Death of a Wizard

[ImPiss]

<DIV>I played the EQ1 wizard from the day EQ1 went live until about a month after the release of PoP. To make a long story short, I wasn't about to play a wizard in EQ2 for fear of repeating the EQ1 experience all over again. I had enough of the long LFGs. The brief high of finding an encounter where wizards were actually useful only to be quickly followed up with the low when that encounter would get nerfed sending Wizards back to the end of the LFG line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No no. I had enough with the EQ1 wizard. Enough to the point that I didn't even consider making a Wizard in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then the other night I found myself in one of the very VERY rare pickup groups where everyone really had their acts together. We ended up doing two instanced zones: The Witches Coven and the instanced zone in TS. Our group had two wizards, both at L28.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have to say, I was stunned by how fast mobs were dropping. We're talking white, yellow orange and even red con mobs and groups of mobs. It really grabbed my atttention. Because other than the wizards there was me (a gaurdian) and a Templar and one ranger. So it had to be the wizards that were doing that serious and fast damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At heart, I'm a wizard through and through. But I really wasn't going to chance my little play time on playing a wizard to the highest levels in a game by Sony where my prior experience (EQ1) was so horrible with the wizard class. But now I am wrestling with it again because of what I saw in my aformentioned experience with the two wizards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've spent about an hour now reading through the wizard forum here and I can't really get a good 'feel' about how people feel about the wizard class. It almost seems evenly split. Half the posts complaining about the class with half the posts claiming the wizard class is good. That is already better than the EQ1 wizard boards but I have to ask you all in this specific post, yay or nay on the wizard class? Should I make a wizard? Is the EQ2 wizard worth the time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love the idea of being a wizard. However I really hated my EQ1 wizard experience. What do you guys think? Yay or nay? Any input would be helpful thanks!</DIV>

[Articulas]

it really depends on your play style. to me the Wizard is one of the best classes in the game atm. in the beginning it had some issues but those have been addressed. And a playing a wizard in EQ2 is so vastly different from playing one in EQLive.  its just alot more amicable to us players i believe.

[Stavenh]

Yay on wizards for me. My main group, Paladin, Templar and me, Wizard, lev el 39, 37 and 39. We rock, we have strategies, we work. We all know I'm the DPS of the group. My guild knows wizards are DPS, and we activly recruit wizards. My guild leader likes 3 person groups, and always wants a wizard with her. There might be issues with some spells, but no issue has been so great as to stop me from fulling my roll post wizard patch. Thus, I feel real useful.

[Articulas]

shakes head and /smacks stavenham- there we just can't have you feeling useful around here now can we? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Asterra]

<div></div>I will tell you two truths that you can mull over.  First, Wizards very definitely fulfill the role, at least in the general perception of players, of "DPS", and if a group needs DPS, they will accept a Wizard in that role.  In this regard, SOE is doing a much, much better job than they did with EQ1.  Since the time when Mages received much-needed upgrades, I have been pleased on more than one occasion to find I could get a group primarily on the basis of my ability to provide damage, rather than based on who I was friends with.  This differs so dramatically with my experiences in EQ1 that it bears mentioning. The second truth is a grim one.  Warlocks provide much, much more DPS to a group looking for exp, and this is a fact that is so undeniable that it is unavoidably becoming part of the general perception of Mage DPS.  Meaning that the difference between a Warlock and a Wizard looking for a group is much like the difference between two applicants for a job, only one of whom graduated from high school and college.  All else being equal, which one is a group more likely to pick?  The one who is known to be better at their job, of course. I personally believe that the issue of Warlock damage superiority, as well as other issues of even further DPS superiority from tank classes, as well as other items for consideration (such as the fact that prismatic weapons are godsends for melee classes but nerfed to near worthlessness for casters), all stem from deliberate favoritism on the part of developers who probably play the classes who are currently enjoying disproportionate empowerment.  It is difficult to otherwise explain why SOE seems content to drag their heels in fixing such glaring flaws.  Anyway, for the forseeable future, I would recommend choosing Warlock over Wizard.  I, too, am a Wizard at heart, but I would trade my adherence to that persona for the staggering advantages enjoyed by Warlocks in a heartbeat, given the opportunity. <p>Message Edited by Asterra on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:37 AM</span>

[EvilAmi]

<DIV>Are you insane? EQ1 wizard was fun.. granted you couldnt find groups but that's what guilds were for. Wizards could quad and gain insane xp starting from when they get their first pillar spell. I made it to 65 in under a month quad'ing with my wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The endgame was what it was all about, all the guilds wanted the few wizards that actually stuck through. Then with some AA's it was crit crit crit! I just loved seeing that message.</DIV>

[Articulas]

<DIV>I wouldn't trade my wizard for 2 reasons. 1. i think its going to be looked at and adjusted for better or for worse, and 2. its style of play. are you keen to fire , ice, and electricity.  or plauges and diesies. even tho both can be taken by good or evil i personally don't like the thought of playing with poisins. even if they did more damage. A wizard will do his/her job reguardless of a warlock hitting for more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nacoa]

Here's some of what I've read about the issues surrounding wizards: -Warlocks do more damage So what?  So Wizard is the #2 DPS instead of #1....BFD.  Besides, I'm much more interested in tossing fireballs at something than poisioning it.  However, if you're a munchkin, you'll want to go warlock. -Mana Battery Since Wizards have a decent ability to transfer power to other players, they tend to only be used as mana batteries in raids.  This can be considered a 'good thing' in that you get invited for raids.  It can also be a 'bad thing', because you're not tossing fireballs anymore. -Soloing This is the one that's really goten to me.  I took a break from my wizard in the 20s, because soloing was difficult and the guild I was in disolved making it hard to get a decent xp group.  So now I'm playing with dual-boxing a healer and tank.  Soloing can be done by fighting root-nuke-root-nuke until you get a decent root in the 40s, but if that mob reaches you, you're toast. <div></div>

[ImPiss]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Asterra wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>"Warlocks provide much, much more DPS to a group looking for exp, and this is a fact that is so undeniable that it is unavoidably becoming part of the general perception of Mage DPS.  Meaning that the difference between a Warlock and a Wizard looking for a group is much like the difference between two applicants for a job, only one of whom graduated from high school and college.  All else being equal, which one is a group more likely to pick?  The one who is known to be better at their job, of course."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that you cannot foresee what Sony will eventually do. But what is your gut feeling with this situation? Do you think Wizards will eventually be brought up to the same dps output of warlocks or do you think warlocks will be scaled back to the dps of wizards? Or do you think the disparity will continue?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, how responsive has Sony been with fixing Wizard class problems to this point?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One last question, are there any other utility type offerings by the wizard class that make them desirable to groups besides just pure dps? Or is it pretty much just all about dps?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry for all the questions, but I have just completley ignored this class up to this point so I'm pretty ignorant.<BR></DIV>

