Intelligence: A gnome wizards cry for help

[Darien al'Staff]

For background, I am a level 32 gnome wizard.Being the crazy fool that I am, I thought that wizards should go for intelligence, at the sacrifice of all else. In addition, this fit right in with my character, so I went balls-to-the-wall for intelligenceAt level 32, I have 164 intelligence ungrouped. I have not seen any character within five levels of me even come close to this...yet....at the same time.....I get no tangable bonus. EVERY OTHER CLASS gets great bonuses for having their main stat above (x) point. Strength...Sta...Agility...Wis....Please...give us a small damage bonus...or something...anything.... Give me more reason to make insane gear choices for intelligence.

[Stavenh]

I hear you B!There is a thread on this very subject in the Gameply section, under Abilites. It's longer, well thought out and has more people, so would be a great help to the thread if you added your words there as well.And it won't hurt to have others on this forum speak up here.I feel that since the have stated numbers for strength bonus, there is no reason why they can't do the following:Let us know if there is a bonus for high intelligence for magic based damage, and if so, how does it fall, like the strength one.Or if there is no bonus for intelligence, why not? Why do other classes get bonus' on from their primary ability and mages and priests don't?

[aa]

<DIV>I stopped doing stat comparisons.  It is embarrassing.  Every other class ends up haveing better stats than us.  What bothers me most is finding a tank below my level that has 4 times the hitpoints and 50% more power.  I dont get that at all.</DIV>

[Scrubbl]

<DIV>Only thing gear does for my lvl 47 wizard is determine if I die in 2 hits or 1 hit. I've stoped bothering with INT i've been shooting for AC, HP, and Resists, in the hope I can kick it up to 3 hits before death <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Got to have goals <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Int's basically poo, I think will all my int bonuses from gear and buffs, It's enough to maybe cast 2 nukes. Items that give lots of + to power are cool tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<DIV>i'm at 159 self buffed int :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>theres still a few new drops i need like the gloves from d'morte which have i think 7 or 8 int, should get me up to 165ish, on a side note my power is just under 1750 not too shabby for a lvl 33 wiz.  and I agree int should do more than just give us power, it should if thats all they intend on doing give us MORE power per int than it currently does.</DIV>

[Stavenh]

Here is the link to the other threadhttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34729Just ignore Fialass on it.Please add to that thread your voice and ideas.It's really annoying to know that int only gives power, and on top of that, is capped at 200.

[Sliverhammer]

IMO I think it's wonderful that int has no effect on damage, and not much on power pool. It lets people enjoy playing a race they like, rather than being forced to be an Erudite because of the intelligence stat. The only people I see complaining, are the ones who thought they'd get a big advantage by having high int, and didn't pick a race, but picked a statistic.Desperate need to be better than thou.I hope it never changes.Ever.However, What I would like to see is..as mages, our powerpool be somewhat equivalent to a fighters health pool.This does not mean we should ave to strive to maximise int for it, but that it should be higher in general.

[LordDrag]

<DIV>Sliverhammer, this hurts you too.  Having a few less starting points of int makes minimal difference.  But when you add 150pts of int from gear and buffs and you get no benefit, then you get hurt. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, fighters get str bonuses, and you still see gnome fighters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other classes can boost their ability in combat with stats, how well they tank, how hard they hit, how often they hit, that kind of thing.  AND they poost their power pools.  We can only do 1 out of 2.</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Sliverhammer wrote:IMO I think it's wonderful that int has no effect on damage, and not much on power pool. It lets people enjoy playing a race they like, rather than being forced to be an Erudite because of the intelligence stat. The only people I see complaining, are the ones who thought they'd get a big advantage by having high int, and didn't pick a race, but picked a statistic.Desperate need to be better than thou.I hope it never changes.Ever.However, What I would like to see is..as mages, our powerpool be somewhat equivalent to a fighters health pool.This does not mean we should ave to strive to maximise int for it, but that it should be higher in general.<hr></blockquote>I'm human, so there goes that idea that people wanting int to work like Sony says it does are only interested because they picked a stat, not a race.Also, it's not about being better, it's about being equal in terms of how game mechanics work. If INT increasing spell damage had been in the game from the begining, perhaps our higher level spells would have done proper damage and we wouldn't have made the uproar we did.On the thread in the game ability section, a person posted screen shots of his fighter abilities with and without gear on. They do more damage with his gear on, when his stats are raised then when his gear is off. Clearly, he is getting two benefits from gear. First, it makes his abilities better, second he will recieve an over all bonus on damage when his STR reaches 150 and above. So far mages recieve no bonus' of this nature.<p>Message Edited by Stavenham on <span class=date_text>03-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:05 PM</span>

