WARLOCKS VS WIZARDS! The....Melodramatic truth!

[Darien al'Staff]

Ok. I've read the threads. I've looked at the numbers. I've looked at all the numbers. I've grouped with warlocks my level, below my level, and above my level...and to be honest, I think we're all hyping this up WAYYY too much. FACT: Warlocks right now do get a bit of an unfair advantage in the 30's.FICTION: There is a 'massive' tip in the powerscales. Give me a break. There was a 'massive' tip when we were being consistantly outdamaged by guardiens.FACT: Something does need to be doneFICTION: IT IS NOT A DRATIC CHANGEA *FEW* wizard spells need to have their mana cost decreased and their damage upped *A LITTLE BIT* You do realize if you were a newcommer to this board, you'd think that warlocks had the hand of god in their pocket, and wizards had it up their rears for 50 full levels. Come now...If we're going to cry, let's be realistic about the tears.Something does need to be done...but it's not a huge importance, nor would the fix change that many things.Flame me away, but hey...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Stavenh]

<P>I'm flaming you becuase when we met in Commonland Docks last night, for the first time, you didn't give me the secret wiznerd hand shake!</P> <P>Out False Wiznerd!</P>

[Asterra]

When Wizards can solo groups of level 48 mobs, or level 50^^ mobs, with the same ease that Warlocks currently manage, then I will call it even. But I have serious doubts that such accomplishments would require "minor" adjustments, since the current soloability of Wizards at level 50 hovers at three level 43 mobs, or a single level 44^^, roughly.

[Articulas]

<DIV>well if enough people complain about the subject we are all going to get nerfed to "balance" us. to me thats not an acceptable soloution.</DIV>

[Darien al'Staff]

agreed.Thus, you didn't see me calling for a nerf. Thus, the point of the post...let's not get OVERLY dramatic about this.Instead...bring it to attention, and post ideas for REASONABLE solotions that benefit both sides, or at least both sides can mostly agree on.

[Articulas]

<DIV>The only problem i see in this is SOE is proud and arrogant, they will look at other peoples idea's and rarley follow them because they dont' want people to think they are being led by the nose by their community. now they have listened, examples: House, Wizard/warlock damage. but i think we can agree that these are normally rare. SOE's track record is Nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with that said. I have seen them do something 3 or 5 months after they heard an idea. and totally act like its been intended the whole time and was their idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not flaming SOE just calling it how i've seen it, love the game, kinda like the company, but some of their tactics could use help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on this subject however i think we can all agree that a single individual should never be able to take out a double up  arrow blue, espicially at 50.  its not intended. its going to irritate the warlocks off but that probably will somehow be nerfed or the creatures will gain power, i hope the creatures gain power, i don't want to see a nerf in anyway.</DIV>

[Alfgand]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Ok. I've read the threads. I've looked at the numbers. I've looked at all the numbers. I've grouped with warlocks my level, below my level, and above my level...and to be honest, I think we're all hyping this up WAYYY too much. <BR><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No its not panic time but I think it is a little more signifcant than you might lead ppl to believe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too have been wondering how significant this difference is but I now believe it to be a bigger differential then I had thought.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note: I am not whinning and I am totally against any nerf of our brother Sorcerers the Warlocks. I simply want attention to be directed and a disparity corrected which I am sure will be done in time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was not completely sure until I saw the best evidence of the disparity. Where? Directly from mouths of Warlocks themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take a look at this post in the Warlock Section. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U><FONT color=#800080><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=4504" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=4504</A></FONT></U><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=4666" target=_blank></A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is a few comments from Warlocks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, what class can even compete once we get DD? Wizards need a second upgrade, they'll get it, but for now they are a distant competitor at least in tier 3 and 4.  Any warlock that isn't consistently seeing their green bar in combatstats at least 20-30dps ahead of the rest of the pack in that range is either </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>hmmmm. "distant competitor"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>On a lvl 42 x2 in rv i had more than double the max damage and dps of the 42 zerk 39 assasin 41 temp 40 fury in the group, and my dps was roughly 40-50 points higher than the 42 wizzard in my group. Me being on of the lowest level in the group i gained much respect hitting for almost double the wizards max hit during battle ( nil distortion adept I has a max hit of 1,515 ). For my spells , my main nukes are adept 1 and app IV .</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>I have to dissagree with the orignal post being i have out damaged lvl 40 wizards when i was level 35 after the most Patch #3, not by much but my dps was usualy 10-20 points higher on named and x2 mobs and wizard never worried about getting agro knowing i'll be the first to get agro if anything <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>As much as i like it, i do think wizards got the shaft end of the stick and should get a boost of some sort on there side. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>No matter... Wizards are gonna complain until they get there boost. I could care less as long as my spells stay as they are.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV>and from </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=4666" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=4666</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>I took Warlock to be different, which worked out well since we do quite a bit more damage than a Wizard since the patch. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I am now totally convinced that we need a further upgrade to match our brother Sorcerers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SoE has said that Wizards and Warlocks should do just about equal damage.  All I am asking is to make it so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do not Nerf Warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Alfgand on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:26 AM</span>