[ImPiss]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>EvilAmigo wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Are you insane?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>EvilAmigo wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>"... granted you couldnt find groups but that's what guilds were for."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem was being unable to find a pickup group quickly. I understand that guilds could have helped with this but I didn't have the time to do a whole lot of guild activities. So for me, it was about quickly finding a pickup group and playing. Being pleasant, playing my class competently, and making friends all helped a little bit, but the higher level I got the harder it seemed to find pickup groups quickly... before my playtime expired.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>EvilAmigo wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>"Wizards could quad and gain insane xp starting from when they get their first pillar spell. I made it to 65 in under a month quad'ing with my wizard."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quad-kiting was fun and I did it for a while. But back when I played EQ1 I had enough time to play in groups and that's really how I prefered to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EvilAmigo wrote:</DIV> <DIV>The endgame was what it was all about, all the guilds wanted the few wizards that actually stuck through. Then with some AA's it was crit crit crit! I just loved seeing that message.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And this is why the EQ1 wizard was probably a bad choice for me. I'm a causal player, but not by choice... I simply just don't have a whole lot of time to play. But who would have known that's the way things would have landed with the wizard class... that it would be a great end-game toon... If I had known that when I started playing EQ1 when it first came out, I could have chosen a different class more suitable to my available play time. But who could have known at the beginning?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's why I'm aasking for input now. So I'm better prepared for what to expect should I choose to play a wizard. At least this time around, I know some of the questions I should be asking up front.</DIV></DIV>

[Juice]

<P>I am currently a level 29 Wizard and have found that the community is just starting to learn how good Wizards can be that know how to play them.  </P> <P>Let me tell you a little about myself, never played any other EQ before this one so did not know about the sterotype that came with wizards from previous games.  First toon was a scout, got to level 11 and found it wasn't for me (probably didn't give it enough time) then I created a Fighter that I later took to Paladin (lvl 23).  We had a huge amount of tanks in our guild and only one other caster besides healers at the time a Illusionist so I was trying to fill a roll that we were lacking in.  I quickly found out how great the class truly is.</P> <P>At first it was a bit tricky and can still be at times when I am in a pick-up group.  I have found that my guildmates are sending me tells left and right wanting me in their groups for the DPS which is always a nice feeling.   The biggest challenge for a wizard is to know when to nuke and when to sit back.  Some tanks (I was one and understand how they play at least through level 23) think they need to be DPS and don't taunt enough and that causes problems even when throwing one fireball for 500 damage.  I will then send the tank a nice tell saying hey can you taunt more please.  I never attack until the battle is underway and agro is under control but sometimes the tank will only use a opening taunt and forget about it, well when that first nuke arrives you will be surrounded by 3-5 or more mobs at once.  This is where your true skill shines, you can either try and nukem all till they die or sit there taking the beating till they can pull them off you. I am getting off track sorry <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Key to the profession is know how to play it.  I have been in groups where the tank can't say enough about how nice it is to not having to be chasing mobs all over to get them off me.  So in short I love the profession and would not trade it in for another at this point.</P> <P>I have been able to solo the singles in Nek and some in EL for the last 2 levels that con yellow,orange and red but yes you can die real easy also if your not careful.  I have ran for my life more times then I care to admit and have had streaks where opening nuke resists then Freeze resist and root resits and then your hit for 300+ damage and stunned and praying that you can get away before you are killed, so it adds a nice excitement to the game.  I can if lucky take out a ^^Green but try to avoid them since it is to much of a crap shoot.  You can take out 3-4 greens at once also if you have some luck and good gear.  Most of the time 2-3 nukes each will take them down and with good gear you will finish in the orange in health and a bubble to 2 of power left, with good food and drink downtime can be shortened but you will have some that just comes with the high power usage and challenging mobs.  If you do singles you can convert health to power and regen faster now that I have 2 spells to get power back things are going faster.  </P> <P>Sorry for the long post but I think any profession in this game is what you make of it.</P> <P>The most important thing to remember is it must be fun!!!!</P> <P>Juice</P> <P> Let the Fire and Ice Fly!!!!!!!</P>

[ImPiss]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Juice35 wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>"The most important thing to remember is it must be fun!!!!"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the insight into how the EQ2 wizard plays. In many respects, it sounds very much like the EQ1 wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like what you wrote. All that's really left is to get a feel for how much people want wizards in groups. In EQ1 wizards were pretty much last to be picked for a group because other classes were just more useful... kinda like that poor SOB who's last to be picked for a team.</DIV>

[Articulas]

the only way your going to know if you like it or not is if you play it. we cant' tell you what you will and what you won't enjoy. its just impossible. the isle is a great place to get the basics down on what you might enjoy, and then you can go from their on what part of a mage, fighter, priest, scout you like best and then you can choose your class and subclass at 20 based on that.

[Juice]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ImPissed wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Juice35 wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>"The most important thing to remember is it must be fun!!!!"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the insight into how the EQ2 wizard plays. In many respects, it sounds very much like the EQ1 wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like what you wrote. All that's really left is to get a feel for how much people want wizards in groups. In EQ1 wizards were pretty much last to be picked for a group because other classes were just more useful... kinda like that poor SOB who's last to be picked for a team.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have never really had a problem finding a group.  We have a smaller guild but when I can't group with them it generally only takes a couple LFG messages to snag one.  I think it has alot to do with the times you play and the areas you are in and the server you are on and how populated it is.  I see the biggest problem during the day or late at night.  Some of the grouping issues stem from the quest system I think, everyone wants to do their quest but no one wants to do someone elses.  Another funny thing is since I started forming groups myself (would put the LFG tag up, no respose look to see who is LFG and there would be 10-15 people LFG) I guess no one likes to be responsible for forming the group or they only want friends in a group.  Just yesterday we had a group of 5 it was interesting since their wasn't a healer to be found we decided to see what we could do, Ranger, Necro, Wizard, Wizard, Monk, lets say it was a little caotic but it got the job done, we just took turns pulling agro so no one would take all the beatings, it was fun but crazy and the group wasn't together long since the risks were high.  In short to find a group I haven't had much trouble and if I can't find one at odd hours I just solo till I find one, some XP is better than sitting there wasting time.  If you have any other questions please let us know.  The class may not be perfect but none of the others are either, just have to adjust to the hand that your dealt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Juice</DIV>

[Geldin]

<P></P> <HR> <P>Asterra Wrote</P> <P>The second truth is a grim one.  Warlocks provide much, much more DPS to a group looking for exp, and this is a fact that is so undeniable that it is unavoidably becoming part of the general perception of Mage DPS.  Meaning that the difference between a Warlock and a Wizard looking for a group is much like the difference between two applicants for a job, only one of whom graduated from high school and college.  All else being equal, which one is a group more likely to pick?  The one who is known to be better at their job, of course.<BR></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>I will guarentee you one thing. I WILL out dmg a warlock. They cannot do the amount of dmg that I can do at my level. While they probably could do more damage than me they cannot now. I can do 5500 dmg in 10 seconds with two spells both at adept 3. </P> <P>I really like playing a wizard and am very glad that I chose to do this class. While I do pump mana at times on raids I do not always. If the tank and healers have crack going they regen nicely. If I were to do it again I would make a wizard.</P>

[ImPiss]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Articulas wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>"the only way your going to know if you like it or not is if you play it. we cant' tell you what you will and what you won't enjoy."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never asked anyone to tell me what I will or will not enjoy. I took care, specifically, to word my post in a way to prevent your very response.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All I asked for was for people to comment about their own playing experience with the EQ2 wizard relative to some of the questions I asked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm perfectly aware that nobody can tell me what I will or will not enjoy. But asking some questions I feel are relevent to me can't possibly hurt anything. In the end, I will still make my own choice whether or not to invest time in playing a wizard.</DIV>

