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With such a naive attitude I can only assume this is your first MMO game.  They print those manuals in the pre-alpha phase of their coding/testing.  Things change drastically during alpha and beta.  Often times (as was clearly evident with SWG) they print what they think will be put in, but in the end their timetalbe doesn't allow them to include the feature.  They don't, however, revise their manuals.  Many many many players have tested the stats on their toons and tried to figure out whether INT affects our being able to hit harder.  Nobody has ever reported losing damage on their nukes when having equipment equalling 75 int versus equipping items taking their toon past the 200 int soft cap.  In fact, many people have said on forums, including this one, that their int stat doesn't change it at all.  It simply increases your power pool.  </P> <P>Oh, and the formula for finding out how much int equals how much power.  INT x (lvl/10) = power per int.  If you're level 50 you're getting 5 power per point of int.  If you're level 20 you're getting 2 power per int point.  Not sure if it was you or someone else who posted an incorrect assumption of int to power ratios.</P> <DIV>EDIT:: The int --> power ratio obviously changes once you reach the 200 power soft cap :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Raminicus on <span class=date_text>04-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:12 PM</span>

[Haydn]

<i>"Go in game, bring up your Presona window. Hover over INT, it says, the more int, the more power a mage has (or close to that) Same with wis. Nothing about hitting harder, nothing about landing more. Now hover over STR and INT. It says do more melee damage, makes them more acturate and avoid damage better. There is your answer. The manuals, site and revised manuals? Wrong." - Stavenham </i>If you look under STR it makes no mention of adding power to the fighter class which it in fact does, the same goes if you look at AGI it makes no mention of adding power to the scout class <i> </i><div></div>

[Raminicus]

<P>This isn't a situation like the quotes in your sig.  Nobody's saying, "Not one person stated that the attributes would affect your character's ability to hit harder or beresisted."  If we were saying that, then you would have every right to "throw the book" at us.  What we're saying is that the manual is incorrect according to current game mechanics.  There's plenty of precedence to look at if you want reasons to disregard the manual, much of which lies in SOE's past.</P> <P> </P>

[dan]

<P><FONT color=#cc33cc>Haydn78, </FONT>Point taken....and yes I can also follow your logic....in fact I hope are right.</P> <P>I still would love any parsing wizard to support this discussion and report the damage statistics (a) fully equipped / buffed (b) naked / unbuffed<BR>I would do it myself, but unfortunately Í have not seen any parser for the localized versions of the game.</P> <P>Anyway...nice discussion...let's bring in some hard facts... (I will do the example above and have a look at max dmg...as I have to do it manually)</P> <P> </P>

[Tabemo]

From my experience, I have noticed that INT has very little or nothing to do with the amount of damage your spells do.  I've done naked Behemoth runs, and my damage is relatively the same save for the fact that I run out of power a lot faster.  I just experiemented with Overlord Oxulius as well.  I tested with Ball of Fire and Ball of Flames (which are one of the few spells that actually work on the Overlord), and my damage was pretty consistent as I unequipped my int gear.  My Ball of fire stayed around 280, and my Ball of Flames was consistantly 440 give or take +- 10 damage for both.  So basically int is only a power booster atm, and your disruption/elemental mastery skill and spell rank determines the damage you do with them. <div></div>

[spyderopt]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><font size="2">"From my experience, I have noticed that INT has very little or nothing to do with the amount of damage your spells do" Yeah, this is absolutely silly. I can nuke just as hard with full raid gear as running around in no gear, the only difference being power pool. Sure doesnt sound all that exciting when it comes to winning any sort of high INT gear when the 200 cap came long ago and you'll be lucky to even notice much difference even if it's a superior upgraded item. What's fair is fair, INT/WIS need to be looked into.. and not getting -any- sort of response in regards to those two stats is just ludacris. It's a reasonable request for a reply. </font><p>Message Edited by spyderoptik on <span class=date_text>04-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:39 PM</span>

[Tabemo]

preach it my brothah <div></div>

[Admh]

<P>Don't believe what the manual says. You see guards with well over 13khp and only having less than 300stamina. Whereas I can pump over 320int easily, and I can barely break 3.2k mana. Intelligence is worthwile until you hit the 200 mark. Beyond that, focus on Power, Stamina/hp, Agility, Wisdom.</P> <P>Power for more mana,  Stamina/HP for more health, Agility for more ac and dodging skills and Wisdom/strength.. it doesn't matter anymore once u get here.  The game needs a certain cap number like in eq1. @ lvl 65 with all the AA skills I believe you can hit 410stats to all (sorry, this was the time I quit the game never got to the lvl 70 part):smileysad:</P> <P> Anyway, the game has no cap limits.. the devs also do not inform us with any of these numbers if they're significant or not. So right now, just focus on RAW numbers which is your power pool. I don't know anymore how much power I get per int.  Just grab as much Power while u can.:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Zcenicx]

<P>/shrug</P> <P>It's not true that you should completely ignore INT after hitting the soft cap at 200 though, I can say for certain that you still get power for getting more - otherwise casting Descry and Flash of Intelligence on myself shouldnt increase my power pool and they do.</P> <P>It's no longer 5-6 power per int though, more like 2-3.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for preferring AGI, STR and STA - what are you guys, wannabe rangers? :smileytongue:</P> <P>AGI doesnt increase dodge even close to what it has, in fact the defense skill matters more and so does avoidance.</P> <P>STR does absolutely nothing since you should never, ever engage in melee combat. Ever heard of ripostes?</P> <P>STA... hitpoints... well... we're dead in 2 hits no matter how many we have. Remember, we're dressed in cleenex, not ebon. </P> <p>Message Edited by Zcenicx on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:48 PM</span>