[SilentSam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR> <P>I'm flaming you becuase when we met in Commonland Docks last night, for the first time, you didn't give me the secret wiznerd hand shake!</P> <P>Out False Wiznerd!</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL!  :smileyvery-happy:   That had me laughing out loud at work today! </P> <P><BR>But anyway, aside from that bit of humour.   I am not a high enough warlock to really have noticed a difference between myself and the wizards I've grouped with.  </P> <P>One thing that's been talked about on the message boards for warlocks a lot is how the spells in the high 30's up to level 50 need some serious balancing issues....replacement spells doing less damage than the one they are replacing, rediculous spell timers, etc...    Perhaps why there is a discrepency in the 2 sorc classes DPS is due to the wizzy's getting hit with more 30+ spells that are disfunctional?  I have no idea if that's true but it would seem likely.  If so, hopefully when the 30+ spells get smoothed out the numbers will be similar again between the two sorcerer cousins.  If there is a discrepency it should be worked out.</P> <P>The important thing is that since the last patch the sorcerer classes are both doing some good damage and are again wanted by groups.  My personal fav is when I group with another Wiz...if I group with a warlock I find that our spells interfere with each other a lot...but when I'm with a wiz I don't have to worry about it.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Let the Nuking commence!</P> <p>Message Edited by SilentSam on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 PM</span>

[Erow]

<DIV>Bump for the Wizzy's</DIV>

[Gyml]

<DIV>I play a lv 39 Wizard and my son-in-law plays a lv 38 warlock.   Wizard has NEVER hit for 700+ (699 is my best magic hit ever),  warlock regularly hits for 900+ and occasionally for 1100+.   We both have adept 1 in our combact spells.  We both use debufs.  These are the facts, nothing but the facts.   Considering wizards and warlocks are both supposed to be similar, not the same but similar, there is definatly something wrong here.    If wizards spells are going to even out at a later date and we will start having the upper hand or at least be even, then great.  But what I am seeing so far says that warlocks have and will always be much better at damage than wizards are  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Gyml]

<DIV>one side note.   Since I now have Evac, the warlock is jelous of me, hehe.   I get to evac us out of danger when his FAR HARDER hitting spells finally aren't enough.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>seriously though, hopefully evac isn't supposed to make up for us hitting for so VERY VERY much less than warlocks.</DIV>

[Victicu]

<DIV>i agree with the original poster...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wizards are not only good at blowing things up, but also good at blowing things out of proportion.</DIV>

[Tanatus]