[Raminicus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Geldin wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> <P>Asterra Wrote</P> <P>The second truth is a grim one.  Warlocks provide much, much more DPS to a group looking for exp, and this is a fact that is so undeniable that it is unavoidably becoming part of the general perception of Mage DPS.  Meaning that the difference between a Warlock and a Wizard looking for a group is much like the difference between two applicants for a job, only one of whom graduated from high school and college.  All else being equal, which one is a group more likely to pick?  The one who is known to be better at their job, of course.<BR></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>I will guarentee you one thing. I WILL out dmg a warlock. They cannot do the amount of dmg that I can do at my level. While they probably could do more damage than me they cannot now. I can do 5500 dmg in 10 seconds with two spells both at adept 3. </P> <P>I really like playing a wizard and am very glad that I chose to do this class. While I do pump mana at times on raids I do not always. If the tank and healers have crack going they regen nicely. If I were to do it again I would make a wizard.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm a Warlock browsing around in the Wizard forums.</P> <P>There are many threads about a damage disparity between the two Sorcerer classes.  Now, before I type anything else let me say that I believe DPS should be roughly equal with Wizards and Warlocks, but that DPS should be accomplished in different ways.  One class more DD, the other AOE, or DoTs or whatnot.  Damage type isn't the only thing that should distinguish the two classes.</P> <P>At the beginning of the game both of the Sorcerer subclasses had major problems, but the Wizard had major advantages over the Warlock, and as a Warlock it was insanely hard to find a group back then.  It's much easier to find a group now because people have accepted Warlocks as being decent to very good DPS.</P> <P>I've noticed since the large patch where both classes got major loving that whenever in a group with a comparably leveled Wizard, I'd outdamage him/her.  This was the case for a long time, and so I know firsthand, though from the other side of the fence, what the Wizard Community is upset about.</P> <P>However, Last Night I was grouped with a Wizard 1 level below me.  She was absolutely destroying me DPS-wise.  All of my skills are adept 1, with Noxious Bolt at App4 because I can't find an upgrade for it.  I have GREAT gear and very high int/power pool for my level.  Heck, I have a higher int stat than many 36+ Wiz/Warlocks and I'm only level 33.  But this girl was simply annihilating me DPS-wise.  And she said, although there's no way for me to be certain, that she didn't have any adept 3 spells (nor do I btw).</P> <P>She confided in me that she simply knows exactly how to play her class at her level.  I know how to play the Warlock at level 33, but after grouping with a Wizard who actually knew what she was doing, I no longer believe the disparity is in stats alone.</P> <P>So, long story short, if you enjoy the THOUGHT of being a Wizard, you should probably make one and see how you do, how you enjoy it.  There's not much of anything holding you back from creating one and getting groups/exp/whatever.</P> <P> </P>

[Articulas]

<DIV>and your going to run into the same problem a bunch of people leaning both ways on the subject, which is all over the first page of the wizard forum i might add, which will in turn lead you probably back to square 1 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . but i can say this, if our biggest problem is with the warlock class being able to outnuke us, a wizard must be a fine class to play indeed. and they are.</DIV>

[Andalla]

I played a tank type (SK) in EQ and eventually got tired of everyone always looking to me for direction.  I chose to play a wizzy because, by definition of the class, your an add-on.  I personaly have never once regretted my decision.  No one expects any decision making from you, you just get to be there and kill stuff.  As a wizard you have some utility (i know, its not alot, but it can be useful) and I have had many a group dumbfounded at the stuff I can pull off.  Playing a wizard is great fun, but a word of advice...make an alt.  There will be days where the norm becomes boring.  Instead of getting frustrated, spend some time on an alt.  I chose a guardian, and it really makes me appreciate the damage we dish out.  Above all, remember its a game, if your not having fun, try something else.  No point in spending money every month to be irritated (or worse). <div></div>

[adamflanagan]

<span><blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:<div> i can say this, if our biggest problem is with the warlock class being able to outnuke us, a wizard must be a fine class to play indeed. and they are.</div><hr></blockquote>i completely agree with you. the original sorcerer DPS issue was resolved and im sure wizards and warlocks will be balanced. i love playing a wizard and even if warlocks have a higher DPS im not that bothered. we get a few useful utility spells whick the warlock doesnt have. eg. mana feed spells, evac.</span><div></div>

[Asterra]

When I talked about Wizard / Warlock disparity, I specifically had the endgame in mind.  This is, after all, where people are going to be spending the majority of their playtime.  At least I find it reasonable to assume this to be the case when level increases are going to be doled out on no better than a six month basis.  No magical playstyle superiority is going to be responsible for closing the gap between the two classes, and it is unreasonable to suggest that it might; the effort here is to discuss idealized scenarios, which incidentally I feel confident that most people can achieve in any event. To answer an earlier question: Yes, DPS is very definitely the point of a Wizard / Warlock.  I always find it amusing when people discuss the worthlessness of spells like Boreal.  Of course such spells are worthless; they are not the point of the class.  Manadumps carry severe penalties like long cast times and outright incapacitating stuns.  These drawbacks are surely meant to make a loud statement about a Wizard's true role.  Although I would DEFINITELY suggest that SOE made a huge mistake forcing such a conceivably useful line of spells onto a DPS class that did not want and does not need it.  Far better to saddle the likes of Enchanters with such emergency spells.  But now that the damage is done, those very spells may be used as an excuse to keep Wizards hamstrung in the DPS department vs. their poison / disease counterparts. Finally... Yes, it's possible, even probable, that SOE will eventually wake up and realize there are Wizards flooding their forums with outraged posts, and perhaps they will even do something startling like fix things.  Meanwhile, the golden age of EQ2 is being wasted by a prolonged period of imbalance.  I say "golden age" because Vanguard is not so far down the road anymore, and it finally looks better and has no zones.  I really have little doubt about where my attention will shift once such an option becomes available.  I even dare to suspect that the developers of Vanguard will take SOE's traditional mistreatment of the Wizard class into account, and take extra care to make certain it doesn't happen in their game.

[Asterra]

Before I go.  Above, it is suggested that merely being out-DPSed by our counterparts is a trivial complaint, insufficient to detract from the greatness of the Wizard class as a whole.  Again I stress the fact that DPS is THE point of the class - unless you'd like to honestly tell me you do not advertise nor respond to groups seeking "DPS" due to your conviction that the Wizard class is "too versatile" to be categorized so blandly.  So with this FACT very well established, it really is an unavoidable conclusion that "merely" being out-DPSed by Warlocks is not merely a far greater concern than the above poster attempted to imply, but in fact the overriding concern.  Nobody is fooled: Warlocks really do achieve higher DPS.  And let me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] this one in the bud before somebody feels compelled AGAIN to suggest that it's a tradeoff because Wizards are the "masters of direct damage".  Rubbish.  Attend five+ level 50 raids every day, with Wizards and Warlocks and people parsing, and tell me - heck, tell yourself, without lying - that Wizards are the masters of any kind of damage you'd care to qualify.

[Madil]

Personally I just love playing a wizard because it's a lot of fun! I also find that it's not that difficult to find a group. But mainly, I just like to land those fireballs on the helpless mobs! :smileyvery-happy: Great for soloing/duo as well which I do a lot of.

