Mana Feeds

[LordDrag]

<DIV>While having the ability to feed someone mana in an emergency is nice, it all too often results in us being mana batteries for healers on raids and such.  I suggest a simple change to the spells in order to somewhat rectify this problem without stripping us of the utility.  Up the power transferred quite a bit, maybe make it a regen over time or something in addition to the initial hit of power, but also majorly increase the recast.  Perhaps a 5 minute recast on each, which gives a dose of power and a power regen after for a minute or so.  This will allow us to still transfer mana in an emergency, without it becoming our primary role.</DIV><p>Message Edited by LordDragon on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 PM</span>

[Manohate]

<DIV> <DIV>Wow, that's not a bad idea, a power-regen so we can still contribute to the damage.  We have the "replace power when hit" spell(Accord I think), but healers usually aren't getting hit and their power is the most important in the fight.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While fighting the Ancient Watcher in the catacombs, I went into twitch mode on the healers.   We would have wiped had I not.  It was during that fight I realized my job in groups was probably going to change.  This is an awesome ability, but I made a wizzie to nuke, not twitch.  Still wondering if I should have gone Warlock.</DIV></DIV>

[adamflanagan]

<DIV>accord has only got a 5% chace to proc, i use it all the time (level 31) and have only seen it go off once</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>while power regen would be nice isnt that the illusionists secondary function?</DIV>

[LordDrag]

<DIV>Exactly.  We are there to blow things up, not feed mana.  Mana feeds should be an emergency spell, not something you spend all your time doing on raids.  And as for Warlock DPS, they said about a hundred times during beta that warlocks and wizards should do the same dps, just in different elements and maybe slightly different ways.  They are not supposed to be higher DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not to mention that warlocks can drain power from enemies and feed it to the party, without sacrificing their own mana or the ability to do damage.  For the love of god Sony, don't make us mana batteries.  Do SOMETHING to the surge of flames and intromission spells to prevent it.</DIV><p>Message Edited by LordDragon on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[LordDrag]

<DIV>Adam, my main concern is simply that on raids we often become mana batteries.  We almost never nuke, just stand there feeding the healer power.  Its boring and not what the class was meant for.</DIV>

[Manohate]

<DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong.  I'm not asking for the Illusionist's job.  I don't want it, but it has come to be expected of me because the ability is there.  I DON'T want to spend the fight twitching, but that's what it has come to.  I would gladly give up my twitch ability for heavier nukes in a second.</DIV></DIV>

[LordDrag]

<DIV>Exactly.  I think the idea originally was to allow us to strategically give mana when needed.  Of course it has become such that there is no strategy, just stand there feeding.  Which is why I thought giving the spells a big cast time for a short but dramatic effect would bring it back in line to what both we and Sony want.  I mean we are supposed to be one of the best if not the best DPS classes in the game, and we stand there feeding mana.</DIV>

[adamflanagan]

<DIV>as im only 31 i havent got any mana transfer spells yet. i cant wait til my guild starts raiding reguarly but when that time comes i do not want to be there as a mana battery. i signed up to be a wizard to do huge amouts of damage. i really hope this is sorted soon, but from what ive read there are more pressing issues to be delt with first.</DIV>

[gnomeat]

<DIV>Although I understand the position of the origonal poster, I guess I look at it from a diffrent angle.  I think the ability to feed mana is a big plus since it adds utility to our class.  There are several... actually a lot of times that me feeding healers in my group power has saved us from a wipe.. or a retreat at the very least.  Perhaps my prespective is skewed since I haven't been a hardcore raider in eq2 yet, I have just been a causual grouper/soloer.. but I was a hardcore raiding necro in EQ1 and I definitley hated playing mana battery... but in eq2 the times I have had to play that role as a wiz have been few and far between.... I definitley don't cast this line unless there are extreme circumstances that require me to do such...  If in raiding situations I get stuck with the "manabitch" tag again I simply won't be a hardcore eq2 raider</DIV>

[gnomeat]

<DIV>After thinking a bit though.. this poster is definitley on to something... make our feed line so that it provides a much larger amount of power, at the expense of a muhc longer cast time...  that is actually a really good idea...  there is nothing worse than it was in eq1 where our mana feeds would heal like 200 or so power and we would have to twitch clerics till all 8k of their mana was full</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[LordDrag]

<DIV>I assume you were a necro in EQ1 gnomeater<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Don't remember my wizard every having a power feed in that game, heh.</DIV>

[Sanse]