<DIV>We'll see hows things goes in 30s my baby warlock only lvl 27 ... but I need to mention this. I have groupped a lot with wizards of my lvl - we both sustein pretty much same DPS (~80DPS at lvl 27). Yes my Dark Distortion hit in 500s and above - wizard dont come close to that but due to faster recast as I said we have pretty much same DPS...</DIV>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darien al'Staff wrote:<BR>Ok. I've read the threads. I've looked at the numbers. I've looked at all the numbers. I've grouped with warlocks my level, below my level, and above my level...and to be honest, I think we're all hyping this up WAYYY too much. <BR><BR><BR>FACT: Warlocks right now do get a bit of an unfair advantage in the 30's.<BR>FICTION: There is a 'massive' tip in the powerscales. Give me a break. There was a 'massive' tip when we were being consistantly outdamaged by guardiens.<BR>FACT: Something does need to be done<BR>FICTION: IT IS NOT A DRATIC CHANGE<BR><BR><BR>A *FEW* wizard spells need to have their mana cost decreased and their damage upped *A LITTLE BIT* <BR>You do realize if you were a newcommer to this board, you'd think that warlocks had the hand of god in their pocket, and wizards had it up their rears for 50 full levels. Come now...If we're going to cry, let's be realistic about the tears.<BR><BR><BR>Something does need to be done...but it's not a huge importance, nor would the fix change that many things.<BR><BR><BR>Flame me away, but hey...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>FACT: Level 50 we are Comparable classes</P> <P>Fiction: Nil dstorion at level 37 Hits for 2000</P> <P>FACT:  Nil distorion has to be an adept 3 for 1100-1600</P> <P>FACT:  Adept 3 warlock > App4 Wizard</P> <DIV>The only thing I see wrong with your class is that you nee to have your Spells hitin fr wha there suppose to. Havign Ice Comit hit for 38 is just dumb.</DIV>

[Crono1321]

<span><blockquote><hr>Asterra wrote:When Wizards can solo groups of level 48 mobs, or level 50^^ mobs, with the same ease that Warlocks currently manage, then I will call it even. But I have serious doubts that such accomplishments would require "minor" adjustments, since the current soloability of Wizards at level 50 hovers at three level 43 mobs, or a single level 44^^, roughly.<hr></blockquote>Oh please do get over yourself.  You get the same AE root as warlock does.  What you do with your spell line after your grouped mobs are rooted it your problem.  I'm sure one dies outright to Ice comet, then another to immolation/bof/bofl....then you have what...1 more...that's still rooted because you killed everything else in 10seconds!  Dark distortion helps but still have to keep up ring of cold / bony grasp!</span><div></div>

[Crono1321]

And let me know what warlock has the power pool to solo a 50++? <div></div>

[Alfred75]

<span><blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:And let me know what warlock has the power pool to solo a 50++? <div></div><hr></blockquote>That must be the warlock whose name is Wizard.</span><div></div>

[Asterra]

Two Warlocks in my guild have no problems at all soloing, for example, the giants outside Sol Eye.  Do you really think you're going to be all that convincing with your attempts at derision when there must be a plethora of Warlocks out there who can do precisely what I have described? To the person who implied Warlock and Wizard soloability vs. group mobs was not appreciably dissimilar: It's a matter of DPS and power pool.  Even against the really quite risky group of three level 43s, I barely have them half dead by the time Ring of Cold wears off.  Ice Comet can kill one mob at that level as long as it is a caster, but otherwise one needs to dump another Ball of Flames+ into it.  We've gone over why AEs (apart, perhaps, from Icy Wind) are worthless, so they don't get used.  The damage output simply isn't there.  And by the end of the fight, neither is the power pool. This whole issue is going to be brought back into the limelight once the rest of the mage classes get their DPS upgrades.  Unless Wizards receive boosts sufficient to prop them up to the equals of Warlocks between now and then, Wizard inadequacy will simply be underscored by the sudden gains of the other classes.

[WaachBack]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darien al'Staff wrote:<BR>Ok. I've read the threads. I've looked at the numbers. I've looked at all the numbers. I've grouped with warlocks my level, below my level, and above my level...and to be honest, I think we're all hyping this up WAYYY too much. <BR><BR><BR>FACT: Warlocks right now do get a bit of an unfair advantage in the 30's.<BR>FICTION: There is a 'massive' tip in the powerscales. Give me a break. There was a 'massive' tip when we were being consistantly outdamaged by guardiens.<BR>FACT: Something does need to be done<BR>FICTION: IT IS NOT A DRATIC CHANGE<BR><BR><BR>A *FEW* wizard spells need to have their mana cost decreased and their damage upped *A LITTLE BIT* <BR>You do realize if you were a newcommer to this board, you'd think that warlocks had the hand of god in their pocket, and wizards had it up their rears for 50 full levels. Come now...If we're going to cry, let's be realistic about the tears.<BR><BR><BR>Something does need to be done...but it's not a huge importance, nor would the fix change that many things.<BR><BR><BR>Flame me away, but hey...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>errr....wait, do you even know what the word "fact" means? Hmm I think you might have ment "opinion".....<BR>