[Alfgand]

<DIV> <DIV>I too suffered many a time in various EQ1 zones LFG while other classes were snapped up right and left while I and other wizards were left drawing figures in the sand with our staves. Well at least we could solo. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ2, as many have said there is an unfortunate disparity between Warlock and Wizard DPS at the moment. Those who deny it or brag of their superority are deluded or pehaps the exception to the rule. Probably the former. There is a clear disparity. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As some else said BFD. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, sorry it IS a BFD. Wizards and Warlocks give up armor, fighting  pets and mental trickery to have the best DPS in the game. No other classes other than Wizards and Warlocks, stand in front of creatures with viscous claws, fangs and talons in a bathrobe with <U>only the BRUTE force of their magical damage to protect themselves</U>.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards and Warlocks, at all levels, should be as equal as possible in DPS over time averaged over a number of battles. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the person who said they leveled their wizard to 65 in one month, I say Bah.  Yes, Bah.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have no knowledge of the history and struggles of a Wizard though EQ 1. You picked a Wizard only when they became the flavor of the month, when Wizards FINALLY came into there own with crits and people actually sent them tells to join a group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those who had EQ1 wizards who had to stare at the book while medding and were killed by one slash of an Oasis Spectre trained by some fool, I salute you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I salute those who stuck by the class through the lean hard times when only a friend or guildie would invite you to group. Those were and are the true EQ wizards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play a Wizard not because it is easy, nor the most powerful, easy to solo or any other reason that WILL change as SoE trys to balance things out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I have said before, play a Wizard because you have an affinity for the class, you like the big nuke, like the challenge of playing a class where soloing is a risk, never knowing if and when the root is going to break. Play it even though you know you are wearing bathrobe and all that stands between you and death is your magical brute force nukes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as EQ2 goes, I am happy so far with my Wizard. It is much, much easier to get a group than it was in EQ1. Can you solo? I have had no problems, it is challenge and risky at times but it makes you a better player.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are underdogs at the moment in terms of DPS when compared to our brother Sorcerers the Warlocks but I am sure in time it will be fixed and hopefully without nerfing them. Nerfing them is really a setback for both classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards should complain and post about this dispairity and Warlocks should support us. We are not whining or calling for the nerfing of Warlocks. We are asking for equality. Wizards and Warlocks of equal level, gear and spell quality, should be equal in DPS when averaged over a number of battles. I think the manner of spells to get there should be different but results should be the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We should NOT post "Goodbye Wizard class", "Is it worth playing a Wizard anymore", "Why I am canceling my account", "DEVS Pay attention or else". Those posts in an attempt to get Sonys attention do the exact opposite. They also get the deserved response, "Can I have your stuff?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Am I going to "reroll" my Wizard. Nope, no way in hell !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sage Alfgand Stormraven, 66 Wizard EQ1</DIV> <DIV>Alfgand Stormraven, 34 Wizard EQ2</DIV> <DIV>100 levels of EQ Wizardry</DIV></DIV>

[Juice]

<P>One last thing to consider in your choice is the cost of the spells.  I am not sure about other classes and upgrading them but I have not seen one Adept 3 spell on my server for less than 30g and I have only seen a couple to begin with that I can use.  Neither one that I saw were spells that would be usable for the long hall so my money would have been waisted.  My guild is young mostly in the 20's and a couple just hitting lvl 30.  We have looted one master combat art and none of us could use it and we found that it was not all that valuable.  So unless you or a very nice friend or plan on crafting to the level to upgrade those spells plan on using the standard Adept drops until you get lucky or get a nice deal.  I am not a fan of crafting so I am currently saving every penny and harvesting like crazy in hopes that I get those rares needed to give to the one crafter we have in the guild going that route so that I can get those spell upgrades.  Just more food for thought and like I said this case may change as our guild levels up and we get to see more of the high end content and I am not sure if the adept 3 and master spells/combat arts are as important to the melee classes as I only have a level 23 paladin to go by and so far upgrading his combat arts from app 4 to Adept 1 didn't show alot of DPS change.</P> <P>Juice</P>

[Alfred75]

The problem is this: Many noobs want to play a major dps class and they read that wizards are major dps for any group, so they started a wizard. These noobs do not understand the class well but what the heck wizards are doing much more damage than warlocks. Then SOE patched warlocks to put them on parity with wizards. These noobs suddenly found themselves performing poorly against their counterparts, and the whining started. Meanwhile, the non-noob wizards are still happily playing their class, knowing very well that they can out-damage a warlock anytime, and on average remain around the dps range of a warlock. Thats the reason why I like to play a gimped class - lesser noobs on the class boards. Since warlocks have been fixed, I am worried there will be many noobs jumping onto the bandwagon.... sigh .... <div></div>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Wizards can not solo as well as other classes. HP are low and spells such as roots are not effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, to serve as a mana battery in a raid as a wizard is boring and not interesting although it is useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks have better DPS and can solo very well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are a hardcore player (no-lifer) you can have fun with wizard-- if you are a casual gamer (2-3 hours 3-5 days a week) play a warlock.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard spells are not that much fun....frostbound gift (our other decent duff with intensify) for instance can not be kept refreshed all the time now -you have a 170 seconds of not being able to cast it after is gone and the duration is only 10 min.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That extra amount of hp is the difference between life or death-- but DEVS don't consider that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mana to power spells not very good.    Painful Med>Discretionary Flow>Vital Flow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not understand why they would give an upgrade so quickly after Discretionary Flow and both are on same timer ( whatever). Essence Harvest -- stun now lasts longer time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless you have good equipment you are a leaf in the wind. You will go down in 2-4 hits against a yellow-white mob in a group if you get aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have heat stroke- cast time long as hell --LOL only does 50dmg per tick and is supposed to stifle. By the time I finish casting this the mob has cast 3 DD spells on me..LOL [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] spell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ring of Frost: take forever to cast as well--and if I even think about casting it against a mob they can get 3 hits or even interrupt me and I am dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pyre: long as hell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plasmatic Pulse: I have never seen it do DOT and it hits at 125 I have adept 1 too....lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frozen Manacles/Ball of Flames: really the only decent spells we cast in regards to cast time/damage/effectiveness/recast time and mana cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Westend Ice Spear: A little longer than it should be-------In my opinion DD spells should be quick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ball of Fire: takes longer than it should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Boreal: No comment--On how ridiculous this spells is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Depart: unless you have adept--I don not recommend you use unless for self only. Without adept you will leave people behind and die. LOL......evac is more effective. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conflgaration: AE heat spell---long cast and ridiculous damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ice Spike: ok for filler or inbetween re-cast times of stronger spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Intromossion: really does not help healer or tank much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Surge of Fire: not much power transfer and you are stunned  as well.....so you are out of the fight for a good 40 sec because you know that in a toss up between you giving your power to a healer for a tank versus using it to DD----You hacve a better chance of surviving by giving power to healer..LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The wizard class is awful----I only continue to play because it is just such a shame that after so much time gettibng this character to 41 to delete it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So many hours to get a character to 41 and just come up with the final conclusion that the class sucks like so many other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stavenh]

For me and my friends, it's simple. There is no way they could take down many of the mobs they do with out me around.Sure, my paladin friend can survive many hits, however, it takes him forever to kill anything. Just the other day he was in Varsoon when I logged on, clearing out quests. I went as I had some I wanted to clear too. I get there, get invite, find him, nuke the mob he is fighting, half it's health gone. He sighs, saying I spend all my time hitting the dam think to only do one bubble of damage, and you come up and bang, half it's life is gone in one nuke.Just about all our spells are usefull, save a few that are out of line. Even Boreal can be useful, if used right. Power Transfers? Very useful, I can restore 290 power back to a tank or healer at level 39. Thats more then Manastone restores. And as my healer friend says, thats about half the cost of his best heal. So, I can give two heals back to a healer. Considering I can then restore even more mana to myself after a transfer, not bad I think.If you game plan is to pile on DPS that only works so long as the tank can withstand whats being dished out. We offer little in the way of physical damage mitigation. Get with people that have good gear, know what they are doing, and you will be fine.