[EQIIm]

<DIV>INT does add to your power pool, but going For Power/Health on your items helps more.  And AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I pick gear based on AC and Power/health, then Resists and INT.  In that order.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Baabuu - 33 Warlock</DIV>

[FayeStoutbel]

<DIV><FONT size=2>I didn't pick my race for the int, Gnomes pwn, plain and simple.  The stat game stinks hands down.  I do favour items with nice int bonuses, even if it doesn't help that much.  I thought it made a bigger difference that power tho.  Seems I am wrong.  Maybe I will work on agi or AC so I don't go squish so much. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV>

[Admh]

<DIV>my reply goes through here...:smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34729" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34729</A></DIV>

[Sliverhammer]

Well, as far as int increasing damage goes.Whats the problem..it's not damage, at lvl45 I can't push past 180DPS without getting a mob on me, so increasing my int/damage...well that's not getting me anywhere but agro faster.Would help solo I guess.Also I was hasty in saying the prople were complaining only wanted uberl33tstatsforwin. But I think you have to look at the mechanics beyond what you are asking for.IMO damage is fine (Wiz vs War, whole other matter), powerpool is a different story, so sure.. have int reflect powerpool. And again you're right, I'm natuarally about 14 int behind an erudite at start, so it doesn't matter too much. But there will always be people who say, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] gimped, someone get me class xxx, race xxx.Int for Power please.

[Stavenh]

<DIV>You do know, INT already does effect your power pool, and as you level the amount each point gives goes up a fraction. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The subject put forth is why does a fighter, whos power pool is based in his Strength also recieve a bonus on damage from strength, and in another thread someone posted shots of fighter abilites where the damage from the ability is increased as his strength increases.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is in many many places, INT increases damage done by magical attacks. However it does not. </DIV>

[Sliverhammer]

Yes Stave, I am well aware it affects powerpool.I am greeing with you, Int should affect powerpool to the same extent that a fighter's stamina affects his health.You started talking about a figher's strength affecting his damage, to which I said " We do plenty already, increasing that in proportion to our int as well is uneccessary"Also the OP asked for a "small damage bonus..anything".I believe my post is relevant, what are you asking of me?<p>Message Edited by Sliverhammer on <span class=date_text>03-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:20 PM</span>

[Darien al'Staff]

Silver. Jsut so you know, I also play a TROLL illusionist. Racial starting stats dont' have much bearing. Erudite vs Troll is a loss of..something around 15int. That means, if there was a damage bonus at 100, 150, 200, 250 (like str) a troll caster could (pretty much) just as easily aquire it.

[Sliverhammer]

Heh, a Troll Illusionist, I like it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> probably the race that would make the greatest effort to look like something else.And I'm not suggesting that you wouldn't get your hypothetical damage bonus as a troll or an Ogre or whatever.We don't NEED a damage bonus...we are allready pulling agro with what we have.180DPS threshhold... i'm holding back on damage already because otherwise I get smacked in the face.ok..very clearly.IMO we don't need more damage (see reason above)IMO I think we need more power (comparable with a fighters HP)

[Stavenh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sliverhammer wrote:<BR>We don't NEED a damage bonus...we are allready pulling agro with what we have.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm not pulling aggro.</DIV>

[Darien al'Staff]