<DIV>I can totally understand the concerns expressed here re: Wizard's ally power boost spells, especially with regards to Epic encounters.</DIV> <DIV>I too have found myself reverting to a healer's mana boosting role in very big encounters. </DIV> <DIV>However, whilst this has been of strategic concern for me in certain situations, I think it's important to remember that it's only in <EM>certain situations </EM>that this becomes an issue. And in most cases, it has been in long drawn out encounters (most notably x2 raid mobs with 1 group).</DIV> <DIV>As a lvl 41 wizard with Immolation Adept III, it is always my aim, aggro permitting, to get one of these in when I can. And I have found the long drawn out battles to be quite tense affairs, balancing the power needs of the healer with the need to Immolate the foe.</DIV> <DIV>Perhaps your concerns about the power regen roles of your wizard only become really relevant when x2 mobs are engaged with a single group and therefore when you are pushing your capabilities as a group to the limit (and beyond).</DIV> <DIV>Important to remember too I think, that whilst a wizard's power regen role only becomes really essential in the big epic encounters, without which, success may prove elusive, most well matched encounters don't require any extra power boosting.</DIV> <DIV>Perhaps we should look at our Intromissions and Surge of Flames as more of a 'thank god we've got them for when we need them' situation.</DIV> <DIV>I find this quite an exciting dynamic; on the one side the knowledge that nothing's gonna hurt them like a wizard can, and on the other, an awareness that if the healer loses mana, he/she is gonna need boosting if we're to stay alive.</DIV> <DIV>Surely, this is a dynamic that should remain, and I have never found myself resenting this ability. Maybe the spells could do with being revised slightly. A power over time buff sounds very nice, although other classes have this ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still think power boosting applies mainly to epic encounters/raids, and to this end, maybe as much thought should be applied to the composition of the group(s), than to the irritation a Wizard feels not being able to nuke because he needs to keep his group alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sanseer</DIV>

[Sanse]

<DIV> <DIV>I can totally understand the concerns expressed here re: Wizard's ally power boost spells, especially with regards to Epic encounters.</DIV> <DIV>I too have found myself reverting to a healer's mana boosting role in very big encounters. </DIV> <DIV>However, whilst this has been of strategic concern for me in certain situations, I think it's important to remember that it's only in <EM>certain situations </EM>that this becomes an issue. And in most cases, it has been in long drawn out encounters (most notably x2 raid mobs with 1 group).</DIV> <DIV>As a lvl 41 wizard with Immolation Adept III, it is always my aim, aggro permitting, to get one of these in when I can. And I have found the long drawn out battles to be quite tense affairs, balancing the power needs of the healer with the need to Immolate the foe.</DIV> <DIV>Perhaps your concerns about the power regen roles of your wizard only become really relevant when x2 mobs are engaged with a single group and therefore when you are pushing your capabilities as a group to the limit (and beyond).</DIV> <DIV>Important to remember too I think, that whilst a wizard's power regen role only becomes really essential in the big epic encounters, without which, success may prove elusive, most well matched encounters don't require any extra power boosting.</DIV> <DIV>Perhaps we should look at our Intromissions and Surge of Flames as more of a 'thank god we've got them for when we need them' situation.</DIV> <DIV>I find this quite an exciting dynamic; on the one side the knowledge that nothing's gonna hurt them like a wizard can, and on the other, an awareness that if the healer loses mana, he/she is gonna need boosting if we're to stay alive.</DIV> <DIV>Surely, this is a dynamic that should remain, and I have never found myself resenting this ability. Maybe the spells could do with being revised slightly. A power over time buff sounds very nice, although other classes have this ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still think power boosting applies mainly to epic encounters/raids, and to this end, maybe as much thought should be applied to the composition of the group(s), than to the irritation a Wizard feels not being able to nuke because he needs to keep his group alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sanseer</DIV></DIV>

[Sanse]

<DIV>Sorry about the double (now triple) post.</DIV> <DIV>Issues too boring and annoying to repeat.</DIV> <DIV>Schoolboy error.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sanseer</DIV>

[Manohate]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Perhaps your concerns about the power regen roles of your wizard only become really relevant when x2 mobs are engaged with a single group and therefore when you are pushing your capabilities as a group to the limit (and beyond)."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are absoultely correct on this in my case.  The reason I go into twitch mode is the fact I can't land anything on the x2 mob so I try to make my power useful by supplying healers with power.  I would much rather be able to use my power to burn the mob down faster, but since nothing will land on him, that isn't an option.  Now the arguement has been made that the x2 mob is supposed to be resistant.  What if the mob was resistant to melee damage?  Where are we then?  If the melee classes can land on the mob with their specialties, then why can't casters land with theirs?  I just want to be able to contribute to the decrease in mob HP so I'm not limited to increasing healer power pools.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good thread guys...I like it.</DIV></DIV>

[Nibiuno]

Let me demonstrate what happens on raids when you'll be power feeding, since the majority of the posters here are armchair generals.Rognog the Angler Fight (CoD Epic) 18:45 fight with the #s we had.First off, my stats:50 Wizard79,393 Damage, 70.57 DPSCalypsi50 Warlock155,143 Damage, 140.02 DPSThat is what happens when a wizard is having to pump, canni, nuke, pump, repeat. When I wasn't pumping mana, my damage was nearly equal to Calypsi's. DPS is cut in HALF. So the people saying it's not a big issue are dead wrong.