[Kilferf 'U]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>For me and my friends, it's simple. There is no way they could take down many of the mobs they do with out me around.<BR><BR>Sure, my paladin friend can survive many hits, however, it takes him forever to kill anything. Just the other day he was in Varsoon when I logged on, clearing out quests. I went as I had some I wanted to clear too. I get there, get invite, find him, nuke the mob he is fighting, half it's health gone. He sighs, saying I spend all my time hitting the dam think to only do one bubble of damage, and you come up and bang, half it's life is gone in one nuke.<BR><BR>Just about all our spells are usefull, save a few that are out of line. Even Boreal can be useful, if used right. Power Transfers? Very useful, I can restore 290 power back to a tank or healer at level 39. Thats more then Manastone restores. And as my healer friend says, thats about half the cost of his best heal. So, I can give two heals back to a healer. Considering I can then restore even more mana to myself after a transfer, not bad I think.<BR><BR>If you game plan is to pile on DPS that only works so long as the tank can withstand whats being dished out. We offer little in the way of physical damage mitigation. Get with people that have good gear, know what they are doing, and you will be fine.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ding! Ding! Ding!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How'd you get one starred for that?! Oh i know...you described various ways to be useful other than nuking...and someone didn't like that. lol...</DIV>

[Kilferf 'U]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lady Uaelrea wrote:<BR> <DIV>Wizards can not solo as well as other classes. HP are low and spells such as roots are not effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, to serve as a mana battery in a raid as a wizard is boring and not interesting although it is useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warlocks have better DPS and can solo very well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are a hardcore player (no-lifer) you can have fun with wizard-- if you are a casual gamer (2-3 hours 3-5 days a week) play a warlock.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizard spells are not that much fun....frostbound gift (our other decent duff with intensify) for instance can not be kept refreshed all the time now -you have a 170 seconds of not being able to cast it after is gone and the duration is only 10 min.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That extra amount of hp is the difference between life or death-- but DEVS don't consider that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mana to power spells not very good.    Painful Med>Discretionary Flow>Vital Flow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not understand why they would give an upgrade so quickly after Discretionary Flow and both are on same timer ( whatever). Essence Harvest -- stun now lasts longer time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless you have good equipment you are a leaf in the wind. You will go down in 2-4 hits against a yellow-white mob in a group if you get aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have heat stroke- cast time long as hell --LOL only does 50dmg per tick and is supposed to stifle. By the time I finish casting this the mob has cast 3 DD spells on me..LOL [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] spell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ring of Frost: take forever to cast as well--and if I even think about casting it against a mob they can get 3 hits or even interrupt me and I am dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pyre: long as hell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plasmatic Pulse: I have never seen it do DOT and it hits at 125 I have adept 1 too....lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frozen Manacles/Ball of Flames: really the only decent spells we cast in regards to cast time/damage/effectiveness/recast time and mana cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Westend Ice Spear: A little longer than it should be-------In my opinion DD spells should be quick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ball of Fire: takes longer than it should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Boreal: No comment--On how ridiculous this spells is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Depart: unless you have adept--I don not recommend you use unless for self only. Without adept you will leave people behind and die. LOL......evac is more effective. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conflgaration: AE heat spell---long cast and ridiculous damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ice Spike: ok for filler or inbetween re-cast times of stronger spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Intromossion: really does not help healer or tank much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Surge of Fire: not much power transfer and you are stunned  as well.....so you are out of the fight for a good 40 sec because you know that in a toss up between you giving your power to a healer for a tank versus using it to DD----You hacve a better chance of surviving by giving power to healer..LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The wizard class is awful----I only continue to play because it is just such a shame that after so much time gettibng this character to 41 to delete it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So many hours to get a character to 41 and just come up with the final conclusion that the class sucks like so many other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow, you really are mislead. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>The problem lies mostly in your playstyle. To be blunt - YOU are [Removed for Content], not the wizard. </P> <P> </P> <P>feel free to pass this on to the others aswell....this forum is too funny. I couldn't imagine playing a wizard if i believed HALF of the things you guys whine about, seriously. If you want to learn that's one thing, if you want to complain and hope someone will make this class easier for you, you get no sympathy from me. If i wanted EASY i'd go play something else. </P> <P> </P> <P>/troll</P>

[Kilferf 'U]

<DIV>One star me all ya like, doesn't change the fact people. Figure it out, i'm running out of tissues.</DIV>

[Treve]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ImPissed wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that you cannot foresee what Sony will eventually do. But what is your gut feeling with this situation? Do you think Wizards will eventually be brought up to the same dps output of warlocks or do you think warlocks will be scaled back to the dps of wizards? Or do you think the disparity will continue?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Somewhere (and recently), SOE has stated that they are committed to making and keeping wizards as the #1 dps class. As to the current wizard vs. warlock discussions, for me it's just a phase. Are you really going to train a warlock now because you think that you will be the #1 DPS at higher levels? At my level (35), warlocks are a very rare item. I like inviting them into groups for a good balance of DPS, but i think that when a group has to make a choice between me and a warlock, i'm in.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Also, how responsive has Sony been with fixing Wizard class problems to this point?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think very responsive. But at my level, i don't think i've been as hard hit as higher level wizzies were before the fixes. There was a large outcry :smileywink: from the wizzies before i even hit 25. I posted here feeling discouragement about my class, but many people said that it was very likely that major fixes would come for wizzies before i hit 30 - and the fixes did come.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Besides, just wait until SOE tweaks wizards up or the warlocks down. Then go and read the warlock forum. :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>One last question, are there any other utility type offerings by the wizard class that make them desirable to groups besides just pure dps? Or is it pretty much just all about dps?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, I suppose that wizards are desirable in groups for "just pure dps" the same way that healers are desirable in group for "just pure" healing and so on through the classes. Every class has a major role that really dwarfs any other roles that the class may have.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry for all the questions, but I have just completley ignored this class up to this point so I'm pretty ignorant.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think that people should play the class they like. Why play something you won't enjoy? I don't want to cast disease - and warlocks having a (temporary) edge over wizards won't change that. I like wizarding and provisioning - that's it. :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV>