It makes it all the more fun though! I can pretty much (if desired) pull agro from any tank (pally, guardien, whatnot) within 4 levels of me. Makes me giggle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But I can also (pretty much) control it. Even so, our DPS output is STILL not compairable to our weakness in battle.I don't mind dying in one or two hits. I'm a wizard...it's what we do. But I want SO MUCH serious damage output, that I make up for it. I don't want to be grouped because I'm a mana-battery anymore. I want to be grouped because I can feed others mana WHILE putting out over half the groups dps.I'm not asking for a huge damage bonus. Maybe 10 percent at 150, 200, 250, 300, and 350. Comparitivly, that's not that much. Or maybe even 5 percent, who knows. SOMETHINGand I DEFINATLY think we should have higher power pools. Looking at tanks who easily have almost as much power (1667 at level 32) and 3-4k health is rediculous.Oh, and just for background...The troll illusionist? He speaks with a propper English accent and is named "Livingston Vandersnuff III". His mez is "Woah! Slow down their chaps....sit down and have some tea and crumpits, would you?" I have a riot playing him.

[Stavenh]

As for power pools, we don't see a cap on Fighters Health, why is there one on power? How is that balanced?

[Tyrant Invict]

<P>I guess I'm pretty much in the minority but I think if a mage, a scout, a priest, and a fighter have the same number for INT, AGI, WIS, and STR respectively, have the same base power bestowed by their equipment, and are the same level, they should have the same amount of total power.  </P> <P>Who care's if our power is similar to a fighers?  Is the fighter doing 1300+ dmg with the same amount of power it takes me to cast Immolation?  <STRONG>Not.....even.....close.</STRONG>  These things are not comparable.  The fighter can have all the power in the world, but if I'm still doing two to three times the damage of the rest of the group combined, what do I care?</P> <P> </P> <P>That aside, and getting back on with the original point of this thread, increased intelligence should most definetely increase the damage our spells do.  Why wouldn't it?</P> <P>Increased wisdom should make a priest's heals more effective, and increased agility should increase a scout's damage.</P> <P>Incidentally, who says it doesn't?  Has anyone parsed it, because I would have sworn I read somewhere from an official source that increased INT <STRONG>does</STRONG> in fact increase damage.  Your spells have a range of the damage they do.  Does not INT increase the liklihood of hitting in the upper end of that range as opposed to the lower end?</P> <P> </P>

[Darien al'Staff]

Yes. It has been parsed.For every 1 post you find saying ti does, you'll find 9 more (with proof) that it doesn't. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Arkanj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sliverhammer wrote:<BR>Heh, a Troll Illusionist, I like it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> probably the race that would make the greatest effort to look like something else.<BR><BR>And I'm not suggesting that you wouldn't get your hypothetical damage bonus as a troll or an Ogre or whatever.<BR><BR><BR>We don't NEED a damage bonus...we are allready pulling agro with what we have.<BR><BR>180DPS threshhold... i'm holding back on damage already because otherwise I get smacked in the face.<BR><BR><BR>ok..<BR><BR>very clearly.<BR><BR>IMO we don't need more damage (see reason above)<BR>IMO I think we need more power (comparable with a fighters HP)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If we don't NEED a damage bonus, then why upgrade your spells past apprentice 1?  Your argument seems to be something like "If you give us the ability to do more damage, we'll just die more!" which is an argument that a good few people put forward before the Sorcerer buff patch.</P> <P>Sure that's true.  If you're pumping out damage like a madman.</P> <P>Just because you have the capability to do more damage than you should does NOT mean that you always will.  What it DOES mean is that, in a pinch, you'll be better able to perform your duty (of damage dealer OR mana pumper).  What do I mean?</P> <P>If you have the ability to do, say, 15% more DPS than you do using the same spells that you currently use, you will NOT always pump out maximum DPS.  BUT if a fight gets hairy, there's an added 15% more damage that you can throw into the situation.  Also you need to take into account that if your spells allowed you to do 15% more DPS, it relieves the stress on both your power pool AND your spell casting activities.  If you can cast slower to achieve the same effect, you are not "tied up" in nuking as much (either mid-cast or recovering) and thus you have more time and power to perform other duties, such as emergency-mezzing adds, pumping power to healers, or feeding mana back to yourself.</P> <P>It's a win-win situation... and I don't see why INT has no bearing whatsoever on the damage/effectiveness of a caster's magical arsenal.  Makes no sense.<BR></P>