[Manohate]

<DIV>Wow!  That's a dramatic difference.  Maybe I <U>should</U> have gone Warlock...</DIV>

[Victicu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nibiuno wrote:<BR>Let me demonstrate what happens on raids when you'll be power feeding, since the majority of the posters here are armchair generals.<BR><BR>Rognog the Angler Fight (CoD Epic) 18:45 fight with the #s we had.<BR><BR>First off, my stats:<BR>50 Wizard<BR>79,393 Damage, 70.57 DPS<BR><BR>Calypsi<BR>50 Warlock<BR>155,143 Damage, 140.02 DPS<BR><BR>That is what happens when a wizard is having to pump, canni, nuke, pump, repeat. When I wasn't pumping mana, my damage was nearly equal to Calypsi's. DPS is cut in HALF. So the people saying it's not a big issue are dead wrong.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>hmm warlocks have power transfer spells too... i'm assuming Calypsi wasnt pumping mana??  If she was also transfering power you should clarify that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my spell order is pretty much the same as yours when im in power transfer mode...debuff, debuff, nuke, pump, repeat...is pretty close to what i do on raids, somtimes i try to get in 2 nukes between pumps.  One nuke per cycle may make you feel like your not doing much, but im contributing much more to the raid than simple DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in an epic raid i'd rather have a wiz/warlock who can help keep healers up in power AND do 70dps than a single person who is doing 140DPS only.</DIV>

[Nibiuno]

He was using his mana feed that has a refresh of 17 seconds and doesnt stun him =/

[Arkanj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nibiuno wrote:<BR>He was using his mana feed that has a refresh of 17 seconds and doesnt stun him =/<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Prolly takes forever to cast tho... if not, that needs to be balanced.</P> <P>Quite honestly I never feel like I'm forced to be a "mana feeder" in most situations.  This may be because my guild has an illusionist and a coercer at nearly each and every raid (they both play a lot) and thus, power doesn't tend to be a problem.  Usually on raids (as far as sorcerers are concerned) there's me and a 50 Warlock.  Generally I outdamage him (may be a result of having adept 3 for 9 of my 40+ spells) in raid situations.  We both pump mana, but not continuously.  We run it like this: if people feel they need a mana pump, they call it out in Teamspeak and we both hit them.  Healers get first priority, main tank gets second, everyone else has to fend for themselves.</P> <P>In fact I can say that there's only been one occasion during which I felt like my primary role was that of a "mana pump" and that was fighting the Group x3 mob in OOLS for the first time.  I spent literally all of my time harvesting and pumping healers.  I would rather have been nuking, sure, but I can't say I didn't feel very important or necessary during that raid.  In fact, I can guess (pretty accurately) that if I wasn't on that raid, it probably would have failed.</P> <P>I consider the mana pumping spells emergency utility spells, just like the rest of our utility spells.  It's not the BEST thing for us to be doing but, in a pinch, it helps out.  A lot.  The main complaint I have is on the stun time... 10-12 seconds on the Harvest line is stupid enough to where I won't use it unless I have absolutely no other choice.  I use Rath'Adran's as my main mana pump (6 second stun is more appropriate) and Intromission in a bind (Adept 3 Intromission is pretty good... but the cast time is too long).</P> <P>So I'd say:</P> <P>Make the cast time on Intromission shorter, with the recast longer; make the stun on the Harvest line half of what it is now; make the stun on the Fiery Surge line 3/4 what it is now (and leave Rath'Adran's since it's a training thing).</P>

[Renynz]

Another solution would be to radically improve the mana feed spells, and give them a proportinally longer timer. Say, for example, improve the effectiveness by 300% and increase the recast timer to 45 seconds, or 400% and 60 seconds. Then while you may be able to supply emergency mana, you would not have to do it as often.

[Arkanj]

<blockquote><hr>Renynzea wrote:Another solution would be to radically improve the mana feed spells, and give them a proportinally longer timer. Say, for example, improve the effectiveness by 300% and increase the recast timer to 45 seconds, or 400% and 60 seconds. Then while you may be able to supply emergency mana, you would not have to do it as often.<hr></blockquote>I wholeheartedly support this idea.

[LordDrag]

<DIV>Another solution would be to radically improve the mana feed spells, and give them a proportinally longer timer. Say, for example, improve the effectiveness by 300% and increase the recast timer to 45 seconds, or 400% and 60 seconds. Then while you may be able to supply emergency mana, you would not have to do it as often.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Exactly what I suggested<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Hell, make it 5 minutes even, give it a more strategic use.</DIV>