[Eleis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Treveur wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ImPissed wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that you cannot foresee what Sony will eventually do. But what is your gut feeling with this situation? Do you think Wizards will eventually be brought up to the same dps output of warlocks or do you think warlocks will be scaled back to the dps of wizards? Or do you think the disparity will continue?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Somewhere (and recently), <STRONG>SOE has stated that they are committed to making and keeping wizards as the #1 dps class. As to the current wizard vs. warlock discussions</STRONG>, for me it's just a phase. Are you really going to train a warlock now because you think that you will be the #1 DPS at higher levels? At my level (35), warlocks are a very rare item. I like inviting them into groups for a good balance of DPS, but i think that when a group has to make a choice between me and a warlock, i'm in.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>No, SoE never stated that. Don't pass totally wrong information and give people false hopes.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Also, how responsive has Sony been with fixing Wizard class problems to this point?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think very responsive. But at my level, i don't think i've been as hard hit as higher level wizzies were before the fixes. There was a large outcry :smileywink: from the wizzies before i even hit 25. I posted here feeling discouragement about my class, but many people said that it was very likely that major fixes would come for wizzies before i hit 30 - and the fixes did come.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Besides, just wait until SOE <STRONG>tweaks wizards up or the warlocks down</STRONG>. Then go and read the warlock forum. :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Knowing SoE, I would predict that none of those would happen. Although the second one has a *better* chance of happening (it has already happened).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>One last question, are there any other utility type offerings by the wizard class that make them desirable to groups besides just pure dps? Or is it pretty much just all about dps?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, I suppose that wizards are desirable in groups for "just pure dps" the same way that healers are desirable in group for "just pure" healing and so on through the classes. <STRONG>Every class has a major role that really dwarfs any other roles that the class may have.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>We don't "dwarf" anyone in DPS, except for healers for obvious reasons. We don't -insert verb implying superiority- anyone. Tank dwarfs us for taking damage, healers for healing, bards for buffing. Wizards have nothing that we can use to "dwarf" anyone. (except for dying maybe.)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sorry for all the questions, but I have just completley ignored this class up to this point so I'm pretty ignorant.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think that people should play the class they like. Why play something you won't enjoy? I don't want to cast disease - and warlocks having a (temporary) edge over wizards won't change that. I like wizarding and provisioning - that's it. :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I agree with that. Play what you like.</FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I like playing a wizard, but I also recognize the "problems" that we have. SoE will not up us. So we can only hope for rebalancing. Honestly, in the past 4 months my Wiz/Alchey has gone through soooo much nerfage/random changes/improvement that I personally don't care as long as some changes come along.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, for those who praise our mana feeding ability. I'm sorry but if you actually have to manafeed, then your party isn't as good as you would claim it to be. I've been in awful parties and good parties, for the latter I was never required to manafeed, even in epic encounters. Good drinks+selective use of skills+efficient tanking+efficient healing+bard or enchanter. The only case that I manafed for a good party was when there was no enchanter/bard and we were in a particularly difficult situation (long raid battles, too many adds, or some crazy bugged monster SoE put in the game)</DIV>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>To the OP:   I really don't think you gave enough information to give you sound advice.  If all we have to go on is that you feel that you a wizard at heart, then you already have your answer...anything less wouln't be true.</P> <P>If you prefer to be in the back of the group, cast spells, mainly like to just do damage then you should definitely be a mage.  </P> <P>Pros:  Yes, burst damage...wizards are very much there to serve it up...the longer the fight, the closer other classes will catch up.  And if it's too long, wizards are completely passed up.  Good thing, is that this is very rare.  Wizards are much sought after in raids.  Soloing isn't impossible, but there are several classes that do it better.  You are better off with groups for experience, loot and fun.  Out of all the mage classes, wizards have less issues grouping with another wizard.  Only mage that can evac and you get very nice spell graphics.</P> <P>Cons:  You die fast and because wizards have a reputation for being the king of dps class, if anyone surpasses that, the world ends.  If you've ever played other rpg's you know that wizards are not simply the kings of damage, they are supposed to just be the kings of burst damage.  On epic/raid encounter it's going to be a long fight, so...knowing that wizards are not known for amazing dps in long fights they occasionally play a role of power-pumps for clerics (some find this role undesireable).    If you do not have a large sized guild or do not make many friends, then LFG is going to take longer than if you had chosen a priest.  </P> <DIV>Other options of sorta-wizards, are warlocks.  Warlocks are very, very similar to wizards except they (currently) have a slight advantage in longer fights since they get a portion of their power back.  Also, currently, warlocks have a slight dps advantage (the difference is debateable, but from the parses I've seen it is always less than 5%).  Warlock disadvantage is that almost every dmg spell they use has a DoT effect so they are rendered nearly useless if another enters the picture.     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Summoners are options too, I guess.  Just like in Eq1...rely heavily on pets and are better in longer fights.  They have it the worst in that they cannot group with others of their same class because of DoTs not stacking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So there, you have my opinion.  It's not worth much, but at least I will stand behind it.  There are posts in here that literally crack me up, they are completely B.S.    </DIV><p>Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on <span class=date_text>03-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:45 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>For me and my friends, it's simple. There is no way they could take down many of the mobs they do with out me around.<BR><BR>Sure, my paladin friend can survive many hits, however, it takes him forever to kill anything. Just the other day he was in Varsoon when I logged on, clearing out quests. I went as I had some I wanted to clear too. I get there, get invite, find him, nuke the mob he is fighting, half it's health gone. He sighs, saying I spend all my time hitting the dam think to only do one bubble of damage, and you come up and bang, half it's life is gone in one nuke.<BR><BR>Just about all our spells are usefull, save a few that are out of line. Even Boreal can be useful, if used right. Power Transfers? Very useful, I can restore 290 power back to a tank or healer at level 39. Thats more then Manastone restores. And as my healer friend says, thats about half the cost of his best heal. So, I can give two heals back to a healer. Considering I can then restore even more mana to myself after a transfer, not bad I think.<BR><BR>If you game plan is to pile on DPS that only works so long as the tank can withstand whats being dished out. We offer little in the way of physical damage mitigation. Get with people that have good gear, know what they are doing, and you will be fine.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ding! Ding! Ding!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How'd you get one starred for that?! Oh i know...you described various ways to be useful other than nuking...and someone didn't like that. lol...</DIV><hr></blockquote>I'm honored to say, I have my own personal starker (star + Stalker) that looks for all my posts and one stars me! I really can't believe some one has so much free time on thier hands!

[Articulas]

dang staven, i was hoping you'd have lost him by now, ah well, /ignore it i suppose its silly kids playing on the net

[Treve]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eleison wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Treveur wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ImPissed wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that you cannot foresee what Sony will eventually do. But what is your gut feeling with this situation? Do you think Wizards will eventually be brought up to the same dps output of warlocks or do you think warlocks will be scaled back to the dps of wizards? Or do you think the disparity will continue?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Somewhere (and recently), <STRONG>SOE has stated that they are committed to making and keeping wizards as the #1 dps class. As to the current wizard vs. warlock discussions</STRONG>, for me it's just a phase. Are you really going to train a warlock now because you think that you will be the #1 DPS at higher levels? At my level (35), warlocks are a very rare item. I like inviting them into groups for a good balance of DPS, but i think that when a group has to make a choice between me and a warlock, i'm in.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>No, SoE never stated that. Don't pass totally wrong information and give people false hopes.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Also, how responsive has Sony been with fixing Wizard class problems to this point?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think very responsive. But at my level, i don't think i've been as hard hit as higher level wizzies were before the fixes. There was a large outcry :smileywink: from the wizzies before i even hit 25. I posted here feeling discouragement about my class, but many people said that it was very likely that major fixes would come for wizzies before i hit 30 - and the fixes did come.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Besides, just wait until SOE <STRONG>tweaks wizards up or the warlocks down</STRONG>. Then go and read the warlock forum. :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Knowing SoE, I would predict that none of those would happen. Although the second one has a *better* chance of happening (it has already happened).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>One last question, are there any other utility type offerings by the wizard class that make them desirable to groups besides just pure dps? Or is it pretty much just all about dps?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, I suppose that wizards are desirable in groups for "just pure dps" the same way that healers are desirable in group for "just pure" healing and so on through the classes. <STRONG>Every class has a major role that really dwarfs any other roles that the class may have.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>We don't "dwarf" anyone in DPS, except for healers for obvious reasons. We don't -insert verb implying superiority- anyone. Tank dwarfs us for taking damage, healers for healing, bards for buffing. Wizards have nothing that we can use to "dwarf" anyone. (except for dying maybe.)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sorry for all the questions, but I have just completley ignored this class up to this point so I'm pretty ignorant.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think that people should play the class they like. Why play something you won't enjoy? I don't want to cast disease - and warlocks having a (temporary) edge over wizards won't change that. I like wizarding and provisioning - that's it. :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I agree with that. Play what you like.</FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I like playing a wizard, but I also recognize the "problems" that we have. SoE will not up us. So we can only hope for rebalancing. Honestly, in the past 4 months my Wiz/Alchey has gone through soooo much nerfage/random changes/improvement that I personally don't care as long as some changes come along.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, for those who praise our mana feeding ability. I'm sorry but if you actually have to manafeed, then your party isn't as good as you would claim it to be. I've been in awful parties and good parties, for the latter I was never required to manafeed, even in epic encounters. Good drinks+selective use of skills+efficient tanking+efficient healing+bard or enchanter. The only case that I manafed for a good party was when there was no enchanter/bard and we were in a particularly difficult situation (long raid battles, too many adds, or some crazy bugged monster SoE put in the game)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>phew...bad day for you huh? you seem to think you're the total expert on every post here...but i'm sure you're not and your experiences are not any more valuable than anyone else's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and please re-read my comment about "dwarf"...you obviously didn't understand it...so see if you can make more of an effort without jumping on your keyboard with nothing positive to say</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:dang staven, i was hoping you'd have lost him by now, ah well, /ignore it i suppose its silly kids playing on the net<hr></blockquote>Oh it doesn't bother me one bit, which is why I love him so much. I enjoy the idea that some one wastes their time on me doing something that doesn't matter.At one point, I thought, hey take the rating system out. But now I think, keep it in. If someone is so petty they need to one star people thinking it blocks posts out (which it doesn't), better to keep them busy doing that then posting.

[Eleis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Treveur wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eleison wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Treveur wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ImPissed wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that you cannot foresee what Sony will eventually do. But what is your gut feeling with this situation? Do you think Wizards will eventually be brought up to the same dps output of warlocks or do you think warlocks will be scaled back to the dps of wizards? Or do you think the disparity will continue?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Somewhere (and recently), <STRONG>SOE has stated that they are committed to making and keeping wizards as the #1 dps class. As to the current wizard vs. warlock discussions</STRONG>, for me it's just a phase. Are you really going to train a warlock now because you think that you will be the #1 DPS at higher levels? At my level (35), warlocks are a very rare item. I like inviting them into groups for a good balance of DPS, but i think that when a group has to make a choice between me and a warlock, i'm in.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>No, SoE never stated that. Don't pass totally wrong information and give people false hopes.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Also, how responsive has Sony been with fixing Wizard class problems to this point?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think very responsive. But at my level, i don't think i've been as hard hit as higher level wizzies were before the fixes. There was a large outcry :smileywink: from the wizzies before i even hit 25. I posted here feeling discouragement about my class, but many people said that it was very likely that major fixes would come for wizzies before i hit 30 - and the fixes did come.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Besides, just wait until SOE <STRONG>tweaks wizards up or the warlocks down</STRONG>. Then go and read the warlock forum. :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Knowing SoE, I would predict that none of those would happen. Although the second one has a *better* chance of happening (it has already happened).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>One last question, are there any other utility type offerings by the wizard class that make them desirable to groups besides just pure dps? Or is it pretty much just all about dps?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Well, I suppose that wizards are desirable in groups for "just pure dps" the same way that healers are desirable in group for "just pure" healing and so on through the classes. <STRONG>Every class has a major role that really dwarfs any other roles that the class may have.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>We don't "dwarf" anyone in DPS, except for healers for obvious reasons. We don't -insert verb implying superiority- anyone. Tank dwarfs us for taking damage, healers for healing, bards for buffing. Wizards have nothing that we can use to "dwarf" anyone. (except for dying maybe.)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sorry for all the questions, but I have just completley ignored this class up to this point so I'm pretty ignorant.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I think that people should play the class they like. Why play something you won't enjoy? I don't want to cast disease - and warlocks having a (temporary) edge over wizards won't change that. I like wizarding and provisioning - that's it. :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I agree with that. Play what you like.</FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I like playing a wizard, but I also recognize the "problems" that we have. SoE will not up us. So we can only hope for rebalancing. Honestly, in the past 4 months my Wiz/Alchey has gone through soooo much nerfage/random changes/improvement that I personally don't care as long as some changes come along.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, for those who praise our mana feeding ability. I'm sorry but if you actually have to manafeed, then your party isn't as good as you would claim it to be. I've been in awful parties and good parties, for the latter I was never required to manafeed, even in epic encounters. Good drinks+selective use of skills+efficient tanking+efficient healing+bard or enchanter. The only case that I manafed for a good party was when there was no enchanter/bard and we were in a particularly difficult situation (long raid battles, too many adds, or some crazy bugged monster SoE put in the game)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>phew...bad day for you huh? you seem to think you're the total expert on every post here...but i'm sure you're not and your experiences are not any more valuable than anyone else's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and please re-read my comment about "dwarf"...you obviously didn't understand it...so see if you can make more of an effort without jumping on your keyboard with nothing positive to say</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No matter how you comment it, it is not a word to be used in this situation. I did not read it very well partially because it was obviously untrue. Take guardians for example, does their tanking ability "dwarf" their dps abilities? I don't think so, because a well equiped guardian (and I've seen quite a few) can do nice dps. Scouts' utility and dps are also arguable. It is my mistake to not read your entirely stupid response but try to make it sound less extreme.</P> <P><STRONG>No matter the value of my experiences compared to others, it's obviously more valuable than yours</STRONG> so please shut up and go away. Thank you. And, don't try to make a come back when you've only got a crappy one. Because everything else that I said was true (to myself), and just please, don't even bother carping because we have enough people on the forums for that already. if someone else thought my comment was bad they would've said it. I hope someone criticize me quick because I already see a few problems and I don't want to end up criticizing myself.</P> <P>Nothing positive to say? I did say I like playing a wizard. That counts positive in my book. and of course I said "<FONT color=#ff0000>I agree with that. Play what you like."  </FONT>Hopefully that's sorta positive.</P> <P>Gist of everything I've said:</P> <P>If you only got one crappy, no-one-cares-about arguement, don't even bring it up. It'll just end up like you sounding desperate.</P> <P>And no it wasn't a particularly bad day. I had a low-cal pie and it didn't taste as bad as I thought it would.<BR></P>

[Stavenh]

Here are some things about the game as I see them.While solo content is available, and I feel SoE has gone a long way to cater to those that like to solo, the game ultimately will never be more solo then group. There will never be solo epic encounters that give Mythical items as rewards.So, learn to group, learn how to find a group or make one. Be Active in the game, not passive. When you find players you work well with, try and keep working with them. TALK. Talk about your playing times, what you want to do, and even your real life. If they see you as a person, that might lead to being friends, to more grouping to more enjoyment of the game.There is nothing Sony can put in the game to make this happen. It's all up to the players.I come from Eq1, and I swore I was going to work from the begining of my toons life to find that group of other that shared the same view as me.It so worked. I seldom, meaning once a week maybe, group with people outside of them. We belong to the same guild, so when we need guild help, we get it, because we help the guild when it needs it. But for just grouping, we tend to stick to ourselves. Why? Complete trust in each other. We all know that we are all there actively playing, not AFK or watching TV. We all have learned each others playing style. We have developed strategies. We are Paladin, Templar and Wizard, looking for a good scout to become a regular. Here is something we do. For tougher named fight, the fight before, the Templar and Paladin will work HOs till they get one that gives a Heal over Time Buff to the Paladin. Which means free extra healing on the named encounter. So when the cleric calls out HoT I know to not cast spells that will effect the HO. We get the Hot, I start my HOs and then we work on Damage hots to kill quicker. This isn't so easy with complete strangers. If things don't go right, I never have to worry about someone going, Who's fault was that, we totally had that till someone screwed up! I never have to worry about someone not pulling thier weight. Plus we are funny, and have that good nature teasing banter, that makes it feel more like a real adventure. We never grind. We don't have to, we work so well together, and complete quests, that Xp is never a concern.And we never have to try and trick people into helping complete quests. If someone says, can we go here, I would like to complete a quest, we just go, knowing that tomorrow, we will work on someone elses quests. We give each other items for quests, we loan each other money.In short, we understand that people workign together will get more done, then people working alone.I really enjoy this game, and the people I have played with the last 20 levels have made it really enjoyable. It's called Everquest, and it's Multi PLAYER on line game. That's all you need to know.

[Zcenicx]

<P>I can't really say anything for the lower level wizards, since the class has been patched and revamped after I reached 30.</P> <P> </P> <P>At my level (45) I'm having very fun playing a Wizard. Make no mistake though, if you want to solo don't make a Wizzie. We suck at that. In groups however... well... we rock :smileywink:</P> <P>I have 4 main nukes. They all do more than 700 damage, and the biggest (Immolation) does around 2k. If I have my debuff dots on too of course.</P> <P>I have my 4 AE spells that work, a pure nuke, a root, a dot and a nuke with a smaller dot effect. They work, they do what's intended and they do it good.</P> <P>Beyond that I have buffs, roots, stuns, stifles, mezzes, and evac if things get too rough.</P> <P> </P> <P>My main job in a group is DPS though, and that I do well. Unfortunately I cant say anything about the supposed Warlock dps gain over us since they always seem to be just quite around me. They use less power doing their job though, and that I'm a bit ticked off over but hardly enough to say we're a bad class. Quite the opposite, I enjoy playing a Wizard immensly. </P>

[Treve]

yay for the last 2 posts!!!...i couldn't have said it better!

[Zcenicx]

<P>Some random posts about the usefulness of the wizard class makes me post once more here. I've said this all before, but it seems I must say it again.</P> <P> </P> <P>The tank is about to die. You know you're next in line if he does. Do you;</P> <P>A. Just keep going hoping to kill the mob before the tank goes down?</P> <P>B. Stifle, interrupt and stun the mob to give the healer some breathing room to get the tank up?</P> <P>C. Press Depart and go to a safe place?</P> <P>D. Peel the mob off by overnuking thus killing yourself but saving the tank?</P> <P> </P> <P>Who but a Wizard can do all above? That's the big thing with this class, we have all the choices and can do them all.</P> <P>1. Damage</P> <P>We, along with the Warlock class, dwarf everyone else in the damage amounts. The only and I mean only time I've been outdamaged by anything else is in raids. The damage output you have when you pass 39 is enormous. We also raise everyone elses damage by buffs and debuffs which would not be possible without us.</P> <P>2. Manafeeds</P> <P>Someone stated these are only useful if your group is underpowered. Obviously you've never engaged an epic mob, so get some facts to back that up.</P> <P>3. Buffs</P> <P>At my level, I can give the melee dps classes two damage procs, I can give the tank damage shields (procs damage when hit) and proc mana heals. I have debuffs for stamina and elemental resists. I can stifle an opponent in the middle of a spell. By no means easy to handle but for an experienced Wizard these spells are the difference between life and death.</P> <P>4. Utility</P> <P>We do have some emergency spells we can use if we absolutely need to. We have the in manys opinion worthless boreal/aurora which used correctly is gold. We've got evac if it's necessary. </P> <P> </P> <P>Being a Wizard requires you to know your character and know your class. It's by no means the easiest class to play - it might well be one of the hardest. You need to know what to cast and when, in what series, and at the same time worry about getting aggro. If you cant pull aggro off of a tank your level range, you're doing something wrong.</P> <P> </P>

[bot]

<P>my concerns as a wizard are not the dps between wizards/warlocks, im fine with that. its the melee's dominating the magic damage hits. since passing level 35 ive seen my dps drop below scouts and even out with tanks. now at 50 if i unload all out on a mob, i draw agro, i die. fine with me, thats the risk i take. but, why is it when i look at the top 100 lists for server and world wide rankings all i see are guardians, monks, swashbucklers, and assassins? i chose to be a wizard to dominate that list along with other mage types, not to see 15k hits being done by a guardian.</P> <P>get the melees out of magic i say. or let my dagger do MASSIVE and DEVASTATING damage that i was sold on to buy EQ2 and be a wizard.</P>

[Onion]

<DIV>Wizard to me is just a blast, i think if i was a healer, i would get bored to death.  From the times i was used as a power generator, i felt like i was going to die, same thing would be if i was a healer.  Tank might be alright, but i was not fond of tank in other RPG's that i have played.  Wizard has always been fun and i loved it in every game, and thats what i stayed with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Root, nuke, act as illusionist, act as power generator, DoT, DD, Mez, etc.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What more can you ask for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Just my opinion)</DIV>

[Apariti]

<P>I agree with you completely.  I started as a wizard in EQ1 and found they really were horrible.  Just didn't make sense to play a feeble class who died really fast if there wasn't upside to it.  If a warrior/tank can do as much damage, then what's the point of having a wizard?  Just make a bunch of warriors with a healer and you'll do more damage with a ton of hp characters.  Sure, wizards could have their fun solo chain kiting in some zones, but overall there just wasn't enough upside to account for the feebleness.</P> <P>EQ2 on the other hand has finally created a real wizard.  True, they've nerfed the heck out of roots, so it's a pain to solo, but at least in groups, you can actually outdamage all other players and  mez. </P>

[Nacoa]

<span><blockquote><hr>bot38 wrote:<p>but, why is it when i look at the top 100 lists for server and world wide rankings all i see are guardians, monks, swashbucklers, and assassins?</p><div></div><hr></blockquote> Because HOs are considered magic damage.  Credit for all of the HO's damage goes to whoever triggered or completed the HO (not sure which)</span><div></div>

[Asterra]

Actually, if you pit a Wizard against a Guardian who is spamming his skills just like Wizards must spam their nukes.. the Wizard loses.  And you get similar results against other melee classes.  In terms of balancing, the Wizard's DPS inadequacy is not just vs. that of Warlocks.  In fact, Warlocks seem to be the only ones who are currently balanced vs. other archetypes.

[ImPiss]

Thanks to everyone who has replied thus far. I have definatley gotten a lot from all of your remarks. Say hello to Nepti on Unrest, currently a L8 mage... soon to be a wizard!